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Chicago83
01-09-2005, 03:38 AM
There were a lot of sox fans out for KW's head at the end of last season and beginning of off-season especially as we lost Maggs. Now I don't see so much badmouthing of KW on these boards. Has Kenny quited the dissenters and produced an adequate offseason? We lost Lee and Magglio, but we finally have five starters and a more consistent offense, what's the verdict?

eastchicagosoxfan
01-09-2005, 07:04 AM
He added AJ, El Duque, Hermanson, Dye and Pods. That's pretty good. He's improved the defense by moving Valentin, and adding Pods, as well as Dye. With Jackson gone, the bullpen is better. AJ is a desperately needed left-handed bat. A year or two from now, we may view last season as a rebuilding year. Unlike the Flubs, the Sox don't rebuild by losing 100 games every couple of seasons.

Fredsox
01-09-2005, 07:16 AM
I think it's pretty clear that he has a definitive plan for what he wants the team to look like, and he's executing against that plan. Sox fans see nice little incremental changes in the direction of a "go-go Sox" mold and they like it. They like both the direction the team is headed in as well as the changes themselves.

If you're a Cub fan the only significant thing you have to look at is the Nomar signing, and that's not really a change in any direction, is it? They're apparently out of the Beltran derby, Ordonez is talking to the Astros (wouldn't that be sweet?), they haven't dumped Steroid-boy yet, and they still don't have a closer. Other than that they're doing fine.

Yeah, I think KW will have a much more easy time at Sox Fest than last year. Especially if he strengthens up second base. Then he'll really get them lathered up.

Palehose13
01-09-2005, 09:32 AM
He added AJ, El Duque, Hermanson, Dye and Pods. That's pretty good. He's improved the defense by moving Valentin, and adding Pods, as well as Dye. With Jackson gone, the bullpen is better. AJ is a desperately needed left-handed bat. A year or two from now, we may view last season as a rebuilding year. Unlike the Flubs, the Sox don't rebuild by losing 100 games every couple of seasons.
Don't forget Vizcaino!

I think he has quieted some people, but not all of them...and I think those people would still be bitching after a WS title.

Constant complainer: "They won in GAME 7. The should have swept them! Thi championship is practically meaningless!"

gosox41
01-09-2005, 09:56 AM
There were a lot of sox fans out for KW's head at the end of last season and beginning of off-season especially as we lost Maggs. Now I don't see so much badmouthing of KW on these boards. Has Kenny quited the dissenters and produced an adequate offseason? We lost Lee and Magglio, but we finally have five starters and a more consistent offense, what's the verdict?
It too the guy 4 years to figure out the holes on this team and finally work to try to solve them. He's hada very good off season, turning over about 25% of the roster while filling key holes.

He's quieted me down...for now. Now this team has to get it done on the field. If KW wants to quiet the dissenters for good, doing some damage in the playoffs would be a big help.


Bob

DaveIsHere
01-09-2005, 10:20 AM
I am just glad that he really made over the team this year electing not to go in the same direction as the past 4 years that we all know didnt work. We have had a decent team since he has been here, but I think the 2000 season delayed some changes as they had some success. I am really excited about the season, maybe he made all the changes since everyone ripped him last year st SoxFest

DumpJerry
01-09-2005, 10:28 AM
Quiet the dissenters on this site? That'll be the day. There is no quieting Sox fans. Even if we go 162-0, sweep all post season games to a WS title, there will be people who will find fault.

There's just no pleasing some people. There is a phrase that describes baseball fans who take management decisions without complaint......Cub fans.:smile:

voodoochile
01-09-2005, 10:32 AM
It too the guy 4 years to figure out the holes on this team and finally work to try to solve them. He's hada very good off season, turning over about 25% of the roster while filling key holes.

He's quieted me down...for now. Now this team has to get it done on the field. If KW wants to quiet the dissenters for good, doing some damage in the playoffs would be a big help.


Bob
:o:

zach074
01-09-2005, 10:35 AM
I dont think Kenny could ever even try to please all of us. We will always have complainers. I am very happy about what KW has done for this team.:gulp:

BigEdWalsh
01-09-2005, 10:45 AM
I think working within the budget allowed him, he's done an outstanding job. But, some are probably sure to keep complaining.:?:

CubKilla
01-09-2005, 12:16 PM
KW seems to be growing into his position as GM. While not particularly a fan of KW, I've always stated that the one thing I cannot fault him for is his honesty. He said when he hired OG that he would tool a team around OG's management style. He has done that BIG TIME this offseason to appease Sox fans and kept the $$$ figure close to the same as last season after unloading the salaries of C Lee and Maggs. Kudos to KW for a fine offseason.

That still doesn't forgive the fact that, early on in his GM career, some/most of his general managerial decisions were absolutely ATROCIOUS IMHO and he will probably occasionally throw in a real stinker. But that's what you get w/KW.

voodoochile
01-09-2005, 01:45 PM
Okay, if you voted for the fifth choice, I just want to say, "you suck" :D:

Seriously though. Are those flubbie fans voting? I am definitely confused. I don't think the Sox are the Yankees, but I remain choice 2...

gobears1987
01-09-2005, 01:46 PM
I wasn't a KW dissenter in most cases, but I must say I'm excited about the upcoming season.
:bandance::supernana::bandance::supernana:

ewokpelts
01-09-2005, 01:48 PM
Okay, if you voted for the fifth choice, I just want to say, "you suck" :D:

Seriously though. Are those flubbie fans voting? I am definitely confused. I don't think the Sox are the Yankees, but I remain choice 2...Belive it or not...I havent voted yet...so dont look at me
Gene

voodoochile
01-09-2005, 01:49 PM
Belive it or not...I havent voted yet...so dont look at me
Gene
SO soon there will be 3 people who suck...:D:

ewokpelts
01-09-2005, 02:04 PM
SO soon there will be 3 people who suck...:D:cute....btw, i voted 3

JKryl
01-09-2005, 02:55 PM
After 3 years of half a**ed off seasons, Kenny applied himself this year and did as good a job as he could under the constraints he's held under.

doublem23
01-09-2005, 03:01 PM
After 3 years of half a**ed off seasons, Kenny applied himself this year and did as good a job as he could under the constraints he's held under.
For the record, "ass" isn't blocked at our boards. Though, please don't try and circumvent the language filter. It is a violation of our board's policies.

gobears1987
01-09-2005, 03:01 PM
I think it's pretty clear that he has a definitive plan for what he wants the team to look like, and he's executing against that plan. Sox fans see nice little incremental changes in the direction of a "go-go Sox" mold and they like it. They like both the direction the team is headed in as well as the changes themselves.


I'm a KW fan, but it isn't his plan or vision for the team. Ozzie probably tells KW and JR what team he wants and JR gives KW the budget to do it. KW did it. We now have the team that can play the small ball Ozzie wants. We now have a quicker, faster team that won't give us the dreaded corpseball of last year.

We have a deep bullpen and 5 starters

doublem23
01-09-2005, 03:02 PM
I'm a KW fan, but it isn't his plan or vision for the team. Ozzie probably tells KW and JR what team he wants and JR gives KW the budget to do it. KW did it. We now have the team that can play the small ball Ozzie wants. We now have a quicker, faster team that won't give us the dreaded corpseball of last year.

We have a deep bullpen and 5 starters Kenny hired Ozzie to manage a small-ball team. This is Kenny's plan.

On paper, I think Kenny has done a fantastic job assembling a team with the budget he's had to work with and that's about all you can do as GM. Whether or not they perform on the field is on the shoulders of the field staff and players themselves.

Good off-season, KW! :thumbsup:

Just get us, at worst, a utility infielder.

PicktoCLick72
01-09-2005, 03:20 PM
Even if we don't get another infielder, this offseason will have been a huge success and helped us more than any other in recent memory.

gobears1987
01-09-2005, 03:22 PM
In all honesty, if KW said we would lose Maggs and CLee in an off-season, would any of us think that it would end up the best in decades?

mdep524
01-09-2005, 03:22 PM
KW has worked hard and done a pretty good job so far. If he can go out and get one of: Iguchi, Polanco, Ray Durham or Luis Castillo--all available in one form or another-- it will be an excellent offseason. The starting pitching would still be a little thin, but we'd be serious contenders.

chisoxmike
01-09-2005, 03:31 PM
The only thing is...is that a lot of things have to go right for all this to work.

- Pods has to be better than his 04 season
- El Duque can't be injured all season
- Thomas has to be back at some point in the season, and return to form
- Everett has to be a solid replacement for Thomas
- Dye has to stay off the DL, true, his injuries were freak ones.

I'm all for the moves KW did this offseason, and I like them. But, they all have baggage that comes with them. If everything goes right, our Sox are going to be a force!

gobears1987
01-09-2005, 03:47 PM
The only thing is...is that a lot of things have to go right for all this to work.

- Pods has to be better than his 04 season
- El Duque can't be injured all season
- Thomas has to be back at some point in the season, and return to form
- Everett has to be a solid replacement for Thomas
- Dye has to stay off the DL, true, his injuries were freak ones.

I'm all for the moves KW did this offseason, and I like them. But, they all have baggage that comes with them. If everything goes right, our Sox are going to be a force! And Freddy Garcia has to throw out his MP3 player

PaulDrake
01-09-2005, 04:27 PM
Okay, if you voted for the fifth choice, I just want to say, "you suck" :D:

Seriously though. Are those flubbie fans voting? I am definitely confused. I don't think the Sox are the Yankees, but I remain choice 2... Even though those aren't my sentiments I just couldn't resist and voted for the fifth choice. I've worked hard all my life and have earned the right to have an immature fit every now and then. :D:

johnny_mostil
01-09-2005, 04:28 PM
The only thing is...is that a lot of things have to go right for all this to work.

- Pods has to be better than his 04 season
- El Duque can't be injured all season
- Thomas has to be back at some point in the season, and return to form
- Everett has to be a solid replacement for Thomas
- Dye has to stay off the DL, true, his injuries were freak ones.

I'm all for the moves KW did this offseason, and I like them. But, they all have baggage that comes with them. If everything goes right, our Sox are going to be a force!
Honesty, would you be more comfortable if you were an Indians fan, and aware that eight of their nine regular position players had career-outperform seasons?

Nobody knows if Podsednik will be better, but if he's not, he won't play all season, the White Sox have too many options at corner OF.
El Duque did pass a physical. He's probably fine.
Nobody is saying Thomas won't be back, they are arguing over by when.
Everett was hurt last season, but nobody gives him credit for that.
Dye played in 130 or more games in five of the last six seasons.
It's not what you foresee that kills you usually, it's what you don't.

gobears1987
01-09-2005, 04:38 PM
It's not what you foresee that kills you usually, it's what you don't. Like losing Frank and Maggs to injury.

Daver
01-09-2005, 04:56 PM
Is this team better than last year's team?

Only time will tell. If your going to build a team to win with speed and small ball, you also have to get the other team out, and the Sox have not improved a very average defensive team, with the addition of AJ they may be worse than they were last season.

Mingo
01-09-2005, 05:03 PM
Is this team better than last year's team?

Only time will tell. If your going to build a team to win with speed and small ball, you also have to get the other team out, and the Sox have not improved a very average defensive team, with the addition of AJ they may be worse than they were last season.
I'd say the Sox have at least marginally improved the Defense. The outfield with Dye's arm and Pod's speed - figures to hold more runners and run a few balls down in the gap. IMO - Uribe is a defensive upgrade over Valentine at short.

The Whitesox will be better defensively, but only by an increment or two.

Daver
01-09-2005, 05:17 PM
I'd say the Sox have at least marginally improved the Defense. The outfield with Dye's arm and Pod's speed - figures to hold more runners and run a few balls down in the gap. IMO - Uribe is a defensive upgrade over Valentine at short.

The Whitesox will be better defensively, but only by an increment or two.
The Sox have one pitcher that can hold a runner on first, and a catcher that can't throw anyone out, Podniesik is as much of a hack as Carlos Lee in the OF, and Uribe is not an improvement over Valentin, especially with Willie at second.

We'll agree to disagree.

voodoochile
01-09-2005, 05:21 PM
The Sox have one pitcher that can hold a runner on first, and a catcher that can't throw anyone out, Podniesik is as much of a hack as Carlos Lee in the OF, and Uribe is not an improvement over Valentin, especially with Willie at second.

We'll agree to disagree.
Okay, so if you accept that the defense is worse, don't you also have to accept that the pitching is definitely better. That should wash with the lost defense at least and probably more.

Mingo
01-09-2005, 05:27 PM
The Sox have one pitcher that can hold a runner on first, and a catcher that can't throw anyone out, Podniesik is as much of a hack as Carlos Lee in the OF, and Uribe is not an improvement over Valentin, especially with Willie at second.

We'll agree to disagree.
That's fine with me. I'm still relearning to talk Sox baseball with knowledgeable people. I've been in Texas since 1977 and I'm just delighted to find such a knowlegeable and well regulated board.

My first impression here is that I have much more to learn, than I have knowledge to dispense.

I'll ask everyone in advance to pardon my ignorance.

joepoe
01-09-2005, 05:29 PM
When the Sox win a home playoff game for the first time since 1959, Kenny will be off my doofus list.

Daver
01-09-2005, 05:39 PM
Okay, so if you accept that the defense is worse, don't you also have to accept that the pitching is definitely better. That should wash with the lost defense at least and probably more.
Is the pitching better?

Aside from Mark and Freddie, you have three question marks in the rotation, two guys that were cast out of New York for their inability to get the job done, and Garland, who has yet to prove he can take it to the next level.

I will say the Bullpen is vastly improved, but is that enough?

HomeFish
01-09-2005, 05:43 PM
Kenny has performed admirably on a shoestring budget.

That is terribly insufficient, however. This team still has holes in pitching and offense.

gobears1987
01-09-2005, 05:49 PM
Kenny has performed admirably on a shoestring budget.

That is terribly insufficient, however. This team still has holes in pitching and offense. Mr. Negativity returns and I have a headache.

beckett21
01-09-2005, 05:53 PM
That's fine with me. I'm still relearning to talk Sox baseball with knowledgeable people. I've been in Texas since 1977 and I'm just delighted to find such a knowlegeable and well regulated board.

My first impression here is that I have much more to learn, than I have knowledge to dispense.

I'll ask everyone in advance to pardon my ignorance. There are many knowledgable baseball people here, of which I am not one of them. :redneck

Opinions are always welcome. You should have seen what was being said here about Aaron Rowand this time last year! :o:

Daver's is one opinion for which I have a lot of respect. I won't argue with him on the issue of defense, except that I think Podsednik is an upgrade over C Lee in the field.

However, personally I am very pleased with the starting rotation. Hernandez, Contreras and Garland may still be somewhat questionable, but compared to Garland, Schoeneweis and Wright/Grilli/Munoz/(add punchline here), there is no doubt in my mind that there has been a substantial upgrade to the pitching staff in the course of the past year.

I guess Hernandez is the only true addition to the rotation this offseason, but I agree with VC on this one. On the whole the pitching is decisively better. JMO.

Daver
01-09-2005, 06:00 PM
Thanx for reminding me Doc, the thought of AJ trying to catch Contreas and his forkball leaves me a bit squeamish.


But then again, what the hell do I know?

beckett21
01-09-2005, 06:06 PM
Thanx for reminding me Doc, the thought of AJ trying to catch Contreas and his forkball leaves me a bit squeamish.


But then again, what the hell do I know?
:(:

voodoochile
01-09-2005, 06:16 PM
Is the pitching better?

Aside from Mark and Freddie, you have three question marks in the rotation, two guys that were cast out of New York for their inability to get the job done, and Garland, who has yet to prove he can take it to the next level.

I will say the Bullpen is vastly improved, but is that enough?
On paper, it's the best staff they've had since 1994.

ewokpelts
01-09-2005, 06:17 PM
On paper, it's the best staff they've had since 1994.and we all know what happened that year.....:(:
Gene

delben91
01-09-2005, 06:18 PM
But then again, what the hell do I know?
Daver, out of curiosity, how much do you make each time someone uses your copyrighted closing line there? :D:

voodoochile
01-09-2005, 06:18 PM
and we all know what happened that year.....:(:
Gene
Yeah, but this time, MLB is at least a year from a lockout/strike.

ewokpelts
01-09-2005, 06:20 PM
Yeah, but this time, MLB is at least a year from a lockout/strike.:reinsy

Dont make me use my time machine Voodoo......and while I'm here...let me introduce you to my new accountant....

:dollarbill:

Where's my scotch?! World Series championships are too expensive!

Maximo
01-09-2005, 07:10 PM
Providing that the Sox avoid serious injuries, this team can be at least 5 wins better than last year's team just in intangibles alone.

Posednik going from first to third on a single and scoring on a sac.fly.
Bullpen being deep enough to pick up a starter who falters.
Someone occupying the 5th starter spot who actually gives them a chance to win a game.
AJ understanding how to deal with the Twins.

Taking into account that the Sox have lost some power, I still think the change in this roster is good for at least 5 more wins.

5 more wins keeps you in the hunt for the division and if three starters get hot in the playoffs, anything can happen.

Chisox003
01-09-2005, 07:20 PM
I think we are a utility man short of calling these a great offseason....Dont get me wrong, this was a very good winter, but going into ST with just Willie and Uribe up the middle raises too many questions, and allows for little flexibility....

All in all, I voted for a "good effort" just because we have yet to land that MIF....AJ, IMO is a an upgrade over Big Ben in every aspect of the game, even defensively (ERA with Davis last year=5.15, only threw 22% of runners out), so that does not bother me at all...Crede is solid at 3rd, Uribe is much better than Valentin, Willie (for now) is solid at 2nd, Konerko is, IMO, under rated in his defense....Our OF is very good, with Rowand tracking balls down ALL OVER the place, Pods is good, and Dye has a pretty good arm....

Offense has changed faces, but for the better (theres 433 other threads about the offense)

Good offseason KW

Daver
01-09-2005, 07:26 PM
I think we are a utility man short of calling these a great offseason....Dont get me wrong, this was a very good winter, but going into ST with just Willie and Uribe up the middle raises too many questions, and allows for little flexibility....

All in all, I voted for a "good effort" just because we have yet to land that MIF....AJ, IMO is a an upgrade over Big Ben in every aspect of the game, even defensively (ERA with Davis last year=5.15, only threw 22% of runners out), so that does not bother me at all
Another reason why all numbers lie.

Ben did not call pitches last year, Don Cooper did.

I'm not even going to bother with the rest of your assertion on why AJ is better defensively, based on the reasons you have given for his superioriety.

zach074
01-09-2005, 07:27 PM
Is the pitching better?

Aside from Mark and Freddie, you have three question marks in the rotation, two guys that were cast out of New York for their inability to get the job done, and Garland, who has yet to prove he can take it to the next level.

I will say the Bullpen is vastly improved, but is that enough?
They are way less of question marks than last season. Anyone want Wright back?:rolleyes:

Dadawg_77
01-10-2005, 12:24 AM
I didn't like the choices in the poll but took the middle option to give Kenny credit for picking up AJ and El Duque for what it cost him. El Duque will be a nice pickup and will end up as the Sox top pitcher if he stays healthy. AJ while not as good def behind the plate as Davis, more then makes up for that in his ability at the plate. Pods will be a disappointment to the Sox this year. I peg for a under .330 OBP and form the leadoff hitter will be hard to overcome. Hopefully (if my prediction rings true, since we all hope it won't) he becomes the team's fourth outfielder by ASG, or the Sox will struggle to score runs. Hemerson and Vizcaino could be great or complete bust. Bullpen pitchers production is very volatile from year to year so hard to predict what to expect. Look at Vizcaino's 2003 compared to 2004 for example. A lot of that is due to smaller samples so bad does mean a pitcher is that bad and good doesn't reflect a pitcher that good like Alfonseca isn't as good as his performance with the Braves last year. Overall I think Kenny has had one of his better off season's so far, but that isn't saying much.

ChiSox14305635
01-10-2005, 03:10 AM
KW added speed, bullpen arms & an additional lefty bat in the lineup at the expense of a single .300/30/100 hitter. While I'll miss that hitter, you gotta give KW some credit for revamping this squad on a small budget.

voodoochile
01-10-2005, 10:01 AM
I didn't like the choices in the poll but took the middle option to give Kenny credit for picking up AJ and El Duque for what it cost him. El Duque will be a nice pickup and will end up as the Sox top pitcher if he stays healthy. AJ while not as good def behind the plate as Davis, more then makes up for that in his ability at the plate. Pods will be a disappointment to the Sox this year. I peg for a under .330 OBP and form the leadoff hitter will be hard to overcome. Hopefully (if my prediction rings true, since we all hope it won't) he becomes the team's fourth outfielder by ASG, or the Sox will struggle to score runs. Hemerson and Vizcaino could be great or complete bust. Bullpen pitchers production is very volatile from year to year so hard to predict what to expect. Look at Vizcaino's 2003 compared to 2004 for example. A lot of that is due to smaller samples so bad does mean a pitcher is that bad and good doesn't reflect a pitcher that good like Alfonseca isn't as good as his performance with the Braves last year. Overall I think Kenny has had one of his better off season's so far, but that isn't saying much.
What option would you have liked to see?

If you prefer the terms

Excellent
Very Good
Average
Needs Improvement
Failed

Then feel free to think of them thusly... :dunno:

chisox hardcore
01-10-2005, 10:10 AM
cautiously optimistic says it best...

i love the way this team is shaping up.
KW did great with the carlos lee trade. and our pitching lineup is the best i've seen here in a long while.


still alot of x factors though. but i'm looking forward to opening day.

PaulDrake
01-10-2005, 10:15 AM
KW seems to be growing into his position as GM. While not particularly a fan of KW, I've always stated that the one thing I cannot fault him for is his honesty. He said when he hired OG that he would tool a team around OG's management style. He has done that BIG TIME this offseason to appease Sox fans and kept the $$$ figure close to the same as last season after unloading the salaries of C Lee and Maggs. Kudos to KW for a fine offseason.

That still doesn't forgive the fact that, early on in his GM career, some/most of his general managerial decisions were absolutely ATROCIOUS IMHO and he will probably occasionally throw in a real stinker. But that's what you get w/KW. Nothing original from me except to echo your sentiments. Very accurate assessment of KW IMHO.

Dadawg_77
01-10-2005, 12:11 PM
What option would you have liked to see?

If you prefer the terms

Excellent
Very Good
Average
Needs Improvement
Failed

Then feel free to think of them thusly... :dunno:
I did but with what you had listed, I would go with needs improvement. I think this has been an average offseason for a major league GM and Kenny's best offseason. So as to the thread's question, no it hasn't dulled my opinion of Kenny's ability as a GM.

Hangar18
01-10-2005, 03:03 PM
It too the guy 4 years to figure out the holes on this team and finally work to try to solve them. He's hada very good off season, turning over about 25% of the roster while filling key holes.

He's quieted me down...for now. Now this team has to get it done on the field. If KW wants to quiet the dissenters for good, doing some damage in the playoffs would be a big help.


Bob
I agree with the Beginning of this Post. It Took Kenny 4 years (thats FOUR wasted seasons everyone) to figure out we needed a Second Baseman
that Could hit For Average, with Speed and get on base. A Ray Durham
type (wait, didnt we have him?) and starting pitchers at the #4 and #5 holes. Congratulating him for filling our holes kind of feels like Patting him on the back for remembering to Eat Breakfast. When the SOX beat on the Yankees in early 2000, The Yanks didnt wait 4 years to Fill Holes in
their Lineup and Create More Holes along the way. They didnt "wait and see" if they were in contention before making moves. They didnt tell their fans to "show up" and they'd get better Players. They didnt even wait til the Offseason. They waited til the All-Star Break.

However, dont get me wrong, im glad the moves were finally made after 4 years, but still mad it came at the expense of our Offense and Minors.

maurice
01-10-2005, 03:20 PM
I voted with the majority. I'm generally a KW supporter but was plenty PO'ed at last offseason. I wish KW did this a year sooner. IMHO, he's done his best with a limited budget (and with BB's reported refusal to deal Hudson / Mulder to the Sox), and put together a pretty solid roster. If KW were as bad as some claim, I'd expect at least one sub-.500 finish in four seasons.

The win total will depend entirely on the health of Thomas and Hernandez. When those two are healthy, they're outstanding. Everybody else should be just fine.

This is one of the deepest Sox teams in recent memory with the exception of MIF. The other potential holes are backed up by players either on the roster or in the high minors who can be plugged in at problem positions or traded for upgrades.

Uribe=MVP
01-10-2005, 04:19 PM
I am happy with the additions that have been made. If we sign Iguchi (sp?) I change my vote to the best option.