PDA

View Full Version : Are We really going to suffer by losing Maggs and Lee???


TheTwinsMustDie
02-08-2005, 04:08 PM
The Sox are taking a lot of crap about sacrificing all of their offense from last year for speed, but is this really true??

Yes, we lost Carlos and Maggs, but Maggs was only there for 1/3 of the season. Plus, Frank was out all that time as well. With these two huge injuries, look at all the offense we still produced!!

Now, we will probably have Frank for 3/4ths of the year. Then we have Dye and an in-shape Everett to replace the production of the trash known as Magglio.

In addition, we have speed in Pods and Iguchi and another solid bat in Pyrz. And we get Rowand and Uribe as starters for the full year.

Completely ignoring the fact that our pitching is 100% better than last year, I think there is a valid arguement that are offense and run production will be more consistent AND actually surpass last year totals!

Its gonna come down to the Sox and the Twins for the Central again this year and like my name says.......The Twins Must Die!

MUsoxfan
02-08-2005, 04:11 PM
The 2005 Sox are a MUCH improved team. There's no doubt in my mind.

Baby Fisk
02-08-2005, 04:16 PM
We are definitely suffering by the amount of navel-gazing self-doubting daily affirmation threads going up every day (don't mean to pick on you specifically, TheTwinsMustDie).

The Sox are good enough, they are smart enough, and dog-gone it, we like them!

The Offseason Must Die! :cool:

SOXintheBURGH
02-08-2005, 04:17 PM
Short answer: No.

Long answer: Hell no.

JRIG
02-08-2005, 04:29 PM
I don't think there's a chance in hell we score more runs than we did last season. And I don't buy the argument that we were any more inconsistent with our scoring than any other team.

What I hang my hat on is an improved pitching staff. If we can decrease the numbers of runs scored against us, the fall in our scoring won't be as much of a factor.

I'm not sure if we'll be a better team than last year, but there's no doubt we'll be different.

TheTwinsMustDie
02-08-2005, 04:38 PM
I don't think there's a chance in hell we score more runs than we did last season.

Why not?...With Pods and Iguchi, it can be argued that we will have many more guys on base to set the table for the middle of our lineup. Do you really think that the 2005 lineup with a healthy Frank and Everett will not be able to replace this?

Lee 99 RBI
Ordonez 37 RBI
Thomas 49 RBI
Valentin 70 RBI

veeter
02-08-2005, 04:43 PM
If you asked me BEFORE Mags was injured: would you want Mags @ 15mil/per or Jermaine Dye @ about 4.5? I would have said sign Dye. He's the steal of the off-season. The Lee thing simply made sense. You save all that money to use on Iguchi, P-ski...et al. Will we miss them.. no. Kenny Williams IMO will be executive of the year.

Jurr
02-08-2005, 05:53 PM
Magglio Ordonez was a GREAT ballplayer for the Sox. He had a complete game about him, and I loved watching him play.

Carlos Lee was a great 'tweener. He wasn't a totally complete ballplayer, but he did come through in some big moments and was a consistent producer.

They're both great offensive players, and Maggs flashed some strong leather. However, we just replaced Maggs with a guy in Jermaine Dye that hit 23 homers last year playing half his games in a pitcher's park while missing a piece of the season with injuries. He could easily win a comeback player of the year award (and possibly be in the mix for the AL MVP) playing in the launching pad known as the Cell. If he can stay healthy (and his history doesn't warrant terrible concern due to the nature of the injuries) he will be able to produce a great deal of what we lost from Magglio.

I am in that minority that thinks Joe Crede is going to turn up the heat this season, and he can help the roster out with more steady production. Juan Uribe may not give us the homerun production of Jose Valentin, but he will most likely get on base more than Jose. (remember as well that Juan is only 25 and has room to grow) Iguchi is going to hopefully produce at a higher rate than Harris, including power numbers, and Podsednik will flourish being a part of a balanced lineup with a slew of good RBI chances (AJP and Crede will be 8 and 9 in the order). Don't forget Carl Everett, who could come into the season with his new commitment to the Sox (20 pounds lighter) and put up even better numbers than he was throwing out there for the Rangers two years ago.

This team is going to fall off the enormous homerun pace, but not by such a dramatic margin that it shows up in the win and loss columns. What this team gains in character and fire will more than compensate for the losses of these two quiet pseudo-stars.
The Indianapolis Colts, though in a different sport, teach us a valuable lesson. You can't win it all with an explosive offense and a de-emphasis on the defensive side of the ball. The Sox did a great job balancing the team, focusing on defense more. That being said, we shouldn't forget that the players that are going to make up this roster are solid offensive players in their own right.

rdivaldi
02-08-2005, 06:06 PM
And I don't buy the argument that we were any more inconsistent with our scoring than any other team.

Actually we had the most inconsistent offense in baseball. Check out this lenghty thread (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=44280&page=1&pp=20) that illustrates that point.

OEO Magglio
02-08-2005, 06:10 PM
Actually we had the most inconsistent offense in baseball. Check out this lenghty thread (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=44280&page=1&pp=20) that illustrates that point.
All you had to do is watch this team play and you'd be able to figure that out.

Mickster
02-08-2005, 06:14 PM
Seeing that Pods is was a .265 career minor league hitter and enjoyed a nice fluke season I doubt he will even be in the league in 2-3 years....

I'll take that bet. :cool:

Flight #24
02-08-2005, 06:20 PM
HR losses based on reasonable projections for this year if healthy:

ChiSox 2004 #s v. Reasonable projections for their replacements in 2005:

LF: Lee(31) v. Pods (5) = -25
RF: Maggs/Borchard/Timo(23) v. Dye(30) = +7
SS/2B: Valentin(30) v. Iguchi(20) = -10 **Iguchi replaces Valentin in the order
C: Alomar/Olivo/Burke(9) v. AJP(20) = +11 **Assume Davis still catches about 50 games
DH: Frank/Everett(23) v. Frank/Everett(30) = +7

Net HR change = -8

So we're relying on Konerko/ARow/Uribe to maintain their power #s and/or Crede to maintain or better his.

Jerome
02-08-2005, 06:25 PM
Yes, of course we are going to suffer. Replacing Lee and Maggs with Podsednik and Dye will mean way less offense. Fourtunately, KW brought in a good fifth starter, catcher, second baseman, and improved the bullpen.

I think the improvements in these areas will offset the loss of the CLEE and Maggs production. Plus, if Podsednik struggles as a leadoff man (yeah, 2003 seems like a fluke with his minor league stats). I'm sure Iguchi could step in and bat leadoff.

TheTwinsMustDie
02-08-2005, 06:36 PM
Yes, of course we are going to suffer. Replacing Lee and Maggs with Podsednik and Dye will mean way less offense. Fourtunately, KW brought in a good fifth starter, catcher, second baseman, and improved the bullpen.

I think the improvements in these areas will offset the loss of the CLEE and Maggs production. Plus, if Podsednik struggles as a leadoff man (yeah, 2003 seems like a fluke with his minor league stats). I'm sure Iguchi could step in and bat leadoff.

I am still VERY confused.......You say replacing Lee and Maggs with Posednick and Dye will mean way less offense?......Lee had 31 HR and 99 RBI.You don't think Dye will be in that range?

Magglio had 9HR and 37 RBI last year........You don't think Pods can match that in a full season, plus steal 50+ bases?

This doesn't even take into account that we now have a fulltime catcher and second baseman that can hit as well?

So how does this equal "way less offense"???......I just don't see it!

Ol' No. 2
02-08-2005, 06:53 PM
I am still VERY confused.......You say replacing Lee and Maggs with Posednick and Dye will mean way less offense?......Lee had 31 HR and 99 RBI.You don't think Dye will be in that range?

Magglio had 9HR and 37 RBI last year........You don't think Pods can match that in a full season, plus steal 50+ bases?

This doesn't even take into account that we now have a fulltime catcher and second baseman that can hit as well?

So how does this equal "way less offense"???......I just don't see it!If we just consider the OF, Dye will probably not come up to replacing CLee on offense, but he won't be that far off (career SLG .463 vs. .488). Moving from the Colliseum to Coors East will probably close the gap somewhat from those numbers. In KC he was slugging at a .525-550 clip. And Lee had a tendency to try to swing for the fences. I don't see Dye doing that so much. The platoon of Ordonez/Perez/Borchard hit about .239 last year. Pods can match that even if he doesn't do any better than his 2004 numbers, plus add significant speed. So in the OF, I see the Sox having a slightly better offense than 2004, but at worst it's even.

In the IF, Crede is a lot more likely to get better than worse, and Iguchi, though unproven, figures to be better than Harris. Net upgrade in the IF.

No point in even discussing catcher.

So how is the Sox offense NOT improved over last year?

SoxSpeed22
02-08-2005, 07:01 PM
I don't think there's a chance in hell we score more runs than we did last season.
I'm not sure if we'll be a better team than last year, but there's no doubt we'll be different.Lets get one thing straight. Last year we scored 865 runs (3 in AL) and hit 242 Home runs (T-1 AL). The biggest problems I saw was the pitching and inconsistency. We allowed 831 runs (11 in AL) and 224 Home runs (WORST IN AL! SECOND WORST IN MAJORS!) The Lee trade allowed us to sign Pierzynski, who should call pitches better than Davis or Burke. The inconsistency was that they could score a ton in one game and go through slumps. Home Runs are nice but they cannot be used as a primary method of scoring (as the Flubs learned very painfully last year). With this team, we can make our own breaks on the bases and do better in close games. Minnesota scored 780 runs (10 in AL), but won 9 more games. Because of their pitchers and defense and 116 steals (3 in AL) we had 78 (9 in AL)
Stats from Baseball-reference.com

nccwsfan
02-08-2005, 08:23 PM
IProblem is the CWS have just experienced some frustrating seasons where the bats slept. This team needed a kick start and KW has done that. Again, we are not losing Magglio's production because he was out for a good part of 2004, and Dye will do more than enough to fill that void. Lee had good numbers but I'll take Podsednik, Vizcaino, Pierzynski, Dye, Iguchi, Walker, et al to replace him.

If if ain't broke don't fix it. If it is broke fix it (or in Maggs' case go to Austria for shock therapy). The White Sox are better off.

chisoxmike
02-08-2005, 08:27 PM
Why can't the season just start already?