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View Full Version : Tiger Fans ecstatic over Ordonez


OG4LIFE
02-06-2005, 08:20 PM
I was just curious to see the other side of the deal, to see what tiger fans thought of the deal that ordonez got:

tiger fan board (http://www.motownsports.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=7)

most of them seem pretty excited over the deal they gave ordonez. now imo, this contract was overpaying on a massive scale. i mean, the tigers basically bidded the contract up against themselves- no one was offering anywhere NEAR a 5 year, possible 7 year contract. the most he was getting was a 2 year deal with a base around 6 or 7 mil with incentives escalating the contract up. they probably could have reeled him in with a 3/4 year deal with option years and a base starting at 7/8mil year progressing to 12 mil in the final year, with all of the protection they currently have. ordonez wasnt worth this much money before he got hurt, and he definitely isnt now. if he stays healthy, he'll be making 18mil/year when he's 37,38. i loved maggs, but to me, 12-18 mil a year for 30hr/100 rbi seems a bit much (hell dye and rowand have a shot at that and they're making 3.5 mil and 5.4 mil, respectively). i'm not sure the tigers are as dumb as the mets are in terms of overpaying for aged, injury prone ex stars, but this contract is ridiculous. thoughts?

NSSoxFan
02-06-2005, 08:24 PM
I'm just happy it's over. Just remember, Magglio thinks the White Sox organization is dedicated to losing, it will be funny to see how he feels finishing 3rd and 4th for the rest of the career. The best thing the Sox can do is win the division 5 years in a row.

White Sox Baseball: From Maggs to Riches

Mohoney
02-06-2005, 10:46 PM
As much as I complain about Jon Garland, I'm certainly glad I'm not a Tigers fan. The Tigers have 5 Jon Garlands.

Ol' No. 2
02-06-2005, 11:04 PM
As much as I complain about Jon Garland, I'm certainly glad I'm not a Tigers fan. The Tigers have 5 Jon Garlands.They have two Jon Garlands. The rest can just aspire to be Jon Garland.

tacosalbarojas
02-06-2005, 11:10 PM
I'm just happy it's over. Just remember, Magglio thinks the White Sox organization is dedicated to losing, it will be funny to see how he feels finishing 3rd and 4th for the rest of the career. The best thing the Sox can do is win the division 5 years in a row.

White Sox Baseball: From Maggs to RichesI don't know if the Tigers will finish in third or fourth for the rest of Maggs' career, but you're dead on when you say the best thing the SOX can do to quell all Magglio talk is to win the division.

tacosalbarojas
02-06-2005, 11:12 PM
They have two Jon Garlands. The rest can just aspire to be Jon Garland.
Ouch! Justin Johnson resembles that remark!

BRDSR
02-06-2005, 11:13 PM
they probably could have reeled him in with a 3/4 year deal

The day I see baseball sign a contract for three quarters of a year will be the day I know we've gone too far.

Just kidding. I also think the Tigers overpaid, but I suppose if they had that much money available per year then there wasn't much else to do with it at this point in the offseason. I believe I remember reading that the contract is worth only $6 million this season, which certainly doesn't seem like too much of a risk. I don't know how the rest of the contract spreads out, but I guess that means he'll be making $20 million per at some point? I'm not sure what I think of the Tigers. I hope for their sake they have some very meticulous doctors.

OG4LIFE
02-06-2005, 11:31 PM
The day I see baseball sign a contract for three quarters of a year will be the day I know we've gone too far.

Just kidding. I also think the Tigers overpaid, but I suppose if they had that much money available per year then there wasn't much else to do with it at this point in the offseason. I believe I remember reading that the contract is worth only $6 million this season, which certainly doesn't seem like too much of a risk. I don't know how the rest of the contract spreads out, but I guess that means he'll be making $20 million per at some point? I'm not sure what I think of the Tigers. I hope for their sake they have some very meticulous doctors.

its 6 million this year (but the 6 million dollar signing bonus basically makes that 12), then 15, then 18, then 12 (a lot of tigers are arbitration eligible/becoming FA's in that year), then 18, then the option years. if he gets 540 at bats the year before the option years, then the last two years become guaranteed at 18 mil per year... holy hell. and he'll be 37 at that point. have fun trying to trade that one away.

but, this is all predicated that he meets the health requirements this year and the contract isnt voided.

WinningUgly!
02-06-2005, 11:36 PM
It's probably a good signing for a team like the Tigers. What do they really have to lose, anyway? Worst case scenario, they only have him for one season at $12M, with his injury. They've created a late offseason buzz, sold a few more tickets & added a name player. Good for them. With a little luck, the guy will be healthy & they'll sniff 3rd place a few times over the next several seasons.

There was no way any team, that was serious about contending in 2005, was able to afford the risk involved with Ordonez. The money Boras was asking was one thing. Tying up a roster spot with a huge multi-million-dollar question mark, another.

Whitesox029
02-06-2005, 11:39 PM
I'll never understand ballplayers...why would you rather play for the Tigers when they'll only pay you a few million dollars extra over a decent team with a chance?

Jjav829
02-06-2005, 11:40 PM
I say good for them. Let them be ecstatic. There will be plenty of time for them to bitch about what an awful signing it was over the next few seasons. They might as well enjoy it now and for the next season or two if he produces.

Jjav829
02-06-2005, 11:43 PM
I'll never understand ballplayers...why would you rather play for the Tigers when they'll only pay you a few million dollars extra over a decent team with a chance?

It's really not that hard to understand. He didn't have both offers in hand and choose the Tigers. Maggs wanted to test free agency and see what he could get. He took a risk and wound up getting a good offer from a bad team, so he took the money. The decisions were made separate of each other. For all he knew at the time he was rejecting the Sox offer, a team like the Red Sox - who did try to trade for him - could have come calling with a much better offer. It's not like he said no to the Sox because he liked the Tigers offer better.

OEO Magglio
02-06-2005, 11:49 PM
I'll never understand ballplayers...why would you rather play for the Tigers when they'll only pay you a few million dollars extra over a decent team with a chance?
B-O-R-A-S.

Ol' No. 2
02-07-2005, 09:18 AM
It's probably a good signing for a team like the Tigers. What do they really have to lose, anyway? Worst case scenario, they only have him for one season at $12M, with his injury. They've created a late offseason buzz, sold a few more tickets & added a name player. Good for them. With a little luck, the guy will be healthy & they'll sniff 3rd place a few times over the next several seasons.

There was no way any team, that was serious about contending in 2005, was able to afford the risk involved with Ordonez. The money Boras was asking was one thing. Tying up a roster spot with a huge multi-million-dollar question mark, another.No, the worst case scenario is that he gimps through the season without spending 25 days on the DL, then has to have surgery again and his career is over. They will have paid $75M for one season. Almost as bad would be for him to not be the same ballplayer again, but still not be injured enough to go on the DL. There are lots of ways for the Tigers to get screwed on this deal. In the BEST case scenario they overpaid for someone who probably wasn't worth $75M when he was healthy. Dumbrowski will come to regret this.

Flight #24
02-07-2005, 09:41 AM
No, the worst case scenario is that he gimps through the season without spending 25 days on the DL, then has to have surgery again and his career is over. They will have paid $75M for one season. Almost as bad would be for him to not be the same ballplayer again, but still not be injured enough to go on the DL. There are lots of ways for the Tigers to get screwed on this deal. In the BEST case scenario they overpaid for someone who probably wasn't worth $75M when he was healthy. Dumbrowski will come to regret this.

Whaddaya you want to bet that Maggs has already lined up his supplies of cortisone, morphine, and other such substances to make sure that he can limp through the season?

I can see it now - every so often, Maggs looks slow and grimaces as he moves, coinciding with a slump at the plate. But when the Tigers try to get their medical staff to examine him, he's conveniently unavailable. Sound familiar?

And if they DL him anyway he files a grievance with the union to get his $75mil.

slavko
02-07-2005, 11:36 AM
No, the worst case scenario is that he gimps through the season without spending 25 days on the DL, then has to have surgery again and his career is over. They will have paid $75M for one season. Almost as bad would be for him to not be the same ballplayer again, but still not be injured enough to go on the DL. There are lots of ways for the Tigers to get screwed on this deal. In the BEST case scenario they overpaid for someone who probably wasn't worth $75M when he was healthy. Dumbrowski will come to regret this.

I can envision a situation where X sues Y over being put on the DL. What makes it worse for the Tigers is that he can DH in the AL. They may be left with a gimpy DH with a 5 year monster contract.

gosox41
02-07-2005, 12:36 PM
[QUOTE=WinningUgly!]It's probably a good signing for a team like the Tigers. What do they really have to lose, anyway? Worst case scenario, they only have him for one season at $12M, with his injury. They've created a late offseason buzz, sold a few more tickets & added a name player. Good for them. With a little luck, the guy will be healthy & they'll sniff 3rd place a few times over the next several seasons.

QUOTE]


But if Magglio plays out all of 2005 the rest of his contract becomes guaranteed (as I understand it). So it's possible that Magglio can play through this season and experienece a deterioration in his knee over the next 4 years. He can be healthy enogh to play but may be forced to DH or move at PK speed around the bases.


Bob

jshanahanjr
02-07-2005, 01:17 PM
I hope Maggs does well. The Tigers will be a decent ball club if Maggs can be the player of old. Pudge, Maggs, and Young make up a pretty potent heart of the order. I'm just happy he didn't sign with the Cubs, that would have killed me.

mantis1212
02-07-2005, 01:28 PM
I can envision a situation where X sues Y over being put on the DL. What makes it worse for the Tigers is that he can DH in the AL. They may be left with a gimpy DH with a 5 year monster contract.

Totally- this type of contract changes a player's priorities. Maggs priority over everything else (winning, staying healthy for 06-09, hitting .300, etc) is too STAY OFF THAT DL in 2005. If he fakes his way through 2005 and ends up in worse shape next offseason, the Tigers are F****D.

Foulke You
02-07-2005, 02:28 PM
I hope Maggs does well. The Tigers will be a decent ball club if Maggs can be the player of old. Pudge, Maggs, and Young make up a pretty potent heart of the order. I'm just happy he didn't sign with the Cubs, that would have killed me.

Yeah, I don't think I could have stomached the giddy Chicago media if the Flubs would have signed Maggs. Plus, vomit would have spewed from my mouth the first time I heard "O-E-O Magglio" eminating from the maw of hell (Wrigley).

However, on the flipside, should Maggs be healthy, he could be beating up on Sox pitching 19 times a year which is also not good considering we've had our share of trouble against the Tigers the past few seasons. It was a lose/lose scenario but I'm happy it is over and we can concentrate on the coming 2005 season. It will be weird seeing Maggs in a Tigers uniform but that is the way it goes. Maggs gave us 7 great seasons and I'll always have fond memories of him as a player and wish him luck when he isn't playing us.

It's funny, if you would have told me that we would lose Carlos Lee and Magglio Ordonez coming into the 2005 season and I would be very EXCITED about our team's chances, I wouldn't have believed it. It is truly a testament to KW's offseason work.

jackbrohamer
02-07-2005, 02:46 PM
Detroit looks like they are going to be the Central's version of the Baltimore Orioles by signing random players for far greater than market value.

spawn
02-07-2005, 03:04 PM
My God...I was checking out the reaction to the press conference on one of the Tiger's message boards...it seems most of them bought what Boras told them. Wow. Check it out. Kinda boring at first:

http://www.motownsports.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24892&perpage=40&pagenumber=1

Ol' No. 2
02-07-2005, 03:11 PM
My God...I was checking out the reaction to the press conference on one of the Tiger's message boards...it seems most of them bought what Boras told them. Wow. Check it out. Kinda boring at first:

http://www.motownsports.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24892&perpage=40&pagenumber=1 Maggs says he's glad he doesn't have to hit against us anymore. :rolling::rolling::rolling::rolling:

Who was he scared of, Gary (Don) Knotts or Jason Johnson?

spawn
02-07-2005, 03:13 PM
Here's one smart Tiger's fan. Found it in a different thread:



Wow...ESPNews just said that only Carlos Beltran's deal was bigger than Magglio's. That's a little unsettling.



Be afraid...be very afraid...

PaleHoseGeorge
02-07-2005, 03:13 PM
Maggs says he's glad he doesn't have to hit against us anymore.
Who was he scared of, Gary (Don) Knotts or Jason Johnson?

:jerry
"Now you know why I had to let Cotts pitch in Yankee Stadium. Maggs was crapping his pants about the upcoming Detroit series."

:cool:

Chisox003
02-07-2005, 03:13 PM
"I for some reason feel more comfortable about his knee now. Either it made sense or they put the whammy on me..."--Tigers Fan on their message board

Im willing to bet the latter....At least they still have hope...

Have fun being on a 4th place team for the rest of your career Mags!! :gulp:

Jjav829
02-07-2005, 03:15 PM
Actually, there seem to be quite a few realists there.



When Boras basically blamed the White Sox medical staff for Magglio's edema, I was satisfied...


...not.


Our redident injury/surgery guru medic seemed to think it was a bigger deal. To be fair medic doesn't have any insider knowledge of Magglio's procedures and is just speaking in generalities, but I'd say the Tigs have more reason to paint a rosy picture than medic has to paint a bleaker then reality one.

But then you have those that are taking everything Boras says hook, line and sinker.

...the edema was the result of the doctors not having seen the original tear. Once they found it, they treated it. This is NOT a rare procedure.

I for some reason feel more comfortable about his knee now. Either it made sense or they put the whammy on me...

Noo. I feel much better across the board. You go, DD

Ol' No. 2
02-07-2005, 03:23 PM
Actually, there seem to be quite a few realists there.


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But then you have those that are taking everything Boras says hook, line and sinker.I just heard they're sending out for more Kool-Aide.:gulp:

Baby Fisk
02-07-2005, 03:35 PM
Reading some of those Tiger posters really puts things in perspective.

from the ridiculous...

quote: If Ordonez stays healthy and the Tigers make the playoffs this year, it is worth every penny. If he stays healthy and the Tigers win 79-83 games (which is where I project them at with a healthy ORdonez, for what it's worth) then the deal is almost certainly a bad one.


to the realistic...

We are trying to build a team. We won less than 40 games two years ago. We may have been the worst team ever. A .500 team next year would be a monumental success. Our payroll will still be in the middle of the pack. A .500 record with a middle of the pack payroll two seasons removed from the sub 40 win season could almost be classified as totally unbelievable.

DD has done a great job.

jackbrohamer
02-07-2005, 03:42 PM
:jerry
"Now you know why I had to let Cotts pitch in Yankee Stadium. Maggs was crapping his pants about the upcoming Detroit series."

:cool:

I still can't believe this moron managed the Sox to 11-8 against the mighty tigers on their way to 119 losses in 2003. GAFM what a nightmare that guy was

spawn
02-07-2005, 07:03 PM
Looking at that Tigers fan site, I realized something. Most are talking about how good their lineup is. And it is pretty solid. But I think they all forgot something. Mags will have to play defense. After 2 knee operations. In cavernous Comerica Park. For all the runs he drives in, he may give half of them back.

Unregistered
02-07-2005, 07:26 PM
But I think they all forgot something. Mags will have to play defense. After 2 knee operations. In cavernous Comerica Park. For all the runs he drives in, he may give half of them back. No he won't. He'll be a DH.
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=2476
"Sorry, running will cost another $3 million dollars a month."

spawn
02-08-2005, 09:58 AM
Does anyone want a good laugh?



http://www.motownsports.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24901

Someone is predicting the Tigers will win 92 game and the division. And they have plenty of love for the Sox. I didn't know signing Maggs would make that big of a difference!:roflmao:

MUsoxfan
02-08-2005, 11:13 AM
Crazy Tiger Koolaid Consumer:
I don't think there is any one great thing the White Sox but I still think they are a bit better than Detroit.

Added:
Pierzynski
Orlando Hernandez
Jermaine Dye
Scott Podsednik
Luis Vizcaino
Iguchi

Lost:
Carlos Lee
Schoenweis


I don't count Ordonez because they never really had him at all for last year anyways. The big difference I see is in the starting rotation.

Buehrle
Garcia
Garland
Contreras
Hernandez

A better rotation than Detroit gives them a slight edge.

I'm glad to see that we're a little better and have a slight edge

wdelaney72
02-08-2005, 12:35 PM
"Print the Playoff tickets".


LMAO.

OurBitchinMinny
02-08-2005, 01:59 PM
I'm just happy it's over. Just remember, Magglio thinks the White Sox organization is dedicated to losing, it will be funny to see how he feels finishing 3rd and 4th for the rest of the career. The best thing the Sox can do is win the division 5 years in a row.

White Sox Baseball: From Maggs to Riches

Tigers last world title: 1984.

White Sox: 1917

So despite being .500+ for most of the last decade, we have as many world titles as they do, so its not like we as sox fans can brag a lot
I would be ecstatic if I was a tigers fan.

gosox41
02-08-2005, 02:02 PM
I was just curious to see the other side of the deal, to see what tiger fans thought of the deal that ordonez got:

tiger fan board (http://www.motownsports.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=7)

most of them seem pretty excited over the deal they gave ordonez. now imo, this contract was overpaying on a massive scale. i mean, the tigers basically bidded the contract up against themselves- no one was offering anywhere NEAR a 5 year, possible 7 year contract. the most he was getting was a 2 year deal with a base around 6 or 7 mil with incentives escalating the contract up. they probably could have reeled him in with a 3/4 year deal with option years and a base starting at 7/8mil year progressing to 12 mil in the final year, with all of the protection they currently have. ordonez wasnt worth this much money before he got hurt, and he definitely isnt now. if he stays healthy, he'll be making 18mil/year when he's 37,38. i loved maggs, but to me, 12-18 mil a year for 30hr/100 rbi seems a bit much (hell dye and rowand have a shot at that and they're making 3.5 mil and 5.4 mil, respectively). i'm not sure the tigers are as dumb as the mets are in terms of overpaying for aged, injury prone ex stars, but this contract is ridiculous. thoughts?

Keep in mind it is Detroit. The auto show was in January. There's no hockey. The All Star game is 5 months away. What else is there to get excited about?


Bob

TheBull19
02-08-2005, 02:09 PM
Another bit of Tigger fan genius -

"games count double in August and September."

SoxEd
02-08-2005, 05:09 PM
I'll never understand ballplayers...why would you rather play for the Tigers when they'll only pay you a few million dollars extra over a decent team with a chance?

Maybe, if you know you're knee's stuffed, and will only get worse from here on in, you'd be much happier to take a deal that allows you to play for a mediocre team for one year, and then sit on the DL for the next four and watch the cash roll in, than you would be to take a contract with your current employer who expects production year-in, year-out.

Maybe I'm just being cynical about it, maybe Maggs got tempted away from reason by the silver tongue of Bora$ and then had to take the only half-decent (EDIT: I meant to say "the only big money", who thinks $15mm pa is only 'half-decent'???) payday he was offered, and forget about the pennant.

I was really fond of him as a Sox player, and whilst I don't like him playing for a divisional rival, at least he signed for one who seemed to have some weird hoodoo over us already, rather than one we ordinarily beat up on.

Only time will tell whether he really is fit and healthy again, but I have to say he displayed a real lack of class with his comments about the Sox to the Trib.

Then again, it'd be what the Trib staffer wanted to hear anyway, in order to further the Corporate vendetta against the Chicago ball team they don't own.