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View Full Version : Crede hangin by a thread?


CHI_SOX_4_LIFE
01-08-2005, 08:03 PM
Crede has had high expectations but still continues to have a litttle bit of a struggle, which leaves some fans ready to get rid of him. His defense is awesome, but he has been lacking a lot at the plate and i have heard a lot of sox fans complain. Do you think if he has a year like 04 in 05 he will be gone in 06?

OG4LIFE
01-08-2005, 08:07 PM
probly. i think thats why we drafted josh fields in the first round.

CubsfansareDRUNK
01-08-2005, 08:07 PM
Alot of people on this site like crede alot. I for one..don't at all. his 2004 year was nothing to talk about. i guess he's an OK defender..but i see nothing in him. Hopefully he will get better this year but im not a "Crede Supporter"

eastchicagosoxfan
01-08-2005, 08:18 PM
He has to show marked improvement this year, otherwise the job will be someone else's to win.

batmanZoSo
01-08-2005, 08:22 PM
probly. i think thats why we drafted josh fields in the first round.
And that'll be his big motivation to get his head out of his @##.

It doesn't always work out that way...maybe he just stinks. But there is hope for that. He didn't lolligag through the minors, that's for sure.

FedEx227
01-08-2005, 08:28 PM
basically the only reason hes still our 3rd basemen is because of his defense, but we got Fields waiting in the wings. Theres a reason the Sox took a proven college 3rd basemen as opposed to up-in-air high school prospect...

so I'd say this year will be the determining year if Crede stays or goes.

soxwon
01-08-2005, 08:29 PM
And that'll be his big motivation to get his head out of his @##.

It doesn't always work out that way...maybe he just stinks. But there is hope for that. He didn't lolligag through the minors, that's for sure.

you know if we get rid of joe, he will turn into a monster and hit 35 homers with someone else.

bhayes520
01-08-2005, 08:34 PM
i used to be a big fan of his...now i hope he is hanging by a thick cord from a tall tree, not just a thread....he has consistently proven that he can't hit major league pitching, and i think it is just too bad that there is a Designated Hitter, but not a Designated Fielder, that way we could have some purpose for him, not just have him take up other human's space....:angry: :angry: :angry:

Whitesox029
01-08-2005, 08:38 PM
i used to be a big fan of his...now i hope he is hanging by a thick cord from a tall tree, not just a thread....he has consistently proven that he can't hit major league pitching, and i think it is just too bad that there is a Designated Hitter, but not a Designated Fielder, that way we could have some purpose for him, not just have him take up other human's space....:angry: :angry: :angry: I feel the same way, though perhaps we should just trade him rather than hanging him...at least that way we'd get a minor leaguer or two.

oh, and welcome to WSI.
:bandance::bandance:

FedEx227
01-08-2005, 08:44 PM
yo Bhayes, do you go to Downers Grove North or Downers Grove South high-school?

bhayes520
01-08-2005, 08:47 PM
no man...i go to benet, in lisle, but i have a couple of cousins who go to south and a friend at north....

bhayes520
01-08-2005, 08:49 PM
where are you at??? (P.S. the other person who posted after me also attends benet if that means anything to you)

batmanZoSo
01-08-2005, 08:54 PM
you know if we get rid of joe, he will turn into a monster and hit 35 homers with someone else.
He'll never be a monster. He just doesn't have the eye or the patience.

And I don't think we have a history of that kind of thing. We've been getting a pretty damn good return on our acquisitions lately...other teams like Colorado and Toronto (Uribe, Loaiza) have been the ones getting screwed in that sense.

PicktoCLick72
01-08-2005, 08:56 PM
Before we send the killing squad for crede let's see how he does this season. Maybe he will finally play thhe whole season like its September. If not, how soon will Josh Fields be ready.

Nick@Nite
01-08-2005, 09:04 PM
you know if we get rid of joe, he will turn into a monster and hit 35 homers with someone else.
Where, in the Hyde Park Legends League?

gobears1987
01-08-2005, 09:06 PM
you know if we get rid of joe, he will turn into a monster and hit 35 homers with someone else. Just like Olivo did last year.

gobears1987
01-08-2005, 09:08 PM
Before we send the killing squad for crede let's see how he does this season. Maybe he will finally play thhe whole season like its September. If not, how soon will Josh Fields be ready. Yes and Jon Garland will win 18 games this year.

OzzieBall2004
01-08-2005, 09:08 PM
He'll never be a monster. He just doesn't have the eye or the patience.

And I don't think we have a history of that kind of thing. We've been getting a pretty damn good return on our acquisitions lately...other teams like Colorado and Toronto (Uribe, Loaiza) have been the ones getting screwed in that sense.
We got Uribe by giving up Aaron Miles, who had a pretty damn good year last year and I think got some NL ROY votes.....

Wasn't Loaiza a non-roster invitee to spring training in 03?

OG4LIFE
01-08-2005, 09:13 PM
Before we send the killing squad for crede let's see how he does this season. Maybe he will finally play thhe whole season like its September. If not, how soon will Josh Fields be ready.if he progresses the way he did his first year in the minors, likely he will ready for certain by 2007, maybe 2006... i think 2006 would still be a little early.

one of the reasons i am a FOBB- moneyball says you draft mature, relatively proven college players who are only a year or two away from contributing... and you get them on the cheap for their first 6 years (or whenever arbitration kicks in). as opposed to drafing high risk-high reward hs players who usually take 3-4 years to develop, and then maybe they will be contributors. and even then, you only have them for 2 years.

where's the guy with the FOBB sig? the 'hey guys, i just traded my two best pitchers... BRILLIANT' guy... even though i am a FOBB, that sig was hilarious...

bhayes520
01-08-2005, 09:14 PM
picktoclik for recognizing that Illinois is No. 1, they continued the winning streak today, though they struggled in the first half against a poor purdue team....not that this is a college bball board, just thought i would show them the deserved respect:bandance:

OG4LIFE
01-08-2005, 09:17 PM
picktoclik for recognizing that Illinois is No. 1, they continued the winning streak today, though they struggled in the first half against a poor purdue team....not that this is a college bball board, just thought i would show them the deserved respect:bandance:
??

im not sure who you were addressing, but there are aplenty college bball threads in the parking lot forum, and quite a few on illinois as well. welcome, and check it out.

bhayes520
01-08-2005, 09:19 PM
i was quoting this guy from page 1


Before we send the killing squad for crede let's see how he does this season. Maybe he will finally play thhe whole season like its September. If not, how soon will Josh Fields be ready.

zach074
01-08-2005, 09:20 PM
I dont think we will have to worry after Crede doing what he is capable of this year. Bring back Crede's Crew he will be a big part of this team.

batmanZoSo
01-08-2005, 09:21 PM
We got Uribe by giving up Aaron Miles, who had a pretty damn good year last year and I think got some NL ROY votes.....

Wasn't Loaiza a non-roster invitee to spring training in 03?
The point is Toronto let him go and he won 21 games. With us.

I forgot about Miles...probably because we still got the better end of the deal. I'll take a 24 year old shortstop with a rocket arm and 25 home run power over a long time minor leaguer who has half the tools.

OG4LIFE
01-08-2005, 09:22 PM
The point is Toronto let him go and he won 21 games. With us.

I forgot about Miles...probably because we still got the better end of the deal. I'll take a 24 year old shortstop with a rocket arm and 25 home run power over a long time minor leaguer who has half the tools.
totally agree.

a little off topic, but i gotta ask- i saw a led zepplin cover band called zoso i believe... are you in this group or a fan of the band?

Nick@Nite
01-08-2005, 09:27 PM
Just like Olivo did last year.Yes and Jon Garland will win 18 games this year.
:tealpolice:

Teal Not Teal

Whitesox029
01-08-2005, 10:38 PM
Yes and Jon Garland will win 18 games this year. Also not Teal

JRIG
01-08-2005, 11:15 PM
where are you at??? (P.S. the other person who posted after me also attends benet if that means anything to you)You two behave around here. I don't want my alma mater to receive any black marks. :smile:

konerko1413
01-08-2005, 11:20 PM
if u look at credes stats as a 7, 8, or 9 hitter in the AL its not that bad, but when u look at him as a member of the whitesox who have fallen short 3 years in a row, thats when u come down hard on him, if crede were do enter free agency, besides the 6-8 teams that have premiere thirdbasemen already, every team would be interested in picking up a player of his caliber and potential

although i would love for him to break out and have an all star year, i know it will take some time for him as a young player, i think he will be fine in 05 but if he does have another 04 year, i cant see KW getting rid of him unless its for an oppertunity to get a randy johnson caliber pitcher or an eric chavez caliber thirdbasemen, ive said it before and ill say it again....

2005- the summer of crede!

konerko1413
01-08-2005, 11:23 PM
Yes and Jon Garland will win 18 games this year.
considering he will be facing #5 pitchers instead of #3 pitchers this year, i wouldnt be surprised if he won 15-17 games

cburns
01-09-2005, 02:55 AM
Ok Crede was bad last year, no doubt about that. Having said that I think that part of the reason he looked so bad was bc Frank and Maggs were out of the lineup. With them gone, everyone needed to step it up a notch or two, and Crede didn't do that. Hopefully he gets that loop out of his swing and is a more consistent contributer in 05.

sox7235
01-09-2005, 05:44 AM
Crede deserves one more shot. I'm not ready to give up on him just yet.

wassagstdu
01-09-2005, 11:54 AM
If Crede starts out strongly the Sox should unload him. If he starts slowly they are probably stuck with him. In any case, as long as Boras is his agent the Sox should get rid of him. It looks to me like Boras is using Carlos Beltran to drive up prices for the benefit of his portfolio, not for the benefit of Beltran. If Beltran goes to the Mets and doesn't perform like he did in 2004 postseason (how could he?) he will have big problems there. The Sox will never get a Boras client except one who hasn't developed yet like Crede. When he does develop, he will be as gone as Maggs.

Could it be that Boras has convinced him that if he isn't going to hit over 30 HR he will not make it as a third baseman (translation: his value to Boras' portfolio will not be great) so he had better keep swinging from the heels until he does?

FedEx227
01-09-2005, 11:58 AM
where are you at??? (P.S. the other person who posted after me also attends benet if that means anything to you)

I go to North I was just curious since it said Lisle and you were about the same age...who do you know at North?

John Barrett
01-09-2005, 12:04 PM
I
Could it be that Boras has convinced him that if he isn't going to hit over 30 HR he will not make it as a third baseman (translation: his value to Boras' portfolio will not be great) so he had better keep swinging from the heels until he does?

That could have some merit as i undertsand it Joe is kind of thick skulled when it comes to listening to walker or anybody for that matter.. he is going to do his own thing.. won't listen/take advice.. has anybody else heard this of Joe???

Randar68
01-09-2005, 12:13 PM
That could have some merit as i undertsand it Joe is kind of thick skulled when it comes to listening to walker or anybody for that matter.. he is going to do his own thing.. won't listen/take advice.. has anybody else heard this of Joe???
In the past that was true because his mechanics had always been successful for him... Seeing Walker's work with Konerko and the humbling 2004 season Crede had led to him approaching Walker more willing to work/change to address his swing-flaws exposed in the past 18 months. He built an indoor cage at his home in Missouri to work on the changes Walker wanted him to make. When he collapses his back leg/side, his swing get's long and that was one of his biggest problems. He and Walker were talking, reviewing tape weekly over the winter from what I heard and Walker was very pleased with his progress. It takes a long time to change a swing which feels natural and has been your own for 6-10 years.

konerko1413
01-09-2005, 12:13 PM
That could have some merit as i undertsand it Joe is kind of thick skulled when it comes to listening to walker or anybody for that matter.. he is going to do his own thing.. won't listen/take advice.. has anybody else heard this of Joe???

i never heard this, the way hawk and dj talked about him and his struggles this year, it seemed like he was always working with walker and that walker believed there was only a couple things for him to go over in his swing, they also had talked about walker suggesting for crede to try and hit the ball opposite field and that by the look of joe's swing, they believed that was what he ws tryin to do

tstrike2000
01-09-2005, 12:28 PM
Besides lack of production at the plate, I think a lot of fans see the same thing in Crede at the plate that they do Willie Harris. So much of the time they both have that "deer caught in the headlights" look on their faces. Joe could also greatly benefit to shortening that mile long swing of his. But yes, if he struggles in '05, he gone.

jabrch
01-09-2005, 12:44 PM
considering he will be facing #5 pitchers instead of #3 pitchers this year, i wouldnt be surprised if he won 15-17 games


Um - you do know that a #5 doesn't just always match up against a #5. Days off, rain days, rotation changes, skips, injuries, etc....

After the first series of the season, the rotations are all off...

If Garland comes up with 17 wins, I'd be stunned if this team doesn't win the division - HANDILY.

doublem23
01-09-2005, 01:08 PM
Not that I think Josh Fields is an immediate threat to Joe's job security, but this better be a put up or shut up year for Joe. The big thing for him is to not be so streaky, IMO. His droughts make the Sahara look like Lake Michigan.

tsamdog
01-09-2005, 01:24 PM
Not that I think Josh Fields is an immediate threat to Joe's job security, but this better be a put up or shut up year for Joe. The big thing for him is to not be so streaky, IMO. His droughts make the Sahara look like Lake Michigan.
I agree. The problem is that Fields is at least 1-2 years away. I believe he hit .280-ish in single A, with way too many strikeouts and a lack of power numbers. IMO this year is critical for both of them; otherwise, it's Uribe time at third and musical chairs in the middle infield.

Lip Man 1
01-09-2005, 01:33 PM
Maybe Crede's 'hanging by a thread' because his agent is Scott Boras and we know how the Sox 'love' to deal with his clients.

Lip

FarWestChicago
01-09-2005, 01:37 PM
Maybe Crede's 'hanging by a thread' because his agent is Scott Boras and we know how the Sox 'love' to deal with his clients.

Lip:borass:

I'm gonna get Joe a HUGE contract with the Mets!

doublem23
01-09-2005, 01:40 PM
Maybe Crede's 'hanging by a thread' because his agent is Scott Boras and we know how the Sox 'love' to deal with his clients.

Lip
Or maybe because last year he hit .239/21/69/.299/.418?

:rolleyes:

How could the Sox let that go?

JKryl
01-09-2005, 01:50 PM
Crede has had high expectations but still continues to have a litttle bit of a struggle, which leaves some fans ready to get rid of him. His defense is awesome, but he has been lacking a lot at the plate and i have heard a lot of sox fans complain. Do you think if he has a year like 04 in 05 he will be gone in 06?
I think he would be gone tomorrow if someone made a decent offer.

johnny_mostil
01-09-2005, 02:20 PM
If Garland comes up with 17 wins, I'd be stunned if this team doesn't win the division - HANDILY.
I'll be stunned if they don't anyway. I just finished a quick study of performance versus expectations before the 2004 season and the Twins got an awful lot more extremely out-of-whack performances, as did the Indians and Tigers, than the White Sox. None of the other teams in the division have done anything that remotely improves their teams.

johnny_mostil
01-09-2005, 02:21 PM
I think he would be gone tomorrow if someone made a decent offer.
I don't. Remember he was a Mariner request in the Garcia trade, denied, and his performance since then isn't any worse. He's coming off a terrible season. There's still potential.

tsamdog
01-09-2005, 02:29 PM
I don't. Remember he was a Mariner request in the Garcia trade, denied, and his performance since then isn't any worse. He's coming off a terrible season. There's still potential.
How much longer do the Sox wait? Is this his crossroads year?

MisterB
01-09-2005, 04:04 PM
I don't. Remember he was a Mariner request in the Garcia trade, denied, and his performance since then isn't any worse. He's coming off a terrible season. There's still potential.
KW balked at trading Crede then because he didn't want to give up two members of the starting lineup without having replacements for them.

Mingo
01-09-2005, 04:36 PM
As a fan - I've been in love with Joe Crede's potentional. I think he deserves another season to prove himself. Changing the offense focus from the long ball to an offense that battles to keep the inning alive -just might help him to play within himself. At least I'm hoping so.:smile:

bhayes520
01-09-2005, 06:37 PM
that this better be a "put up or shut up year" for crede , especially if he continues the trend of lowering his batting average every year ....in his first major stint of playing time he hit .285, granted it was only 53 games of the 2002 campaign, it was still .285, in '03 he hit .261 in 155 games, which honestly, i could live with, but in his 3rd major year, he hit .239, those 3B better than him offensively are as follows (100+ games played) :
Alfonzo (SFG) .289
Batista (Currently the Washington Nationals) .241
Bell (PHI) .291
Beltre (LAD) .334
Blake (CLE) .271 :angry:
Blalock (TEX) .276
Burroughs (SDP) .298
Castilla (COL) .271
Chavez (OAK) .276
Ensburg (HOU) .275
Hinske (TOR) .246
Huff (TAM) .297
Koskie (MIN) .241 :angry:
Lamb (HOU) .288
Lowell (FLA) .293
Mora (BAL) .340
Mueller (BOS) .283
Ramirez (CHC) .318 :angry:
Randa (KAN) .287:angry:
Rodriguez (NYY) .286
Rolen (STL) .314
Tracy (ARI) .285

So, as you can see, everyone in our division had a better 3rd baseman, and even the dreaded Cubs did something right this year with Aramis Ramirez. Now, obviously they aren't all as good defensively, but without Mags, Lee, and Valentin, we could still use some good hitting, especially of the power variety.

Big Joe had a very good fielding percentage of .965 last year, to tie him with Edgardo Alfonzo and Alex Rodriguez, but put him behind Castilla, Lowell, Beltre, Hinske, Rolen, Ramirez , Chavez, and Randa . Koskie was at .963, only .002 behind, and Blake was at .939, a little lower.

So basically we have the worst 3rd baseman in the city and in the division, and this didn't have any players who were listed by Yahoo! as those who could play at more than one position, (i.e. beloved Robin Ventura:smile: , Placido Polanco, Guillen , Bellhorn, Belliard , Jolbert Cabrera, Cuddyer, and many, many more)

Granted he is a solid defender, but if he can't hit, he isn't much use, and for whoever said that only th 8 or 10 teams who don't have a solid 3B wouldn't jump at Crede, look again. I see at least 22 solid 3B's right there, and remember this is a year without Glaus as well.

bhayes520
01-09-2005, 06:39 PM
anyone who knows a place that will do that for me, please post a link to that site, that post took like 30 min bc i had to look up each individual player.....:angry:

Lip Man 1
01-09-2005, 06:40 PM
Johnny:

I guess the Twins have been having 'out of whack' performances for the past four seasons then.

There's an old saying...once is a fluke, twice is a coincidence, three times or more is a trend.

The Twins know how to win despite not having the best talent. We'll see if the Sox can find the key to unlock the same area.

Lip

johnny_mostil
01-09-2005, 06:48 PM
KW balked at trading Crede then because he didn't want to give up two members of the starting lineup without having replacements for them.
So he traded Olivo instead? huh?

johnny_mostil
01-09-2005, 06:53 PM
Johnny:

I guess the Twins have been having 'out of whack' performances for the past four seasons then.

There's an old saying...once is a fluke, twice is a coincidence, three times or more is a trend.

The Twins know how to win despite not having the best talent. We'll see if the Sox can find the key to unlock the same area.

Lip
Not true. The Twins performance in 2002 and 2003 was more or less completely in line with reasonable expectations. Further, in the offseason, both years they took steps to mitigate their "losses". They are doing nothing this year. Nothing. They lost Koskie and Guzman and apparently intend to use Cuddyer to plug the 3B hole and let Rivas play every day. This is a downgrade at two positions.

In '02 they had David Ortiz, since a WS hero. They had Koskie, and Milton, and Pierzynski, and Minky... they have slowly bled away several players for financial reasons.

They don't "know how to win", they have had more real talent. But it's bleeding away, and it says here they got away with one in 2004.

Lip Man 1
01-09-2005, 06:56 PM
No one had the Twins pegged above the Sox talent wise in 2003 especially after Williams started making moves at midseason. Come September the Sox had a two game lead with 16 to go. Who won?

The Twins know how to win.

Lip

johnny_mostil
01-09-2005, 06:58 PM
that this better be a "put up or shut up year" for crede , especially if he continues the trend of lowering his batting average every year ....in his first major stint of playing time he hit .285, granted it was only 53 games of the 2002 campaign, it was still .285, in '03 he hit .261 in 155 games, which honestly, i could live with, but in his 3rd major year, he hit .239, those 3B better than him offensively are as follows (100+ games played) :
Koskie (MIN) .241 :angry:

You are killing me. Even if I accepted your premise that batting average is the key offensive stat, you are making 0.002 seem important. It's one hit in a season. It's a scorer's decision. It's a fly ball lost in the Humpdone ceiling.

Koskie was a lot better hitter than Joe, but not for this reason.

That said, of course Joe was the worst 3B in the division. He had a terrible year. He knows that, the White Sox know that, and every hot dog chewing attendee at the park knew it.

Daver
01-09-2005, 07:07 PM
You do realize that fantasy baseball numbers have nothing to do with the way the real game is played right?

MisterB
01-09-2005, 07:18 PM
So he traded Olivo instead? huh?
The original offer from Seattle (AFAIK) was Olivo, Crede and a minor leaguer for Garcia & Davis. Davis would cover at catcher in place of Olivo, but the only real option we had to cover 3B was Uribe, which I guess KW wasn't comfortable with at the time. So he countered with a high-level prospect (Reed) instead of Crede, which the Mariners found acceptable.

bhayes520
01-09-2005, 07:28 PM
You are killing me. Even if I accepted your premise that batting average is the key offensive stat, you are making 0.002 seem important. It's one hit in a season. It's a scorer's decision. It's a fly ball lost in the Humpdone ceiling.

Koskie was a lot better hitter than Joe, but not for this reason.

That said, of course Joe was the worst 3B in the division. He had a terrible year. He knows that, the White Sox know that, and every hot dog chewing attendee at the park knew it.

i really dont care if he had a terrible year and he knows it or not, the point is he has yet to have a good one and he is getting worse! i am not trying to say BA is the only stat, nor is .002 a big deal, im just saying he is a better hitter and just as good of a fielder with the same amount of developing time and the same division. unless crede has a monster year (highly unlikely) i am done with him