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NonetheLoaiza
01-22-2005, 10:23 AM
http://cbs.sportsline.com/mlb/story/8120922

Just a follow up on the whole 'Last out of the WS' saga. Lawyers claim that there is a decent chance Mietkiewicz could have to give the ball up. I know it was discussed in a thread awhile ago, but man....what a jerk this guy is.

idseer
01-22-2005, 10:37 AM
i still fail to see why he's a jerk. as you can see by their poll, more people feel he should keep the ball than any other scenario.

NonetheLoaiza
01-22-2005, 10:46 AM
I don't think he's a jerk because he kept the ball, but because he called it his retirement fund, and only wants it for the money.

idseer
01-22-2005, 10:52 AM
I don't think he's a jerk because he kept the ball, but because he called it his retirement fund, and only wants it for the money.

and I think he was joking when he said that.

Nick@Nite
01-22-2005, 11:00 AM
Selfish Mientkiewicz vs. the Selfish Red Sox ...

They're made for each other ...

I hope the ball is accidentally dropped by the "winner" of this stupidly obscene episode and it rolls into the sewer ...

Nick@Nite
01-22-2005, 11:04 AM
He backed off the "retirement fund" remark because even a chucklehead like him realized how badly that would play in the media.

idseer
01-22-2005, 11:07 AM
He backed off the "retirement fund" remark because even a chucklehead like him realized how badly that would play in the media.

or he was joking. :rolleyes:

Nick@Nite
01-22-2005, 11:09 AM
or he was joking. :rolleyes:

... or he's a chucklehead. :rolleyes:

34 Inch Stick
01-22-2005, 12:29 PM
What lawyers are saying this. I will go out on a limb here and say there is little to any chance that a court will make him give up the ball, especially to the Red Sox. Aren't these balls the property of the AL or MLB. I don't think the chain of title ever goes through the Sox at any time. It would be great to have a client that knows he is going to lose a case but wants to fight it on principle. Big billable hours.

voodoochile
01-22-2005, 12:37 PM
or he was joking. :rolleyes:

Did you actually hear the remarks made in person, on TV or over the radio? Do you have any evidence he was joking other than your opinion?

I seem to remember him talking about sending his kid to FSU by selling the ball in a few years.

I agree. He's an idiot. If this was his idea of a joke, and he truly doesn't care about the money, why not give it to the team to be displayed for all Red Sox fans?

If he isn't selling it and he's just keeping it for a keepsake than he's a bigger dufus than before, IMO.

"I've got the ball that broke the 87 year Red Sox championship drought and I'm keeping it all for myself."

He's a putz...

Daver
01-22-2005, 12:51 PM
The argument could be made that the ball belongs to the St. Louis Cardinals, the home team supplies the baseballs for a game.

Jjav829
01-22-2005, 12:52 PM
or he was joking. :rolleyes:

I agree with that you that he was likely joking. But even if he wasn't, he's Doug Mientkiewicz! Retirement might be 2 years away for a .240 hitter with no power. It's not like he's pulling in $10 million a year. I don't know how much he's made in his career, but I doubt the number is that high. Maybe I'm underestimating how much he has made in the big leagues, but he's 30 and if he's being realistic, another year or two like he had in 2004 and his career in the majors might be over.

samram
01-22-2005, 12:52 PM
What lawyers are saying this. I will go out on a limb here and say there is little to any chance that a court will make him give up the ball, especially to the Red Sox. Aren't these balls the property of the AL or MLB. I don't think the chain of title ever goes through the Sox at any time. It would be great to have a client that knows he is going to lose a case but wants to fight it on principle. Big billable hours.

Well, the Dean of Yale Law School seems to think he would have to give it up, saying he has the least right to it of all parties.

"What appears to be emerging as a legal consensus is that the person with the least rights to it is Mientkiewicz himself," said Yale Law School Dean Harold Hongju Koh.

Koh estimated the claimants would rank as: the Cardinals, since they were the home team; the Red Sox; major league baseball; and "then the guy who happened to hold it at the end of the game."



The Cards probably wouldn't want it, but they could get it back and then give it to the Red Sox.

ma-gaga
01-22-2005, 01:04 PM
Did you actually hear the remarks made in person, on TV or over the radio? Do you have any evidence he was joking other than your opinion?


Well, he and his wife claim that it was said in jest. Over and over again they claim that his comments were made in a joking manner. He's has a 3 year $10MM guaranteed contract. He also has a habit of saying things in jest and having them taken out of context (the All-star game commentary from a couple of years back IS a good example). He's joking about his "retirement fund".

SOSH has a pretty good on-going discussion about this and they've discussed this subject WAY more in depth than here. If you really want to form an educated opinion about the Boston Globe's, Boston Red Sox's, and Doug Mientkiewicz's motivations, read thru 5-6 pages of commentary. But make sure that you read some of the Boston Globe's M.O. stuff.

http://p086.ezboard.com/fsonsofsamhornbostonredsox.showMessage?topicID=148 38.topic

Those "legal opinions" seem awfully biased. One claims that the ball belongs to "Red Sox Nation"?!? Huh?!? That cannot be a real legal argument.

My opinion. Let Doug keep the ball. It's likely to be his greatest memoribilia of the his career. Fire the reporter. This "story" is a creation of his fancy.

voodoochile
01-22-2005, 01:19 PM
Well, he and his wife claim that it was said in jest. Over and over again they claim that his comments were made in a joking manner. He's has a 3 year $10MM guaranteed contract. He also has a habit of saying things in jest and having them taken out of context (the All-star game commentary from a couple of years back IS a good example). He's joking about his "retirement fund".

SOSH has a pretty good on-going discussion about this and they've discussed this subject WAY more in depth than here. If you really want to form an educated opinion about the Boston Globe's, Boston Red Sox's, and Doug Mientkiewicz's motivations, read thru 5-6 pages of commentary. But make sure that you read some of the Boston Globe's M.O. stuff.

http://p086.ezboard.com/fsonsofsamhornbostonredsox.showMessage?topicID=148 38.topic

Those "legal opinions" seem awfully biased. One claims that the ball belongs to "Red Sox Nation"?!? Huh?!? That cannot be a real legal argument.

My opinion. Let Doug keep the ball. It's likely to be his greatest memoribilia of the his career. Fire the reporter. This "story" is a creation of his fancy.

Right is right. Traditionally, the ball goes to the pitcher on the mound at the end of a game or the pitcher of record.

I really don't care about the legal aspects of the case. Doug should give the ball back because it's the right thing to do.

But, I do think and have made the argument before that MLB needs to set up an account specifically to buy back these big moment baseballs like McGwire's 70th or Bond's 73rd. Make the payment and make it into a big deal - invite the press, create an outsized check, let the lucky fan or player in question shake the hands of Bud Selig and whoever else is there. Let the media take pictures and have a whole big PR shindig. The fans are going to fight and jump and holler and scream to get those baseballs anyway. MLB should at least make sure they get them back. It's not like they can't afford a couple million dollars a year (at most) for these payments. In reality, it would be more like a couple million a decade...

Nick@Nite
01-22-2005, 02:32 PM
Well, he and his wife claim that it was said in jest. Over and over again they claim that his comments were made in a joking manner. He's has a 3 year $10MM guaranteed contract. He also has a habit of saying things in jest and having them taken out of context (the All-star game commentary from a couple of years back IS a good example). He's joking about his "retirement fund".

Since Doug likes running his mouth in jest, here's an opportunity to get some positive publicity that cannot be taken out of context. He should advocate auctioning the ball and donating the proceeds to charity. I'm sure if he bangs that monkey loud enough, he'll get the Red Sox organization on board to that idea... and maybe some good can come out of this sorry story.

Memo to Doug: if you do what I suggest, I'll give you the one MLB souvenir ball that I have and that I luckily caught when Paul Konerko flipped it into the stands after the end of an inning. It may not have the same sentimental value as the WS ball you were so big enough to donate to charity, but I'll do it for you, big fella.

idseer
01-22-2005, 02:50 PM
Did you actually hear the remarks made in person, on TV or over the radio? Do you have any evidence he was joking other than your opinion?

I seem to remember him talking about sending his kid to FSU by selling the ball in a few years.

I agree. He's an idiot. If this was his idea of a joke, and he truly doesn't care about the money, why not give it to the team to be displayed for all Red Sox fans?

If he isn't selling it and he's just keeping it for a keepsake than he's a bigger dufus than before, IMO.

"I've got the ball that broke the 87 year Red Sox championship drought and I'm keeping it all for myself."

He's a putz...

well, you tell me what his salary is ... what he's worth! then, if you still think he needs the 500k or whatever is what he's counting on from that ball to send his kids to school you need a reality check. :smile:

and just cause he was joking about THAT, doesn't mean he doesn't want the ball as his OWN keepsake for being a part of his only world series.

maybe he doesn't see it the way you do. that it's some big deal prize that boston somehow deserves. why does everyone always think they know how everyone else should act? and if they don't ... they HAVE to be a jerk?

Whitesox029
01-22-2005, 03:28 PM
The Cards probably wouldn't want it, but they could get it back and then give it to the Red Sox.
Or they could get it and sell it to the Red Sox and then go sign Ordonez.

voodoochile
01-22-2005, 03:42 PM
well, you tell me what his salary is ... what he's worth! then, if you still think he needs the 500k or whatever is what he's counting on from that ball to send his kids to school you need a reality check. :smile:

and just cause he was joking about THAT, doesn't mean he doesn't want the ball as his OWN keepsake for being a part of his only world series.

maybe he doesn't see it the way you do. that it's some big deal prize that boston somehow deserves. why does everyone always think they know how everyone else should act? and if they don't ... they HAVE to be a jerk?

his glove, his uniform, his shoes, his bat, his hat, his pass to enter and leave the ballpark, his wife's ticket stub, etc.

How many souveneirs does one person need?:rolleyes:

idseer
01-22-2005, 04:23 PM
his glove, his uniform, his shoes, his bat, his hat, his pass to enter and leave the ballpark, his wife's ticket stub, etc.

How many souveneirs does one person need?:rolleyes:

and how many does boston need? :D:

voodoochile
01-22-2005, 04:33 PM
and how many does boston need? :D:

Are you serious?

I don't get you.

You moan and groan about how the game isn't the same as it used to be how the fans have become distanced from the players, how everyone is in it for the money, how the owners don't care, how the players all have attitudes and then you sit here defending Doug "I caught the damn ball and I'm keeping it" Mientkiewicz.

You think that ball would matter to you if it it was the last out of the first White Sox WS championship in 90 years or whatever? If not to you, can you see how it might matter to other fans? Might it be better in the Sox HOF, or MLB HOF where more people could stare, take pictures and in general ooh and aaah about history and meaning?

What if Frank Thomas caught that ball and refused to give it back? I can just envision the indignation dripping off the screen from the post you would type. :rolleyes:

idseer
01-22-2005, 04:59 PM
Are you serious?

I don't get you.

You moan and groan about how the game isn't the same as it used to be how the fans have become distanced from the players, how everyone is in it for the money, how the owners don't care, how the players all have attitudes and then you sit here defending Doug "I caught the damn ball and I'm keeping it" Mientkiewicz.

You think that ball would matter to you if it it was the last out of the first White Sox WS championship in 90 years or whatever? If not to you, can you see how it might matter to other fans? Might it be better in the Sox HOF, or MLB HOF where more people could stare, take pictures and in general ooh and aaah about history and meaning?

What if Frank Thomas caught that ball and refused to give it back? I can just envision the indignation dripping off the screen from the post you would type. :rolleyes:

yes, i'm serious. i fail to see how my feelings about 'the game' have anything to do with the bs 'idol' collections (auotgraphs, signed bats, balls etc.) that matter to some people. i don't recall saying anything about fans being distanced from the players, player attitudes, or any of the stuff you mentioned. i have suggested the owners don't care about much other than baseball as a business with the emphasis being mainly on immediate gratification instead of the future well being of the sport. but, what's that got to do with this situation? nothing!

no, the ball wouldn't matter to me at all, unless it was a personal memento to me (like it is to doug). maybe it does to some other people, but so what? so far i think most people think he should keep it. what about how they feel?
i think oo-ing and aahh-ing is over-rated. it's not like it's the declaration of independence, voodoo.

if he feels like he should give it back then fine. then people can slobber over it. but if he wants to keep it i say let him.

p.s. wrong about thomas too. thomas WOULD give it back tho. he's too pr conscious to keep it. he'd be too afraid it'd be another strike against him being elected top the hof.

hey voo, we just disagree about this, that's all. you think he should give it away, i say it's his choice. but i don't think we should be libeling (sp) the guy. we take this team enemy thing too far. i think a lot of people here are jumping all over him simply because he's an ex twin. kinda like hunter ... or even aj for that matter. i think a few here had to swallow real hard to accept him here.

santo=dorf
01-22-2005, 09:59 PM
Did you actually hear the remarks made in person, on TV or over the radio? Do you have any evidence he was joking other than your opinion?



The day AJ Pierzynski signed with the Sox, Mac, Jurko and Harry asked him about it, and AJ said Doug was saying it as a joke, and he wasn't serious about the ball becoming his retirement funds .

Good enough?

34 Inch Stick
01-24-2005, 08:45 AM
Well, the Dean of Yale Law School seems to think he would have to give it up, saying he has the least right to it of all parties.



The Cards probably wouldn't want it, but they could get it back and then give it to the Red Sox.

I'd love to hear his reasoning for the Red Sox getting the ball over Meintekwicz. I think it is wishfull thinking from a fan speaking off the cuff, like if they had an NU law professor speaking about the Bartman Ball before its "death penalty". They lose all expectation to rights to the ball when it is put in the field of play (they even put this understood loss in writing on tickets/scoreboard that fans can keep balls).

Again, I think MLB provides the balls to the teams, especially during the playoffs and the learned dean does not even speak about its rights.

samram
01-24-2005, 08:58 AM
I'd love to hear his reasoning for the Red Sox getting the ball over Meintekwicz. I think it is wishfull thinking from a fan speaking off the cuff, like if they had an NU law professor speaking about the Bartman Ball before its "death penalty". They lose all expectation to rights to the ball when it is put in the field of play (they even put this understood loss in writing on tickets/scoreboard that fans can keep balls).

Again, I think MLB provides the balls to the teams, especially during the playoffs and the learned dean does not even speak about its rights.

He says that they would stand third in line, after the Cards and the Red Sox. Furthermore, the understood loss is that fans keep balls that go out of play- into the stands. There's not a lot of case law directly on point here, so it may be scholars like this who influence any decision, if Mientkiewicz and the Sawx can't come to an agreement. In the Bonds case, the judge said MLB had no rights to the ball when it left the park, that it was intentionally abandoned, but didn't say anything about a ball that stayed in the playing field.

Of course, if MLB provides the balls during the playoffs, then maybe it does have the first claim. I just don't see how Mientkiewicz does, except, of course, that he has the ball right now, possession being 9/10 of the law and all.:D:

34 Inch Stick
01-24-2005, 04:27 PM
While Dean of Yale is a prestigous position, it does not necessarily mean he is an expert in property (and in fact highly unlikely). Obviously the guy must know something but his analysis seems off to me. I am going to go out on a limb here and say it remains Mientkiewicz's property, either because of inaction or court order.

samram
01-24-2005, 04:51 PM
I would say Mientkiewicz gets some form of compensation from the Red Sox in return for the ball.

idseer
01-24-2005, 05:49 PM
I would say Mientkiewicz gets some form of compensation from the Red Sox in return for the ball.

as he should. at least he remembered to grab the thing.

Fenway
01-27-2005, 01:39 PM
finally


The Red Sox let Doug Mientkiewicz go, but they'll get back a historic baseball. At least on loan for a year.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/story/275213p-235644c.html

idseer
01-27-2005, 03:33 PM
finally


The Red Sox let Doug Mientkiewicz go, but they'll get back a historic baseball. At least on loan for a year.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/story/275213p-235644c.html

"When they asked for it they got it," Mientkiewicz said. "They're coming to get it. It's over and done with."

"It was never an argument," Mientkiewicz said. "There was never a fight. There were never words exchanged. We worked something out. Pretty much the whole gist of the whole thing was I wanted fans to see it and that's what the Red Sox and I agreed on.... I didn't expect all of this with the ball. Sometimes in life you think you're doing the right thing and it doesn't turn out that way. That's kind of what happened here."



i don't suppose any of you that tarred and feathered this guy before they knew diddly about it would care to make an open apology here, huh? :?:

MUsoxfan
01-27-2005, 03:43 PM
No apology from me. It should have never come to this.

Ol' No. 2
01-27-2005, 03:46 PM
finally


The Red Sox let Doug Mientkiewicz go, but they'll get back a historic baseball. At least on loan for a year.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/story/275213p-235644c.htmlGee, I thought he might bring it with him and show it to his new teammates. It will probably be the closest they come to a WS ball this season.:D:

HoustonAstros967
01-27-2005, 03:48 PM
I think he should give the ball back. He had little to do with their victory. They should give it to dave roberts. Now he deserves it. DAVE ROBERTS RULES!

voodoochile
01-27-2005, 04:00 PM
"When they asked for it they got it," Mientkiewicz said. "They're coming to get it. It's over and done with."

"It was never an argument," Mientkiewicz said. "There was never a fight. There were never words exchanged. We worked something out. Pretty much the whole gist of the whole thing was I wanted fans to see it and that's what the Red Sox and I agreed on.... I didn't expect all of this with the ball. Sometimes in life you think you're doing the right thing and it doesn't turn out that way. That's kind of what happened here."



i don't suppose any of you that tarred and feathered this guy before they knew diddly about it would care to make an open apology here, huh? :?:

No, he's still a jerk...

mantis1212
01-27-2005, 05:10 PM
"When they asked for it they got it," Mientkiewicz said. "They're coming to get it. It's over and done with."

"It was never an argument," Mientkiewicz said. "There was never a fight. There were never words exchanged. We worked something out. Pretty much the whole gist of the whole thing was I wanted fans to see it and that's what the Red Sox and I agreed on.... I didn't expect all of this with the ball. Sometimes in life you think you're doing the right thing and it doesn't turn out that way. That's kind of what happened here."



i don't suppose any of you that tarred and feathered this guy before they knew diddly about it would care to make an open apology here, huh? :?:

So he's not a jerk for "loaning" them the ball for a year? What a guy- I hope they're paying a reasonable interest rate.

Quote: We worked something out. Pretty much the whole gist of the whole thing was I wanted fans to see it and that's what the Red Sox and I agreed on...

Um, no Doug, you wanted to get something out of it for yourself, plain and simple.

My opinion is this guy's an ass

Wsoxmike59
01-30-2005, 10:28 AM
The way I see it the ball should go to the Red Sox Organization, no ifs ands or buts about it.

I seem to recall that when Steve "Psycho" Lyons caught the ball for the last out at Old Comiskey Park in 1990 he handed it over to Jerry Reisndorf after the game for it to be displayed in the Hall of Fame Room in New Comiskey Park.

Fenway
02-03-2005, 02:04 PM
finally we can put this to bed

World Series ball arrives at Fenway Park

http://cbs4boston.com/massachusetts/MA--WorldSeriesBall-gn/resources_news_html
BOSTON --The ball used for the final out of the first Boston's first World Series title in 86 years got star treatment when it was brought to Fenway Park on Thursday.

With a nearby meter maid ticketing cars but few fans, if any, looking on, two armored guards carried the ball in a black canvas bag down a red carpet that had been laid out along Yawkey Way -- and brought it inside the ballpark.

idseer
02-03-2005, 03:18 PM
So he's not a jerk for "loaning" them the ball for a year?

exactly! damn nice of him in fact.

Fenway
02-03-2005, 03:38 PM
exactly! damn nice of him in fact.

http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/AP_Photo/2005/02/03/1107466096_4168.jpg
The ball from the final out of Boston's first World Series title in 86 years got star treatment when it was brought to Fenway Park today. (AP Photo)

Ol' No. 2
02-03-2005, 03:40 PM
exactly! damn nice of him in fact.That Doug Mientwhataputz is a real prince of a guy, all right. They should put a statue of him out in front of Fenway. With the ball in his pocket.

idseer
02-03-2005, 03:46 PM
That Doug Mientwhataputz is a real prince of a guy, all right. They should put a statue of him out in front of Fenway. With the ball in his pocket.

perhaps one of him catching it for the final out. the man is a hero.

Ol' No. 2
02-03-2005, 03:50 PM
perhaps one of him catching it for the final out. the man is a hero.It was a weak grounder to the pitcher. My mother could have caught that.

Nick@Nite
02-03-2005, 04:13 PM
It was a weak grounder to the pitcher. My mother could have caught that.

Tell that to Bill Buckner. :cool:

ma-gaga
02-03-2005, 04:17 PM
Let him have the ball. If he didn't immediately give it to Fracona or Foulke, it's his. Let him have his world series trophy. He's put up with enough crap, and he earned it.

The team asking for it back 3 months later and only after the request of a freaking beat reporter is seriously weak. :angry:

mantis1212
02-03-2005, 04:36 PM
perhaps one of him catching it for the final out. the man is a hero.

OK dude, now you're just being ridiculous. Are you his dad or something?

samram
02-03-2005, 05:57 PM
perhaps one of him catching it for the final out. the man is a hero.

Yeah, I think Mientkiewicz's reception of an underhanded toss from three feet away compares favorably with Mays's catch in the '54 series. And Joe Carter's homerun in game 6 of the 1993 series- nothing compared to that amazing catch by Dougie.

idseer
02-03-2005, 06:06 PM
OK dude, now you're just being ridiculous. Are you his dad or something?

that would be MR Mietkiewicz to you, son.

doublem23
02-03-2005, 07:21 PM
The team asking for it back 3 months later and only after the request of a freaking beat reporter is seriously weak. :angry:

Agreed. I would have sent some hired goons.

mantis1212
02-04-2005, 11:35 AM
that would be MR Mietkiewicz to you, son.

I ain't your son, chief. You may think you're cute, but you're just annoying. And now number one on my ignore list.

idseer
02-04-2005, 12:15 PM
I ain't your son, chief. You may think you're cute, but you're just annoying. And now number one on my ignore list.

oh well. sucks to be you. :smile: