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View Full Version : Dye or Burnitz? YOU MAKE THE CALL!


DrCrawdad
02-04-2005, 01:59 PM
Jermaine Dye OR Jeromy Burnitz? Which is the better RF, why? YOU MAKE THE CALL!

FightingBillini
02-04-2005, 02:05 PM
Yeah, that question ranks right up there with:

http://planetwill.jt.org/media/characters/art/ferrellcaray1.jpg
"Hey Professor, if you have the choice of being the greatest scientist in your field, or getting Mad Cow Disease, which would you pick?

HebrewHammer
02-04-2005, 02:06 PM
Yeah, that question ranks right up there with:

http://planetwill.jt.org/media/characters/art/ferrellcaray1.jpg
"Hey Professor, if you have the choice of being the greatest scientist in your field, or getting Mad Cow Disease, which would you pick?

"Being the top scientist in my field of course."

FightingBillini
02-04-2005, 02:07 PM
"Being the top scientist in my field of course."
http://planetwill.jt.org/media/characters/art/ferrellcaray1.jpg
"Good, I was scared you were gonna pick Mad Cow."

Chisox003
02-04-2005, 02:22 PM
I think this poll has the possibilty of throwing a rare shutout....

Jermaine by a landslide....

Baby Fisk
02-04-2005, 03:38 PM
:DJ
*sniff sniff*
"Hey Hawk, you smell something funny?"

:hawk
"My momentous proboscis is detecting the distinct aroma of troll..."

SoxFan76
02-04-2005, 03:40 PM
For the sake of conversation, and for the fact that I'm curious, why is Dye better? First of all, I don't know how Burnitz is as a fielder, but apparently Dye is one of the best in the biz. (At least according to MVP Baseball 2004 :wink:)

Dye has the capability of being a legitimate middle of the order hitter, but injuries have been an issue the past few years.

We all know Burnitz strikes out a lot, and from what I hear he hit Paul Konerko-like away from the home stadium. What else do we know on this guy?

DarinErstad
02-04-2005, 03:44 PM
Last 4 years

Dye: BA OBP SLG HR RBI OPS+

2001 .282 .346 .467 26 106 109
2002 .252 .333 .459 24 86 105
2003 .172 .261 .253 4 20 41
2004 .265 .329 .464 23 80 103


Burnitz: BA OBP SLG HR RBI OPS+

2001 .251 .347 .504 34 100 116
2002 .215 .311 .365 19 54 83
2003 .239 .299 .487 31 77 104
2004 .283 .356 .559 37 110 115



How does Dye win in a landslide? It's pretty obvious Burnitz has put up better numbers the last 4 years. Neither is much more than an average hitter, but Burnitz has the edge.

Baby Fisk
02-04-2005, 03:55 PM
How does Dye win in a landslide? It's pretty obvious Burnitz has put up better numbers the last 4 years. Neither is much more than an average hitter, but Burnitz has the edge.

:DJ*exchanging puzzled glances*:hawk

rdivaldi
02-04-2005, 03:57 PM
Last 4 years

Dye: BA OBP SLG HR RBI OPS+

2001 .282 .346 .467 26 106 109
2002 .252 .333 .459 24 86 105
2003 .172 .261 .253 4 20 41
2004 .265 .329 .464 23 80 103


Burnitz: BA OBP SLG HR RBI OPS+

2001 .251 .347 .504 34 100 116
2002 .215 .311 .365 19 54 83
2003 .239 .299 .487 31 77 104
2004 .283 .356 .559 37 110 115



How does Dye win in a landslide? It's pretty obvious Burnitz has put up better numbers the last 4 years. Neither is much more than an average hitter, but Burnitz has the edge.

Aren't you conveniently missing the facts that Burnitz hit in Coors Field last year, and Dye suffered 2 freak injuries that hampered his production?

DarinErstad
02-04-2005, 04:04 PM
the OPS+ factors in the park they played in. I only remember 1 injury Dye suffered. The broken leg in the 2002 playoffs I believe.

Jabroni
02-04-2005, 04:05 PM
the OPS+ factors in the park they played in. I only remember 1 injury Dye suffered. The broken leg in the 2002 playoffs I believe.Dye was batting with a broken thumb for much of last season.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cws/news/cws_news.jsp?ymd=20050103&content_id=926933&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jspHealth issues ultimately could separate Dye from success and failure. The soon-to-be 31-year-old battled a broken left thumb last August, a separated shoulder and knee injury in 2003 and broke his leg in the 2001 playoffs on a much publicized foul ball. Dye hit .252 in 2002, .265 with 80 RBIs in 2004 and only .172 over 221 at-bats in 2003.

MUsoxfan
02-04-2005, 04:09 PM
The best part about having Dye on the Sox is that he won't absolutely kill us singlehandedly when we travel to Oakland

DarinErstad
02-04-2005, 04:14 PM
He actually hit better after suffering the broken thumb. Even if you throw out the injury plagued 2003, Burnitz has still put up better numbers 2 out of the other 3 years. Like I said before, neither player will be mistaken for Vlad Guerrero. They are both average players.

Jabroni
02-04-2005, 04:15 PM
The best part about having Dye on the Sox is that he won't absolutely kill us singlehandedly when we travel to OaklandYep, Dye has always killed us...

Jermaine Dye (http://bigleaguers.yahoo.com/mlbpa/players/5610/splits?year=career&type=Batting) (Career vs. White Sox)
225 AB
.298 AVG
.355 OBP
.560 SLG
.915 OPS
15 HR
44 RBI

That's sick.

Jabroni
02-04-2005, 04:16 PM
He actually hit better after suffering the broken thumb. Even if you throw out the injury plagued 2003, Burnitz has still put up better numbers 2 out of the other 3 years. Like I said before, neither player will be mistaken for Vlad Guerrero. They are both average players.Even Cubs fans would take Dye over Burnitz. They are not pleased with the Burnitz signing at all.

rdivaldi
02-04-2005, 04:16 PM
the OPS+ factors in the park they played in.

Ah, you're right. My bad.

DarinErstad
02-04-2005, 04:21 PM
Even Cubs fans would take Dye over Burnitz. They are not pleased with the Burnitz signing at all.


Not a great signing, but after trading Sosa, there weren't many viable options left, unless you want to overpay for a player with a seriously injured knee or use both DuBois and Hollandsworth in the same outfield. That's just bad.

Jabroni
02-04-2005, 04:29 PM
Not a great signing, but after trading Sosa, there weren't many viable options left, unless you want to overpay for a player with a seriously injured knee or use both DuBois and Hollandsworth in the same outfield. That's just bad.Most Cubs fans who are actually "in the know" about their prospects would rather have Dubois starting in LF and Hairston/Hollandsworth starting in RF. They would rather not have wasted $5 million on Burnitz and instead, would have used that money towards a closer.

Ol' No. 2
02-04-2005, 04:31 PM
Catherine Zeta-Jones or Rosanne Barr. You make the call.

maurice
02-04-2005, 04:33 PM
A healthy Dye > a healthy Burnitz.

Healthy Dye = .260-.320 AVE, 25-35 HR, cannon in RF, excellent defense
Healthy Burnitz = .215-.280 AVE, 25-40 HR, adequate defense

Burnitz is older (turning 36) and coming off of a career year in Coors. He should be significantly worse than his 2004 numbers indicate.
Dye (31) is moving from the Coliseum to Coors East. Unless he gets injured again, he should be at least a little bit better than his 2004 numbers indicate.

DarinErstad
02-04-2005, 04:35 PM
Most Cubs fans who are actually "in the know" about their prospects would rather have Dubois starting in LF and Hairston/Hollandsworth starting in RF. They would rather not have wasted $5 million on Burnitz and instead, would have used that money towards a closer.

DuBois is a solid prospect, but who knows what he'll do at the major league level? Hollandsworth is much more valuable off the bench and Hairston just doesn't give enough production to play a corner OF position. Not to mention Hollandsworth and Hairston being injury prone. Imagine if they went down, the Cubs would be starting Jose Macias in the OF. :o:

Jabroni
02-04-2005, 04:38 PM
DuBois is a solid prospect, but who knows what he'll do at the major league level? Hollandsworth is much more valuable off the bench and Hairston just doesn't give enough production to play a corner OF position. Not to mention Hollandsworth and Hairston being injury prone. Imagine if they went down, the Cubs would be starting Jose Macias in the OF. :o:Most Cubs fans "in the know" from what I have read would've rather see what Dubois can do at the major league level than watch a has-been like Burnitz hack away all season. Either way, Hairston or Hollandsworth is starting in LF.

Gosox1917
02-04-2005, 04:57 PM
I can see Dye having a great season here at Coors East, meanwhile Burnitz pulls a Jay Payton and struggles most of this season. Either way you look at the offensive numbers, Dye wins with his defense.

santo=dorf
02-04-2005, 05:12 PM
DuBois is a solid prospect, but who knows what he'll do at the major league level? Hollandsworth is much more valuable off the bench and Hairston just doesn't give enough production to play a corner OF position. Not to mention Hollandsworth and Hairston being injury prone. Imagine if they went down, the Cubs would be starting Jose Macias in the OF. :o:

What would be wrong with that?

SOXSINCE'70
02-04-2005, 05:14 PM
My guy is Jermaine Dye!!:bandance: :bandance: :bandance:

DrCrawdad
02-04-2005, 07:04 PM
The two who chose Burnitz registered today. Both are likely Cubs fans.

:dtroll: :dtroll:

Cowhead418
02-04-2005, 07:05 PM
If the few people on here who honestly think Burnitz is better than Dye, why wasn't any Sox fans complaining that KW had signed Dye instead of the MVP-bound Burnitz?:?:

ChiWhiteSox1337
02-04-2005, 07:27 PM
Dye by a landslide. I was thinking about this a few days ago, the cubs waited way too long to trade Sosa and sign an FA. Not that I care that the cubs had to select from sloppy 152nds. :D: Burnitz getting that much money from the cubs makes Jermaine Dye one of the biggest steals this offseason. Funny how one of the members who voted for Burnitz has posted(and DEFENDED) the cubs in all the posts he's made. Coincidence?

DrCrawdad
02-04-2005, 11:21 PM
Dye by a landslide. I was thinking about this a few days ago, the cubs waited way too long to trade Sosa and sign an FA. Not that I care that the cubs had to select from sloppy 152nds. :D: Burnitz getting that much money from the cubs makes Jermaine Dye one of the biggest steals this offseason. Funny how one of the members who voted for Burnitz has posted(and DEFENDED) the cubs in all the posts he's made. Coincidence?

I was listening to Mike Murphy tonight as I finished up a bit of work. Murph had John Dejuan (sp?), who if you don't know is a stats guy, on tonight. John was not comparing Dye to Burnitz but what he said about Burnitz was interesting.

Take note those who voted for Burnitz:

Offensively, Dejuan ranked Burnitz as the fourth best Cub outfielder, behind Dubois, Hollandsworth and Patterson. For those who point to Burnitz stats from last year, beware the Coors Field Factor. If you take out Burnitz stats from Coors Field, from his record of the last three years Burnitz hit .233 with 25 HR.

Vsahajpal
02-05-2005, 03:38 AM
They're pretty even, actually.

Jabroni
02-05-2005, 04:37 AM
They're pretty even, actually.Even the Cubune disagrees with you...

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cs-050203crosstown,1,5724901.story?coll=cs-home-headlines&ctrack=1&cset=trueRight field

Well, we have seen Jermaine Dye and Jeromy Burnitz play and can say safely that neither is Magglio Ordonez or Sammy Sosa. Both have been around and come with huge question marks about how much offense they can contribute. It helps that the Cubs have retained Hollandsworth as a just-in-case.

Edge: White Sox.:rolleyes:

Vsahajpal
02-05-2005, 06:26 AM
oh sh%#, let me change my opinion quickly!:rolleyes:

Jabroni
02-05-2005, 06:30 AM
oh sh%#, let me change my opinion quickly!:rolleyes:I just thought that it was kind of funny that even the Cubune disagrees with you and they are supposed to promote Cubdom and its superiority. By the way, even Cubs fans would rather have Dye instead of Burnitz.

Vsahajpal
02-05-2005, 06:36 AM
Perhaps Dave Van Dyck disagrees with me, his editor too. I'm not too bothered about it.

Jabroni
02-05-2005, 06:37 AM
Perhaps Dave Van Dyck disagrees with me, his editor too. I'm not too bothered about it.Don't forget any intelligent and rational Cubs fan who knows that Dye is better than Burnitz. I've actually looked at some Cubs' sites (NSBB) to see their reaction on the Burnitz signing and most of them are pissed about it. They are wondering why Hendry didn't just sign a guy like Jermaine Dye or Richard Hidalgo to play RF. Don't let Burnitz' Coors numbers fool you. He will be sure to replace Sham-Me's strikeouts. He even admitted to it in this quote...

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-050202cubssosatrade,1,6189453.story?coll=cs-cubs-headlines&ctrack=2&cset=true"I think it all is going to revolve around what we do as a team. Of course the fans are going to love me. They don't even care if you strike out if the team's winning. And that's basically the attitude I'm going to have. If the team's doing well, let's face it, the fans are going to love me and probably every other guy on the squad, more than they already do.":)

fquaye149
02-05-2005, 06:43 AM
Perhaps Dave Van Dyck disagrees with me, his editor too. I'm not too bothered about it.

I think the point is even all the cubbie kool-aid in the world can't spin it so Dye is worse than Burnitz.

Is Royce the choice a better hitter than, well, anyone?

Burnitz had a few slugging years in milwaukee (right around the prime of a career) and has fallen sharply off since. His home-road splits were schizphrenic last year: .322 BA at home .244 on the road. 24 HR at home. 13 on the road.

At least he walks a lot...but so does Dye.

Pending injuries (which there's really no reason to assume will effect either) Dye is the logical choice

Vsahajpal
02-05-2005, 06:56 AM
Don't forget any intelligent and rational Cubs fan who knows that Dye is better than Burnitz. I've actually looked at some Cubs' sites (NSBB) to see their reaction on the Burnitz signing and most of them are pissed about it. They are wondering why Hendry didn't just sign a guy like Jermaine Dye or Richard Hidalgo to play RF. Don't let Burnitz' Coors numbers fool you. He will be sure to replace Sham-Me's strikeouts. He even admitted to it in this quote...

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-050202cubssosatrade,1,6189453.story?coll=cs-cubs-headlines&ctrack=2&cset=true:)

Well, Dye would've done that too, he did manage to strike out more than Burnitz last season, while walking less.

Vsahajpal
02-05-2005, 06:59 AM
I think the point is even all the cubbie kool-aid in the world can't spin it so Dye is worse than Burnitz.

Is Royce the choice a better hitter than, well, anyone?

Burnitz had a few slugging years in milwaukee (right around the prime of a career) and has fallen sharply off since. His home-road splits were schizphrenic last year: .322 BA at home .244 on the road. 24 HR at home. 13 on the road.

At least he walks a lot...but so does Dye.

Pending injuries (which there's really no reason to assume will effect either) Dye is the logical choice

I don't recall saying Dye is worse, I said they're pretty well even.

I don't know what Royce Clayton has to do with this argument.

Sub Dye for Burnitz, and KC with Milwaukee, and you'll end up at the same location.

No, Dye doesn't walk a lot, neither does Burnitz anymore.

I wouldn't assume that Dye will go injury free.

Jabroni
02-05-2005, 06:59 AM
Well, Dye would've done that too, he did manage to strike out more than Burnitz last season, while walking less.I sincerely hope it didn't have anything to do with that broken left thumb he was playing with. :rolleyes:

Vsahajpal
02-05-2005, 07:04 AM
Well, he's always been a moderately high strikeout guy, not that I care. An out is an out.

Jabroni
02-05-2005, 07:12 AM
I don't recall saying Dye is worse, I said they're pretty well even.

I don't know what Royce Clayton has to do with this argument.

Sub Dye for Burnitz, and KC with Milwaukee, and you'll end up at the same location.

No, Dye doesn't walk a lot, neither does Burnitz anymore.

I wouldn't assume that Dye will go injury free.It's quite obvious by your posts and your profile that you are a Cubs fan and you are trying to make yourself feel better about Hendry's horrible signing of Jeromy Burnitz. I hope you feel the same way when he is striking out as much as Sham-Me but not putting up the homers. You will be disappointed when Burnitz does not match his deceiving Coors numbers of last season.

fquaye149
02-05-2005, 07:18 AM
I don't recall saying Dye is worse, I said they're pretty well even.

I don't know what Royce Clayton has to do with this argument.

Sub Dye for Burnitz, and KC with Milwaukee, and you'll end up at the same location.

No, Dye doesn't walk a lot, neither does Burnitz anymore.

I wouldn't assume that Dye will go injury free.

point by point:

1.) you gave the nod to burnitz. if one is better, the other is worse. i didn't just pluck this from the aether.

2.) Royce Clayton is another player who's had 2 or more horrible offensive years in a row who went to Coors and put up outlying numbers that would "seem" to indicate him a better player than he is.

3.) Except Dye is the age right now that Burnitz was in Milwaukee - in the heart of the prime of one's career.

4.) Dye and Burnitz both walk a good amount. I'll take 50+ walks a year.

5.) I wouldn't assume ANYONE will go injury free. Unless you honestly think someone is "Accident Prone" I don't know why Dye is any more likely to get injured than anyone who hasn't had past problems. None of his injuries seem to be chronic, all have been unrelated. Just misfortune...although as a Cub fan I suppose you are more likely to believe in hocus pocus and "bad luck." (just kidding)

Jabroni
02-05-2005, 07:22 AM
Since Burnitz' 2004 season was largely an effect of Coors, take a look at his 2003 season...

Jeromy Burnitz (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?statsId=5061) (2003 stats)
464 AB
.239 AVG
.299 OBP
.487 SLG
.786 OPS
35 BB
112 SO

Putrid.

Vsahajpal
02-05-2005, 07:25 AM
It's quite obvious by your posts and your profile that you are a Cubs fan and you are trying to make yourself feel better about Hendry's horrible signing of Jeromy Burnitz. I hope you feel the same way when he is striking out as much as Sham-Me but not putting up the homers. You will be disappointed when Burnitz does not match his deceiving Coors numbers of last season.

Yes, I'm a Cubs fan. You're quite the sleuth, eh? Shocking that you've been banned or suspended from so many forums with your undeniable logic. Am I trying to make myself feel better about Hendry's 'horrible signing of Jeromy Burnitz?' No, not really. Dye could be a Mariner and Burnitz a Marlin, and I'd still come to the same conclusion; they're basically even. Certainly Burnitz will strike out a lot, but he won't stop hitting home runs. No, I won't be disappointed if Burnitz doesn't match his Coors #'s of last season, I don't expect him to have a 1.075 OPS. However, last time I checked, the average hitter at Coors isn't putting up a 1.075 OPS.

Jabroni
02-05-2005, 07:31 AM
Yes, I'm a Cubs fan. You're quite the sleuth, eh? Shocking that you've been banned or suspended from so many forums with your undeniable logic. Am I trying to make myself feel better about Hendry's 'horrible signing of Jeromy Burnitz?' No, not really. Dye could be a Mariner and Burnitz a Marlin, and I'd still come to the same conclusion; they're basically even. Certainly Burnitz will strike out a lot, but he won't stop hitting home runs. No, I won't be disappointed if Burnitz doesn't match his Coors #'s of last season, I don't expect him to have a 1.075 OPS. However, last time I checked, the average hitter at Coors isn't putting up a 1.075 OPS.So you've been happy with the Cubs offseason? Incase you've forgotten, here's a recap...

Cubs lose:
Moises Alou
Matt Clement
Kent Mercker
Sammy Sosa

Cubs get:
Henry Blanco
Jeromy Burnitz
Jerry Hairston Jr.
Stephen Randolph

Worst... offseason... EVER!!! :tongue:

By the way, what's your name at NSBB?

Vsahajpal
02-05-2005, 07:37 AM
point by point:

1.) you gave the nod to burnitz. if one is better, the other is worse. i didn't just pluck this from the aether.

2.) Royce Clayton is another player who's had 2 or more horrible offensive years in a row who went to Coors and put up outlying numbers that would "seem" to indicate him a better player than he is.

3.) Except Dye is the age right now that Burnitz was in Milwaukee - in the heart of the prime of one's career.

4.) Dye and Burnitz both walk a good amount. I'll take 50+ walks a year.

5.) I wouldn't assume ANYONE will go injury free. Unless you honestly think someone is "Accident Prone" I don't know why Dye is any more likely to get injured than anyone who hasn't had past problems. None of his injuries seem to be chronic, all have been unrelated. Just misfortune...although as a Cub fan I suppose you are more likely to believe in hocus pocus and "bad luck." (just kidding)


1). No, I didn't give the nod to Burnitz. I said they're pretty well even.

2). Burnitz career OPS+ (park adjusted) is 115; his OPS+ at Coors last year was...115. 115:115, I may need to consult with jabroni on this, but I don't believe those are outliers.

3). I think Burnitz peaked before 31; I don't expect Dye to throw up a .900 OPS season; if he does, feel free to call me out on it.

4). I suppose

5). Hocus Pocus, no. Bad luck, yes.:D:

pearso66
02-05-2005, 01:01 PM
I have to defend Vsahajpal. Most people here already know he's a cub fan, and he is knowledgable. Now anyone who has been here a while can tell you that. I myself do think that Dye is better, but isn't he allowed to have his own opinion?

santo=dorf
02-05-2005, 01:13 PM
Does anyone think Dye will be unable to post a 115 OPS+ playing at USCF? :?:

DrCrawdad
02-05-2005, 01:26 PM
I have to defend Vsahajpal. Most people here already know he's a cub fan, and he is knowledgable. Now anyone who has been here a while can tell you that. I myself do think that Dye is better, but isn't he allowed to have his own opinion?

HERE! HERE!

I'd take Dye, and I think that if at this point the Cubs had a choice between Dye or Burnitz the Cubs would choose Dye too. Burnitz will be popular on the Cubs though. He'll have his softball homerun games but a low BA and a number of whiffs will wear on Cub fans.

As I posted earlier, John Dejuan ranks Burnitz as the Cubs fourth best outfielder. Burnitz' numbers last season reek of the Coors Field Effect. The perception of Wrigley as a hitters park are wrong. If Burnitz' stats were low playing in LA, well expect them to be around that next season.

I'd take Dye over Burnitz, not by a large margin but still. We'll see 'round the AS break how each player is doing.

SoxFan76
02-05-2005, 02:19 PM
Yeah Jabroni, I'm going to have to side with Vsahajpal. He is a Cub fan, but he's a respected poster here. As you can see, he's been here since 2001. He never said Burnitz was better than Dye. I think Dye is better hands down, but sometimes you got to respect a man's opinion.

Vsahajpal
02-05-2005, 02:38 PM
HERE! HERE!

I'd take Dye, and I think that if at this point the Cubs had a choice between Dye or Burnitz the Cubs would choose Dye too. Burnitz will be popular on the Cubs though. He'll have his softball homerun games but a low BA and a number of whiffs will wear on Cub fans.

As I posted earlier, John Dejuan ranks Burnitz as the Cubs fourth best outfielder. Burnitz' numbers last season reek of the Coors Field Effect. The perception of Wrigley as a hitters park are wrong. If Burnitz' stats were low playing in LA, well expect them to be around that next season.

I'd take Dye over Burnitz, not by a large margin but still. We'll see 'round the AS break how each player is doing.

I agree with John, but Baker was never going to give Dubois a fair shot. It's a shame, because Dubois would likely put up big numbers if given the chance. Instead, they're giving Burnitz $5 MM. Yay.

DrCrawdad
02-05-2005, 02:50 PM
I agree with John, but Baker was never going to give Dubois a fair shot. It's a shame, because Dubois would likely put up big numbers if given the chance. Instead, they're giving Burnitz $5 MM. Yay.

According to John Dejuan (sp?), Dubois projects to do well in MLB. Regarding the Sox outfield that I wish the Sox had for '05 is Rowand-Reed-Lee. I'm glad the Sox have Garcia, but I wish they had not dealt Reed.

Vsahajpal
02-05-2005, 02:58 PM
Well, considering the money guys like Jon Lieber and Eric Milton got, the Garcia deal and subsequent extension look to be good business (especially in light of Rowand's emergence).

Even the Lee deal isn't bad if Vizcaino figures it out; somebody is going to overpay big time when he hits FA. I wouldn't be surprised if it was us.

Vsahajpal
02-05-2005, 03:00 PM
For the record, it is John Dewan.

http://www.baseballinfosolutions.com/images/john_dewan.jpg

FarWestChicago
02-05-2005, 03:03 PM
Yeah Jabroni, I'm going to have to side with Vsahajpal. He is a Cub fan, but he's a respected poster here. As you can see, he's been here since 2001. He never said Burnitz was better than Dye. I think Dye is better hands down, but sometimes you got to respect a man's opinion.You are right. Vic has been around a long time and is a highly respected poster. He is certainly entitled to his opinion.

Jabroni
02-05-2005, 03:04 PM
I could see Jason Dubois (great minor league numbers (http://www.sports-wired.com/profiles/DU/tbc5178.asp)) outperforming Burnitz but that really doesn't matter because he is never going to see the field with Dusty "I love veterans" Baker as the Cubs' manager.

OEO Magglio
02-05-2005, 03:17 PM
I agree with John, but Baker was never going to give Dubois a fair shot. It's a shame, because Dubois would likely put up big numbers if given the chance. Instead, they're giving Burnitz $5 MM. Yay.
Vic, I respect your opinion but I disagree with you and I'm not going to change your opinion either so we'll agree to disagree here. Anyways, my question is what kind of numbers do you think Dubois is capable of putting up and taking the 5 mill out of the equation would you like to see him get a chance instead of Burnitz?

Vsahajpal
02-05-2005, 03:39 PM
Vic, I respect your opinion but I disagree with you and I'm not going to change your opinion either so we'll agree to disagree here. Anyways, my question is what kind of numbers do you think Dubois is capable of putting up and taking the 5 mill out of the equation would you like to see him get a chance instead of Burnitz?

With what opinion? That Burnitz and Dye are comparable? That's totally fine, I will not be surprised if Dye outclasses Burnitz this year. I'm just going by the numbers.

Dubois reminds me of Jason Bay, I don't think he'll put up a .900 OPS his first season, but he'll hit for decent average, with tremendous XBH power, and he'll draw some walks too. He will K at least as much as Bay, likely more.

Heck yes I'd like to see him get a chance instead of Burnitz.

Vsahajpal
02-05-2005, 03:39 PM
You are right. Vic has been around a long time and is a highly respected poster. He is certainly entitled to his opinion.

Thanks, FWC. Check's in the mail...well, e-mail.

Jabroni
02-05-2005, 04:08 PM
Vic, I respect your opinion but I disagree with you and I'm not going to change your opinion either so we'll agree to disagree here. Anyways, my question is what kind of numbers do you think Dubois is capable of putting up and taking the 5 mill out of the equation would you like to see him get a chance instead of Burnitz?I think they should have just stuck with Dubois instead of signing Burnitz. If Dubois put up:

.260 AVG
.330 OBP
20 HR
60 RBI

They would have been better off spending Burnitz' $5 million on a closer. Fixing that bullpen was more important than adding an over-the-hill RF'er. Ryan Dempster could be LaTroy Hawkins Part 2. The scary thing is that Dusty may stick with Hawkins as his closer again. :o: When will Dusty realize that Hawkins is great in the 8th but horrible in the 9th?

Ol' No. 2
02-05-2005, 05:02 PM
According to John Dejuan (sp?), Dubois projects to do well in MLB. Regarding the Sox outfield that I wish the Sox had for '05 is Rowand-Reed-Lee. I'm glad the Sox have Garcia, but I wish they had not dealt Reed.Just for the record, how did John Dewan project Joe Borchard to do in the majors before last year?

DrCrawdad
02-05-2005, 05:15 PM
Just for the record, how did John Dewan project Joe Borchard to do in the majors before last year?

Is that rhetorical? I don't know the answer. I'd be interested to hear it though.

From what I understand, Dewan uses the minor league stats with some type of factor, reducing the stats. Supposedly the projections are pretty good.

I wonder how Dewan projected Wee Willie Harris to do. IIRC Willie had strong minor league stats.

Ol' No. 2
02-05-2005, 05:20 PM
Is that rhetorical? I don't know the answer. I'd be interested to hear it though.

From what I understand, Dewan uses the minor league stats with some type of factor, reducing the stats. Supposedly the projections are pretty good.

I wonder how Dewan projected Wee Willie Harris to do. IIRC Willie had strong minor league stats.I don't know the answer, but I'm taking bets it was better than .174.:(:

I've heard John Dewan when Murph and Fred were on in the mornings on WSCR. Some of the stuff he said was just unbelievable. Then I went and looked it up and found out they were unbelievable for a reason.