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View Full Version : Maggs or Beltran


Ol' No. 2
01-10-2005, 10:38 AM
With the $119M the Mets are paying out to Beltran, the $70M that the Sox were offering Maggs doesn't seem so big anymore. Maybe he would have gotten a lot more in FA if he hadn't been injured. So suppose the injury hadn't happened. Suppose Maggs had gone on to produce a typical Magglio year. For the same amount of money, which would you choose, Ordonez (a proven commodity) or Beltran (bigger upside, but hasn't proven anything yet).

FightingBillini
01-10-2005, 10:46 AM
Everyone says Beltran hasn't proven anything yet. To me, he proved a lot in the playoffs. I think that Beltran will have an unbelievable career, and will end up in Cooperstown. In my years watching baseball, albeit not many, I have never seen another player wiht the natural ability Beltran has. He will be a .300 hitter, mark my words. I see him becoming the next Willie Mays.

samram
01-10-2005, 10:51 AM
I've got to take Beltran for the same money. I don't think he'll consistently hit .300 like Maggs has, but he'll hit a similar amount of homeruns, can drive in a lot of runs, and is a far better defender, and is a much better base stealer. I do worry a little bit about his attitude when his team isn't doing well- his numbers with KC last year weren't very impressive and there were questions asked about the effort he was giving a few years ago, IIRC.

Baby Fisk
01-10-2005, 11:10 AM
Assuming I'm voting for the Magglio who didn't become a complete ***** ****** ********** **** ****** ****** **** ******* ***** ************** ************* this past year, then my vote is for Magglio.

JRIG
01-10-2005, 11:17 AM
For the same amount of money, which would you choose, Ordonez (a proven commodity) or Beltran (bigger upside, but hasn't proven anything yet).
Hasn't proven anything yet???

Check out his stats (http://www.baseballreference.com/b/beltrca01.shtml), or I'll just give you the highlights:

.267/.367/.548 in 2004 with 42 stolen bases in 45 attempts and 92 BB
.307/.389/.522 in 2003 with 41 stolen bases in 45 attempts and 72 BB
and two years of great stats before that. Plus he's an great defensive player.

So what exactly should Beltran do to prove himself to you?

samram
01-10-2005, 11:23 AM
Hasn't proven anything yet???

Check out his stats (http://www.baseballreference.com/b/beltrca01.shtml), or I'll just give you the highlights:

.267/.367/.548 in 2004 with 42 stolen bases in 45 attempts and 92 BB
.307/.389/.522 in 2003 with 41 stolen bases in 45 attempts and 72 BB
and two years of great stats before that. Plus he's an great defensive player.

So what exactly should Beltran do to prove himself to you?
Isn't his stolen base percentage one of the highest ever for those with more than 100 attempts?

Ol' No. 2
01-10-2005, 11:26 AM
Hasn't proven anything yet???

Check out his stats (http://www.baseballreference.com/b/beltrca01.shtml), or I'll just give you the highlights:

.267/.367/.548 in 2004 with 42 stolen bases in 45 attempts and 92 BB
.307/.389/.522 in 2003 with 41 stolen bases in 45 attempts and 72 BB
and two years of great stats before that. Plus he's an great defensive player.

So what exactly should Beltran do to prove himself to you?Beltran has shown flashes, but hasn't been a model of consistency. He seems to be on the every-other-year program. He's been pretty good in odd-numbered years, but the even-numbered years aren't anything to write home about. And he still strikes out a lot. Until 2003 he struck out about twice as much as he walked. Magglio was over .300 just about every year. So Ordonez has put up numbers every year about as good as Beltran does in his best years.

JRIG
01-10-2005, 11:32 AM
Beltran has shown flashes, but hasn't been a model of consistency. He seems to be on the every-other-year program. He's been pretty good in odd-numbered years, but the even-numbered years aren't anything to write home about. And he still strikes out a lot. Until 2003 he struck out about twice as much as he walked. Magglio was over .300 just about every year. So Ordonez has put up numbers every year about as good as Beltran does in his best years.
Boy, I don't want to take anything away from Mags, who was an outstanding player and a model of consitency for many years. But even in Beltran's "down" years, he's probably about equal value with Ordonez when baserunning and defense are taken into account. I'm not a big stolen base guy, but Beltran has a 90% success rate in his career. When you're only caught one out of ten times, that's very valuable.

Ol' No. 2
01-10-2005, 11:35 AM
Boy, I don't want to take anything away from Mags, who was an outstanding player and a model of consitency for many years. But even in Beltran's "down" years, he's probably about equal value with Ordonez when baserunning and defense are taken into account. I'm not a big stolen base guy, but Beltran has a 90% success rate in his career. When you're only caught one out of ten times, that's very valuable.So is .267 with 40 SB better than .310 with only 10 SB? I guess it's a matter of opinion, but I don't think so.

JRIG
01-10-2005, 11:45 AM
So is .267 with 40 SB better than .310 with only 10 SB? I guess it's a matter of opinion, but I don't think so.
Well, even last year Beltran had an OBP of almost .370 and slugged .548. Those are pretty much in line with Ordonez' numbers in his career. Throw in a 90% SB rate and great defense in center field and yeah, I'll take Beltran. But, I don't think you'd go too wrong with Mags either. :smile:

Ol' No. 2
01-10-2005, 11:55 AM
Well, even last year Beltran had an OBP of almost .370 and slugged .548. Those are pretty much in line with Ordonez' numbers in his career. Throw in a 90% SB rate and great defense in center field and yeah, I'll take Beltran. But, I don't think you'd go too wrong with Mags either. :smile:Beltran is not going to have the killer B's hitting around him in NY. We'll see how he does.

I think it's a pretty safe bet that Magglio would have gotten a lot more than the $70M the Sox offered if he had not gotten hurt.