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View Full Version : Internet Rumor: Konerko and Garland for Vazquez?


jabrch
12-31-2004, 05:11 PM
Rotoworld, admittedly a questionable sports website in terms of having legitimate inside information, says were are willing to give up Paulie and Garland to get Vazquez.

While Vazquez is probably a legit #2 and would be a significant improvement over Garland (a legit #5), I wonder if this is worth weakening the offense so much. If there was a veteran 1B who we might get (Delgado?) this could make loads of sense - but other than Delgado (who I don't think would be Sox type signing) I don't see any. If we trade PK, that would mean Gload would be our only 1B option while Frank is out. That doesn't seem good to me.

That said, I'd love to have Vazquez - and not give up any top prospects to get him, if that's possible.
Thoughts?

voodoochile
12-31-2004, 05:14 PM
Can Dye or Everett play 1B?

Isn't this old news?

WhiteSoxFan84
12-31-2004, 05:17 PM
Did anyone listen when KW said he'd only trade Konerko for RJ or Shawn Green and Javier Vazquez?

Who likes my sig :D:

mdep524
12-31-2004, 05:17 PM
Rotoworld, admittedly a questionable sports website in terms of having legitimate inside information, says were are willing to give up Paulie and Garland to get Vazquez.

While Vazquez is probably a legit #2 and would be a significant improvement over Garland (a legit #5), I wonder if this is worth weakening the offense so much. If there was a veteran 1B who we might get (Delgado?) this could make loads of sense - but other than Delgado (who I don't think would be Sox type signing) I don't see any. If we trade PK, that would mean Gload would be our only 1B option while Frank is out. That doesn't seem good to me.

That said, I'd love to have Vazquez - and not give up any top prospects to get him, if that's possible.
Thoughts?
Paulie and Garland sounds like an old story that Rotoworld didn't bother to update. I doubt the Sox would go that route now. I wouldn't mind giving up a few prospects for Vazquez- maybe a package like Garland, Tracey and Young. If Arizona is willing, maybe we could give them Contreras instead of Garland- we could sell them on thew fact that he's our number 3 while Garland's only our number 5- make it look like an upgrade in our offer.

I've always been a Vazquez fan, so I'd still pursue this trade, but I have a feeling the Sox won't be involved at this point.

SomebodyToldMe
12-31-2004, 05:22 PM
Wasn't this mentioned a loooooooooooooooooong time ago? Are they just repeating the same article?

kittle42
12-31-2004, 05:36 PM
Did anyone listen when KW said he'd only trade Konerko for RJ or Shawn Green and Javier Vazquez?

Who likes my sig :D:
I thought we were calling for a moratorium on "guys in Sox hats but not on the team yet" photos since NONE of them have come here.

idseer
12-31-2004, 05:38 PM
i really wish we'd forget about vazquez. our staff is as good as we could have hoped for with this squad.
and it's beyond absurd to throw paul's name around like this anymore.;

Brian26
12-31-2004, 05:41 PM
Can Dye or Everett play 1B?

Isn't this old news?
No and Yes.

Brian26
12-31-2004, 05:42 PM
I thought we were calling for a moratorium on "guys in Sox hats but not on the team yet" photos since NONE of them have come here.
Yep, NONE of them. It's an automatic jinx. In this case, expect an announcement sometime tomorrow that Pierzinski has signed with the D-Rays.

Brian26
12-31-2004, 05:43 PM
For the record, trading PK for Vasquez at this point is a terrible move, let alone PK and Garland. These guys need to do their homework.

duke of dorwood
12-31-2004, 06:07 PM
I agree-it would be a disastrous trade

WhiteSoxFan84
12-31-2004, 06:18 PM
Yep, NONE of them. It's an automatic jinx. In this case, expect an announcement sometime tomorrow that Pierzinski has signed with the D-Rays.
Don't they have Toby Hall? Isn't he supposed to be pretty good? Why do they want A.J.? I don't see Lou Pinella campaigning to sign this guy.

mdep524
12-31-2004, 06:20 PM
i really wish we'd forget about vazquez. our staff is as good as we could have hoped for with this squad.
and it's beyond absurd to throw paul's name around like this anymore.;
Our staff is NOT as good as we can hope for. It would be better with Vazquez, significantly better. I don't think it will happen, because the price will likely be too high- any deal with Konerko involved is automatically too much (barring an even more unrealistic move to acquire a 1B- Huff, Delgado, etc.).

veeter
12-31-2004, 06:36 PM
I like the team right now. I want Paulie. I also have a feeling spring training is going to produce a suprise pitcher that will contribute. Maybe Felix Diaz, maybe Brandon Mccarthy I don't know but someone will emerge.

Whitesox029
12-31-2004, 07:00 PM
Rotoworld, admittedly a questionable sports website in terms of having legitimate inside information, says were are willing to give up Paulie and Garland to get Vazquez.

While Vazquez is probably a legit #2 and would be a significant improvement over Garland (a legit #5), I wonder if this is worth weakening the offense so much. If there was a veteran 1B who we might get (Delgado?) this could make loads of sense - but other than Delgado (who I don't think would be Sox type signing) I don't see any. If we trade PK, that would mean Gload would be our only 1B option while Frank is out. That doesn't seem good to me.

That said, I'd love to have Vazquez - and not give up any top prospects to get him, if that's possible.
Thoughts? I'd rather give up a "top prospect" than Konerko. Remember that Joe Borchard was once a "top prospect." So was Mike Caruso. And Matt Karchner.

NonetheLoaiza
12-31-2004, 07:02 PM
Unless we got some power to replace Paulie, we can't trade him. He is too big of a part of our offense as it sits right now. Without him, we don't have a real legitimate number 3 or 4 hitter (not counting Frank, since it looks like he might be out for awhile).

mdep524
12-31-2004, 07:10 PM
Konerko's not going anywhere. Doesn't matter what Rotoworld, or Boston Gammons or George Offman or anyone says. Book it. KW's not trading him.

We can make a very competitive offer for Vazquez without Konerko being involved. Garland/Contreras and a couple prospects could be as good as any other offer the DBacks receive. I still think its a longshot, but you never know.

HITMEN OF 77
12-31-2004, 07:21 PM
Moronotti probably tipped rotoworld off that the trade might go done. Konerko isn't going anywhere!!

idseer
12-31-2004, 09:23 PM
Our staff is NOT as good as we can hope for. It would be better with Vazquez, significantly better. I don't think it will happen, because the price will likely be too high- any deal with Konerko involved is automatically too much (barring an even more unrealistic move to acquire a 1B- Huff, Delgado, etc.).
and it would also be better with johnson, sheets, or many others. my whole POINT was that with THIS squad (considering cost, owner etc) a solid 1 thru 5 was as much as we could have hoped for. MORE in fact!

WhiteSoxNation
12-31-2004, 10:12 PM
Now i'd love to see this happen...But, with cash free'ed up if any, what can we do? I'd love to see us sign Delgado since it would give us another lefty which we sorly lack.

Delgado and Vazquez or Konerko and Garland.
Garland is still young but not much younger than JV. '
Go get him aslong as we get a solid FA hitter. . .

StillMissOzzie
12-31-2004, 10:45 PM
Two monthes ago, if someone had told practically ANYBODY here that the Sox had made a FA signing that would push Garland to the #5 spot, they'd be doing handsprings down State St. While Vasquez (sp?) would be a SP staff upgrade, I think that the price of Garland and Konerko is too high. The team has already lost too much power.

Keep Paulie!

SMO
:gulp:

Fredsox
01-01-2005, 07:05 AM
Two monthes ago, if someone had told practically ANYBODY here that the Sox had made a FA signing that would push Garland to the #5 spot, they'd be doing handsprings down State St. While Vasquez (sp?) would be a SP staff upgrade, I think that the price of Garland and Konerko is too high. The team has already lost too much power.

Keep Paulie!

SMO
:gulp:
We might want to keep him, but I'd be real disappointed if KW is done. We are NOT ready for the season as we sit and he has a lot of work to do. I agree that we're very much improved as a pitching staff, but are we world-class? Can we compete with NY, Boston, and the Angels? I think not yet. I'll move Paulie if the team is better as a whole by doing so. If KW's best judgment is that we are closer to a WS by trading PK, then let's do it.

idseer
01-01-2005, 10:32 AM
We might want to keep him, but I'd be real disappointed if KW is done. We are NOT ready for the season as we sit and he has a lot of work to do. I agree that we're very much improved as a pitching staff, but are we world-class? Can we compete with NY, Boston, and the Angels? I think not yet. I'll move Paulie if the team is better as a whole by doing so. If KW's best judgment is that we are closer to a WS by trading PK, then let's do it.
ever hear the saying 'you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear'? this team had precious little resources at the end of this past year. we weren't ABOUT to turn this team into a world class contender. i am amazed kw has been able to make the team competetive at all for this coming season. you can't keep ripping the best players off your team and trading up. it don't work that way. konerko is the last 'hero' this team has! we have reached the point of diminishing returns (unless you want to totally deplete the farm system which would be stupid). you can't keep tweaking the pitching staff by giving away you best everyday players.

the pitching staff is fine! better than it's been in a long time! this team is ready as it stands!

let's play ball!

johnny_mostil
01-01-2005, 10:46 AM
ever hear the saying 'you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear'? this team had precious little resources at the end of this past year. we weren't ABOUT to turn this team into a world class contender. i am amazed kw has been able to make the team competetive at all for this coming season. you can't keep ripping the best players off your team and trading up. it don't work that way.
Excellent points. A year ago, I expected 2005 to be the season the team fell off the cliff, but through a series of interesting moves, Kenny has changed a lot. He has built a kind of bridge over the next two seasons, where the White Sox will probably be competitive. This was needed, sadly, because of a profound failure in depth of several amateur drafts. By 2007 the current crop of "top prospects", most of whom are in A ball, will have either panned out or not.

I find it hard to give KW too much credit, since he dug the hole he has since climbed out of, but he did apparently climb out of it...

johnny_mostil
01-01-2005, 11:04 AM
...unless you want to totally deplete the farm system which would be stupid). you can't keep tweaking the pitching staff by giving away you best everyday players.
So far, how many of the players KW has traded for veterans have panned out for the receiving teams? Kip and Josh aren't really doing so well, Olivo still can't hit a righthanded pitcher, Webster and Ring were so highly thought of they were exposed in the Rule V draft, Hummel failed miserably in Cincinnati, Rauch didn't exactly seize the day... Miles was OK in Denver but nowhere near as good as Uribe was... the White Sox may have "depleted the farm system" at AAA level, but appears they did it by selling off what can only be described as a sick herd. If KW sold off his swaybacks and scarbacks for mostly boring but productive horses -- or nothing, in some cases -- as he has appeared to do, it's hard to criticize him.

And, what "best everyday players" did the Sox give away? Ordonez really "left us" the day he collided with Harris. Lee, I suppose, if you believe his 2004 season is sustainable. BUt, personally, I was never a candidate for President of the Caballo Cheering Club; I always thought of him as a pretty ordinary LF type who got a lot of extra credit because the White Sox are surrounded by people who don't understand context. Lee put together a very nice 2004 and Kenny sold him off high for a good middle reliever and a player coming off a bargain-inducing wretched season. Sooner or later Brian Anderson will probably need a place to play, and Pod is the guy he'll be beating out, more than likely. Sweeney, if he pans out, would be expected to arrive at the end of the Dye contract.

I don't believe a Konerko+Garland for Vazquez trade works for the Diamondbacks. I think they'd probably want Rowand+Garland. Would I do that deal? Maybe... Rowand's jump in productivity leaves me a little unconfident about him being able to repeat, and while I'm nowhere near as down on Garland as 3/4 of this list, Vazquez has Cy Young class dominating stuff. There would be three questions I would have to ask myself before I'd do that. First, can Everett and Escobar and whomever else hold down left until Anderson is ready? Second, will Vazquez not implode as he did in New York? Third, am I sure Podsednik will bounce back? Unless the answers are yes, yes, and yes, one can't do that deal either.

surfdudes
01-01-2005, 12:43 PM
So far, how many of the players KW has traded for veterans have panned out for the receiving teams? Kip and Josh aren't really doing so well, Olivo still can't hit a righthanded pitcher, Webster and Ring were so highly thought of they were exposed in the Rule V draft, Hummel failed miserably in Cincinnati, Rauch didn't exactly seize the day... Miles was OK in Denver but nowhere near as good as Uribe was... the White Sox may have "depleted the farm system" at AAA level, but appears they did it by selling off what can only be described as a sick herd. If KW sold off his swaybacks and scarbacks for mostly boring but productive horses -- or nothing, in some cases -- as he has appeared to do, it's hard to criticize him.

YeeHaaw Padner!

One definition of insanity is "taking the same actions and expecting different results....." The core players that have left the Sox, and the platooners that were supposed to come through when needed, and the touted Prospects that were supposed to shine, failed us and delivered nada......

I don't think that KW can be critisized for trying to change the makeup of this team, because as it stood we were headed for another 2nd 3rd place finish. Now that this team is more KW's and Ozzies vision, it will be interesting to see how they are judged when the dust settles. Some high risk/high reward moves that have been made. Pods, Contreras, Hernandez..... They have good years, and he'll be the boy genius; they don't do well, and WSI posters will be stocking up on tar and feathers.......

Fredsox
01-01-2005, 12:44 PM
ever hear the saying 'you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear'? this team had precious little resources at the end of this past year. we weren't ABOUT to turn this team into a world class contender. i am amazed kw has been able to make the team competetive at all for this coming season. you can't keep ripping the best players off your team and trading up. it don't work that way. konerko is the last 'hero' this team has! we have reached the point of diminishing returns (unless you want to totally deplete the farm system which would be stupid). you can't keep tweaking the pitching staff by giving away you best everyday players.

the pitching staff is fine! better than it's been in a long time! this team is ready as it stands!

let's play ball! The operative part of the statement is to improve the team. I agree that you do not make trades for the sake of trades. I'll also agree that KW has done good work, but if the goal is the WS let's not think we're ready for that as we sit right now. I think we can win the division, but is that all we want?

johnny_mostil
01-01-2005, 01:27 PM
The operative part of the statement is to improve the team. I agree that you do not make trades for the sake of trades. I'll also agree that KW has done good work, but if the goal is the WS let's not think we're ready for that as we sit right now. I think we can win the division, but is that all we want?
No, but to build a league championship favorite in the AL would require spending money in the Red Sox/Yankee payroll range. The NL has more competitive balance because it lacks any team willing to throw that much money around. A realistic goal for a Chicago team in the AL is to find a way to sneak into the playoffs and hope to bushwhack the favorites.

What were the core reasons the 2004 team failed? Three reasons, I think, in descending order: the starting pitching was a borderline disaster, the key injuries to Frank and Maggs hobbled the offense somewhat, and the bullpen lacked the depth it should have had. During the season and during this offseason, Williams took a fairly bold set of steps to try to address the starting pitching and bullpen. There is no realistic way to address the injury bug. The result is a fairly dramatic change in roster composition. True, he didn't bring in the AL All Star team, but that isn't remotely realistic for a team with a long tradition, ahem, of sub-par fan support.