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View Full Version : Why Sandberg was overrated


Bisco Stu
01-08-2005, 12:16 AM
He rarely dove for balls. He was never truly dominant. He gets in the HOF because of the HR's for his position, but he wasn't all that.

MUsoxfan
01-08-2005, 12:27 AM
This has been discussed in many many other threads (and recently). I don't know why you felt the need to start another one

soxnut
01-08-2005, 12:28 AM
Sanberg didn't have to dive for balls. He got to most of them without diving. Joe Dimaggio never dove for balls either. Why? They both had great range for their respective positions.

I didn't like Sandberg when he was playing, basically because he was a Cub. But at the moment I can't think of a 2nd basemen who was better at the time that he played. And had the longevity that he did as well.

FarWestChicago
01-08-2005, 12:49 AM
Sanberg didn't have to dive for balls.:buddylee

I didn't dive for balls, either. And some dumbasses thought I was the second coming of Ozzie Smith.

beckett21
01-08-2005, 12:53 AM
:buddylee

I didn't dive for balls, either. And some dumbasses thought I was the second coming of Ozzie Smith. :thechoice

The_Cheesiest_Idiot
01-08-2005, 01:15 AM
sandberg
H-----2b-3b--hr---r----rbi---sb-bb--ba---oba--slg
2386 403 76 282 1318 1061 344 761 .285 .344 .452


joe morgan
h-----2b-3b--hr---r----rbi---sb--bb---ba--oba--slg
2517 449 96 268 1650 1133 689 1865 .271 .392 .427


morgan had about 500 more games played and about 1000 more at bats.

how many gold gloves for sandberg? how many all star teams?
even tho my bias is against a cub. his numbers say he's in

soxnut
01-08-2005, 01:20 AM
sandberg
H 2b 3b hr r rbi sb bb ba oba slg
2386 403 76 282 1318 1061 344 761 .285 .344 .452


joe morgan
h 2b 3b hr r rbi sb bb ba oba slg
2517 449 96 268 1650 1133 689 1865 .271 .392 .427


morgan had about 500 more games played and about 1000 more at bats.

how many gold gloves for sandberg? how many all star teams?
even tho my bias is against a cub. his numbers say he's inOf course he's in. But, of course, there's always the Sox fan who's a dipwad that can't handle the truth.:(:

soxnut
01-08-2005, 01:24 AM
:buddylee

I didn't dive for balls, either. And some dumbasses thought I was the second coming of Ozzie Smith.As I stated, Joe D didn't dive for balls either, but I see how you skipped over that part, just to be a dumbass yourself.:redneck I know it's hard to handle the truth about how a former Cub is going into the Hall, but he deserves it. Sorry.:whiner:

FarWestChicago
01-08-2005, 01:27 AM
As I stated, Joe D didn't dive for balls either, but I see how you skipped over that part, just to be a dumbass yourself.:redneck I know it's hard to handle the truth about how a former Cub is going into the Hall, but he deserves it. Sorry.:whiner:Well, since I'm a "dumbass" you don't need to use my board now, do you. After all, I'm too stupid to make it work. http://www.flyingsock.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Oh, I forgot:

:crossdresser

TornLabrum
01-08-2005, 08:40 AM
Note to Soxnut:

The way it usually works is that one resorts to ad hominem attacks when one is losing an argument, not when one is winning.

Another note to Soxnut:

It is a wise man who knows not to resort to ad hominem attacks when dealing with a moderator.

bmac5001
01-08-2005, 09:05 AM
while you could argue that the fact that he "rarely dove for balls" constitutes him overrated, that's hardly enough to keep him out of the hall. he clearly deserved the induction, whether or not he played for the cubs.

fquaye149
01-08-2005, 11:40 AM
The numbers were marginal. We compare him to Joe Morgan, but Joe Morgan is not in solely for his career offensive production. He's in for the big seasons and his key role on the Big Red Machine as well.

Meanwhile, Sandberg is allegedly in for his defense and "being the best second baseman in the league at the time."

I would say that he should be in the hall, but barely...and his defense is just indicative of his cub status - just do enough to make yourself look good, not to help the team.

Meanwhile, if you don't see the difference between outfielders diving and infielders diving, I don't know what to tell you.

Palehose13
01-08-2005, 11:43 AM
Meanwhile, if you don't see the difference between outfielders diving and infielders diving, I don't know what to tell you.
:o: You mean there's a difference?

PaleHoseGeorge
01-08-2005, 12:01 PM
The only way I would agree Sandberg deserves to go into the Hall is if his ex-wife Cindy shows up wearing the corn cob dress she wore for his retirement press conference-- the first one. The one where he was all puddling up about spending more time with his family, blah blah blah... then she divorced his ass... and he came back to the Flubs, loser that he is.

Oh, and when Cindy shows up in Cooperstown, I want Rafael Palmiero standing next to her, his hand behind her in a place no one can see.
:wink:

fquaye149
01-08-2005, 12:35 PM
Oh, and when Cindy shows up in Cooperstown, I want Rafael Palmiero standing next to her, his hand behind her in a place no one can see.
:wink:
lol...wow:tongue:

Nick@Nite
01-08-2005, 12:35 PM
The only way I would agree Sandberg deserves to go into the Hall is if his ex-wife Cindy shows up wearing the corn cob dress she wore for his retirement press conference-- the first one. The one where he was all puddling up about spending more time with his family, blah blah blah... then she divorced his ass... and he came back to the Flubs, loser that he is.

Oh, and when Cindy shows up in Cooperstown, I want Rafael Palmiero standing next to her, his hand behind her in a place no one can see.
:wink:I was never aware of Cindy Sandberg's notoriety, let alone her (famous?) corn cob dress until recently. Anyone have a pic?

downstairs
01-08-2005, 06:49 PM
I am curious how many division winning seasons, playoff series and/or World Series Sandberg helped the Cubs win during his tenure?

Last I checked it wasn't too many.

For the same reason I generally don't complain about the White Sox being under-represented in the HOF, I never saw Sandberg as a hall of famer. Close, but not quite in my book.

The goal is to win the World Series. If not that, at least playoff domination.

Compare all the stats you want, Morgan, for whatever reason, did that.

JRIG
01-08-2005, 06:59 PM
I am curious how many division winning seasons, playoff series and/or World Series Sandberg helped the Cubs win during his tenure?

Last I checked it wasn't too many.

For the same reason I generally don't complain about the White Sox being under-represented in the HOF, I never saw Sandberg as a hall of famer. Close, but not quite in my book.

The goal is to win the World Series. If not that, at least playoff domination.

Compare all the stats you want, Morgan, for whatever reason, did that.
I use that same argument to rally against Hank Aaron and Frank Thomas for the HOF. Only 2 playoff for Frank, and in 23(!) seasons, only 2 WS and 3 total playoffs appearances for Aaron. Definitely not HOF material.

downstairs
01-08-2005, 07:09 PM
I use that same argument to rally against Hank Aaron and Frank Thomas for the HOF. Only 2 playoff for Frank, and in 23(!) seasons, only 2 WS and 3 total playoffs appearances for Aaron. Definitely not HOF material.
Thomas is already (and fairly) *very* borderline. If he retired today, I would not think of him as a HOF'er. Close, maybe. If he continues at this pace, or better, for a few more years... I could see it.

Aaron is a totally different story. For some, your stats alone clinch a HOF entry, and that's fine. But that is rare.

For Sandberg, his stats are good. But not HOF material, in my opinion. So I then look at what he did in terms of winning playoffs.

batmanZoSo
01-08-2005, 09:47 PM
I am curious how many division winning seasons, playoff series and/or World Series Sandberg helped the Cubs win during his tenure?

Last I checked it wasn't too many.

For the same reason I generally don't complain about the White Sox being under-represented in the HOF, I never saw Sandberg as a hall of famer. Close, but not quite in my book.

The goal is to win the World Series. If not that, at least playoff domination.

Compare all the stats you want, Morgan, for whatever reason, did that.
What kind of logic is that? Nobody from the Cubs should ever make the hall with that thinking in place. Or us, either. Making playoffs and winning world series is not about individual players, it's about being on the right team and helping the cause. I think Sandberg would've helped the 75-76 Reds just like Morgan did. Morgan didn't have that much to do with the Big Red Machine's dominance by himself. Take a look around him. I do believe he's a hall of fame player, but because he was an awesome player. Not because he won two World Series. How can you fault Sandberg for being on a bad team? It makes no sense at all.

I'm not completely discounting playoff success, but it should only help the player's cause if he's borderline. After all, stepping up and performing lights out on the big stage is what great players do. But faulting someone for rarely or never having the chance is not fair.