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mike squires
01-24-2005, 08:16 AM
How many years did Old Comiskey have in it? Coud it have gone another year or two. I seem to recall it was starting to get like Wrigley with falling debre and stuff. Was it savable?

Frank the Tank
01-24-2005, 08:36 AM
I'm surprised Old Comiskey lasted as long as it did. Unlike the other team in town, Old Comiskey would not be allowed to "get away" with having their ballpark fall apart.

jackbrohamer
01-24-2005, 08:48 AM
This is purely my opinion, I'm not a civil engineer. But I think Reinsdorf could have kept the place functional for a long time if he put the money into it, but the old place could not generate the skybox revenue he wanted so it was doomed no matter what.

TheBull19
01-24-2005, 08:58 AM
I think it could and SHOULD have been saved - it should have been a national historic landmark.

ZachAL
01-24-2005, 09:03 AM
I'm surprised Old Comiskey lasted as long as it did. Unlike the other team in town, Old Comiskey would not be allowed to "get away" with having their ballpark fall apart.

Didn't mayor daley threaten to close "the other team in town's" ballpark down this past season unless they did a thorough job in repairing it. I dont think the cubs are "allowed to get away with having their ballpark fall apart" either.

nccwsfan
01-24-2005, 09:03 AM
At what point was it starting to "deteriorate", as they say? If the upkeep was good and they would have added luxury suites I would think it could possibly still be around, but I don't know if the upkeep was there.

I love the Cell but I really yearn to see a game in the old place....:(:

Palehose13
01-24-2005, 09:04 AM
Like everyone else that is old enough, I have very fond memories there. However, IMO, it was time for a new park. I'm also sure that the players are happier with the new facilities. I mean, there are many fans of places like the urinal, but these people usually aren't players. On more than one occasion players have said that Wrigley isn't the best place to play. I would imagine if Old Comiskey was still standing the players would have the same sentiment. Thanks for the memories, but I am very happy with the new ballpark.

tebman
01-24-2005, 09:08 AM
How many years did Old Comiskey have in it? Coud it have gone another year or two. I seem to recall it was starting to get like Wrigley with falling debre and stuff. Was it savable?

It could have been saved, but only by a complete renovation from the ground up like Yankee Stadium was in 1975. For a few months in the late '80s most of the seats in the leftfield lower deck were blocked off because of falling concrete from the upper deck. Same problem Wrigley has now -- the concrete was old and crumbling. There were a host of other old-building problems too, like bad plumbing, ancient (and possibly hazardous) wiring, and weakened ironwork.

As much as I hate to admit it, JR and Einhorn were right when they said that the park was at the end of its useful life. Whether it could have been renovated instead of torn down is a separate question that can be debated. What gnaws at me to this day is the threat to move the Sox to Florida if JR & Company didn't get a new free ballpark from the state. It should never have come to that.

- tebman

Ol' No. 2
01-24-2005, 09:08 AM
At what point was it starting to "deteriorate", as they say? If the upkeep was good and they would have added luxury suites I would think it could possibly still be around, but I don't know if the upkeep was there.

I love the Cell but I really yearn to see a game in the old place....:(:Exactly. The problem is that it hadn't been properly maintained for years. Concrete doesn't last indefinately. They might have been able to milk it along for a few more years, but it was going to have to be replaced soon. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I like the new place better. Sightlines are better, you don't have to go down below the stands to get food or a potty break. The only seats that are worse are in the UD.

samram
01-24-2005, 09:12 AM
Like everyone else that is old enough, I have very fond memories there. However, IMO, it was time for a new park. I'm also sure that the players are happier with the new facilities. I mean, there are many fans of places like the urinal, but these people usually aren't players. On more than one occasion players have said that Wrigley isn't the best place to play. I would imagine if Old Comiskey was still standing the players would have the same sentiment. Thanks for the memories, but I am very happy with the new ballpark.

That's a good perspective because the ball park is where the players work- it's not just for the fans. I would hate it if players decided not to play for the Sox because the amenities in the clubhouse weren't as good as at other parks. I loved the old park, but I like the new one and I'm sure the players would take it over the old one.

Clembasbal
01-24-2005, 09:48 AM
I was young when I attended games there, but I do remember that right field was a dark dump. We went to about 30 games a year and sat in that area, and it was just decrepit. I like this new park, I like other newer ones a lot better, but all good things have to come to an end...Tiger Stadium is gone (well not really gone) and soon Wrigley will be gone.

dickallen15
01-24-2005, 09:52 AM
I received a book for Christmas that was filled with photos from old Comiskey Park in 1977. If you ever get this book, you will be amazed at how run down the park looked. Like them or hate them, you cannot deny Reinsdorf and his group threw a lot of money into the park. The only way it could have been saved would have been a gut rehab, which probably would have required the White Sox to play elsewhere a year or 2. Its time was up.

Ol' No. 2
01-24-2005, 09:58 AM
The maintenance had been neglected for many, many years. Once the structural concrete is shot, you can't fix it anymore. You have to replace it. IIRC, they looked at a rehab, but it just wasn't cost-effective. They would have had to replace so much they'd essentially be building a new park anyway.

HITMEN OF 77
01-24-2005, 11:16 AM
It's about money. It would have cost more in the long run to do up keep on old Comsikey than to just build a new ball park.

ewokpelts
01-24-2005, 11:47 AM
If they canspend 600 million to "rennovate" soldier firld, then qwhy couldnt comiskey be saved? same goes for the Chicago stadium....it could have still been used, even if it wasnt for games...

Gene

Mammoo
01-24-2005, 11:50 AM
Comiskey's demise was all about luxury boxes...plain and simple.:whiner:

anewman35
01-24-2005, 11:53 AM
If they canspend 600 million to "rennovate" soldier firld, then qwhy couldnt comiskey be saved? same goes for the Chicago stadium....it could have still been used, even if it wasnt for games...


Used for what? Who would pay for it?

Brian26
01-24-2005, 11:55 AM
Used for what? Who would pay for it?

Exactly. Who's going to pay for the upkeep of a 45,000 stadium that is used for a once-a-year high school event that draws 3,000 people? Just not cost effective at all.

Brian26
01-24-2005, 11:56 AM
Comiskey's demise was all about luxury boxes...plain and simple.:whiner:

Wrong.

Lip Man 1
01-24-2005, 12:22 PM
Ask and ye shall receive:

On Comiskey Park old and new, with memories of Tampa Bay: "Comiskey Park is not getting ready to fall down, but I would be very surprised if Comiskey Park, as we know it today, will exist in 25 years. We'll either need a new park or a Yankee Stadium-style renovation." –Jerry Reinsdorf to the Boston Globe’s Bob Ryan. August 5, 1985.

"We've done what we can, but we can't do it forever. This place is a dinosaur. We can't afford old ballparks. We can't afford cheap bleacher seats. We can't afford double-headers. You need artificial turf so you can get games in. In between the white lines, baseball hasn't changed very much. The big change is outside the lines, and people must understand and this place has no role in the game as it is today. We've done all kinds of things to hang on, but there are no mirrors left."– Eddie Einhorn to the Boston Globe’s Bob Ryan. August 5, 1985.
"What’s that they say about it getting darkest just before dawn? When you think how close we came to leaving...the thing is, if you somehow waived a magic wand and made this stadium structurally sound, it still wouldn’t be financially sound. We couldn’t have competed. Now, we can compete." – Jerry Reinsdorf to The Sporting News’ Bob Verdi. September, 1990.

"There was so much deterioration (to the original Comiskey Park) the engineers told us the upped deck probably would have collapsed within a year or two."– Jerry Reinsdorf, quoted in the White Sox game program of September 30, 1990.

"In 1988, Frank Morsani had tried to prevent Jerry Reinsdorf from getting American League approval for moving the White Sox to Tampa. He contacted several team owners, including the owner of the Baltimore Orioles, Edward Bennett Williams -- who in 1960 mounted a legal challenge to Calvin Griffith's relocation of the Washington Senators to Minnesota. Reinsdorf heard about it and became royally pissed off.

Morsani tried to block our move to St. Petersburg, Reinsdorf says. He fought us in the [Florida] legislature. And he went to see Edward Bennett Williams, who at the time owned the Orioles, and asked him to vote against the White Sox move to St. Petersburg. If baseball came to St. Petersburg, [Morsani] wanted to be involved. He had invested several million dollars trying to get an expansion team and if we came in, his money was going down the drain. But him going to see Williams was like someone who is not a member of a country club going to a member of the country club and asking him to vote against the admission of a third person. Ed Williams and I were members of the same country club and Morsani was not. I didn't think that was right.

Later in the same year, when Morsani attempted to buy the Texas Rangers, it was widely believed Reinsdorf was the man who stood in his way. Reinsdorf opposed the sale of the Rangers to Morsani; he also objected to broadcaster Ed Gaylord as owner. For blocking Morsani and Gaylord, the American League told Reinsdorf to find a qualified buyer for the Texas franchise. This made Reinsdorf even madder at Morsani, because he believed the price agreed upon by Morsani and Rangers owner Eddie Chiles was too high, making it tough to find an owner. However, Reinsdorf is generally credited with creating the George W. Bush ownership group.

Reinsdorf never forgot or forgave Morsani's actions, giving the Tampa car dealer a powerful and vocal opponent among baseball owners. Of Reinsdorf, Morsani says, I am not crazy about a lot of things that he did. In the spring of 1990, Allen Keesler took Morsani to the White Sox spring training camp in Sarasota to try and patch things up between his friends. The trio sat in Reinsdorf's box, ate lunch and talked. Allen was trying to patch things up between Morsani and me, Reinsdorf says. I was very angry because I felt, number one, he should be more civic-minded. Reinsdorf believed that despite Morsani's personal investment, he should have supported any baseball team that came to Tampa Bay, whether he owned it or not." From the internet story, ‘Stadium For Rent : Tampa Bay’s Quest For Major League Baseball’ by Bob Andelman. Chapter 10. Published 1993.

"The lease Reinsdorf got from the Illinois Sports Authority deserved immediate induction into the Sweetheart-Deal Hall Of Fame. The White Sox would get the new Comiskey Park rent free up to 1.2 million in attendance each year. Above that, the Illinois Sports Authority got $2.50 a ticket. The White Sox would also give the authority 35 percent of its broadcast and advertising revenues over $10 million. But the White Sox got back $5 million a year for upkeep, repairs and insurance. After the first ten years of the twenty-year lease, the authority would buy 300,000 tickets if attendance fell below 1.5 million."– From the book ‘The Lords of The Realm’ by John Helyar. Pg. 483. Published 1994.

"Jerry Reinsdorf read and heard the barbs, and they bothered him not a bit. He’d been rich and he’d been poor and rich was better. In new Comiskey Park’s first season, he cleared a $22 million operating profit. After years of struggling to break even, he had baseball’s second most profitable team in 1991." – From the book ‘ The Lords Of The Realm’ by John Helyar. Pg. 484. Published 1994.

"In Chicago, the White Sox had the good manners not to say that six-year-old Comiskey Park was nothing more then a gaudier Three Rivers Stadium, but owner Jerry Reinsdorf had begun to "Seligize"- to publicly and loudly ruminate about the park’s future."– From the book ‘The Big Show, Inside ESPN’s SportsCenter’ by Keith Olbermann. Pg. 192. Published 1997.

"We don't have any definitive plans. We built a modern stadium with wide aisles and no obstructed seats, and I think it's a beautiful ballpark. The first year it was acclaimed, and then Camden Yards and Jacobs Field were built, and people came to like the retro look. But those ballparks have a lot of deficiencies, like obstructed seats. But we're sort of in the retail business, and we have to give our customers what they want whenever possible, so we're examining the possibilities." – Jerry Reinsdorf to the Chicago Sun - Times’ Terry Savage. July 30, 2000.

"I think if we do a renovation in this ballpark it would be with private money, some of which might come from selling naming rights." – Jerry Reinsdorf to the Chicago Sun - Times’ Terry Savage. July 30, 2000.

"When the new stadium was announced I know some his (Jerry Reinsdorf’s) limited partners started grumbling because they felt that after a few years, the novelty of a new stadium would wear off and they’d be right back with the same attendance troubles. They were disappointed with the location of the new stadium."– Rich Lindberg, Sox historian and author of four Sox books, to WSI’s Mark Liptak. From his interview, April 14, 2002.

Lip

Medford Bobby
01-24-2005, 01:13 PM
:(: Boy I think that is the thing forgotton here...Should a new park been build elsewhere then it's current location. As a fan It would not have bothered me to build some huge new park elsewhere...suburbs would have been fine or maybe a downtown park too (parking??).

We know if they had waited a year or two more we would have had a retro looking park. Every time I go to new facility (Coors Field or Safeco) I see these grand "bricked" facility that looks or has characteristics of Old Comiskey, I'm again reminded that we had the original "blueprints" of modern parks NOT being used in our new ball park.............

:redneck But remember we were warned in 1988 that one more coat of paint on the old structure and it would have collapsed!!

:bandance: 2005 Middle Market Champion of the world!!
"Your Bridgeport White Sox of Chicago"

anewman35
01-24-2005, 01:18 PM
"When the new stadium was announced I know some his (Jerry Reinsdorf’s) limited partners started grumbling because they felt that after a few years, the novelty of a new stadium would wear off and they’d be right back with the same attendance troubles. They were disappointed with the location of the new stadium."– Rich Lindberg, Sox historian and author of four Sox books, to WSI’s Mark Liptak. From his interview, April 14, 2002.

I was too young at the time to really know, but, how would it have went over with people if the stadium had been built in the loop or in the suburbs? Wouldn't you have had many many people complaining about how the team was ditching it's southside roots? And, especially if the team had really moved to Addison - wouldn't that have just pissed off anybody who cared about tradition at all?

Basically, in short, would having the location be somewhere else really have solved all the problems, or would it have just annoyed different people instead?

ewokpelts
01-24-2005, 04:03 PM
Exactly. Who's going to pay for the upkeep of a 45,000 stadium that is used for a once-a-year high school event that draws 3,000 people? Just not cost effective at all.
I was referring to the chicago stadium, but i guess i can comment on old comiskey as well...
I feel that Chicago Stadium could have been a GREAT location for either Hawks HQ and practice facility(it's in the burbs, bensenville, i belive) or it could have been open for other public events(non-pro-sports). I also felt it wouldhave been a great Chicago Sports Museum, with it hosting not only stanley cup and nba finals, but also an nfl title game back in the 1930's(bears beat giants for title).
As for Comiskey, it too could have been restored and kept up as a museum to baseball or chicago sports.
Gene

ewokpelts
01-24-2005, 04:04 PM
I was too young at the time to really know, but, how would it have went over with people if the stadium had been built in the loop or in the suburbs? Wouldn't you have had many many people complaining about how the team was ditching it's southside roots? And, especially if the team had really moved to Addison - wouldn't that have just pissed off anybody who cared about tradition at all?

Basically, in short, would having the location be somewhere else really have solved all the problems, or would it have just annoyed different people instead?
same crap...differnet port-a-potty....
Gene

C-Dawg
01-24-2005, 04:45 PM
And, especially if the team had really moved to Addison - wouldn't that have just pissed off anybody who cared about tradition at all?



Well, I would have liked it if they moved to Addison; I could go to every game right after work!

Oh, well. Old Comiskey Park was funky. Really cool, and I loved the place, but it was funky. I think that just adds to its mystique.

Parrothead
01-24-2005, 06:07 PM
It could have been saved, but only by a complete renovation from the ground up like Yankee Stadium was in 1975. For a few months in the late '80s most of the seats in the leftfield lower deck were blocked off because of falling concrete from the upper deck.
- tebman

I am not sure about left field but I am sure a portion of right field was blocked off. I was at a game where a section of the upper deck fell about two sections from where I was sitting in right field. The size of the concrete chuck was about 6-10 feet long. If the Sox actually had people there they would have been killed. That is the day I was on board for a new stadium.

RedHeadPaleHoser
01-24-2005, 06:13 PM
When I worked there mid to late 80's as an Andy Frain, I was amazed at how "fresh" the park looked every spring...only due to MORE paint, heavier coats on sections. Structurally, it was not uncommon to look around (especially in the LF and RF lower corners) and see patchwork concrete holding beams in place. I do remember a section of I beams being put into location on the RC side of the crosswalk behind the scoreboard. If Comiskey was in better shape when they bought the team in 81, who knows if it could have been saved. I will say, after I graduated and went to work FT I worked for a company that leased equipment to the Cubs every December-March for improvements. This was in the 1988-1991 time frame.

Let's be honest-we all miss Comiskey. I do only because it was the coolest job in the world to "work" the games and watch them. If new Comiskey looked like it does today, we'd have one of the best kick ass ballparks in baseball, STILL.

zach074
01-24-2005, 06:22 PM
I wish it would have survived long enough for me to see a game there.

Brian26
01-24-2005, 08:12 PM
I was too young at the time to really know, but, how would it have went over with people if the stadium had been built in the loop or in the suburbs?

"Stealing First in a Two-Team Town" is an excellent reference for some history on this. There were a lot of questions, at the time, about the amount of money it would take to upgrade infrastructure in the south/southwest Loop area to accomodate a new ballpark. That area wasn't seeing the unbelievable boom of growth in 1989 that we are seeing today, so it would have been a hell of a riskier move. The City wasn't willing to spend a lot of money to upgrade roads and entrance ramps off the Ike and build parking garages, etc. It turned out to be a cheaper, more viable option at the time to just move across the street.

tebman
01-24-2005, 09:15 PM
I am not sure about left field but I am sure a portion of right field was blocked off. I was at a game where a section of the upper deck fell about two sections from where I was sitting in right field. The size of the concrete chuck was about 6-10 feet long. If the Sox actually had people there they would have been killed. That is the day I was on board for a new stadium.

You're right -- it was in the right-field seats. Had a brain cramp there when I said left field. :?:

The point remains, though, and you saw it firsthand. As sad as I was to see it go, the choices were bleak -- either replace the park or completely rebuild it, which are really two sides of the same coin. At least the Sox stayed in Chicago after all the smoke cleared.

- tebman

jdm2662
01-24-2005, 09:19 PM
Does anyone remember how terrible the field would be after a rain delay? It was much worse than what Wrigley turned into during the rain delay during the Sox-Cubs game. I remember a series in '90 against Oakland where Canseco fell right on his ass trying to get a ball, and David Henderson broke his leg because of the terrible outfield. That in itself should've warrented a new stadium. Of course, money had alot to do with it, but the stadium had to go.
________
Herbal vaporizers (http://vaporizer.org/)

Ol' No. 2
01-24-2005, 09:21 PM
I recall there was a downtown site that was considered and rejected because of the much higher site prep costs. But I don't recall exactly where it was. On the site of the RR tracks somewhere IIRC. Anybody?

PaleHoseGeorge
01-24-2005, 09:43 PM
I recall there was a downtown site that was considered and rejected because of the much higher site prep costs. But I don't recall exactly where it was. On the site of the RR tracks somewhere IIRC. Anybody?

In the mid-60's Art Allyn wanted to build a new Sox Park on top of what is now Dearborn Park high rises and townhomes, itself built on what was formerly the railyard for the old Dearborn passenger terminal.

It's in the South Loop, north of Roosevelt and west of State Street. It's the hottest real estate in the city the last ten years.

Parrothead
01-24-2005, 09:48 PM
As sad as I was to see it go, the choices were bleak -- either replace the park or completely rebuild it, which are really two sides of the same coin. At least the Sox stayed in Chicago after all the smoke cleared.

- tebman

I was sad to see it go too but the new park is much better than having concrete on your head. And with all the changes made to the park it is an excellent venue.

Ol' No. 2
01-24-2005, 09:52 PM
In the mid-60's Art Allyn wanted to build a new Sox Park on top of what is now Dearborn Park high rises and townhomes, itself built on what was formerly the railyard for the old Dearborn passenger terminal.

It's in the South Loop, north of Roosevelt and west of State Street. It's the hottest real estate in the city the last ten years.I didn't know that. But I seem to recall that when they were considering options for New Comiskey that there was a downtown site in the mix, too. Might have been the same area.

PaleHoseGeorge
01-24-2005, 09:58 PM
I didn't know that. But I seem to recall that when they were considering options for New Comiskey that there was a downtown site in the mix, too. Might have been the same area.

Yes. The Bears were whining for a new stadium back in the mid/late-80s, too. One proposal was a Bears/Sox stadium on the west bank of the South Branch of the Chicago River near Roosevelt Road. That was another piece of abandoned railyard that today is covered in big-box retail stores.

The plan never got off the ground. The Bears wanted their own stadium (McCaskey was especially obnoxious, claiming Bears tradition laid with the Cubs, not the Sox), and the Sox were busy playing footsy with St. Petersburg. It was later that the politicians agreed to support the site across 35th Street from Old Comiskey and from there it was just a matter of getting the funding lined up in Springfield.

Ol' No. 2
01-24-2005, 10:05 PM
Yes. The Bears were whining for a new stadium back in the mid/late-80s, too. One proposal was a Bears/Sox stadium on the west bank of the South Branch of the Chicago River near Roosevelt Road. That was another piece of abandoned railyard that today is covered in big-box retail stores.

The plan never got off the ground. The Bears wanted their own stadium (McCaskey was especially obnoxious, claiming Bears tradition laid with the Cubs, not the Sox), and the Sox were busy playing footsy with St. Petersburg. It was later that the politicians agreed to support the site across 35th Street from Old Comiskey and from there it was just a matter of getting the funding lined up in Springfield.IIRC, Reinsdorf was pretty cool to the idea of a multi-use stadium. I can't disagree with him on that. I can't think of one that is worth a damn.

SpammySosa
01-24-2005, 10:05 PM
Does anyone remember how terrible the field would be after a rain delay? It was much worse than what Wrigley turned into during the rain delay during the Sox-Cubs game. I remember a series in '90 against Oakland where Canseco fell right on his ass trying to get a ball, and David Henderson broke his leg because of the terrible outfield. That in itself should've warrented a new stadium. Of course, money had alot to do with it, but the stadium had to go.

Yeah and we all know Canseco was known for his defensive ability on a dry field.

PaleHoseGeorge
01-24-2005, 10:07 PM
IIRC, Reinsdorf was pretty cool to the idea of a multi-use stadium. I can't disagree with him on that. I can't think of one that is worth a damn.

There were all sorts of goofy proposals. One of them had a sliding roof over two adjoining stadiums, one each for the Sox and the Bears.

Ah, it was the 80's...
:gulp:

Fake Chet Lemon
01-24-2005, 10:21 PM
The memories it created are worth saving forever. But the park itself was a mess. I was always either behind a pole, or too far under the upper deck to see any balls more than 20 feet in the air. Don't forget the buzz the new park created. I had seasons the first three years in the new park (until the strike) and it seemed like every game was a sell out. But easy for me to say all this, I at least had the opportunity. I wish all you younger fans could have experienced one game there.

dungball
01-24-2005, 10:37 PM
the old park was not going to last much longer, it was costing a little over a million dollars per year every off season for upkeep( alot of money in the 80's). right field was completly shut down for months one year, i think 1988. the structure was not in good shape. i do miss the old lady and all of her grace, the best seats were upper deck loge box. the seats were only about 15 rows back from the lower deck and you got an amazing view of the game. the food under the stands was about 10 times better, almost like being on old maxwell st. i glad i was able to see so many games there.the new park is all right, the upper deck is no different than any other new park, i went to the ball park in arlington and it was exactly the same in the upper deck. i think the problem was the new park had no flavor, no brick, and did not feel lived in. it seems that they are slowly changing that and its still the best place in chicago to see a game:rolleyes:

Whitesox029
01-24-2005, 11:49 PM
As I was born in 1987, I have only the vaguest of memories of Old Comiskey Park. That aside, I am a true Sox fan and I understand the tradition and the memories that are attached to the place. Though all my discernable Sox memories took place in New Comiskey, I have a certain reverence for what used to be. I have gone to the monument to the old home plate and the thought of all the rich history that took place right on that spot never fails to bring a tear to my eye. I sympathize with older Sox fans who loved the old park. At least I was fortunate enough to have seen a few games there. I feel truly sorry for future generations who will never have memories, even fuzzy ones.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/8a/320px-Old_comiskey_park.jpg
We will never forget!

slavko
01-25-2005, 12:20 AM
Yes. The Bears were whining for a new stadium back in the mid/late-80s, too. One proposal was a Bears/Sox stadium on the west bank of the South Branch of the Chicago River near Roosevelt Road. That was another piece of abandoned railyard that today is covered in big-box retail stores.

The plan never got off the ground. The Bears wanted their own stadium (McCaskey was especially obnoxious, claiming Bears tradition laid with the Cubs, not the Sox), and the Sox were busy playing footsy with St. Petersburg. It was later that the politicians agreed to support the site across 35th Street from Old Comiskey and from there it was just a matter of getting the funding lined up in Springfield.

Some of the animosity McCaskey felt for the Sox came from when GM Jim Finks was leaving the Bears for New Orleans and had to sell back to the club the 5% of club stock he owned under his employment agreement. Since the stock was not publicly traded, McCaskey could basically have his way with Finks on the buyout price. JR/EE thought owning a piece of the Bears would be a nice diversion and offered Finks a fair sum for his stock. They told McCaskey they would bow out after a year if he thought they weren't good owners.

The net effect of this was to establish a higher buyout price for Finks's stock than McCaskey thought he would have to pay and the tight-fisted Bear owner had it in for JR/EE from that time on.

That having been said, holding the city and state hostage about the Tampa was a stomach churner and I'm still upset about it.

TommyJohn
01-25-2005, 12:56 AM
Some of the animosity McCaskey felt for the Sox came from when GM Jim Finks was leaving the Bears for New Orleans and had to sell back to the club the 5% of club stock he owned under his employment agreement. Since the stock was not publicly traded, McCaskey could basically have his way with Finks on the buyout price. JR/EE thought owning a piece of the Bears would be a nice diversion and offered Finks a fair sum for his stock. They told McCaskey they would bow out after a year if he thought they weren't good owners.

The net effect of this was to establish a higher buyout price for Finks's stock than McCaskey thought he would have to pay and the tight-fisted Bear owner had it in for JR/EE from that time on.

That having been said, holding the city and state hostage about the Tampa was a stomach churner and I'm still upset about it.

I also recall that Eddie Einhorn bought the Chicago Blitz of the USFL and was
going to move them into Comiskey. This was when the USFL decided to go to
a fall and winter schedule to compete with the NFL, so the Blitz would be
mounting a direct challenge to the Bears. Of course, the USFL folded and the
changes never happened. Still, Einhorn was going to compete with the Bears.

Nevertheless, as a result of what McCaskey said in 1988, I was
more than happy to see him get jacked around in his bid for a
stadium, and I'm also more than happy to see the Bears wallow
in their present mediocrity. Not that it matters to McCaskey, who
made out like a bandit in the Soldier Field deal.

FARMEO
01-25-2005, 01:07 AM
I also remember a Sox/Bear stadium plan that had the seating sections on water so they could be moved easily in order to change from baseball to football.

JoseCanseco6969
01-25-2005, 01:15 AM
The memories it created are worth saving forever. But the park itself was a mess. I was always either behind a pole, or too far under the upper deck to see any balls more than 20 feet in the air. Don't forget the buzz the new park created. I had seasons the first three years in the new park (until the strike) and it seemed like every game was a sell out. But easy for me to say all this, I at least had the opportunity. I wish all you younger fans could have experienced one game there.

I'm happy to say I attended one game at the old park as a little kid. I believe it was 88 and I was 5 yrs old. I have vague recollections of it, but I remember that sort of funky feeling and smell that an old ballpark has. Similiar to old Soldier. Sure It'd be nice to still have it,( I plan on one of these days spending big bucks on a pair of seats to go along with my brick and seat slab) but you cant live in the past. I was really glad to see Soldier renovated and i absolutely love the renovations we've done. GO SOX 05'

StillMissOzzie
01-25-2005, 01:35 AM
Well, I would have liked it if they moved to Addison; I could go to every game right after work!

Yeah, me too! IIRC, the Addison referendum failed by the narrowest of margins, largely due to the efforts of one subdivision that voted something like 95% against.

I was at a bar in Addison back in the late '80's, because there was gonna be a dog & pony show for the proposed new stadium there in Addison. It featured Jim Fregosi, Herm Schneider(huh?) and a rep from the architectural firm. Recall very little about the stadium, but I got an autographed hat from Fregosi. I do recall Fregosi talking up Carlos Martinez though...:rolleyes:

SMO
:gulp:

mikef1331
01-25-2005, 01:36 AM
Fortunately for me, I was lucky enough to have attended a few games at Comiskey when I was a kid. Recently I found our pics from the last night game at old Comiskey. I'm including 1 here that really shows the contrast between the New Park and the Old Park. I have a few more I can post if anybody is interested.

tebman
01-25-2005, 08:16 AM
(McCaskey's condescension vis-a-vis the Sox) having been said, holding the city and state hostage about the Tampa was a stomach churner and I'm still upset about it.
Amen. Garrison Keillor once wrote that it's good to keep a couple of grudges with you. This one is mine.

- tebman

Nellie_Fox
01-25-2005, 10:32 AM
The memories it created are worth saving forever. But the park itself was a mess. I was always either behind a pole, or too far under the upper deck to see any balls more than 20 feet in the air. And don't forget that anybody over 6 feet tall pretty much had to sit sideways the whole game because your knees wouldn't fit in behind the seat in front of you.

Ol' No. 2
01-25-2005, 10:50 AM
And don't forget that anybody over 6 feet tall pretty much had to sit sideways the whole game because your knees wouldn't fit in behind the seat in front of you.Nostalgia is a wonderful thing, isn't it? It lets you just remember the good stuff and forget about the obstructed views, the crumbling concrete, having to go down below the stands to get food, the overflowing trough urinals, the lack of parking....

ewokpelts
01-25-2005, 10:50 AM
There were all sorts of goofy proposals. One of them had a sliding roof over two adjoining stadiums, one each for the Sox and the Bears.

Ah, it was the 80's...
:gulp:
This idea is being explored in minnesota right now...
Gene

gosox41
01-25-2005, 12:00 PM
Exactly. The problem is that it hadn't been properly maintained for years. Concrete doesn't last indefinately. They might have been able to milk it along for a few more years, but it was going to have to be replaced soon. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I like the new place better. Sightlines are better, you don't have to go down below the stands to get food or a potty break. The only seats that are worse are in the UD.

I agree. Nothing lasts forever. The new ballpark is much better from my perspective as a fan and I'm certan the players like the facilities better.


Bob

Lip Man 1
01-25-2005, 12:32 PM
I'm surprised no one has mentioned this idea from the original Mayor Daley himself. According to Sox historian Rich Lindberg (and commented on in his book 'Who's On 3rd?', as well as his interview with WSI), Daley proposed building a domed stadium on an island in Lake Michigan connected to the city by an isthmus in the mid 60's.

Basically you'd drive to the stadium (used by the Sox and Bears) along an artificially created road over the lake from the downtown area.

Conservationists went nuts and the idea never got off the ground.

Lip

Ol' No. 2
01-25-2005, 12:36 PM
I'm surprised no one has mentioned this idea from the original Mayor Daley himself. According to Sox historian Rich Lindberg (and commented on in his book 'Who's On 3rd?', as well as his interview with WSI), Daley proposed building a domed stadium on an island in Lake Michigan connected to the city by an isthmus in the mid 60's.

Basically you'd drive to the stadium (used by the Sox and Bears) along an artificially created road over the lake from the downtown area.

Conservationists went nuts and the idea never got off the ground.

LipI remember that. I remember he also wanted to build an airport on landfill out in the lake. He also imagined parks along the river downtown with grills so families could fish in the river and have a picnic and cook their catch right there. Yum. :gulp:

Rush20
01-25-2005, 12:45 PM
This is purely my opinion, I'm not a civil engineer. But I think Reinsdorf could have kept the place functional for a long time if he put the money into it, but the old place could not generate the skybox revenue he wanted so it was doomed no matter what.

You mean all that revenue from the empty Skyboxes at the Cell? Seriously, I wished they could have simply built a new ballpark designed just like Comiskey. I loved the design, not the age. They could have installed skyboxes similar to those used a Wrigley and only had to slightly alter the design. They could have built a year-long bar in center field (McCutty's/SP?) and maintained a great tradition.

I like the changes to the Cell, however we'll never get over the stacked skybox look that pushes the upper deck further away from the field. Personally, I think they should use the second deck of skyboxes for team offices and extend the upper deck down so that it forms a "roof" over the Club Level boxes.

Whitesox029
01-25-2005, 07:11 PM
You mean all that revenue from the empty Skyboxes at the Cell?
:tealpolice:

zach074
01-25-2005, 07:17 PM
I also remember a Sox/Bear stadium plan that had the seating sections on water so they could be moved easily in order to change from baseball to football.

Ha ha thats almost as dumb as a road by my house that goes across a marsh they decided to float it by putting Styrofoam underneath.:redneck

Johnny Mostil
01-25-2005, 07:18 PM
Seriously, I wished they could have simply built a new ballpark designed just like Comiskey.

If you haven't yet, check out http://whitesoxinteractive.com/FixComiskey/Bess/Conversation1.htm. It's not quite what you would want, but you might still be intrigued.

C-Dawg
01-25-2005, 08:44 PM
Ha ha thats almost as dumb as a road by my house that goes across a marsh they decided to float it by putting Styrofoam underneath.:redneck

Heh heh, did it work? That's actually a common way to get roads built in really swampy areas.

zach074
01-25-2005, 08:49 PM
Heh heh, did it work? That's actually a common way to get roads built in really swampy areas.

No it pretty much bent and buckled, so now they built a bridge.