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View Full Version : Alex Cora agrees to play with the Tribe.


Clement's beard
01-13-2005, 11:54 AM
Per cbssportsline. Not a bad signing.

NonetheLoaiza
01-13-2005, 12:04 PM
does this mean kenny is done?

Ol' No. 2
01-13-2005, 12:06 PM
does this mean kenny is done?Unless he pulls Iguchi out of his hat, I would think so. Sometimes it pays to know when to stop.

Jjav829
01-13-2005, 12:16 PM
Ummm, where exactly on cbssportsline.com did you find this?

Soxzilla
01-13-2005, 12:17 PM
So they will move Cora to SS and they'll have a middle infield of Alex and Ronnie?

That isn't bad. At all.

Though I'd love to have Uribe and Belliard, maybe we could trade them harris straight up

Clement's beard
01-13-2005, 12:19 PM
Ummm, where exactly on cbssportsline.com did you find this?
Sorry, here is the blurb.

Cleveland Indians (http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/teams/page/CLE)Updated:01/13/2005Alex Cora, the Dodgers' regular second baseman for the past two years, has agreed in principle to play for the Indians, reports the Orange County Register. Cora, 29, who wasn't tended a contract by Los Angeles, likely will play shortstop for Cleveland at least during the first year of his two-year deal, the newspaper said.

FightingBillini
01-13-2005, 12:26 PM
It's under the section RUMOR MILL, I will believe it when I see it.

I still think that if he gets close to signing, Kenny will swoop in and pick him up. He is gonna play hardball with Iguchi as long as Alex hasnt signed, becuase he still has a backup plan. When Alex signs, he either has to pony up for Iguchi or take a gamble on wee Willie.

mdep524
01-13-2005, 01:06 PM
Hopefully if KW lets Cora go that means he has something in the works for Iguchi, Durham, Castillo, Larkin or Rollins.

Ol' No. 2
01-13-2005, 01:10 PM
Hopefully if KW lets Cora go that means he has something in the works for Iguchi, Durham, Castillo, Larkin or Rollins.All the reasonable trade scenarios I've seen involve trading Marte. Do any of these guys provide a big enough upgrade to offset making Cotts the primary LHP out of the bullpen?:(:

wdelaney72
01-13-2005, 01:15 PM
Exactly. With Wunsch gone, we really need Marte to be our left-handed specialist.

I've admitted repeatedly that I'm the president of FONC, but he's not proved enough to be our go-to left-handed specialist. As bad as Marte was last year, he still has a more credible resume.

No trading Marte, unless we get another quality LH bullpen pitcher.

Hangar18
01-13-2005, 01:22 PM
..................When Alex signs, he either has to pony up for Iguchi or take a gamble on wee willie
:reinsy " Im a Gamblin' Man! "

mdep524
01-13-2005, 01:29 PM
All the reasonable trade scenarios I've seen involve trading Marte. Do any of these guys provide a big enough upgrade to offset making Cotts the primary LHP out of the bullpen?:(:
I'd do it. A few reasons:
-I used to be a big Marte fan, but I feel like his progress has stalled (though he's still, obviously, an above average reliever)
-I think Cotts or Munoz could conceivably pick up some of Marte's slack.
-The biggest reason is that an everyday player like Luis Castillo, et. al. is far more valuable to the overall competitiveness of the Sox than a non-closer relief pitcher.

Ol' No. 2, I know your unflinching defense of Wee Wille, but any of those guys would be a serious upgrade at the 2B position and number 2 spot in the line up, and would be worth trading Marte, whose trade value may never be higher.

Ol' No. 2
01-13-2005, 01:43 PM
I'd do it. A few reasons:
-I used to be a big Marte fan, but I feel like his progress has stalled (though he's still, obviously, an above average reliever)
-I think Cotts or Munoz could conceivably pick up some of Marte's slack.
-The biggest reason is that an everyday player like Luis Castillo, et. al. is far more valuable to the overall competitiveness of the Sox than a non-closer relief pitcher.

Ol' No. 2, I know your unflinching defense of Wee Wille, but any of those guys would be a serious upgrade at the 2B position and number 2 spot in the line up, and would be worth trading Marte, whose trade value may never be higher.I'd agree these guys would be an upgrade over Willie. What I don't agree on is that the upgrade would offset the loss of Marte, who had a sub-par year in 2004, but is still one of the better LH relievers around. A LH reliever is almost an everyday player. Maybe Cotts will mature, but I don't get how you can have confidence in Cotts but not in Harris. Both are developing players.

Mickster
01-13-2005, 01:59 PM
Everyone keeps talking about Wee Willie like he's some huge hole at 2B. I just don't think he's THAT bad, really. He's above average on D, his OBP is average to say the least, he has NO power (I'll give you that), and needs to drastically improve in using his speed to his advantage. Can we get someone better? Sure. Will it realistically be that much of an upgrade? :dunno:

SoxBoy14
01-13-2005, 02:01 PM
Don't touch Marte. A year ago or so I saw Larry Himes waiting for a connecting flight at O'Hare. We talked a little baseball. What I most recall was his statement "because today's pitchers aren't built to pitch 270+ innings like the old school guys, you build a winning club in the bullpen and you START with solid middle relief." That being said, please leave Marte along. Damaso and Hermanson make an awesome middle relief combo.

Palehose13
01-13-2005, 02:04 PM
Everyone keeps talking about Wee Willie like he's some huge hole at 2B. I just don't think he's THAT bad, really. He's above average on D, his OBP is average to say the least, he has NO power (I'll give you that), and needs to drastically improve in using his speed to his advantage. Can we get someone better? Sure. Will it realistically be that much of an upgrade? :dunno:
All of this talk reminds me of teh Rowand talk beofre last year. Maybe we should give Willie a full year to see what he can do.

Lip Man 1
01-13-2005, 02:21 PM
Mickster:

Yes Wee Willie IS that bad.

I knew the Sox weren't getting Cora because of who his agent is.

Regarding Rowand...Palehose, the fact is that no one yet knows if last year was a fluke or not with him. I hope it was not, the Sox are going to badly need his production especially if Thomas is out a month or longer.

How this applies to Harris is that in my opinion if you have a chance to get someone who has proven themselves at least to some degree already you have less question marks.

Lip

Ol' No. 2
01-13-2005, 02:34 PM
Mickster:

Yes Wee Willie IS that bad.

I knew the Sox weren't getting Cora because of who his agent is.

Regarding Rowand...Palehose, the fact is that no one yet knows if last year was a fluke or not with him. I hope it was not, the Sox are going to badly need his production especially if Thomas is out a month or longer.

How this applies to Harris is that in my opinion if you have a chance to get someone who has proven themselves at least to some degree already you have less question marks.

LipIn 2002, Rowand struggled early when he wasn't playing much, but once he started getting regular playing time he took off. In 2003 he started the season at less than 100% because of his dirt-bike accident. Once he had fully rehabbed, he hit pretty darn well. Last year he finally put a whole year together. Anything's possible, but given what he'd done in 2002 and 2003, I don't see how you can say 2004 was a fluke.

I've been a big Harris booster, but I can't argue your point that he hasn't proven himself yet. It's still potential, and if you can get a proven player, it's an upgrade. But at what price? To me, the loss in replacing Marte with Cotts more than offsets any gain in replacing Harris.

OurBitchinMinny
01-13-2005, 02:48 PM
All the reasonable trade scenarios I've seen involve trading Marte. Do any of these guys provide a big enough upgrade to offset making Cotts the primary LHP out of the bullpen?:(:
marte was nothing special last year. How many times did he walk in the winning run last year?

Ol' No. 2
01-13-2005, 02:53 PM
marte was nothing special last year. How many times did he walk in the winning run last year?Look past one year.

gosox41
01-13-2005, 03:09 PM
marte was nothing special last year. How many times did he walk in the winning run last year?
Marte has been one of the better left handed relievers in the league the last 3 seasons or so. Even through last year's struggles, he is still better then Cotts.



Bob

santo=dorf
01-13-2005, 03:28 PM
Damaso was probably nursing a tired shoulder last year with the way Manuel used him in 2003. Take a look at last year's stats:
3.42 ERA (2.78 on the Road)
1.22 WHIP
34 BB (same as 2003)
68 K's (down from 87)
10 HR (only 3 in 2003, 8 of the 10 were at home)

and he's signed for long term at a good price. I can't see KW giving him up, but I remember Ozzie not being too impressed with him last season. I think he'll be more automatic in 2005.

mdep524
01-13-2005, 03:34 PM
Marte has been one of the better left handed relievers in the league the last 3 seasons or so. Even through last year's struggles, he is still better then Cotts.
I don't think anyone is going to argue that Cotts is outright better than Marte. But a solid argument can be made that Marte is a bit overrated, and the drop off from Marte to Cotts/Munoz/Meaux/Castro would be significantly offset by the upgrade to an above average number 2 hitter.

Mohoney
01-13-2005, 03:49 PM
Do any of these guys provide a big enough upgrade to offset making Cotts the primary LHP out of the bullpen?:(:
No. Emphatically no.

Sign a free agent instead.

California Sox
01-13-2005, 04:55 PM
I don't think anyone is going to argue that Cotts is outright better than Marte. But a solid argument can be made that Marte is a bit overrated, and the drop off from Marte to Cotts/Munoz/Meaux/Castro would be significantly offset by the upgrade to an above average number 2 hitter.
The argument could also be made that the reason Marte's numbers have dropped off is because Cotts/Munoz et al inspire so little confidence in our manager that Marte is expected to pitch until his arm falls off. I know we're heady with the thought of Hermanson and Vizcaino giving us a solid bullpen, but aside from Shingo and Marte, pretty much everyone else blew out there last year. I'd rather have some bullpen depth than an upgrade a second. For now. If it turns out that we have so much bullpen depth this season that someone is expendable, I'd make a midseason trade.

John Barrett
01-13-2005, 05:05 PM
All of this talk reminds me of teh Rowand talk beofre last year. Maybe we should give Willie a full year to see what he can do.

Exactly... also if we can give crede some slack surely willie deserves some!

maurice
01-13-2005, 08:17 PM
if we can give crede some slack surely willie deserves some!
True. Crede has been in steady decline since 2002 and has almost twice as many MLB ABs than Harris. If you're in favor of giving Crede a third full season as everyday 3B, you should be willing to give Harris at least one full season as everyday (or at least platoon) 2B. Nonetheless, I'd like a better "Plan B" for both players than Wilson Valdez.

With respect to Rowand, I don't know whether he will match his 2004 performance, but it's extremely unlikely that he'll fall off the map. In light of all the BS posted here about "AAAron," nobody noticed that his numbers coming into 2004 were actually pretty darn respectable for a young, part-time, first-time CF. As of now, his career averages are .290 / .342 / .475.

A. Cavatica
01-13-2005, 09:24 PM
Marte is definitely "touchable".

The Sox have been stockpiling lefthanded pitchers for a while now, and there's a bit of a logjam behind Marte and Cotts: Munoz, Meaux, Stewart, Sanders, Heath Phillips, Jim Bullard. We could afford to trade Marte and break in another lefty if he was the key to getting something else that we need.

And didn't we re-acquire Wunsch?

A. Cavatica
01-13-2005, 09:28 PM
In light of all the BS posted here about "AAAron," nobody noticed that his numbers coming into 2004 were actually pretty darn respectable for a young, part-time, first-time CF.
Some of us did. I opposed the Carl Everett trade from the beginning on the grounds that he would take at-bats away from Rowand. His numbers at each age have been better than Everett's at the same age, and of course Rowand is trending upward and Everett is one more injury away from retirement.

WhiteSoxFan84
01-14-2005, 02:45 PM
Mickster:

Yes Wee Willie IS that bad.

I knew the Sox weren't getting Cora because of who his agent is.

Regarding Rowand...Palehose, the fact is that no one yet knows if last year was a fluke or not with him. I hope it was not, the Sox are going to badly need his production especially if Thomas is out a month or longer.

How this applies to Harris is that in my opinion if you have a chance to get someone who has proven themselves at least to some degree already you have less question marks.

Lip
Lip, did you see Willie's OBP last year? It was .343, which is pretty damn good. I'm not an OBP specialist, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn.

That being said, I still think Willie has a LOT of room to improve especially in the clutch. But, he is nowhere near HORRIBLE.

mcfish
01-14-2005, 03:07 PM
marte was nothing special last year. How many times did he walk in the winning run last year?How many times did Cotts?