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View Full Version : Shock! Cubs fan thinks Urinal is better than Cell!


hsnterprize
01-10-2005, 07:13 AM
Cellview22 appears to be one of the lone voices of reason in a thread about Wrigley Field vs. U.S. Cellular Field on a website dedicated to skyscrapers and architecture. He posts there under Takatsu10, and I'm awaiting my password to be OK'd so I can add my $.02 to this thread (http://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=58890&perpage=25&highlight=A%20Tale%20of%20Two%20Ballparks&pagenumber=1).

Long story short...it's another comparison thread between Wrigley and U.S. Cellular Field. I feel I need to educate some people about this comparison because of the "neighborhood location" of Wrigley against the locale of U.S. Cellular Field.

I look at it like this...we all know Cubs fans are going to look at every avdantage they can to show why their ballpark is "better" than ours, but one educated White Sox fan can change a lot of bad perceptions...and I intend to be that fan. Wish me luck.

Irishsoxfan
01-10-2005, 07:35 AM
Well reading that site just about ruined my lunch. I can't speak for the neighborhoods, food etc. because I live nowhere near Chicago but I know a bunch of morons when I see them.

hsnterprize
01-10-2005, 07:39 AM
Well, like I said before...I'll give the skyscraper lovers some speech once the moderators OK my password. I can't post on the site yet, but I'm chomping at the bit.

PaleHoseGeorge
01-10-2005, 08:01 AM
The guy is a Cub fan, okay? He even has a Lovable Loser beer logo next to his messages. The people posting in his thread have no clue. Some of them even admit they have no clue. Why bother?

I really wouldn't waste my time. You'll get as much satisfaction talking to the wall.

jake27
01-10-2005, 08:50 AM
i forgot when i heard but there was a stat that there were more crimes in the wrigley area than around the cell. when i tell all my cubbie friends this thye have no reply :rolleyes: also how much easier it is to get in and out of the cell if you drove than the horrible mess around wrigley...

chisox hardcore
01-10-2005, 08:54 AM
The guy is a Cub fan, okay? He even has a Lovable Loser beer logo next to his messages. The people posting in his thread have no clue. Some of them even admit they have no clue. Why bother?

I really wouldn't waste my time. You'll get as much satisfaction talking to the wall.

completely agreed.


i guess i'll agree from an urban planning and architectural ambiance perspective that wrigleyville seems nicer. but last i checked i'm a fan of the baseball not the architecture. the white sox didnt make the dan ryan or cause socio-economic blight on the southside.

nasox
01-10-2005, 09:31 AM
good luck if you haven't started yet. one guy fought back (tom in chicago)

ChiWhiteSox1337
01-10-2005, 05:05 PM
Reading that thread has made me lose hope for the future of the world. I'm glad we have WSI to get away from Cub fans.

darklord23
01-10-2005, 05:08 PM
Reading that thread has made me lose hope for the future of the world. I'm glad we have WSI to get away from Cub fans.
i here you

hsnterprize
01-11-2005, 08:16 AM
First of all...hi everyone. This is my first post on this site, and the skyscraper stuff on this site is pretty neat. Keep up the good work. Secondly...I admit I couldn't help but notice the comparisons between Wrigley Field and U.S. Cellular Field and have something to include in this old thread. But before I add my pre-taxed 2 cents to this discussion, let me tell y'all a little about me.

First, I'm a native Chicagoan and a news/sports reporter to a local radio station. So when I write about why I'm dissenting from some of Steely Dan's commentary, I'm doing it as a professional. For those of you who aren't familiar with the local rivalry here, there is a rivalry between us White Sox and Cubs fans...there is no such thing as "rooting for both teams" here in this town. That's already been mentioned. Secondly, I'm a Chicago White Sox fan, and I can tell all of you there are a TON is misconceptions about the Sox, their ballpark, and "beautiful Wrigley Field" that I feel need to be addressed. This may be a lengthy post, so get comfortable...I intend on educating some folks.

A couple of the biggest things Cubs fans brag about when it comes to their stadium is the neighborhood around it and attendance at their games. There is truth to the festivity around Wrigley Field, as there are a lot of bars and "hangout spots" near 1060 West Addison Street. However, it wasn't always that way. I'm 32 years old, and I can remember seeing plenty of Cubs games in TV when the "party atmosphere" the place is so well known for just wasn't there. There were times when the upper deck at Wrigley was closed to the public because the people just weren't coming. There was a time when the neighborhood around Wrigley was nothing close to being the "trendy" and "hip" area it's become in recent years. It wasn't until the late Harry Caray (a former White Sox announcer who was picked up by the the Cubs' owners, the Tribune Company, after he was "low-balled" by the Sox' chairman, Jerry Reinsdorf) came to the Cubs and helped make a party atmosphere at Wrigley that the place turned from inevitible condominium property to the "World's Largest Beer Garden". In fact, I remember many games in which there would be a large crowd at a Cub game, and most of the people would leave after Harry sang "Take Me Out To The Ball Game" since the Cubs were so bad, the team wasn't worth watching. Since then, even when the Cubs were worse than the Bad News Bears, large crowds would go to Wrigley Field...not necessarily to watch the Cubs (even though there are legitimate, die-hard Cubs fans who want the Cubs to win), but to take in the party atmosphere. And now with the team looking like somewhat of a winner, more people are wanting to be part of the party.

As far as U.S. Cellular Field is concerned, I'll answer a couple of quick questions about the name. Before the 2003 season, the White Sox reached a deal with Chicago-based cellular phone provider U.S. Cellular...a 23-year deal worth $68 million. U.S. Cellular would gain the naming rights to then-Comiskey Park, and the Sox would use the money to pay for a series of renovations to their much-maligned ballpark. Sox fans still refer to U.S. Cellular Field as "Comiskey Park" or "Sox Park", as there wasn't much outrage over the name change. There are many of us who also refer to the ballpark as "The Cell"...a catchy, short name for U.S. Cellular Field. But regardles of the name of the place, there's one stark difference between the Sox fans and Cubs fans (for the most part...I'm speaking in "general speak" right now), and that difference is many Cubs fans often go to Wrigley Field for the ballpark and surrounding neighborhood, while many Sox fans to to the Cell to see the team play. And while the crowds are larger at Wrigley for the most part, it's been documented in several sports-related publications that White Sox fans are generally more knowledgable about what's going on at field level than our north-side rivals.

As far as where the ballpark is in relation to its immediate surroundings, there are SEVERAL details that were left out of Steely Dan's initial assessment of the place. First of all, the people living in the Chicago neighborhood of Bridgeport to the immediate west of the ballpark have said over and over again they do NOT want a "south side version of Wrigleyville (the name of the area surrounding Wrigley Field)", meaning they don't want a yuppie, trendy area with a lot of drunks who'll urinate on people's lawns. They also don't want a bunch of people hanging out in their neck of the woods after games like what happens around Wrigley, and that's why the place is "dead" about an hour after the game. However, Bridgeport and Armour Square to the immediate north are good neighborhoods with bars, restaurants, and other hangout spots...they're just not a drunk, stumbling man's fall from the right-field seats. Not to mention, while the parking lots don't look good in the picture around the Cell, many Cubs fans have said they wish they had the parking near Wrigley we Sox fans have around our place. There have been attempts to build bars and such around the Cell in years past, but nothing's come through. Cubs fan's fascination with having places to go before and after games is something that does have some merit, but a "good ballpark" is NOT determined by whether or not there are places near the place to eat, drink, and socialize. AND...the neighborhood to the east of the Dan Ryan Expressway at one point was filled with public housing skyscrapers. That's no longer the case. The hi-rises have been torn down, and more desirable-looking housing is being built in that area.

U.S. Cellular Field has had it share of fair and unfair criticisms over the years. We Sox fans know that the Chairman of the team, Jerry Reinsdorf, was presented with a ballpark that looks like Baltimore's Oriole Park at Camden Yards, but he rejected it because he wanted his design...the initial new Comiskey Park design that was criticized shortly after the ballpark opened up in 1991. That criticism, along with the flurry of "Oriole Park wanna-be's" built after, and the stronger appreciation of older baseball stadiums like Wrigley Field, Fenway Park, and Yankee Stadium have made places like Wrigley catapault from inevitible tear-downs to "shrines". The poor design of new Comiskey Park, with its bland look, steeper-than-heck upper deck, and 2 levels of luxury boxes stuffed between the seating levels with a club level in the middle, gave the new south side ballpark more bad than good reviews. Add more criticism with Oriole Park's addition the next year, along with constant ridicule from the local, national, and internation media, and you'll understand why the casual fan would rather hang out at Wrigley than U.S. Cellular.

Personally, while I respect the history and tradition of Wrigley...it is 90 years old...I and a LOT of other Sox AND Cubs fans think Wrigley Field is a DUMP...plain and simple. The concourses are cramped, dark, and filled with the foul odor of stale beer and urine. The bathrooms are lethargic, with men peeing in horse-like troughs instead of modern urinals. The food isn't all that good, and the seating is pretty cramped despite it's "intamacy appeal." Not to mention, there have been reports in recent months about pieces of concrete falling from the undersides of the upper deck, and nearly hitting fans. Now the Cubs will have netting under the UD to keep any falling debris from falling on the heads of Cubs fans. Many Cubs fans I've interviewed have told me they wouldn't mind a new place, and Cubs fans who would go to U.S. Cellular Field to see Cubs vs. Sox games have even said they like the place, and appreciate the modern amenities like wide concourses, clean bathrooms, and one of best food selections in all of Major League Baseball. And even though it's been 14 years since it's initial opening, U.S. Cellular Field is becoming more fan friendly. Of course, if it could be done over again, the Cell would've been designed and built differently. Until a new ballpark is built, we'll take the Cell...especially with NO FALLING CONCRETE.

Takatsu10 posted some links to pictures of the south side ballpark in an earlier post. I suggest you look at them if you still think the home of the White Sox either can't draw fans or is a bad ballpark. We Sox fans know that despite our north side neighbors, WINNING BASEBALL is the draw, and not a row of bars and such outside of the stadium. And I'm not saying having places near the ballpark is bad, but the Cubs/Tribune Company's marketing had focused more on the OUTSIDE of the ballpark and the ballpark itself over the years because the team that plays on the field has been pathetic sans the past couple of years. I also suggest y'all check out White Sox Interactive and read for yourselves how we Sox fans feel about our place.

Sorry for the long ramble, but I can put all of that stuff in one simple point...Wrigley Field isn't as great as it's cracked up to be, and U.S. Cellular Field isn't as bad as people make it out to be. Several people have been pleasantly surprized at how good out ballpark is ddespite all the negative press. Granted, it could've been built better and put in a different location. However, with what we've got, I suggest to anyone who's interested to make the trek to 333 West 35th Street. You might like what you see...not to mention, hear, taste, smell, and experience. White Sox Baseball...it's a lot better than Cubs fans want you to believe.

You think I made a good point? I was trying to write to both Chicagoans and non-Chicagoans fascinated with the "Cubbie Myths".

Over By There
01-11-2005, 08:42 AM
Well done, hsn. Well thought out and put together. Here's hoping you get through to some people.

SOXintheBURGH
01-11-2005, 11:48 AM
Nice job man. Any intelligent responses?

A.T. Money
01-11-2005, 11:51 AM
That's Steely guy was ok in his first post. But later you saw his obnoxious Flubbyness come out the more he posted. What an ass.

SOXintheBURGH
01-11-2005, 11:57 AM
That's Steely guy was ok in his first post. But later you saw his obnoxious Flubbyness come out the more he posted. What an ass.
Yeah I noticed that. Did you catch that Sox fan too? Every post he had on that thread was "Screw the Cubs and their yuppie fans, etc." Hangar?

A.T. Money
01-11-2005, 12:10 PM
Nah, if it was hangar, it would have been:


Screw the Cubs and THEIR Yuppie FANS! The White SOX kick ASS
In Every WHICH way POSSIBLE....so THAT is why WE, SOX fans, must
pull together in THIS very hostile TIME, So That WE, can put
togETHER some KIND of coalition to DESTROY all Flubs FANS!

SOXintheBURGH
01-11-2005, 12:12 PM
Nah, if it was hangar, it would have been:


Screw the Cubs and THEIR Yuppie FANS! The White SOX kick ASS
In Every WHICH way POSSIBLE....so THAT is why WE, SOX fans, must
pull together in THIS very hostile TIME, So That WE, can put
togETHER some KIND of coalition to DESTROY all Flubs FANS!
:rolling:

Chisox003
01-11-2005, 12:25 PM
That thread is your typical, everyday Cubs "fans" talking about things totally unrelated to baseball....Steely Dan was clearly a cub fan, and the part where he says "you dont go to wrigley to eat food you go to get drunk...its one of the worlds largest outside bars" or something along those lines, proves that cubs fans and that entire empire theyve built isnt about baseball at all....Its about exactly what steely dan said, the parties, the bars, the drinking, the cellphones and maybe a little time for their team.....

Dont get me wrong, going to games is supposed to be a good time, so obviously there is no problem with drinking....But a problem develops when cubs fans like these guys start to believe what they are saying is right, and the game turns into a party, or riot......

I dont even bother reading or listening to what cub "fans" have to say anymore....Ive grown up on the southside, been a sox fan my entire life, and more than that learned that cubs baseball and its "fans" are 100%useless....Curses, bartman balls, sammy, harry carey, the atmosphere in the stadium....It all adds up to the same thing, so why bother even worrying about it? Theyll all rot in hell along with the garbage theyve brought to their franchise, and thats fine with me...

the_valenstache
01-11-2005, 01:27 PM
Nah, if it was hangar, it would have been:


Screw the Cubs and THEIR Yuppie FANS! The White SOX kick ASS
In Every WHICH way POSSIBLE....so THAT is why WE, SOX fans, must
pull together in THIS very hostile TIME, So That WE, can put
togETHER some KIND of coalition to DESTROY all Flubs FANS!

:roflmao: Classic.

C-Dawg
01-11-2005, 05:52 PM
Its interesting how they keep stressing how the Cell is surrounded by acres of parking pots, which just reinforces the fan's tendancy to "drive in & drive out" when the game is over. I suppose they all would like some utopian society where there are no cars, and everyone walks, rides bikes or public transportation, and lives, works, shops, and is entertained all in the same neighborhood. Well, as spread-out as the Chicago area is, we have to do what we have to to get to the ballpark of our choice. The big parking lots at the Cell are a huge advantage, especially to the fan who is unable to take public transportation, or hasn't yet discovered a convenient way to do so. Sure, almost everyone could take the CTA if they REALLY had to, but having the choice to drive or not is one strong point which Wrigley doesn't really have. By the way, I haven't driven to the Cell in about 5 years; once I discovered the Blue-to-Red transfer at Jackson I've been doing the CTA thing ever since. And the trains are PACKED.

Someone on there really ought to point out that both ball parks are located on the same CTA line - yes EXACTLY the same Red line!

Whitesox029
01-11-2005, 07:55 PM
Steely Dan made his ignorance evident to me very early on: (see my numbered notes)


wrigley is old school, it's a hot dog and beer ball park, they're not gonna have fish tacos or sushi or whatever the [expletive deleted] else they're serving at today's shopping mall stadiums. i like the fact that wrigley keeps it real in the food department, it just adds to the overall authenticity of the place. (1) you don't go to wrigley to eat good food, you go there to get drunk. it's one of the world's largest outdoor bars.


my typical wrigley food outing:
1 bag of peanuts
2 hot dogs
9 old styles

that list right there my friend is what i like to call perfection, you just can't beat that line-up. (2) what else could you possibly want at the ball game?
(3) if you don't like beer, dogs and peanuts, then you're obviously a [I wasn't sure about this one but thought I'd better not let it go] and you don't even deserve to watch a baseball game.
(4) as for the bathrooms, i kinda like the troughs. again, it's old school through and through, that's what makes wrigley so great, because there's no other ball park quite like it. the place is ancient. 1 This man is a Cub fan.
2 A winning team to watch
3 What if you're a recovering alcoholic vegetarian with a peanut allergy?
4 Yes, I agree. The epitome of charm in a ballpark is peeing into a trough.

hsnterprize
01-12-2005, 07:17 AM
When you get a chance, click on the link I posted in my first post in this thread, and read what the Cub fans said to me in reponse to what I wrote. They didn't seem to be vindictive, but their Cubbie colors were so obvious, Stevie Wonder could see them.

samram
01-12-2005, 07:47 AM
I haven't looked at a lot of overhead stadium aerials, but just from seeing blimp shots on TV, aren't most stadia surrounded by parking lots?