PDA

View Full Version : Does Anybody At All Here Like Reinsdorf?


JUribe1989
01-04-2005, 03:44 PM
Almost everything I see hear makes me think that everyone here hates JR. I hope I'm not hated when I say this. I don't mind Jerry at all, in fact I like him. I wrote him a letter once about how much I liked the team with some questions and stuff and he was very nice about everything to me. He even let me be bat boy for a game in spring training.

So I was just wondering, does anybody here like JR? Or at least does anyone not hate him?

Tekijawa
01-04-2005, 03:45 PM
I bet with in two posts this ends up in the road house... these newbies like playing with Fire and Gasoline on some of their threads...:)

NSSoxFan2
01-04-2005, 03:50 PM
I bet with in two posts this ends up in the road house... these newbies like playing with Fire and Gasoline on some of their threads...:)
Why Tekijawa? "Newbies" are just as knowledgable about everything Sox and WSI as you are.

I for one think this thread is great. I am 50/50 on Reinsy. But recently it is becoming apparent that he(and all his fellow investors), are just trying to win by trying to find diamonds in the rough. This constitutes two things, if we have a succesful season they will make A LOT of money, if we have an average team, they will break even or earn a small profit.

JUribe1989
01-04-2005, 03:51 PM
I'm very sorry. I had no idea this thread might end up in the roadhouse. I never would have made it if I knew that. Back to JR, I don't think he's trying to lose like some people think.

konerko1413
01-04-2005, 03:55 PM
I hate him, this has been said in almost every other thread about him "he's only about 25% of the problem with the sox not makin it to the world series" (all our owners have sucked except Veck, but he had no money) I dont care if the sox play in a park district as long as were good enough,

STOP SPENDING MONEY ON THE PARK AND SPEND SOME MONEY ON THE TEAM!:angry:

Tekijawa
01-04-2005, 03:55 PM
Why Tekijawa? "Newbies" are just as knowledgable about everything Sox and WSI as you are.
I'm not Questioning that it's just thread like this usually end up with 2-3 people added to someones ignore list, Hangar Missing 2 weeks of work (Although I haven't figured out if he even has a Job or if he's just the official baseball watcher of the WhiteSox) Arguing about how bad Jerry an Kenny are and myself laughing at the whole thing...

Jerome
01-04-2005, 03:57 PM
I like that he spent a lot of money on the Bulls in the Dynasty. (Not including Pippen's Uncle Scrooge long-term contract).

I don't like that with the White Sox, we always get inexperieced front office because they are cheaper. (JM, KW, Ozzie).

That's why I don't agree with a lot of the fire KW posters. If KW was fired, we'd just get another rookie GM.

zach074
01-04-2005, 03:59 PM
Almost everything I see hear makes me think that everyone here hates JR. I hope I'm not hated when I say this. I don't mind Jerry at all, in fact I like him. I wrote him a letter once about how much I liked the team with some questions and stuff and he was very nice about everything to me. He even let me be bat boy for a game in spring training.

So I was just wondering, does anybody here like JR? Or at least does anyone not hate him?
I like the fact that he didnt move the team.

JUribe1989
01-04-2005, 04:03 PM
Wow I was really wrong, a lot of people here don't hate him. They may dislike him, but they do agree with some things he did.

1917
01-04-2005, 04:05 PM
I respect him as a business man. He didn't get where he is today by making stupid decesions. Granted we call all say SPEND SPEND SPEND....but if we were given the keys to his Kingdom, I think we would all feel the heat he feels. We have a 70 million dollar payroll. We don't sell out half the games...whose fault is that? It's ours...the Sox Fans....we choose not to go while those queers up North sell out all there games win or lose....Have you ever been to Fenway? Fenway is a great old ball park, but you can't do anything in there.....NO BEER VENDORS anywhere in the seating areas (you have to wait in line to get flat tap and you can't even see the game) you can't smoke anywhere in the ball park, it's against the law....you go and watch the game....and they are sold out until 2020. You can do whatever you want at the Cell, smoke, drink, go to the bar, and never miss a beat, but it still lays empty half the time....but JR still forks over the most he can to put the best team on the field....and I'm at fault too, I only go to 20 or so a year, I turn down tickets...but I shouldn't!!!

Palehose13
01-04-2005, 04:07 PM
I don't hate him. I've never met him, so I can't say if I like him or not. I don't think that he is pure evil like many suggest. Something that will upset some people though...is that I really, really like Kenny Williams. I hope I didn't lose any friends by typing that. :unsure:


STOP SPENDING MONEY ON THE PARK AND SPEND SOME MONEY ON THE TEAM!:angry:
Um...IIRC, the money he got from US Cellular for naming rights can only be used towards the ballpark.

Palehose13
01-04-2005, 04:09 PM
Wow I was really wrong, a lot of people here don't hate him. They may dislike him, but they do agree with some things he did.
IMO, the people that hate him...REALLY HATE HIM and are very vocal about it. I'm neither here nor there, so I don't waste keystrokes one way or the other.

MUsoxfan
01-04-2005, 04:14 PM
I don't mind him. There are some policies he has I disagree with, but I genuinely feel he wants a winner. And Konerko1413, he's improving the park because it really needed to be improved....hence U.S. Cellular Field. That's $60m he got solely for the purpose of improving the park. Money from U.S. Cellular was never intended for payroll, and money intended for payroll isn't going into improving the park

Flight #24
01-04-2005, 04:14 PM
Um...IIRC, the money he got from US Cellular for naming rights can only be used towards the ballpark.
Why should any actual facts come into play here?

steff
01-04-2005, 04:17 PM
STOP SPENDING MONEY ON THE PARK AND SPEND SOME MONEY ON THE TEAM!:angry:


He doesn't.

Baby Fisk
01-04-2005, 04:25 PM
It's one thing to hate a person (perhaps because of something they've done to you personally); it's another to hate what they do (or are perceived to do). Oh who am I kidding...

:threadsucks

Hangar18
01-04-2005, 04:28 PM
I dont have anything Personal against old Uncle Jerry.
Its his Actions and Inactions that have SingleHandedly helped the SOX
avoid the World Series, despite 3 Glorious Windows of Opportunity to do so.
Not many teams get those chances. Oh, and his Cavalier attitude
towards fans and the fact he doesnt care that we think hes the problem.

Things like telling the Fans to Shut Up, and Cheer for the Cubs,
and best yet, Come Out to the Park, and we'll put a better team (implying theyd raise payroll) yet somehow Playing Shell Games and Conning us again.

Wouldnt it be something if this 2005 non-hitting team won it all anyway ....
Despite Jerrys attempts to prevent us from getting to the Series?
What a story this team would make in October :D:

voodoochile
01-04-2005, 04:29 PM
Reinsdorf the person seems alright. He is loyal to the people who are loyal to him. I respect that.

Reinsdorf the owner needs to sell.

Hate is too strong a word. I just don't respect the way he runs the team. But, I'm a fan, not a partial investor, so I admit that I am biased... Totally biased actually. Some might even say I am Petty - not Tom Petty, utterly petty. In fact, I've been called completely unobjective at times and I can't say that I disagree... :D:

SoxFanTillDeath
01-04-2005, 04:45 PM
I know it's off subject, but I really like KW. He's a very aggressive GM, which will mean that you will win some and lose some, but he is always willing to make a move if he thinks it will help this team. If he says he's going to do something, you know he's going to do it. You may not agree with him, but you can't fault the guy for trying, because on paper his moves all make perfect sense when he makes them. (Anyone bringing up the Lee trade needs to realize that he traded Lee for Pods/Vizcaino/El Duque/A.J. or Cora or Iguchi or two of the three.)

I don't have a problem with JR. I dislike him more for what he did to the bulls, and I wouldn't mind it if he opened up his pockets a little more for the Sox, but he has increased payroll significantly over the past few years and that is exactly what I and other sox fans had been asking for. Are we happy? No, we want more. JR is only a fall guy because we sox fans don't know who else to blame for our team's ineptitude.

ChiWhiteSox1337
01-04-2005, 05:10 PM
Jerry Reinsdorf is a great man, not a great owner IMO, but a great person. We always hear about the sox donating $$ to make a little league field and other things like that. I never hear about the Cubs or other MLB teams doing that.

ja1022
01-04-2005, 05:15 PM
I don't get involved in much of the KW or JR bashing. By the same token, I don't get too involved in threads that support them either. My take on it is they're the GM and Owner whether I like it or not, so I try not to waste alot of time worrying about it. As a White Sox fan I just hope they both do their jobs successfully and that translates into a team that's competitive and worthy of the support it gets from the real Sox faithful.

MUsoxfan
01-04-2005, 05:33 PM
Some might even say I am Petty - not Tom Petty, utterly petty. In fact, I've been called completely unobjective at times and I can't say that I disagree... :D:

Where's that "Ask Farmio" thread that I loved soo much

DumpJerry
01-04-2005, 05:33 PM
Hate Uncle Jerry? Naw. I don't hate or despise the guy. I just think he is the Anti-Christ.

The person who started this thread was born after the Years of Tyranny started, so he would not know how it feels to go to a White Sox game where the owner works to get you there and makes sure you enjoy the experience (Veeck). What are the crimes against Humanity Jerry has committed? Too many to list, so I'll give you the big ones:

Sportchannel
Harry Carey to the Urinal
Fisk retirement
Tore down the Baseball Palace in an effort to move the team to Florida.
Lobbied against the bill authorizing the construction of the new ballpark which meant he could not move to Florida (this is from my parents' State Representative who is a family friend. His lobbyists were working to kill the bill up till the last minute.:angry: )
Gallas and his marketing scheme which has allowed the Cubs to rename the city "Cubago."
Turned down the plans for what became Camden Yards for the BallMall we need to convince ourselves each season is a "nice" ballpark. Go to Camden or the Jake and you will really hate this guy. Both parks were done by the same architecture firm as Comiskey.
Refusal to do what it takes to win.
Inept record at sports management (look at the Bulls. When he bought them, Michael was an unsigned draftee. Imagine how they would have been in the 80's and 90's without Michael, that's the Jerry ownership skill set at work).
Sportschannel.
There is a lot more, but I think you get the idea.

pearso66
01-04-2005, 05:36 PM
i dont think reinsdorf is a bad guy. i think the problem is that he is also invested into the bulls. if he would drop out of the bulls and use the money he puts into them on the sox, i think that would make a difference :bandance:

eastchicagosoxfan
01-04-2005, 06:29 PM
I wonder if JR is passionate about owning the White Sox? In 25 years of ownership, has he ever come out and said he was throwing caution to the wind, and putting out the cash to get a winner? The Albert Belle signing aside, he is always looking for " smart " ways to get quality players. I think the 1983 team has affected his outlook. So many players had the best season of their career that year, ( Dot, Kitty, R. Law, Floyd the Barber, Salome, Dewey, ) that he expects otherwise good ballplayers to have extraoridinary saesons with his teams.

BRDSR
01-04-2005, 06:29 PM
By the by, does anyone know how Reinsdorf made his money in the first place? I mean, he's obviously done well for himself while owning the Bulls and the Sox, but you can't exactly take out a second mortgage to pay for them in the first place, you know? What business was he in to begin with?

As far as whether I like him...who cares? If I had millions of dollars to invest in a baseball team, I might do things differently. On the other hand, maybe I wouldn't, I don't know. I honestly believe that he's a genuine baseball fan and that he ponied up millions of dollars to buy the White Sox because he was interested in seeing a world championship on the south side. If I ever have enough money I will definitely make him an offer though. I want to see a world championship too!

Daver
01-04-2005, 06:32 PM
Jerry Reinsdorf made his fortune in real estate.

BRDSR
01-04-2005, 06:33 PM
Jerry Reinsdorf made his fortune in real estate.
I think I've found my new calling...

twsoxfan5
01-04-2005, 06:41 PM
Konerko 1413 i think before you yell about how money is spent and put up this face-:angry:. You must be informed that the money that is being put into the park comes from the contract that we signed with US Cellular. That money can not be spent on players, which is what I originally thought, but it can only be used on things such as improving the field. I like that they are using the money on the field because with in the last couple of years the improvements that have been made, make the ballpark a more enjoyable place and I feel like it will only get better.

MUsoxfan
01-04-2005, 06:45 PM
Bill Wirtz is a real estate guy too. He always made more money off real estate than the Blackhawks. You can only imagine how much money he has buried away.

:dollarbill:

"I don't want championships. They cost too much money."

Paulwny
01-04-2005, 06:45 PM
I think I've found my new calling...
JR started out as an IRS tax attorney. I'm sure he was able to see all the tax loop-holes in real estate and other ventures.

konerko1413
01-04-2005, 06:45 PM
Konerko 1413 i think before you yell about how money is spent and put up this face-:angry:. You must be informed that the money that is being put into the park comes from the contract that we signed with US Cellular. That money can not be spent on players, which is what I originally thought, but it can only be used on things such as improving the field. I like that they are using the money on the field because with in the last couple of years the improvements that have been made, make the ballpark a more enjoyable place and I feel like it will only get better.
he was spending money on the park before the us cellular deal, while we were losing players like mcdowell, ventura, colon...
look if i could put an emphasis on a part of a sentance while typing, the emphasis would have been over the spend on the team part, all i was tryin to get at was that he doesnt spend enough money

MUsoxfan
01-04-2005, 06:46 PM
Konerko 1413 i think before you yell about how money is spent and put up this face-:angry:. You must be informed that the money that is being put into the park comes from the contract that we signed with US Cellular. That money can not be spent on players, which is what I originally thought, but it can only be used on things such as improving the field. I like that they are using the money on the field because with in the last couple of years the improvements that have been made, make the ballpark a more enjoyable place and I feel like it will only get better.
Thank you for rewording my earlier post. :wink:

MUsoxfan
01-04-2005, 06:47 PM
he was spending money on the park before the us cellular deal, while we were losing players like mcdowell, ventura, colon...
What improvements were those? Nothing signifigant. Light bulbs need to be changed regardless of corporate sponsorship

SuperSteve
01-04-2005, 06:54 PM
I do not mind the guy. I enjoy watching something he owns. If he wanted, I am sure we could have a $40 million payroll. I'd love to have a beer with him, hear some good stories.

I really hope he loses money and goes in to debt, just so we can get a WS ring.

voodoochile
01-04-2005, 06:57 PM
Bill Wirtz is a real estate guy too. He always made more money off real estate than the Blackhawks. You can only imagine how much money he has buried away.

:dollarbill:

"I don't want championships. They cost too much money."
The Wirtz family is serious old-school money. At one time they owned ALL of the private land from like North Avenue to Belmont as far east as you can go before hitting public land. All those hi-rises were paying rent to them. I have no idea how true that stil is.

Big Bucks! I mean BIG BUCKS!

soxnut
01-04-2005, 07:00 PM
I don't hate JR either. And I was around when he first owned the team. Hey, it's just baseball, and hating someone just because you don't like and can't control their actions is ridiculous. What's done is done, and the Sox are still here. And as long as they are here, I shall root for them and love them. I don't care who owns the team.

cubhater
01-04-2005, 07:45 PM
Lobbied against the bill authorizing the construction of the new ballpark which meant he could not move to Florida (this is from my parents' State Representative who is a family friend. His lobbyists were working to kill the bill up till the last minute.:angry: )
.
You got to be kidding, right?

OTOH, it wouldn't surprise me.

Lip Man 1
01-04-2005, 07:52 PM
Uncle Jerry is a brilliant business man, extremely wealthy and very sharp. As a baseball owner, as someone who is supposed to market his franchise and someone who is supposed to have a better sense of positive PR he is badly lacking.

That has severly crippled the franchise that he is supposed to be running.

"Our goal is to have a team that is a contender every year."– Jerry Reinsdorf to the Chicago Sun - Times’ Ray Sons. September 18, 1983.

"We feel we owe this town a winner or a contender every year." – Jerry Reinsdorf to the Chicago media, October 2, 1985. From the book ‘Through Hope And Despair’ by Dan Helpingstein. Pg. 144. Published 2001.

"You can’t win today, if you’re going to do it like Calvin Griffith (Minnesota) or Bill Veeck did. But there is no guarantee you are going to win if you spend a lot of money – if you’re not smart about it." – Jerry Reinsdorf to the Chicago Sun - Times’ Ray Sons. September 18, 1983.

"I’ve literally made hundreds of millions of dollars of deals in my life on handshakes. My word means everything to me and I have never, ever given a guy a second chance to get even with me."–Jerry Reinsdorf to Melissa Issacson. From the book ‘Transition Game’ by Melissa Issacson. Pg.79. Published 1994.

"I always loved sports, and I made enough money from the sale of the company that I didn't need to do something I didn't like. The teams are a significant part of my net worth, but I'm in sports because I love being in sports. I didn't get into sports to make money. I think I've been lucky that during the time I've been involved in sports, the value of sports franchises has gone up." – Jerry Reinsdorf to the Chicago Sun - Times’ Terry Savage. July 30, 2000.

"Wherever you’re at, Harry (Caray) and Jimmy (Piersall), eat your hearts out. I hope people realize what scum you are." – Jerry Reinsdorf to "Hawk" Harrelson on a live TV interview from the White Sox dressing room after clinching the 1983 Western Division Championship. From the book ‘Miracle on 35th Street’ by Bob Logan. Pg. 141. Published 1983.

"Eddie and I never discussed how to talk to reporters. We’ve just been ourselves. I always though Jack Kennedy was the kind of person I looked up to in that regard. He always gave the media a fair shake and understood you guys have a job to do. Without responsible people willing to divulge some accurate information, it’s hard to do it right. It was a much better approach then Nixon, who figured the media was his enemy. Doing it Kennedy’s way just makes a lot more sense to me. After all, nobody can buy the kind of advertising Chicago teams get. What other line of work finds newspapers assigning people to follow you around and write about how the business is doing every day? At Balcor, we have to hire a public relations firm to get our names in the paper. When baseball teams get that for free, it makes sense to cooperate." – Jerry Reinsdorf to Bob Logan. From the book ‘Miracle On 35th Street.’ Pg. 154. Published 1983.

"The idea that I must talk to the media in order to know what is going on with our fans or the public is ludicrous. I communicate with fans on an almost daily basis and often hear comments from people on the street and in the ballpark. We have committed a lot of resources to market research each year, whether it is telephone or internet polling, mall intercepts, focus groups or in-park surveys. We believe these surveys are the most impartial way to hear from our fans. I don't think a media interview gives me the same type of insight into what our fans think and feel. Believe me, our fans tell us. They care and they are passionate. I like that about sports. The fact is that I do speak publicly when there is an issue of importance to our fans and to the franchises. I owe that to our fans. But again, I don't really think people want to hear from me or go to the game to see me. I hope not." – Jerry Reinsdorf quoted on the "official" White Sox web site, www.whitesox.com (http://www.whitesox.com/), August 16, 2004.


"A lot of people say athletes don't deserve to get the money they get, but the one law of economics that has never been repealed is the law of supply and demand. There is a very small supply of athletes who have the ability to play at the major league level in any sport--and the demand is great enough that they command these salaries because that's the law of economics." – Jerry Reinsdorf to the Chicago Sun - Times’ Terry Savage. July 30, 2000.

"I’m a dove, until they strike." ––Jerry Reinsdorf, August 1994. Comment printed in the Chicago newspapers after he spoke with the media from his owners box at Comiskey Park.

"Anyone who thinks this Sox team can catch Cleveland is crazy." – Jerry Reinsdorf to the Chicago media. July 31, 1997.

"The people that criticized us (about the White Flag Trade) were White Sox fans. They criticized us because they thought we were doing the wrong thing. They didn’t criticize us because they didn’t want us to win. Most people today, I’m sure, are as happy as I am, and they’re happy that they were wrong. So all White Sox fans can rejoice." – Jerry Reinsdorf to the Chicago Sun - Times’ Carol Slezak September 25, 2000. Pg. 102.

Finally.....

"They really just are not very good people - people."– Chip Schaefer (on Jerry Reisndorf and Jerry Krause) to Roland Lazenby. From the book ‘Blood On The Horns’ by Roland Lazenby. Pg.72. Published 1998.

Lip

winning ugly 72
01-04-2005, 08:32 PM
i can't stand jerry! please sell the team! :angry:

whitesoxwilkes
01-04-2005, 09:18 PM
The Wirtz family is serious old-school money. At one time they owned ALL of the private land from like North Avenue to Belmont as far east as you can go before hitting public land. All those hi-rises were paying rent to them. I have no idea how true that stil is.

Big Bucks! I mean BIG BUCKS!
Pretty true still. I had a friend who used to live in a building with a "Wirtz Realty and Management" plaque on it, so one day when I was leaving her place, I decided to count how many other buildings had it. There are at least 5 on Sheridan between Belmont and Diversey.

Realist
01-04-2005, 09:30 PM
Hate Uncle Jerry? Naw. I don't hate or despise the guy. I just think he is the Anti-Christ.

The person who started this thread was born after the Years of Tyranny started, so he would not know how it feels to go to a White Sox game where the owner works to get you there and makes sure you enjoy the experience (Veeck). What are the crimes against Humanity Jerry has committed? Too many to list, so I'll give you the big ones:

Sportchannel
Harry Carey to the Urinal
Fisk retirement
Tore down the Baseball Palace in an effort to move the team to Florida.
Lobbied against the bill authorizing the construction of the new ballpark which meant he could not move to Florida (this is from my parents' State Representative who is a family friend. His lobbyists were working to kill the bill up till the last minute.:angry: )
Gallas and his marketing scheme which has allowed the Cubs to rename the city "Cubago."
Turned down the plans for what became Camden Yards for the BallMall we need to convince ourselves each season is a "nice" ballpark. Go to Camden or the Jake and you will really hate this guy. Both parks were done by the same architecture firm as Comiskey.
Refusal to do what it takes to win.
Inept record at sports management (look at the Bulls. When he bought them, Michael was an unsigned draftee. Imagine how they would have been in the 80's and 90's without Michael, that's the Jerry ownership skill set at work).
Sportschannel.
There is a lot more, but I think you get the idea.While I don't hate anybody, I actually kind of liked Uncle Jerry until your post. You make a good argument to "not particularly care for the man very much."

That's a great list of Behaviors Unbecoming of a Sox Fan. I want the owner to be a Sox fan.

Daver
01-04-2005, 09:37 PM
While I don't hate anybody, I actually kind of liked Uncle Jerry until your post. You make a good argument to "not particularly care for the man very much."

That's a great list of Behaviors Unbecoming of a Sox Fan. I want the owner to be a Sox fan.
Do us all a favor and make him an offer.

:)

DumpJerry
01-04-2005, 09:37 PM
Jerry had a real estate investment company which did quite well and he sold to American Express for tons, I mean TONS, of cash. He used the bucks to buy the Sox.

Wirtz family also owns Judge and Dolph, the largest booze distributor around. You see their trucks everywhere.

Obviously, these business ventures do not prepare you for sports management.

WhiteSoxFan84
01-04-2005, 09:46 PM
hate him all you want, he has more money than you, your father, his father, his father, and his father before him combined during your lifetimes. no offense, but he's a business man, he knows what he's doin.

moving along to another topic, when will WSI start enforcing an age limit to post on the boards? lol
i'm thinking along the lines of 18 years of age.

voodoochile
01-04-2005, 09:46 PM
Jerry had a real estate investment company which did quite well and he sold to American Express for tons, I mean TONS, of cash. He used the bucks to buy the Sox.

Wirtz family also owns Judge and Dolph, the largest booze distributor around. You see their trucks everywhere.

Obviously, these business ventures do not prepare you for sports management.
Yeah and the Wirtz's were instrumental in getting legislation killed that would have allowed more than one wholesaler to distribute each brand of liquor in Illinois. So, J&D got to keep their monopoly on several kinds of popular booze and thus artificially inflate the price.

The money spent to buy those votes was insane - and worth every single penny X10.

konerko1413
01-04-2005, 09:52 PM
im not too familiar with wirtz. u guys pretty much agree that he has money and he still has alotta income. the questions u havnt answered are #1- does he have any interest in buying the sox? and #2- would he spend that money on the sox or would he only use the organization for more income?

Realist
01-04-2005, 09:53 PM
Do us all a favor and make him an offer.

:)
I think that nice Sox fan that owns U.S. Cellular Phone Co could make a nice owner. We should all hope that his stock goes through the roof and he ends up buying the team.

ChiWhiteSox1337
01-04-2005, 09:55 PM
im not too familiar with wirtz. u guys pretty much agree that he has money and he still has alotta income. the questions u havnt answered are #1- does he have any interest in buying the sox? and #2- would he spend that money on the sox or would he only use the organization for more income? :bundy
Don't even mention the idea of Wirtz owning the Sox. The guy is quite possibly the cheapest owner in ALL of sports. The ticket prices for blackhawks games are ridiculous, especially for the team they put out there now. They actually used to be a respectable organization and the hottest ticket in town, now they're just forgotten in Chicago and throughout the rest of the country. They don't even show home blackhawk games on TV because the hawks can't draw flies.

MUsoxfan
01-04-2005, 09:55 PM
im not too familiar with wirtz. u guys pretty much agree that he has money and he still has alotta income. the questions u havnt answered are #1- does he have any interest in buying the sox? and #2- would he spend that money on the sox or would he only use the organization for more income?
Wirtz owns the Blackhawks and may possibly be the cheapest owner and one of the worst 5 owners in professional sports. He raises prices but not the quality of product and BRAGS about it. That quote I had under his picture is pretty much an exact quote from him

soxnut
01-04-2005, 09:56 PM
hate him all you want, he has more money than you, your father, his father, his father, and his father before him combined during your lifetimes. no offense, but he's a business man, he knows what he's doin.

moving along to another topic, when will WSI start enforcing an age limit to post on the boards? lol
i'm thinking along the lines of 18 years of age.

Hey guess what? If you don't like a topic, then you should move on, quite honestly. You're under no obligation to respond to everything that's on the board. Then again, maybe you are.............:wink:

Post away, Uribe!!:bandance:

voodoochile
01-04-2005, 09:58 PM
Wirtz owns the Blackhawks and may possibly be the cheapest owner and one of the worst 5 owners in professional sports. He raises prices but not the quality of product and BRAGS about it. That quote I had under his picture is pretty much an exact quote from him
If there's a worse owner than Wirtz, it's news to me.

Bottom 5? Name the 4 who are worse than him.

He makes Reinsdorf look like a saint, but you want to know where JR got the idea to jack up the prices on those premium seats behind home and kick out all the long standing ST holders who didn't want to pay the money, look no further than Dollar Bill who raised the first row of seats at the UC to $250/game/seat a few years back. Some ST holders who had had tickets in that row since the dawn of the NHL were forced to put up or backup...

They just don't care. :?:

Realist
01-04-2005, 09:59 PM
im not too familiar with wirtz. u guys pretty much agree that he has money and he still has alotta income. the questions u havnt answered are #1- does he have any interest in buying the sox? and #2- would he spend that money on the sox or would he only use the organization for more income?Does Wirtz have any interest in buying the Sox???

[3 minute pause between typing sentances because I can't stop my hands from shaking just from reading that question]

OOOOOooohhh, Christ. Somebody please hold me. I'm about to become hysterical. :wired:

I know that there's no crying in baseball, but the day Wirtz bought the White Sox I would shed a lot of very large tears and probably be burning up the phone lines with suicide prevention.

MUsoxfan
01-04-2005, 10:05 PM
If there's a worse owner than Wirtz, it's news to me.

Bottom 5? Name the 4 who are worse than him.


I was gonna say the worst...but....I heard the AZ Cardinals guy is awful....the 49ers guy is awful (may be a clone of Wirtz)....so I just said top 5 to be safe

JUribe1989
01-04-2005, 10:08 PM
Why do you suggest an age limit?? just wondering

FarWestChicago
01-04-2005, 10:09 PM
I was gonna say the worst...but....I heard the AZ Cardinals guy is awful....the 49ers guy is awful (may be a clone of Wirtz)....so I just said top 5 to be safeBidwell (Cards) is horrible. York (Whiners) is McCaskey West. But, Dollar Bill is in a class by himself. http://www.flyingsock.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/frown.gif

konerko1413
01-04-2005, 10:10 PM
thanks

ChiWhiteSox1337
01-04-2005, 10:12 PM
If there were an age limit, my life outside of school would be meaningless. :D: Maybe I could bring up my grades...

soxnut
01-04-2005, 10:13 PM
Why do you suggest an age limit?? just wondering
I think some people think they're above certain topics, and that YOU shouldn't waste THEIR time! God forbid!!:whiner:

Daver
01-04-2005, 10:15 PM
Bill Bidwell has managed to give the term sleazeball owner a whole new definition, in a league that enjoys 100% revenue sharing, along with a hard salary cap and floor, he has managed to make sure his payroll is at the bare minimum, pays a yearly lease to use a college football stadium to save on building one, and laughs all the way to the bank.

Parrothead
01-04-2005, 10:18 PM
Yeah and the Wirtz's were instrumental in getting legislation killed that would have allowed more than one wholesaler to distribute each brand of liquor in Illinois. So, J&D got to keep their monopoly on several kinds of popular booze and thus artificially inflate the price.

The money spent to buy those votes was insane - and worth every single penny X10.
I thought that law was repealed a while ago.

WhiteSoxFan84
01-04-2005, 10:19 PM
Why do you suggest an age limit?? just wondering
Meant to be a joke, haha :?:

gosox41
01-04-2005, 10:49 PM
I like that he spent a lot of money on the Bulls in the Dynasty. (Not including Pippen's Uncle Scrooge long-term contract).

I don't like that with the White Sox, we always get inexperieced front office because they are cheaper. (JM, KW, Ozzie).

That's why I don't agree with a lot of the fire KW posters. If KW was fired, we'd just get another rookie GM.
This has been discussed before. Plenty of teams have hired rookie GM's inclduing the Yankees and Cashman.


Bob

gosox41
01-04-2005, 10:52 PM
Bill Wirtz is a real estate guy too. He always made more money off real estate than the Blackhawks. You can only imagine how much money he has buried away.

:dollarbill:

"I don't want championships. They cost too much money."

I thoght Wirtz made his cash in distributing alcohol.


Bob

MUsoxfan
01-04-2005, 10:59 PM
http://chicagobusiness.com/images/random/WhoWirtz.gif
William W. Wirtz
CEO
Wirtz Corp.
President
United Center
Chicago
Age: 74
Business: Liquor distribution, professional hockey, real estate, insurance
Revenues (millions): $1,300 (estimate)
Professional: Alberto-Culver Co.; National Hockey League
(www.crainschicagobusiness.com (http://www.crainschicagobusiness.com) Who's Who in Chicago Business)

MUsoxfan
01-04-2005, 11:03 PM
JR's keeping his revenues a secret


http://chicagobusiness.com/images/random/WhoReinsdorf.gif
Jerry M. Reinsdorf
Chairman
Chicago Bulls
Chicago White Sox, Chicago
Age: 68
Business: Professional sports
Revenues (millions): Not available
Professional: Economic Club; Executives' Club
Civic: Commercial Club

Jerome
01-04-2005, 11:11 PM
This has been discussed before. Plenty of teams have hired rookie GM's inclduing the Yankees and Cashman.


Bob
Whoa. I know that there are plenty of good rookie GMs. But don't call Brian Cashman a GM. His job is to decide what position his team doesn't have an All-Star at and then in the offseason be the highest bidder for an All-Star at that position.

I just don't like the fact that when it comes to us getting a new manager or GM, we are already resigned to the fact that he will be a rookie.


And my solution to the JR problem is simple. All WSIers pool all of their money together. That total should come to a couple hundred million. When Uncle Jerry dies/decides to sell, we swoop right in. Selig and the other owners will probably decide to give us a cheap rate because we are such die hard passionate fans.

The baseball decisions will be made by the mods and the posters with like 1000s of posts.

The fewer number of posts you have, the lower down on the scale you are. With my 280 posts, I would probably be an assistant scout or something.

Major transactions would be made by a very very large poll. The best part is this website would cease to exist because there would be no one to bitch and moan about the Sox, because the bitchers and moaners would be the ones calling the shots.

Finally, after a few years (and a few WS rings) JR and KW and Ozzie and JM start a website called formerflyingsock.com, a forum where they talk year-round about their former team.


Post of the week material right? :D:

MUsoxfan
01-04-2005, 11:23 PM
Post of the week material right? :D:

Shameless pandering!

johnny bench
01-04-2005, 11:25 PM
If there's a worse owner than Wirtz, it's news to me.

Bottom 5? Name the 4 who are worse than him.

He makes Reinsdorf look like a saint, but you want to know where JR got the idea to jack up the prices on those premium seats behind home and kick out all the long standing ST holders who didn't want to pay the money, look no further than Dollar Bill who raised the first row of seats at the UC to $250/game/seat a few years back. Some ST holders who had had tickets in that row since the dawn of the NHL were forced to put up or backup...

They just don't care. :?:
Completely agree with you about Wirtz as an owner.

Not sure that the seat prices at the Stadium gave JR the idea on the premium seats though. The new San Diego and Cincinnati parks have almost identical plans to what Comiskey will have starting in '05. When I saw those layouts I knew our days were numbered.

ewokpelts
01-05-2005, 12:35 AM
Almost everything I see hear makes me think that everyone here hates JR. I hope I'm not hated when I say this. I don't mind Jerry at all, in fact I like him. I wrote him a letter once about how much I liked the team with some questions and stuff and he was very nice about everything to me. He even let me be bat boy for a game in spring training.

So I was just wondering, does anybody here like JR? Or at least does anyone not hate him?:reinsy
I have a positive self-image...especially if it's me naked in my money bin!

ChiSox14305635
01-05-2005, 02:38 AM
Wirtz owns the Blackhawks and may possibly be the cheapest owner and one of the worst 5 owners in professional sports. He raises prices but not the quality of product and BRAGS about it. That quote I had under his picture is pretty much an exact quote from him
ESPN did a ranking of all the professional teams in the 4 major sports (when hockey was still considered one) and what team came up dead last, #120 than your Chicago Blackhawks.

I don't follow hockey too much, but not broadcasting their home games is a slap in the face to all the Blackhawk fans.

steff
01-05-2005, 05:10 AM
he was spending money on the park before the us cellular deal, while we were losing players like mcdowell, ventura, colon...
look if i could put an emphasis on a part of a sentance while typing, the emphasis would have been over the spend on the team part, all i was tryin to get at was that he doesnt spend enough money


No, he wasn't. The Sox rent the Cell. They don't pay for renovations at all. The ISA is in charge of those projects and the tax fund from the hotel tax pays for them.

doublem23
01-05-2005, 06:18 AM
No, he wasn't. The Sox rent the Cell. They don't pay for renovations at all. The ISA is in charge of those projects and the tax fund from the hotel tax pays for them.
Steff, you're killing his argument with all these facts.

TornLabrum
01-05-2005, 07:29 AM
No, he wasn't. The Sox rent the Cell. They don't pay for renovations at all. The ISA is in charge of those projects and the tax fund from the hotel tax pays for them.
I haven't read it for a long time, but as I recall it, the Sox lease stipulates that the ISA must approve all renovations but the Sox must pay for them. That's why they sold the naming rights in the first place.

johnny_mostil
01-05-2005, 07:34 AM
He doesn't. (spend money)
What money? The team is 20-somethingth in attendance even with all the discounts. This ain't the Yanks or Red Sox selling out with $57 tickets. The White Sox don't draw close to capacity in seasons they win the division. There is no more money.

Hitmen77
01-05-2005, 08:20 AM
hate him all you want, he has more money than you, your father, his father, his father, and his father before him combined during your lifetimes. no offense, but he's a business man, he knows what he's doin.
.
Huh? So the more money someone has, the better a person he is and the more we should like him? I'm not saying I hate JR as a person, but your logic of placing value in a person based on their personal fortune is twisted.

TornLabrum
01-05-2005, 08:29 AM
Huh? So the more money someone has, the better a person he is and the more we should like him? I'm not saying I hate JR as a person, but your logic of placing value in a person based on their personal fortune is twisted.
I agree. By that kind of logic, Mr. Potter would be the most beloved figure in Bedford Falls.

voodoochile
01-05-2005, 08:40 AM
:reinsy
I have a positive self-image...especially if it's me naked in my money bin!
*****!

POTW (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=13&id=2724) :)

fledgedrallycap
01-05-2005, 08:42 AM
I for one don't hate Reinsdorf and put most of the blame when things don't pan out on the personel decision makers, field decision makers and players. While individuals can pile on JR for a number of things, many deserved, the Sox do have a payroll that is highest in their own division, which we can't even win... So I feel it's not in the amount of money spent, it's how it's spent.

Not to mention he is loyal (maybe to a fault) and doesn't hide from his critics, appearing on more shows than any owner I have ever seen or heard in this city - and country with exception of a few flakes like Cuban.

Hitmen77
01-05-2005, 08:42 AM
Hate Uncle Jerry? Naw. I don't hate or despise the guy. I just think he is the Anti-Christ.

The person who started this thread was born after the Years of Tyranny started, so he would not know how it feels to go to a White Sox game where the owner works to get you there and makes sure you enjoy the experience (Veeck). What are the crimes against Humanity Jerry has committed? Too many to list, so I'll give you the big ones:

Sportchannel
Harry Carey to the Urinal
Fisk retirement
Tore down the Baseball Palace in an effort to move the team to Florida.
Lobbied against the bill authorizing the construction of the new ballpark which meant he could not move to Florida (this is from my parents' State Representative who is a family friend. His lobbyists were working to kill the bill up till the last minute.:angry: )
Gallas and his marketing scheme which has allowed the Cubs to rename the city "Cubago."
Turned down the plans for what became Camden Yards for the BallMall we need to convince ourselves each season is a "nice" ballpark. Go to Camden or the Jake and you will really hate this guy. Both parks were done by the same architecture firm as Comiskey.
Refusal to do what it takes to win.
Inept record at sports management (look at the Bulls. When he bought them, Michael was an unsigned draftee. Imagine how they would have been in the 80's and 90's without Michael, that's the Jerry ownership skill set at work).
Sportschannel.
There is a lot more, but I think you get the idea.
Do I hate JR as a person? No, I never met him and the couple people I have ever talked to who have met him say he's personally a very nice guy. And, as someone already pointed out, the Sox do alot of charity work. BUT, I think the real question here is whether we hate JR the owner and my answer is a resounding YES. DumpJerry hits the high points of what JR has done to the Sox fan base and market share.

Some people on this thread have pointed out that JR is a very successful and smart businessman. But, he's a terrible baseball owner. What serves him well in the financial world doesn't always serve him well as an owner. He knows the price of everything and doesn't know the value of anything (isn't there an old saying that goes something like that?). His dumping of Harry Caray, putting the Sox on pay TV, building a characterless modern stadium, keeping private enterprise away from his new stadium - these were all good business moves done by a successful business man. But, these moves alienate the average fan and send them all up to Clark and Addison to jump on the overflowing Cubs bandwagon.

voodoochile
01-05-2005, 08:42 AM
I thought that law was repealed a while ago.
Unless there was a new attempt, the law in question was soundly defeated in he Illinois Congress. Wirtz was instrumental in "lobbying" to see it go down.

Hitmen77
01-05-2005, 08:48 AM
I agree. By that kind of logic, Mr. Potter would be the most beloved figure in Bedford Falls.
LMAO! I was just thinking of that analogy myself after I posted my reply.

GoSox2K3
01-05-2005, 09:00 AM
Bill Wirtz is a real estate guy too. He always made more money off real estate than the Blackhawks. You can only imagine how much money he has buried away.



"I don't want championships. They cost too much money."
:hijacked: Is this a thread about Sox owner Jerry Reinsdorf or about Hawks owner Bill Wirtz? I'm confused because people keep steering the topic to Wirtz and his hockey franchise. Take those complaints to "Blackhawks Interactive" or whatever site Hawks fans have. No offense, but I don't give a **** about the Hawks. Hey, I like the Bears! So let's start complaining about the McCaskeys in this thread!!!

GoSox2K3
01-05-2005, 09:04 AM
hate him all you want, he has more money than you, your father, his father, his father, and his father before him combined during your lifetimes. no offense, but he's a business man, he knows what he's doin.
Ok, Jerry, we know it's you using the name WhiteSoxFan84!

:reinsy
Can't blame me for trying! Heh, heh, heh!

tebman
01-05-2005, 10:32 AM
I for one don't hate Reinsdorf and put most of the blame when things don't pan out on the personel decision makers, field decision makers and players. While individuals can pile on JR for a number of things, many deserved, the Sox do have a payroll that is highest in their own division, which we can't even win... So I feel it's not in the amount of money spent, it's how it's spent.

Not to mention he is loyal (maybe to a fault) and doesn't hide from his critics, appearing on more shows than any owner I have ever seen or heard in this city - and country with exception of a few flakes like Cuban.I think that's the root of the Sox' low profile -- JR is loyal to a fault toward people who work for him. While that's an admirable quality, it's produced things like Hawk Harrelson as GM, Terry Bevington as manager, Rob Gallas (for way too long) as promotions guy, and probably many others that I'm forgetting. The organization has suffered because there have been too many second-tier people allowed to stay in first-tier postions.

And his willingness to move the Sox to Florida in 1988 still gnaws at me. I know it was a negotiating tactic to get a free ballpark (after all, he is a real-estate tycoon), but I just can't get past his use of the Sox in a game of chicken with the State of Illinois. If that taffy-pull had fallen the other direction, the Sox would now be the Devil Rays and we'd be left with steadily fading memories.

(deep breath now...let it go...that's better)

- tebman

fledgedrallycap
01-05-2005, 11:55 AM
I think that's the root of the Sox' low profile -- JR is loyal to a fault toward people who work for him. While that's an admirable quality, it's produced things like Hawk Harrelson as GM, Terry Bevington as manager, Rob Gallas (for way too long) as promotions guy, and probably many others that I'm forgetting. The organization has suffered because there have been too many second-tier people allowed to stay in first-tier postions.

And his willingness to move the Sox to Florida in 1988 still gnaws at me. I know it was a negotiating tactic to get a free ballpark (after all, he is a real-estate tycoon), but I just can't get past his use of the Sox in a game of chicken with the State of Illinois. If that taffy-pull had fallen the other direction, the Sox would now be the Devil Rays and we'd be left with steadily fading memories.

(deep breath now...let it go...that's better)

- tebman
I will say, youth has a lot to do with my indifference with JR. I was quite the young pup during the controversial cable TV deals and Tampa/stadium threats.

Not to mention, I realize this ownership garbage happens everywhere, in every sport, in every city...not saying it's right, but **** happens.

Dan H
01-05-2005, 01:39 PM
The Jerry Reinsdorf era 1981-Present:

3 division titles, no World Series, 3-10 record in the playoffs, no playoff wins at home

1 strike ending the World Series

1 White Flag Trade

He has had succeeded where other owners didn't but it has to get better than this. We are not Cub fans. We hate the expression "Wait til next year." It is time he produced, meaning a World Series.

I don't hate him but I am not exactly thrilled with him, either.

MUsoxfan
01-05-2005, 02:16 PM
:hijacked: Is this a thread about Sox owner Jerry Reinsdorf or about Hawks owner Bill Wirtz? I'm confused because people keep steering the topic to Wirtz and his hockey franchise. Take those complaints to "Blackhawks Interactive" or whatever site Hawks fans have. No offense, but I don't give a **** about the Hawks. Hey, I like the Bears! So let's start complaining about the McCaskeys in this thread!!!The conversation got turned into something about cheap/bad owners. I said that Reinsdorf wasn't the cheapest owner in this town, and pointed to Wirtz. Then someone asked (and I don't know why) if Wirtz was going to buy the team, and then people started talking about that. In a thread that turns as large as this, sometimes the topic will vary. I suggest you read the entire thread from the beginning as opposed to jumping in on page 5.

Lip Man 1
01-05-2005, 06:39 PM
Dan:

As usual an exact summery of a sad situation.

Lip

steff
01-05-2005, 09:16 PM
I haven't read it for a long time, but as I recall it, the Sox lease stipulates that the ISA must approve all renovations but the Sox must pay for them. That's why they sold the naming rights in the first place.
All structural improvements are approved and paid for with the tax funding, from what I read. The US Cell $$ definitely helped speed up the renovation process.

steff
01-05-2005, 09:18 PM
What money? The team is 20-somethingth in attendance even with all the discounts. This ain't the Yanks or Red Sox selling out with $57 tickets. The White Sox don't draw close to capacity in seasons they win the division. There is no more money.

My comment was in response to spending money on renovating the park. Don't put words in my mouth, misquote, or attempt to lie on my words.

Fake Chet Lemon
01-06-2005, 09:15 PM
I resent the fact he swung this over to a majority Cubs town when he took Sox games off free TV and put them on pay per view. Especially back then, Sox fans were blue collar fans. They weren't going to pony up the dough. I was a kid and it so unfair I couldn't see the games. My friends that were on the fence all became Cub fans at that point and remain to this day. But I don't hate him only because his options were limited. If I recall correctly, channel 44 went Spanish language and there really weren't many TV station options in the pre-cable days. But still it was a dumb decision, with Eddie Einhorn probably leading the way.

BainesHOF
01-07-2005, 03:00 AM
Jerry Reinsdorf is the Darth Vader of Chicago sports.

ewokpelts
01-07-2005, 12:23 PM
Jerry Reinsdorf is the Darth Vader of Chicago sports.more like the emporer.......

petekat
01-07-2005, 06:05 PM
Yeah, he's a cheapskate and all and started the strike- but he does have his good side. Agree with Fledgecap, he is loyal--- Tony Larussa and Jim Leyland, for exmaple are still very close friends with Jerry from back in the day. Reinsdorf also has a great history in promoting diversity in a sport with a poor record- hiriing Manuel, Kenny, and Ozzie all testaments to that

for all the Kenny-hatahs out there, at least he was astute to let Dan Evans go!


I for one don't hate Reinsdorf and put most of the blame when things don't pan out on the personel decision makers, field decision makers and players. While individuals can pile on JR for a number of things, many deserved, the Sox do have a payroll that is highest in their own division, which we can't even win... So I feel it's not in the amount of money spent, it's how it's spent.

Not to mention he is loyal (maybe to a fault) and doesn't hide from his critics, appearing on more shows than any owner I have ever seen or heard in this city - and country with exception of a few flakes like Cuban.

MeanFish
01-07-2005, 06:13 PM
Yeah, he's a cheapskate and all and started the strike- but he does have his good side. Agree with Fledgecap, he is loyal--- Tony Larussa and Jim Leyland, for exmaple are still very close friends with Jerry from back in the day. Reinsdorf also has a great history in promoting diversity in a sport with a poor record- hiriing Manuel, Kenny, and Ozzie all testaments to that

for all the Kenny-hatahs out there, at least he was astute to let Dan Evans go!
I had a weird dream once that I was hanging out at Reinsy's pad in the middle of the desert (keep in mind that it was a dream!) and all of these Chicago Tribune reporters were lined up on the horizon like a scene from "Braveheart" or something like that. Then this big battle ensued. It was crazy.

petekat
01-07-2005, 07:18 PM
cool, and what happened when Torii hunter broke through the line, did someone at least retaliate?



I had a weird dream once that I was hanging out at Reinsy's pad in the middle of the desert (keep in mind that it was a dream!) and all of these Chicago Tribune reporters were lined up on the horizon like a scene from "Braveheart" or something like that. Then this big battle ensued. It was crazy.