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PorkChopExpress
01-07-2005, 01:52 PM
What is his contract situation? Are we ever going to see him have a "contract year" because he is due for a renewal or free agency?

Jjav829
01-07-2005, 01:54 PM
What is his contract situation? Are we ever going to see him have a "contract year" because he is due for a renewal or free agency?I believe he's arbitration eligible after this season, so he has a little extra incentive for the 2005 season.

veeter
01-07-2005, 01:57 PM
I believe he's arbitration eligible after this season, so he has a little extra incentive for the 2005 season. Anything to light a fire under his disinterested backside.

Randar68
01-07-2005, 01:57 PM
Anything to light a fire under his disinterested backside.edit: veeter's comment is both uncalled-for and inane.

Randar68
01-07-2005, 01:59 PM
What is his contract situation? Are we ever going to see him have a "contract year" because he is due for a renewal or free agency?
Joe Crede is not that kind of person. He's very hard on himself and has a very good work ethic on his own without the need for contract motivation. Give him this season before everyone lynches him.

PorkChopExpress
01-07-2005, 02:01 PM
Joe Crede is not that kind of person. He's very hard on himself and has a very good work ethic on his own without the need for contract motivation. Give him this season before everyone lynches him.
I'm not looking to lynch him, I've always liked the guy. I was just hoping that, like a lot of other MLB players when they are due for a new contract, he might turn it on a little. I expect he will have a better season than last anyway, but I wouldn't mind seeing a .278/30/90 season out of him.

Ol' No. 2
01-07-2005, 02:04 PM
I'm not looking to lynch him, I've always liked the guy. I was just hoping that, like a lot of other MLB players when they are due for a new contract, he might turn it on a little. I expect he will have a better season than last anyway, but I wouldn't mind seeing a .278/30/90 season out of him.Why would you assume his poor year was due to lack of effort? In my experience, it's usually the opposite. Trying too hard is usually counterproductive. Once you start pressing, you're screwed.

Randar68
01-07-2005, 02:06 PM
Why would you assume his poor year was due to lack of effort? In my experience, it's usually the opposite. Trying too hard is usually counterproductive. Once you start pressing, you're screwed.
This is true in baseball moreso than any major sport and is one of the primary reasons football players have such a hard time with the transition unless they have the right mentality...

Randar68
01-07-2005, 02:08 PM
I'm not looking to lynch him, I've always liked the guy. I was just hoping that, like a lot of other MLB players when they are due for a new contract, he might turn it on a little. I expect he will have a better season than last anyway, but I wouldn't mind seeing a .278/30/90 season out of him.
For the terrible, crap season he had, he hit 21 HR's with 69 RBI's batting at the bottom of the order. Most of the time he didn't take his offensive struggles into the field with him, which is very important...

tsamdog
01-07-2005, 02:11 PM
Why would you assume his poor year was due to lack of effort? In my experience, it's usually the opposite. Trying too hard is usually counterproductive. Once you start pressing, you're screwed.
I believe you're right on target with JC. He has always struck me as a kid that has internalized any frustration.

PorkChopExpress
01-07-2005, 02:29 PM
Why would you assume his poor year was due to lack of effort? In my experience, it's usually the opposite. Trying too hard is usually counterproductive. Once you start pressing, you're screwed.
I never said there was a lack of effort, but someone who works hard all of the time can still work harder in a contract year. It has happened in the past that some average players have above average seasons during contract years. No one ever said they weren't trying before that year, but they plainly did something different - maybe just matured. It happens, and I was wondering if anyone here thought this might happen with Crede.

Ol' No. 2
01-07-2005, 02:39 PM
I never said there was a lack of effort, but someone who works hard all of the time can still work harder in a contract year. It has happened in the past that some average players have above average seasons during contract years. No one ever said they weren't trying before that year, but they plainly did something different - maybe just matured. It happens, and I was wondering if anyone here thought this might happen with Crede.No. If anything, it seems like he's pressing. With the success Walker had with Konerko, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. If he says he's got Crede's bug worked out, I'll take that at face value until I see something different.

I hope Walker is going to be giving a fundamentals seminar at Soxfest. I'd like to hear it straight from the horse's mouth. He had some very interesting things to say about Konerko's problems last year.

hold2dibber
01-07-2005, 02:56 PM
I'm not looking to lynch him, I've always liked the guy. I was just hoping that, like a lot of other MLB players when they are due for a new contract, he might turn it on a little. I expect he will have a better season than last anyway, but I wouldn't mind seeing a .278/30/90 season out of him.
I'd be thrilled if Crede can post an OBP in the .320 to .333 range, with the same power numbers (20 or so homers) and defense as last year. That would make a huge difference for this offense.

Randar68
01-07-2005, 02:57 PM
No. If anything, it seems like he's pressing. With the success Walker had with Konerko, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. If he says he's got Crede's bug worked out, I'll take that at face value until I see something different.

I hope Walker is going to be giving a fundamentals seminar at Soxfest. I'd like to hear it straight from the horse's mouth. He had some very interesting things to say about Konerko's problems last year.
Heard him on the radio talking about Crede collapsing on the back side in addition to a few other swing flaws he pointed out they had discussed and that Crede was working on in the offseason in a new indoor batting cages he had built at his home in Missouri.

Then went on to talk about how so many good young players get by with poor mechanics and such, even through their first year or 2 in the league before pitchers figure out how to expose them. Said Crede was frustrated and really started pressing early last year and made things worse when he did so.

I was very skeptical, but after hearing him talk very convincingly, I'm eager to see Joe in Spring Training and see how he looks...

veeter
01-07-2005, 04:53 PM
edit: veeter's comment is both uncalled-for and inane. What can I say, Crede was a major disappointment last year. And in MY OPINION he showed lack of effort on many occasions. I mean he had trouble TAGGING RUNNERS! Maybe while he looks lack luster on the outside he's really churning inside, wanting to really win. From the outside he looks, at times, like someone with no fire. That happens to be my pet peeve.

Ol' No. 2
01-07-2005, 04:55 PM
What can I say, Crede was a major disappointment last year. And in MY OPINION he showed lack of effort on many occasions. I mean he had trouble TAGGING RUNNERS! Maybe while he looks lack luster on the outside he's really churning inside, wanting to really win. From the outside he looks, at times, like someone with no fire. That happens to be my pet peeve.Would jumping up and down, throwing his glove and punching telephones make him a better ball player?

veeter
01-07-2005, 06:57 PM
Would jumping up and down, throwing his glove and punching telephones make him a better ball player? There a lot of ways to show fire other than having a temper tantrum. Look, as many guys on this sight pick on Willie, I pick on Crede. I'll admit I'm kicking him when he's down but he bugs me. I do however reserve the right to jump right back on his bandwagon. I've suffered with the Sox for over 30 years and if he does well I'll praise him.

Ol' No. 2
01-08-2005, 01:32 PM
There a lot of ways to show fire other than having a temper tantrum. Look, as many guys on this sight pick on Willie, I pick on Crede. I'll admit I'm kicking him when he's down but he bugs me. I do however reserve the right to jump right back on his bandwagon. I've suffered with the Sox for over 30 years and if he does well I'll praise him.You're confusing outward displays with effort. The latter matters, the former doesn't.

PaleHoseGeorge
01-08-2005, 02:57 PM
You're confusing outward displays with effort. The latter matters, the former doesn't. Konerko is a good one for public displays of frustration with himself. It became almost a cliche back in '03 to watch him drill the barrel of his bat into the dirt and hang his head after yet another groundout. He was doing it (for a short while) in '04, too. Sincere or not, it sure keeps the boo-birds at bay -- the same mental giants who would throw trash on the field when Magglio comes back to the Cell.

As for Crede, Harrelson (and Rooney, too) both made quite a few comments about Crede's lousy year towards the end of the '04 season. He lost weight, lost his power, and wasn't making adjustments in his swing. Neither of them was very flattering in their comments... and they had plenty to say those last few weeks in September.

Hawk's comments I take with a grain of salt because he is simply JR's mouthpiece. If Hawk is down on a Sox player, you can take it to the bank that the Sox organization is down on him, too, whether he deserves it or not.

:crede
<gulp>

IMO, I would put far more credibility into Rooney's similar comments on the radio. Viewed together they are pretty damning towards Crede's prospects with the Sox.

Regardless of '04 shortcomings, it's Crede's job again in '05. Let's see how much patience the Sox have with him.
:?:

Mohoney
01-08-2005, 03:05 PM
Regardless of '04 shortcomings, it's Crede's job again in '05. Let's see how much patience the Sox have with him.
:?:
At this point, there is no backup plan. I guess patience will have to be the course of action.

I'm not totally convinced that the guy can't play, or that Willie can't play, but we really need to hedge our bets with these guys and sign a guy that can play both 2B and SS so we can sit whoever is the bigger liability between the two.

Out of all the guys we let go after '03, Tony G and his versatility seems like the hardest to replace. I was very unhappy when we let him go, and I'm even more unhappy that his utility role hasn't been adequately replaced yet.

johnny_mostil
01-08-2005, 03:08 PM
IMO, I would put far more credibility into Rooney's similar comments on the radio. Viewed together they are pretty damning towards Crede's prospects with the Sox.

Yeah, but in June it was reported that the Mariners wanted Crede instead of Olivo at first and the White Sox org said no even though he was already having a horrendous season. (It may have been because he was hitting .320 in the month of June). I can't believe that they changed their minds that much in the second half, especially since Crede actually hit well in September.

johnny_mostil
01-08-2005, 03:12 PM
Out of all the guys we let go after '03, Tony G and his versatility seems like the hardest to replace. I was very unhappy when we let him go, and I'm even more unhappy that his utility role hasn't been adequately replaced yet.
You'd be pretty unhappy if the White Sox had kept him. He had a pretty rotten season last year, and Uribe was the "utility man" so he was replaced just fine. The issue is not that they didn't replace him, it's that it's open again.

As PHG wrote, it's nice to be worried about our utility infielder.

Mohoney
01-08-2005, 03:30 PM
You'd be pretty unhappy if the White Sox had kept him. He had a pretty rotten season last year, and Uribe was the "utility man" so he was replaced just fine. The issue is not that they didn't replace him, it's that it's open again.

As PHG wrote, it's nice to be worried about our utility infielder.
Since last season was a lost season anyway, Tony's poor showing wouldn't have meant all that much. Maybe I'm biased, but a utility guy like that should have been kept around.

Granted, Uribe did fill that role last year. So the choice really came down to Graffanino or Valentin. I NEVER would have renewed Valentin at that price last offseason when Graffanino was much cheaper and Uribe could have started. I was pretty upset when they committed that much money to Jose after his 2003 season.

kittle545feet
01-08-2005, 04:55 PM
What can I say, Crede was a major disappointment last year. And in MY OPINION he showed lack of effort on many occasions. I mean he had trouble TAGGING RUNNERS! Maybe while he looks lack luster on the outside he's really churning inside, wanting to really win. From the outside he looks, at times, like someone with no fire. That happens to be my pet peeve. I know what your saying, I really do. But, I don't think Crede is that kind of player. He is every bit as hard on himself as Paulie is when he strikes out or can't get a runner over. PK looks like he wants to go nuts sometimes when he has a bad at-bat. Crede has the fire too, he just doesn't show it like that. I don't think Ventura was the most outspoken and vocal person or a player who just lost it now and then. (except when he decided he wanted Nolan Ryan to give him noogies) Yet, nobody questioned his heart or dedication. To me, Crede's situation is a question of talent. While his desire and work ethic are incredible, I feel his talent potential is not as high as everyone thinks it is. I think a career year for this guy would be .280, 25 HR's, and 90 RBI's. Sure, I would take those numbers in a heartbeat, but don't expect anymore than that. The talent just isn't there for anymore. If he has a year like that, I think we will win the division. I do see a few gold gloves in his future though.:nod: