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View Full Version : Why the hostility for greedy ex-sox?


Cubbiesuck13
01-29-2005, 12:19 AM
If you were a heck of a ball player expecting the team that you have been with for the majority of your career to reward you for what you have done, would you look elswhere when they lowball you?

Naturally, all of us would play for the league minimum even if we were all stars- so long it was with the Sox. But if you were not a fan of any team growing up, currently working for a team that has a history of burning every bridge possible when it comes to superstars, what would make you want to stick around?

Fisk, Robbin, even the Oz are just a few of the players that were run out of town by the Sox brass (JR). How can every be so down on a greedy Mags? Old timers, hasn't this been the story with just about every big name player that has walked since at least the JR era?

MUsoxfan
01-29-2005, 12:32 AM
Maggs wasn't lowballed. He was offered way more than what he'll get with whatever contract he signs and he turned it down.

Cubbiesuck13
01-29-2005, 12:45 AM
What was it they claimed to have offered him? 15 per for 4 years? No differed money, IIRC. He wanted 17 per year for 5, right? Not exactly a slap in the face but when you think about the history of JR's schemes I find it hard to believe that they acually offered what they claimed to.

MUsoxfan
01-29-2005, 01:03 AM
KW is pretty good to his word

Jjav829
01-29-2005, 01:05 AM
It's not just a Sox thing. Believe me, this happens everywhere. Look at any team where a big name free agent leaves the team. The player is always called greedy, etc. while people wish bad things on him. I remember reading an Astros board during the Beltran deadline. Before the deadline all the posts were along the lines of, "Come on Carlos, come back to Houston! We love you here and you'll have a great future here." Minutes after the deadline passed and Beltran couldn't go back to the Astros, the very same people were saying, "Beltran's a greedy pig! I hope he blows out his knee. I hope he does awful in New York!" It happens everywhere, regardless of how long the player has been on a team, what he has done for the team, how good of a person he is, etc.

OEO Magglio
01-29-2005, 01:18 AM
If you were a heck of a ball player expecting the team that you have been with for the majority of your career to reward you for what you have done, would you look elswhere when they lowball you?

Naturally, all of us would play for the league minimum even if we were all stars- so long it was with the Sox. But if you were not a fan of any team growing up, currently working for a team that has a history of burning every bridge possible when it comes to superstars, what would make you want to stick around?

Fisk, Robbin, even the Oz are just a few of the players that were run out of town by the Sox brass (JR). How can every be so down on a greedy Mags? Old timers, hasn't this been the story with just about every big name player that has walked since at least the JR era?
Maggs wasn't lowballed at all, deferred money or not he got more then a fair offer. For me my dislike for maggs is because he left badmouthing the sox and their organization, if he didn't want to be here...fine but not need to bad mouth the organization, imo he's a grade A a-hole and I hope he rots away in Detroit or wherever he ends up.

Nellie_Fox
01-29-2005, 01:30 AM
Because, when is enough enough?

These guys are offered more for one year than the fans will make in their lifetimes, and they feel "insulted" by the offer.

I live in Minnesota. I've just lived through listening to Sprewell talking about how he has to feed his family on $14 million a year.

Athletes are entitled to whatever they can get paid. They aren't entitled to have our support for their ever increasing demands.

Cubbiesuck13
01-29-2005, 01:38 AM
Because, when is enough enough?

These guys are offered more for one year than the fans will make in their lifetimes, and they feel "insulted" by the offer.

I live in Minnesota. I've just lived through listening to Sprewell talking about how he has to feed his family on $14 million a year.

Athletes are entitled to whatever they can get paid. They aren't entitled to have our support for their ever increasing demands.

I agree about the overpaying, but I don't think that is the issue here. I was reffering to the club turning it's back on a player that was a fan favorite. Not just Mags but the other players who have left the team feeling bitten. IE: Fisk wearing a Red Sox cap at the HOF.

OurBitchinMinny
01-29-2005, 01:46 AM
If you were a heck of a ball player expecting the team that you have been with for the majority of your career to reward you for what you have done, would you look elswhere when they lowball you?

Naturally, all of us would play for the league minimum even if we were all stars- so long it was with the Sox. But if you were not a fan of any team growing up, currently working for a team that has a history of burning every bridge possible when it comes to superstars, what would make you want to stick around?

Fisk, Robbin, even the Oz are just a few of the players that were run out of town by the Sox brass (JR). How can every be so down on a greedy Mags? Old timers, hasn't this been the story with just about every big name player that has walked since at least the JR era?

I agree with you 100%, but we are by far in the minority. It seems like most people have forgotten how good he was for the sox. They gave him a fair offer, but a lot of it was backloaded. He would have gotten more on the open market if not for his unfortunate injury. Plus it was his first time to test the FA market as a star. If the tigers are gonna give him what is reported, I dont fault him at all. If you had a choice of a 5 year deal worth that much or a 1 year incentive laden deal at a reduced price, what would you do. I wish maggs had not gotten hurt. I wish he was still here. But hes not. I dont wish ill on him, but the best of luck unless he is playing the sox. If he signs with the tigers he will become a gigantic thorn in our side. But still better than with the cubs. Ive seen the white sox treat player after player like ****, so I dont buy any of their crap

OurBitchinMinny
01-29-2005, 01:47 AM
Maggs wasn't lowballed. He was offered way more than what he'll get with whatever contract he signs and he turned it down.

He was lowballed, considering at the time he was healthy and at the top of his game. He would have gotten a huge deal if he had a normal healthy season last year

StillMissOzzie
01-29-2005, 01:51 AM
Hey, what goes around comes around. Doesn't anybody else remember the reaction throughout baseball, and particularly in Cleveland, when the Sox signed Albert Belle?


SMO
:gulp:

Nellie_Fox
01-29-2005, 01:55 AM
... Not just Mags but the other players who have left the team feeling bitten. IE: Fisk wearing a Red Sox cap at the HOF.And Fisk left the Red Sox to come to the White Sox angry at them.

Come on, you cannot hold management responsible for the egos of pro athletes. Their egos are what makes them great, but also makes them unable to be rational in their judgment of their own situation. Fisk couldn't accept that his skills had eroded and blamed the Sox for it. I wish it hadn't been such, and that Carlton was currently part of the organization imparting his desire and dedication to our young players. But it's not all the fault of the Sox.

Cubbiesuck13
01-29-2005, 02:26 AM
And Fisk left the Red Sox to come to the White Sox angry at them.

Come on, you cannot hold management responsible for the egos of pro athletes. Their egos are what makes them great, but also makes them unable to be rational in their judgment of their own situation. Fisk couldn't accept that his skills had eroded and blamed the Sox for it. I wish it hadn't been such, and that Carlton was currently part of the organization imparting his desire and dedication to our young players. But it's not all the fault of the Sox.

ok, what about the Oz? He said that he would have signed the league minimum to stay but they pushed him out the door even though they had no major league ready SS becuase he said things about Bevington (I think that is the story). Bevington was then replaced and the Oz moved around. 13 years with the same club gives you some leeway to speak your mind I would think. I don't know what happened with Ventura or with McDowell. Do you remember?

Parrothead
01-29-2005, 03:10 AM
I agree about the overpaying, but I don't think that is the issue here. I was reffering to the club turning it's back on a player that was a fan favorite. Not just Mags but the other players who have left the team feeling bitten. IE: Fisk wearing a Red Sox cap at the HOF.

Fisk should be wearing a red sox hat in the hall of fame eventhough he plyed more for the White Sox. He was more known for his moments with the Red Sox and I have no problem with that.

Fredsox
01-29-2005, 06:50 AM
He was lowballed, considering at the time he was healthy and at the top of his game. He would have gotten a huge deal if he had a normal healthy season last year

How is 4 years at $15 million with no deferred money lowballed? This was AFTER he got hurt and was recovering (Aug-Sept timeframe). He was NOT lowballed at all, he got a very competitive offer.

Ordonez gambled and lost, that's all. He had a sure thing in one hand and he had the dream of a bigger pay-day in the other (no doubt thanks to Scott Boras whispering in his ear), and he under-estimated the seriousness of his injury. End of story.

I'm not saying he did wrong and I wish the man well, but he exhibited no loyalty to the Sox, they were just another employer to him. He got burned chasing dollars that weren't there, and so he'll settle for $50 million from the Tigers, and the rest of us will go to work at real jobs.

Cubbiesuck13
01-29-2005, 07:05 AM
[QUOTE=Fredsox]
I'm not saying he did wrong and I wish the man well, but he exhibited no loyalty to the Sox, they were just another employer to him. QUOTE]

This is my point. Why would he exhibit any loyalty to the Sox, a franchise that has a bad history with great players.

gosox41
01-29-2005, 08:34 AM
If you were a heck of a ball player expecting the team that you have been with for the majority of your career to reward you for what you have done, would you look elswhere when they lowball you?

Naturally, all of us would play for the league minimum even if we were all stars- so long it was with the Sox. But if you were not a fan of any team growing up, currently working for a team that has a history of burning every bridge possible when it comes to superstars, what would make you want to stick around?

Fisk, Robbin, even the Oz are just a few of the players that were run out of town by the Sox brass (JR). How can every be so down on a greedy Mags? Old timers, hasn't this been the story with just about every big name player that has walked since at least the JR era?

Magglio was offered the contract he said he wanted at the time. He also came out and talked about how he loved Chicago and wanted his family to stay here. So if both things were in his favor (money+ personal family happiness) why not sign?

If he had no intention of staying the nmy advice is to **** about how you loveChicago and not negotiate a contractduring the season and come out and say you want to test Free Agency.

Few people here (including me) would have been upset if those 2 things occurred.



Bob

Fredsox
01-29-2005, 09:37 AM
[QUOTE=Fredsox]
I'm not saying he did wrong and I wish the man well, but he exhibited no loyalty to the Sox, they were just another employer to him. QUOTE]

This is my point. Why would he exhibit any loyalty to the Sox, a franchise that has a bad history with great players.

I'm not sure that history has anything to do with it. The historical complaints against the Sox are that they don't pay. That clearly is not what happened here. They wanted the guy back, he did not want to come back because he felt he could get an even greater pay day somewhere else.

I'm not complaining that he exhibited no loyalty, I'm just stating it as fact. His relationship with the Sox probably had little to do with his decision to leave. He wanted a big pay day.

SpammySosa
01-29-2005, 10:04 AM
Maggs wasn't lowballed at all, deferred money or not he got more then a fair offer. For me my dislike for maggs is because he left badmouthing the sox and their organization, if he didn't want to be here...fine but not need to bad mouth the organization, imo he's a grade A a-hole and I hope he rots away in Detroit or wherever he ends up.

I guess we are all grade A a-holes by that rationale because just about all of us have badmouthed the Sox(Uncle Jerry) at one time or another.

Palehose13
01-29-2005, 10:15 AM
I agree with you 100%, but we are by far in the minority. It seems like most people have forgotten how good he was for the sox. They gave him a fair offer, but a lot of it was backloaded.

Do you just make this stuff up or are you hitting this :bong: first?

Fake Chet Lemon
01-29-2005, 01:02 PM
If the Sox treat all their players like crap, why do Ozzie, Baines, Walker and Raines all want to be back with the organization? Say what you will, but if you have ever had a job where you really got the royal screw job you would never go back under any circumstance. Especially if the head guy (JR) was still in charge. Been there, done that, not going back!

FightingBillini
01-29-2005, 01:44 PM
He was lowballed, considering at the time he was healthy and at the top of his game. He would have gotten a huge deal if he had a normal healthy season last year

Maggs was a good player, not a GREAT player. He is not one of the top 5 outfielders in the game. He was offered more than he mad in 04, and more than his market value. He wanter more money than Vladimir Guerrero got. Take a look at the numbers:

Career AV HR(98-03) RBIs(98-03) Age
Maggs .307 174 655 31
Vlad .325 222 661 28

Here is the most important part. From 98-03, the team wins/year for the Sox is 83.3, and 72.3 for the Expos. Runs/game was 5.2 for the Sox, and 4.34 for the Expos. That means Vlad put up better numbers on a much worse team. Vlad didnt have any other great hitters in the lineup until 04, when he won the MVP. Maggs hit around Frank, Konerko, and Lee.

Does it look to anyone like Maggs deserves more money than Guerrero? Please, someone tell me that those numbers lie, and that the edge in speed and defense Vlad has over a healthy Maggs doesnt matter. Magglio is a greedy SOB, and it it mindblowing that the Tigers might be dumb enough to give him a five year deal for that money. Like I said before, that kind of deal would make Albert Belle's deal with the Orioles look like a non roster invitee. The White Sox offered Ordonez more money than he was worth. Maggs lied to the fans, saying he wanted to stay here, and then bolted when he thought he could get maybe a mil or so more per year. Chicago didn't matter to him, winning didn't matter to him. Ordonez wanted the biggest possible payday, and he turned down an offer that was more than fair. I hope he likes losing 50 of the 80 games he plays per year with the Tigers.

OEO Magglio
01-29-2005, 01:49 PM
He was lowballed, considering at the time he was healthy and at the top of his game. He would have gotten a huge deal if he had a normal healthy season last year
B freakin S. He was offered the deal he was said he was seeking, he turned it down, so screw him. As far as fans bashing jerry, it's a little different when a fan bashes the owner then when a former employee bashes the organization he was just with for no reason what so ever. Maggs hired borass thus making it obvious all he cared for was money, he left the organization and kenny had nothing but good things to say about him, maggs is an ass hole, period.

MUsoxfan
01-29-2005, 02:19 PM
B freakin S. He was offered the deal he was said he was seeking, he turned it down, so screw him. As far as fans bashing jerry, it's a little different when a fan bashes the owner then when a former employee bashes the organization he was just with for no reason what so ever. Maggs hired borass thus making it obvious all he cared for was money, he left the organization and kenny had nothing but good things to say about him, maggs is an ass hole, period.

I concur. I said that in July, and everyone thought I was the bad guy. How the tables have turned....

socko82
01-29-2005, 04:42 PM
Mags gambled and lost and then he tryed to save face by lashing out at the Sox when it all fell apart. Even if he were healthy it's a good thing for the Sox he turned down the contract because it just would have been stupid to dedicate over 20% of your payroll to one player who didn't put people in the seats. I guarantee you that contract offer from the Tigers is probably more like a one or two year contract with vesting options tied to games played for the extra years. Boras always overstates the true terms of his clients contracts to make himself look good. ..... And now for the rest of Mag's life every time he has a fight with his wife she's going to throw it in his face .."You left how much on the table!?!"

santo=dorf
01-29-2005, 04:50 PM
Do you just make this stuff up or are you hitting this :bong: first?
He's usually making stuff up, like saying Buehrle is a #3 or #4 pitcher (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=498684#post498684). :rolleyes:

PaleHoseGeorge
01-29-2005, 04:53 PM
Mags gambled and lost and then he tryed to save face by lashing out at the Sox when it all fell apart. Even if he were healthy it's a good thing for the Sox he turned down the contract because it just would have been stupid to dedicate over 20% of your payroll to one player who didn't [play] ....

This is my theory, too. The real reason Maggs lashed out at the Sox was because his entire gamble had just blown up in his face -- namely snookering the Sox into offering salary arbitration without revealing the true extent of his injured knee.

I don't for a moment believe Maggs is sinister enough to devise such a underhanded negotiating stance. It has Boras's fingerprints all over it. That's why Magglio lashed out; he was frustrated that he took somebody else's advice and now was getting screwed over royally.

Once the Sox passed on offering salary arbitration, Maggs became an unrestricted free agent... and he is *still* hiding his knee's condition from 29 other MLB teams. Thus it's obvious this wasn't a personal beef Maggs had with the Sox... it was Boras trying to squeeze the most $ on behalf of his client -- by ethical means or otherwise.

Tough ****, Magglio. You hired him, now suffer the consequences like a big boy.

:whiner:

johnny_mostil
01-29-2005, 05:37 PM
Come on, you cannot hold management responsible for the egos of pro athletes. Their egos are what makes them great, but also makes them unable to be rational in their judgment of their own situation.

There are several stories in John Helyar's Lords of the Realm about ballplayers refusing to speak the GMs ever again after the GMs ripped them in arbitration cases. Ron Kittle was supposedly peeved at Roland Hemond for years after the Sox showed an arbitrator a videotape of Joe Gariagola ripping Kittle's misadventures in left field. These guys have had their egos stroked by being told how good they were since Little League. They travel first class and stay in caboose-kissing hotels.

On the other hand, we are talking about millions of dollars. I bet there aren't five people on this board who wouldn't change jobs for a million extra bucks.

misty60481
01-29-2005, 09:02 PM
I think a lot of this had to do with KW shooting of his mouth about trading Maggs for Nomar---after that I dont think Maggs trusted either KW or JR--given there track record..

JB98
01-29-2005, 10:42 PM
I think a lot of this had to do with KW shooting of his mouth about trading Maggs for Nomar---after that I dont think Maggs trusted either KW or JR--given there track record..

If that's the case, then Maggs is a complete fool. The Sox had to be concerned about losing Magglio for nothing, and they owed it to themselves to see what they could get in a trade. Maggs might have taken that as an insult, or as evidence that he wasn't wanted anymore. If so, too bad. It's not an insult; it's business. When those trade rumors were going around, Maggs had already rejected the Sox initial offer. IMO, that offer was fairly reasonable. What were the Sox supposed to do? I get the impression there are some on this board who think the only reasonable thing to do was to offer Maggs $100 million over five years or something, do whatever to retain him at any costs, etc. Frankly, he just isn't that good of a player. If Maggs had just taken the $70 million over five years, the Sox never would have shopped him.

Nellie_Fox
01-30-2005, 01:52 AM
I bet there aren't five people on this board who wouldn't change jobs for a million extra bucks.You have to keep this in perspective. Yeah, with what I make as a college professor, if somebody offered me an extra million bucks, I'm there, dude.

However, if I was already making more money than I could possibly spend, then additional money would only be a minor consideration in deciding where I wanted to work.

Cubbiesuck13
01-30-2005, 02:47 AM
My point in this thread was that the Sox don't show a heck of a lot of loyalty to their players. From stories about being released in the worst possible way to being traded during a game to bad mouthing current players to barring a former team captain from wishing his old team good luck to low balling a star player to diminished skills clauses, it seems like this franchise or at least the current ownership has not shown much loyalty to the fans nor the players. I don't know to much about Sox history so I was wondering if the guys who do know could give a little insight to the history of dealing with potentional FA in their contract years.