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WhiteSoxFan84
01-02-2005, 03:12 AM
I've always thought about this and always get mixed reactions; is the MLB playoff system too old fashioned? What I mean by that is, should there be more teams making the playoffs? Currently 8 out of 32 (25%) teams make it to the postseason. Compared to the NBA and NHL where 16 teams (over 50%) make the playoffs and the NFL where 12 teams (38%) make the playoffs.

This might happen sooner than we think, but I would love to see the MLB realign into 8 divisions much like the NFL. However, since NFL playoffs are only 1 game, the MLB would have to do a couple of things differently. There can be no such things as bye weeks. After breaking up into 8 divisions, each league would have 8 playoff teams. The 4 division winners and 4 wild cards from each league. The first round of the playoffs (round of 8 in each league) would be a best of 5 game series. The second round (round of 4 in each league) would also be a best of 5 game series. The final two rounds would both be best of 7 game series. The first two rounds would each take a week to complete. The 3rd (LCS) and 4th (WS) rounds would take a combined 3 weeks to finish. A five week playoff isn't too much is it?

A change from 8 to 16 playoff teams may seem like a ton, but if you think about it, 50% of the league would make it to the playoffs. If a team doesn't "deserve" to be in the playoffs, they won't be able to get lucky and win one game against a very good team and advance. They would have to prove themselves.

Also, feel free to comment on which league or association has the best playoff system.

OEO Magglio
01-02-2005, 03:19 AM
Keep it how it is. I love the current system and wouldn't want to see it changed.

Nellie_Fox
01-02-2005, 04:11 AM
Sweet Jesus, it's a 162 game season. Why would anyone pay any attention to, or for that matter attend, the regular season if half the teams made it into the playoffs? And if you haven't separated yourself from the pack after 162 games, you don't deserver further consideration.

You compare it to the NBA. Yup, let's just pay no attention to the season until the playoffs start, just like the NBA. Remember, they only have 18-20,000 seat arenas to fill, and only for 41 home games. MLB has 40-60,000 seat arenas to fill for for 81 home games.

cburns
01-02-2005, 04:22 AM
Yeah if half of the teams made the playoffs, that would be ridiculous

StillMissOzzie
01-02-2005, 04:45 AM
I think that the 162 game season is already too long. Adding another round of playoff games on top of that? If this were to happen at all, only if they shortened the regular season, and I'm sure the owners would just love that idea. Actually, they might, if x games were sliced off the regular season to make room for another round of playoffs, where tickets cost twice as much.

I always thought that the NHL was ridiculous, in that they played a needless season when so many teams made the playoffs. Not this year, though! I didn't realize that the NFL was just as ridiculous.

SMO
:gulp:

PaleHoseGeorge
01-02-2005, 09:33 AM
Well I have a plan to fix all of this... but you wouldn't want to hear it.

:)

PaulDrake
01-02-2005, 01:12 PM
I know I'm hoplessly out of touch, but you used to actually have to win something to make the playoffs in baseball. The fans seem to agree with the expanded playoffs and times do change. All well and good. However the baseball playoffs already last too long and the weather makes a mockery of at least some of the games every year. One of these years a really cold snap in the north in late October is going to make the World Series a truly lamentable affair. Play at least some of the post season games in the day and make sure the season is totally over by the end of the third week of October I say. It will never happen.

PaulDrake
01-02-2005, 01:13 PM
Well I have a plan to fix all of this... but you wouldn't want to hear it.

:) Yes I would.

kittle42
01-02-2005, 01:22 PM
I preferred 4 teams, to be honest.

santo=dorf
01-02-2005, 01:25 PM
I preferred 4 teams, to be honest.
4 teams out of 30 is too small. I like how it is right now.

ChiSoxRowand
01-02-2005, 01:27 PM
The MLB and NFL playoff systems are the best by far. Hopefully all these 8-8 teams making the playoffs this year will quiet the few owners who want to expand the playoffs.

Daver
01-02-2005, 01:37 PM
The wild card has watered down MLB playoffs by allowing also rans to play in the post season, if they want to allow 8 teams into the playoffs they should re-align both leagues into four divisions, if you don't win your division you go home in October.

santo=dorf
01-02-2005, 01:52 PM
The wild card has watered down MLB playoffs by allowing also rans to play in the post season, if they want to allow 8 teams into the playoffs they should re-align both leagues into four divisions, if you don't win your division you go home in October.Which teams in particular do you consider "also-rans?" Every Wild Card winning team? Were the 1990 Red Sox "also-rans" because their record was worse than the second place White Sox?

I also don't think the playoff systmm is "watered down" becuase the % of teams that make the playoffs is still lower than the other 3 major sports (yes, I included the NHL :tongue: ) With another round of playoffs in baseball, it makes it more difficult for a team to win a championship because they are probably facing a 90 win team in a short series before they compete for a pennant.

idseer
01-02-2005, 02:32 PM
even 8 teams is too many. bust your butt for a whole season then the best team from each league face off. $$$ people will never stand fot it tho.

anewman35
01-02-2005, 02:58 PM
even 8 teams is too many. bust your butt for a whole season then the best team from each league face off. $$$ people will never stand fot it tho.
In a system like that, people in at least 25 or so cities would stop caring about baseball by August or so.

SoxEd
01-02-2005, 03:08 PM
...if they want to allow 8 teams into the playoffs they should re-align both leagues into four divisions, if you don't win your division you go home in October. What he said!

For PaulDrake - I suspect that PHG may envisage a European-Soccer-style system of relegation & promotion, which I'm guessing would be too radical for most everyone here (but would probably have removed the Cubs from the top flight some time in the last 30 years) - then again, I'm an ocean away, so what do I know?

C'mon George, stop with the suspense already and let us know your idea...:wink:

EDIT: I just found PHG's earlier proposal - here (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=42616&highlight=Playoff+system)- I was well wide of the mark.

RKMeibalane
01-02-2005, 03:08 PM
Well I have a plan to fix all of this... but you wouldn't want to hear it.

:)
I do. I liked the plan you came up with a few weeks ago.

RKMeibalane
01-02-2005, 03:10 PM
In a system like that, people in at least 25 or so cities would stop caring about baseball by August or so.
How would that be any different than what happens every year anyway?

eastchicagosoxfan
01-02-2005, 03:38 PM
I would prefer a 154 game season, with more double headers, so that the season begins in mid-April and ends in mid-Sptember. Eight of 30 is plenty, two too many in my opinion, but there can't be opening round byes either. I think twinbills really test the depth of a ballteam, and the manager's ability really comes out too. Also, I just prefer my baseball when it's warm outside. Remember in 2000, the heat in that Cleveland series?

idseer
01-02-2005, 03:39 PM
How would that be any different than what happens every year anyway?
exactly!

besides ... it's not even true. if you're a sox fan and they seem to be finishing out of the money, do you stop caring? i don't.

it's like i said, money is the only factor here.

TornLabrum
01-02-2005, 03:56 PM
exactly!

besides ... it's not even true. if you're a sox fan and they seem to be finishing out of the money, do you stop caring? i don't.

it's like i said, money is the only factor here.
You may not stop caring, but you may stop going to the ball park. That's exactly what happened when the NL had 12 teams and no divisions in the 1890s.

idseer
01-02-2005, 04:15 PM
You may not stop caring, but you may stop going to the ball park. That's exactly what happened when the NL had 12 teams and no divisions in the 1890s.
doesn't change my point tho.

if you have 2 leagues then you play a full schedule to see who the 2 best teams are. then THEY play each other to determine the champ.

it's the way it's always been because it's the LOGICAL thing to do. only when owners and players decided more money could be made adding in a bunch of BOGUS teams did they change it.l

call me old fashioned or whatever. but i still believe the 2 best teams should play off.

Brian26
01-02-2005, 04:31 PM
The wild card has watered down MLB playoffs by allowing also rans to play in the post season, if they want to allow 8 teams into the playoffs they should re-align both leagues into four divisions, if you don't win your division you go home in October.
The only problem with this is that it brings back the problem we had for 25 years prior to 1995. What if Boston and New York are in the same division and have the two best records in the league? Meanwhile, 3 other teams (the division winners of weaker divisions) would make the playoffs. This doesn't solve anything...it actually makes things worse.

I like the current format. You take the 3 division winners and the 2nd best team of the rest of the teams in each league and go from there. It's the perfect format. Letting 8 teams in for each league would be ridiculous.

PaleHoseGeorge
01-02-2005, 04:35 PM
....
C'mon George, stop with the suspense already and let us know your idea...:wink:
ED! Ixnay on the occersay! (The neanderthals will go nuts if they find out where the idea came from.)
:wink:

I'm just too damned lazy to type it all out again. So here's the plan I posted last month (the one you already found)...

1.) Eliminate all divisions and wild-card spots. Set up two 16-team leagues, AL and NL.

2.) Shorten the regular season to 90 games, each team playing IDENTICAL SCHEDULES against their 15 league opponents 6 times (3 home, 3 away). Play these games in April, May, and August through Labor Day.

3.) Spend June, July, and September playing a separate schedule inside 8 regionally-based inter-league divisions (4 teams each) playing 72 games (24 games per opponent) to eliminate the bottom-two finishers. That leaves 16 teams for the playoffs in October.

4.) Hold a traditional 7-game World Series the 1st week of October between the AL and NL champion (the two best teams across 90 games). Crown the winner world champion.

5.) After the World Series, hold a 1-game playoff between each of the 8 division winners and their respective runner-up (first-place team's home park). Conduct these one 1-game playoffs across 4 nights. Crown each winner division champion.

6.) Take the eight division champions and hold a round-robin tournament, 7 games per team, in one or two separate host cities (someplace warm) on east and west coast. Use tie breaker gimmicks (like best run differential) to decide the two teams of finalists.

7.) Hold a one-game tournament championship someplace warm the Sunday night before Halloween, baseball's Super Bowl... one giant party for the media to build up days and days in advance. Crown the winner with the Commissioner's Cup trophy.

8.) Let the traditionalists and new-age fans fight and fight all winter over which team was the best and true champion, the World Series champion or the Commissioner's Cup champioin. Truly great teams win both competitions and distinguish themselves from all the lesser champions who didn't. Everyone is happy.

Problem solved.
:cool:

Daver
01-02-2005, 04:52 PM
The only problem with this is that it brings back the problem we had for 25 years prior to 1995. What if Boston and New York are in the same division and have the two best records in the league? Meanwhile, 3 other teams (the division winners of weaker divisions) would make the playoffs. This doesn't solve anything...it actually makes things worse.


Then either Boston or New York would be sitting at home in October, sucks to be them. Having to win the division to make the play-offs makes divisional games during the season that much more important, instead of rewarding the also rans.

OEO Magglio
01-02-2005, 04:56 PM
ED! Ixnay on the occersay! (The neanderthals will go nuts if they find out where the idea came from.)
:wink:

I'm just too damned lazy to type it all out again. So here's the plan I posted last month (the one you already found)...

1.) Eliminate all divisions and wild-card spots. Set up two 16-team leagues, AL and NL.

2.) Shorten the regular season to 90 games, each team playing IDENTICAL SCHEDULES against their 15 league opponents 6 times (3 home, 3 away). Play these games in April, May, and August through Labor Day.

3.) Spend June, July, and September playing a separate schedule inside 8 regionally-based inter-league divisions (4 teams each) playing 72 games (24 games per opponent) to eliminate the bottom-two finishers. That leaves 16 teams for the playoffs in October.

4.) Hold a traditional 7-game World Series the 1st week of October between the AL and NL champion (the two best teams across 90 games). Crown the winner world champion.

5.) After the World Series, hold a 1-game playoff between each of the 8 division winners and their respective runner-up (first-place team's home park). Conduct these one 1-game playoffs across 4 nights. Crown each winner division champion.

6.) Take the eight division champions and hold a round-robin tournament, 7 games per team, in one or two separate host cities (someplace warm) on east and west coast. Use tie breaker gimmicks (like best run differential) to decide the two teams of finalists.

7.) Hold a one-game tournament championship someplace warm the Sunday night before Halloween, baseball's Super Bowl... one giant party for the media to build up days and days in advance. Crown the winner with the Commissioner's Cup trophy.

8.) Let the traditionalists and new-age fans fight and fight all winter over which team was the best and true champion, the World Series champion or the Commissioner's Cup champioin. Truly great teams win both competitions and distinguish themselves from all the lesser champions who didn't. Everyone is happy.

Problem solved.
:cool:

How the hell did you come up with that :?:

EDIT: You must like the BCS :cool:

Brian26
01-02-2005, 04:57 PM
I'm just too damned lazy to type it all out again. So here's the plan I posted last month (the one you already found)...
I love it and I hate it. Is that possible?:D:

I think the tournament system, especially broken up over the course of several months, would completely confuse the average American baseball fan. I don't mean to sound elitist, but this is just confusing for the average fan to grasp.

From an economic standpoint, the regional play could be hugely risky as well. Although 24 games between, say, the Sox and Cubs or Sox and Brewers could be gold, there are still a dozen teams out there that would be screwed by this. 24 games between Seattle and Colorado or the Astros and D-backs wouldn't generate much fan interest for those teams.

With all of that said, I like the idea of a tournament. I wouldn't mind seeing maybe a preseason tourny. I still think the World Series has to be the last part of the season. You can't screw with 100 years of tradition like that (although that didnt stop anyone in '94, did it?)

Brian26
01-02-2005, 05:00 PM
Then either Boston or New York would be sitting at home in October, sucks to be them. Having to win the division to make the play-offs makes divisional games during the season that much more important, instead of rewarding the also rans.
I guess you're saying that the season is their playoff, so why withold the inevitable? My take is you might as well let these guys battle on the national stage at the end of the season rather than watch NY face Seattle or Boston face Oakland for the AL pennant.

Daver
01-02-2005, 05:08 PM
I guess you're saying that the season is their playoff, so why withold the inevitable? My take is you might as well let these guys battle on the national stage at the end of the season rather than watch NY face Seattle or Boston face Oakland for the AL pennant.
And I'm saying why should they play in the post season if they have not earned the right to do so by winning their division?

PaleHoseGeorge
01-02-2005, 05:08 PM
How the hell did you come up with that

EDIT: You must like the BCS
See... I told you you wouldn't like it.
:cool:

And it's not even close to BCS... it's soccer... but let's keep it our secret, okay.
:wink:

PaleHoseGeorge
01-02-2005, 05:13 PM
I love it and I hate it....
I think the tournament system, especially broken up over the course of several months, would completely confuse the average American baseball fan. I don't mean to sound elitist, but this is just confusing for the average fan to grasp.....
Keeping the average American fan confused has served the NFL quite nicely, thank you very much.
:wink:

For example, less than 2 weeks ago there were still people around here posting the Bears' playoff possibilities. My system puts 16 teams into a do or die 1-game playoff round, and has fans of nearly all the other 16 teams still wondering about playoff possibilities well into September.

I'd say it's nearly perfect in every way...
:cool:

OEO Magglio
01-02-2005, 05:20 PM
See... I told you you wouldn't like it.
:cool:

And it's not even close to BCS... it's soccer... but let's keep it our secret, okay.
:wink:
Well.....personally I don't like it, however that was creative and interesting so I applaud you for that. That's why I ask how you came up with it, never heard something like that before.

doublem23
01-02-2005, 05:34 PM
You can't compare baseball's play-off system to football's because of the fact that baseball plays 10x more games than the NFL does.

Baseball has enough problems to deal with, the least of which being its current play-off setup, but in a perfect world, first off, I'd eliminate probably 4-6 teams, break the NL and AL into the East and West again, and just have 1 round of play-offs leading to the World Series.

Just beacuse ESPN says the wild card is good for baseball, doesn't make it so. The real problem with baseball's post-season are there are too many bad teams at the bottom with too many crappy owners. Baseball had only a maximum 7-game post-season for nearly 70 years (except for those few years in the late 1910s with the best-of-9 World Series) and the sport did just fine. Awarding teams with chances to win the world title after not winning their division is garbage.

WhiteSoxFan84
01-02-2005, 05:44 PM
Best realistic idea I have is as follows;

Keep leagues how they are, have 3 division champs and 3 wild cards.
The top two division champs records get BYES in the first round of the playoffs.
The first round of the playoffs is a best of 3 wild card round series. Here's the catch, all 3 games are played in the same place on 3 consecutive days, almost like a regular season 3 game series.
Then the two teams with a bye host the two winnings teams in a best of 5 division series. This is where we get back to the current MLB playoff format.

Here's an example;
AL EAST
Yankees 101-61
Red Sox 97-65
Orioles 80-82
Blue Jays 71-91
Devil Rays 69-93

AL CENTRAL
White Sox 89-73
Twins 84-78
Indians 79-83
Tigers 71-91
Royals 58-104

AL WEST
Angels 94-68
Rangers 83-79
Mariners 79-83
Atheletics 69-93

I just made these records up and unintentionally they came out perfectly with 2 playoff teams per division. Here's how the playoffs would work out...
- Wild Card Round of Playoffs
Yankees and Angels get 1st round byes. Although the Red Sox have a better record than the White Sox, the White Sox are a division champ and thus get the lower seeded team....
Rangers @ White Sox, best of 3 (all games in Chicago) - White Sox in 3
Twins @ Red Sox, best of 3 (all games in Boston) - Red Sox in 3

- Divisional Round of Playoffs
Red Sox @ Yankees, best of 5 - Yankees in 4
White Sox @ Angels, best of 5 - White Sox in 5

- ALCS
White Sox @ Yankees, best of 7 - Yankees in 6 (God damn Randy Johnson's 2-0 record and 1.37 ERA in this series!)

And obviously use the same system in the NL. I actually like this system a lot. You can maybe short the season to 154 games if you guys think the season would be too long.

doublem23
01-02-2005, 05:47 PM
Can we stop pretending MLB is the NFL? I know baseball is no longer "the" American sport, but what works for football does not work for baseball.

WhiteSoxFan84
01-02-2005, 05:50 PM
Can we stop pretending MLB is the NFL? I know baseball is no longer "the" American sport, but what works for football does not work for baseball.
Can you tell me what is wrong with the suggestion I made? I'm not being a dick or anything, I just want to hear opinions. It's pretty solid in that the first round of the playoffs would be like a regular season series with a lot more at stake.

doublem23
01-02-2005, 05:54 PM
Can you tell me what is wrong with the suggestion I made? I'm not being a dick or anything, I just want to hear opinions. It's pretty solid in that the first round of the playoffs would be like a regular season series with a lot more at stake.
As I said in my first post in the thread, I think baseball already lets too many teams in the post-season. Since the divisional realignment in 1994, the MLB has tried to become the NFL. I'm waiting for the day they move to a full interleague schedule and now 4 divisions.

If you're going to play 162 games, you don't need to have 6 teams in the play-offs. There's no way you can't weed out the 1-2 best teams in the leagu by then.

Long season = short play-offs; short season = longer play-offs.

FightingBillini
01-02-2005, 06:31 PM
ED! Ixnay on the occersay! (The neanderthals will go nuts if they find out where the idea came from.)
:wink:

I'm just too damned lazy to type it all out again. So here's the plan I posted last month (the one you already found)...

1.) Eliminate all divisions and wild-card spots. Set up two 16-team leagues, AL and NL.

2.) Shorten the regular season to 90 games, each team playing IDENTICAL SCHEDULES against their 15 league opponents 6 times (3 home, 3 away). Play these games in April, May, and August through Labor Day.

3.) Spend June, July, and September playing a separate schedule inside 8 regionally-based inter-league divisions (4 teams each) playing 72 games (24 games per opponent) to eliminate the bottom-two finishers. That leaves 16 teams for the playoffs in October.

4.) Hold a traditional 7-game World Series the 1st week of October between the AL and NL champion (the two best teams across 90 games). Crown the winner world champion.

5.) After the World Series, hold a 1-game playoff between each of the 8 division winners and their respective runner-up (first-place team's home park). Conduct these one 1-game playoffs across 4 nights. Crown each winner division champion.

6.) Take the eight division champions and hold a round-robin tournament, 7 games per team, in one or two separate host cities (someplace warm) on east and west coast. Use tie breaker gimmicks (like best run differential) to decide the two teams of finalists.

7.) Hold a one-game tournament championship someplace warm the Sunday night before Halloween, baseball's Super Bowl... one giant party for the media to build up days and days in advance. Crown the winner with the Commissioner's Cup trophy.

8.) Let the traditionalists and new-age fans fight and fight all winter over which team was the best and true champion, the World Series champion or the Commissioner's Cup champioin. Truly great teams win both competitions and distinguish themselves from all the lesser champions who didn't. Everyone is happy.

Problem solved.
:cool:
You were right, I didn't want to hear it. :cool:

TornLabrum
01-02-2005, 06:33 PM
doesn't change my point tho.

if you have 2 leagues then you play a full schedule to see who the 2 best teams are. then THEY play each other to determine the champ.

it's the way it's always been because it's the LOGICAL thing to do. only when owners and players decided more money could be made adding in a bunch of BOGUS teams did they change it.l

call me old fashioned or whatever. but i still believe the 2 best teams should play off.
How many of those "bogus teams" won the World Series since 1994?

FightingBillini
01-02-2005, 06:36 PM
How many of those "bogus teams" won the World Series since 1994?
But you dont understand! Whoever wins more games againt Montreal and the Mets is more important than who can win a pressure packed seven game series!

ewokpelts
01-02-2005, 06:45 PM
And I'm saying why should they play in the post season if they have not earned the right to do so by winning their division?if you eliminate the wild card, you wouldn't have the marlins beating the cubs.....no matter how you align 4 divisions, atlanta would still be in the same division as florida...thus we may have had to deal with the "nl champion" cubs in 2003....
Gene

Daver
01-02-2005, 06:56 PM
if you eliminate the wild card, you wouldn't have the marlins beating the cubs.....no matter how you align 4 divisions, atlanta would still be in the same division as florida...thus we may have had to deal with the "nl champion" cubs in 2003....
Gene
So what.

PaleHoseGeorge
01-02-2005, 07:00 PM
You were right, I didn't want to hear it. :cool:
Neither did the Luddites.
:wink:

idseer
01-02-2005, 07:21 PM
How many of those "bogus teams" won the World Series since 1994?
what does that have to do with anything? with that thinking let EVERY team into the playoffs. after all, any team can beat any other team, right?

SoxEd
01-02-2005, 07:30 PM
what does that have to do with anything? with that thinking let EVERY team into the playoffs. after all, any team can beat any other team, right? Isn't that the whole point of PHG's Commissioner's Cup idea?

That way, fans get one long and gruelling League-based competition, whose eventual October winner gets to call themselves World Champions, and one knock-out based (like the play-offs) competition, where any team can 'catch lightning in a bottle' to knock out eg NYY, and whose eventual victor is awarded the Commissioner's Cup.

Makes sense to me at any rate...
(I know, I know, I'm a lousy European weirdo...)

PaleHoseGeorge
01-02-2005, 08:02 PM
Isn't that the whole point of PHG's Commissioner's Cup idea?

That way, fans get one long and gruelling League-based competition, whose eventual October winner gets to call themselves World Champions, and one knock-out based (like the play-offs) competition, where any team can 'catch lightning in a bottle' to knock out eg NYY, and whose eventual victor is awarded the Commissioner's Cup.

Makes sense to me at any rate...
(I know, I know, I'm a lousy European weirdo...)
You're a good man, SoxEd. You figured out the internal logic of the plan without me even having to explain it.
:thumbsup:

This plan gives everyone EXACTLY what they claim to want to fix baseball... and yet the complaints just keep coming. What was it that Grandpa Simpson said about these people? Oh yeah...
:cool:

http://forums.matchnight.com/i/authorsicons/Grandpa%20Simpson.gif
"Bitch! Bitch! Bitch!"

WhiteSoxFan84
01-02-2005, 08:15 PM
what does that have to do with anything? with that thinking let EVERY team into the playoffs. after all, any team can beat any other team, right?
On any given DAY, yes. In a 5 or 7 game series, highly unlikely.

WhiteSoxFan84
01-02-2005, 08:23 PM
You're a good man, SoxEd. You figured out the internal logic of the plan without me even having to explain it.
:thumbsup:

This plan gives everyone EXACTLY what they claim to want to fix baseball... and yet the complaints just keep coming. What was it that Grandpa Simpson said about these people? Oh yeah...
:cool:

http://forums.matchnight.com/i/authorsicons/Grandpa%20Simpson.gif
"Bitch! Bitch! Bitch!" How does your plan stop the Yankees from spending $220 million a year while the Royals spend $30 million? You said it gives everyone exactly what they claim to want to fix baseball, it doesn't give me anything.

There's a reason soccer is not so popular in the states, and it might not be because of their silly playoff system, but it would be laughed at. I'm not against soccer but I won't stand up for it either. I like the English Premier League and I'm a HUGE Wayne Rooney fan, but if it were in the states, I'd hate it. There's a different feel when you compare a soccer game in the states to a soccer game in Europe or South America.

Bottomline is that if you were to hold a poll, I doubt you'd get more than 20% of a widely surveyed population that would prefer your idea over the current system. It's too complicated and can you imagine what Bud Selig would think if he saw your proposal?

:tool"......riiiiiight. What is the next kid wishing for, a baseball team in Alaska?"

santo=dorf
01-02-2005, 09:29 PM
I don't care which sport it is, any playoff format that has games after a World Champion is declared is stupid. It's also stupid to have a one game playoff system to determine who will be "crowned" third place amongst the 8 division winners in baseball because MLB schedules are made so teams play against each other in 3 or 4 game series. Unless this new 90 game schedule (How do you plan to make up the revenue from the other 72 games? :?: ) is formatted like the NHL or NBA where teams play against each other once (which is completely stupid and a disgrace to baseball) then I don't see why the playoffs should compose of one game "series."

Enough of this Euro-crap. I'll drive on the right side of the road and drink my beer served cold thank you very much. :cool:

PaleHoseGeorge
01-02-2005, 09:34 PM
How does your plan stop the Yankees from spending $220 million a year while the Royals spend $30 million? HA! Is that all you're worried about? Hell, this plan fixes way more than that. It gives the Royals (and every other team) a chance to knock out a richer more talented rival in a short 9 inning winner-take-all playoff. It also keeps fans of the weakest teams interested in playoff possibilities until the very end of the season, not unlike those goofy Bears fans still calculating their route to the playoffs the week before Christmas.
:cool:

It's a Brave New World for baseball fans like you if you're just honest enough to embrace it.

Champs2004
01-02-2005, 09:42 PM
I personally would make it like the NFL except for this one thing

the NL would be broke up into 4 divisions (4 div winners, 2 WC's)
East: ATL, NYM, PHI, and WSH
North: CHC, CIN, MIL, STL
South: AZ, FLA, HOU, PIT
West: COL, LA, SD, SF

the AL Would be the same (3 div winners, 3 WC's)

the WC round would only be a 1 game playoff
NL: CHC at LA, SF at HOU
AL: TEX at MIN, OAK at BOS

the LDS would be the status quo:
NL: CHC/SF/HOU vs. STL, SF/HOU/LA vs. ATL
AL: TEX/OAK/BOS vs. NYY, OAK/BOS/MIN vs. ANA

the LCS and WS get played the same

PaleHoseGeorge
01-02-2005, 09:51 PM
I don't care which sport it is, any playoff format that has games after a World Champion is declared is stupid....
Silly, silly, silly... it's two SEPARATE competitions, not one. The world champion is crowned at the end of the best-of-7 World Series, itself the direct culmination of a 90 game schedule. That's 9 more than they play in the NBA, and a whopping 74 more than the NFL.

Meanwhile the Commissioner's Cup involves 32 teams whittled down to 16, then 8, and finally 2. The MLB Super Bowl game is the direct culmination of 72 regular games plus 3 rounds of playoffs. That's *exactly* the same as the NFL and other leagues use for picking a champion, a playoff system fans like you think is genius for creating excitement.

And oh BTW... the number of post-season playoff games would rise dramatically under my system. Instead of bitching, bitching, bictching, why don't you do the math?
:wink:

Enough of this Euro-crap. I'll drive on the right side of the road and drink my beer served cold thank you very much. :cool:
Now... now... you can admit you had no idea this concept was based on league and cup championships in Europe. It's not very flattering to make yourself sound like a xenophobe.
:cool:

santo=dorf
01-02-2005, 10:15 PM
Ahhhh, I missed the part about the 72 game schedule for determining the division winners (number 3.) I nearly fell out of my chair when you said "the regular season" would be 90 games. It's all good now, but I still don't like it. :D:

JKryl
01-03-2005, 12:09 AM
I like what we have now. True we have a wild card team and a watered down league, but any additional teams in the playoffs would be lunacy. We'd either have to shorten the season, start in March, or extend the playoffs into late October. April and September in Comiskey is bad enough. That just wouldn't work.

I would, however make an exception for October games in Comiskey, should the occasion warrent it.


:bundy White Sox baseball, every day an adventure!

WhiteSoxFan84
01-03-2005, 03:57 AM
I personally would make it like the NFL except for this one thing

the NL would be broke up into 4 divisions (4 div winners, 2 WC's)
East: ATL, NYM, PHI, and WSH
North: CHC, CIN, MIL, STL
South: AZ, FLA, HOU, PIT
West: COL, LA, SD, SF

the AL Would be the same (3 div winners, 3 WC's)

the WC round would only be a 1 game playoff
NL: CHC at LA, SF at HOU
AL: TEX at MIN, OAK at BOS

the LDS would be the status quo:
NL: CHC/SF/HOU vs. STL, SF/HOU/LA vs. ATL
AL: TEX/OAK/BOS vs. NYY, OAK/BOS/MIN vs. ANA

the LCS and WS get played the same
And then you have the NL and AL break into two different businesses like rivals. What we need to do is send a team from the NL to the AL West to even things out. And what gets done in the AL must be done in the NL, vice versa.

And the whole World Series and then a Commissioner's Cup, keep that stuff in Europe. It's horrible. World Series means MUCH less than it did before. You're messing with tradition and history by adding a Commissioner's Cup. Why don't you just have the MLB use the NCAA's BCS formula and instead of playoffs play 8 bowl games at year's end?

After hearing some of these ideas, I love how the current system is. Thank you guys for convincing me. :redneck

crector
01-03-2005, 08:47 AM
If anything, there are too many teams in the MLB playoffs now and it should be put back to when there was 4 divisions with 4 playoff teams.

PaleHoseGeorge
01-03-2005, 09:12 AM
Ahhhh, I missed the part about the 72 game schedule for determining the division winners (number 3.) I nearly fell out of my chair when you said "the regular season" would be 90 games. It's all good now, but I still don't like it. :D: Yes, that's right. Did you get the part where 90 + 72 = 162 total "regular season" games? I think this is key. Every team, no matter how good or how bad, will play the same minimum number of games they've always played. Every owner pockets the same gate they always pocket and baseball's record book is kept intact, too.

Obviously there will be more teams involved in more playoff games in October and this will generate even more revenue for everyone, even the teams that got eliminated in September. Specifically, with 16 teams making the Commissioner's Cup tournament, nearly everyone will still be calculating their lousy teams' playoff chances well into September-- not unlike Bears fans before Christmas.

More playoff games means more TV money for MLB, and more revenue sharing opportunities, too. Meanwhile the World Series returns to what it always was meant to be: a best-of-7 playoff between the two undisputed best teams in baseball. No stupid '73 Mets, '87 Twins, or (God help us) wild card champion upstaging the best teams.

See, I told you it was perfect.
:cool:

idseer
01-03-2005, 10:05 AM
See, I told you it was perfect.
:cool:
except the part where you're likely to have 2 champions after all the dust has settled. then there'll just be more clamor to play them off again.

PaleHoseGeorge
01-03-2005, 10:25 AM
except the part where you're likely to have 2 champions after all the dust has settled. then there'll just be more clamor to play them off again. Playoff? Pfft... only for the feeble-minded. Certainly not you, id.
:cool:

No serious fan of baseball would dispute either pennant champion as the best team in their league -- just like it was for over a century. Winning the World Series made you world champions, the cherry on the cake. Praise the Lord!
:cool:

The Commissioner's Cup tournament is strictly for thrills. Isn't that what all these NFL wild card type proponents are screaming for? Gimmicks, gimmicks, gimmicks... all intended to fool children and the feeble-minded. You can make a lot of money off these people. Just ask Pete Rozelle and Paul Tagliabue.
:thumbsup:

And for the record, there is no reason a super champion team couldn't win both the World Series and the Cup. So quit whining already. You want to be undisputed champion of the feeble-minded? Win it on the field. Isn't that why we play the ****ing games in the first place? Well, duh...
:wink:

idseer
01-03-2005, 10:36 AM
Playoff? Pfft... only for the feeble-minded. Certainly not you, id.
:cool:

No serious fan of baseball would dispute either pennant champion as the best team in their league -- just like it was for over a century. Winning the World Series made you world champions, the cherry on the cake. Praise the Lord!
:cool:

The Commissioner's Cup tournament is strictly for thrills. Isn't that what all these NFL wild card type proponents are screaming for? Gimmicks, gimmicks, gimmicks... all intended to fool children and the feeble-minded. You can make a lot of money off these people. Just ask Pete Rozelle and Paul Tagliabue.
:thumbsup:

And for the record, there is no reason a super champion team couldn't win both the World Series and the Cup. So quit whining already. You want to be undisputed champion of the feeble-minded? Win it on the field. Isn't that why we play the ****ing games in the first place? Well, duh...
:wink:
hmmmm trying to put down your opposition before they have a chance to open their mouths huh? i've seen that old ploy used for years and years. doesn't affect me tho. :cool:

yes a super champ COULD win them all. but in the more likely event they don't you will have people unsatisfied because there will be no true champion in thier minds (feeble or not). we'll be right back where we were with events like 2 college number ones. or 5 heavyweight champs.
all you're idea really accomplishes is putting 2 championship series back to back in the same season. why not 3 or 4? nah!

only one season at a time for me. and only one champion! and NO WILD CARDS! :smile:

PaleHoseGeorge
01-03-2005, 11:11 AM
hmmmm trying to put down your opposition before they have a chance to open their mouths huh? i've seen that old ploy used for years and years. doesn't affect me tho.
Re-read what I wrote because I actually went out of my way to salute your baseball intelligence. Don't embarrass me by proving me wrong, id.
:wink:

yes a super champ COULD win them all. but in the more likely event they don't you will have people unsatisfied because there will be no true champion in thier minds (feeble or not). we'll be right back where we were with events like 2 college number ones. or 5 heavyweight champs.
all you're idea really accomplishes is putting 2 championship series back to back in the same season. why not 3 or 4? nah!

only one season at a time for me. and only one champion! and NO WILD CARDS! :smile:
I'm surprised id, you're overlooking the most obvious point. If a champion team doesn't win both championships it's because they played and lost one, if not several, playoff games! Even the feeble-minded understand that you have to win your games to be a champion, right?

This is really no issue... it's not like some BCS computer decided who was ranked #1 and #2. Sheesh... they lost their game(s) because they suck... or at least they aren't as good as we would expect a champion team to be.

Works for me and the feeble-minded, too.
:cool:

Dan H
01-03-2005, 11:26 AM
I don't want to see any teams added to the playoffs. Getting into the post season should be a reward for a great regular season. Teams with win totals in the low 80's should go home where they belong.

It will never happen but I loved when just the two division winners met in the playoffs. I like playoffs shorter not longer. The playoffs in the NBA and NHL are a complete joke. The NFL isn't much better. They are just ripping fans off with this nonsense.

idseer
01-03-2005, 11:32 AM
Re-read what I wrote because I actually went out of my way to salute your baseball intelligence. Don't embarrass me by proving me wrong, id.
:wink:
you misunderstood. i was refering to your comments about the feebleminded (and i read that to be anyone [of which i am a part in this matter] who didn't appreciate the logic of your thinking).



I'm surprised id, you're overlooking the most obvious point. If a champion team doesn't win both championships it's because they played and lost one, if not several, playoff games! Even the feeble-minded understand that you have to win your games to be a champion, right?
i just don't buy this argument. there is seldom an undefeated champion in any sport, let alone baseball. using this idea there could never be a champion that wasn't arbitrarily the best team on any given day.
it doesn't change the fact that the mind wants one champion. period. you play a season (just one) and you play off the best teams (just 2 imo), and you come away with the winner. that is the champion!

it's not that i can't see your reasons ... i just don't agree. :smile:

PaleHoseGeorge
01-03-2005, 11:41 AM
...
i just don't buy this argument. there is seldom an undefeated champion in any sport, let alone baseball. using this idea there could never be a champion that wasn't arbitrarily the best team on any given day.
it doesn't change the fact that the mind wants one champion. period. you play a season (just one) and you play off the best teams (just 2 imo), and you come away with the winner. that is the champion!

it's not that i can't see your reasons ... i just don't agree. :smile:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the playoffs already a second season??? Everybody starts with a record of 0-0 before the first pitch in October, right? In fact every season don't the TV and radio mediots reach for the same old cliche about it being "a whole new season" once the playoffs start?
:wink:

My plan makes more sense than any cliche Peter Gammons ever repeated.
:cool:

:boston
"You have to play 'em one game at a time."
"I'm just happy to be here. Hope I can help the ballclub."
"Good Lord willing, everything will work out!"

idseer
01-03-2005, 11:50 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the playoffs already a second season??? Everybody starts with a record of 0-0 before the first pitch in October, right? In fact every season don't the TV and radio mediots reach for the same old cliche about it being "a whole new season" once the playoffs start?
:wink:


playoffs a second season? nope. the playoffs are just that. playoffs. they are needed because you have 2 different leagues. if you want to determine who the best team is you need to then pit one against the other.
i do believe that when there WAS only one league the seasonal winner WAS the champion, weren't they?

and i don't put a whole lot of stock in what mediots say. do you? :smile:

PaleHoseGeorge
01-03-2005, 12:19 PM
playoffs a second season? nope. the playoffs are just that. playoffs. they are needed because you have 2 different leagues. if you want to determine who the best team is you need to then pit one against the other.
i do believe that when there WAS only one league the seasonal winner WAS the champion, weren't they?

and i don't put a whole lot of stock in what mediots say. do you? :smile:
So what do you want, id? A system that delivers one undisputed champion or a system that gives everyone a chance to knock off the best team in the league?

Believe me, there are a lot of 15-1 Pittsburgh Steelers fans sweating the answer you give to this question. It's just sooooo unfair...
:cool:

idseer
01-03-2005, 12:37 PM
So what do you want, id? A system that delivers one undisputed champion or a system that gives everyone a chance to knock off the best team in the league?

Believe me, there are a lot of 15-1 Pittsburgh Steelers fans sweating the answer you give to this question. It's just sooooo unfair...
:cool:
undisputed ... no doubt! :D:

and btw, that same system DOES give everyone else a chance to knock the champ off. it's all up to the system being fairly laid out and intelligent owners putting together a competitive team (admittedly not the way things are now). who wants a stupid and lucky team to be champion anyway? :?:

the steelers are doing it on the field and over the course of the season. and i don't like the playoff system there either. but i will add this. shedules are pretty unbalanced in the nfl. more teams in their playoffs do make a little more sense than in baseball where everyone gets roughly the same schedule (again ... it should be exactly the same imo to be fair).

OurBitchinMinny
01-03-2005, 12:47 PM
What is this NHL you speak of?

PaleHoseGeorge
01-03-2005, 12:54 PM
undisputed ... no doubt! :D:

and btw, that same system DOES give everyone else a chance to knock the champ off. it's all up to the system being fairly laid out and intelligent owners putting together a competitive team (admittedly not the way things are now). who wants a stupid and lucky team to be champion anyway? :?:

the steelers are doing it on the field and over the course of the season. and i don't like the playoff system there either. but i will add this. shedules are pretty unbalanced in the nfl. more teams in their playoffs do make a little more sense than in baseball where everyone gets roughly the same schedule (again ... it should be exactly the same imo to be fair).
Should the Steelers meet the Eagles right now? Or should we let the Patriots get another crack at Pittsburgh first? They did lose to Pittsburgh once already, don't you know.

Like you said, "Undisputed... no doubt."
:wink:

idseer
01-03-2005, 01:00 PM
Should the Steelers meet the Eagles right now? Or should we let the Patriots get another crack at Pittsburgh first? They did lose to Pittsburgh once already, don't you know.

Like you said, "Undisputed... no doubt."
:wink:
i wish they'd cut it back to 16 teams and everyone play everyone else once.
-or-
two 8 team leagues each league playing 2 with others in their league then the 2 winners face off.
-or-
four 4 team leagues with eac. ............

PaleHoseGeorge
01-03-2005, 01:11 PM
i wish they'd cut it back to 16 teams and everyone play everyone else once.
-or-
two 8 team leagues each league playing 2 with others in their league then the 2 winners face off.
-or-
four 4 team leagues with eac. ............



Ah, I see... I've been officially replaced as the biggest crackpot posting in this thread.
:wink:

idseer
01-03-2005, 01:12 PM
Ah, I see... I've been officially replaced as the biggest crackpot posting in this thread.
:wink:
so .... where's my ribbon? :cool:

WhiteSoxFan84
01-03-2005, 02:01 PM
The fact that we're arguing about a World Series and then a GAMES afterwards is a joke. PHG, you talk about exploring a brave new world, how about exploring the fact that you're idea would never work in any American sport. And I agree with idseer, give your opposition a chance to make their point without dumbing them down. Believe it or not, other's are entitled to disagree with you.

That being said, enough talk about a silly Commissioner's Cup, I'm sorry I even made this thread now. It's turned into PHG vs. the WSI nation, sorry about that PHG and everyone else.

MeanFish
01-03-2005, 02:18 PM
The fact that we're arguing about a World Series and then a GAMES afterwards is a joke. PHG, you talk about exploring a brave new world, how about exploring the fact that you're idea would never work in any American sport. And I agree with idseer, give your opposition a chance to make their point without dumbing them down. Believe it or not, other's are entitled to disagree with you.

That being said, enough talk about a silly Commissioner's Cup, I'm sorry I even made this thread now. It's turned into PHG vs. the WSI nation, sorry about that PHG and everyone else.
I'm siding with PHG. I love the idea. It might not appeal to purists, but it would be amazingly entertaining.

Frater Perdurabo
01-03-2005, 02:57 PM
I'm siding with PHG. I love the idea. It might not appeal to purists, but it would be amazingly entertaining.

Me too. When I first read it a few months ago, I thought it was crazy. But PHG is crazy like a fox and this idea is just "crazy" enough that it would be a wild success.

It satisfies the purists yet has plenty of gimmicks. It has the fun and excitement of the NCAA basketball tournament that allows for a "Cinderella" team to go on a tear and capture the hearts and minds of baseball fans around the country but separates the "cheap champs" from the truly exceptional teams (who would need to win both). Most importantly, it gives baseball fans throughout the country - including in Kansas City and Pittsburgh - plenty to argue about on talk radio.

It's also double the marketing opportunities: You could sell the naming rights to the tournament brackets to corporations located in the city/state that hosts each round. The "Ericcson Regionals," the "Qwest Quarterfinal," etc. It could be the "Chevrolet Commissioners Cup" as well. This revenue could be shared equally among all teams, in inverse proportion to payrolls (revenue-sharing), or be disbursed to the teams who make the cut (profit motive for players to help the team win). It also provides opporunities to sell naming rights to all the individual performance categories (Final Four Web Gem sponsored by Zales, BALCO Home Run Champion).

Frater Perdurabo
01-03-2005, 02:57 PM
(Final Four Web Gem sponsored by Zales, BALCO Home Run Champion).

OK, maybe not BALCO Home Run Champion.... :redneck

idseer
01-03-2005, 03:19 PM
Me too. When I first read it a few months ago, I thought it was crazy. But PHG is crazy like a fox and this idea is just "crazy" enough that it would be a wild success.

It satisfies the purists yet has plenty of gimmicks. It has the fun and excitement of the NCAA basketball tournament that allows for a "Cinderella" team to go on a tear and capture the hearts and minds of baseball fans around the country but separates the "cheap champs" from the truly exceptional teams (who would need to win both). Most importantly, it gives baseball fans throughout the country - including in Kansas City and Pittsburgh - plenty to argue about on talk radio.

It's also double the marketing opportunities: You could sell the naming rights to the tournament brackets to corporations located in the city/state that hosts each round. The "Ericcson Regionals," the "Qwest Quarterfinal," etc. It could be the "Chevrolet Commissioners Cup" as well. This revenue could be shared equally among all teams, in inverse proportion to payrolls (revenue-sharing), or be disbursed to the teams who make the cut (profit motive for players to help the team win). It also provides opporunities to sell naming rights to all the individual performance categories (Final Four Web Gem sponsored by Zales, BALCO Home Run Champion).
yuck and YUCK!

everything being done based on how to squeeze the most money from the people who support the game is downright evil imo. it tends to suck it dry till it's dead.

corporate america. YUCK!

Frater Perdurabo
01-03-2005, 04:52 PM
yuck and YUCK!

everything being done based on how to squeeze the most money from the people who support the game is downright evil imo. it tends to suck it dry till it's dead.

corporate america. YUCK!

I don't like the crass commercialism either, but they might as well make lemonade out of the lemons. Of course, I don't expect the marketing geniuses in Selig's office to have a clue about how to change a lightbulb, much less anything else.

PaleHoseGeorge
01-03-2005, 05:48 PM
The fact that we're arguing about a World Series and then a GAMES afterwards is a joke. ....
Temper... temper.... easy on the xenophobia, my friend.
:wink:

Like I said from the very start... you wouldn't want to hear it.
:cool:

PaleHoseGeorge
01-03-2005, 05:50 PM
everything being done based on how to squeeze the most money from the people who support the game is downright evil imo. it tends to suck it dry till it's dead.

corporate america. YUCK! :rodneydangerfield
"What, are you religious or something?"

Let's just hold the World Series in id's backyard. We wouldn't want MONEY to spoil professional sports.
:tongue:

PaleHoseGeorge
01-03-2005, 05:58 PM
Me too. When I first read it a few months ago, I thought it was crazy. But PHG is crazy like a fox and this idea is just "crazy" enough that it would be a wild success.
I'm changing my username to PH"crazylikeafox"G.
:wink:

It satisfies the purists yet has plenty of gimmicks. It has the fun and excitement of the NCAA basketball tournament that allows for a "Cinderella" team to go on a tear and capture the hearts and minds of baseball fans around the country but separates the "cheap champs" from the truly exceptional teams (who would need to win both). Most importantly, it gives baseball fans throughout the country - including in Kansas City and Pittsburgh - plenty to argue about on talk radio.

It's also double the marketing opportunities: You could sell the naming rights to the tournament brackets to corporations located in the city/state that hosts each round. The "Ericcson Regionals," the "Qwest Quarterfinal," etc. It could be the "Chevrolet Commissioners Cup" as well. This revenue could be shared equally among all teams, in inverse proportion to payrolls (revenue-sharing), or be disbursed to the teams who make the cut (profit motive for players to help the team win). It also provides opporunities to sell naming rights to all the individual performance categories (Final Four Web Gem sponsored by Zales, BALCO Home Run Champion). Now that's the spirit, Frater! You could be a major league baseball owner thinking like this!
:wink:

There isn't a single plan discussed in this entire thread that does more to rake in the cash for both owners and players alike... the fans' increased entertainment is the key to its success.
:thumbsup:

And as a practical matter, there is no plan that ever gets implemented without the approval of both owners and players. Our idea solves that problem, too.

I'm lovin' this more and more...
:cool:

eshunn2001
01-03-2005, 06:02 PM
I don't want to see any teams added to the playoffs. Getting into the post season should be a reward for a great regular season. Teams with win totals in the low 80's should go home where they belong.

It will never happen but I loved when just the two division winners met in the playoffs. I like playoffs shorter not longer. The playoffs in the NBA and NHL are a complete joke. The NFL isn't much better. They are just ripping fans off with this nonsense.
I am not a hockey fan at all, But they have one of the most exciting playoffs in all of sports, Hands Down. And tell me you did not love when the Bulls were Running through the #8 team in the the Playoffs back in the 90's. I sure did. More teams in the playoffs keep more cities fans interested for a longer time.

idseer
01-03-2005, 06:05 PM
I'm lovin' this more and more...
:cool:
you're in a mood aren't you? :smile:

well enjoy it while you can. there's about as much chance of this happening as there is dismantling the hall of fame and replacing it with a system that makes sense. :D:

PaulDrake
01-03-2005, 07:28 PM
I am not a hockey fan at all, But they have one of the most exciting playoffs in all of sports, Hands Down. And tell me you did not love when the Bulls were Running through the #8 team in the the Playoffs back in the 90's. I sure did. More teams in the playoffs keep more cities fans interested for a longer time. Yes but do you want to see baseball on Christmas Day? Or do you want to greatly shorten the regular season?

Frater Perdurabo
01-04-2005, 09:51 AM
1.) Eliminate all divisions and wild-card spots. Set up two 16-team leagues, AL and NL.

2.) Shorten the regular season to 90 games, each team playing IDENTICAL SCHEDULES against their 15 league opponents 6 times (3 home, 3 away). Play these games in April, May, and August through Labor Day.

We must add two teams to the AL to make two 16-team leagues. I suggest adding a team to the NYC metro area in New Jersey (the area supported 3 MLB teams on a much smaller population decades ago - Yankees, Dodgers, Giants) and one in Havana, Cuba.. This has the benefit of ending, once and for all, American presidents' collective fetish of trying to outlast Fidel Castro. As soon as the U.S. ends its embargo of Cuba, Fidel will fall.

AL = White Sox, Yankees, Red Sox, Blue Jays, Twins, Orioles, Mariners, Angels, Athletics, Rangers, Tigers, Indians, Devil Rays, Royals, New Jersey, Havana.

NL = Cubs, Cadinals, Brewers, Pirates, Phillies, Mets, Nationals, Reds, Marlins, Diamondbacks, Braves, Rockies, Giants, Dodgers, Padres, Astros.

As for the geographic divisions for the Commissioners Cup tournament, may I suggest the following divisions:

"Microsoft" Northwest = Mariners, Athletics, Giants, Rockies
"Southwest Airlines" Southwest = Angels, Dodgers, Padres, Diamondbacks
"Dell" South Central = Rangers, Astros, Cardinals, Royals
"Archer Daniels Midland" North Central = Sox, Cubs, Brewers, Twins

"Time-Warner" Southeast = Braves, Devil Rays, Marlins, Havana
"Lincold Financial" Mid-Atlantic = Orioles, Nationals, Pirates, Phillies
"Citibank" Northeast = Yankees, Mets, Red Sox, New Jersey
"Ford" Great Lakes = Blue Jays, Reds, Indians, Tigers

The top two teams in each division qualify for the "J.P. Morgan Chase" for the "Chevrolet" Commissioners Cup as described by PHcrazylikeafoxGeorge.

The player who hits the most homers wins the "Home Run Inn Pizza Hank Aaron Award." Highest OBP gets the "Bush's Baked Beanes Prize." (When Duke the Dog says "Roll that beautiful Beane footage," we'll see video clips of Mark Kotsay taking pitches hoping to generate a walk.) Team that scores the most runs wins the "Imodium AD Runs Award." High school and college players can be brought into the pros through the "Guinness Draft." The possibilities are endless!

idseer
01-04-2005, 10:51 AM
The possibilities are endless!
and dumb!

Mickster
01-04-2005, 11:21 AM
We must add two teams to the AL to make two 16-team leagues. I suggest adding a team to the NYC metro area in New Jersey (the area supported 3 MLB teams on a much smaller population decades ago - Yankees, Dodgers, Giants) and one in Havana, Cuba.. This has the benefit of ending, once and for all, American presidents' collective fetish of trying to outlast Fidel Castro. As soon as the U.S. ends its embargo of Cuba, Fidel will fall.
I'm certain JR would love to own a MLB team in Havana, Cuba. His payroll would only be in the hundreds per year.....:D:

PaleHoseGeorge
01-04-2005, 10:01 PM
.....

AL = White Sox, Yankees, Red Sox, Blue Jays, Twins, Orioles, Mariners, Angels, Athletics, Rangers, Tigers, Indians, Devil Rays, Royals, New Jersey, Havana.

NL = Cubs, Cadinals, Brewers, Pirates, Phillies, Mets, Nationals, Reds, Marlins, Diamondbacks, Braves, Rockies, Giants, Dodgers, Padres, Astros.

As for the geographic divisions for the Commissioners Cup tournament, may I suggest the following divisions:

"Microsoft" Northwest = Mariners, Athletics, Giants, Rockies
"Southwest Airlines" Southwest = Angels, Dodgers, Padres, Diamondbacks
"Dell" South Central = Rangers, Astros, Cardinals, Royals
"Archer Daniels Midland" North Central = Sox, Cubs, Brewers, Twins

"Time-Warner" Southeast = Braves, Devil Rays, Marlins, Havana
"Lincold Financial" Mid-Atlantic = Orioles, Nationals, Pirates, Phillies
"Citibank" Northeast = Yankees, Mets, Red Sox, New Jersey
"Ford" Great Lakes = Blue Jays, Reds, Indians, Tigers

.... Inspired by Frater, here's a realistic look at how the 2004 baseball season would have played out for Sox Fans if MLB had already implemented my exciting 162-game schedule of league and tournament championship seasons. It's pretty big, so we'll break it up into parts.
:cool:

Part I. (April - May)

The 104th American League season begins April 1. Finally, MLB will return a perfectly balanced league schedule (the first in 35 years): 90 games = 15 opponents x 6 games (3 home, 3 away).

The Sox stumble out of the blocks, starting the season with a 9-game road trip in Yankee Stadium, followed by Boston and Toronto. They're 2-7 by the time they arrive in Chicago to host Minnesota in the home opener. Buehrle pitches his heart out but Johan Santana is unhittable and the Sox fall 7-1. "Same old Sox," scream the nabobs of negativity at WSI. The Sox limp through April playing tough A.L. opponents, reaching May 1 with a 10-17 record (.370) and buried in 12th place.
:?:

May is better as the Sox sweep 3 games in Tampa, then go 8-1 at the Cell over KC and new expansion teams, the New Jersey Suburbanites and the Havana Cigars. A big Memorial Day weekend inside the HumpDome leaves Sox Fans disappointed as the Twins narrowly lose the first game but then mercilessly spank the Sox in the next two games.
:redface:

The Sox finish the first leg of the A.L. pennant chase with a 29-28 record (.508) in a tie for 6th place, hopelessly trailing the Boston Red Sox by 10 games. WSI posters are calling for Ozzie's head, and the doom and gloomers are blaming Uncle Jerry while the Friends of Billy Beane question Kenny Williams' baseball smarts. All is lost.
:(:

But a whole new season is now upon us!

ON TO PART II!

PaleHoseGeorge
01-04-2005, 10:02 PM
Part II. (June-July)

It's a whole new season as the Commissioner's Cup tournament schedule begins June 1. The Sox are playing in the ADM North Central Division, one of eight divisions of four teams, playing an identical schedule of 72 games with 3 division rivals: Milwaukee, Minnesota, and the hated Lovable Losers. Each North Central team will play 48 intra-division games (16 per each of 3 opponents) plus another 24 inter-division games with the Dell Computer South Central division teams (St. Louis, Houston, Texas, and Kansas City). That's six games x 4 teams = 24 games (3 home/3 away). Next year the Sox and the rest of the North Central will play the Citibank Northeast Division because MLB rotates the divisions every year.
:cool:

The Cell can't contain the excitement as the Sox host the Flubs for 3 games to kick-off the tournament, taking 2 of 3 games, the highlight being a Carlos Lee walk-off dinger off Zambrano to win the deciding game. The Sox make a trip to St. Louis and the Lone Star state, then host these teams again at the Cell. The finish a successful June with a 15-12 record (.529) just ahead of the Cubs for second-place (3 games behind Minnesota) and in position for an October playoff run.
:thumbsup:

The Sox travel to the Urinal for the 4th of July weekend taking another 2 of 3 from the Lovable Losers and into sole possession of 2nd place. The all-star break is next and nobody wins home-field advantage because Commissioner Bud Selig has been fired and the new commissioner decrees that home-field will rotate between each league champion like it used to. WSI posters laugh out loud when Scammin' Shammy So-so is discovered in the N.L. clubhouse rubbing down his biceps with a bottle of The Clear. He claims he thought it was just flaxseed oil. Jay Mariotti gets fired at the Sun-Times. Sox Fans laugh about that one, too.
:bandance:

July continues with more Commissioner's Cup games, including a stirring 7-2 homestand over the Flubs, Milwaukee, and Minnesota. The city is a quiver as the Sox and Cubs finish the month with identical tournament records of 27-24 (.529). The final September leg will decide which Chicago team makes the tournament and WSI posters are busy buying the remaining tickets for the final 12 home games at the Cell.
:smile:

Just one piece of business to finish first... the American League pennant chase is here!

Part III. (August, through Labor Day)

Sox Fans have been impressed with the play of the team the last 8 weeks, but August is a bit of a letdown. The Sox only manage 16 wins in the final 33 A.L. games. They finish a perfectly mediocre record of 45-45 (.500) in 7th place. The real story is back East where an unbelievable surge by the Yankees catches Boston from behind to capture the pennant by 1 measly game, the issue not decided until Labor Day, the last day of the league season. Meanwhile St. Louis cruises to the N.L. pennant and fans in both championship cities start buying up tickets for the well-deserved October World Series their teams have earned.
:cool:

ON TO PART IV!

PaleHoseGeorge
01-04-2005, 10:04 PM
Part IV. (September)

Just 21 games are left in the tournament's first round and the Sox are Cubs are tied for the final playoff spot, including 6 head-to-head games, 3 hosted on each side of town. FarWest buys another dedicated server to handle the crush of newbie posters at WSI.
:o:

The Sox complete the big 12-game final homestand with a blistering 8-4 record, but the Cubs are still just 2 games back. So the nine final games start with a big 3-game stand at the Urinal where the Sox SWEEP the Lovable Losers! Willie Harris hits a dinger that barely catches the front lip of the Urinal's right field basket in the top of the ninth to complete the humiliation of the Flubs and their rabble of loser fans inside their own pisshole of a ballpark. The Sox split their final 6 games in Milwaukee (mostly populated with traveling Sox Fans) and Minnesota. The Sox final tournament record is 39-33 (.542), good enough for second place, 7 behind the Twins.
:bandance:

The Sox advance to Round 2 of the Commissioner's Cup and a 1-game playoff inside the HumpDome for the second week in October. WSI sets yet another daily record of visitors. Even idseer is impressed.
:redface:

Part V (October)

The two undisputed best teams in baseball face off in the World Series for the first time since 1968. No playoffs or wild cards have polluted the Fall Classic, and both league champions, New York and St. Louis, beat every league rival straight up across a perfectly-balanced schedule. Baseball purists are wetting their pants in anticipation!

Like most years, a defining do-or-die game 7 never comes as Cardinals starter Chris Carpenter pitches 7 scoreless innings to nail down the world championship over the Yankees, 4 games to 2. The entire series is over by October 7.
:cool:

Now it gets *really* interesting. Four consecutive nights of doubleheader 1-game playoff series begin in prime time on Fox. Each of these 8 games sends the loser home for the winter. The final 3 nights' games exceed the TV ratings for any of the World Series games. On the third night in the early game, Mark Buehrle outduels Brad Radke and Frank Thomas draws a ninth inning walk to force in the winning run as the Sox eliminate the Twins, 3-2. CHICAGO GOES NUTS AS THE SOX WIN! Meanwhile the editors at the Cubune are going to press with installment #3 of their 10-part special series, "Baseball Nirvana: The Unique Smells of Wrigley." Editor Ann Marie Lipinski is quoted by ace reporter Gary Washburn that the Tribune is not biased...
:wink:

For Sox Fans it's off to host city Miami where Round 3 is being held the next 12 days. The Sox qualify along with 7 other division champions: Colorado (shock winners over Oakland and the Friends of Billy Beane), St. Louis, Atlanta (Tampa Bay's Cinderella-like 10-game winning streak comes to an end), Philadelphia, Cleveland, ... and BOSTON -- down by 3 runs in the top of the ninth to the Yankees, a HBP, a stolen base and six innings of relief by knuckleballer Derek Lowe to hold the Yanks scoreless finally ends in the 16th inning when David Ortiz hits a solo dinger through the Bronx darkness and into the monuments, landing on Babe Ruth's head.
:wink:

WSI sets up a hospitality suite in South Beach (okay, it's really just a cabana filled with beer next to the hotel pool) and everyone travels to F-L-A to join the party -- even guest of honor, idseer, 2 days traveling on Amtrak from Pennsylvania. ProPlayer Stadium is a giant baseball festival. WinningUgly wins a trip to DisneyWorld when he successfully throws a brushback pitch to Tony the Tiger at the Kelloggs Cereal Pavillion.
:thumbsup:

WSIers bust up all the hotel furniture when a group of Braves fans try to steal our Leinenkugels and replace it with Bud. WhiteSoxFan84 nearly gets beat up in Little Havana after making disparaging remarks about foreign cultures, but Hangar bails him out just in the nick of time.

Unfortunately, the Sox aren't fairing nearly as well as we would hope. In their seven games of the round robin, the Sox only win 2 and are eliminated. Nobody cares... we're too hungover... and we've spent all our money. PHG loans idseer $50 for bus fare back to State College, PA.
:wink:

Boston and St. Louis are the finalists in the tournament, each owning a 6-1 record. Sunday night October 31 is the championship, do-or-die for the Commissioner's Cup. LaRussa's boys are wound just a bit too tight (as usual) and the Red Sox spank the Cards 10-1. New Commissioner of Baseball, Bill Clinton, hands the trophy to Boston owner Charles Somer, and manager Terry Francona. The following afternoon Bill is spotted with Paris Hilton on the yacht Monkey Business. Hillary has been embarrassed enough; she files for divorce -- then announces her candidacy for '08.
:thumbsup:

Yes -- truly the excitement has just begun!
:supernana:

FarWestChicago
01-04-2005, 10:14 PM
Yes -- truly the excitement has just begun!Wow!! I'm a believer. http://www.flyingsock.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/cool.gif

idseer
01-04-2005, 10:27 PM
Part IV. (September)
Yes -- truly the excitement has just begun!
isaac azimov couldn't have done better. sci fi is one of my favorite reads. :D:

FarWestChicago
01-04-2005, 10:40 PM
isaac azimov couldn't have done better. sci fi is one of my favorite reads. :D:Yeah, you got a free bus ticket and I had to buy a new server! http://www.flyingsock.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/eek.gif

idseer
01-05-2005, 07:38 AM
Yeah, you got a free bus ticket and I had to buy a new server! http://www.flyingsock.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/eek.gif
it wasn't free ... it was a loan at 50% a week interest! :mad:

Frater Perdurabo
01-05-2005, 08:52 AM
Yes -- truly the excitement has just begun!
:supernana:


Excellent reading!

:gulp:

PaleHoseGeorge
01-05-2005, 09:26 AM
it wasn't free ... it was a loan at 50% a week interest! :mad:
Pfft... like I'll ever see you or my money again. It's not like I have Tony Soprano's collection agency.
:wink:

:sopranos
"Fergettaboutit, PHG. We don't go anywhere we need a map to find."

voodoochile
01-05-2005, 09:27 AM
Excellent reading!

:gulp:
I totally agree.

I feel like I should burst into song...

Maybe it's the name of the yacht that inspired this...

I'm in love.... I'm a believer...:tongue:

Go George! Go George!

TornLabrum
01-05-2005, 09:31 AM
I just kind of look at this as "the dumb thread that refuses to die."

Baby Fisk
01-05-2005, 01:35 PM
I just kind of look at this as "the dumb thread that refuses to die."I think PHG won't let it die. He's trying to wear us down until everyone supports his radical post-season concepts and promotes them vocally. Hey PHG, where do the Marquess of Queensbury rules fit in? What about Stableford Scoring? or does the observance of that system fall under the prerogative of the crew chief of each particular game, in consultation with the board of approvals for each post season series?

*** am I talking about? Oh no, I've gone cross-eyed! :nuts:

Frater Perdurabo
01-05-2005, 01:45 PM
This proposal is not so weird as it may seem. Similar arguments were raised against the DH and against making four balls a walk. This plan simultaneously preserves tradition while maximizing national interest and increases revenues.

The only thing PHG doesn't address is the DH rule. How would that work in the Chevrolet Commissioners Cup tournament? I would propose going to the DH throughout both leagues and in the tournament. Or, for a real gimmick, to satisfy the traditionalists we can eliminate the DH in American League play to make it the same as the NL, but keep the DH for all tournament play.
:cool:

Frater Perdurabo
01-05-2005, 01:46 PM
And with that,

:tomatoaward

PaleHoseGeorge
01-05-2005, 06:29 PM
I just kind of look at this as "the dumb thread that refuses to die."
You secretly love this plan... sentimental old goat of a baseball purist that you are... a return to the pure pennant races of days of yore...

You only wish I would add Sunday doubleheaders and Ladies' Day promotions to the scheme... 5 cents to ride the trolley down 35th!
:cool:

PaleHoseGeorge
01-05-2005, 06:35 PM
This proposal is not so weird as it may seem. Similar arguments were raised against the DH and against making four balls a walk. This plan simultaneously preserves tradition while maximizing national interest and increases revenues.

The only thing PHG doesn't address is the DH rule. How would that work in the Chevrolet Commissioners Cup tournament? I would propose going to the DH throughout both leagues and in the tournament. Or, for a real gimmick, to satisfy the traditionalists we can eliminate the DH in American League play to make it the same as the NL, but keep the DH for all tournament play.

I honestly hadn't thought about the implications of the DH rule, but I love your idea. Use the DH in all tournament games and don't use it in any of the league games. I think new Baseball Commissioner Clinton would agree with us, too.
:wink:

You definitely grasp the concept, Frater. Keep all the old baseball traditions (including no DH) for the league season and World Series. Meanwhile all the new-fangled silly excitement borrowed from the NFL would be sewn together in the Commissioner's Cup tournament.

Something for everybody...

A chicken in every pot!
:cool:

Frater Perdurabo
01-06-2005, 03:01 PM
Something for everybody...

A chicken in every pot!
:cool:

Guns and Butter!

Frater Perdurabo
01-06-2005, 03:22 PM
Guns and Butter!

We probably could cure the federal budget deficit with the increased revenues, as well.

santo=dorf
01-06-2005, 03:43 PM
Guns and Butter!
OMG!!!!!!

It's ECON 103 again!!! Is that a reference to economical analyst, Richard Gill?

Frater Perdurabo
01-06-2005, 03:52 PM
OMG!!!!!!

It's ECON 103 again!!! Is that a reference to economical analyst, Richard Gill?

While I too enjoyed Richard Gill's musings and pontifications (in high school econ, though), twas not an intentional Gill reference. One can find that cliche in any study of U.S. budget policy - especially during the post-WWII era. Thanks for the trip down memory lane, though. :cool:

PaulDrake
01-06-2005, 04:11 PM
Guns and Butter! Didn't LBJ try that? Oh No! Are we on our way to the Roadhouse with that comment? :o:

PaleHoseGeorge
01-06-2005, 04:20 PM
A certain MLB owner (who shall remain nameless) has publicly claimed the economics of baseball are all screwed up. As a result we baseball fans have endured 35 years of the worst strikes and lockouts of any professional sports league. Is it any wonder baseball's popularity has been eclipsed by other sports better managed to avoid these dibilitating labor/management wars?

Every solution I've seen in this thread (save for one) either rips away even more revenue from the sport (e.g. id's Flat-Earth proposals) or relies on even more gimmicks to bring in a few more barely-worthy teams into the post-season. Meanwhile the owners and players exchange band-aid approaches to sharing existing revenue only.

The sport of baseball needs MORE REVENUE.
MORE REVENUE raises all boats.
Grow revenue and sharing more of it becomes painless!

The traditional league season and the tournament cup is the only proposal that generates MORE REVENUE. The fact it gives both "baseball traditionalists" as well as the NFL-like "gimmick fans" more to cheer for is strictly a bonus...

And yet I'm the crackpot for pointing this out.
:cool:

PaulDrake
01-06-2005, 04:38 PM
A certain MLB owner (who shall remain nameless) has publicly claimed the economics of baseball are all screwed up. As a result we baseball fans have endured 35 years of the worst strikes and lockouts of any professional sports league. Is it any wonder baseball's popularity has been eclipsed by other sports better managed to avoid these dibilitating labor/management wars?

Every solution I've seen in this thread (save for one) either rips away even more revenue from the sport (e.g. id's Flat-Earth proposals) or relies on even more gimmicks to bring in a few more barely-worthy teams into the post-season. Meanwhile the owners and players exchange band-aid approaches to sharing existing revenue only.

The sport of baseball needs MORE REVENUE.
MORE REVENUE raises all boats.
Grow revenue and sharing more of it becomes painless!

The traditional league season and the tournament cup is the only proposal that generates MORE REVENUE. The fact it gives both "baseball traditionalists" as well as the NFL-like "gimmick fans" more to cheer for is strictly a bonus...

And yet I'm the crackpot for pointing this out.
:cool: We are inundated with a host of vacuous cliches in the modern world. That being said your proposal is truly "thinking outside the box" and I mean that with absolutely no teal. I'm still sorting it all out in my grouchy, traditionalist old fogey brain. Does anybody remember comedian Arte Johnson on the old Laugh In show with Rowan and Martin? Verrrrry interesting.

idseer
01-06-2005, 04:53 PM
Every solution I've seen in this thread (save for one) either rips away even more revenue from the sport (e.g. id's Flat-Earth proposals) or relies on even more gimmicks to bring in a few more barely-worthy teams into the post-season. Meanwhile the owners and players exchange band-aid approaches to sharing existing revenue only.

:cool: you realize of course my suggestion was more a 'if it were a perfect world' idea than a thought that it could in fact be done this way.
obviously we are way beyond that possibility, as i think i suggested.
it was the way i'd prefer to see it, not the way to realistically change the status quo.

realistically i think 4 divisions, a playoff in each league then 2 teams in a world series would actually be workable. even this is improbable as talking this backward step is akin to expecting basaball prices to come back down.

PaleHoseGeorge
01-06-2005, 05:09 PM
you realize of course my suggestion was more a 'if it were a perfect world' idea than a thought that it could in fact be done this way..... No, I understand where you're coming from. I agree a perfect world ignores reality. Unfortunately a lot of suggestions around here merely pretend the reality baseball faces should be taken into account when serious issues (like revenue sharing and waning fan interest in the sport) need to be addressed.
:cool:

This isn't some abstract problem worthy of only impractical solutions. Baseball has serious problems, and the conventional wisdom I've read here (and have seen implemented by that moron Bud Selig) has only made the problem worse... for 30+ years baseball's revenue problems have grown, but especially the last 10+ years.
:o:

No "playoff solution" gets implemented without approval of the owners and players. Don't expect either side to forfeit one thin dime they currently earn under the system too many around here complain about.
:(:

REAL playoff solutions exist, but only one serious suggestion has been made here. So naturally I'm the crackpot who suggested it.
:cool:

idseer
01-06-2005, 06:32 PM
No, I understand where you're coming from. I agree a perfect world ignores reality. Unfortunately a lot of suggestions around here merely pretend the reality baseball faces should be taken into account when serious issues (like revenue sharing and waning fan interest in the sport) need to be addressed.
:cool:

This isn't some abstract problem worthy of only impractical solutions. Baseball has serious problems, and the conventional wisdom I've read here (and have seen implemented by that moron Bud Selig) has only made the problem worse... for 30+ years baseball's revenue problems have grown, but especially the last 10+ years.
:o:

No "playoff solution" gets implemented without approval of the owners and players. Don't expect either side to forfeit one thin dime they currently earn under the system too many around here complain about.
:(:

REAL playoff solutions exist, but only one serious suggestion has been made here. So naturally I'm the crackpot who suggested it.
:cool: but i don't see your suggestion as being any more serious than anyone else's. do you actually believe baseball would make that radical a change? :?:
puh-leeze! you suggestion has about as much chance as my pie-in-the-sky one does. at least mine has a baseball history behind it. :cool:

perhaps a competing baseball league might try something like that, but i doubt mlb would have any trouble keeping the status quo. :(:

PaleHoseGeorge
01-06-2005, 06:53 PM
but i don't see your suggestion as being any more serious than anyone else's. do you actually believe baseball would make that radical a change? :?:
It generates revenue... not in some tiny increment, but in GIANT fashion... not just in October, but in August and September, too...

It generates GIANT new revenue not just for one or two teams... but *every* franchise trying to keep fans interested enough to spend money till the bitter end of the season... just like Bears fans waiting for the Christmas present that never comes.

It's a crazy idea because it's the only one that addresses the real problems baseball faces... and Lord knows the people running baseball have been sticking their head in the sand for 30+ years to fix the problems the rest of us see plain as the nose on Bud's face.

Frater Perdurabo
01-07-2005, 10:19 AM
but i don't see your suggestion as being any more serious than anyone else's. do you actually believe baseball would make that radical a change? :?:
puh-leeze! you suggestion has about as much chance as my pie-in-the-sky one does. at least mine has a baseball history behind it. :cool:

perhaps a competing baseball league might try something like that, but i doubt mlb would have any trouble keeping the status quo. :(:

I think we all realize that very few of us have the necessary clout to get five minutes of time with Bud Selig and Donald Fehr anytime soon, so in that sense, all of our ideas are "pie in the sky."

That being said, for the umpteenth time, George's idea preserves what the traditionalists like about the World Series and the two different leagues while maintaing fan interest throughout the country for the entire season! What's not to like about that? While many of us would like a salary cap, it's not going to happen. So it's time to think outside the box already and capitalize on capitalism and gross commercialism to address the fundamental problems. So what if some of the ideas are "borrowed" from soccer? Soccer's the most popular sport in the world. Clearly soccer folks are doing something right. Clearly they know something that the MLB (and the NHL) don't.

:bandance: :supernana: :bandance: :supernana: :bandance:

idseer
01-07-2005, 12:20 PM
I think we all realize that very few of us have the necessary clout to get five minutes of time with Bud Selig and Donald Fehr anytime soon, so in that sense, all of our ideas are "pie in the sky."

That being said, for the umpteenth time, George's idea preserves what the traditionalists like about the World Series and the two different leagues while maintaing fan interest throughout the country for the entire season! What's not to like about that? While many of us would like a salary cap, it's not going to happen. So it's time to think outside the box already and capitalize on capitalism and gross commercialism to address the fundamental problems. So what if some of the ideas are "borrowed" from soccer?

because soccer isn't baseball! soccer doesn't seem to be all that big here, does it? who gives a crap about what soccer does? not me!

you talk about preserving something traditionalists like? splitting the season into 2 completely different competitions is NOT what traditionalists would like to see. all you're suggesting is trading one set of 'fundamental problems' for new 'outside the box' problems. forget all the 'fundamental' hitting and pitching records that would be screwed and distorted .... what about the fact that when all is said and done everyone is clamoring for 'A' champion? does the winner of one play off the winner of the other? or is it like ncaa and nit tournaments? do you really believe both systems will remain equal? and if you DO play the winner of each, what happens if one team wins both? no championship playoff that year?
and don't get me started on the idea of corperate team sponsorship and what that would lead to.
trust me on this. every serious baseball fan in the country would feel that baseball was truly dead. you would LOSE the market ... not expand it. you would make the game even more meaningless than it's already becoming.

it's very simple imo. you have 2 leagues. they play a season to determine which is the best team in each league. then, they play each other to determine who is the best team in the game.
anything else is a travishamockery as someone around here calls it.
i HATE the fact an underachieving team can come in at the end and become "champion", which is what playoffs and 'wildcard teams' eventually lead to.

baseball's greatest allure is it's history. and the idiots in charge of todays game have been chipping away at the game for far too long as it is.
dh's, allstar winner = home team in the ws, wildcards, all are gimmicks designed to attract the viewership of the average disinterested fan ... all at the expense of the integrity of the game. the quest for ever increasing profit has put the game itself at the bottom of the food chain. before long you'll see advertising signs on each base and on each player's back. colored baseballs, mines in the outfield .... cause all that matters is that people pay more and more to watch the spectacle. screw baseball ... all that matters is the circus atmosphere anymore.


whew! rant over. :smile:

TommyJohn
01-07-2005, 12:34 PM
because soccer isn't baseball! soccer doesn't seem to be all that big here, does it? who gives a crap about what soccer does? not me!

you talk about preserving something traditionalists like? splitting the season into 2 completely different competitions is NOT what traditionalists would like to see. all you're suggesting is trading one set of 'fundamental problems' for new 'outside the box' problems. forget all the 'fundamental' hitting and pitching records that would be screwed and distorted .... what about the fact that when all is said and done everyone is clamoring for 'A' champion? does the winner of one play off the winner of the other? or is it like ncaa and nit tournaments? do you really believe both systems will remain equal? and if you DO play the winner of each, what happens if one team wins both? no championship playoff that year?
and don't get me started on the idea of corperate team sponsorship and what that would lead to.
trust me on this. every serious baseball fan in the country would feel that baseball was truly dead. you would LOSE the market ... not expand it. you would make the game even more meaningless than it's already becoming.

it's very simple imo. you have 2 leagues. they play a season to determine which is the best team in each league. then, they play each other to determine who is the best team in the game.
anything else is a travishamockery as someone around here calls it.
i HATE the fact an underachieving team can come in at the end and become "champion", which is what playoffs and 'wildcard teams' eventually lead to.

baseball's greatest allure is it's history. and the idiots in charge of todays game have been chipping away at the game for far too long as it is.
dh's, allstar winner = home team in the ws, wildcards, all are gimmicks designed to attract the viewership of the average disinterested fan ... all at the expense of the integrity of the game. the quest for ever increasing profit has put the game itself at the bottom of the food chain. before long you'll see advertising signs on each base and on each player's back. colored baseballs, mines in the outfield .... cause all that matters is that people pay more and more to watch the spectacle. screw baseball ... all that matters is the circus atmosphere anymore.


whew! rant over. :smile:
Drag your knuckles across the ground, you backwards Neanderthal goon! :redneck

PaleHoseGeorge
01-07-2005, 01:04 PM
Figures all the xenophobes would be the ones to register the whiniest complaints.
:cool:

So here's the laundry list of the ALL-AMERICAN inspirations for this idea...

1-game playoff.
MLB itself, who've used them to decide tied league champions since 1901. The NFL has used it since the beginning of time, too. The NCAA basketball tournament, too. Gee, those aren't too popular in America, are they?
:kukoo:

Round Robin tournaments.
Gee, I bet everyone reading this has participated in a baseball round robin tournament at one time or another, even idseer back in that foreign country of rural Pennsylvania. What a hypocrite...

More than 1 "champion"?
Give me a freaking break... every American professional league awards multiple championships... including MLB's league champion "pennants" going back to the pre-Modern era (1800s-1901). And who can forget multiple awards without ANY PLAYOFFS for things like the NHL's President's Trophy (awarded to the team with the best regular season record). Why those ****ing foreigners!

The only thing strange or foreign about this system is that it has something for EVERYONE, most of all the owners and players who (ultimately) are the only ones who count. No playoff format gets implemented without their joint approval...

Baseball traditionalists and the NFL-like gimmick fans get exactly what they want because baseball's 162-game season is long enough to accommodate both and still have more games (and revenue) than any other sports league in the country. That's the good old USA I'm talking about.

Can you xenophobes finally stop whining already? (Fat chance)
:cool:

idseer
01-07-2005, 01:45 PM
Round Robin tournaments.
Gee, I bet everyone reading this has participated in a baseball round robin tournament at one time or another, even idseer back in that foreign country of rural Pennsylvania. What a hypocrite... of course i have played in those. those were the rules. how is it hypocritical to espouse a better way?
More than 1 "champion"?
Give me a freaking break... every American professional league awards multiple championships... including MLB's league champion "pennants" going back to the pre-Modern era (1800s-1901). And who can forget multiple awards without ANY PLAYOFFS for things like the NHL's President's Trophy (awarded to the team with the best regular season record). Why those ****ing foreigners! there are obviously degrees of champions, george. there is only ONE world champion, however. and it is this i am talking about. a pennant is NOT a world championship. in fact ALL the 'awards' in the world don't mean diddly compared to THEE championship. it's why football has a final champion, it's why hockey and basketball have final champions. you are mixing apples and oranges here, george. anyone can tell the difference.

The only thing strange or foreign about this system is that it has something for EVERYONE, most of all the owners and players who (ultimately) are the only ones who count. No playoff format gets implemented without their joint approval... ever here the saying "you can't please everyone"? it's an old saying for good reason. i say your plan is diluted trying to please everyone and will fail because of it. your plan weakens the game, the season, the world series, the stats. all the crucial things that make bsaeball what it is.
by the way ... the owners and players are NOT the ones who count. we can all play baseball without them. they cannot make a living without us. the fan is the one who counts. the fan is the barometer of how interesting the sport is.



Can you xenophobes finally stop whining already? (Fat chance)
:cool: i don't think anyone's whining here. were trying to preserve the game we love and we differ with you and your 'plan'.

and isn't a xenophobe one who is afraid of aliens? :?:

voodoochile
01-07-2005, 01:51 PM
and isn't a xenophobe one who is afraid of aliens? :?:
Yes, but not as in ET - as in illegal aliens - or really anything from a different culture.

This is getting silly.

Either way, it ain't a gonna' happen...:rolleyes:

PaleHoseGeorge
01-07-2005, 01:55 PM
xen·o·phobe http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/JPG/pron.jpg (https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fsearch%3 Fr%3D2%26q%3DXenophobe) ( P ) Pronunciation Key (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/ahd4/pronkey.html) (zhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/ebreve.gifnhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/prime.gifhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/schwa.gif-fhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/omacr.gifbhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/lprime.gif, zhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/emacr.gifhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/prime.gifnhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/schwa.gif-)
n. A person unduly fearful or contemptuous of that which is foreign, especially of strangers or foreign peoples.

idseer
01-07-2005, 01:56 PM
xen·o·phobe http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/JPG/pron.jpg (https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fsearch%3 Fr%3D2%26q%3DXenophobe) ( P ) Pronunciation Key (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/ahd4/pronkey.html) (zhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/ebreve.gifnhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/prime.gifhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/schwa.gif-fhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/omacr.gifbhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/lprime.gif, zhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/emacr.gifhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/prime.gifnhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/schwa.gif-)
n. A person unduly fearful or contemptuous of that which is foreign, especially of strangers or foreign peoples.
same thing. :redneck

idseer
01-07-2005, 02:01 PM
Yes, but not as in ET - as in illegal aliens - or really anything from a different culture.

This is getting silly.

Either way, it ain't a gonna' happen...:rolleyes:
nope! it's not.

i actually like revolutionary ideas normally. but baseball .....?

remember james earl jones in field of dreams. while, on the one hand, his speech at the end was ridiculous .... there was a ring of truth to it. you just shouldn't mess with something this traditional. :smile:

Frater Perdurabo
01-07-2005, 02:03 PM
all you're suggesting is trading one set of 'fundamental problems' for new 'outside the box' problems. forget all the 'fundamental' hitting and pitching records that would be screwed and distorted ....

Records would be intact. It's still a 162-game regular season. Post-season numbers don't count in the regular season record books.

idseer
01-07-2005, 02:17 PM
Records would be intact. It's still a 162-game regular season. Post-season numbers don't count in the regular season record books.let me rephrase. one 90 game season and one 72 game season does not = 162 game season. they would invariably be separated.

FarWestChicago
01-07-2005, 02:27 PM
let me rephrase. one 90 game season and one 72 game season does not = 162 game season. they would invariably be separated.I don't see why. I see a 162 game season, thusly preserving record integrity (especially if 'roids were banned). http://www.flyingsock.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/cool.gif

MeanFish
01-07-2005, 02:29 PM
I don't see why. I see a 162 game season, thusly preserving record integrity (especially if 'roids were banned). http://www.flyingsock.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/cool.gif
Doesn't the All-Star game usually happen right around the 90 game mark?

Frater Perdurabo
01-07-2005, 02:31 PM
let me rephrase. one 90 game season and one 72 game season does not = 162 game season. they would invariably be separated.

They easily can be considered an organic hole for record book purposes, while each individual part qualifies teams for the World Series and the Chevrolet Commissioners Cup, respectively.

idseer
01-07-2005, 02:35 PM
ok. i've made my case.
thanks for listening. :smile:

PaleHoseGeorge
01-07-2005, 02:59 PM
I don't see why. I see a 162 game season, thusly preserving record integrity (especially if 'roids were banned). http://www.flyingsock.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/cool.gif The single-most important element of this plan is keeping 162 regular season games for every team, no matter how good or how bad they are. As always, playoff games are tracked separately.
:thumbsup:

As you note, this plan delivers more integrity to MLB's record book than Bud Selig's roid-induced TraveShaMockery of the last several years.
:cool:

:nandrolone
"Asterisks? Asterisks? We don't need no stinkin' asterisks!"