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santo=dorf
01-31-2005, 05:51 PM
For all of the pessimistic Sox "fans" out there complaining about our rotation, why don't you guys do the same analysis for the other teams in the MLB?
(of course I'm going overboard with the pessimistic comments like some of our fellow posters.)

#1. Johan Santana. Reigning Cy Young winner, he's the real deal. But did he have a career year like Rowand and Uribe last season? :?:

#2. Brad Radke. Consistent pitcher who has great control and gives you a lot of innings. But he is getting older, and he has averaged only 12.7 wins per season in his career, and has only won more than 15 games once in his career.

#3. Carlos Silva. Last year was his first year in the rotation where he went 14-8 with a 4.21 ERA. But he was dead last in the AL in K/9, he had a WHIP of 1.43, is this supposed to be considered a success?

#4. Kyle Loshe. Career record of 40-39, career ERA of 4.86, career WHIP of 1.43, career 1.88 K/BB. I don't know what positive things to say about him.

#5. Joe Mays. Like "El Duque" in 2003, Mays missed the entire season in 2004, has a career record of 42-55, career ERA of 4.69, a career WHIP of 1.41, and these include his numbers from a fluke (?) 2001, where he was 17-13, had a 3.16 ERA and a WHIP of 1.15.

Who's rotation are you siding with pessimists?

I'll take our overrated rotation. :cool:

hose
01-31-2005, 06:07 PM
I think the Twins have a very solid rotation 1 -4 , Mays is coming back from injury so we'll have to wait and see. Santana could be the best pitcher in baseball right now. He will have to back up his Cy Young season to be mentioned with the elite.

The bullpen is outstanding.

munchman33
01-31-2005, 06:13 PM
I think the Twins have a very solid rotation 1 -4 , Mays is coming back from injury so we'll have to wait and see. Santana could be the best pitcher in baseball right now. He will have to back up his Cy Young season to be mentioned with the elite.

The bullpen is outstanding.

Silva and Lohse would be competing with Jon Garland for the five spot in our rotation. Mays wouldn't even be in the discussion.

Jjav829
01-31-2005, 06:30 PM
Silva and Lohse would be competing with Jon Garland for the five spot in our rotation. Mays wouldn't even be in the discussion.

I'd take Carlos Silva over Jose Contreras in a heartbeat. I really don't see what the fascination is with Jose Contreras. I guess he is the new Garland. He's the new guy that has really good stuff, but can't put it together, though everyone will always think he's about to take that next step. If the Twins offered us Carlos Silva for Contreras, I'd jump on it without hesitation. I'd probably take him over El Duque as well when you factor in health and age.

Let's be real here. Silva is our #3 starter, just like he is the Twins #3 starter.

santo=dorf
01-31-2005, 06:46 PM
I'd take Carlos Silva over Jose Contreras in a heartbeat. I really don't see what the fascination is with Jose Contreras. I guess he is the new Garland. He's the new guy that has really good stuff, but can't put it together, though everyone will always think he's about to take that next step. If the Twins offered us Carlos Silva for Contreras, I'd jump on it without hesitation. I'd probably take him over El Duque as well when you factor in health and age.

Let's be real here. Silva is our #3 starter, just like he is the Twins #3 starter.

Pitcher (AL Rank out of 41 qualifiers)
OPS against:
Garland and Contreras (combined, but it was better with the Sox) .786 (T-27) Silva .804 (31)
BAA against:
Garland .269 (21) Contreras .253 (11) Silva .310 (40)
WHIP:
Garland 1.38 (19) Contreras 1.47 (31) Silva 1.43 (29)
K/9:
Garland 4.69 (35) Contreras 7.93 (7) Silva 3.37 (41)
K/BB:
Garland 1.49 (37) Contreras 1.79 (30) Silva 2.17 (17)

The only thing Silva has over Garland or Contreras is control. Batters hit him hard, and he doesn't strike anybody out which is why he relies on the defensive behind him more. Give all three pitchers the same defensive behind them, and I bet Silva wouldn't even standout.

NSSoxFan
01-31-2005, 07:07 PM
Silva is a terrible pitcher, IMO. Remember when he started out undefeated against lesser teams, and the Sox spanked him for his first loss.

Whitesox029
01-31-2005, 07:09 PM
I think the Twins have a very solid rotation 1 -4 , Mays is coming back from injury so we'll have to wait and see. Santana could be the best pitcher in baseball right now. He will have to back up his Cy Young season to be mentioned with the elite.

The bullpen is outstanding.
Arizona had one of the best pitchers in baseball as their ace in 2004 and look where it got them. 51-111 and last place. Santana will be good, but he's not a savior. Just like RJ, Schilling and Clemens, it's only so long before someone like Radke putters out like Greg Maddux (you can argue with me on this one, but a Greg Maddux in his prime is head and shoulders above the likes of Prior, Wood, and Zambrano in the Cubs' rotation. As it stands, he's number 4, which means he is not what he used to be.) Radke will fade one of these years. Santana may be a little better than Buehrle, but I take Garcia over Radke any day of the week.

popilius
01-31-2005, 09:11 PM
We have to remember, although Mays hasn't pitched in over a year, when he pitches against the White Sox, he's Cy Young, Jr.

Still, the good thing is that the Sox have a very different lineup from when Joe Mays dominated us. . .

:gulp:

ma-gaga
02-01-2005, 10:36 AM
Arizona had one of the best pitchers in baseball as their ace in 2004 and look where it got them. 51-111 and last place.

I saw Arizona play LA last year (some old guy whose name I can't remember :cool: hit a grandslam in that game). They (Az) were an awful team last year. Horrible defense, horrible offense, horrible everything. The Twins are no Diamondbacks. They still have 6-7 decent offensive/defensive players. It's not about having the best pitcher, it's about having a team behind them to take care of the rest.

HoustonAstros967
02-01-2005, 07:53 PM
they have a good one two punch (santana, radke) but i mean the rest of their rotation is average at best. The Sox have a good rotation all the way through not just in the one and two spot.

Banix12
02-02-2005, 12:22 AM
Radke, Santana are quite possibly the best one two punch out there. If not they are at least in the top three.

Lohse is a reliable innings eater who can have good seasons if he has decent run support. Won't shut anybody down completely.

Silva gives up hits at a rediculous pace and is not a strikeout pitcher. He owes most of last years success to the above average twins defense, not masterful outings. May be able to shut down a team once, but will have a hard time doing it twice. Eventually he will be back in the bullpen.

We all know what Mays can do to the sox. He has a hard time doing it to any other team. Coming back from injury so who knows if he'll make it back at all. Not a lock for the rotation, will have to earn it against the likes of Terry Mulholland and a few younger pitchers in Spring Training

SoxxoS
02-02-2005, 01:07 AM
I believe the Sox have shelled Mays the last 2 or 3 times...plus this is a much different team than the 2002-2003 Sox who were dominated by him.