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danjames
01-09-2005, 02:02 PM
I need to ask a little favor of the board. I am writing an english paper on MLB Stadium deals (with specific focus on the Nats ballpark fiasco) but I also am looking to heavily reference past examples of how stadiums were funded, and I wanted to use New Comiskey Park to do so, because of the famed last second legislation that saved the team. My question is, does anyone know of any archived newspaper or news articles from that time period that I could use as sources?

Any help is appreciated. Thanks again.

Daver
01-09-2005, 02:04 PM
Do a search of these forums with that criteria, you will find all the info you need.

danjames
01-09-2005, 02:39 PM
as much as I love WSI, doing a search on the forums for 'sox stadium deal' or 'white sox comiskey deal' didn't turn up much info on the last minute legislation.

Brian26
01-09-2005, 02:45 PM
as much as I love WSI, doing a search on the forums for 'sox stadium deal' or 'white sox comiskey deal' didn't turn up much info on the last minute legislation.
Do you want us to write the paper for you too?

In all seriousness, do your homework, kid. If you can't find anything on WSI or if the WSI search engine isn't showing any love, just do a Google search.

Also, I'd suggest finding a copy of Richard Lindberg's "Stealing First in a Two Team Town." It sits on my bookshelf. It probably has the most comprehensive history I've ever read of what went down from '87 to '89 in bringing the New Comiskey deal to fruition.

Whitesoxtom
01-09-2005, 02:46 PM
The Chicago Tribune has a pretty good archive, But I believe you have to pay a fee.
Also, are you in college? You should have access to EBSCO and several other very good archives. If not, try the local library.

batmanZoSo
01-09-2005, 02:49 PM
as much as I love WSI, doing a search on the forums for 'sox stadium deal' or 'white sox comiskey deal' didn't turn up much info on the last minute legislation.
Although I'm sure some people could give you good information from these boards, I don't think I'd ever use it as a source in an essay. Message boards aren't exactly a beacon of truth. We talk..we speculate.

Google and library, my friend.

Brian26
01-09-2005, 02:54 PM
Although I'm sure some people could give you good information from these boards, I don't think I'd ever use it as a source in an essay.
Haha. I wonder if anyone has ever used WSI in their bibliography.

batmanZoSo
01-09-2005, 03:04 PM
Haha. I wonder if anyone has ever used WSI in their bibliography.
LOL I know.

"Johnny, can I have a word with you? What's this WSI thing in your bibliography."

"It's an internet fan board."

"Not the most academic of all sources, you know."

"Yeah but the guy I quoted, Kill_Jerry435670, is a college professor!"

danjames
01-09-2005, 03:43 PM
I wasn't planning on quoting individual board members for information. Obviously that would've been a bad idea.

The reason I asked the board is because it is a collection of very passionate sox fans that I reasoned may know excellent web sources that have detailed the White Sox New Comiskey Park stadium deal. Not because I wanted to quote a board member.

And no, I wasn't trying to get the board to write the paper for me. I am googling for information and using the library as well. I was trying to use the board as another place to sponge information. If someone knew a link to an academic study on ballpark legislation, for example, that I didn't know about or hadn't found, for instance, that would have been ideal.

Not to pick nits, but searching google only gets you so far. I figured i'd reach out to the community to see if anyone had written about this before themselves, and thus knew the best places to look.

Thanks though.

Edit: Thanks for the book info. I'll have to try and track that one down.

ewokpelts
01-09-2005, 03:48 PM
Do you want us to write the paper for you too?

In all seriousness, do your homework, kid. If you can't find anything on WSI or if the WSI search engine isn't showing any love, just do a Google search.

Also, I'd suggest finding a copy of Richard Lindberg's "Stealing First in a Two Team Town." It sits on my bookshelf. It probably has the most comprehensive history I've ever read of what went down from '87 to '89 in bringing the New Comiskey deal to fruition.there's also a book that goes into details about the united center and the cell....it's at the historical society.....all about the financial cost vs impact of a stadium...
Gene

Daver
01-09-2005, 03:52 PM
as much as I love WSI, doing a search on the forums for 'sox stadium deal' or 'white sox comiskey deal' didn't turn up much info on the last minute legislation.
Use the advance search feature to refine your search, this has been discussed at length here, with links to many sources.

Mingo
01-09-2005, 04:13 PM
Here's a couple of links for you:



http://hellskitchen.net/develop/FWS/Conventioncenters/TheStadiumFinancingRipoff.html

http://traveltax.msu.edu/news/Stories/chicagosuntimes3.htm

danjames
01-09-2005, 04:23 PM
Thanks Mingo, those look terrific.

I appreciate the help everyone has given.

Well, except for the kid comment. I sort of resent that. :cool:

ewokpelts
01-09-2005, 05:16 PM
Thanks Mingo, those look terrific.

I appreciate the help everyone has given.

Well, except for the kid comment. I sort of resent that. :cool::reinsy
Watch your mouth Kid.....

Lip Man 1
01-09-2005, 06:46 PM
On Comiskey Park old and new, with memories of Tampa Bay:

"Comiskey Park is not getting ready to fall down, but I would be very surprised if Comiskey Park, as we know it today, will exist in 25 years. We'll either need a new park or a Yankee Stadium-style renovation." –Jerry Reinsdorf to the Boston Globe’s Bob Ryan. August 5, 1985.

"We've done what we can, but we can't do it forever. This place is a dinosaur. We can't afford old ballparks. We can't afford cheap bleacher seats. We can't afford double-headers. You need artificial turf so you can get games in. In between the white lines, baseball hasn't changed very much. The big change is outside the lines, and people must understand and this place has no role in the game as it is today. We've done all kinds of things to hang on, but there are no mirrors left."– Eddie Einhorn to the Boston Globe’s Bob Ryan. August 5, 1985.

"What’s that they say about it getting darkest just before dawn? When you think how close we came to leaving...the thing is, if you somehow waived a magic wand and made this stadium structurally sound, it still wouldn’t be financially sound. We couldn’t have competed. Now, we can compete." – Jerry Reinsdorf to The Sporting News’ Bob Verdi. September, 1990.

"There was so much deterioration (to the original Comiskey Park) the engineers told us the upped deck probably would have collapsed within a year or two."– Jerry Reinsdorf, quoted in the White Sox game program of September 30, 1990.

"In 1988, Frank Morsani had tried to prevent Jerry Reinsdorf from getting American League approval for moving the White Sox to Tampa. He contacted several team owners, including the owner of the Baltimore Orioles, Edward Bennett Williams -- who in 1960 mounted a legal challenge to Calvin Griffith's relocation of the Washington Senators to Minnesota. Reinsdorf heard about it and became royally pissed off.

Morsani tried to block our move to St. Petersburg, Reinsdorf says. He fought us in the [Florida] legislature. And he went to see Edward Bennett Williams, who at the time owned the Orioles, and asked him to vote against the White Sox move to St. Petersburg. If baseball came to St. Petersburg, [Morsani] wanted to be involved. He had invested several million dollars trying to get an expansion team and if we came in, his money was going down the drain. But him going to see Williams was like someone who is not a member of a country club going to a member of the country club and asking him to vote against the admission of a third person. Ed Williams and I were members of the same country club and Morsani was not. I didn't think that was right.

Later in the same year, when Morsani attempted to buy the Texas Rangers, it was widely believed Reinsdorf was the man who stood in his way. Reinsdorf opposed the sale of the Rangers to Morsani; he also objected to broadcaster Ed Gaylord as owner. For blocking Morsani and Gaylord, the American League told Reinsdorf to find a qualified buyer for the Texas franchise. This made Reinsdorf even madder at Morsani, because he believed the price agreed upon by Morsani and Rangers owner Eddie Chiles was too high, making it tough to find an owner. However, Reinsdorf is generally credited with creating the George W. Bush ownership group.

Reinsdorf never forgot or forgave Morsani's actions, giving the Tampa car dealer a powerful and vocal opponent among baseball owners. Of Reinsdorf, Morsani says, I am not crazy about a lot of things that he did. In the spring of 1990, Allen Keesler took Morsani to the White Sox spring training camp in Sarasota to try and patch things up between his friends. The trio sat in Reinsdorf's box, ate lunch and talked. Allen was trying to patch things up between Morsani and me, Reinsdorf says. I was very angry because I felt, number one, he should be more civic-minded. Reinsdorf believed that despite Morsani's personal investment, he should have supported any baseball team that came to Tampa Bay, whether he owned it or not." From the internet story, ‘Stadium For Rent : Tampa Bay’s Quest For Major League Baseball’ by Bob Andelman. Chapter 10. Published 1993.

"The lease Reinsdorf got from the Illinois Sports Authority deserved immediate induction into the Sweetheart-Deal Hall Of Fame. The White Sox would get the new Comiskey Park rent free up to 1.2 million in attendance each year. Above that, the Illinois Sports Authority got $2.50 a ticket. The White Sox would also give the authority 35 percent of its broadcast and advertising revenues over $10 million. But the White Sox got back $5 million a year for upkeep, repairs and insurance. After the first ten years of the twenty-year lease, the authority would buy 300,000 tickets if attendance fell below 1.5 million."– From the book ‘The Lords of The Realm’ by John Helyar. Pg. 483. Published 1994.

"Jerry Reinsdorf read and heard the barbs, and they bothered him not a bit. He’d been rich and he’d been poor and rich was better. In new Comiskey Park’s first season, he cleared a $22 million operating profit. After years of struggling to break even, he had baseball’s second most profitable team in 1991." – From the book ‘ The Lords Of The Realm’ by John Helyar. Pg. 484. Published 1994.

"In Chicago, the White Sox had the good manners not to say that six-year-old Comiskey Park was nothing more then a gaudier Three Rivers Stadium, but owner Jerry Reinsdorf had begun to "Seligize"- to publicly and loudly ruminate about the park’s future."– From the book ‘The Big Show, Inside ESPN’s SportsCenter’ by Keith Olbermann. Pg. 192.Published 1997.

"We don't have any definitive plans. We built a modern stadium with wide aisles and no obstructed seats, and I think it's a beautiful ballpark. The first year it was acclaimed, and then Camden Yards and Jacobs Field were built, and people came to like the retro look. But those ballparks have a lot of deficiencies, like obstructed seats. But we're sort of in the retail business, and we have to give our customers what they want whenever possible, so we're examining the possibilities." – Jerry Reinsdorf to the Chicago Sun - Times’ Terry Savage. July 30, 2000.

"I think if we do a renovation in this ballpark it would be with private money, some of which might come from selling naming rights." – Jerry Reinsdorf to the Chicago Sun - Times’ Terry Savage. July 30, 2000.

"When the new stadium was announced I know some his (Jerry Reinsdorf’s) limited partners started grumbling because they felt that after a few years, the novelty of a new stadium would wear off and they’d be right back with the same attendance troubles. They were disappointed with the location of the new stadium."– Rich Lindberg, Sox historian and author of four Sox books, to WSI’s Mark Liptak. From his interview, April 14, 2002.
Lip

Brian26
01-09-2005, 07:13 PM
Interesting stuff, Lip. Thanks!

minastirith67
01-09-2005, 07:22 PM
God bless Jerry Reinsdorf...obviously he loves hsi money more than 'his' team.

:angry:

danjames
01-09-2005, 07:43 PM
Lip,
one of your quotes is from "The Big Show," so I'm assuming you own it, or have at least read it.

Not to turn this into the WSI Book Club or anything, but would you reccomend it? I was eyeing it a few months back, but decided i wanted to make sure it was actually worth reading before I picked it up.

FedEx227
01-09-2005, 09:09 PM
Also, I'd suggest finding a copy of Richard Lindberg's "Stealing First in a Two Team Town." It sits on my bookshelf. It probably has the most comprehensive history I've ever read of what went down from '87 to '89 in bringing the New Comiskey deal to fruition.
Thats a great book, when I did my paper on the 1994 Baseball Strike I got a lot of solid information on the owners greediness in there.

Lip Man 1
01-09-2005, 09:45 PM
As someone who was in TV for 15 years I loved The Big Show because I could relate to (on a smaller scale) exactly with Keith and Dan were talking about. It is also very funny.


Lip