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View Full Version : It's official - we're now better than last year


lowesox
01-07-2005, 07:58 AM
I've got to give it to Kenny, I think he's done a fabulous job putting this team together. Chances are, with the signing of AJ, this team is just about finished being put together. I can see us signing a 3-4 veterans to minor league contracts and one 2b or a SS, but I don't anticipate those moves having a drastic effect on the roster.

Right now I really like what we've got.

A strong batting order from 1 to 9. A lineup that won't just look for the big three-run homerun (goodbye inconsistency!). A solid leadoff hitter. Guys who can run. A top catcher. A deep bullpen. Two legitimate aces. Three other guys who wouldn't surprise anyone by winning 15 games. A deep bullpen. And a feisty coach with his 'rookie' season of managing behind him.

This has easily been Kenny's best offseason to date!

gosox41
01-07-2005, 08:04 AM
I've got to give it to Kenny, I think he's done a fabulous job putting this team together. Chances are, with the signing of AJ, this team is just about finished being put together. I can see us signing a 3-4 veterans to minor league contracts and one 2b or a SS, but I don't anticipate those moves having a drastic effect on the roster.

Right now I really like what we've got.

A strong batting order from 1 to 9. A lineup that won't just look for the big three-run homerun (goodbye inconsistency!). A solid leadoff hitter. Guys who can run. A top catcher. A deep bullpen. Two legitimate aces. Three other guys who wouldn't surprise anyone by winning 15 games. A deep bullpen. And a feisty coach with his 'rookie' season of managing behind him.

This has easily been Kenny's best offseason to date!

I agree. KW has had a very good of season. I'm even starting to get really excited for SoxFest and the 2005 seasn, at least more then least season.


Bob

OEO Magglio
01-07-2005, 08:16 AM
I've got to give it to Kenny, I think he's done a fabulous job putting this team together. Chances are, with the signing of AJ, this team is just about finished being put together. I can see us signing a 3-4 veterans to minor league contracts and one 2b or a SS, but I don't anticipate those moves having a drastic effect on the roster.

Right now I really like what we've got.

A strong batting order from 1 to 9. A lineup that won't just look for the big three-run homerun (goodbye inconsistency!). A solid leadoff hitter. Guys who can run. A top catcher. A deep bullpen. Two legitimate aces. Three other guys who wouldn't surprise anyone by winning 15 games. A deep bullpen. And a feisty coach with his 'rookie' season of managing behind him.

This has easily been Kenny's best offseason to date!
I agree with you, definitely kenny's best offseason to date. He's filled every single hole on the team, while question marks still remain there is no glaring weakness on this sox team. Also I expect one more move with the signing of a middle infielder whether it be Iguchi, Cora, or Cairo, jmo.

Iguana775
01-07-2005, 08:45 AM
come on!! KW is the second coming of the anti-christ and will do whatever it takes to destroy the White Sox!!


;)


it's surprising how KW can go to being the worst GM in the world a couple years ago to doing an awesome job. i guess it goes to show you that people can make mistakes and learn from them. KW has done a pretty damn good job the last year and a half. maybe he just need to get the right manager in here and he finally did with Ozzie.

now if he can get the Japanese 2B, it will have been an awesome offseason.

:dtroll: :supernana:

HomeFish
01-07-2005, 08:53 AM
I think you will be unpleasantly surprised with the new offense. Podsednik is a career minor leaguer who hit .244 last year, and Uribe and Rowand (and Harris, for that matter) are coming off years where they performed far better than they historically have. Below AJ, this batting order will be all instant outs.

soltrain21
01-07-2005, 08:58 AM
I think you will be unpleasantly surprised with the new offense. Podsednik is a career minor leaguer who hit .244 last year, and Uribe and Rowand (and Harris, for that matter) are coming off years where they performed far better than they historically have. Below AJ, this batting order will be all instant outs.


So since Pods had a bad year he will repeat, but since Rowand and Uribe had good years they won't repeat?




I love your logic.

mantis1212
01-07-2005, 09:02 AM
The most significant change by far if five starters. Our fifth starter last was what, 3-15 or something? Now, assuming everyone stays healthy, the fifth starter should be a .500 pitcher, giving us 5 or 6 games right there.

veeter
01-07-2005, 09:06 AM
I think you will be unpleasantly surprised with the new offense. Podsednik is a career minor leaguer who hit .244 last year, and Uribe and Rowand (and Harris, for that matter) are coming off years where they performed far better than they historically have. Below AJ, this batting order will be all instant outs. Man are you negative. How could Rowand not perform better, they finally let him play?! Same for Uribe and Harris they both had increases in playing time! Who do you feel will hit below A.J.? Harris?(.260 hardly an instant out), Crede? an instant out, I don't think so. Pods has two full years in the MAJOR LEAGUES!!! I'm realistic with this team, they have some flaws but so does every team. Comments like yours are pure speculation and negativity.

Dan H
01-07-2005, 09:31 AM
I feel much better about the team than three weeks ago, but there are nagging issues. When is Frank Thomas coming back and how good will he be? Is the Sox leadoff hitter going to bat .240 or .280? Is the pitching staff emotionally and phsycially healthy enough to be consistent? Just how good is the defense at short and second?

There is room for optimism but also for also for concern. All I can really say at this point is that this offseason was better than the last one.

SoxxoS
01-07-2005, 09:42 AM
I think you will be unpleasantly surprised with the new offense. Podsednik is a career minor leaguer who hit .244 last year, and Uribe and Rowand (and Harris, for that matter) are coming off years where they performed far better than they historically have. Below AJ, this batting order will be all instant outs.
Once again, thanks for nothing. Can I have the 15 seconds of my life it took me to that crap back?

rdivaldi
01-07-2005, 09:44 AM
So since Pods had a bad year he will repeat, but since Rowand and Uribe had good years they won't repeat?
What he said...

RKMeibalane
01-07-2005, 09:47 AM
I think you will be unpleasantly surprised with the new offense. Podsednik is a career minor leaguer who hit .244 last year, and Uribe and Rowand (and Harris, for that matter) are coming off years where they performed far better than they historically have. Below AJ, this batting order will be all instant outs.
:prozac

RKMeibalane
01-07-2005, 09:48 AM
Once again, thanks for nothing. Can I have the 15 seconds of my life it took me to that crap back?
Well said.

34 Inch Stick
01-07-2005, 10:51 AM
I will give KW all the credit in the world in having a vision and then restructuring the team to match that vision. If you look at this off season, the moves have been revolutionary (for this team). At the same time he has brought them in under budget.

The questionable part is whether his vision of the club is a winning vision. We are a faster team, with less power but we play in a stadium where power rules. If we had simply solved the #5 problem while retaining the power, would we have been in a better position? This is a rhetorical question as I really do not know the answer.

Baby Fisk
01-07-2005, 10:53 AM
Man are you negative. How could Rowand not perform better, they finally let him play?! Same for Uribe and Harris they both had increases in playing time! Who do you feel will hit below A.J.? Harris?(.260 hardly an instant out), Crede? an instant out, I don't think so. Pods has two full years in the MAJOR LEAGUES!!! I'm realistic with this team, they have some flaws but so does every team. Comments like yours are pure speculation and negativity.Homefish is the *official* doomsday naysayer of WSI. Any glimmer of hope will be crushed by his relentless pessimism. One wonders why he gets out of bed in the morning, because his day is bound to be filled with self-fulfilling disappointments. I suspect he's one of those "goth" kids. :cool:

I for one am shocked -- yes, shocked! -- by Kenny's productive off-season and feel much more hopeful for 2005 than I did a couple of months ago. Good Job, KW.

Mickster
01-07-2005, 11:13 AM
Homefish is the *official* doomsday naysayer of WSI. Any glimmer of hope will be crushed by his relentless pessimism. One wonders why he gets out of bed in the morning, because his day is bound to be filled with self-fulfilling disappointments. I suspect he's one of those "goth" kids. :cool:
http://www.80s.com/saveferris/images/cam/dying.jpg
Homefish = Cameron????

CubKilla
01-07-2005, 11:16 AM
I'm excited about all the changes. I'm excited the Sox finally have a 5th starter..... on paper at least. I'm excited to see how a Sox team built around hits and speed will do considering a Sox team built around power was almost consistently an also-ran who experienced extreme bouts of CorpseBall.

But I think it's a HUGE stretch to call the '05 Sox better than the '01-'04 Sox before 1-game has been played by the '05 Sox.

mweflen
01-07-2005, 11:17 AM
I think Homefish is just reacting to the unbridled optimism that seems to be spreading. Personally, I'm optimistic, but not 'unbridled.' There are some big question marks:

Can Duque avoid injury? Can Contreras learn to trust his heater? Is Garcia too much of a flyball pitcher for the US Cellular Launching Pad? Has the AL figured Shingo out? Can Dye avoid injury? Will Frank ever return to even 2002 form? Can Rowand and Uribe remain consistent? Can Podsednik hit for average again? Is Pierzynski a headcase on the downturn? Will Crede figure it out? Can Willie learn to steal, without simultaneously forgetting how to hit again?

However, these questions are much more pleasant to ask than last years' questions, which were all of the "will we find ANYONE to contibrute at position X/Y/Z?", "can all our guys get hot at the same time?", and "Can we hope the the Twins royally screw up?" variety.

All in all, an improvement, because we're questioning talent we have, not questioning whether we'll ever have it at all.

Baby Fisk
01-07-2005, 11:18 AM
http://www.80s.com/saveferris/images/cam/dying.jpg
Homefish = Cameron????
There's a tag waiting to be made there. :cool:

CubKilla
01-07-2005, 11:21 AM
I think Homefish is just reacting to the unbridled optimism that seems to be spreading. Personally, I'm optimistic, but not 'unbridled.' There are some big question marks:

Can Duque avoid injury? Can Contreras learn to trust his heater? Is Garcia too much of a flyball pitcher for the US Cellular Launching Pad? Has the AL figured Shingo out? Can Dye avoid injury? Will Frank ever return to even 2002 form? Can Rowand and Uribe remain consistent? Can Podsednik hit for average again? Is Pierzynski a headcase on the downturn? Will Crede figure it out? Can Willie learn to steal, without simultaneously forgetting how to hit again?

However, these questions are much more pleasant to ask than last years' questions, which were all of the "will we find ANYONE to contibrute at position X/Y/X?" and "can all our guys get hot at the same time?" variety.

All in all, an improvement, because we're questioning talent we have, not questioning whether we'll ever have it at all.
Great post. Reading alot of the posts here lately you'd think they should just cancel the '05 season and give the White Sox the WS Trophy. As excited as I am by all the changes KW has set forth, there are still plenty of question marks that put the pessimism to my optimism.

mweflen
01-07-2005, 11:26 AM
Great post. Reading alot of the posts here lately you'd think they should just cancel the '05 season and give the White Sox the WS Trophy. As excited as I am by all the changes KW has set forth, there are still plenty of question marks that put the pessimism to my optimism.
I think, all in all, this will be a fun club to watch, and it will be more consistent. Whether it's consistently so-so or consistently great remains to be seen.

Mickster
01-07-2005, 11:31 AM
Great post. Reading alot of the posts here lately you'd think they should just cancel the '05 season and give the White Sox the WS Trophy. As excited as I am by all the changes KW has set forth, there are still plenty of question marks that put the pessimism to my optimism.
Will RJ's knee hold up? Will Sheffield's shoulder preform well after off-season surgery? Will Jaret Wright's shoulder/elbow hold up? Will Kevin Brown hold up? Will Giambi come back to form? Will A-Rod play like a $25MM player? Will Bernie Williams make it 1 more year as a CF w/o a viable backup? Will they have a decent bullpen outside of Rivera/Gordon? Is Womack a 1 year wonder or will he return to his career average? Will Pavano repeat his '04 performance or return to earth in the AL?

See.... It's easy, and fun, to ask all sorts of questions with ANY team. :cool:

DumpJerry
01-07-2005, 11:39 AM
Here is a sign that we are in for a special season we will remember for the ages: Last night I saw a buddy of mine who is a Flub fan who actually knows about baseball (yes, one of the five Flub fans on Planet Earth who understands the game). I proclaimed to him "we got ourselves a catcher today!" He agreed. The said said "The Sox this year are gonna.........." and he could not finish the thought as his face was turning green with envy. I know I have a had time saying anything remotely positive about the Flubs, so I can appreciate his effort. He also agreed with me that the Flubs, with only 8 guys (including Scammy) left over from two years ago are not in for a fun season.

I'm thinking we have five starters who will average 15 wins each this season amongst them provided everyone stays healthy. That gets us 75 wins, now to get another 20 or so from the other guys....

gobears1987
01-07-2005, 11:44 AM
Once again, thanks for nothing. Can I have the 15 seconds of my life it took me to that crap back? What did you expect from Homefish? A sign of hope?

mweflen
01-07-2005, 11:46 AM
Will RJ's knee hold up? Will Sheffield's shoulder preform well after off-season surgery? Will Jaret Wright's shoulder/elbow hold up? Will Kevin Brown hold up? Will Giambi come back to form? Will A-Rod play like a $25MM player? Will Bernie Williams make it 1 more year as a CF w/o a viable backup? Will they have a decent bullpen outside of Rivera/Gordon? Is Womack a 1 year wonder or will he return to his career average? Will Pavano repeat his '04 performance or return to earth in the AL?

See.... It's easy, and fun, to ask all sorts of questions with ANY team. :cool:
Well, let's say that the answers to all these questions, for both the Sox and the Yankees are NO.

Then the question becomes: will management take steps to rectify the situation and remain competitive, or throw some AA or AAA players in to the wolves?

The answer to this question is the answer to why we've been in the playoffs just once since 1993.

Lip Man 1
01-07-2005, 11:52 AM
Dan H.:

Very accurate assesment of things.

My thoughts exactly.

Lip

Mickster
01-07-2005, 11:55 AM
Then the question becomes: will management take steps to rectify the situation and remain competitive, or throw some AA or AAA players in to the wolves?
That is not the question..... Unfortunately, we know the answer.

mweflen
01-07-2005, 12:01 PM
That is not the question..... Unfortunately, we know the answer.
Mickster - so what is the question? Are we getting too abstract here? :?:

Mickster
01-07-2005, 12:04 PM
Mickster - so what is the question? Are we getting too abstract here? :?:
Trying to compare the '04 Sox to the '05 Sox is certainly much different than comparing the Yankees and White Sox ownership and payroll situations. At least this is the way I understood things....

mweflen
01-07-2005, 12:12 PM
Trying to compare the '04 Sox to the '05 Sox is certainly much different than comparing the Yankees and White Sox ownership and payroll situations. At least this is the way I understood things.... Okay, I follow you here.

Comparing the Sox to the Yankees, with their disparate ownerships, media deals, fan bases, etc., is certainly not "fair." But "fair" doesn't mean a hill of beans when it comes down to the year end standings.

So the long and the short of it is, if the Yankees suffer a setback midseason, they take steps to rectify it. If the Sox suffer similarly, they almost always throw their hands up and say "what can we do?", with a predictable result - another 2nd or 3rd place finish. This is not to mention the disparate nature of initial pre-spring-training staffing for the two teams.

From a "fairness" standpoint, of course you can argue that the Yankees are operating from a much more favorable position to positively rectify problems. But a long-suffering Sox fan might also be tempted to argue the "you have to spend something to get something" line, which is the way I lean. Until Sox management proves itself to be truly dedicated to winning, people are going to tend to be lukewarm in their support. You had better believe that Yankees fans would not be so gung-ho and supportive in attendance if their ownership were more like, say, the Mets, who share many of the same advantages, but generally have stupider ownership.

Mickster
01-07-2005, 12:17 PM
Okay, I follow you here.

Comparing the Sox to the Yankees, with their disparate ownerships, media deals, fan bases, etc., is certainly not "fair." But "fair" doesn't mean a hill of beans when it comes down to the year end standings.

So the long and the short of it is, if the Yankees suffer a setback midseason, they take steps to rectify it. If the Sox suffer similarly, they almost always throw their hands up and say "what can we do?", with a predictable result - another 2nd or 3rd place finish. This is not to mention the disparate nature of initial pre-spring-training staffing for the two teams.

From a "fairness" standpoint, of course you can argue that the Yankees are operating from a much more favorable position to positively rectify problems. But a long-suffering Sox fan might also be tempted to argue the "you have to spend something to get something" line, which is the way I lean. Until Sox management proves itself to be truly dedicated to winning, people are going to tend to be lukewarm in their support. You had better believe that Yankees fans would not be so gung-ho and supportive in attendance if their ownership were more like, say, the Mets, who share many of the same advantages, but generally have stupider ownership.
I feel the same way. :smile:

HebrewHammer
01-07-2005, 12:33 PM
If nothing else this team has officially become interesting.

We've now got a legitimate leadoff guy, no more putting a square peg in a round hole.

A catcher who isn't a black hole, I was convinced that if Ben Davis was the starter he'd manage to hit 210 if lucky.

Added 2 guys that I trust out of the bullpen. The only two trustables we had last year were Shingo and Damaso, everyone else scared me. I tried to like Politte, but he was prone to the gopher ball.

We've dumped Valentin, the loss of his moustache will effect this team, but it will be supplemented by the loss of his paycheck, bat and hands.

When was the last time our rotation, from top to bottom, was this good? We gave up a few prospects for Freddy, but for what we're paying him, he is a steal. Show me another legitimate ace earning less than 10 million.

Jermaine Dye was another absolute steal, a middle of the order run producer with a great glove and a pulse for 5 million bucks, again show me another player like this anywhere in the MLB.

SoxFan48
01-07-2005, 12:58 PM
So since Pods had a bad year he will repeat, but since Rowand and Uribe had good years they won't repeat?




I love your logic.
Everything and everybody regresses toward a mean--that is the law of statistics like or not. Look at the careers of Pods, Rowand and Uribe and then tell me what the direction of the directions of their future years in baseball.

mweflen
01-07-2005, 01:11 PM
Everything and everybody regresses toward a mean--that is the law of statistics like or not. Look at the careers of Pods, Rowand and Uribe and then tell me what the direction of the directions of their future years in baseball.
that may be true, but if the mean has not yet been established, it's hard to predict future statistical results. We're talking about human beings with evolving skill levels, not spins on a roulette wheel.

the_valenstache
01-07-2005, 01:15 PM
We've dumped Valentin, the loss of his moustache will effect this team, but it will be supplemented by the loss of his paycheck, bat and hands.


I heard Joe Cowley is putting the finishing touches on an article about how Jose's 'stache was a clubhouse cancer. Apparently, Paulie's goatee and Buehrle's sideburns were overheard complaining about its commitment to establishing the Sox as one of the premier interesting-facial-hair teams in the league.

Frater Perdurabo
01-07-2005, 01:18 PM
Dan H.:

Very accurate assesment of things.

My thoughts exactly.

Lip

I agree that they Sox have several areas of concern. However, what team doesn't have questions? Even the Yankees have concerns. That's why they play the season and don't reward the WS trophy on January 7.

santo=dorf
01-07-2005, 01:18 PM
I heard Joe Cowley is putting the finishing touches on an article about how Jose's 'stache was a clubhouse cancer. Apparently, Paulie's goatee and Buehrle's sideburns were overheard complaining about its commitment to establishing the Sox as one of the premier interesting-facial-hair teams in the league.
Did you actual think that the Sox clubhouse could withstand both Jose's stache and Hermanson's sideburns? :)

santo=dorf
01-07-2005, 01:23 PM
Great post. Reading alot of the posts here lately you'd think they should just cancel the '05 season and give the White Sox the WS Trophy. As excited as I am by all the changes KW has set forth, there are still plenty of question marks that put the pessimism to my optimism.
And who made all of the posts killa? :rolleyes:

Take a look at this pathetic thread: http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=41198

As I have stated before, come April I am going to go back through all of these threads and, while in pain that the Sox did nothing substantial in the offseason, remind all optimists that I was right.

Nevertheless, go White Sox, as always!
And how right you were Kittle!!

Baby Fisk
01-07-2005, 01:55 PM
Take a look at this pathetic thread: http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=41198
Wow, what a brutal thread. I'm shocked -- shocked! -- that I had nothing to do with it.

If anything, that thread exemplifies how frustrated and antsy everyone was a mere three months ago.

maurice
01-07-2005, 02:29 PM
I'm very happy with the depth of the current pitching staff and don't object to the concept of wholesale changes. In fact, I've been pushing for KW to make drastic changes for a couple of years now. I'm pleased with most of his recent moves and am cautiously optimistic headed into Tucson. That might not sound like a particularly positive attitde, but it's a helluva improvement over last offseason -- when I cancelled my season tix and started a thread entitled "***, KW?"

rdivaldi
01-07-2005, 02:51 PM
Everything and everybody regresses toward a mean--that is the law of statistics like or not. Look at the careers of Pods, Rowand and Uribe and then tell me what the direction of the directions of their future years in baseball.
I can't agree with that at all, especially with young players. There are waaay too many variables to simply say that all players will move towards a mean performance. Changing coaches, steroids, injuries, personal crises, etc.

Randar68
01-07-2005, 03:20 PM
Everything and everybody regresses toward a mean--that is the law of statistics like or not. Look at the careers of Pods, Rowand and Uribe and then tell me what the direction of the directions of their future years in baseball.
Wannabe stat-heads are the worst kind because they have absolutely no freaking clue what they're talking about but pass it off as common knowledge among fellow stat-geeks...

Lip Man 1
01-07-2005, 08:07 PM
Frater:

Except history has shown the Sox have more questions then any other team that dares to call themselves a 'contender.' (even in the Comedy Central division.)

Lip

batmanZoSo
01-07-2005, 08:44 PM
So since Pods had a bad year he will repeat, but since Rowand and Uribe had good years they won't repeat?
Yeah, that's called "we're all gonna die some day" logic.

batmanZoSo
01-07-2005, 08:51 PM
And who made all of the posts killa? :rolleyes:

Take a look at this pathetic thread: http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=41198


And how right you were Kittle!! First, that thread really captures how we all felt at the end of last season. A compounding of the last four years of underachievement, frustration, bad moves, and lack of moves. I think it's safe to say by October of 04, we'd all about had it. And I find it funny that that's how bad it has to get for the Sox to go out and do things right. I'm not seeking to trash the front office here, because they did do everything right and I'm very happy, but the point should be made. Why didn't they do all this two years ago? It takes this franchise a long time to give up on things. I guess the honeymoon of 2000 finally ended--we weren't that great after all, that style of play is not the way to go after all.