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View Full Version : Do or Die for Ozzie?


batmanZoSo
01-25-2005, 12:29 AM
This is easily the best White Sox team on paper in a decade if you ask me. It's also far more balanced than it's been in years past. Ozzie was a rookie last year with a lot of underachievers and a few key injuries, so he undoubtedly gets a pass. But now he's got the speed, the pitching and the power to win. Do you think he'll be fired if he doesn't bring us at least an AL Central crown? Loyalty and reluctance to fire managers aside, do you think he should be fired if we don't make the playoffs? I think there's a strong case that he should be if the team is healthy.

indysoxfan
01-25-2005, 12:36 AM
a fire Ozzy thread already..... you are a true Sox fan:wink:

Whitesox029
01-25-2005, 12:38 AM
This is easily the best White Sox team on paper in a decade if you ask me. It's also far more balanced than it's been in years past. Ozzie was a rookie last year with a lot of underachievers and a few key injuries, so he undoubtedly gets a pass. But now he's got the speed, the pitching and the power to win. Do you think he'll be fired if he doesn't bring us at least an AL Central crown? Loyalty and reluctance to fire managers aside, do you think he should be fired if we don't make the playoffs? I think there's a strong case that he should be if the team is healthy.
If this team fails to win at least the Central it will be because of injuries, which you can't blame Guillen for. If there are no injuries and we still don't win then maybe I can see it. But I just don't see how we can't win if we stay healthy and performing well.

Jjav829
01-25-2005, 12:40 AM
This is easily the best White Sox team on paper in a decade if you ask me. It's also far more balanced than it's been in years past. Ozzie was a rookie last year with a lot of underachievers and a few key injuries, so he undoubtedly gets a pass. But now he's got the speed, the pitching and the power to win. Do you think he'll be fired if he doesn't bring us at least an AL Central crown? Loyalty and reluctance to fire managers aside, do you think he should be fired if we don't make the playoffs? I think there's a strong case that he should be if the team is healthy.

I think Kenny's head would/should be next up on the chopping block if this season goes the way of the past four. But with JR's loyalty to his GM's, I suppose that wouldn't happen.

Brian1978
01-25-2005, 12:43 AM
I dont think year two is do or die for him unless it is clear he cannot manage the game. I think Kenny and Ozzie are on the same page here and it may not "happen" this year. This is his 2nd year ever as a manager and I think the Sox can really see where he is wanting to take things. I was very impressed on how he handled himself in just his first year and I think Jerry and Kenny were too.

A complete transition has just taken place in a matter of months. Ozzie has the Sox believing he can get a team of players ready to play the game the way it was meant to be played. I dont think his year 3 will be in jeopardy unless he makes it clear he is in over his head (which, i really do not think he is)

Cubbiesuck13
01-25-2005, 05:01 AM
I hope no one thinks that the Oz wont make mistakes this year. Be prepared to have a ton of mistakes blamed on him. I am a big fan of the Oz and know that he will be a great manager one day but I would sure would feel better with a veteran bench coach with him. Or Fisk

The Critic
01-25-2005, 05:34 AM
I also think that Year Two is a bit too soon to say that Oz should be fired if the Sox don't make the playoffs.
We'd have to see the reasons why the Sox didn't make it, and go from there.
I DO think that KW has eased any pressure there may have been on him, with the very effective off-season he produced.

Fredsox
01-25-2005, 07:01 AM
I don't think he's necessarily gone if he doesn't win the AL Central, but I"m sure that there would be some very direct conversations about the following year. If he doesn't win, he needs to show that he understands why and what he will do to win in 2006. He needs to show improvement towards the WS goal every year and the logical next step is the division crown. Given where they are now, there just isn't a whole lot of room to improve and NOT win the division. Actually, my feeling is that if he does not advance past the first round of the playoffs, he's got some 'splainin' to do (remember what happened to Doug Collins when he couldn't get past the Pistons?). I'm not saying he'll be canned, but JR and KW will not be happy with "3 and out" in the playoffs.

Clearly management has very high hopes for this season, as do the fans. If the starting pitching stays healthy I think good things will happen. but it is a very long season.

white sox bill
01-25-2005, 08:03 AM
Look how long we stuck with Jerry "wake me when the games over" Manuel. Despite winning in '00, 3 yrs was long enough. Sox mangement is slow to make changes

SEALgep
01-25-2005, 08:05 AM
I hope no one thinks that the Oz wont make mistakes this year. Be prepared to have a ton of mistakes blamed on him. I am a big fan of the Oz and know that he will be a great manager one day but I would sure would feel better with a veteran bench coach with him. Or FiskMistakes happen, and as long as they are on the aggressive side, no problem IMO. However, under the condition he doesn't explain why using dude every other word, if you catch my drift.

jabrch
01-25-2005, 08:17 AM
Mistakes happen, and as long as they are on the aggressive side, no problem IMO. However, under the condition he doesn't explain why using dude every other word, if you catch my drift.

But Seal, it's his right as an American to say Dude. That's McCarthyism you are talking about here. I got a book of dead people to talk to about this.....

STUPID A$$.... by the way - OT: his job is on the line this year I imaigne - not Guillen's.

Realist
01-25-2005, 08:42 AM
But Seal, it's his right as an American to say Dude. That's McCarthyism you are talking about here. I got a book of dead people to talk to about this.....

STUPID A$$.... by the way - OT: his job is on the line this year I imaigne - not Guillen's.

:R&R
"Dude, what the HELL is that thing in your signature?"

Palehose13
01-25-2005, 08:47 AM
This is easily the best White Sox team on paper in a decade if you ask me. It's also far more balanced than it's been in years past. Ozzie was a rookie last year with a lot of underachievers and a few key injuries, so he undoubtedly gets a pass. But now he's got the speed, the pitching and the power to win. Do you think he'll be fired if he doesn't bring us at least an AL Central crown? Loyalty and reluctance to fire managers aside, do you think he should be fired if we don't make the playoffs? I think there's a strong case that he should be if the team is healthy.

No.

samram
01-25-2005, 08:55 AM
I would think being fired after two seasons is reserved for those with major personality disputes with management, or for those who are proven incompetent (Bevington). Most of the guys on the team are also going to be on the team in 2006 also, so it appears there's a two year period for which KW wants to give this group a chance to succeed (not to mention this period runs up to the end of the CBA, IIRC).

jabrch
01-25-2005, 09:25 AM
:R&R
"Dude, what the HELL is that thing in your signature?"

I'm laughing so hard my eyes are tearing up. I can only imagine Ribbie smacking Southpaw upside the head with his nose...

I wonder why they brought out Southpaw and didn't just bring back R&R. Those dudes rocked.

batmanZoSo
01-25-2005, 04:36 PM
No.

Well...so long as we've looked at it from all angles. :cool:

Ol' No. 2
01-25-2005, 04:38 PM
Well...so long as we've looked at it from all angles. :cool:It's still three weeks until pitchers and catchers report and we've got one thread on whether Ozzie should be fired after the season and another on whether Kenny should be fired after the season. Sheesh.

Jjav829
01-25-2005, 04:41 PM
It's still three weeks until pitchers and catchers report and we've got one thread on whether Ozzie should be fired after the season and another on whether Kenny should be fired after the season. Sheesh.

We're running out of topics here. Quick, Brooks, we need an announcement of some sort! A new hill in center field. Half price churros day! Give us something so we don't have threads popping up about why Tony Graffanino would make us a World Series contender. :smile:

Ol' No. 2
01-25-2005, 04:44 PM
We're running out of topics here. Quick, Brooks, we need an announcement of some sort! A new hill in center field. Half price Churros day! Give us something so we don't have threads popping up about why Tony Graffanino would make us a World Series contender. :smile:Maybe you should let ChiSoxTony back in. At least then we would have a juicy rumor to all pick apart.:cool:

batmanZoSo
01-25-2005, 05:06 PM
It's still three weeks until pitchers and catchers report and we've got one thread on whether Ozzie should be fired after the season and another on whether Kenny should be fired after the season. Sheesh.

I just brought it up because I thought it was a worthwhile thing. Everyone seems to be thrilled about our chances--with good reason--and myself included, so you have to think it's go time for both Ozzie and KW. My bet would have neither getting fired, but there would be a good case for both. And I'm sure there would be a lot of that talk around here in such a case.

nccwsfan
01-25-2005, 05:56 PM
I just brought it up because I thought it was a worthwhile thing. Everyone seems to be thrilled about our chances--with good reason--and myself included, so you have to think it's go time for both Ozzie and KW. My bet would have neither getting fired, but there would be a good case for both. And I'm sure there would be a lot of that talk around here in such a case.

Should Ozzie be fired if they don't win the AL Central in 2005? Not in my opinion- if an organization is going to place an investment in a field manager he should get a minimum 3 years to make improvement. This is year 1 of true 'Ozzieball'....I would say that the honeymoon would be over and anything short of a playoff berth by 2006 could be the end of the Ozzie era.

DaleJRFan
01-25-2005, 06:01 PM
I'm laughing so hard my eyes are tearing up. I can only imagine Ribbie smacking Southpaw upside the head with his nose...

I wonder why they brought out Southpaw and didn't just bring back R&R. Those dudes rocked.

The picture of southpaw in your sigg looks like he's flipping someone the bird... hopefully a Cub's fan.

RedHeadPaleHoser
01-26-2005, 02:05 PM
I wonder why they brought out Southpaw and didn't just bring back R&R. Those dudes rocked.

I heard both R & R demanded no incentives or physicals by a US mascot doctor. Would have driven payroll to $72.0000002 M....a Bozo no no for the big guy.

Ol' No. 2
01-26-2005, 02:11 PM
I heard both R & R demanded no incentives or physicals by a US mascot doctor. Would have driven payroll to $72.0000002 M....a Bozo no no for the big guy.
I heard that the Sons of Sam Horn require an essay to get admitted to their site. Can we at least have a color test?

mjharrison72
01-26-2005, 02:56 PM
Look how long we stuck with Jerry "wake me when the games over" Manuel. Despite winning in '00, 3 yrs was long enough. Sox mangement is slow to make changes
There's a difference between being slow to make changes and trying to avoid making o'erhasty or rash decisions.
That said, if I were the GM, I would have had about seven different managers in the 2003 season.

Cubbiesuck13
01-26-2005, 09:36 PM
Mistakes happen, and as long as they are on the aggressive side, no problem IMO. However, under the condition he doesn't explain why using dude every other word, if you catch my drift.

I don't catch your drift.

Jamieboy
01-27-2005, 12:56 PM
I wasn't a fan of Ozzie getting hired from the start. However, there's a lot of high expectations, and perhaps they should be toned down. This team definitely should be competitive, should we win the division? Maybe. However, if this team starts losing, HE GONE! Unless there are injuries, there's no reason for this team to lose games. Maybe we won't win the division, but losing isn't acceptable with this squad. If he Ozzie is half the manager people make him out to be, a healthy team wins 95 games. If we can get a good year out of Frank, and good years outta Contreras and El Duque, we should be a lock.