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SoxSpeed22
01-27-2005, 03:17 PM
The Red Sox-Yankees News network (ESPN) came up with their most improved teams this offseason
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=1976844
And after seeing this list, I'm really startin' to believe in "White Sox Baseball: Under the Radar" as the best motto. Granted we lost players like Carlos and Maggs, but filled those holes plus a Starter, a Second Baseman and a catcher.
I think the Mets, Sox and Yankees are most improved cuz each team got everything they needed.
Who are your most improved teams?

Unregistered
01-27-2005, 03:23 PM
Yeah, that's some crap. My hate for ESPN continues. :angry:

Jjav829
01-27-2005, 03:25 PM
Get used to it. The general public does not see this Sox team as being very good, or much improved for that matter. Maybe they just don't know what we know. Maybe we have all seriously overrated this team. I don't know, but I certainly hope it is the former.

I like what the Marlins did. Adding Delgado was so big for them. Leiter will give them another solid starter and a second lefty. Losing Benitez hurt, but they needed to do that to bring in Delgado. Alfonseca was good last year and they'll need him to do well again this year. I think they could still use another bullpen arm but overall, they had a good offseason.

MUsoxfan
01-27-2005, 03:30 PM
:thechoice

Who would have thought that the signing this guy and Shawn Estes are key components to greatly improving a ballclub?

Baby Fisk
01-27-2005, 03:30 PM
Look out! Atlanta's going back to the playoffs on Raul Mondesi's shoulders!

What an outrage. Harrumph! :angry:

marlins03
01-27-2005, 03:41 PM
Look out! Atlanta's going back to the playoffs on Raul Mondesi's shoulders!

What an outrage. Harrumph! :angry:
Very Funny :tongue:

Chisox003
01-27-2005, 04:23 PM
Not that we aren't used to it, but this list is OUTRAGEOUS! I cant believe the Reds were even in the top 15, let alone 9...Same goes for the Giants and their average age of 43 years old...The Angels, in desperate need of pitching added Paul Byrd, so there's your #7...The DBACKS?!? I wont even go there...And honestly, I know the Mets signed all these guys, but I really still think they are over rated...

How the Sox arent on this list is beyond me, but oh well, jaYson stark is the "expert" right?
:chunks

AZChiSoxFan
01-27-2005, 04:30 PM
Not that we aren't used to it, but this list is OUTRAGEOUS! I cant believe the Reds were even in the top 15, let alone 9...Same goes for the Giants and their average age of 43 years old...The Angels, in desperate need of pitching added Paul Byrd, so there's your #7...The DBACKS?!? I wont even go there...And honestly, I know the Mets signed all these guys, but I really still think they are over rated...

How the Sox arent on this list is beyond me, but oh well, jaYson stark is the "expert" right?
:chunks



These are not Stark's 10 most improved teams. The list comes from a poll he did of GM's and front office people.

SOXintheBURGH
01-27-2005, 04:30 PM
Absolutely wretched.

StillMissOzzie
01-27-2005, 04:41 PM
Get used to it. The general public does not see this Sox team as being very good, or much improved for that matter. Maybe they just don't know what we know. Maybe we have all seriously overrated this team. I don't know, but I certainly hope it is the former.


IMHO, the Sox have made such a change in strategic direction that it's way too early to tell if big changes = more victories. Besides, I couldn't care less what the ESPN braintrust thinks, ever since I tracked their free agent signing predictions last year - just under 25%, IIRC.

SMO
:gulp:

HoustonAstros967
01-27-2005, 04:47 PM
I agree with a lot of that list but i don't think the yankees should be that high. The added some pitchers to their virtual all star team. Two of the pitcher had their first great season last year and may stumble in the spotlight of new york. Johnson was a good addition tho. I'm surprised they hadn't gotten him sooner tho.

OEO Magglio
01-27-2005, 04:48 PM
Get used to it. The general public does not see this Sox team as being very good, or much improved for that matter. Maybe they just don't know what we know. Maybe we have all seriously overrated this team. I don't know, but I certainly hope it is the former.

I like what the Marlins did. Adding Delgado was so big for them. Leiter will give them another solid starter and a second lefty. Losing Benitez hurt, but they needed to do that to bring in Delgado. Alfonseca was good last year and they'll need him to do well again this year. I think they could still use another bullpen arm but overall, they had a good offseason.
It's because this sox team lost all of it's flash, the experts aren't going to pick the sox to do very well, the sox are just going to have to prove them wrong.

Ol' No. 2
01-27-2005, 04:49 PM
Are these the same geniuses who picked the Royals to win the AL Central last year? And the Cubs were a lock to go to the WS, too. :o:

buehrle4cy05
01-27-2005, 05:12 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=1976844
You will notice that a certain team has been left off. Was Stark justified to do this?

marlins03
01-27-2005, 05:17 PM
Good to see my fish in the Top 3
oh yea the White Sox have improved alot too

soltrain21
01-27-2005, 05:18 PM
I love how the Mariners are number 3, yet get the saying of "now if anyone can pitch."



It is the same old crap with ESPN, I am actually suprised the Reds made the list.

owensmouth
01-27-2005, 05:18 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=1976844
You will notice that a certain team has been left off. Was Stark justified to do this?

Yes

santo=dorf
01-27-2005, 05:20 PM
Good to see my fish in the Top 3
oh yea the White Sox have improved alot too

No offense to the Marlins fans, but the talk is that the Marlins will have to move either Conine or Encarnacion to fit Delgado into the budget. They also replaced Carl Pavano with Al Lieter, and Armando Benitez has handed the closing duties to Mota, who wasn't that good with the Marlins last year.

I really don't think Delgado is going to be that great of an impact on your team next year.

SoxFan48
01-27-2005, 06:43 PM
Jayson Stark, based on an informal poll of GM's, Ass't GMs and Scouts has published 10 most improved teams:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=1976844

We didn't make the list.

Question: Are we looking at the White Sox roster changes through our proverbial rose-colored classes or are the GM's et. al. missing a truly improved team?

1917
01-27-2005, 06:52 PM
Thats a bunch of BS...but who really cares, thats his opinion, I doubt we will be left off too many of those lists

Mohoney
01-27-2005, 06:53 PM
The Mets are #1 on this list. That tells me all I need to know.

Soxaholic
01-27-2005, 06:54 PM
The Sox never get any credit in the media until its too late. Everyone treated Lee like he didn't know anything about baseball, and now after the Sox traded him he's all of a sudden one of the best LF's in the game. (Insert Tribune jab here)

Foulke29
01-27-2005, 07:14 PM
Most of ESPN's writers are idiots and Stark falls right in line!

The only person worth reading over there from the baseball side is Phil Neyer!

For Pete's sake, they as Phil Rogers to write for them!

NSSoxFan
01-27-2005, 07:36 PM
I know on October 26thish of this year, none of us will care, if any of us do now. NOT IN TEAL

gf2020
01-27-2005, 07:56 PM
What really rankles me is that it's a "top ten most improved list," which consistently admits that the teams on it are only marginally better.

------


NO. 6 -- RED SOX



It's easy to focus on who isn't back -- primarily Pedro Martinez (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=4875), Derek Lowe (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5801) and Cabrera. But Jason Varitek (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5921) is back. Edgar Renteria (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5602) upgrades the champs at short. And -- for 55 million fewer dollars than Martinez and Lowe got -- they've replaced two starting pitchers with three: Matt Clement (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6099), Wade Miller (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6270) and one-time Fenway villain David Wells (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=4057). So it's possible this team could be even better than those curse-busting Idiots who preceded them.

------

Could be? If you are looking for a most improved team, shouldn't they be tangibly better than last year? I don't think anyone could deny that the white sox aren't better than they were last year with the possible exception of loss of power hitting. And even then, people forget that we didn't have Mags and Frank for most of the year and finished like third in runs. And we've replaced those players who were subbing for Ordonez (Borchard/injured everett) with Dye.


Really, what an asanine article.

Oh, and Dallas McPherson, please meet your future. His name is Joe Mauer. All hype and no results.

I want Mags back
01-27-2005, 07:57 PM
THATS BULL we have made so many deals this year, we should be in the top 5. what have must of these teams better than us.


"All teams in the AL central play in small markets, except the White Sox who play on the wrong side of town"- Peter GAmmons last season.

Stuff like this shows the **** we take and the under pperciation we have with the Flubs up town

darklord23
01-27-2005, 07:58 PM
i think the marlins had a nice off season imo so they should be pretty high up

NIXPIX35
01-27-2005, 09:11 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=1976844

According to this guy, our Sox didn't even make the top ten improved teams this winter.

:mad: :mad: :mad:

Ol' No. 2
01-27-2005, 09:15 PM
I'm SHOCKED the Cubs didn't make the list.

Jjav829
01-27-2005, 09:16 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=1976844

According to this guy, our Sox didn't even make the top ten improved teams this winter.

:mad: :mad: :mad:

Again, people, read the whole column. This isn't Jayson Stark's opinion. This list was made up based on the opinions of other GMs, assistant GMs, and scouts.

DumpJerry
01-27-2005, 10:47 PM
Who give a flying f what the media says? The games have to be played and then we'll all know who is the best. We already know it...so BRING IT ON!!!

balke
01-27-2005, 11:59 PM
From the beginning of last season v. the beginning of this season... I don't know how much we've improved. I loved that hitters lineup in coors field east... but you know there's that whole no 5th starter thing to consider.


uribe
Clee
Thomas
ordonez
konerko
Rowand
Jose V.
crede
olivo

(MY choice lineup for last season)

Versus

Pods
Rowand
Thomas
Konerko
Dye
A.J.
Uribe
Iguchi
Crede
(Whatever order is)

I don't know, last year's lineup was pimp. But the pitching this season hopefully will be ridiculous. You could say maybe we're not that improved. Our team last year was really good pre-injury. We had 4 .300 type hitters, and all kinds of 30 home run potential. Our infield had Uribe playing 2nd.... I just don't know. Maybe it's a wash. Then again, we did have Koch and Loaiza was a bust....

I'm not going to complain about no mention. This team lost a lot of great ballplayers from then til now. We're gambling on a lot of players that "should be" good. Don't get me wrong, I love this team, but maybe we shouldn't jump the gun.

Now, if you ask me from the end of last season to now... we are a top 7 most improved team for sure.

FightingBillini
01-28-2005, 01:13 AM
The Sox never get any credit in the media until its too late. Everyone treated Lee like he didn't know anything about baseball, and now after the Sox traded him he's all of a sudden one of the best LF's in the game. (Insert Tribune jab here)

Lets add Maggs to that list. He was nothing to ESPN when he was here. He was so undervalued that he only made 3 AS teams, and when he did, he just barely made it (twice as an injury replacement IIRC). Now, he is talked about like a hall of famer, even though he most likely will never be the same. The media ignores Buehrle, and he is one of the best pitchers in the game. When he hits the free agent market, he will be hyped up like this too. Only he will be capable of living up to the hype.

Fredsox
01-28-2005, 06:39 AM
Like these things mean anything anyway. I empathize that there are some hurt feelings on this, but it really doesn't mean anything, does it? I wonder where the Marlins were on this list the years they won the WS? The only thing that matters is what we do on the field, and I'm ready to start now. I've got my 9-game plan and my tickets to Tucson, and it all starts in 3 weeks.