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FGarcia34
02-07-2005, 04:01 PM
First, I'll start with the 3 time defending AL Central Champs, the Minnesota Twins.

Well, They re-signed Brad Radke, Jacque Jones, Luis Rivas...They signed Eric Munson, Juan Castro and Armando Rios. They lost Corey Koskie, Christian Guzman and Henry Blanco. However, this is a team with an absolutely fantastic outfield. Jones, Hunter, Stewart, and Ford bring many things to the table. Great defense, great baserunning skills (stealing), good enough offense, and the most important tool, LEADERSHIP. The Twins will need a big effort from players like Joe Mauer and Michael Cuddyer this season. Yes, this team lost core players but I'm not ready to write them off quite yet. Eventhough talks with Johan Santana have soured and this could possibly be his last season in a Twins uniform, he will have another fantastic season. They also have a very strong bullpen. Their bullpen makes pitchers like Silva and Mulholland look very good. Joe Nathan is a very good closer. Overall, the Twins look to be slipping a little bit and need a lot of players to step up. The last couple seasons there have been one or two surprises on the Twins team that they may have not necessarily needed. This season, they need MANY players to step up and I just do not see that happening.

Projected Opening Day Lineup
C - Joe Mauer
1B - Justin Morneau
2B - Luis Rivas
3B - Michael Cuddyer
SS - Juan Castro
LF - Shannon Stewart
CF - Torii Hunter
RF - Jacque Jones
DH - Lew Ford
SP - Johan Santana

Predicted Final Record: 83-79 (3rd in the AL Central)

Now, with the continuously "underachieving" Chicago White Sox.

This team lost a lot of fire power in the offseason; Magglio Ordonez, Carlos Lee, and Jose Valentin. Frank Thomas may not be back until May or June. What this team did do is add speed and defense. Aaron Rowand, Jermaine Dye, and Scott Podsednik make up the best defensive outfield the White Sox have fielded in years. They add decent power and great speed to this team. Losing Valentin defensively was a blessing to this team. Uribe has a very good glove and a very strong arm at short stop. Tadahito Iguchi will hopefully give the White Sox their first full-time starting 2nd Basemen since Ray Durham. The biggest thing not talked about with the White Sox is how much they improved their pitching. By far, the best rotation in the division. Jon Garland will surely do better than 5-16 in the 5th spot. Buerhle is the clear cut leader on this team and a player like El Duque adds a lot of experience. They also bulked up their bullpen by adding Dustin Hermanson and Luis Vizcaino. Two players who can also pick up a spot start if needed. Overall, the White Sox may be the best team in the division simply because they could have 5 consistent starters and could win more consistently than the other teams.

Projected Opening Day Lineup
C - A.J Pierzynski
1B - Paul Konerko
2B - Tadahito Iguchi
3B - Joe Crede
SS - Juan Uribe
LF - Aaron Rowand
CF - Scott Podsednik
RF - Jermaine Dye
DH - Carl Everett
SP - Mark Buerhle

Predicted Final Record: 95-67 (2005 AL Central Champs)

The Cleveland Indians made a strong impact last season. Many players stepped up for this team and they have loads of potential. They did lose their "General" in the infield with Omar Vizquel departing. However players like Victor Martinez and Coco Crisp have stepped up. They do have a quality rotation. They added the talented pitcher Kevin Millwood to possibly anchor their staff. Millwood, Sabathia, and Anderson make a very formidable trio, but do they have what it takes at the bottom of their rotation? Also, there bullpen is very suspect. Many believe this team might have won the division. They will need players like Ronnie Belliard and Casey Blake to have good seasons like they did last year. I do believe this team has done enough to surpass Minnesota in talent, however I do not believe they have the leadership capabilities to take them to the next level.

Projected Opening Day Lineup
C - Victor Martinez
1B - Ben Broussard
2B - Ronnie Belliard
3B - Casey Blake
SS - Johnny Peralta
LF - Jody Gerut
CF - Coco Crisp
RF - Sizemore (First Name?)
SP - CC Sabathia

Predicted Finish - 78-83 (3rd in AL Central)

Finally, the 100 loss Detroit Tigers. This team believes that the additions of Troy Percival and Magglio Ordonez may take them to the promise land. They have a pitching staff full of "Jon Garland's." They do have a decent bullpen and Troy Percival will help. Pudge is the obvious leader of this team and is very talented. A surprise season last year by Carlos Guillen was very helpful and he is a very good player. This team reminds me a lot of previous White Sox teams. They have pretty good power in their outfield with Ordonez, White, and Monroe. They also have speedy guy in Alex Sanchez. A powerful guy in Dimitri Young. However, this team plays in an enormus stadium that is not condusive to power hitting. Their pitchers give up multiple extra base hits as well. I very well see this team making strides, however they will not compete at the end of the season for the division.

Projected Opening Day Lineup
C - Ivan Rodriguez
1B - Carlos Pena
2B - Omar Infante
3B - Brandon Inge
SS - Carlos Guillen
LF - Rondell White
CF - Alex Sanchez
RF - Magglio Ordonez
SP - Jeremy Bonderman

Predicted Finish - 75 - 87 (4th in AL Central)

Kansas City finished last in the division last season and look primed to do the same this coming season. The only household name on that team is Mike Sweeney and he will probably become a summer rental at the trading block. They did nothing to improve their team at any aspect.

Projected Opening Day Lineup
C - John Buck
1B - Mike Sweeney
2B - Tony Graffanino
3B - Chris Truby
SS - Angel Berroa
OF In General - ???
SP - ???

Predicted finish - 60 - 102 (Last Place in the AL Central)

I want Mags back
02-07-2005, 04:09 PM
First, I'll start with the 3 time defending AL Central Champs, the Minnesota Twins.


Predicted Final Record: 83-79 (3rd in the AL Central)

Now, with the continuously "underachieving" Chicago White Sox.

This team lost a lot of fire power in the offseason; Magglio Ordonez, Carlos Lee, and Jose Valentin. Frank Thomas may not be back until May or June. What this team did do is add speed and defense. Aaron Rowand, Jermaine Dye, and Scott Podsednik make up the best defensive outfield the White Sox have fielded in years. They add decent power and great speed to this team. Losing Valentin defensively was a blessing to this team. Uribe has a very good glove and a very strong arm at short stop. Tadahito Iguchi will hopefully give the White Sox their first full-time starting 2nd Basemen since Ray Durham. The biggest thing not talked about with the White Sox is how much they improved their pitching. By far, the best rotation in the division. Jon Garland will surely do better than 5-16 in the 5th spot. Buerhle is the clear cut leader on this team and a player like El Duque adds a lot of experience. They also bulked up their bullpen by adding Dustin Hermanson and Luis Vizcaino. Two players who can also pick up a spot start if needed. Overall, the White Sox may be the best team in the division simply because they could have 5 consistent starters and could win more consistently than the other teams.

Projected Opening Day Lineup
C - A.J Pierzynski
1B - Paul Konerko
2B - Tadahito Iguchi
3B - Joe Crede
SS - Juan Uribe
LF - Aaron Rowand
CF - Scott Podsednik
RF - Jermaine Dye
DH - Carl Everett
SP - Mark Buerhle

Predicted Final Record: 95-67 (2005 AL Central Champs)

The Cleveland Indians Predicted Finish - 78-83 (3rd in AL Central)



1. U cant have 2 in 3rd place

2. 95 wins. Give me a break

Baby Fisk
02-07-2005, 04:11 PM
2. 95 wins. Give me a break

No kidding. It's 100 wins or bust, kiddo! :yup:

fquaye149
02-07-2005, 04:45 PM
anticipate daver disagreeing w/ you over whether we have improved on D

MrRoboto83
02-07-2005, 04:47 PM
No kidding. It's 100 wins or bust, kiddo! :yup:


I agree :gulp:

longshot7
02-07-2005, 04:58 PM
We have way too many ???'s to be a considered such a lock for 1st place.

MrRoboto83
02-07-2005, 04:59 PM
We have way too many ???'s to be a considered such a lock for 1st place.


never hurts to dream a little

OEO Magglio
02-07-2005, 06:08 PM
1. U cant have 2 in 3rd place

2. 95 wins. Give me a break
In another thread a few weeks back before aj and Iguchi were signed I remember saying I believed that if those two were signed which I doubted either would be at the time that this is a 95 win team, I don't think 95 wins is out of the question at all.

OEO Magglio
02-07-2005, 06:09 PM
We have way too many ???'s to be a considered such a lock for 1st place.
Every team in baseball has question marks.

EDIT: By the way, there is no way I consider any team a lock especially the sox because of what they've done in past years and I refuse to count the twins out of anything, however I've never felt as good about a sox team as I feel about this one.

PAPChiSox729
02-07-2005, 09:29 PM
We have way too many ???'s to be a considered such a lock for 1st place.

A little optimism never hurt anybody...
:smokin:100 WINS HERE WE COME!!!:smokin:

OG4LIFE
02-07-2005, 10:05 PM
hey guys, looks like this thread is running a little low on CWS kool-aid... here you go-


:gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp:

IMO, the sox are waay improved over last year. to me, still not better than the twinks. still as a poster mentioned earlier- there are a lot of question marks, lets go over them, and see how comfortable we all are just skipping the season and giving the central to the sox:

1. frank thomas-
when will he be back?
will he stay healthy?
will he produce?

2. El Duque- Will he stay healthy and produce along his career avg's or will we be seeing hermanson in the 5th spot?

3. contreras- will he pull his head out of his ass and realize his potential?

4. Pods- who is the real Scotty Pods? 2003 or 2004? his comments seem to indicate 2003, but lets see it first

5. AJ- cancer? he says he isnt, but like pods, talk is cheap. lets see what happens when things start getting tough

6. Tadahito- how quick/well will he adjust? may? june?

7. shingotime- who is the real shingo? the guy getting shelled in august/sept or lights out may-july?

8. everett- reports say he's in shape, will he revert back to 2003 form?

9. rowand- 2004 a fluke? definitely somewhat of a statistical anomoly over his career #'s, but that was the first time he got a real shot.

there are other minor questions (crede living up to the billing, dye staying healthy, ozzie learning from rookie mistakes, although that might be more than minor...)

if i had to bet, i would not feel comfortable betting on the sox to take the central. if half of the answers to the above question marks are negative (esp. the first 5), no way we win the central.

oeo
02-07-2005, 11:02 PM
When we do win the Central, all of you will be crawling back like you believed they couldn't. What's wrong with believing in your team? All the pessimism is starting to anger me, there's no way you cannot be excited about the season.

I think I'm going to make a list of everyone who did not believe and is right back on the bandwagon in August when they're still going strong.

JUribe1989
02-07-2005, 11:06 PM
This team will win the Central. Our staf 1-5 is better than any other in our division because we have a solid starter in every rotation spot. Our lineup is much better and out defense in the outfield is unstoppable.

OurBitchinMinny
02-07-2005, 11:09 PM
When we do win the Central, all of you will be crawling back like you believed they couldn't. What's wrong with believing in your team? All the pessimism is starting to anger me, there's no way you cannot be excited about the season.

I think I'm going to make a list of everyone who did not believe and is right back on the bandwagon in August when they're still going strong.


win the central? Pessimism? Its called a track record. This team has done nothing but underachieve and choke down the stretch. The team is not better on paper, other than the rotation, if and only if hernandez stays healthy. Lee>>>>Posednik (and its not even close). Who the hell knows what iguchi will do. Blind loyalty to a team? A team above questioning? What is this a cubs site? yes this team can win the division, but they could also finish 3rd or 4th. And does it really matter anyway since more than likely NY will be in the world series regardless of who comes out of the central? Go ahead and make a list. I hope you can throw it back in my face when they win the divison. All i know is i was high on white sox kool-aid for the last 3-4 years only to be disappointed by an unispired bunch of underachievers. There are just too many ?'s to make me feel as confident as you. Why are you so confident? We added a pticher who is injury prone and might be 50. Iguchi is unproven over here. Crede and Uribe? They were inconsistent last year. Can dye stay healthy and be half of what maggs was when healthy? Can posednik hit above .250? How does our DH keep getting hurt and when will he be back? Will AJ poison the club house? Can ozzie manage (he couldnt last year)? Will rowand and shingo add on to there breakout years or regress? Call it pessimism, but Im done blindly following a team. They tried to shake things up, I applaud that. Now lets start the season and see what happens

OEO Magglio
02-07-2005, 11:12 PM
win the central? Pessimism? Its called a track record. This team has done nothing but underachieve and choke down the stretch. The team is not better on paper, other than the rotation, if and only if hernandez stays healthy. Lee>>>>Posednik (and its not even close). Who the hell knows what iguchi will do. Blind loyalty to a team? A team above questioning? What is this a cubs site? yes this team can win the division, but they could also finish 3rd or 4th. And does it really matter anyway since more than likely NY will be in the world series regardless of who comes out of the central?
Rotation is upgraded, the bullpen is much improved and I'd argue with you that the lineup is better also.

OurBitchinMinny
02-07-2005, 11:20 PM
Rotation is upgraded, the bullpen is much improved and I'd argue with you that the lineup is better also.

Ill give you the rotation, provided el duque stays healthy, otherwise its the same as last year. The bullpen should be better, provided shingo makes adjustments as he gets seen more and more. Marte was not good last year and has to be better. Vizcaino and Hermanson should make it better. So ill give you that too. But the lineup? How do you figure losing lee and ordonez (albeit we only had him for the first part of the season) helps make the team better. You are replacing lee with a guy who hit .240 -something with a bad OBP. If he gets on, yes he is a threat to steal. For this lineup to be better, dye needs to have a CLee type season, pods has to hit .285+ and get on base a ton. Iguchi needs to duplicate the last two seasons he has had in japan (which will be hard considering he has never faced ML pitching). The only spot we have upgraded in the offense without question is the catchers position, but we had to sacrifice defense to do it. Uribe needs to avoid the middle of the season slump. Its put up or shutup time for crede. The lineup is not better as a whole, especially if frank is out till june. That being said, I look for a pretty big year from carl everett. And if he starts out good while filling in frank, a spot in the lineup has to be found for him. Im guessing if pods doesnt produce, he will take his spot because I assume rowand and dye will be pretty solid.

OEO Magglio
02-07-2005, 11:30 PM
Ill give you the rotation, provided el duque stays healthy, otherwise its the same as last year. The bullpen should be better, provided shingo makes adjustments as he gets seen more and more. Marte was not good last year and has to be better. Vizcaino and Hermanson should make it better. So ill give you that too. But the lineup? How do you figure losing lee and ordonez (albeit we only had him for the first part of the season) helps make the team better. You are replacing lee with a guy who hit .240 -something with a bad OBP. If he gets on, yes he is a threat to steal. For this lineup to be better, dye needs to have a CLee type season, pods has to hit .285+ and get on base a ton. Iguchi needs to duplicate the last two seasons he has had in japan (which will be hard considering he has never faced ML pitching). The only spot we have upgraded in the offense without question is the catchers position, but we had to sacrifice defense to do it. Uribe needs to avoid the middle of the season slump. Its put up or shutup time for crede. The lineup is not better as a whole, especially if frank is out till june. That being said, I look for a pretty big year from carl everett. And if he starts out good while filling in frank, a spot in the lineup has to be found for him. Im guessing if pods doesnt produce, he will take his spot because I assume rowand and dye will be pretty solid.

First off, I'll argue all day with you on aj degrading the defense. Anyways, there are less holes in the offense, Iguchi is an upgrade over willie and even if he does faulter willie is backing him up, aj is a huge upgrade over big ben, juan over jose, this years joe should be better then last years joe. Dye is a huge upgrade over whatever we had to throw out there in right field once maggs went down. A healthy and inshape Carl then big frank is an upgrade over an out of shape carl. Also this is a much more versatile offense then in years past, we'll be able to score the tough run more often, we don't have to just rely on the homer, we have a real top of the order. I take this offense over the inconsistant homerun happy one we've had the past few years.

PicktoCLick72
02-07-2005, 11:33 PM
I still see the Royals inching out a division win. They also picked up Jose Lima.

FGarcia34
02-08-2005, 12:07 AM
All these pessimists out there talking about this teams track record is dead wrong. Simply because this is not the same team we started out with last season. This team is completely new and will have a new attitude.

Garcia, Wasnt Here to start the season...
Thomas was hurt for the majority of the season and will be back May/June
AJ Brings us a full time catcher...
Iguchi brings us a full time 2nd Basemen
Uribe completely upgrades at Shortstop over Valentin
Years of Lee, Valentin and Ordonez just didnt get it done
Runs will be much more consistent with Pods, A-Row, and Dye

I mean, look at the difference, how can you say this team has a bad track record??? The organization has a bad track record and the White Sox have had a bad track record, but THIS team will establish a new identity.

mcfish
02-08-2005, 12:50 AM
Lee>>>>Posednik (and its not even close). Who the hell knows what iguchi will do.Dye < Lee (and it is closer)
Podsednik > the sting of crappy right fielders
Rowand = Rowand
AJP > the string of crappy catchers including Olivo
Crede = Crede
Uribe > Valentin
Iguchi,Harris > Harris
Paulie = Paulie
Frank,Carl <= Frank (but hopefully Frank will be back sooner than later)

All in all, I see more > symbols than < symbols. Look at the whole picture instead of worrying about the loss of one overpaid but quality left fielder.

By the way, this doesn't even mention the bullpen and 5th starter.

OurBitchinMinny
02-08-2005, 01:45 AM
First off, I'll argue all day with you on aj degrading the defense. Anyways, there are less holes in the offense, Iguchi is an upgrade over willie and even if he does faulter willie is backing him up, aj is a huge upgrade over big ben, juan over jose, this years joe should be better then last years joe. Dye is a huge upgrade over whatever we had to throw out there in right field once maggs went down. A healthy and inshape Carl then big frank is an upgrade over an out of shape carl. Also this is a much more versatile offense then in years past, we'll be able to score the tough run more often, we don't have to just rely on the homer, we have a real top of the order. I take this offense over the inconsistant homerun happy one we've had the past few years.

Living in minnesota I saw AJ play many games and to say he is average defensively is generous. But he is vastly better on offense

OurBitchinMinny
02-08-2005, 01:51 AM
All these pessimists out there talking about this teams track record is dead wrong. Simply because this is not the same team we started out with last season. This team is completely new and will have a new attitude.

Garcia, Wasnt Here to start the season...
Thomas was hurt for the majority of the season and will be back May/June
AJ Brings us a full time catcher...
Iguchi brings us a full time 2nd Basemen
Uribe completely upgrades at Shortstop over Valentin
Years of Lee, Valentin and Ordonez just didnt get it done
Runs will be much more consistent with Pods, A-Row, and Dye

I mean, look at the difference, how can you say this team has a bad track record??? The organization has a bad track record and the White Sox have had a bad track record, but THIS team will establish a new identity.

Im talking about the way they finished the season. Garcia was here. Yeah thomas was hurt most of the season. And he is gonna be out till june. He has become injury prone. Whos to say he wont get hurt again. Uribe is an upgrade defensively and should be offensively unless he hits like he did the middle of the season. Iguchi is unproven in the US. I dont care about valentin being gone, but maggs and lee hurt. The argument that lee is the same or just slightly better than posednik is asinine. Lee is vastly better than posednik. .300>.240 and he had better power numbers and rbis. Pods is nothing special in the field and lee was just fine last year and really improved after being usurped from 3b to make way for the "great" crede. The only thing pods is better at is stealing bases, but he hit .240 and didnt walk a lot. You cant steal first base.

FGarcia34
02-08-2005, 02:45 PM
Im talking about the way they finished the season. Garcia was here. Yeah thomas was hurt most of the season. And he is gonna be out till june. He has become injury prone. Whos to say he wont get hurt again. Uribe is an upgrade defensively and should be offensively unless he hits like he did the middle of the season. Iguchi is unproven in the US. I dont care about valentin being gone, but maggs and lee hurt. The argument that lee is the same or just slightly better than posednik is asinine. Lee is vastly better than posednik. .300>.240 and he had better power numbers and rbis. Pods is nothing special in the field and lee was just fine last year and really improved after being usurped from 3b to make way for the "great" crede. The only thing pods is better at is stealing bases, but he hit .240 and didnt walk a lot. You cant steal first base.

I completely agree with you that Carlos Lee is much better than Podsednik. My point is that by trading Lee, we were able to upgrade at many other positions while still filling left field with a very formidable and talented player. Pods is a significant downgrade from Lee in average, home runs, and rbi, however in return we are getting stolen bases and we are even probably upgrading defensively a little bit. But trading Lee was important becuase really, we traded Carlos Lee and in return, we received Pods, Iguchi, AJ and El Duque. Yes, Thomas has been injury proned, however we have a guy in Carl Everett who has been working hard in the offseason that can make a difference in our lineup. If Frank keeps getting injured and Carl doesnt perform, I'm sure we can find a DH some where. And our pitchers were so tired down the stretch once we went to a temporary 4 man rotation. We have 5 quality starters and even a few pitchers who can make spot starts in Vizcaino, Hermanson, and Cotts. Look at the difference between our lineup at the end of last season to this season...

Pitching Roation
Buehrle (Same)
Garcia (Same)
El Duque is better than Contreras
Contreras is better than Garland
Garland is better than any person we put in the 5th spot

By adding one pitcher, it allowed us to upgrade 3 spots in our rotation...

Lineup
C - AJ/Davis is better than Alomar/Burke/Davis
1B - Paulie (Same)
2B - Willie/Uribe=Iguchi/Willie (Undetermined at this point)
SS - Uribe is better than Valentin
3B - Crede (Same)
LF - Podsednik is a DOWNGRADE from Lee
CF - Rowand (Same)
RF - Dye is better than Everett/Timo/Borchard
DH - Thomas/Everett/Goad/Borchard (Same)

We finished what? 9 games out of first last season...We upgraded anywhere from 7-10 positions in the offseason including everyday lineup, rotation, bullpen and bench. And we look what the top dog did...The twins, they sat with their finger up their butt doing nothing but losing core players like Koskie, Guzman and Blanco. Yes, we downgraded at one postion but the difference of the team make up will easily cover for that downgrade.

Ol' No. 2
02-08-2005, 03:57 PM
hey guys, looks like this thread is running a little low on CWS kool-aid... here you go-


:gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp:

IMO, the sox are waay improved over last year. to me, still not better than the twinks. still as a poster mentioned earlier- there are a lot of question marks, lets go over them, and see how comfortable we all are just skipping the season and giving the central to the sox:

1. frank thomas-
when will he be back?
will he stay healthy?
will he produce?

2. El Duque- Will he stay healthy and produce along his career avg's or will we be seeing hermanson in the 5th spot?

3. contreras- will he pull his head out of his ass and realize his potential?

4. Pods- who is the real Scotty Pods? 2003 or 2004? his comments seem to indicate 2003, but lets see it first

5. AJ- cancer? he says he isnt, but like pods, talk is cheap. lets see what happens when things start getting tough

6. Tadahito- how quick/well will he adjust? may? june?

7. shingotime- who is the real shingo? the guy getting shelled in august/sept or lights out may-july?

8. everett- reports say he's in shape, will he revert back to 2003 form?

9. rowand- 2004 a fluke? definitely somewhat of a statistical anomoly over his career #'s, but that was the first time he got a real shot.

there are other minor questions (crede living up to the billing, dye staying healthy, ozzie learning from rookie mistakes, although that might be more than minor...)

if i had to bet, i would not feel comfortable betting on the sox to take the central. if half of the answers to the above question marks are negative (esp. the first 5), no way we win the central.Absolutely correct. The Twins have no question marks in their lineup.:rolleyes:

Flight #24
02-08-2005, 04:08 PM
Absolutely correct. The Twins have no question marks in their lineup.:rolleyes:

Ahem....

Can Santana keep it up?
Can Radke repeat a career year?
Can Castro/Cuddyer/Tiffee make up for the losses of Guzman/Koskie?
Can Mauer stay healthy?
Can Mays come back?
Can Silva/Lohse repeat?
Can Shannon Stewart stay healthy?
Can Lew Ford repeat or was it a fluke?
Can Morneau become the force they say he is?

Holy crap - the Twins are going to finish behind the Royals!!!

FWIW - I's guess they get negative answers to at least Radke & Castro/Cuddyer/Tiffee. That means they'll need steps forward elsewhere just to stay even. Now even was 9 games better than the Sox in 2004, but primarily over a team rolling out Gload/Everett, Borchard, Harris, Davis, & Grilli on a regular basis. Swap those out with an in-shape Everett, Dye, Iguchi, AJP, & El Duque and the Sox have likely closed the gap significantly. Thus the Sox will likely contend for the division, and no team will likely run away.