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OG4LIFE
01-24-2005, 10:19 PM
ok, i have heard about some kind of story involving KW getting po'ed and flipping over a table... i'm sure this has been discussed at length at some point or another on this site, so i apologize in advance... could someone please give a quick rundown of the story???

guillen4life13
01-24-2005, 10:20 PM
IIRC in the 2003 season, KW was really pissed off with the tables so he flipped over some buffet tables in a curse laced tyrade.

batmanZoSo
01-24-2005, 10:23 PM
IIRC in the 2003 season, KW was really pissed off with the tables so he flipped over some buffet tables in a curse laced tyrade.

I think we've all been there.

Randar68
01-24-2005, 10:33 PM
I think we've all been there.

Jerry Manual could induce Ghandi into such a tirade. Very ironic given Jerry's nickname...

FightingBillini
01-24-2005, 10:40 PM
Actually, it was in the 2002 season. After a tough loss (I think to the A's in Oakland), KW went into the clubhouse and saw Kenny Lofton among others watching "Meet the Parents". He got pissed, flipped over the buffet table, and started calling everyone Mother F'ers. Lofton was traded to the Giants shortly thereafter.

santo=dorf
01-24-2005, 10:41 PM
Jerry Manual could induce Ghandi into such a tirade. Very ironic given Jerry's nickname...

Who's that? :tongue:

Actually, it was in the 2002 season. After a tough loss (I think to the A's in Oakland), KW went into the clubhouse and saw Kenny Lofton among others watching "Meet the Parents". He got pissed, flipped over the buffet table, and started calling everyone Mother F'ers. Lofton was traded to the Giants shortly thereafter.
Where did you get that much detail?

OG4LIFE
01-24-2005, 10:43 PM
Actually, it was in the 2002 season. After a tough loss (I think to the A's in Oakland), KW went into the clubhouse and saw Kenny Lofton among others watching "Meet the Parents". He got pissed, flipped over the buffet table, and started calling everyone Mother F'ers. Lofton was traded to the Giants shortly thereafter.

awesome. thanks for the story. was this reported in any newspapers, websites, etc?

guillen4life13
01-24-2005, 10:44 PM
Actually, it was in the 2002 season. After a tough loss (I think to the A's in Oakland), KW went into the clubhouse and saw Kenny Lofton among others watching "Meet the Parents". He got pissed, flipped over the buffet table, and started calling everyone Mother F'ers. Lofton was traded to the Giants shortly thereafter.

I think you might be confusing stories. I thought the Meet the Parents thing had to do with Von Joshua being pissed at Sox players (IIRC, Clayton was the main guy) who were watching Meet the Parents instead of hitting tapes, and this is when they got off to a 14-29 start. Joshua was fired shortly thereafter.

FightingBillini
01-24-2005, 10:44 PM
I read it all on here :cool: .

I asked that same question several months ago.

batmanZoSo
01-24-2005, 10:50 PM
Actually, it was in the 2002 season. After a tough loss (I think to the A's in Oakland), KW went into the clubhouse and saw Kenny Lofton among others watching "Meet the Parents". He got pissed, flipped over the buffet table, and started calling everyone Mother F'ers. Lofton was traded to the Giants shortly thereafter.

Was 02 the year Von Joshua was fired? I know he and that movie coincide somehow. I thought that Meet the Parents thing was 2001...instead of taking BP, some of the guys were watching that movie in the clubhouse. And it came out in 2000 I believe, so it would make more sense that they'd be watching that in 2001 when it came to DVD.

Brian26
01-24-2005, 10:50 PM
I think you might be confusing stories. I thought the Meet the Parents thing had to do with Von Joshua being pissed at Sox players (IIRC, Clayton was the main guy) who were watching Meet the Parents instead of hitting tapes, and this is when they got off to a 14-29 start. Joshua was fired shortly thereafter.

He is confusing stories totally.

The Meet the Parents thing involved Von Joshua. Soon afterward, Joshua was fired and replaced with Gary Ward. KW listened to the players on that.

The table-turning incident happened after that. Totally unrelated. KW was taking some frustration out on an underachieving club. Can't remember if it happened in early 2003 or late 2002...I want to say it was early 2003.

Brian26
01-24-2005, 10:53 PM
Was 02 the year Von Joshua was fired? I know he and that movie coincide somehow. I thought that Meet the Parents thing was 2001...instead of taking BP, some of the guys were watching that movie in the clubhouse. And it came out in 2000 I believe, so it would make more sense that they'd be watching that in 2001 when it came to DVD.

Just did a quick search on this:

Gary Ward replaced Von Joshua in 2001.

Greg Walker replaced Ward in May 2003.

So, the Meet the Parents thing must have happened with Kenny Lofton and Clayton in mid 2001.

The Table-turning incident must have happened in mid 2002.

batmanZoSo
01-24-2005, 10:55 PM
Just did a quick search on this:

Gary Ward replaced Von Joshua in 2001.

Greg Walker replaced Ward in May 2003.

So, the Meet the Parents thing must have happened with Kenny Lofton and Clayton in mid 2001.

The Table-turning incident must have happened in mid 2002.

Lofton was an Indian in 2001 though.

I remember Graffanino was watching that movie...among others.

We'll crack it eventually.

FightingBillini
01-24-2005, 10:55 PM
Just did a quick search on this:

Gary Ward replaced Von Joshua in 2001.

Greg Walker replaced Ward in May 2003.

So, the Meet the Parents thing must have happened with Kenny Lofton and Clayton in mid 2001.

The Table-turning incident must have happened in mid 2002.

No, Lofton was on the team in 2002.

I found out the Meet the Parents DVD went on sale March 6, 2001. That doesn't really narrow it down, though:(:

Brian26
01-24-2005, 10:59 PM
Lofton was an Indian in 2001 though.

I remember Graffanino was watching that movie...among others.

We'll crack it eventually.

Argh! You're right. KLo was on the Sox in 2002. Ok, let me search again...

batmanZoSo
01-24-2005, 11:01 PM
If this team is caught watching Meet the Fockers instead of taking BP, I'll be royally pissed. :cool:

Brian26
01-24-2005, 11:02 PM
Ok- Here's verification that Von Joshua was fired in May of 2001 and replaced with Gary Ward. Just pulled this off a site:


The White Sox occupy the caboose of the ALC with a 14-27 record. In week six they lost Frank Thomas. This week they punished hitting coach Von Joshua for their slow start by firing him. Let's see how much their record improves for the remainder of the season without Joshua.

So, is it possible that Kenny Lofton wasn't watching Meet the Parents? Was that Royce Clayton instead?

Brian26
01-24-2005, 11:04 PM
Streak reaches 7

(May 21)

Short Take: Add "sleepy" to the list of ailments

The plane leaving Oakland was delayed for mechanical problems. The throwback uniforms they were suppose to wear didn't fit, and Chris Singleton needs more lumber from Albert Belle's bat rack. Has anybody on the White Sox ever heard of Federal Express?

Von Joshua is long gone but the Sox losing streak keeps on going, 10-3 losers on Victoria Day in Toronto.

The announcers are openly critical of the team's current play. Magglio Ordonez was especially ripped after several lethargic plays in the field and at the plate. John Rooney suggested it would be better if he wasn't even here. Jose Valentin was picked off first base because he failed to slide on a pick off play. Has anyone else noticed Gary Pettis's role in the 2001 team's pathetic showing on the base paths this year?

The boneheaded play was especially costly because it reduced Ray Durham's homer to a simple solo shot. Paul Konerko and Jeff Liefer each added solo dingers of their own which accounted for all three of the Sox runs in this game. Besides the dingers, the Sox managed just three hits all day.

Somewhere Von Joshua is laughing.

Rocky Biddle was torched early and left in the third inning Jon Garland was effective in two innings work, but the Sox were already hopelessly behind. Sure it was only a 7-2 score, but the way the Sox offense is playing, it might have taken 18 innings to score seven runs!

Balls were misplayed on the artificial turf surface, cutoff men were missed, pitchers fell behind in the count, and generally the Sox left no doubt that they wished they were still in bed. None of Jerry Manuel's sub-.150 trio made it into the line up but the team looked so lethargic, you half-expected the Sox to call timeout after 4.5 innings for a siesta--or whatever Canadians do to break up a Victoria Day holiday.

The Pale Hose get to sleep late on Tuesday before starting the series again on Wednesday. Sox Fans are sure they'll spend their off-day taking extra batting practice for their new hitting coach Gary Ward.

Not if "Meet the Parents" is playing in the clubhouse.

FightingBillini
01-24-2005, 11:04 PM
So, is it possible that Kenny Lofton wasn't watching Meet the Parents? Was that Royce Clayton instead?

I hadn't heard Clayton involved in this situation. The Clayton thing was when he was asked to pinch run but couldn't. He didnt have cleats on because he wasn't starting. He was pissed so he just wore sneakers.

batmanZoSo
01-24-2005, 11:05 PM
Ok- Here's verification that Von Joshua was fired in May of 2001 and replaced with Gary Ward. Just pulled this off a site:


The White Sox occupy the caboose of the ALC with a 14-27 record. In week six they lost Frank Thomas. This week they punished hitting coach Von Joshua for their slow start by firing him. Let's see how much their record improves for the remainder of the season without Joshua.

So, is it possible that Kenny Lofton wasn't watching Meet the Parents? Was that Royce Clayton instead?

I'm sure it was. That was a banner year for Roycie. There's no way that clown ever practiced hitting that year.

I'm pretty sure Maggs and Lee were among those watching. And I know it was more than just Royce or any one player.

FightingBillini
01-24-2005, 11:08 PM
I'm sure it was. That was a banner year for Roycie. There's no way that clown ever practiced hitting that year.

I'm pretty sure Maggs and Lee were among those watching. And I know it was more than just Royce or any one player.

I remember reading specifically that Lofton was involved.

batmanZoSo
01-24-2005, 11:11 PM
Streak reaches 7

(May 21)

Short Take: Add "sleepy" to the list of ailments

The plane leaving Oakland was delayed for mechanical problems. The throwback uniforms they were suppose to wear didn't fit, and Chris Singleton needs more lumber from Albert Belle's bat rack. Has anybody on the White Sox ever heard of Federal Express?

Von Joshua is long gone but the Sox losing streak keeps on going, 10-3 losers on Victoria Day in Toronto.

The announcers are openly critical of the team's current play. Magglio Ordonez was especially ripped after several lethargic plays in the field and at the plate. John Rooney suggested it would be better if he wasn't even here. Jose Valentin was picked off first base because he failed to slide on a pick off play. Has anyone else noticed Gary Pettis's role in the 2001 team's pathetic showing on the base paths this year?

The boneheaded play was especially costly because it reduced Ray Durham's homer to a simple solo shot. Paul Konerko and Jeff Liefer each added solo dingers of their own which accounted for all three of the Sox runs in this game. Besides the dingers, the Sox managed just three hits all day.

Somewhere Von Joshua is laughing.

Rocky Biddle was torched early and left in the third inning Jon Garland was effective in two innings work, but the Sox were already hopelessly behind. Sure it was only a 7-2 score, but the way the Sox offense is playing, it might have taken 18 innings to score seven runs!

Balls were misplayed on the artificial turf surface, cutoff men were missed, pitchers fell behind in the count, and generally the Sox left no doubt that they wished they were still in bed. None of Jerry Manuel's sub-.150 trio made it into the line up but the team looked so lethargic, you half-expected the Sox to call timeout after 4.5 innings for a siesta--or whatever Canadians do to break up a Victoria Day holiday.

The Pale Hose get to sleep late on Tuesday before starting the series again on Wednesday. Sox Fans are sure they'll spend their off-day taking extra batting practice for their new hitting coach Gary Ward.

Not if "Meet the Parents" is playing in the clubhouse.

God, I remember that exact game in Toronto, when I officially stopped watching for about two months. I was helping my sister paint her new house and the game was on this little crappy 10 inch TV left over from the previous owner with rabbit ears and after one of those 2001 style bonehead plays, I whacked the screen with a hammer.

That was not a fun year. :cool:

batmanZoSo
01-24-2005, 11:12 PM
I remember reading specifically that Lofton was involved.

No you don't. This happened before he was even on the team.

infohawk
01-24-2005, 11:14 PM
I hadn't heard Clayton involved in this situation. The Clayton thing was when he was asked to pinch run but couldn't. He didnt have cleats on because he wasn't starting. He was pissed so he just wore sneakers.

I seem to remember that one of the names surrounding the "Meet the Parents" video was Carlos Lee. The story does involve Von Joshua, however, who was very frustrated that the players were choosing to watch the video instead of taking batting practice.

Brian26
01-24-2005, 11:18 PM
Wait ĎTil Next Year

Here it is, May 24th, and already there is no need to go to Comiskey Park. Frank Thomas and Jim Parque have had their surgeries and are out for the season. The team is mired in last place, and the clubhouse is in disarray. Jose Valentin lashed out at his teammates for not caring last week. Reportedly, the main offenders are Royce Clayton and Harold Baines among a couple of others. Players werenít listening to hitting coach Von Joshua, instead several chose to watch the Ban Stiller/Robert DeNiro film ďMeet The Parents.Ē A day later, Joshua was on the unemployment line. Joshua reportedly told Baines that Willie Mays and Pete Rose made adjustments in their batting stance once they reached the age of 40, but Baines refused to alter his method despite hitting a paltry .129. Last week, I wrote that the team was looking to trade David Wells, which was denied at the time, but the Chicago Tribune reports this week that the Sox are looking to create a bidding war for Wells by the July 31st trading deadline. Reportedly, Wells has been told and has given the team the green light to trade him. Reportedly, the Sox have pulled the plug on the ďitís TimeĒ advertising, meaning that the front office has joined the players in throwing in the towel already. What happened? Were the Sox further away from contention than last year indicated? Injuries are part of the game, but who knew that Parque was as damaged as Mike Sirotka, who was sent to Toronto for Wells. Royce Clayton canít break a grape with a bat and has become a clubhouse cancer, forcing Valentin back to the infield. Where is the leadership from the likes of Carlos Lee, Maglio Ordonez, Ray Durham and others? Why isnít Jerry Manuel kicking people in the ass like he did to Frank Thomas before last season? Is an entire team to go down the tubes because one man, admittedly a great player, is out for the year? What happened to teams that donít give up? Life is too short to write off an entire year so early, and baseball is the perfect sport for that; thatís why they play 162 games. So, since the team on the field, the front office and everyone else has thrown in the towel, even before the Cubsí annual June swoon, I ask again, what reason is there to go to Comiskey Park? To watch the opposition, I suppose. Itís too bad that the Sox donít have a beautiful ballpark like the Cubs, so you could go just for that. The whole thing personally disgusts me. I always believed that you play until the last out; you keep trying until the day is done. Besides, Wells has another year on his contract and next year, Thomas comes back. But I guess that is not the way in the new economy of baseball. Jerry Reinsdorf has pulled the rug out from under the White Sox season. Reinsdorf isnít alone. What happened to the players? What excuse do they have for giving up? One thing I do know: I donít want to hear one complaint from players or management when they wonder why the fans didnít show up this season. I want to watch someone who gives a damnÖ.

OG4LIFE
01-24-2005, 11:40 PM
Wait ĎTil Next Year





Here it is, May 24th, and already there is no need to go to Comiskey Park. Frank Thomas and Jim Parque have had their surgeries and are out for the season. The team is mired in last place, and the clubhouse is in disarray. Jose Valentin lashed out at his teammates for not caring last week. Reportedly, the main offenders are Royce Clayton and Harold Baines among a couple of others. Players werenít listening to hitting coach Von Joshua, instead several chose to watch the Ban Stiller/Robert DeNiro film ďMeet The Parents.Ē A day later, Joshua was on the unemployment line. Joshua reportedly told Baines that Willie Mays and Pete Rose made adjustments in their batting stance once they reached the age of 40, but Baines refused to alter his method despite hitting a paltry .129. Last week, I wrote that the team was looking to trade David Wells, which was denied at the time, but the Chicago Tribune reports this week that the Sox are looking to create a bidding war for Wells by the July 31st trading deadline. Reportedly, Wells has been told and has given the team the green light to trade him. Reportedly, the Sox have pulled the plug on the ďitís TimeĒ advertising, meaning that the front office has joined the players in throwing in the towel already. What happened? Were the Sox further away from contention than last year indicated? Injuries are part of the game, but who knew that Parque was as damaged as Mike Sirotka, who was sent to Toronto for Wells. Royce Clayton canít break a grape with a bat and has become a clubhouse cancer, forcing Valentin back to the infield. Where is the leadership from the likes of Carlos Lee, Maglio Ordonez, Ray Durham and others? Why isnít Jerry Manuel kicking people in the ass like he did to Frank Thomas before last season? Is an entire team to go down the tubes because one man, admittedly a great player, is out for the year? What happened to teams that donít give up? Life is too short to write off an entire year so early, and baseball is the perfect sport for that; thatís why they play 162 games. So, since the team on the field, the front office and everyone else has thrown in the towel, even before the Cubsí annual June swoon, I ask again, what reason is there to go to Comiskey Park? To watch the opposition, I suppose. Itís too bad that the Sox donít have a beautiful ballpark like the Cubs, so you could go just for that. The whole thing personally disgusts me. I always believed that you play until the last out; you keep trying until the day is done. Besides, Wells has another year on his contract and next year, Thomas comes back. But I guess that is not the way in the new economy of baseball. Jerry Reinsdorf has pulled the rug out from under the White Sox season. Reinsdorf isnít alone. What happened to the players? What excuse do they have for giving up? One thing I do know: I donít want to hear one complaint from players or management when they wonder why the fans didnít show up this season. I want to watch someone who gives a damnÖ.

fun to look back at things and realize how bad/screwed up the past core of the team really was- guys who had talent that apparently didnt care (lee, ordonez), and guys who did care but didnt have the talent to make as much a difference (valentin).

so, did KW flip over the table during this meet the parents ordeal, in 2001 as indicated?

Lip Man 1
01-25-2005, 12:52 PM
The Williams incident happened after an uninspired loss to the Orioles in 2002.

Lip

Ol' No. 2
01-25-2005, 01:10 PM
Wait ĎTil Next Year

Here it is, May 24th, and already there is no need to go to Comiskey Park. Frank Thomas and Jim Parque have had their surgeries and are out for the season. The team is mired in last place, and the clubhouse is in disarray. Jose Valentin lashed out at his teammates for not caring last week. Reportedly, the main offenders are Royce Clayton and Harold Baines among a couple of others. Players werenít listening to hitting coach Von Joshua, instead several chose to watch the Ban Stiller/Robert DeNiro film ďMeet The Parents.Ē A day later, Joshua was on the unemployment line. Joshua reportedly told Baines that Willie Mays and Pete Rose made adjustments in their batting stance once they reached the age of 40, but Baines refused to alter his method despite hitting a paltry .129. Last week, I wrote that the team was looking to trade David Wells, which was denied at the time, but the Chicago Tribune reports this week that the Sox are looking to create a bidding war for Wells by the July 31st trading deadline. Reportedly, Wells has been told and has given the team the green light to trade him. Reportedly, the Sox have pulled the plug on the ďitís TimeĒ advertising, meaning that the front office has joined the players in throwing in the towel already. What happened? Were the Sox further away from contention than last year indicated? Injuries are part of the game, but who knew that Parque was as damaged as Mike Sirotka, who was sent to Toronto for Wells. Royce Clayton canít break a grape with a bat and has become a clubhouse cancer, forcing Valentin back to the infield. Where is the leadership from the likes of Carlos Lee, Maglio Ordonez, Ray Durham and others? Why isnít Jerry Manuel kicking people in the ass like he did to Frank Thomas before last season? Is an entire team to go down the tubes because one man, admittedly a great player, is out for the year? What happened to teams that donít give up? Life is too short to write off an entire year so early, and baseball is the perfect sport for that; thatís why they play 162 games. So, since the team on the field, the front office and everyone else has thrown in the towel, even before the Cubsí annual June swoon, I ask again, what reason is there to go to Comiskey Park? To watch the opposition, I suppose. Itís too bad that the Sox donít have a beautiful ballpark like the Cubs, so you could go just for that. The whole thing personally disgusts me. I always believed that you play until the last out; you keep trying until the day is done. Besides, Wells has another year on his contract and next year, Thomas comes back. But I guess that is not the way in the new economy of baseball. Jerry Reinsdorf has pulled the rug out from under the White Sox season. Reinsdorf isnít alone. What happened to the players? What excuse do they have for giving up? One thing I do know: I donít want to hear one complaint from players or management when they wonder why the fans didnít show up this season. I want to watch someone who gives a damnÖ. My God, I'd forgotten how a season that started with such promise turned so dismal so quickly. They had something like 5 players hitting below the Mendoza line, and Jerry kept juggling the order but still resolutely played all 5 every day. Sox pitchers had so many torn rotator cuffs they had their own wing in the hospital. Baines was desperately trying to reach 3000 hits, and was making Joe Borchard look like Joe DiMaggio. Finally, Harold took one in the mouth and never came back, ending that pitiful display. And then, to cap it all off, Jerry refused to play the September call-ups so he could try to catch the Twins for second place (he didn't). Ugh. My stomach is turning just thinking about it.

Palehose13
01-25-2005, 01:26 PM
The Williams incident happened after an uninspired loss to the Orioles in 2002.

Lip

Any more details, Lip?

Unregistered
01-25-2005, 02:17 PM
Any more details, Lip?IIRC, KW walked into the clubhouse, flipped over a buffett table and called the team "bitches and mother****ers." :o:

jackbrohamer
01-25-2005, 02:38 PM
My God, I'd forgotten how a season that started with such promise turned so dismal so quickly. They had something like 5 players hitting below the Mendoza line, and Jerry kept juggling the order but still resolutely played all 5 every day.

I don't ever remember a team hitting as badly as that team did the first 6 weeks of the season. It was unbelievable how cold they were, even guys who hit in the past. And it's amazing how few players from that team are still here.

ja1022
01-25-2005, 02:46 PM
IIRC, KW walked into the clubhouse, flipped over a buffett table and called the team "bitches and mother****ers." :o:

And then KW added:

"You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Jerry!"

Jerry: "Lollygaggers!"

KW: "Lollygaggers."

Baby Fisk
01-25-2005, 02:53 PM
IIRC, KW walked into the clubhouse, flipped over a buffett table and called the team "bitches and mother****ers." :o:
:KW
"What the--? Which one of you PIGS emptied out that box of Krispy Kremes?! You know I LOVE the Krispy Kremes! You sons of bitches! Where's all the damn Krispy Kremes at? They movin' through YOUR bony ass, Wunsch? DAMMIT! You's all a bunch of bitches and mother****ers!"

*overturns buffet table in a rage*

Unregistered
01-25-2005, 03:18 PM
Then there was some talk about "shenanigans," and whether or not the White Sox engaged in "cheeky shenanigans" or "evil shenanigans" to which KW professed:

:KW
"I swear I'll pistol-whip the next person who says shenanigans."

:walnuts
"Hey Garland, what's that place with the buffalo wings and all the crap on the walls?"
:jon
"Shenanigans?"
:walnuts :kelly :hurt
"oooooooh..."









(heh, sorry - saw Super Troopers again last night... love that movie... :D: )