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havelj
02-09-2005, 12:24 PM
To Tigers for prospects per Bruuuuuce Levine.

MUsoxfan
02-09-2005, 12:27 PM
Well that cancels out any positive influence Ma$$s would have had on the Tigers. Let's see how their message board is crowing now!

chaz171
02-09-2005, 12:29 PM
To Tigers for prospects per Bruuuuuce Levine.

ARe you refering to AL Levine?

SOXintheBURGH
02-09-2005, 12:30 PM
Cancel the season and head straight to the playoffs, the Tigers win the AL Central...

Never even heard of Levine, is he any good?

Tekijawa
02-09-2005, 12:32 PM
I saw a "help wanted" sign at Tai's tap yesterday... this explains it! Anyone have any bartending experience?

Baby Fisk
02-09-2005, 12:33 PM
Alas, Kyle Farnsworth, we hardly knew ye...

...Kyle Farnsworth, welcome to the AL Central Division!

Ah memories. Everyone remember this magical night in Farnsworth Implosion History? (http://www.progressiveboink.com/archive/wrigley.htm)

SOXintheBURGH
02-09-2005, 12:34 PM
Alas, Kyle Farnsworth, we hardly knew ye...

...Kyle Farnsworth, welcome to the AL Central Division!

Ah memories. Everyone remember this magical night in Farnsworth Implosion History? (http://www.progressiveboink.com/archive/wrigley.htm)

LOL... Legendary!

FightingBillini
02-09-2005, 12:38 PM
Cancel the season and head straight to the playoffs, the Tigers win the AL Central...

Never even heard of Levine, is he any good?

Um, no. By "per", he means the story came from Chicago "Baseball Insider" Bruce Levine.

FightingBillini
02-09-2005, 12:39 PM
Alas, Kyle Farnsworth, we hardly knew ye...

...Kyle Farnsworth, welcome to the AL Central Division!

Ah memories. Everyone remember this magical night in Farnsworth Implosion History? (http://www.progressiveboink.com/archive/wrigley.htm)

Is that even remotely true?

MUsoxfan
02-09-2005, 12:40 PM
Is that even remotely true?

It appears only the photos and not the captions. Although, I must admit that they had me going with the "dead" lady until near the end of the story.

Great photos though

MIgrenade
02-09-2005, 12:41 PM
Confirmed by the Score.

Baby Fisk
02-09-2005, 12:43 PM
Is that even remotely true?
No, it's satire.

Unregistered
02-09-2005, 12:44 PM
Is that even remotely true? Yeah, dude. 100%. Farnsworth was IM'ing on his cell phone in an elimination game of the NLCS. :?:

HebrewHammer
02-09-2005, 01:05 PM
So, if the goal is to get rid of all their headcases, when is Dusty Baker getting dealt?

JoseCanseco6969
02-09-2005, 01:10 PM
So, if the goal is to get rid of all their headcases, when is Dusty Baker getting dealt?

I heard from ChiSoxTony that he will be traded for Oil Can Boyd and a PTBNL.

Clement's beard
02-09-2005, 01:53 PM
It's no secret that Hendry has his sights on Octavio Dotel from the A's. From what Levine is saying, the cubs are going to go hard after him and probably ship some of the 5 prospects they have picked up in the Sosa and Farnsworth deal to Oakland. If they turn Sosa and Farnsworth into Dotel, Hairston and Burnitz, they have done well.

Flight #24
02-09-2005, 01:55 PM
It's no secret that Hendry has his sights on Octavio Dotel from the A's. From what Levine is saying, the cubs are going to go hard after him and probably ship some of the 5 prospects they have picked up in the Sosa and Farnsworth deal to Oakland. If they turn Sosa and Farnsworth into Dotel, Hairston and Burnitz, they have done well.

:smokin:

C'mon man, share!

DaveIsHere
02-09-2005, 01:59 PM
Mon, why do I do this to myself and lurk on the MLB boards. The Detroit board is touting that they have surpassed the Twins as having the best bullpen in the Central.:?:


I think it is funny that not one of the pathetic teams in the Central have any repect for the Sox

Clement's beard
02-09-2005, 01:59 PM
:smokin:

C'mon man, share!

Farnsworth is a bum, Sosa is a cancer. I just went to cubs.com to get the specifics on the players involved and here it is.


http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/chc/news/chc_press_release.jsp?ymd=20050209&content_id=941062&vkey=pr_chc&fext=.jsp

If they turn around and get Dotel, it's a good move.

Jabroni
02-09-2005, 02:08 PM
Farnsworth is a bum, Sosa is a cancer. I just went to cubs.com to get the specifics on the players involved and here it is.


http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/chc/news/chc_press_release.jsp?ymd=20050209&content_id=941062&vkey=pr_chc&fext=.jsp

If they turn around and get Dotel, it's a good move.Yeah, Farnsworth is consistently inconsistent but who do the Flubs have left in their bullpen now? Even if they now make a move for Dotel their pen is still weak. They may have to sign Jesse Orosco for chripe's sakes. :tongue:

HebrewHammer
02-09-2005, 02:18 PM
It's no secret that Hendry has his sights on Octavio Dotel from the A's. From what Levine is saying, the cubs are going to go hard after him and probably ship some of the 5 prospects they have picked up in the Sosa and Farnsworth deal to Oakland. If they turn Sosa and Farnsworth into Dotel, Hairston and Burnitz, they have done well.

I honestly don't see them getting Dotel for these chumps. None of them seem like Beane type guys, in fact most of them aren't really even prospects. I think both these moves have been salary dumps and cancer removal, pure and simple. This deal was made to get rid of a headcase and free up money for a deadline deal, pure and simple.

Clement's beard
02-09-2005, 02:21 PM
Yeah, Farnsworth is consistently inconsistent but who do the Flubs have left in their bullpen now? Even if they now make a move for Dotel their pen is still weak. They may have to sign Jesse Orosco for chripe's sakes. :tongue:


R. Dempster throws in the mid 90's and pitched well last year after surgery.
S. Williamson could be a closer on most teams. If he comes back by July, that's a huge signing for them.
Hawkins is a 8th inning guy and if he is used there he is good.
Dotel(assuming the cubs trade for him) is nasty. High 90's fastball and good off speed stuff.


Farnsworth is just a headcase and I would say the cubs did well to get 3 young players for him considering his ERA is well over 4 for his career.

maurice
02-09-2005, 02:31 PM
And the salary dump continues. I guess the Trib finally realized that most cub "fans" don't care (or even know) whether their team wins or loses.

rdivaldi
02-09-2005, 02:41 PM
R. Dempster throws in the mid 90's and pitched well last year after surgery.
S. Williamson could be a closer on most teams. If he comes back by July, that's a huge signing for them.
Hawkins is a 8th inning guy and if he is used there he is good.
Dotel(assuming the cubs trade for him) is nasty. High 90's fastball and good off speed stuff.


Farnsworth is just a headcase and I would say the cubs did well to get 3 young players for him considering his ERA is well over 4 for his career.

:smokin: Whew, it's getting smokey in here.

Who cares how fast these clowns throw none of them can close games. Dempster is a mediocre pitcher at best, Williamson hasn't been healthy in 3 years, while Dotel and Hawkins both crumble in the 9th inning.

Hendry got 3 non prospects from what is one of the absolute worst farm systems in baseball. Granted Farnsworth isn't worth much, but this trade yielded basically nothing. There very little to spin positive from this move except that Farnsworth is finally out of your hair.

HebrewHammer
02-09-2005, 02:42 PM
R. Dempster throws in the mid 90's and pitched well last year after surgery.
S. Williamson could be a closer on most teams. If he comes back by July, that's a huge signing for them.
Hawkins is a 8th inning guy and if he is used there he is good.
Dotel(assuming the cubs trade for him) is nasty. High 90's fastball and good off speed stuff.


Okay, Dempster may throw hard, but is there anything in his history that would indicate he can close? He was a mediocre starter and he'll make a mediocre reliever.

Williamson can close for most teams can he? Seeing how he hasn't thrown in months that would be difficult, his signing is a move for '06, I wouldn't count on him for anything more than a September audition.

Hawkins, okay fine, he may be a great 8th inning guy, but that's not how he's been used and he's been poor as a closer. IMO, he's just as big of a headcase as Farnsworth.

Dotel, well as soon as the ScRubs aquire Dotel, we'll talk about him. Last I heard the ScRubs we're going to have an OF of Patterson, Beltran and Ordonez, how well did that turn out?

rdivaldi
02-09-2005, 02:46 PM
Okay, Dempster may throw hard, but is there anything in his history that would indicate he can close? He was a mediocre starter and he'll make a mediocre reliever.

To say Dempster was a "mediocre" starter is a stretch. He was downright awful for the past couple of years in Cincy.

SOXintheBURGH
02-09-2005, 02:48 PM
I still wouldn't pick the Tigers to win the California Penal League.

Jabroni
02-09-2005, 02:54 PM
R. Dempster throws in the mid 90's and pitched well last year after surgery.
S. Williamson could be a closer on most teams. If he comes back by July, that's a huge signing for them.
Hawkins is a 8th inning guy and if he is used there he is good.
Dotel(assuming the cubs trade for him) is nasty. High 90's fastball and good off speed stuff.


Farnsworth is just a headcase and I would say the cubs did well to get 3 young players for him considering his ERA is well over 4 for his career.Dempster is nothing special. He often times can't find the plate just like Farnsworth.

Scott Williamson just had his second Tommy John surgery in October and the doctor said it looked like a hand grenade went off in his arm. He probably won't even be ready for this season. Remember, it takes around a year and a half for pitchers to fully recover from Tommy John surgery and Williamson is on his second.

Agreed. Hawkins as a good 8th inning guy but sucks as a closer.

Dotel is nasty when he can find the plate. Often times he cannot.

The prospects the Flubs got for Farnsworth are nothing special but you can't really expect to get much for a headcase drunk like "The Farns" anyways.

Clement's beard
02-09-2005, 02:54 PM
I still wouldn't pick the Tigers to win the California Penal League.

LMAO! They can hit, but they can't pitch.

Flight #24
02-09-2005, 02:55 PM
R. Dempster throws in the mid 90's and pitched well last year after surgery.


Ummm...in the past 3 years, his first inning stats include opponents batting .307 with a .390OBP off of him (.861OPS). Exactly what you need form your closer.

People who think he'd make a good reliever are generally relying on last year's whopping 20 IP and disregarding what he's done over a career where you're kind if you call it "mediocre"

Baby Fisk
02-09-2005, 02:59 PM
This deal was made to get rid of a headcase and free up money for a deadline deal, pure and simple.
Agreed. It's addition by subtraction for the Cubs. One less thing for them to be mocked about. :cool:

Clement's beard
02-09-2005, 03:02 PM
Ummm...in the past 3 years, his first inning stats include opponents batting .307 with a .390OBP off of him (.861OPS). Exactly what you need form your closer.

People who think he'd make a good reliever are generally relying on last year's whopping 20 IP and disregarding what he's done over a career where you're kind if you call it "mediocre"

I didn't realize we were talking about Dempster winning a starting job for the cubs. He pitched well in relief, albeit in a small sample size. If you think Farnsworth for 3 young players is not a good deal, when Hendry will most likely use some of these guys to fleece a small market team like he has in the past, then we will agree to disagree.

D. TODD
02-09-2005, 03:03 PM
Just like the C. Lee trade, these moves by the scrubs can not be judged until Henry is done spending the saved money. I hope he does not spend it at all, but I could almost assure you they will be bringing in bullpen help probably a closer for them. Being a Cub hater I DO NOT want to see Dotel go there, Jorge Julio I wouldn't mind seeing and his name was still high on the scrubs list after the Sosa deal.

Baby Fisk
02-09-2005, 03:08 PM
Just like the C. Lee trade, these moves by the scrubs can not be judged until Henry is done spending the saved money. I hope he does not spend it at all, but I could almost assure you they will be bringing in bullpen help probably a closer for them. Being a Cub hater I DO NOT want to see Dotel go there, Jorge Julio I wouldn't mind seeing and his name was still high on the scrubs list after the Sosa deal.
Agreed again. Just like the C.Lee trade, this move is phase one of a two- or more-phases deal by Hendry. A lot of people griped about the C.Lee trade at first, but that ultimately worked out quite well.

Flight #24
02-09-2005, 03:08 PM
I didn't realize we were talking about Dempster winning a starting job for the cubs. He pitched well in relief, albeit in a small sample size. If you think Farnsworth for 3 young players is not a good deal, when Hendry will most likely use some of these guys to fleece a small market team like he has in the past, then we will agree to disagree.

The point is that there is little to no evidence that Dempster will make anything more than a mediocre reliever. 20IP = useless sample size.

You yourself admit that if Hendry can turn the prospects into a decent player it's "fleecing", which itself means that they are worth next to nothing (which coincides with the evaluations on those players from rotoworld that I posted in another thread). Therefore Hendry traded Farnsworth for next to nothing with his only current replacement being a guy who's never really filled a relief role, and who's only other pitching stints have been mediocre at best.

If you consider that to be a good move, more power to you. If KW made a move like that, I'd be pissed.

JKryl
02-09-2005, 03:08 PM
And the salary dump continues. I guess the Trib finally realized that most cub "fans" don't care (or even know) whether their team wins or loses.

While they're still paying 12 or 13 million a year for Scammie, they have to cut where they can. :wink:

Clement's beard
02-09-2005, 03:13 PM
The point is that there is little to no evidence that Dempster will make anything more than a mediocre reliever. 20IP = useless sample size.

You yourself admit that if Hendry can turn the prospects into a decent player it's "fleecing", which itself means that they are worth next to nothing (which coincides with the evaluations on those players from rotoworld that I posted in another thread). Therefore Hendry traded Farnsworth for next to nothing with his only current replacement being a guy who's never really filled a relief role, and who's only other pitching stints have been mediocre at best.

If you consider that to be a good move, more power to you. If KW made a move like that, I'd be pissed.

When I say fleecing I mean that Farnsworth will have turned into Dotel because Hendry will rob a small market team who is just looking to rebuild by trading prospects to them. Oakland??

FightingBillini
02-09-2005, 03:16 PM
Yeah, dude. 100%. Farnsworth was IM'ing on his cell phone in an elimination game of the NLCS. :?:

After reading the rest of it, I see its fake. I just looked over the first one and thought, "hey, he is enough of a moron to do something like that". I didnt think it was entirely true, but I thought it may have been based on some facts.

HebrewHammer
02-09-2005, 03:16 PM
When I say fleecing I mean that Farnsworth will have turned into Dotel because Hendry will rob a small market team who is just looking to rebuild by trading prospects to them. Oakland??

You think Beane is going to rollover for Hendry like Pittsburgh did?

Here you go buddy

:bong:

rdivaldi
02-09-2005, 03:17 PM
When I say fleecing I mean that Farnsworth will have turned into Dotel because Hendry will rob a small market team who is just looking to rebuild by trading prospects to them. Oakland??

Good luck "fleecing" Oakland. I may dislike Billy Beane, but the guy rarely gets "fleeced".

Man, the Cubbie Crack is being smoked in high volume today...

Flight #24
02-09-2005, 03:21 PM
When I say fleecing I mean that Farnsworth will have turned into Dotel because Hendry will rob a small market team who is just looking to rebuild by trading prospects to them. Oakland??

I'm not a FOBB, and even I don't think you're likely to "fleece" Beane. Regardless, it's OK to make a bad trade (i.e. get close to nothing) because you can fleece someone else? Wouldn't you rather just make a good trade and THEN fleece someone else?:?:

As I said - if KW had made a trade like this, he'd be getting roasted. And for the record: if you like LaTroy Hawkins as a closer, you'll love Octavio Dotel.....

maurice
02-09-2005, 03:22 PM
I see that cub fans are still waiting at this late date for Hendry to wave a big wand and solve their miserable offseason. The problem with this theory is that every promise of a big move this offseason (e.g., Beltran, Renteria, Ordonez, even Delgado!) has proven to be sheer propaganda. I like Hendry a lot, but his hands are tied. The Trib decided that last offseason's splurge was a waste of money and now they're cutting their losses. Hendry's been very upfront about this, but nobody wearing blue noticed. For example, Hendry was clear that he didn't make a move to add a decent OF until after Sosa, Alou, Clement, Mercker, Grudz, etc. were all gone, because the Trib didn't give him any more money to spend. In fact, it would be a breach of fiduciary duty to their shareholders to spend more money on payroll. If a third place team draws 3 million, why pay through the nose for an outside chance at a 1st place team?

Clement's beard
02-09-2005, 03:23 PM
Since when is Billy Beane the greatest thing since sliced bread?

HebrewHammer
02-09-2005, 03:24 PM
Since when is Billy Beane the greatest thing since sliced bread?

Since when is Hendry? You've been exposed ScRubs fan. Now go back to ScRubsTalk with your tail between your legs.

rdivaldi
02-09-2005, 03:27 PM
Since when is Billy Beane the greatest thing since sliced bread?

He's not, but to be fair he's gotten his team to the playoffs 3 out of the past 4 seasons with one of the lowest payrolls in baseball. The guy is a very shrewd GM. To think Hendry is going to "fleece" them is asinine.

Jabroni
02-09-2005, 03:27 PM
Since when is Billy Beane the greatest thing since sliced bread?Only FOBB will tell you that but even as a person like myself who thinks that Beane is overrated by FOBB, he doesn't often get robbed in trades. He knows Dotel has alot of value to a team like the Cubs and isn't going to just give him away for scrub prospects. He's in the driver's seat now; not the Cubs.
You've been exposed ScRubs fan. Now go back to ScRubsTalk with your tail between your legs.:thumbsup: I've known this guy was a Flubs' fan ever since his first few posts. He doesn't ever get out of line or rip the Sox but every post of his is pro-Flubs. :tongue:

Clement's beard
02-09-2005, 03:27 PM
Did the cubs trade Farnsworth or Mark Prior today?:?: This is Kyle Farnsworth we are talking about.

Rocklive99
02-09-2005, 03:29 PM
So who is this Bruce Levine kid they got, is he that one AA pitcher, or the one outfielder I keep hearing about

rdivaldi
02-09-2005, 03:30 PM
Did the cubs trade Farnsworth or Mark Prior today?:?: This is Kyle Farnsworth we are talking about.

It's not that, it's the ridiculous positive spin you're trying to put on this. I agree somewhat that there's a bit of "addition by subtraction" going on, but let's face the facts. The Flubbies didn't really get anything of value for the guy that we've been hearing about being "The closer of the future" for over 3 years.

Flub fans put waaaaaay to much faith in Hendry.

Jabroni
02-09-2005, 03:32 PM
It's not that, it's the ridiculous positive spin you're trying to put on this. I agree somewhat that there's a bit of "addition by subtraction" going on, but let's face the facts. The Flubbies didn't really get anything of value for the guy that we've been hearing about being "The closer of the future" for over 3 years.

Flub fans put waaaaaay to much faith in Hendry.Novoa is the only decent prospect of the three. The Baltimore prospects from the Sosa trade aren't anything special either. I don't see how the Cubs are going to ship them to the A's for Dotel. If anything, I think the Cubs will have to give up their own good prospects for Dotel and replace them with the mediocre prospects they just got in the Sosa and Farnsworth trades.

Clement's beard
02-09-2005, 03:33 PM
It's not that, it's the ridiculous positive spin you're trying to put on this. I agree somewhat that there's a bit of "addition by subtraction" going on, but let's face the facts. The Flubbies didn't really get anything of value for the guy that we've been hearing about being "The closer of the future" for over 3 years.

Flub fans put waaaaaay to much faith in Hendry.

I'd agree with that if Hendry does nothing else. However, it's not likely.

rdivaldi
02-09-2005, 03:38 PM
Novoa is the only decent prospect of the three. The Baltimore prospects from the Sosa trade aren't anything special either. I don't see how the Cubs are going to ship them to the A's for Dotel. If anything, I think the Cubs will have to give up their own good prospects for Dotel and replace them with the mediocre prospects they just got in the Sosa and Farnsworth trades.

I agree fully. The guys they've received are basically "filler" for their AA and AAA affiliates. The Flub farm system is nothing like it was a couple of years ago. Considering the Braves had to give up Capellan to get Kolb, methinks the Flubs will have to give up a top rated pitcher to get Dotel. Honestly, they don't have many.

spawn
02-09-2005, 03:39 PM
Only FOBB will tell you that but even as a person like myself who thinks that Beane is overrated by FOBB, he doesn't often get robbed in trades. He knows Dotel has alot of value to a team like the Cubs and isn't going to just give him away for scrub prospects. He's in the driver's seat now; not the Cubs.
:thumbsup: I've known this guy was a Flubs' fan ever since his first few posts. He doesn't ever get out of line or rip the Sox but every post of his is pro-Flubs. :tongue:

With a user name like Clement's Beard, what else would he be?:D:

rdivaldi
02-09-2005, 03:40 PM
I'd agree with that if Hendry does nothing else. However, it's not likely.

Really? I don't see too many options on the horizon for him. As I said above, to get Dotel might cost the Flubbies a good minor league arm, and they don't have too many of them left.

Jabroni
02-09-2005, 03:41 PM
I agree fully. The guys they've received are basically "filler" for their AA and AAA affiliates. The Flub farm system is nothing like it was a couple of years ago. Considering the Braves had to give up Capellan to get Kolb, methinks the Flubs will have to give up a top rated pitcher to get Dotel. Honestly, they don't have many.They will probably have to give up guys like Angel Guzman, Brian Dopirak, and Richard Lewis.

maurice
02-09-2005, 03:49 PM
It's possible that Hendry dumped Farns to clear salary space to add Player X.

Given the pattern this offseason, it's at least equally likely that he dumped Farns to retroactively clear salary space to add Burnitz, because he had to send more money that he expected to Baltimore in the Sosa deal.

All the talk of "addition by subtraction" has some limited merit. However, it's absurd to think that you can improve a third place team by subtracting two of its best offensive players, a good starting pitcher, two bullpen arms, etc., while adding nothing more than a no-hit backup catcher, a .230AVE/30HR OF, J.H. Jr., a RP who will likely spend the entire season on the DL, and a Hawkins clone.

Jabroni
02-09-2005, 03:50 PM
It's possible that Hendry dumped Farns to clear salary space to add Player X.

Given the pattern this offseason, it's at least equally likely that he dumped Farns to retroactively clear salary space to add Burnitz, because he had to send more money that he expected to Baltimore in the Sosa deal.

All the talk of "addition by subtraction" has some limited merit. However, it's absurd to think that you can improve a third place team by subtracting two of its best offensive players, a good starting pitcher, two bullpen arms, etc., while adding nothing more than a no-hit backup catcher, a .230AVE/30HR OF, J.H. Jr., a RP who will likely spend the entire season on the DL, and a Hawkins clone.But the Flubs improved their "team chemistry"! That alone will win them the divison!!!

Jjav829
02-09-2005, 03:51 PM
Alas, Kyle Farnsworth, we hardly knew ye...

...Kyle Farnsworth, welcome to the AL Central Division!

Ah memories. Everyone remember this magical night in Farnsworth Implosion History? (http://www.progressiveboink.com/archive/wrigley.htm)

:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

That is GREAT! One of the funniest things I've ever read on the internet! My ears hurt from laughing. :D:

Ol' No. 2
02-09-2005, 04:10 PM
It's possible that Hendry dumped Farns to clear salary space to add Player X.

Given the pattern this offseason, it's at least equally likely that he dumped Farns to retroactively clear salary space to add Burnitz, because he had to send more money that he expected to Baltimore in the Sosa deal.

All the talk of "addition by subtraction" has some limited merit. However, it's absurd to think that you can improve a third place team by subtracting two of its best offensive players, a good starting pitcher, two bullpen arms, etc., while adding nothing more than a no-hit backup catcher, a .230AVE/30HR OF, J.H. Jr., a RP who will likely spend the entire season on the DL, and a Hawkins clone.Clear salary space?? It's not as if Farns made $10M. They cleared a measly $2M. It's not like they're going to go out and sign a stud closer for that. They dumped him because they were tired of his act.

Jabroni
02-09-2005, 04:17 PM
Clear salary space?? It's not as if Farns made $10M. They cleared a measly $2M. It's not like they're going to go out and sign a stud closer for that. They dumped him because they were tired of his act.Agreed. Dotel is going to make $4.75 million this season and the Flubs are only clearing $1.975 million from trading Farnsworth. They will still need to spend $2.775 million more to have Dotel on their roster and I thought they were already around their max payroll of $104 million after the Burnitz signing. Now I'm not even sure if the Flubs are going to make another move.

maurice
02-09-2005, 04:35 PM
It's not like they're going to go out and sign a stud closer for that.
:?:
Re-read my last post. I'm not saying that the first proposition is likely. I'm pointing out that the second proposition is at least as likely as the first.

In other words, it's illogical to presume that Hendry moved Farns as a precursor to a second deal. See also my post #42.

Ol' No. 2
02-09-2005, 04:44 PM
:?:
Re-read my last post. I'm not saying that the first proposition is likely. I'm pointing out that the second proposition is at least as likely as the first.

In other words, it's illogical to presume that Hendry moved Farns as a precursor to a second deal.I wasn't referring specifically to your post as much as to the general idea that this move was clearing salary space. Trading away a $8M player could be construed as a payroll dump. But a $2M player? I don't think Hendry's budget is that tight where $2M makes a difference.

JUribe1989
02-09-2005, 04:54 PM
June 25, 2004....Cubs @ Sox.....Pauly at the plate...Farnsworth on the mound....That ball hit way back, Alou looks up! You can put it on the board...YES!!

Kyle Farnsworth on June 25, 2004
.2 IP, 2 BB's, 3 ER, another terrible outing

I can't wait to face this guy all the time!

santo=dorf
02-09-2005, 05:13 PM
The Cubs also gave up a PTBNL, and The Tigers signed Jason Grilli. (http://detroit.tigers.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/det/news/det_press_release.jsp?ymd=20050209&content_id=941065&vkey=pr_det&fext=.jsp)

They're on their way!!!

Jabroni
02-09-2005, 07:00 PM
Baseball America on the trade:
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/news/050209farnsworth.html

Wow, one of the prospects the Cubs are getting went to high school near me. He went to Walter Lutheran where my buddy went...Flowers, 21, was considered the best athlete in the Tigers system before the trade. One of the top high school quarterbacks in the nation as a senior in high school, Flowers received a $215,000 bonus as a fifth-round pick in 2002 to sway him away from playing football and baseball at Arizona State. In 2 years in the Tigers system, Flowers has played all but six games of his career in short-season ball, struggling to translate his unquestioned tools into on-the-field performance. He took a major step forward in 2004, batting .280/.341/.407 at short-season Oneonta, including the first four home runs of his career. His professional totals are .267/.307/.343 in 150 games, with five home runs and 31 stolen bases. Flowers offers potential in both the power and speed departments, yet he remains extremely raw. He has good bat speed, but woeful plate discipline has been his downfall, and hes still learning how to take advantage of his speed on the basepaths. A Chicago area product from Walter Lutheran High School in Melrose Park, Flowers will get his first shot at a full season of play with Peoria, the Cubs new affiliate in the Midwest League.

Mohoney
02-10-2005, 03:52 AM
Agreed again. Just like the C.Lee trade, this move is phase one of a two- or more-phases deal by Hendry. A lot of people griped about the C.Lee trade at first, but that ultimately worked out quite well.

It's still risky, because you never know what tricks somebody might pull out at the bargaining table. What if Beane tells Hendry that he wants Angel Guzman in any Dotel deal, and it's a deal-breaker if Guzman's not included? I don't think Hendry would ever give up Guzman in a Dotel package.

Plus, there were a multitude of free agents still on the market that Kenny Williams had his eye on at the time of the Lee trade. There are no such options for Hendry. Any additions facilitated by the shedded payroll (if there even are any) would have to come from another trade, giving up a hefty portion of the minor league depth you just acquired.

I'm not a betting man, but I would put the odds at 50-50 that Hendry is able to land the closer he wants for anybody in the Fontenot/Crouthers/Moore/Novoa/Flowers group without including Guzman. If I were a GM, I would insist on Angel Guzman, Roberto Novoa, and a throw-in, and I wouldn't back down.

seahawk037
02-10-2005, 02:32 PM
I saw a "help wanted" sign at Tai's tap yesterday... this explains it! Anyone have any bartending experience?

Hmmm, this might explain why the Trixies were all in tears this morning on the Brown Line.