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View Full Version : Could this off-season have went any better?


anewman35
01-24-2005, 09:20 PM
Using the payroll the team has now ($72 million or so), can anybody think of any (realistic) things that KW could have done better than he did? I pretty much can't. Even things that looked bad at the time (not getting Omar or Clement) ended up working out in the end. Any other thoughts?

delben91
01-24-2005, 09:23 PM
I think KW did as much as anyone could've done with the cards and budget dealt him. It seems he and Ozzie (I'm only assuming) sat down and really came up with a plan for the type of players they wanted to go after. Some of these guys have risks, like El Duque and the injury issue, and whether Iguchi's stats can come close to translating (sorry for the pun) over to the US. However, all things considered, my hat is off to KW. Bring on opening day!

HoustonAstros967
01-24-2005, 09:26 PM
At first i was very critical of the White Sox after they didn't sign Vizquel or Clement but now that the offseason is almost over i really think we did well. Our pitching is very good with the addition of el duque, i still hate garland but i can't complain, and i think that pods and dye could be big difference makers this season. I'm predicting .290 for pods (but he will have 62 steals) and a .280 for dye but with 34 homeruns. Add frank into the mix and rowand and u've got a team!!!! WHITE SOX 2005!

balke
01-24-2005, 09:26 PM
We could've signed Beltran and had him play CF and LF or RJ and dumped half the pitching staff

DVsoxfan
01-24-2005, 09:27 PM
KW is great. I hope this will shut up some of the KW doubters for awhile. KW deserves our respect. He does the best he can with the budget he has, and puts a competative team out there on the field every year. What else could we ask for from a GM?? Thanks a bunch KW, you rock.

veeter
01-24-2005, 09:35 PM
Kenny is probably the most creative GM in baseball, simply because he has to be. That's not to say the moves he pulls off are simple. Kenny gets it. He's on the same wave length as Sox fans and all intelligent baseball minds. I know he's said to himself, "God, I just wish he'd give me more to spend!" But he makes the best with what he has and gets. This off-season though, has been his benchmark. So no, this off-season could not have gone any better.

MarkZ35
01-24-2005, 09:41 PM
I think KW did a heck of a job with what he has to work with. Probably the only low point in my eyes was not signing Vizquel in the beginning of the offseason but he made up for it with Iguchi. KEEP IT COMING KENNY

idseer
01-24-2005, 09:47 PM
Using the payroll the team has now ($72 million or so), can anybody think of any (realistic) things that KW could have done better than he did? I pretty much can't. Even things that looked bad at the time (not getting Omar or Clement) ended up working out in the end. Any other thoughts?

i posted this a month or so ago ...

every sox fan should be able to see that unless there's an unexpected change in ownership's methods we will be much worse this coming year. the sox have to struggle just to be as good a team next year as they were last. other teams are improving while we try to maintain the status quo which means 3rd or 4th place.

we're at least 3 years away from being serious again. and THAT is if the sox AIM for '07! if they spend stupidly (RJ or some other big name 40 year old) we'll be looking at '10 or the sox's ownership demise before having anything to get excited about again.

there really was no unexpected change except perhaps kw was allowed a little more money to work with.
obviously, i thought we were in the toilet this coming season. i had fears of giving away good players for one big star leaving big holes all over the field or trading away the rest of our kids for washed up vets with the hope we'd get one more good year out of them.

so i am ecstatic with what kenny has been able to create from the bad situation we were looking at. i believe no sox fan could ask for more of this upcoming season.

JUribe1989
01-24-2005, 09:50 PM
KW did the best possible job. He filled every hole that we had in my opinion. The 2005 White Sox will be my favorite baseball team of all time.

Ol' No. 2
01-24-2005, 09:53 PM
i posted this a month or so ago ...



there really was no unexpected change except perhaps kw was allowed a little more money to work with.
obviously, i thought we were in the toilet this coming season. i had fears of giving away good players for one big star leaving big holes all over the field or trading away the rest of our kids for washed up vets with the hope we'd get one more good year out of them.

so i am ecstatic with what kenny has been able to create from the bad situation we were looking at. i believe no sox fan could ask for more of this upcoming season.That's it. It's official.
http://www.prisonsandjails.com/humor/images/hell-freezes.jpg

Soxzilla
01-24-2005, 10:03 PM
That's it. It's official.
http://www.prisonsandjails.com/humor/images/hell-freezes.jpg

I think I needed to repost this to get the full effect.

I never thought I'd SEER the day,:wink: idseer.

Nard
01-24-2005, 10:31 PM
RJ, Clement, anybody.

If Contreras starts pitching awful again or El Duque gets injured, our rotation is garbage again.

Besides that this is an excellent, excellent job. But there's no room for any SPs to get injured.

idseer
01-24-2005, 10:35 PM
RJ, Clement, anybody.

If Contreras starts pitching awful again or El Duque gets injured, our rotation is garbage again.

Besides that this is an excellent, excellent job. But there's no room for any SPs to get injured.

but that holds true for every team in the majors.

otoh, the sox do have some good potential coming up.

ondafarm
01-24-2005, 10:36 PM
KW did the best possible job. He filled every hole that we had in my opinion. The 2005 White Sox will be my favorite baseball team of all time.


I've never been much of a fan of KW, but I have to say, I think he has done very well this off-season. The Sox now have almost an excess in every major area at least as I analyze it like this:

SP - 5 quality guys (or at least 4 and Garland, who does eat up innings)
RP - bit of a battle for closer (Takatsu and Marte) plus solid set-up men

C - proven starter, battle for back-up
IF - a battle at every position,
3B - Crede vs Uribe, SS - Uribe vs Valdez, 2B - Iguchi vs Harris
1B - Konerko vs Gload
OF - Rowand, Podsednik and Dye plus Everett
DH - Thomas and Everett

Not all of these are likely to be straight up competitions, if Frank can go at DH, he will play. Iguchi will get a lot more playing time than Harris at 2nd, but this roster gives the Sox solid lefty-righty possibilities, solid defense and plenty of speed. Power is decent, particularly if Frank is back sooner rather than later.

FightingBillini
01-24-2005, 10:39 PM
Well, after the Lee trade, we could have spun Podsenik to Arizona for Randy Johnson straight up. They we could have traded Garland to the Yankees for Vazquez and cash. Im sure KW could have convinced Carlos Beltran to sign here for $5mil a year because we have such a good fan base and a great team. Then the Sox could have traded Ben Davis and Joe Borchard for Victor Martinez, and traded Willie Harris to Florida for Luis Castilloand Guillermo Mota. We then could trade Politte and cash for Scott Rolen. Oh wait, you said any REALISTIC things...

No, I can't think of a realistic way things could have gone better.

santo=dorf
01-24-2005, 10:40 PM
RJ, Clement, anybody.

If Contreras starts pitching awful again or El Duque gets injured, our rotation is garbage again.

Besides that this is an excellent, excellent job. But there's no room for any SPs to get injured.

And which team in the majors can afford one of their starting pitchers to go down?
Sheez.

Hell, when was the last time Sox had 5 serviceable starters? :?:

batmanZoSo
01-24-2005, 10:44 PM
Instead of Hernandez, Hermanson, Vizcaino, Podsednik, Pierzynski and Iguchi, we could've had Beltran.

It couldn't have been better. I always felt we were lacking in the Russian fan demographic, but with Podsednik on the team we'll definitely tap that market. :cool:

Fake Chet Lemon
01-24-2005, 11:32 PM
Visquel will be 40 at the end of his contract and probably stealing money in that third year. Iguchi is only 30 and makes half as much. KW comes out smelling like a rose on that, and everything else. He's the man, it's all in Ozzie's hands now.

Fake Chet Lemon
01-24-2005, 11:35 PM
RJ, Clement, anybody.

If Contreras starts pitching awful again or El Duque gets injured, our rotation is garbage again.

Besides that this is an excellent, excellent job. But there's no room for any SPs to get injured.


Hermansen has been a very good spot starter when needed. So we aren't dead in the water anymore if there is an injury to a starter.

OurBitchinMinny
01-25-2005, 02:39 AM
Using the payroll the team has now ($72 million or so), can anybody think of any (realistic) things that KW could have done better than he did? I pretty much can't. Even things that looked bad at the time (not getting Omar or Clement) ended up working out in the end. Any other thoughts?

yeah if maggs was here and healthy and lee was still here and they had a payroll on par with the cubs. But all things considered, it was a solid offseason and they had to make some changes and improved, at least on paper, all aspects except power.

bc2k
01-25-2005, 03:43 AM
Using the payroll the team has now ($72 million or so), can anybody think of any (realistic) things that KW could have done better than he did?

I can't. KW did a great job this offseason. Thank you Mr. Williams. :gulp:

What is so telling about KW's offseason is that even those who disagree with the Go-Go philosophy admit that this team is built to succeed.

I still wish Crede wasn't on the team, but understand why he is: cost to upside ratio.

akingamongstmen
01-25-2005, 09:34 AM
He's gone above and beyond to mold this team into a winner. I can't wait to see these guys play. :)

jabrch
01-25-2005, 10:02 AM
Hermansen has been a very good spot starter when needed. So we aren't dead in the water anymore if there is an injury to a starter.

That's a really good point. I wouldn't expect much more than 5 innings from him if we needed to spot start him, but we could do it in a pinch if none of the minor league guys are ready/able to do it. What is exciting to me is that we won't have to rush any of the kids into playing. We can leave them in the minors and then see if anyone develops and is ready to step in next year.

Dadawg_77
01-25-2005, 10:55 AM
KW is great. I hope this will shut up some of the KW doubters for awhile. KW deserves our respect. He does the best he can with the budget he has, and puts a competative team out there on the field every year. What else could we ask for from a GM?? Thanks a bunch KW, you rock.

I don't know how about a playoff appearance?

eshunn2001
01-25-2005, 11:24 AM
You gotta love what KW has done. He filled every hole we had. I think this team will probably start off a bit slow and turn it up around late june early July. And I hear alot of people ripping on Garland, Now I know he has not lived up tp expectations but a .500 200+ ip 5th starter is fine by me. And if he shows the improvement we have all been waiting for all the better. I am Damn excited about the 2005 White Sox.




Happy Birthday to ME!!!!!!!!! Thanks KW

stl_sox_fan
01-25-2005, 11:40 AM
This Sox certainly have undergone the biggest facelift during this offseason. For once it's not the Yankees.
I've been hearing people say the we should've traded for Randy Johnson or Beltran. I'm not comfortable with the salary that these two were demanding. Johnson(16mil) can't have much gas left in him and Beltran had a really great last three months of last season. But to dump that much salary(9mil for 7yrs) is way to risky. Thought the Mets would have learned from the Mo Vaughn incident. Current Sox squad has me loooking pretty optimistic for '05.

Spring training will be interesting to see if all the new guys can gel.

hold2dibber
01-25-2005, 01:01 PM
KW has done a pretty good job, but far from perfect. First, I thought OBP was one of the team's biggest off-season issues, but I'm not certain that that has been addressed (Pods had a horrible .313 OBP last year and Iguchi is a huge ? in my mind). I see much more speed on the team and better overall pitching, 1 through 12, than last year. But less power and no improvement defensively. Overall, I'd give him a B+ - he has shaken up a team that badly needed shaking up, has improved the pitching staff and invigorated the fan base. Not sure how it will translate on the field yet, but they certainly seem to have enough talent and balance to contend in the AL Central.

gosox41
01-25-2005, 01:02 PM
I think KW did as much as anyone could've done with the cards and budget dealt him. It seems he and Ozzie (I'm only assuming) sat down and really came up with a plan for the type of players they wanted to go after. Some of these guys have risks, like El Duque and the injury issue, and whether Iguchi's stats can come close to translating (sorry for the pun) over to the US. However, all things considered, my hat is off to KW. Bring on opening day!

Me too. It took KW 4 years, but he finally figured out the need to have 5 real starting pitchers. Hopefully he won't make that mistake again in the future.


Bob

mdep524
01-25-2005, 01:59 PM
About a month ago I wrote something like "if KW gets both Pierzynski and Iguchi, it will be an A offseason." Well, he met the criteria so he gets an A!

My only qualms are about the starting pitching and lack of OBP. Signing Iguchi will hopefully help in the second category, but I still am very skeptical of the starters. My only hope is that El Duque can somehow impart some Cuban Connection wisdom to El Blockhead Contreras. Otherwise it could end up being our own version of "Spahn and Sain and pray for rain." Except it would be "Garcia and Buehrle and the fans all leave early."



.....OK, if you can think of a better line then let's hear it.

Rush20
01-25-2005, 02:05 PM
I think KW did an excellent job this off-season. However with that said, I really wish we could have re-signed Maggs for a 1-year incentive heavy deal. I know I will probably get flamed for this, however Maggs was my favorite player and I would have liked to see him remain with the SOX.

I don't want to rehash the he said/she said routine, however after the failed Boston deal last year, I think the relationship soured. Combine that with the fact the Joe Borchard was unable to claim the RF Heir position, Kenny opted for Dye.

Hopefully Dye will have a strong season to make me forget about Maggs, however it's going to be tough not rooting for him anymore. (It will be much easier if he signs with the Cubs). :mad:

It would have been nice to sign Clement and move Garland, however at least Garland is now if the proper 5th spot of the rotation. If he can win 13-16 games from that position, we should be OK.

Bring on the season!!!! Good job Kenny!

DVsoxfan
01-25-2005, 03:30 PM
I don't know how about a playoff appearance?The GM can't control how the team plays. He can only handle personnel, the playing/winning is up to the players/manager. And as far as personnel he had done his best to give us a shot. You can't blame KW for us not making the playoffs, he's done his best to put a competative team on the field each year.

Dadawg_77
01-25-2005, 03:39 PM
You can't blame KW for us not making the playoffs, he's done his best to put a competative team on the field each year.

He is the man in charge of putting the pieces in place, if the pieces don't add up like any other manager, he is cupable for that. This isn't kindergarten, I don't care if he has done his best if it isn't good enough. If a player is giving his best but just can't hit, you don't let him keep his spot, but you cut him. Same goes with the GM and manager of the team.

anewman35
01-25-2005, 03:41 PM
He is the man in charge of putting the pieces in place, if the pieces don't add up like any other manager, he is cupable for that. This isn't kindergarten, I don't care if he has done his best if it isn't good enough. If a player is giving his best but just can't hit, you don't let him keep his spot, but you cut him. Same goes with the GM and manager of the team.

The GM's job is to built the best team possible. Once it's built, there's not much he can do. Can a GM be blamed for injuries? Or slumps? Or good players having horrible seasons?

DVsoxfan
01-25-2005, 03:42 PM
The GM's job is to built the best team possible. Once it's built, there's not much he can do. Can a GM be blamed for injuries? Or slumps? Or good players having horrible seasons?

Yea thats what I was trying to say. You said it better than I did though. I agree 100%

Dadawg_77
01-25-2005, 03:44 PM
The GM's job is to built the best team possible. Once it's built, there's not much he can do. Can a GM be blamed for injuries? Or slumps? Or good players having horrible seasons?

If the team doesn't succeed was it really the best team possible? The fact remains the GM is responsible for the team and its performance. CEO don't get a break if they hire the wrong personal for a job so why should a GM. The buck stops at the GM's desk.

anewman35
01-25-2005, 03:46 PM
If the team doesn't succeed was it really the best team possible? The fact remains the GM is responsible for the team and its performance. CEO don't get a break if they hire the wrong personal for a job so why should a GM. The buck stops at the GM's desk.

That doesn't answer my question, really. Is Kenny a bad GM because Frank and Mags got hurt last year? Would Theo Epstein or Billy Beane have carried Frank so he didn't hurt his foot and run out on the field to save Magglio from hitting Willie Harris?

Dadawg_77
01-25-2005, 03:51 PM
That doesn't answer my question, really. Is Kenny a bad GM because Frank and Mags got hurt last year? Would Theo Epstein or Billy Beane have carried Frank so he didn't hurt his foot and run out on the field to save Magglio from hitting Willie Harris?

Would they have a backup plan instead of acquiring Everett? The fact is Kenny's supporters always want to remove any responsibility Kenny has for the years 2001-2004. Some of what happen in the past, like Jabrch says, is Kenny’s fault.

DVsoxfan
01-25-2005, 03:54 PM
Would they have a backup plan instead of acquiring Everett? The fact is Kenny's supporters always want to remove any responsibility Kenny has for the years 2001-2004. Some of what happen in the past, like Jabrch says, is Kenny’s fault.

Didnt he try to trade for Delgado and/or Larry Walker...but neither of them waved their trade clauses...?

Dadawg_77
01-25-2005, 04:00 PM
Didnt he try to trade for Delgado and/or Larry Walker...but neither of them waved their trade clauses...?

Ever see that poster "All I need to know I learned from Star Wars"? One great lesson on there is "There is no try, just do or do not".

DVsoxfan
01-25-2005, 04:03 PM
Ever see that poster "All I need to know I learned from Star Wars"? One great lesson on there is "There is no try, just do or do not".

Its not KW's fault they didnt wave their no trade clauses however

anewman35
01-25-2005, 04:28 PM
Would they have a backup plan instead of acquiring Everett? The fact is Kenny's supporters always want to remove any responsibility Kenny has for the years 2001-2004. Some of what happen in the past, like Jabrch says, is Kenny’s fault.

Some is Kenny's fault, sure. But name me any GM in the majors who would have had a backup plan for losing Frank Thomas and Magglio Ordonez.

Dadawg_77
01-25-2005, 04:33 PM
Some is Kenny's fault, sure. But name me any GM in the majors who would have had a backup plan for losing Frank Thomas and Magglio Ordonez.

Not many, but this isn't just about one year but four. Sox could have brought up Reed, who hit .397 in limited action with Seattle last year.

anewman35
01-25-2005, 04:49 PM
Not many, but this isn't just about one year but four. Sox could have brought up Reed, who hit .397 in limited action with Seattle last year.

Um. We traded Jeremy Reed on June 27th. IIRC, At that point, Thomas was still healthy and Ordonez was expected back soon.

gobears1987
01-25-2005, 10:58 PM
yeah if maggs was here and healthy and lee was still here and they had a payroll on par with the cubs. But all things considered, it was a solid offseason and they had to make some changes and improved, at least on paper, all aspects except power.
If we had Maggs and Lee, then we'd be back to the days of swinging to the fences and the innevitable result of it :corpseball

Tragg
01-25-2005, 11:18 PM
I think Williams made a serious effort at solving our weaknesses and overall, he did about the best he could. I suspect some of his answers aren't going to be answers, but we'll see. (for example, I don't think our up the middle defense will improve, but boy I hope it does).

I would have done some things differently - I wouldn't have lowballed Clement eg. I would pay a little more attention (a lot, actually) to players getting on base, v free-swingers.


But overall, we should be better; we'll certainly be different and I can't wait to see us play.

The offensive keys to this season to me are: Is Rowand for real or was last year a fluke; secondarily, was last season a fluke for Posednik or can he really play leadoff in the majors?

I think the key to our real future, beyond this year, is whether Crede and Garland can develop into above average major league players; whether one of those minor league outfielders develops into a stud major leaguer; and whether Uribe can play major league shortstop for 140 or so games. In a couple of years, contracts for Dye, Duque etc will be over, and if we can fill some of our own holes internally, we can sign some over-the-top players. Then we can make a serious WS run.

This looks like a team that has an 50/50 chance to win the Central to me and perhaps a 20/80 chance at a wild card. But you know, Fla and Anaheim won recent WS without the top talent in the majors, so anything can happen once you get there.

Dadawg_77
01-26-2005, 11:06 AM
I think Williams made a serious effort at solving our weaknesses and overall, he did about the best he could. I suspect some of his answers aren't going to be answers, but we'll see. (for example, I don't think our up the middle defense will improve, but boy I hope it does).

I would have done some things differently - I wouldn't have lowballed Clement eg. I would pay a little more attention (a lot, actually) to players getting on base, v free-swingers.


But overall, we should be better; we'll certainly be different and I can't wait to see us play.

The offensive keys to this season to me are: Is Rowand for real or was last year a fluke; secondarily, was last season a fluke for Posednik or can he really play leadoff in the majors?

I think the key to our real future, beyond this year, is whether Crede and Garland can develop into above average major league players; whether one of those minor league outfielders develops into a stud major leaguer; and whether Uribe can play major league shortstop for 140 or so games. In a couple of years, contracts for Dye, Duque etc will be over, and if we can fill some of our own holes internally, we can sign some over-the-top players. Then we can make a serious WS run.

This looks like a team that has an 50/50 chance to win the Central to me and perhaps a 20/80 chance at a wild card. But you know, Fla and Anaheim won recent WS without the top talent in the majors, so anything can happen once you get there.

Garland has been the defintion of average for the past three years. What we want is from him to fulfill the expectations of he had when he was 19. The rest of the questions, I agree with.