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View Full Version : Total Speculation: No more Darrin Jackson?


32nd&Wallace
01-11-2005, 03:12 PM
Excuse me for starting rumors, but I noticed that Darrin Jackson's name is nowhere on the Soxfest line-up. That is odd because the broadcasters have to attend these things.
Combine this with the fact that someone on this website that there maybe some sort of annoucnement regarding Sox broadcasting.

fledgedrallycap
01-11-2005, 03:25 PM
Well, either you are seriously on to something or they don't feel as though DJ would lure anyone down to the Hyatt...

32nd&Wallace
01-11-2005, 03:28 PM
Also, I think his contract may be up this year...

RKMeibalane
01-11-2005, 03:29 PM
Well, either you are seriously on to something or they don't feel as though DJ would lure anyone down to the Hyatt...
You mean you're not looking forward to hearing him say, "Wheee!"

Jjav829
01-11-2005, 03:29 PM
Wasn't DJ getting married this offseason? Or did I just make that up? :dunno:

That could be a possible explanation.

fledgedrallycap
01-11-2005, 03:31 PM
Wasn't DJ getting married this offseason? Or did I just make that up? :dunno:

That could be a possible explanation.
I think he has kids, now he may be on his second marriage, but I think you may be getting cofused with Stone who just got married this past offseason in Arizona

fledgedrallycap
01-11-2005, 03:34 PM
You mean you're not looking forward to hearing him say, "Wheee!":hawk

"I love it when you analyze"

stillz
01-11-2005, 03:37 PM
Bring back Wimpy!

mweflen
01-11-2005, 03:39 PM
I for one hope DJ comes back. I like his enthusiasm, and I love it when he busts Hawk's balls over some "old timey" story or other (my favorite was when hawk was talking about 60's baseballs, and how the seams were not stitched as tightly as today's juiced balls, and DJ was just like "Oh boy, here we go again..."). I like the sort of razzing thing they do with each other.

LVSoxFan
01-11-2005, 03:53 PM
I don't mind deejay, but I salivate at the idea of Stone calling Sox games.


Never happen, I know...

Tekijawa
01-11-2005, 03:54 PM
I heard he's unable to fly because of his high paper diet he started after making too many bets with Hawk

I_Liked_Manuel
01-11-2005, 03:58 PM
he's the biggest waste of space in the booth- he was brought in to be the 'fresh' voice and to draw in the younger crowd. thats fine, but all he does is try and act like hawk.

zach074
01-11-2005, 04:05 PM
he's the biggest waste of space in the booth- he was brought in to be the 'fresh' voice and to draw in the younger crowd. thats fine, but all he does is try and act like hawk.
Well two Hawks are better than one!:smile:

AZChiSoxFan
01-11-2005, 04:08 PM
Excuse me for starting rumors, but I noticed that Darrin Jackson's name is nowhere on the Soxfest line-up. That is odd because the broadcasters have to attend these things.
Combine this with the fact that someone on this website that there maybe some sort of annoucnement regarding Sox broadcasting.Check with Kruzer's cousin to see what's going to happen.

HITMEN OF 77
01-11-2005, 04:13 PM
I for one hope DJ comes back. I like his enthusiasm, and I love it when he busts Hawk's balls over some "old timey" story or other (my favorite was when hawk was talking about 60's baseballs, and how the seams were not stitched as tightly as today's juiced balls, and DJ was just like "Oh boy, here we go again..."). I like the sort of razzing thing they do with each other.
I hope he's back too. I don't want Steve Stone, some cub leftover in our booth. Heck if he comes to Sox we might as well bring Santo over too.

Baby Fisk
01-11-2005, 04:22 PM
we might as well bring Santo over too.:o: My God!

MarkM2112
01-11-2005, 04:23 PM
I hope he's back too. I don't want Steve Stone, some cub leftover in our booth. Heck if he comes to Sox we might as well bring Santo over too.
I would like to see Stone in the booth because:

1) He knows what he's talking about
2) Former Sox Player

However, I doubt that it will happen because Hawk tends to like to dominate airtime in the booth...

Mickster
01-11-2005, 04:28 PM
Heck if he comes to Sox we might as well bring Santo over too.[famous Santo voice over Brant Brown's dropped fly ball in '98] OH NOOOOOOOOOOOO! NOOOOOOOOOOO! [/famous Santo voice over Brant Brown's dropped fly ball in '98]

Uncle_Patrick
01-11-2005, 04:32 PM
Heck if he comes to Sox we might as well bring Santo over too.
Don't even joke about that.

jabrch
01-11-2005, 04:34 PM
Stone is a great color guy. I'd love to have him in the booth.

Chicago83
01-11-2005, 04:40 PM
I really hope this is true, DJ seems like a good guy, but I really don't like his job in the booth and I could do without his voice. Hawk is the best and really doesn't need anyone special with him, but anybody is an improvement over DJ. Steve Stone would be fun, but really anybody who is a liitle bit more experienced than DJ would be allright.

JKryl
01-11-2005, 04:41 PM
Stone is a great color guy. I'd love to have him in the booth.
I read in the paper last week that Stone was being considered as a possible GM of the Nationals. Of course, that could just be speculation on the part of the Sun-Times, and we'd never allow that here at WSI:roflmao:

Viva Medias B's
01-11-2005, 04:43 PM
In the Steve Stone thread, someone mentioned that DJ would not be at SoxFest because of a prior committment.

MUsoxfan
01-11-2005, 05:08 PM
we might as well bring Santo over too.
This message board needs to be cleansed somehow after that terribly unholy remark. If Santo came to the southside, I would never be able to watch another baseball game again on any level.

chisox77
01-11-2005, 05:15 PM
But Santo may be able to hit better than Crede if he played 3B - maybe that could be worked into the deal - color man/3B - whatever:?:

chisox77
01-11-2005, 05:16 PM
Or maybe get Robin Ventura to do color - that would be cool (see photo below)

jabrch
01-11-2005, 05:17 PM
I read in the paper last week that Stone was being considered as a possible GM of the Nationals. Of course, that could just be speculation on the part of the Sun-Times, and we'd never allow that here at WSI:roflmao:
I thought Bowden got that job full time? I know Stone was a top candidate or a GM job if the Vegas franchise happened, but that isn't happening.

darklord23
01-11-2005, 05:19 PM
i like hawk and dj their is nothing wrong with them

Hangar18
01-11-2005, 05:31 PM
I hope he's back too. I don't want Steve Stone, some cub leftover in our booth. Heck if he comes to Sox we might as well bring Santo over too.
If we can Get Stone here, we can put up a Statue and call him the Greatest
Sox Announcer ever. Getting Santo here, we could "retire" his #10.
I can see PHG getting a "10 Santo" Sox jersey :cool:

MUsoxfan
01-11-2005, 05:32 PM
i like hawk and dj their is nothing wrong with them
I agree that there's nothing wrong with them, but bringing Stone in would do a couple things 1) Bring in the casual fan 2) Bring in ex-Cub fans disgusted by the current state of that franchise 3) Stick it to the team on the northside 4) Bring in a great, well-known baseball mind to the booth

Brian26
01-11-2005, 05:44 PM
he's the biggest waste of space in the booth- he was brought in to be the 'fresh' voice and to draw in the younger crowd.
Screw the "younger crowd". I grew up watching Vin Scully and Joe Garagiola on the NBC Saturday Game of the Week, both of whom were about 100 years old in 1983 anyway. Demographics shouldn't matter when it comes to the national pasttime. A good announcer, no matter what his age, and the game itself should be able to sell the product. I'm assuming you want a younger guy like those nitwits they had on the Fox alternative broadcast last year? No thanks.

SpammySosa
01-11-2005, 06:07 PM
I for one hope DJ comes back. I like his enthusiasm, and I love it when he busts Hawk's balls over some "old timey" story or other (my favorite was when hawk was talking about 60's baseballs, and how the seams were not stitched as tightly as today's juiced balls, and DJ was just like "Oh boy, here we go again..."). I like the sort of razzing thing they do with each other.
I thought it was absolutely hilarious one game last year-Hawk was going on and on about(I believe) George Brett having serious problems with hemoroids during his playing days and finally DJ tried to get him to shut up because,"Hawk, no one wants to hear about that".
As for DJ's announcing, I agree he has shown enthusiasm here and there,but many times he is kinda bland. He is especially bad when Hawk has gone to the can or whatever and he is calling the game by himself. And both of them are guilty of long periods of silence.

soxtalker
01-11-2005, 06:11 PM
I'd like to steer the discussion back to the original topic of the thread. We've had plenty of threads addressing questions of "which Sox announcer do you like/want/approve/dislike, etc." Those are fine, but has anyone gleaned any info that would indicate whether it is signficant that DJ is missing from the Soxfest agenda.

SpammySosa
01-11-2005, 06:22 PM
Screw the "younger crowd". I grew up watching Vin Scully and Joe Garagiola on the NBC Saturday Game of the Week, both of whom were about 100 years old in 1983 anyway. Demographics shouldn't matter when it comes to the national pasttime. A good announcer, no matter what his age, and the game itself should be able to sell the product. I'm assuming you want a younger guy like those nitwits they had on the Fox alternative broadcast last year? No thanks.
I agree with you 100%. I grew up watching Scully and Garagiola too and loved them. I actually prefer the old school announcers because of the depth and insight they provide as well as their recollections of the "good ol' days". You can also hear a real love of the game in their voice that is missing with some of the cookie cutter broadcasters they have now. Give me guys like Hawk,Drysdale (God bless 'em)Scully and Garagiola anyday.

Brian26
01-11-2005, 06:41 PM
I agree with you 100%. I grew up watching Scully and Garagiola too and loved them. I actually prefer the old school announcers because of the depth and insight they provide as well as their recollections of the "good ol' days". You can also hear a real love of the game in their voice that is missing with some of the cookie cutter broadcasters they have now. Give me guys like Hawk,Drysdale (God bless 'em)Scully and Garagiola anyday.
If I could get in a time machine and go back to '83-'85, I'd make it a point to sit down in front of a television and watch This Week in Baseball with Mel Allen followed by the Game of the Week on NBC (Costas and Kubek would do the AL games, Vin and Joe the NL games). It didn't matter who was playing...it was a treat to watch.

I agree with you 100% on Drysdale. Another legend, may he rest in peace.

Brian26
01-11-2005, 06:44 PM
As for DJ's announcing, I agree he has shown enthusiasm here and there,but many times he is kinda bland. He is especially bad when Hawk has gone to the can or whatever and he is calling the game by himself. And both of them are guilty of long periods of silence.
What's funny is that a lot of people pine for Paciorek to come back to the booth. DJ right now is about at the same level Paciorek was after his first few years. DJ has improved immensely, but he does sound a bit unpolished when Hawk hands over the reigns to him to do pbp while Hawk's out smoking or taking a leak- yet, DJ is no worse than Paciorek was in the early 90's.

AZChiSoxFan
01-11-2005, 07:01 PM
Screw the "younger crowd". I grew up watching Vin Scully and Joe Garagiola on the NBC Saturday Game of the Week, both of whom were about 100 years old in 1983 anyway. Demographics shouldn't matter when it comes to the national pasttime. A good announcer, no matter what his age, and the game itself should be able to sell the product. I'm assuming you want a younger guy like those nitwits they had on the Fox alternative broadcast last year? No thanks.I too like the old school announcers, for the most part. I grew up listening to Vin Scully call Dodger games on radio. Vin is great. Joe Garagiola, however is another story. He used to be decent but not anymore. He does D-back games on local TV when Thom Brennaman goes away to do the FOX games, and he is just horrid. He will literally go 2 or 3 innings at a time without commenting once on the game at hand. ALL he does is tell baseball stories from the 1950's. He's also the national spokesperson for the anti-tobacco campaign, so God forbid the camera shows a player with a wad in his mouth. If they show that, Joe will go on for about 4 innings on how terrible that stuff is, what a bad example it is for all the kids watching, blah, blah, blah.

SpammySosa
01-11-2005, 07:02 PM
If I could get in a time machine and go back to '83-'85, I'd make it a point to sit down in front of a television and watch This Week in Baseball with Mel Allen followed by the Game of the Week on NBC (Costas and Kubek would do the AL games, Vin and Joe the NL games). It didn't matter who was playing...it was a treat to watch.

I agree with you 100% on Drysdale. Another legend, may he rest in peace.
I wish I had one of those time machines too-those were some great times. Sorry to get even more off subject soxtalker :wink: , but I LOVED Mel Allen and TWIB! I think it's awesome ESPN Classic shows the re-runs;they seem as great today as they did then. That poor excuse they have for TWIB now is an embarrassment to Allen and the great work him and that crew did. Too glossed up etc,etc.

soxtalker
01-11-2005, 07:18 PM
I wish I had one of those time machines too-those were some great times. Sorry to get even more off subject soxtalker :wink: , but I LOVED Mel Allen and TWIB! I think it's awesome ESPN Classic shows the re-runs;they seem as great today as they did then. That poor excuse they have for TWIB now is an embarrassment to Allen and the great work him and that crew did. Too glossed up etc,etc.
It's not that I object to these debates. I still remember the Wimpy-Hawk duo fondly; the "bat" commercial that Wimpy made was priceless. But I would like to know about DJ's status.

Chisox003
01-11-2005, 07:32 PM
DJ is worth keeping around, just for his arguments with Hawk, long periods of awkward silence between the 2, the stupid comments and jokes, and his occasional WHEEEEEEEEE! or WHOOOOOO! on a great play or something Hawk said...I dont necessarily think DJ is a good announcer, but him and Hawk make a hilarious duo...Hes probably lost in his back yard or something, he'll show up (maybe if he opens his eyes all the way....reminds me of Mr Magoo)
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:eXo0fr2goAgJ:http://digilander.libero.it/iacopobalocco/blindlazio_g00002b.gif (http://digilander.libero.it/iacopobalocco/blindlazio_g00002b.gif)

jordan23ventura
01-11-2005, 07:36 PM
Screw the "younger crowd". I grew up watching Vin Scully and Joe Garagiola on the NBC Saturday Game of the Week, both of whom were about 100 years old in 1983 anyway. Demographics shouldn't matter when it comes to the national pasttime. A good announcer, no matter what his age, and the game itself should be able to sell the product. I'm assuming you want a younger guy like those nitwits they had on the Fox alternative broadcast last year? No thanks.
That 'alternative brodcast' ranks very high on the list of the worst/most annoying/most pathetic/most god awful things I've ever seen in my life. I kept expecting a break in the middle of the game for a Puff Daddy video or something.

Ol Aches & Pains
01-11-2005, 08:41 PM
And both of them are guilty of long periods of silence.
Not long enough.

cubhater
01-11-2005, 11:03 PM
Screw the "younger crowd". I grew up watching Vin Scully and Joe Garagiola on the NBC Saturday Game of the Week, both of whom were about 100 years old in 1983 anyway. Demographics shouldn't matter when it comes to the national pasttime. A good announcer, no matter what his age, and the game itself should be able to sell the product. I'm assuming you want a younger guy like those nitwits they had on the Fox alternative broadcast last year? No thanks.
Man, you bring back childhood memories! I'd take Scully and Joe G. over any of the bozos Fox has.

On the same topic, I love watching This Week in Baseball on ESPN Classic! I miss Mel Allen's "How about that!".

cubhater
01-11-2005, 11:05 PM
You can also hear a real love of the game in their voice that is missing with some of the cookie cutter broadcasters they have now. Give me guys like Hawk,Drysdale (God bless 'em)Scully and Garagiola anyday.
What about Tim McCarver?:tongue:

petekat
01-11-2005, 11:06 PM
second that. Dj has really come into his own- works well with Hawk



I for one hope DJ comes back. I like his enthusiasm, and I love it when he busts Hawk's balls over some "old timey" story or other (my favorite was when hawk was talking about 60's baseballs, and how the seams were not stitched as tightly as today's juiced balls, and DJ was just like "Oh boy, here we go again..."). I like the sort of razzing thing they do with each other.

CleeFan101
01-11-2005, 11:12 PM
i cant imagine a game without Hawk and DJ anymore... and i tell you what i really took them for granted when we played on Fox... those were some of the worse announcers ever... im personally a big Hawk/DJ fan and i hope those 2 are back next year... it will be good to hear them after having to listen to dolts like madden and theisman in football for so long. :angry:

BRDSR
01-11-2005, 11:15 PM
I hope he's back too. I don't want Steve Stone, some cub leftover in our booth. Heck if he comes to Sox we might as well bring Santo over too.
Stone is not a Cub leftover just like Harry Caray was not a Sox leftover. Stone was asked to leave the Cubs because he was too blunt and truthful about the organization. This is something White Sox fans would embrace but Cubs fans can't face the truth if something is wrong with their beloved Cubbies. Stone was too good for the Chicago Cubs and so they forced him out. The more I think about it, the more I think this thread might be onto something. Steve Stone is a talented broadcaster and the only reason he wouldn't be announcing games next spring is if it were his decision. He could get a job as a Major League baseball announcer, whether radio or tv, in at least 15 cities.

kruzer31
01-11-2005, 11:25 PM
Check with Kruzer's cousin to see what's going to happen.

Yes, funny one. I guess my cousin was off on the whole Podsednik deal but yes he did tell me this and does reside in the bay area. Make fun if you like, but if you check back under my original post about this on DEC 14th of 2004 the last part of my post was about El Duque when no one had any clue the sox were interested. Maybe I got lucky or maybe I know a few people that deal with the White Sox. I have been a season ticket holder for ten years almost now and if any of you would like to chat I will be at the big atrium bar friday night at Sox Fest in a 1983 Greg Luzinski Jersey. You guys take care.

Jeff

Erik The Red
01-12-2005, 01:13 AM
Yes, funny one. I guess my cousin was off on the whole Podsednik deal but yes he did tell me this and does reside in the bay area. Make fun if you like, but if you check back under my original post about this on DEC 14th of 2004 the last part of my post was about El Duque when no one had any clue the sox were interested. Maybe I got lucky or maybe I know a few people that deal with the White Sox. I have been a season ticket holder for ten years almost now and if any of you would like to chat I will be at the big atrium bar friday night at Sox Fest in a 1983 Greg Luzinski Jersey. You guys take care.

Jeff Don't take people here so seriously.

Rocklive99
01-12-2005, 01:32 AM
I don't like the Hawk and DJ connection, and that inning or two when Hawk goes to the bathroom or whatever is brutal.

He doesn't sound that bad when he does the FOX national games tho, I think he tries to act too silly on purpose or something with Hawk

jordan23ventura
01-12-2005, 02:20 AM
Yes, funny one. I guess my cousin was off on the whole Podsednik deal but yes he did tell me this and does reside in the bay area. Make fun if you like, but if you check back under my original post about this on DEC 14th of 2004 the last part of my post was about El Duque when no one had any clue the sox were interested. Maybe I got lucky or maybe I know a few people that deal with the White Sox. I have been a season ticket holder for ten years almost now and if any of you would like to chat I will be at the big atrium bar friday night at Sox Fest in a 1983 Greg Luzinski Jersey. You guys take care.

Jeff
And you know that if everything you said went down tons of people here would be going nuts every time you post.

Rumors are rumors. When they don't go through no one should be surprised. That's why they are called 'rumors.'

jordan23ventura
01-12-2005, 02:23 AM
I don't like the Hawk and DJ connection, and that inning or two when Hawk goes to the bathroom or whatever is brutal.

He doesn't sound that bad when he does the FOX national games tho, I think he tries to act too silly on purpose or something with Hawk
I know.

I would have thrown Borchard in that deal with Milwaukee if we could have gotten Uecker.

MUsoxfan
01-12-2005, 02:31 AM
I know.

I would have thrown Borchard in that deal with Milwaukee if we could have gotten Uecker.
Uecker is the most prized possession that franchise has. 620am comes in pretty clearly during baseball season down here. I love listening to Ueck

Ol' No. 2
01-12-2005, 10:22 AM
Stone is not a Cub leftover just like Harry Caray was not a Sox leftover. Stone was asked to leave the Cubs because he was too blunt and truthful about the organization. This is something White Sox fans would embrace but Cubs fans can't face the truth if something is wrong with their beloved Cubbies. Stone was too good for the Chicago Cubs and so they forced him out. The more I think about it, the more I think this thread might be onto something. Steve Stone is a talented broadcaster and the only reason he wouldn't be announcing games next spring is if it were his decision. He could get a job as a Major League baseball announcer, whether radio or tv, in at least 15 cities.DJ is an ass. I'd love to have Stone broadcasting, if only to tell Hawk to shut up when he gets off on one of his tangents. But, alas, there's just not enough room in the booth for both Hawk and Stone.

LVSoxFan
01-12-2005, 10:57 AM
Well there's two kinks in the Stone fantasy to consider.

There was a lot of talk of him moving somewhere when the Cubs let him dangle in the wind, but from what I recall he was really interested in becoming a GM somewhere. Although, having no experience, people pointed out, who would hire him.

The other is that Stone got in hot water--with Cubdom, which doesn't apparently appreciate candor--for openly criticizing the team.

Now, how--in a JR-owned world where people like Mariotti are considered mortal enemies--would JR want a guy in the booth who might start criticizing the organization, if things start going south?

Just a thought.

AZChiSoxFan
01-12-2005, 04:27 PM
Yes, funny one. I guess my cousin was off on the whole Podsednik deal but yes he did tell me this and does reside in the bay area. Make fun if you like, but if you check back under my original post about this on DEC 14th of 2004 the last part of my post was about El Duque when no one had any clue the sox were interested. Maybe I got lucky or maybe I know a few people that deal with the White Sox. I have been a season ticket holder for ten years almost now and if any of you would like to chat I will be at the big atrium bar friday night at Sox Fest in a 1983 Greg Luzinski Jersey. You guys take care.

JeffI apologize. I was just trying to have some fun, no harm intended.

Ol' No. 2
01-12-2005, 04:30 PM
Well there's two kinks in the Stone fantasy to consider.

There was a lot of talk of him moving somewhere when the Cubs let him dangle in the wind, but from what I recall he was really interested in becoming a GM somewhere. Although, having no experience, people pointed out, who would hire him.

The other is that Stone got in hot water--with Cubdom, which doesn't apparently appreciate candor--for openly criticizing the team.

Now, how--in a JR-owned world where people like Mariotti are considered mortal enemies--would JR want a guy in the booth who might start criticizing the organization, if things start going south?

Just a thought.I see a huge difference between honest criticism of the team by Stone and the mindless ranting of Moronotti.

AZChiSoxFan
01-12-2005, 04:37 PM
Well there's two kinks in the Stone fantasy to consider.

There was a lot of talk of him moving somewhere when the Cubs let him dangle in the wind, but from what I recall he was really interested in becoming a GM somewhere. Although, having no experience, people pointed out, who would hire him.

The other is that Stone got in hot water--with Cubdom, which doesn't apparently appreciate candor--for openly criticizing the team.

Now, how--in a JR-owned world where people like Mariotti are considered mortal enemies--would JR want a guy in the booth who might start criticizing the organization, if things start going south?

Just a thought.I may be wrong on this, but I don't think Stone criticized the organization very much. He called out players and Dusty for not doing their jobs. Then, when Dusty cried to the GM about it, he backed Dusty and the boys. Mariotti went off on mindless rants about the Sox organization.

jerry myers
01-12-2005, 08:30 PM
I must have missed something is he rumored to be done with the sox. or what then i hear things about steve stone,what makes this a topic? I like DJ i would miss him in the booth.But i could get used to somebody else exciting as long as we win are division. go sox!

Brian26
01-12-2005, 08:37 PM
A couple people mentioned that ESPN Classic reruns the TWIB's with Mel Allen. Are those on just during the season? I'd love to catch some of those. Remember the closing when the credits rolled? They'd always have that highlight reel of crazy catches. There's one shot of two outfielders, I think at Anaheim, colliding and then going over the old green wall at the Big A. Good stuff.

bhayes520
01-12-2005, 08:47 PM
i like both hawk and dj, but i like them both separately...not like when dj is alone, just sometimes i like dj and want hawk to shut up, or vice versa, just depends on my day maybe?

i would love to see Steve Stone in here though. an honest man who knows the sport well...who doesn't want that, unless of course you are from the booze-infested north side stadium...

either way is fine with me as long as we are at least 89-73

Soxfest
01-12-2005, 08:49 PM
Stone is not a Cub leftover just like Harry Caray was not a Sox leftover. Stone was asked to leave the Cubs because he was too blunt and truthful about the organization. This is something White Sox fans would embrace but Cubs fans can't face the truth if something is wrong with their beloved Cubbies. Stone was too good for the Chicago Cubs and so they forced him out. The more I think about it, the more I think this thread might be onto something. Steve Stone is a talented broadcaster and the only reason he wouldn't be announcing games next spring is if it were his decision. He could get a job as a Major League baseball announcer, whether radio or tv, in at least 15 cities.I agree with you sir.

chisox2005
01-13-2005, 03:12 PM
No offense to Darrin as a person, but anything is an ugrade over him. :o: