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View Full Version : First Jermaine Dye did it and now A.J. Pierzynski....


WhiteSoxFan84
01-08-2005, 02:41 AM
While getting more lucrative offers from other teams, reportedly the Dodgers and the Cardinals, A.J. Pierzynski decided the White Sox were the best fit.
-- South Arlington Daily Herald I love this. :bandance: :bandance: :bandance: :bandance: :bandance:

If only Carlos Beltran somehow, someway were to follow suit. Can you imagine the stories?

Although Beltran was offer 6 years, $105 million from the Mets; 6 years, $96 million from the Astros; 7 years, $110 million from the Yankees; and 6 years, $84 million from the Cubs, he instead took up the White Sox on their 3 year, $24 million offer because he saw them as the best fit.
-- Chicago Misinformer

munchman33
01-08-2005, 02:46 AM
...but good players don't want to come here!

bigdommer
01-08-2005, 07:57 AM
They probably just want to play in a big city on a good team with a fun manager and a reasonable shot to go to the playoffs. And they probably want to play in a park where they won't get booed by their own fans, like in Wrigley.

SoxFan76
01-08-2005, 08:51 AM
:jerry

"Yeah, who wants to get booed in their own stadium?"

Soxzilla
01-08-2005, 09:07 AM
Interesting ...

FedEx227
01-08-2005, 09:14 AM
We don't need Beltran we have Roward in Center and Dye in Right..

CubKilla
01-08-2005, 10:24 AM
...but good players don't want to come here!
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

johnny_mostil
01-08-2005, 10:42 AM
We don't need Beltran we have Roward in Center and Dye in Right..
I'm going on record right now saying whomever actually signs Carlos Beltran is going to be disappointed.

Not because he won't be good (he probably will be), but because he is going to be expected to play like a Franchise Savior ballplayer to justify his immense salary.

Palehose13
01-08-2005, 10:45 AM
We don't need Beltran we have Roward in Center and Dye in Right..
I don't think this should be in teal. I like the 2005 White Sox outfield. Beltran would not have given KW payroll flexibility to make other moves to improve the ballculb.

OEO Magglio
01-08-2005, 10:47 AM
I don't think this should be in teal. I like the 2005 White Sox outfield. Beltran would not have given KW payroll flexibility to make other moves to improve the ballculb.
Ya, that. Who would you rather have Beltran or Dye, Hermanson, aj, and el duque and some more money to play with. I'll definitely take the latter by far.

RedHeadPaleHoser
01-08-2005, 10:47 AM
I don't think this should be in teal. I like the 2005 White Sox outfield. Beltran would not have given KW payroll flexibility to make other moves to improve the ballculb.
Totally agree. We might not have the optimal outfield....but imagine what happens to whoever signs Beltran and he has a "regular" year...fans will be searching for heads for $$ lost. I am excited to see speed and defense emphasized.

fquaye149
01-08-2005, 10:48 AM
I'm going on record right now saying whomever actually signs Carlos Beltran is going to be disappointed.

Not because he won't be good (he probably will be), but because he is going to be expected to play like a Franchise Savior ballplayer to justify his immense salary.
absolutely.

.280, 30, 100 with 50 stolen bases are great numbers, but he's going to be getting a-rod money. Those are NOT A-rod numbers.

And since stat heads tell us clutch hitters don't exist, what he did in the playoffs last year doesn't matter

JUribe1989
01-08-2005, 10:50 AM
We don't need Beltran we have Roward in Center and Dye in Right..
There's no way this should be in teal. Rowand hit .310 last year and Beltran hit .269. They both made 8 errors so I consider them almost equal in the field. Rowand is underrated as a fielder because he never has to make a diving catch because he times when to be under the ball perfectly. Beltran is completely overpaid because of a playoff performance.

jabrch
01-08-2005, 10:56 AM
The 2005 Sox team looks, on the whole, better than the 2004 team did going into the season. We don't have the gaping hole at 5th starter. We have a far superior offensive catcher. And I think we have the best bullpen I have seen in a long time on the South Side. We are more confident in what Uribe can do, and we don't have Valentin. We still have holes at 3B and 2B potentially, and until Frank gets back we will struggle to get consistent offensive production from whomever DHs, but that's ok.

Is this a WS caliber team going into the year? No, I don't think so. But it surely has potential to win 90+ games and make the playoffs. That's gotta be goal #1.

Fredsox
01-08-2005, 11:01 AM
I don't think this should be in teal. I like the 2005 White Sox outfield. Beltran would not have given KW payroll flexibility to make other moves to improve the ballculb.
I don't know what the average length of a MLB player's career is, but my guess is that it isn't 7 years. Beltran is going to get 7 years and $100+ million, and if the guy gets seriously hurt or if his skill just diminish between now and his 35th birthday, somebody is left holding the bag for $15 million a year. That's a lot of money now and its still gonna be a lot of money in 2011.

Anybody who signs any player to more than 4 years is asking for trouble, I don't care who you're talking about. Signing Beltran like this is a guaranteed mistake over the life of the contract. To tie this back to the conversation, we are clearly getting more value for our dollars with our outfield.

Sorry for the rant. I've had it with over-paid players and unscrupulous agents bending the fans over for every dime they can get.

tsamdog
01-08-2005, 12:31 PM
I don't think this should be in teal. I like the 2005 White Sox outfield. Beltran would not have given KW payroll flexibility to make other moves to improve the ballculb.
Absolutely....plus the strength in the minors (Sweeney, Anderson) are corner outfielders. The table is being set down the road as well with $ to work with.

johnny_mostil
01-08-2005, 12:44 PM
absolutely.

.280, 30, 100 with 50 stolen bases are great numbers, but he's going to be getting a-rod money. Those are NOT A-rod numbers.

And since stat heads tell us clutch hitters don't exist, what he did in the playoffs last year doesn't matter
Please see Jeter, Derek, or Thomas, Frank, for evidence of inconsistency between playoff seasons. Yeah, Beltran was hot. That doesn't mean he'll be hot the next time he's in a playoff.

cburns
01-08-2005, 01:26 PM
Please see Jeter, Derek, or Thomas, Frank, for evidence of inconsistency between playoff seasons. Yeah, Beltran was hot. That doesn't mean he'll be hot the next time he's in a playoff.
Yeah but Frank had 7 years between playoff appearances.

johnny_mostil
01-08-2005, 01:46 PM
Yeah but Frank had 7 years between playoff appearances.
Pull out your Big Mac (MacMillan) or any other suitable reference and look at playoff/WS numbers. They are wildly inconsistent, even for great players. Anything can happen in a dozen games.

fquaye149
01-08-2005, 02:05 PM
Please see Jeter, Derek, or Thomas, Frank, for evidence of inconsistency between playoff seasons. Yeah, Beltran was hot. That doesn't mean he'll be hot the next time he's in a playoff.
I was only being slightly sarcastic.

Plus it's not as if the cubs or mets should care about his playoff performance.

cburns
01-08-2005, 02:07 PM
Pull out your Big Mac (MacMillan) or any other suitable reference and look at playoff/WS numbers. They are wildly inconsistent, even for great players. Anything can happen in a dozen games.
I totally agree with you on that, but my point is the more playoff appearances you have, the easier it is to judge someone on how well they perform in the playoffs.

johnny_mostil
01-08-2005, 02:14 PM
I totally agree with you on that, but my point is the more playoff appearances you have, the easier it is to judge someone on how well they perform in the playoffs.
True, but until about 1995, you were mostly judging Yankees, Dodgers, and maybe Cardinals, weren't you? Nobody else went often enough to have a track record.

gosox41
01-08-2005, 03:32 PM
I don't know what the average length of a MLB player's career is, but my guess is that it isn't 7 years. Beltran is going to get 7 years and $100+ million, and if the guy gets seriously hurt or if his skill just diminish between now and his 35th birthday, somebody is left holding the bag for $15 million a year. That's a lot of money now and its still gonna be a lot of money in 2011.

Anybody who signs any player to more than 4 years is asking for trouble, I don't care who you're talking about. Signing Beltran like this is a guaranteed mistake over the life of the contract. To tie this back to the conversation, we are clearly getting more value for our dollars with our outfield.

Sorry for the rant. I've had it with over-paid players and unscrupulous agents bending the fans over for every dime they can get.
I ownder how many players that sign long term contracts (5 or more years) for big money ($10 mill or more) actually work out for both the team and the player for the whole or most of the time. For example, Beltran is expected to be a superstar. And while he had a very good year last year, I don't think he's Willie Mays. So wherever he goes the team better win and he better put up damn good numbers al 7 years.


Bob

WhiteSoxFan84
01-08-2005, 06:55 PM
I'm going on record right now saying whomever actually signs Carlos Beltran is going to be disappointed.

Not because he won't be good (he probably will be), but because he is going to be expected to play like a Franchise Savior ballplayer to justify his immense salary.
I thought about the samething and you're right.

But seeing him in the playoffs last year, I think he can handle pressure quite well. He doesn't seem to be frightened by anything or anyone and seems to love challenges.

The main negative I see is that Beltran was playing so well in KC under the radar. No one cared about spending that much time scouting him or looking for his weaknesses because they didn't care about KC since the team sucked and was never going to be a postseason threat. But being in Houston last year and doing what he did in the playoffs, opposing managers and pitchers will certainly know him a lot better when they face him this year. That, the pressure of a huge contract, unlimited expectations, and a possibly a new home maybe enough to break this guy no matter how strong he seems to be.

batmanZoSo
01-08-2005, 07:53 PM
I don't think this should be in teal. I like the 2005 White Sox outfield. Beltran would not have given KW payroll flexibility to make other moves to improve the ballculb.
Exactly. That's why I was always against getting Beltran. He doesn't make us much better. Podsednik, Pierzynski, Hernandez, Dye and Vizcaino, however...do. I think we'll see how a good collective unit beats a few superstars.

batmanZoSo
01-08-2005, 08:01 PM
I thought about the samething and you're right.

But seeing him in the playoffs last year, I think he can handle pressure quite well. He doesn't seem to be frightened by anything or anyone and seems to love challenges.

The main negative I see is that Beltran was playing so well in KC under the radar. No one cared about spending that much time scouting him or looking for his weaknesses because they didn't care about KC since the team sucked and was never going to be a postseason threat. But being in Houston last year and doing what he did in the playoffs, opposing managers and pitchers will certainly know him a lot better when they face him this year. That, the pressure of a huge contract, unlimited expectations, and a possibly a new home maybe enough to break this guy no matter how strong he seems to be.
He's a legit talent. You don't figure guys like him out. He'll be damn good no matter where he plays or how much they scout him. Believe me, they were scouting the hell out of him all throughout the playoffs and they still couldn't get him out. People know who he is, why do you think there was so much hype about his trade talks last summer? I do think he is a tad overrated, after all he did bat .260 something last year and his career hitting stats are not eye-popping*...and no I wouldn't want him on the Sox just because I know that would be all we'd get. But I don't see any negatives with him as a player. Only that he's asking you to tie him up for a long time for a ton of money and he could get hurt like anyone else.

johnny_mostil
01-08-2005, 08:02 PM
Exactly. That's why I was always against getting Beltran. He doesn't make us much better. Podsednik, Pierzynski, Hernandez, Dye and Vizcaino, however...do. I think we'll see how a good collective unit beats a few superstars.
Sure he would, with a $110M payroll. But on a $75M team he's unaffordable.

HoustonAstros967
01-08-2005, 08:48 PM
I'm going on record right now saying whomever actually signs Carlos Beltran is going to be disappointed.

Not because he won't be good (he probably will be), but because he is going to be expected to play like a Franchise Savior ballplayer to justify his immense salary.
I agree just because Carlos Beltran performed well in the playoffs doesn't mean hes going to be that hot in the regular season. He hit .268 during the regular season and no one talked about him. I don't think it is a good idea to pay around 100 million dollars and base a franchise around someone who was only hot for a couple of weeks in the playoffs. The only team that should be trying to get him is the Astros and the Yankees because they have a great shot at the world series with him on the team.

gobears1987
01-08-2005, 09:59 PM
Someone who chooses a team that they like over more money is a good person. Perhaps whiney cry babies like Magglio can learn from AJ's example. This doesn't sound like someone who will be a clubhouse cancer. He's already one me over with this one. I bet 90% of players would take money over playing for a team they want to play for. The only other person who comes to mind is Clemens.