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broker3d
12-31-2004, 06:29 PM
There is no way that KW is done dealing and building this team. I mentioned a month ago the following moves(excluding Ugichi) and it is still possible, but yet a long shot.

a. sign Pierzynski
b. sign Cora (but it looks like Ugichi would be the better choice)
c. trade Pauly and Garland for Vazquez
d. sign Delgado

Yeah I know, it may be a pipe dream but still a possibility. the DBacks are still talking about spinning Vazquez. KW is working on AJ and Iguchi, with Cora as a 2b backup plan. We are still too heavy with right handed hitters. We need a big LH stick. Delgado is a perfect KW under the radar move.

The lineup would look something like this (with big hurt back)

Pods
rowand
Thomas
Delgado
Dye
Pierzynski
Uribe
Crede
Iguchi (or Cora)

Nice combo of speed and power, along with guys who can hit for average. I hate how we are currently so stacked with right handed hitters. we need to mix it up in the middle of the lineup.

Bench is something like this:

Timo
Everett
Gload
Harris
forgetting the rest

Rotation is:

Vazquez
Buehrle
Garcia
El Duque
Contreras

Bullpen:

Takatsu
Vizcaino
Marte
Pollite
Cotts
Hermanson
Grilli

I tried out my not so expert estimates for the salary that this would create. With the addition of AJ, Ugichi, Delgado and the subtraction of Pauly and Garland I estimate this to end up around 75+ Million (80 million on the high side). this is a team designed to win the division and make noise in the playoffs.

:supernana:

Shingotime!!
12-31-2004, 06:41 PM
As nice as that would be........

I dont see us signing Delgado

Vazquez is a long shot (but if u gave up Konerko and Garland u could get him but that would be WAY to much.

That iguchi guy dosnt seem all that great.

Whitesox029
12-31-2004, 06:55 PM
There is no way that KW is done dealing and building this team. I mentioned a month ago the following moves(excluding Ugichi) and it is still possible, but yet a long shot.

a. sign Pierzynski
b. sign Cora (but it looks like Ugichi would be the better choice)
c. trade Pauly and Garland for Vazquez
d. sign Delgado

Yeah I know, it may be a pipe dream but still a possibility. the DBacks are still talking about spinning Vazquez. KW is working on AJ and Iguchi, with Cora as a 2b backup plan. We are still too heavy with right handed hitters. We need a big LH stick. Delgado is a perfect KW under the radar move.
:supernana: While I enjoy your use of the banana, I agree with only one of your 4 propositions, that being "b."
"a." I do not like Pierzynski. Plain and simple. In addition, Burke is capable, in my opinion, of hitting .270 even if Davis isn't.
"c." Our rotation is set. we have 5 starters who, barring injury, will remain consistent throughout a full season. Why should we get rid of our third RBI machine so that we can have a small improvement in our rotation? The idea is stupid (not only that, but KW has expressly stated that Konerko will not be traded).
"d." Delgado is overrated and will probably not fit in the budget anyway. Plus I don't like him either.
As for "b." if we were to sign Cora/Iguchi (preferably the latter, as you said) I would be happy with our team heading into 2005....Actually I probably wouldn't mind Harris that much anyway....

broker3d
12-31-2004, 07:14 PM
You can't possibly say that trading our RBI machine would be stupid when I added Delgado. They wash each other out plus I add a much needed LH bat. I am not doing that for just one move it is part of the entire plan.

ChiWhiteSox1337
12-31-2004, 07:18 PM
Delgado said he wanted something around 4 years, $64 million. I don't think there's ANYONE worth that kind of money that the white sox could bring in.

broker3d
12-31-2004, 08:03 PM
he's not getting it, hence why he is not signed. The price is coming down.

OurBitchinMinny
12-31-2004, 08:37 PM
I really dont see the need to trade paulie and/or garland for vazquez. Vazquez has good stuff, but so does garland, for a lot cheaper. Garland is still young. Jason schmidt didnt really start doing anything until he was 27-28. Garland has good stuff and if (and its a big if) he can eliminate the big inning, he has #2, #3 stuff. The sox really have a chance to win every game he pitches. Very rarely doesnt he last an inning or two and give up 10 runs. He is not great, but he is young and keeps them in games. And since we dont have maggs or lee, who knows if thomas is ready and he has become very injury prone, I dont think trading paulie is a good idea. Id be hesitant to do PK for vazquez straight up, let alone throw a 25 year old with good stuff who is not a horrible pitcher

johnny_mostil
12-31-2004, 08:45 PM
"a." I do not like Pierzynski. Plain and simple. In addition, Burke is capable, in my opinion, of hitting .270 even if Davis isn't.

What makes you think he'll hit .270?

In 1998, Burke hit .244 at Midland and .216 at Vancouver.
In 1999, Burke hit .336 in 149 at bats in Edmonton.
In 2000, Burke hit .240 in 263 at bats in Edmonton.
In 2001, Burke hit .219 in Salt Lake City in 215 at bats.
In 2003, he hit .322 in Charlotte in 323 at bats.
In 2004, he hit .231 in Charlotte.

Burke has never hit a home run or a triple in the major leagues. He walks a little, but not enough; at .270 he would be a poor hitter. He has managed to put together some some nice partial seasons here and there, but his minor league career BA is .279, and he spent most of his time in the very hitter friendly PCL.

What worries me is projecting anybody as a major league player based on 140-odd plate appearances. He has performed admirably, I agree, but there is nothing in his history that says he should be relied upon as anything but depth.

RKMeibalane
12-31-2004, 09:29 PM
I have a request.

Can we please stop with the Vazquez and Delgado rumors? Please? I seriously doubt if either player will ever wear a White Sox uniform. Besides, the Sox rotation seems to already be set now that Hernandez is in the fold, and KW has stated numerous times that Paul Konerko isn't going anywhere, especially with Frank's status up in the air.

Thank you.

zach074
12-31-2004, 09:52 PM
Yeah I know, it may be a pipe dream but still a possibility. the DBacks are still talking about spinning Vazquez. KW is working on AJ and Iguchi, with Cora as a 2b backup plan. We are still too heavy with right handed hitters. We need a big LH stick. Delgado is a perfect KW under the radar move.



Whats wrong with you? This is the WSI boards your not supposed to be that optimistic.:tongue:

SEALgep
12-31-2004, 09:59 PM
What makes you think he'll hit .270?

In 1998, Burke hit .244 at Midland and .216 at Vancouver.
In 1999, Burke hit .336 in 149 at bats in Edmonton.
In 2000, Burke hit .240 in 263 at bats in Edmonton.
In 2001, Burke hit .219 in Salt Lake City in 215 at bats.
In 2003, he hit .322 in Charlotte in 323 at bats.
In 2004, he hit .231 in Charlotte.

Burke has never hit a home run or a triple in the major leagues. He walks a little, but not enough; at .270 he would be a poor hitter. He has managed to put together some some nice partial seasons here and there, but his minor league career BA is .279, and he spent most of his time in the very hitter friendly PCL.

What worries me is projecting anybody as a major league player based on 140-odd plate appearances. He has performed admirably, I agree, but there is nothing in his history that says he should be relied upon as anything but depth.He hit well when he came to the Sox last year.

StillMissOzzie
12-31-2004, 10:50 PM
"c." Our rotation is set. we have 5 starters who, barring injury, will remain consistent throughout a full season. Why should we get rid of our third RBI machine so that we can have a small improvement in our rotation? The idea is stupid (not only that, but KW has expressly stated that Konerko will not be traded).

KW has also publicly said that he didn't want AJ Piersdfkjski, but then he turns around and makes an offer. I wouldn't put a lot of stock in KW's public remarks.

SMO
:gulp:

voodoochile
01-01-2005, 01:22 AM
You know it's also possible that I will fart a smell so pretty that CoCo Channel herself will want to bottle it...:rolleyes:

Brian26
01-01-2005, 01:32 AM
There is no way that KW is done dealing and building this team.
For what its worth, Kenny was quoted in the paper this morning as saying, in essence, that the team he has assembled two weeks from now will probably be the team that comes out of spring training.

RKMeibalane
01-01-2005, 02:11 AM
For what its worth, Kenny was quoted in the paper this morning as saying, in essence, that the team he has assembled two weeks from now will probably be the team that comes out of spring training.
And I can't help getting the feeling that the team he has two weeks from now will be the exact same team he has as of this moment.

broker3d
01-01-2005, 08:29 AM
This is not the final team.

gosox41
01-01-2005, 08:34 AM
There is no way that KW is done dealing and building this team. I mentioned a month ago the following moves(excluding Ugichi) and it is still possible, but yet a long shot.

a. sign Pierzynski
b. sign Cora (but it looks like Ugichi would be the better choice)
c. trade Pauly and Garland for Vazquez
d. sign Delgado


:supernana:
It's a definite long shot but I like those ideas. Assuming Vazquez had a bad secondh alf last season, he is a definite upgrade over Garland. And I'd love to get Delgado because he is a very productive first baseman and he bats lefty. The Sox still lack a lefty power hitter.


Bob

mcfish
01-03-2005, 01:08 PM
c. trade Pauly and Garland for VazquezHow can so many people be so upset about the Lee trade and then others think that this is a good idea. Dump Konerko for a minor upgrade in the 5th starter spot? Sounds like an incredible trade opportunity.

Knucksie
01-03-2005, 02:43 PM
c. trade Pauly and Garland for Vazquez

Yeah I know, it may be a pipe dream but still a possibility. the DBacks are still talking about spinning Vazquez.

Rotation is:

Vazquez
Buehrle
Garcia
El Duque
Contreras

:supernana:

Could someone please explain to me why there would be such great interest in Vazquez? IMHO, he is not a quality #1. Probably more like a # 3 or #4.

$9 mil/year for 32 GS, 198 IP, 14-10 W-L, 33 HRs, and a 4.91 ERA.

Stop this talk please! I am hoping that the Vazquez talk out of the SOX camp is just one of KW's smoke screens. To give up Konerko for him would be a big mistake. Throwing in Garland would be way over the top. These are the kinds of deals that would kill the SOX.

I may not be the smartest, but the raw numbers of 14-10 and a 4.91 ERA for $9 mil can not be ignored.

JUribe1989
01-03-2005, 03:57 PM
I agree with the last statement. I saw Vazquez pitch numerous times and the only team he could dominate was the White Sox. He had a terrible second half and showed his inability to be a big game pitcher.

ARoman27
01-03-2005, 04:45 PM
Vazquez is nowhere near the talent level of what his inflated Yankee contract is paying him. He's yet to prove he can pitch in the AL and rumor has it that if he doesn't stay in AZ then he'll be going to another NL team. If not LA with Dioner Navarro for Shawn Green then some other NL team.

IMHO I think Garland could be very successful in the 5th spot in our rotation. All the pressure should be off Garland to do anything more then what he has given us the past 2 years. Which is double-digit wins and near 200 innings. If our 5th starter would of had those numbers in '04 it would of been a completely different season. To give up our clean-up hitter and Garland for an overpaid 5th starter who has yet to prove himself in the AL doesn't make much sense.

There should be some surprises in '05 with pitchers like Pavano, Jaret Wright, and Clement showing their new AL teams that they aren't worth what they're being paid. While Pedro goes back to the NL to dominate much the way Clemens did in Houston last year.

JUribe1989
01-03-2005, 04:54 PM
Apparently the Dodgers are getting a pretty good player in Dioner Navarro. This trade also gives the Diamondbacks a right fielder in Shawn Green. This was a much better trade for the Dodgers.

konerko1413
01-03-2005, 05:04 PM
While I enjoy your use of the banana, I agree with only one of your 4 propositions, that being "b."
"a." I do not like Pierzynski. Plain and simple. In addition, Burke is capable, in my opinion, of hitting .270 even if Davis isn't.
"c." Our rotation is set. we have 5 starters who, barring injury, will remain consistent throughout a full season. Why should we get rid of our third RBI machine so that we can have a small improvement in our rotation? The idea is stupid (not only that, but KW has expressly stated that Konerko will not be traded).
"d." Delgado is overrated and will probably not fit in the budget anyway. Plus I don't like him either.
As for "b." if we were to sign Cora/Iguchi (preferably the latter, as you said) I would be happy with our team heading into 2005....Actually I probably wouldn't mind Harris that much anyway....
I agree, big ben and burke will be fine, dazis has the best arm of all of them and with the way our pitching staff in general holds on runners, we need the strongest arm available, unless beuhrle's pitching. as for (d), i dont think delago is overratted, first i think he wants too much money (hes looking for a deal like sexson and beltre got - 5 years 55 million $) and konerko is way better, one the field, in the batters box and in the clubhouse and when thomas gets back we dont need a DH (remember that thomas always has a big year after he comes back from an injury (2 years ago- 42 hoomeruns)

the only way i see us signing delgado is if we trade konerko and that would be just plain stupid

Whitesox029
01-03-2005, 05:11 PM
You can't possibly say that trading our RBI machine would be stupid when I added Delgado. They wash each other out plus I add a much needed LH bat. I am not doing that for just one move it is part of the entire plan. You're probably right, but why pay $8 million extra for a "wash" as you put it? Especially when the fans like Paulie.

I want Mags back
01-03-2005, 05:35 PM
I personally belive we have the best staff in the AL right now. I also love Paul Konerko. To dump him and Garland for another pitcher is totally insane. Garland will be fine in the 5 hole



GO SOX

BRDSR
01-03-2005, 05:44 PM
[QUOTE=JUribe1989]Apparently the Dodgers are getting a pretty good player in Dioner Navarro. [QUOTE]

Noo...People with the last name "Navarro" can't be good baseball players...right?

bigfoot
01-03-2005, 06:13 PM
You know it's also possible that I will fart a smell so pretty that CoCo Channel herself will want to bottle it...:rolleyes:
VC, that musk(no typo) be one great pizza!

xxxxoooo CC Chanel

twsoxfan5
01-03-2005, 06:17 PM
I hope KW is not done and although I love your projected line-up, I do not think it is a reality. I think we may get AJ, but I am not sure if he will except our offer. IN my opinion right now he can fill the hole that needs to be filled the most. I do not think that Burke or Davis are starting catchers and I think we would be at a great disadvantage if one of them was behind the plate on opening day. I would also love to get Delgado and Vasquez, and would be willing to give up Konerko and Garland for them, but if that would put our payroll at about 75 million than there is no way. I believe, and correct me if I am wrong, that our payroll is about 65 million. If that is the case than Jerry will not be spending an extra 10 million. I would be very happy with this off-season if we signed AJ and Cora and even more happy if we signed AJ and Iguchi.

SuperSteve
01-03-2005, 06:39 PM
KW has also publicly said that he didn't want AJ Piersdfkjski, but then he turns around and makes an offer. I wouldn't put a lot of stock in KW's public remarks.

SMO Bring the price down maybe, fly under the radar possibly, an issue of playing time is a chance...there could be so many reasons. Money maybe. We may find out why KW said that, we may not, but I don't think it's because KW doesn't like the guy. I think if he feels he has a chance to improve the team, he would. Winning is the ultimate goal, and AJ could add fire to this team, aswell as some personality.

soxfan43
01-03-2005, 08:11 PM
speaking of flying under the radar, i hear herbert perry is a free agent

doublem23
01-03-2005, 09:27 PM
Apparently the Dodgers are getting a pretty good player in Dioner Navarro. This trade also gives the Diamondbacks a right fielder in Shawn Green. This was a much better trade for the Dodgers. Right. Don't believe the hype. The Yankees' farm system has produced only a small handful of talented MLB talent in the last decade, and most of the ones that were worth anything, they held on to. Aside from Alfonso Soriano, can anyone else name someone who was developed by the Yankees that lived up to the hype that surrounded them? D'Angelo Jimenez? Average. Ricky Ledee? Terrible. OK, I guess Eric Milton isn't half bad, but the Dodgers just gave up a guy who drove in 100+ runs last year for this kid. Just another chapter in the awful off-season Los Angeles is having.

Oh, I think the only move left to be made by the Sox would be signing A.J. Pierzynski. Aside from that, I wouldn't be all to surprised if this was the team that took the field Opening Day.

ChiWhiteSox1337
01-03-2005, 09:31 PM
Right. Don't believe the hype. The Yankees' farm system has produced only a small handful of talented MLB talent in the last decade, and most of the ones that were worth anything, they held on to. Aside from Alfonso Soriano, can anyone else name someone who was developed by the Yankees that lived up to the hype that surrounded them? D'Angelo Jimenez? Average. Ricky Ledee? Terrible. OK, I guess Eric Milton isn't half bad, but the Dodgers just gave up a guy who drove in 100+ runs last year for this kid. Just another chapter in the awful off-season Los Angeles is having.
Mike Lowell's the only guy I can think of that's been any decent after being shipped off by the Yankees. Other than Lowell, everyone's been mediocre or terrible. Cristian Guzman is also from the Yankees system, but he's mediocre at best. I have no clue why the nationals gave him all that money.