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View Full Version : Left Handed Relief Pitching Gonna Be Okay?


Realist
02-01-2005, 06:11 AM
While I've been loving taking a few pulls off the mason jar full of Kool-Aid that we've been passing around this off season, I'm a little concerned about how the situation is going to be with the White Sox left handed relievers. Right now all I see is Marte and Cotts. Is that gonna be enough or is there someone I'm missing?

hose
02-01-2005, 07:21 AM
The Sox picked up Kevin Walker to add depth, he is a left handed reliever.

I don't know how Walker will pan out , but Marte probably wont have to used as often as has been in the last couple of seasons with the addition of Vizciano and Hermanson.

I think Marte will benefit from not being ran out there everyday . Cotts should be able fill his limited role adequately.

samram
02-01-2005, 08:50 AM
Yeah, I think Vizcaino had a lot of success against lefties last year, so he doesn't necessarily have to be pulled for Marte or Cotts if a lefty comes to the plate.

Jabroni
02-01-2005, 09:07 AM
It would be nice if both Iguchi and Willie have good starts in Spring Training so we could trade Willie for a solid lefty reliever.

Lip Man 1
02-01-2005, 11:59 AM
This could be a concern. Most teams try to have two guys they can go to. I think last year was an 'off' one for Marte since his motion is deceptive and he throws some power stuff but after him?

Wunsch is gone, all Cotts does is walk hitters... that is not a good recipe for a guy who is brought in specifically to retire certain lefties.

Kevin Walker? Your joking right?

This is an area that could be a needed July pickup.

Lip

mdep524
02-01-2005, 12:11 PM
Cotts is going to have a surprise strong season, I think he can pick up any slack left over in the 'pen.

mjharrison72
02-01-2005, 12:14 PM
This could be a concern. Most teams try to have two guys they can go to. I think last year was an 'off' one for Marte since his motion is deceptive and he throws some power stuff but after him?

Wunsch is gone, all Cotts does is walk hitters... that is not a good recipe for a guy who is brought in specifically to retire certain lefties.

Kevin Walker? Your joking right?

This is an area that could be a needed July pickup.

Lip
Hopefully we won't need a lefty specialist to come in night after night... I think Marte is more than adequate in real pressure situations, and Cotts will come along for, hopefully, less stressful situations.

OEO Magglio
02-01-2005, 12:16 PM
I'm sure the lefties in the pen to start the year will be Damaso and Cotts, however Vizcaino is like having another lefty in the pen, he's outstanding against left handed hitters.

mdep524
02-01-2005, 12:20 PM
Also, keep in mind the Sox seem to have pretty decent left handed relief pitching depth in the minors. Marte and Cotts are the go to guys, but beneath them you have Kevin Walker, Arnie Munoz, Ryan Meaux and Fabio Castro- all of whom could potentially have a break out season and force their way on to the roster.

Lip Man 1
02-01-2005, 12:23 PM
Mdep:

With respect...you mean like the cast of clowns the Sox have trotted out for the 5th starter position the past three years?

Also I'd be very nervous having to go with kids in the middle of what could be a pressure filled run for a divisional title in September.

Lip

OEO Magglio
02-01-2005, 12:25 PM
Mdep:

With respect...you mean like the cast of clowns the Sox have trotted out for the 5th starter position the past three years?

Also I'd be very nervous having to go with kids in the middle of what could be a pressure filled run for a divisional title in September.

Lip
Lip, we're going to have 1 "kid" in the pen this year and until he proves he can I highly doubt Neal gets trotted out there in pressure situations, like I said before having Vizcaino is like having an extra lefty in the pen.

mdep524
02-01-2005, 12:50 PM
Mdep:

With respect...you mean like the cast of clowns the Sox have trotted out for the 5th starter position the past three years?

Also I'd be very nervous having to go with kids in the middle of what could be a pressure filled run for a divisional title in September.

Lip
The 5th starter black hole was disastrous last year, but this is an entirely different situation. Plus, I know your feelings on minor leaguers, but you can't entirely dismiss their chances of success solely because others failed in a different situation. Some no-name lefty Mark Buehrle kid came up in Sox bullpen...in the 2000 division title season.

JB98
02-01-2005, 12:57 PM
If you look around baseball, I think you'll see that we're in better shape than a lot of clubs when it comes to left-handed relief pitching. Hell, last year the Yankees were counting on Felix Heredia, and the Red Sox had Alan Embree. And those are the big-spending clubs that can just buy whatever they want. Yeah, Cotts walks too many guys, but he's a young pitcher and hopefully he'll improve. Even if he doesn't, he's the 11th man on the pitching staff. If he's our biggest problem, I'd say we'll be OK.

At the very least, we have Marte, and he's better than most lefty relievers.

santo=dorf
02-01-2005, 12:57 PM
Don't listen to the pessimists, it'll be just fine.

White Sox Randy
02-01-2005, 01:08 PM
far better than most teams. This is actually a team strength. Marte is one of the best lefty set-up guys in the game and would be in high demand were he available. Also, as was previously stated, he will benefit greatly from the improved bullpen overall.

In addition, Cotts is a quality pitcher that gained a lot of experience last year.

Munoz is next in line and pitched very well after settling down in September.

SOXintheBURGH
02-01-2005, 01:11 PM
I dunno.. I tell myself that we have one of the top 5 bullpens in all of baseball, but I would rest a lot easier if we had one more addition.

santo=dorf
02-01-2005, 01:16 PM
I dunno.. I tell myself that we have one of the top 5 bullpens in all of baseball, but I would rest a lot easier if we had one more addition.
Our 40 man roster is full. If we carry 11 pitchers it will come down to Cotts and Adkins. How many bullpens have the depth we do?

OEO Magglio
02-01-2005, 01:29 PM
Our 40 man roster is full. If we carry 11 pitchers it will come down to Cotts and Adkins. How many bullpens have the depth we do?
Not many, I mean Cliff Politte is the 5th guy out of the pen, just think about that for a second. I have high hopes for Cotts and I wouldn't be surprised if he pitches very, very well this year, if he faulters we'll have guys like Adkins who atleast proved he's a decent bullpen arm, Munoz who has been great out of the pen in the minors and Diaz who last year pitched very well out of the pen. The sox have a ton of bullpen depth this year.

Lip Man 1
02-01-2005, 02:18 PM
White Sox Randy says: "In addition, Cotts is a quality pitcher that gained a lot of experience last year."

Well if you get past the number of walks and his ERA maybe he is!

Lip

SoxxoS
02-01-2005, 03:31 PM
I agree with Lip on this one. Cotts can't be trusted until proven otherwise. I actually think he might be better served in AAA and prove he can control the ball. This division is going to be tough to win, and we can't throw away games by trotting Cotts out there and walking people like it's going to run out of style. Same with Munoz.

Also, wasn't one of our right handed pitchers just as effective against lefties? I can't remember who, though.

OEO Magglio
02-01-2005, 03:36 PM
Just to get my point across with Vizcaino, lefties last year hit .163 against him with a .586 ops. Vizcaino is nasty on left handers.

mcfish
02-01-2005, 03:40 PM
Also, wasn't one of our right handed pitchers just as effective against lefties? I can't remember who, though.Mike Jackson was equally effective against lefties as he was against righties. Home run no matter who was in the batter's box.

Wimpy
02-01-2005, 06:16 PM
I do not wan't to see Cotts in there when the game is close. How many of his change-ups went out of the park last year?

JB98
02-01-2005, 06:22 PM
I agree with Lip on this one. Cotts can't be trusted until proven otherwise. I actually think he might be better served in AAA and prove he can control the ball. This division is going to be tough to win, and we can't throw away games by trotting Cotts out there and walking people like it's going to run out of style. Same with Munoz.

Also, wasn't one of our right handed pitchers just as effective against lefties? I can't remember who, though.

My guess is Cotts would be used in a lot of non-pressure situations, when the Sox are way ahead or behind. Again, I don't see the harm if he is the 11th man on the pitching staff. If he were the primary left-handed setup man, I'd be concerned. But we have Damaso for that, so I'm not worried.

Our bullpen should be infinitely better than last year. All we had was Shingo, Marte and sometimes Politte. Now, we have those three plus Hermanson and Vizcaino. We'll be fine.

:cool:

Mohoney
02-01-2005, 06:31 PM
Jeff Nelson might have been a nice signing, but I believe Seattle signed him to a minor-league deal.

SOX ADDICT '73
02-01-2005, 07:32 PM
Jeff Nelson might have been a nice signing, but I believe Seattle signed him to a minor-league deal.
Yeah, I think it's the Mariners' turn to have him for the start of this season. How long before he goes back to the Yankees?


Related to the topic of this thread, this is where I would've liked to have seen Scott Schoenweiss swallow his pride and accept a bullpen role with the Sox. Instead, he saw dollar signs and a starting job and went to the Jays. Sigh.

PAPChiSox729
02-01-2005, 07:33 PM
Jeff Nelson might have been a nice signing, but I believe Seattle signed him to a minor-league deal.

I really don't think he would have. We havew a surplus of righty relievers (Hermanson, Vizcaino, Politte, Takatsu). The lefties need to be addressed. I have more faith then most in Marte, but I am not sure that Cotts is ready for a major league bullpen. Jeff Nelson wouldn't have been worth it, to the Sox at least, even if the contract was the league minimum.

popilius
02-02-2005, 12:31 AM
far better than most teams. This is actually a team strength. Marte is one of the best lefty set-up guys in the game and would be in high demand were he available. Also, as was previously stated, he will benefit greatly from the improved bullpen overall.

In addition, Cotts is a quality pitcher that gained a lot of experience last year.

Munoz is next in line and pitched very well after settling down in September.

I agree. . . I mean, of course we'd love better left-handed pitching, but who wouldn't? Where are these pitchers? Also, every team in baseball complains about their bullpen, so having a solid one for just one year is special. . .

:gulp:

chisox06
02-02-2005, 01:05 AM
Considering most of this thread is focused on one liability in the bullpen, I would say were in good shape. Personally I think this bullpen's success will depend a lot on Shingo. It seems that teams that have one solid closer and not a closer by committee merry go round seem to perform much better over all. With the closer gettin it done, all the other relievers can fall into their specific roles which I think is important to their individual success. If Shingo falters, it could be trouble but that can be said with any bullpen that has a closer issue.

southpaw40
02-02-2005, 08:57 AM
I think the Sox took a good gamble by signing Kevin Walker. He is a power lefty, and if fully recovered from surgery, can be an effective lefty option out of the pen.

nccwsfan
02-02-2005, 10:32 AM
Don't listen to the pessimists, it'll be just fine.

Nothing that a July trade couldn't fix anyway (if it's even needed). Let's see how Cotts pans out first- he might surprise some on this board.

wdelaney72
02-02-2005, 01:35 PM
Let's keep in mind that Cotts isn't the primary LH specialist,it's Marte. Yes Marte struggled last year, but this is an entirely new and less pressure situation for him.

I agree that LH reliever is the biggest weakness of the pitching staff, but if that's all we have to worry about, I'll take it.

tacosalbarojas
02-02-2005, 01:40 PM
Related to the topic of this thread, this is where I would've liked to have seen Scott Schoenweiss swallow his pride and accept a bullpen role with the Sox. Instead, he saw dollar signs and a starting job and went to the Jays. Sigh. Good call. Too bad Schoney couldn't make the same one. He's going to learn the hard way. He'll be in middle relief or on the dl in Canada by mid-season anyhow. Don't taxes kill you in Canada anyway?

Ol' No. 2
02-02-2005, 01:43 PM
Good call. Too bad Schoney couldn't make the same one. He's going to learn the hard way. He'll be in middle relief or on the dl in Canada by mid-season anyhow. Don't taxes kill you in Canada anyway?It doesn't look like Schoeneweis is going to crack the rotation at all. Linky. (http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/tor/news/tor_news.jsp?ymd=20050201&content_id=937925&vkey=news_tor&fext=.jsp)

tacosalbarojas
02-02-2005, 01:52 PM
It doesn't look like Schoeneweis is going to crack the rotation at all. Linky. (http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/tor/news/tor_news.jsp?ymd=20050201&content_id=937925&vkey=news_tor&fext=.jsp) That's awesome! Dave Bush? Dave Bush? Wow. Message sent - any Duke History grad worth his salt should understand that.

surfdudes
02-03-2005, 03:32 PM
White Sox Randy says: "In addition, Cotts is a quality pitcher that gained a lot of experience last year."

Well if you get past the number of walks and his ERA maybe he is!

Lip


LOL! Very funny, in a sarcastic Chicagoan kind of way........
I agree with Lip on this one, Cotts scares the heck outta me, every time he is on the mound, until he proves otherwise. If Marte is as effective, then nobody will be concerned, If he's shaky, it will be a hole. With Hermanson and Viscaino, we are still light years ahead of the atrocity that was a bullpen that opened the season last year.......

MHOUSE
02-04-2005, 01:03 PM
We have Marte and Cotts. Together they should be able to eat the lefty innings. Walker and Munoz could fill in, but if it came to that I think we could easily go out and get a lefty at the deadline.

johnny_mostil
02-04-2005, 02:34 PM
Also, keep in mind the Sox seem to have pretty decent left handed relief pitching depth in the minors. Marte and Cotts are the go to guys, but beneath them you have Kevin Walker, Arnie Munoz, Ryan Meaux and Fabio Castro- all of whom could potentially have a break out season and force their way on to the roster.

But Guillen doesn't seem to be a Tony LaRussa "thrash the bullpen" disciple, which I find pretty refreshing. Personally I'd rather see the seventh-best pitcher in there than the twelfth even if he does throw with the "wrong" hand, and this one-out guy thing is probably counterproductive. You shouldn't have a #3 lefthander out of the pen -- unless he's better than the #4 righthander out of the pen... and especially if having that 12th pitcher means you don't have the flexibility to pinch hit on offense.

Wunsch didn't stick around last year partly because there's no role for a LOOGY in Ozzie's world. There's no room for Kevin Walker, either, unless somebody gets hurt.