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ChiSoxRowand
02-01-2005, 12:01 AM
Heard it while listening to the scoreboard update a little while ago. This is good because it probably means they won't be getting Maggs or Huff. Burnitz is pretty much a clone of Sammy, but worse. He isn't the bad clubhouse guy though.

NSSoxFan
02-01-2005, 12:06 AM
Oh, now I don't see how the sCrUBS can be overlooked as a favorite to win it all.

santo=dorf
02-01-2005, 12:11 AM
Hendry tried to trade for his fat ass back in 2003 when Patheticson went down. Take a look at Jeromy's road splits from last season;

.244/.327/.448 14HR, 67 SO in 78 games.

:gulp:

HebrewHammer
02-01-2005, 12:54 AM
:neener: :roflmao: :cheers:

Wow, Sammy Sosa and a ton of cash for Jerry Hairston Jr., Jeromy Burnitz, and two "prospects". I'm sure the Cards and 'Stros are quakin' in their boots.

DrCrawdad
02-01-2005, 01:18 AM
:neener: :roflmao: :cheers:

Wow, Sammy Sosa and a ton of cash for Jerry Hairston Jr., Jeromy Burnitz, and two "prospects". I'm sure the Cards and 'Stros are quakin' in their boots.

The following is one Cub fans opinion on the trade of Lee and the Sox loss of Magglio.

The Sox did this because Ozzie Guillen is an idiot.

Let me explain. Ozzie thinks that "speed and defense" wins games. Sure,
those things are important. But you also have to tailor your team to your
ballpark. Since the remodeling at the Cell, it has become a launching pad.
It had the 6th highest park factor for home runs last year of *ANY*
ballpark.

So what does Ozzie ask his GM to do? Get rid of one of his best home run
hitters.

...the Cell is now a launching pad, and the Sox are doing speed and defense. They'll be hard-pressed to win 70 games next year.

Jabroni
02-01-2005, 01:19 AM
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-cubs-orioles-sosatradeTo replace some of Sosa's power, the Cubs neared an agreement with free-agent outfielder Jeromy Burnitz on a one-year contract with a mutual option for 2006. That deal wouldn't be finalized until the Sosa trade is completed.MWAHAHAHAHAHA!!! OH, HAPPY DAY!!! The Scrubs replace Sham-Me with an even worse bat in Burnitz!!!

:)

HebrewHammer
02-01-2005, 01:34 AM
The following is one Cub fans opinion on the trade of Lee and the Sox loss of Magglio.

Well...it's worked so well for the past three years...

santo=dorf
02-01-2005, 01:41 AM
Well...it's worked so well for the past three years...



Obviously you don't have the mentality of a Cubs fan (be thankful.) If something defies statistics, it must be due to supernatural powers, like a billy goat!

kruzer31
02-01-2005, 03:11 AM
Cubs will sign Jeremy "Bum Bum" Burnitz tomorrow as reported on the Kevin Wheeler show that he hosts overnight on Sporting News Radio. Just what the cubs need, another guy who strikes out over 135 times a year. Im die hard Sox fan here and dont hate the cubs, just dont pay attention to them like any of the other 28 teams out there. I honestly think the Cubs are far worse then last season. At least we have hope and some optomism here on the South Side. Glad we didnt sign Burnitz, he really does suck.

Jeff

Jabroni
02-01-2005, 03:18 AM
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=44816

Yep, this is great news. The Flubs replace Sham-Me with an even bigger strikeout master in Burnitz. Hilarious. We have a better outfield than the Cubs by far. I'll take Dye, Podsednik, Rowand, and Everett over Burnitz, Hairston, Patterson, and Hollandsworth any day of the week.

Ol' No. 2
02-01-2005, 10:53 AM
I don't know how they did it, but they somehow managed to replace Scammy with the one guy who will probably put up even WORSE numbers. I wonder if they'll be on the cover of SI again this year. Has Hell frozen over yet?

Baby Fisk
02-01-2005, 11:03 AM
I don't know how they did it, but they somehow managed to replace Scammy with the one guy who will probably put up even WORSE numbers. I wonder if they'll be on the cover of SI again this year. Has Hell frozen over yet?
[Homefish formatting]

Not so fast, ON2. Burnitz is the missing piece of the puzzle for the fearsome and underrated Cubs. Because of this signing, I'm changing my World Series prediction. Cubs will now sweep it in 4 games, not 5.

[/Homefish formatting]

Flight #24
02-01-2005, 11:04 AM
I don't know how they did it, but they somehow managed to replace Scammy with the one guy who will probably put up even WORSE numbers. I wonder if they'll be on the cover of SI again this year. Has Hell frozen over yet?

For the Record:

Career .254 hitter / .842OPS. He's got a career .351 OBP, but has only broken .347 once in the past 5 years. Last 5 years, his OPS was .812, .851, .676, 786, .915. Even last year, with pretty god overall numbers, his road splits were .244 / .327 / .775 (270 ABs). Nah, no Coors factor there.

Oh yeah, last 3 years at Wrigley (35ABs), he's posted a sparkling .713OPS. Whoo hoo!!!

34 Inch Stick
02-01-2005, 11:07 AM
If I was a Cubs fan, I would be going absolutely ape ****. If they sign Burnitz, this team is FAR worse than it was last year. In the early part of the year it was Alou who carried this team. Sammy carried them offensively for the later part of the year. Now it will be up to Ramirez and Lee. I think the world of Ramirez and would have no problem with him hitting 3 or 4. Lee however, traditionally starts off slow. That slow start may bury the Cubs this year.

HomeFish
02-01-2005, 11:07 AM
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=44816

Yep, this is great news. The Flubs replace Sham-Me with an even bigger strikeout master in Burnitz. Hilarious. We have a better outfield than the Cubs by far. I'll take Dye, Podsednik, Rowand, and Everett over Burnitz, Hairston, Patterson, and Hollandsworth any day of the week.

Their infield and starting rotation is so much better than ours, though, that it's not even funny. We are absolutely pathetic in comparison.

Look out for that Dubois kid. He put up monster numbers in AAA for them; unlike with the White Sox, prospects for other teams sometimes work out.

Jabroni
02-01-2005, 11:10 AM
Hey, they had to replace Sham-Me's strikeouts somehow! This could be the worst offseason of any team in the MLB...

Cubs lose:
Sham-Me Sosa
Moises Alou
Matt Clement
Kent Mercker

Cubs get:
Jeromy Burnitz
Jerry Hairston
Henry Blanco

Now that's just sad!!! :tongue:

Flight #24
02-01-2005, 11:12 AM
Their infield and starting rotation is so much better than ours, though, that it's not even funny. We are absolutely pathetic in comparison.

Look out for that Dubois kid. He put up monster numbers in AAA for them; unlike with the White Sox, prospects for other teams sometimes work out.

Are you serious? They have advantages at SS & 3B, but Iguchi-Walker is even or to the Sox, and Konerko-Lee is pretty even as well. I'd take AJP (Career .294avg / .774OPS) over Barret(Career .260 / .725) as well. And our OF puts them to shame as does our bullpen.

Tekijawa
02-01-2005, 11:12 AM
Cubs lose:
Sham-Me Sosa
Moises Alou
Matt Clement
Kent Mercker

Cubs get:
Jeromy Burnitz
Jerry Hairston
Henry Blanco


HENDRY FOR GM OF THE YEAR!!!

Jabroni
02-01-2005, 11:14 AM
Their infield and starting rotation is so much better than ours, though, that it's not even funny. We are absolutely pathetic in comparison.

Look out for that Dubois kid. He put up monster numbers in AAA for them; unlike with the White Sox, prospects for other teams sometimes work out.Put down the Cubbie Kool-Aid. How is Dubois ever even going to see an at bat with Dusty Baker at the helm? He only plays veterans and they now have Hairston for LF and will soon have Burnitz for RF. And don't forget Hollandsworth, whom Baker loves. Dubois will be their 5th outfielder and Busty won't play him. Book it.

HomeFish
02-01-2005, 11:14 AM
Are you serious? They have advantages at SS & 3B, but Iguchi-Walker is even or to the Sox, and Konerko-Lee is pretty even as well. I'd take AJP (Career .294avg / .774OPS) over Barret(Career .260 / .725) as well. And our OF puts them to shame as does our bullpen.

Their advantages at SS and 3B are absolutely gigantic. But then, again, look who they're up against. Especially at 3B.

Iguchi has never done anything to warrant equal status with Walker either.

HomeFish
02-01-2005, 11:15 AM
Put down the Cubbie Kool-Aid. How is Dubois ever even going to see an at bat with Dusty Baker at the helm? He only plays veterans and they now have Hairston for LF and will soon have Burnitz for RF.

That's my hope, and that's what a lot of Cub fans I know are complaining about.

I personally don't have any issues with Baker not playing him. In Dusty we Trusty has a whole new meaning for me now.

Flight #24
02-01-2005, 11:20 AM
Their advantages at SS and 3B are absolutely gigantic. But then, again, look who they're up against. Especially at 3B.

Iguchi has never done anything to warrant equal status with Walker either.

Todd Walker the past 2 years has batted around .280 with a .340-ish OBP and an .800-ish OPS. His highest OBP in the past 4 years was .355, highest OPS was last year's .820.

Translate Iguchi's stats all you want, you're expecting a Matsui-like dropoff from Iguchi if he can't better those #s. Remember, this is a guy who's posted a .400+OBP the past 2 years, batted around .330, and hit 20+HR (more than Walker's ever hit) - all in what's supposedly a tougher park to hit in than USCF.

So even projecting a significant dropoff, he'll still likely beat Walker's top end of .285 avg/ .250 OBP/ .820 OPS. Projecting him to do worse than that is a lot like projecting Jason Dubois to be a stud from the get-go.

As for Uribe - he posted an .833OPS inclusive of his horrendous midseason stretch last year. Nomar was .842. Sure - Uribe's a risk from inconsistency, but it's not really any more of a risk than Nomar is due to injury.

And is Aramis really a .951OPS guy or the guy who averaged high .700s the 3 years prior?

Jabroni
02-01-2005, 11:25 AM
1B (Konerko / Lee) - Konerko has the edge offensively.
2B (Iguchi / Walker) - I will say that Walker has the edge for now but Iguchi has more upside.
3B (Crede / Ramirez) - Obviously, Ramirez is better.
SS (Uribe / Nomar) - If he can stay healthy, Nomar is better.
LF (Podsednik / Hairston) - Edge to Podsednik. Hairston's career numbers aren't very impressive.
CF (Rowand / Patterson) - Edge to Rowand. Patterson is a strikeout master.
RF (Dye / Burnitz) - Edge to Dye. Burnitz is another strikeout master and his 2004 stats are Coors-inflated.
C (Pierzynski / Barrett) - Edge to AJP. AJP has hit his entire career. Barrett just had a career year last season.

And don't forget that we have Everett backing our outfield up. The Flubs have Hollandsworth. The way I see it, we are better than the Cubs at 5 positions. They are better than us at 2B, 3B, and SS. If Iguchi pans out, they may only be better than us at two positions. The Flubs have a better rotation than us but we have a better bullpen than them by far. Can you say, "no closer"?

1917
02-01-2005, 11:31 AM
The following is one Cub fans opinion on the trade of Lee and the Sox loss of Magglio.

Buddy, we got Paulie, Dye, Everett, Rowand, Frank, Uribe and crede to knock the rest in. Sit back and relax and enjoy our show

Flight #24
02-01-2005, 11:32 AM
1B (Konerko / Lee) - Konerko has the edge offensively.
2B (Iguchi / Walker) - I will say that Walker has the edge for now but Iguchi has more upside.
3B (Crede / Ramirez) - Obviously, Ramirez is better.
SS (Uribe / Nomar) - If he can stay healthy, Nomar is better.
LF (Podsednik / Hairston) - Edge to Podsednik. Hairston's career numbers aren't very impressive.
CF (Rowand / Patterson) - Edge to Rowand. Patterson is a strikeout master.
RF (Dye / Burnitz) - Edge to Dye. Burnitz is another strikeout master and his 2004 stats are Coors-inflated.
C (Pierzynski / Barrett) - Edge to AJP. AJP has hit his entire career. Barrett just had a career year last season.

And don't forget that we have Everett backing our outfield up. The Flubs have Hollandsworth. The way I see it, we are better than the Cubs at 5 positions. They are better than us at 2B, 3B, and SS. If Iguchi pans out, they may only be better than us at two positions. The Flubs have a better rotation than us but we have a better bullpen than them by far. Can you say, "no closer"?

Nicely put. Also, I'd giuve us a significant advantage at #5 starter with Garland over Glendon Rusch, although I'm sure HomeFish will say he can repeat his 2004 performance despite not having done so before in a reasonably long career.

DrCrawdad
02-01-2005, 11:34 AM
Their infield and starting rotation is so much better than ours, though, that it's not even funny. We are absolutely pathetic in comparison.

Look out for that Dubois kid. He put up monster numbers in AAA for them; unlike with the White Sox, prospects for other teams sometimes work out.

Did you forget to put that in teal?

The Cubs rotation is better, on paper. We'll see how it works out. I wouldn't say the Sox rotation is "pathetic." The Cardinals rotation was probably considered pathetic in comparison to the Cubs last year.

Dubois, maybe he'll be good. Who knows for certain at this point. Do all their prospects work? No. How about Choi, Hill, Steve Smyth, Kelton, Francis Beltran, Juan "Little Pedro" Cruz, Scott Chiasson, Courtney Duncan, Chad Meyers, Ruben Quevedo, Steve Rain, Joey Nation, Brendan Harris & Andy Pratt. These are from the last 4 years.

rdivaldi
02-01-2005, 11:43 AM
Look out for that Dubois kid. He put up monster numbers in AAA for them; unlike with the White Sox, prospects for other teams sometimes work out.

When was the last time the Flubbies actually developed a position player? :?:

Sox have developed Magglio, Lee, Rowand, and some guy named Frank Thomas.

DrCrawdad
02-01-2005, 11:49 AM
When was the last time the Flubbies actually developed a position player? :?:

Sox have developed Magglio, Lee, Rowand, and some guy named Frank Thomas.

I know! I know!

Corey Patterson.

:bandance: :supernana: :bandance:

Palehose13
02-01-2005, 11:53 AM
Their advantages at SS and 3B are absolutely gigantic. But then, again, look who they're up against. Especially at 3B.

Iguchi has never done anything to warrant equal status with Walker either.

Offensively they absolutely have an edge. However, their best defensive infielder is their first baseman. The rest are butchers. Other than their starting pitching (which is questionable because of injuries), it looks to me like the cubs are going to have to play a lot of station to station baseball and are very questionable defensively. We all know how that formula works...

Flight #24
02-01-2005, 11:53 AM
I know! I know!

Corey Patterson.

:bandance: :supernana: :bandance:

That's not all....Ramirez!!! (oh yeah....)

Umm...well, maybe Lee!!! (wait....)

Well, there's that Nomar guy!! (ah crap....)

Well, the track record is there, you just KNOW Dubois is going to be huge!!! He will he will he will!!!!

Lip Man 1
02-01-2005, 12:03 PM
ESPN.com is saying the Burnitz deal will be announced as soon as the Sosa deal goes down.

Lip

HebrewHammer
02-01-2005, 12:09 PM
:sahaf
"With the addition of the mighty Jeromy Burnitz, a Cubs championship is all but assured. We fully expect him to exceed the combined numbers of the treacherous dogs Sosa and Alou. With the speed of Hairston at the top of our lineup our offense will be all but unstoppable, we have no reason to doubt that he will have an OBP well over .900. Praise Dusty!"

Brian26
02-01-2005, 01:31 PM
I'm blown away at how many people care so much about the Cubs.

Brian26
02-01-2005, 01:33 PM
ESPN.com is saying the Burnitz deal will be announced as soon as the Sosa deal goes down.

Lip

:party:

Blueprint1
02-01-2005, 02:42 PM
ESPN.com is saying the Burnitz deal will be announced as soon as the Sosa deal goes down.

Lip

You know there is an outside chance they could also sign maggs as well as burnitz.

MUsoxfan
02-01-2005, 02:44 PM
You know there is an outside chance they could also sign maggs as well as burnitz.

VERY slim chance. The Cubs are in salary-dump mode and are probably unlikely to throw a bunch of money at Ordonez.

Ol' No. 2
02-01-2005, 02:49 PM
VERY slim chance. The Cubs are in salary-dump mode and are probably unlikely to throw a bunch of money at Ordonez.All the hot air you read is just stories planted by Boras to try to sqeeze Detroit. It's his favorite game: "Someone else is interested. Better up your offer." ALL statements directly from the Cubs are that the Cubs are not interested.

Palehose13
02-01-2005, 02:51 PM
All the hot air you read is just stories planted by Boras to try to sqeeze Detroit. It's his favorite game: "Someone else is interested. Better up your offer." ALL statements directly from the Cubs are that the Cubs are not interested.

Yep. I would imagine that they have no interest in a 5 year deal now that they have to eat so much of Sosa's contract.

maurice
02-01-2005, 03:31 PM
Their advantages at SS and 3B are absolutely gigantic.

There's no doubt that the cubs (and most other teams) have a large advantage over the Sox at 3B, but the "advantage" at SS is slim or none. Barring a reversion to pre-2004 performances, Garciapara and Uribe are about even offensively (.842 OPS v. .833 OPS). Garciapara is not likely to improve away from Fenway. Meanwhile, Uribe is a WAY better fielder at one of the two most defensive-oriented positions on the diamond.

SoxxoS
02-01-2005, 03:58 PM
There's no doubt that the cubs (and most other teams) have a large advantage over the Sox at 3B, but the "advantage" at SS is slim or none. Barring a reversion to pre-2004 performances, Garciapara and Uribe are about even offensively (.842 OPS v. .833 OPS). Garciapara is not likely to improve away from Fenway. Meanwhile, Uribe is a WAY better fielder at one of the two most defensive-oriented positions on the diamond.

Unfortunately, as Kirk Hinrich said, statistics are like bikinis, they show most of it, but not all of it.

Comparing their OPS will show similar players. I don't think there was a player more inconsistant than Uribe last year. Garciaparra is steady and solid. Uribe does play good D, and he is a good deal for the money, but his inconsistancy is going to drive me mad. I think he went 4-160 in June/July.

HomeFish
02-01-2005, 04:00 PM
There's no doubt that the cubs (and most other teams) have a large advantage over the Sox at 3B, but the "advantage" at SS is slim or none. Barring a reversion to pre-2004 performances, Garciapara and Uribe are about even offensively (.842 OPS v. .833 OPS). Garciapara is not likely to improve away from Fenway. Meanwhile, Uribe is a WAY better fielder at one of the two most defensive-oriented positions on the diamond.

Call me when Uribe hits .308 for a full season.

Mickster
02-01-2005, 04:15 PM
Call me when Uribe hits .308 for a full season.

Call me when Woods wins more than 14.

HomeFish
02-01-2005, 04:17 PM
Call me when Woods wins more than 14.

Hopefully I'll never have to.

But, please, call me when the White Sox get an actual power pitcher. That's a call I really want to get.

Mickster
02-01-2005, 04:19 PM
Hopefully I'll never have to.

But, please, call me when the White Sox get an actual power pitcher. That's a call I really want to get.

Give me five Buehrle's. Keep your "power" pitcher.

JUribe1989
02-01-2005, 04:24 PM
LOL .244 Average on the road, LOL, OMG I cant stop laughing. Royce Clayton showed what Corrs can do last offseason. No playoffs for the Flubs!

maurice
02-01-2005, 04:25 PM
Call me when Uribe hits .308 for a full season.

Call me when Garciapara learns to play defense or hit at Wrigley. That's not likely to happen to a guy that turns 32 this year. In fact, he's been in steady decline over the last three years, following a HUGE decline after the 2000 season. There's a reason nobody would give him a solid, long-term deal.

Garciaparra is steady and solid.

:?:

It's true that Uribe is maddeningly inconsistent with the bat, but he's very consistent with the glove. Meanwhile, Garciapara is not nearly as consistent as you think. His defensive lapses at SS are well-known, along with his recent propensity to miss time with dubious injuries. Apparently less well-known are his extreme splits recently:

OPS v. RHP - .902
OPS v. LHP - .639
Home OPS - .803
Road OPS - .890
OPS at Fenway - .858
OPS at Wrigley - .758
Day OPS - .753 (that'll work out real well at Wrigley)
Night OPS - .917
April OPS - didn't play
May OPS - didn't play
June OPS - .656
July OPS - 1.029
August OPS - .843
September OPS - .818
October OPS - .607 (only 12 ABs)

That's quite different from what you'd expect from a "steady and solid" player.

rdivaldi
02-01-2005, 04:41 PM
Hopefully I'll never have to.

But, please, call me when the White Sox get an actual power pitcher. That's a call I really want to get.

[ring, ring]

Hello HomeFish, the White Sox have acquired Billy Koch...

[hangs up]

Palehose13
02-01-2005, 05:01 PM
There's no doubt that the cubs (and most other teams) have a large advantage over the Sox at 3B, but the "advantage" at SS is slim or none. Barring a reversion to pre-2004 performances, Garciapara and Uribe are about even offensively (.842 OPS v. .833 OPS). Garciapara is not likely to improve away from Fenway. Meanwhile, Uribe is a WAY better fielder at one of the two most defensive-oriented positions on the diamond.

Unfortunately maurice, some people think this game is all about hitting and defense is barely thought about. Like I said before, other than Derek Lee the cub infield is awful defensively. I don't think that much of their outfield either. Oh well, I guess if you're gonna give up a lot of runs you gotta score a lot of runs. :wink:

DrCrawdad
02-01-2005, 05:06 PM
HomeFish made this statement:

Their infield and starting rotation is so much better than ours, though, that it's not even funny. We are absolutely pathetic in comparison.

Look out for that Dubois kid. He put up monster numbers in AAA for them; unlike with the White Sox, prospects for other teams sometimes work out.

I responded with the below, which only includes failed Cubbie prospects who made it to the major league level. Interesting that there was no response to these facts.

Did you forget to put that in teal?

The Cubs rotation is better, on paper. We'll see how it works out. I wouldn't say the Sox rotation is "pathetic." The Cardinals rotation was probably considered pathetic in comparison to the Cubs last year.

Dubois, maybe he'll be good. Who knows for certain at this point. Do all their prospects work? No. How about Choi, Hill, Steve Smyth, Kelton, Francis Beltran, Juan "Little Pedro" Cruz, Scott Chiasson, Courtney Duncan, Chad Meyers, Ruben Quevedo, Steve Rain, Joey Nation, Brendan Harris & Andy Pratt. These are from the last 4 years.

Then there is the list of players who've never made it to the Cubs, such as their Beanball Ben Christenson (sp?), Luis Montanez (the Cubs '00 #1 pick who's going backwards) and others.

Your dig on the Sox is oft repeated, but just because it's repeated doesn't make it true.

santo=dorf
02-01-2005, 05:25 PM
Hopefully I'll never have to.

But, please, call me when the White Sox get an actual power pitcher. That's a call I really want to get.
Take a look at the stats in my ****ing signature. :dtroll:

NSSoxFan
02-01-2005, 05:42 PM
Hopefully I'll never have to.

But, please, call me when the White Sox get an actual power pitcher. That's a call I really want to get.

:dtroll:

Flight #24
02-01-2005, 05:45 PM
Take a look at the stats in my ****ing signature. :dtroll:

Elaborating on S=D's comment, apparently HomeFish believes that a "real power pitcher" puts up #s like this:
Player A - 209.2 IP / 188K / 1.22 WHIP / 2.32 K/BB

Certainly not like this:
Player B - 210 IP / 184K / 1.22 WHIP / 2.88 K/BB

Player A: Carlos Zambrano. Player B: Freddy Garcia. Isn't it obvious?

dickallen15
02-01-2005, 05:45 PM
Hendry tried to trade for his fat ass back in 2003 when Patheticson went down. Take a look at Jeromy's road splits from last season;

.244/.327/.448 14HR, 67 SO in 78 games.

:gulp:

Looks like Konerko on the road. Paulie only hit .239 with 12 homers on the road in 2004.

SOXit2EM
02-01-2005, 06:17 PM
Just read this on TSN.com. Burnitz to Cubs after Sosa deal completed. It's a 1 year deal for 5 mil, with a mutual option for 2006 for 6.5 mil. This was just posted 3 min ago. :D:

HomeFish
02-01-2005, 07:10 PM
Then there is the list of players who've never made it to the Cubs, such as their Beanball Ben Christenson (sp?), Luis Montanez (the Cubs '00 #1 pick who's going backwards) and others.


Oh come on. How can you forget Augie Ojeda? He's like the first thing that comes to mind when one thinks of failed prospects for the accursed ones.



Your dig on the Sox is oft repeated, but just because it's repeated doesn't make it true.

The fact is, Sox prospects tend to fail and tend to fail badly. Post-Buerhle, I can't think of a single successful one.

santo=dorf
02-01-2005, 07:12 PM
Elaborating on S=D's comment, apparently HomeFish believes that a "real power pitcher" puts up #s like this:
Player A - 209.2 IP / 188K / 1.22 WHIP / 2.32 K/BB

Certainly not like this:
Player B - 210 IP / 184K / 1.22 WHIP / 2.88 K/BB

Player A: Carlos Zambrano. Player B: Freddy Garcia. Isn't it obvious?

Yeah but Freddy didn't come from our minor league system!! He had to trade the Future Joe Jackson and Johnny Bench to get him.

Let's also not forget which pitcher pitches in the American League and the best hitter's park in the MLB.

Palehose13
02-01-2005, 07:14 PM
5 mil for Burnitz? That looks like 5 mil for Valentin! Plus, they have to pay most of Sosa's salary? The 2005 cubs is proof that spending money doesn't necessarily give you a great team.

santo=dorf
02-01-2005, 07:15 PM
5 mil for Burnitz? That looks like 5 mil for Valentin! Plus, they have to pay most of Sosa's salary? The 2005 cubs is proof that spending money doesn't necessarily give you a great team.

That doesn't apply to cursed teams.

Ol' No. 2
02-01-2005, 07:21 PM
5 mil for Burnitz? That looks like 5 mil for Valentin! Plus, they have to pay most of Sosa's salary? The 2005 cubs is proof that spending money doesn't necessarily give you a great team.So the net cost for Burnitz and Hairston comes to...carry the one...$22.3M.
http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_136860.jpg Holy cow. I'm a bargain!!

Palehose13
02-01-2005, 07:29 PM
So the net cost for Burnitz and Hairston comes to...carry the one...$22.3M.
http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_136860.jpg Holy cow. I'm a bargain!!

Wow. It may have been better to keep Soso around for the year.

DrCrawdad
02-01-2005, 07:34 PM
Oh come on. How can you forget Augie Ojeda? He's like the first thing that comes to mind when one thinks of failed prospects for the accursed ones.

Glossing over the long list of flops that I provided, all in the years since Buehrle's start BTW.

The fact is, Sox prospects tend to fail and tend to fail badly. Post-Buerhle, I can't think of a single successful one.

Aaron Rowand, then just recently there is Jeremy Reed who's had a very successful start, albeit after he was traded.

Just curious, are you a Cub fan?

santo=dorf
02-01-2005, 07:36 PM
Just curious, are you a Cub fan?

He claims he used to be.

Palehose13
02-01-2005, 07:46 PM
He claims he used to be.

Used to be? :?:

He claims the 2005 Sox look pathetic compared to the 2005 cubs. I may have some rose-colored glasses on, but c'mon...

DrCrawdad
02-01-2005, 07:51 PM
Used to be? :?:

He claims the 2005 Sox look pathetic compared to the 2005 cubs. I may have some rose-colored glasses on, but c'mon...

I think he's wearing Cubbie blue tinted glasses.

JUribe1989
02-01-2005, 07:52 PM
The Cubs will be keeping the third place seat warm in 2005. I laugh in the face of their offseason. Burnitz obp was under .300 before Coors, and his average was in the .230s. He is nothing!

samram
02-01-2005, 08:00 PM
HomeFish made this statement:



I responded with the below, which only includes failed Cubbie prospects who made it to the major league level. Interesting that there was no response to these facts.



Then there is the list of players who've never made it to the Cubs, such as their Beanball Ben Christenson (sp?), Luis Montanez (the Cubs '00 #1 pick who's going backwards) and others.

Your dig on the Sox is oft repeated, but just because it's repeated doesn't make it true.

I agree. I remember Mike Murphy, maybe back in 2001 or 2002, talking about the Cubs All-Star infield of 2005, consisting of Choi, Hill, Montanez, and Kelton.:rolleyes: The Cubs will have only one homegrown position player in the lineup to start the year- the Sox aren't the only team that has trouble developing players, despite CubFish's claims.

Chisox003
02-01-2005, 08:05 PM
I agree. I remember Mike Murphy, maybe back in 2001 or 2002, talking about the Cubs All-Star infield of 2005, consisting of Choi, Hill, Montanez, and Kelton.:rolleyes: The Cubs will have only one homegrown position player in the lineup to start the year- the Sox aren't the only team that has trouble developing players, despite CubFish's claims.

Homefish is a joke...I dont even bother reading his posts

Whitesox029
02-01-2005, 08:17 PM
Heard it while listening to the scoreboard update a little while ago. This is good because it probably means they won't be getting Maggs or Huff. Burnitz is pretty much a clone of Sammy, but worse. He isn't the bad clubhouse guy though.
This makes me think they got rid of Sosa only because he was a cancer, and not because he hit .253 with 130 Ks.
"Well we finally got rid of him...now let's go sign somebody a little bit nicer who will fill that strikeout hole for us."
Sammy without the fan fawning if you ask me.

Brian26
02-01-2005, 08:54 PM
Call me when Woods wins more than 14.

LOL!!! Great stuff. Seriously!

Clement's beard
02-01-2005, 08:58 PM
Cross the fingers. Check out the new Maggs thread I just started:?:

PAPChiSox729
02-01-2005, 10:30 PM
Just read this on TSN.com. Burnitz to Cubs after Sosa deal completed. It's a 1 year deal for 5 mil, with a mutual option for 2006 for 6.5 mil. This was just posted 3 min ago. :D:

Burnitz for 5 million!? Hendry is a genius!! :redneck

SoxSpeed22
02-01-2005, 10:32 PM
I don't know how they did it, but they somehow managed to replace Scammy with the one guy who will probably put up even WORSE numbers. I wonder if they'll be on the cover of SI again this year. Has Hell frozen over yet?Well it already has cuz of the ****** Red Sox:angry:

CWSGuy406
02-01-2005, 11:36 PM
You know there is an outside chance they could also sign maggs as well as burnitz.

How so?

You don't pay a guy 5 million a year to sit on the bench.

Corey will start, be it in center or right.

That leaves LF -- sure, they can sign Maggs to play right and move Burnitz over to left, but that means that Hairston won't get in -- meaning, no leadoff hitter.

The smart thing to do would to give Maggs a contract (provided it has outs incase the knee is really messed up), move Burnitz to left, and platoon Walker/Hairston at second. That's a lineup I'd really be afraid of, but I really don't see it happening -- Walker will want full PT at second, though I could be wrong there...

Jabroni
02-01-2005, 11:38 PM
They can't afford both Burnitz and Maggs. Well, realistically they can but the Tribune won't let Hendry raise the payroll that much.

DrCrawdad
02-03-2005, 12:53 AM
I'm still interested in a direct answer to the question I posed earlier, HomeFish are you a Cub fan?

It's really a simple matter, a simple yes or no. It's not a witch hunt or an accusation, a direct answer would enlighten me as to where you are coming from.

Jabroni
02-03-2005, 12:59 AM
I'm still interested in a direct answer to the question I posed earlier, HomeFish are you a Cub fan?

It's really a simple matter, a simple yes or no. It's not a witch hunt or an accusation, a direct answer would enlighten me as to where you are coming from.Here's what I've derived from most of HomeFish's posts...

He is extremely optimistic of the Cubs chances but he is extremely pessimistic of the Sox chances every year. He seems to think that the planets will align perfectly for the Cubs every season but the Ice Age will hit the South Side. The worst thing is that when the Sox do fail, HomeFish feels like he was the great Nostradamus and predicted our poor fortunes and he's not ashamed to tell everyone. :rolleyes:

P.S. Don't forget that according to HomeFish (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=589532&postcount=15), Jason Dubois is going to be a stud this season even though he's behind Burnitz, Hollandsworth, and Hairston on the Cubs' depth chart of corner outfielders and Dusty only plays veterans.

DrCrawdad
02-03-2005, 01:27 AM
Here's what I've derived from most of HomeFish's posts...

He is extremely optimistic of the Cubs chances but he is extremely pessimistic of the Sox chances every year. He seems to think that the planets will align perfectly for the Cubs every season but the Ice Age will hit the South Side. The worst thing is that when the Sox do fail, HomeFish feels like he was the great Nostradamus and predicted our poor fortunes and he's not ashamed to tell everyone. :rolleyes:

P.S. Don't forget that according to HomeFish (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=589532&postcount=15), Jason Dubois is going to be a stud this season even though he's behind Burnitz, Hollandsworth, and Hairston on the Cubs' depth chart of corner outfielders and Dusty only plays veterans.

I posted the question earlier in this thread, and he ignored it. I sent HomeFish a PM and he was indignant but dodged directly answering the question, are you a Cub fan? You'll notice that I didn't ask are you a Cub fan OR a Sox fan. I simply want to know if he's a Cub fan. Why is that question so difficult? Why the obfuscation?

I have no trouble with Cub fans posting here by the way. Simply disclose it though. Don't put on a pretense. Have the guts to be honest and frank about where you're coming from.

Jabroni
02-03-2005, 02:58 AM
Foretelling words from Burnitz...

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-050202cubssosatrade,1,6189453.story?coll=cs-cubs-headlines"I'm going to really go all out with the team attitude," Burnitz said. "I think it all is going to revolve around what we do as a team. Of course the fans are going to love me. They don't even care if you strike out if the team's winning. And that's basically the attitude I'm going to have. If the team's doing well, let's face it, the fans are going to love me and probably every other guy on the squad, more than they already do."Burnitz is already trying to soften up Flub fans to the idea of him striking out alot. :tongue:

HomeFish
02-03-2005, 10:55 AM
The worst thing is that when the Sox do fail, HomeFish feels like he was the great Nostradamus and predicted our poor fortunes and he's not ashamed to tell everyone. :rolleyes:


I don't know what poster you're talking about there, but it isn't me. I have never done that. The Sox doing poorly is the last thing on Earth that I would gloat about.

Baby Fisk
02-03-2005, 12:21 PM
The Sox doing poorly is the last thing on Earth that I would gloat about.
But endlessly predicting that the Sox will do poorly is the first thing you do in every thread...:rolleyes:

It must be horrible not to be able to take any satisfaction when your relentless prophecies come to fruition. Your gift is truly a curse. The incredible burdens you bear for us all are beyond the comprehension of our puny brains.

Hangar18
02-03-2005, 12:31 PM
But endlessly predicting that the Sox will do poorly is the first thing you do in every thread...:rolleyes:



heh heh, Ive predicted Gloom & Doom the last few years (definitely in 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004) :cool:

rdivaldi
02-03-2005, 12:32 PM
But, please, call me when the White Sox get an actual power pitcher.

Going back to this ridiculous "power pitcher" BS, who gives a crap about "power pitchers". This is akin to all the buffoons who whined for years about how Foulke couldn't be successful because he wasn't a "power closer".

"Power pitcher", what a dumb thing to covet.

:mad:

Unregistered
02-03-2005, 12:34 PM
heh heh, Ive predicted Gloom & Doom the last few years (definitely in 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004) :cool:But the difference is when you say that, it isn't followed by ''but look for the Cubs to win the World Series! With that pitching staff..." :rolleyes:

Ol' No. 2
02-03-2005, 01:36 PM
heh heh, Ive predicted Gloom & Doom the last few years (definitely in 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004) :cool:I could sit by the on-deck circle and tell each player I predict he'll make an out. I'll be right more than 70% of the time. Big deal.

Jabroni
02-03-2005, 02:16 PM
The worst thing is that when the Sox do fail, HomeFish feels like he was the great Nostradamus and predicted our poor fortunes and he's not ashamed to tell everyone. :rolleyes:I don't know what poster you're talking about there, but it isn't me. I have never done that. The Sox doing poorly is the last thing on Earth that I would gloat about.heh heh, Ive predicted Gloom & Doom the last few years (definitely in 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004) :cool::rolleyes:

Tekijawa
02-03-2005, 02:45 PM
I could sit by the on-deck circle and tell each player I predict he'll make an out. I'll be right more than 70% of the time. Big deal.

if our on base percentage is that low I'll shoot myself... I think you over looked walks.