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View Full Version : New Phil Rogers article on ESPN.com


soxfan43
12-30-2004, 12:07 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=rogers_phil&id=1955146

Phil Rogers wrote this article talking about the sox pitching staff as actually being pretty good for once. He also mentioned the sox maybe still picking up another arm for insurance or the pen before spring training, any ideas?

Jabroni
12-30-2004, 12:09 PM
I read this article was in the Sunday Tribune last week.At the winter meetings, manager Ozzie Guillen said he was hoping that Garland would "go from third starter, fourth starter to fifth starter.''

Someone asked if Garland might thrive with less pressure on him.

Guillen practically laughed.

"No,'' he blurted out. "I just want better pitchers.''WOW. :o:

And Phil Rogers still thinks we're getting Vazquez...
With a chance to land Javier Vazquez for brokering a Randy Johnson trade, or more likely to add another arm or two off the bargain table between now and spring training, it's possible the Sox staff is a work in progress.:?:

fquaye149
12-30-2004, 12:14 PM
ozzie is a character:redneck

HomeFish
12-30-2004, 12:15 PM
ozzie is a character:redneck

Anyone who realizes that Garland is trash is fine in my book.

voodoochile
12-30-2004, 12:17 PM
ozzie is a character:redneck
Well, Garland is certainly more tradeable now than he was before the acquisition of El Duque. I do think this is at least a call to arms for Garland - put up or shut up time, Jonny boy. Don't believe your hype.

Troupis
12-30-2004, 12:17 PM
It's amazing how Phil Rogers manages to quote so many great statistics for the Sox yet still teeters between saying they'll be good and insulting them repeatedly with back-handed slaps.

Tekijawa
12-30-2004, 12:18 PM
Anyone who realizes that Garland is trash is fine in my book.
In the end he'll have a better ERA than Pavano... mark my words!

soxfan43
12-30-2004, 12:20 PM
It's amazing how Phil Rogers manages to quote so many great statistics for the Sox yet still teeters between saying they'll be good and insulting them repeatedly with back-handed slaps.
That's Phil Rogers for ya. Don't forget ESPN isn't the only place giving him a paycheck

SOXSINCE'70
12-30-2004, 12:21 PM
Well, Garland is certainly more tradeable now than he was before the acquisition of El Duque. I do think this is at least a call to arms for Garland - put up or shut up time, Jonny boy. Don't believe your hype.Belive it or not,it took 6 years for Sandy Koufax to
become a dominant pitcher.Garland is in year #6.
You're right;It is "put up or shut up" time for Jon Garland.

CecilCooper
12-30-2004, 12:23 PM
Phil Rogers is right on. "enough to provide Sox fans with their annual shot of hope." Couldn't have characterized it better myself.

FedEx227
12-30-2004, 12:23 PM
have fun with that...I would hope it becomes true, but that Ozzie quote cracks me up.

Tekijawa
12-30-2004, 12:31 PM
Belive it or not,it took 6 years for Sandy Koufax to
become a dominant pitcher.Garland is in year #6.
You're right;It is "put up or shut up" time for Jon Garland.
Even though I think this is Garlands break out year... I would like this post deleted as those two names shouldn't appear to gether in the same paragraph...

fquaye149
12-30-2004, 12:52 PM
^^^kevin brown is a much better comparison and not quite so unrealistic.

though still very unrealistic.

petekat
12-30-2004, 12:57 PM
anyone feel it's still possible to land Javi without parting with Paulie? Will the D-backs, desperate to get the deal done, be interested in Garland + minor prospects?



^^^kevin brown is a much better comparison and not quite so unrealistic.

though still very unrealistic.

mjharrison72
12-30-2004, 12:58 PM
Even though I think this is Garlands break out year... I would like this post deleted as those two names shouldn't appear to gether in the same paragraph...I agree Koufax and Garland don't even belong in the same sentence, but Garland has to focus on avoiding the big inning. He had five games last year where he allowed 6 ER or more, including June 9, when he got shelled for 10 ER over 4.0. But if you take just that game out, he had a 4.44 ERA for the season, which is pretty respectable. What concerns me more is the opponents BAA around .260 or higher. Hopefully the defense will help lower that this season. I have high hopes for Garland, and much greater faith in him as our #5 starter than as our #3 man.

Lip Man 1
12-30-2004, 01:42 PM
I'd feel a lot better about the staff if they weren't considering Cotts and Adkins again for middle relief. That area needs to be upgraded before in my opinion, they have a 'complete' staff.

Lip

santo=dorf
12-30-2004, 02:02 PM
I'd feel a lot better about the staff if they weren't considering Cotts and Adkins again for middle relief. That area needs to be upgraded before in my opinion, they have a 'complete' staff.

Lip
Hermanson? Vizcaino?

Lip, take a look at Adkins' game log: http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cws/stats/cws_individual_player_gamebygamelog.jsp?playerID=4 24668&statType=2

On August 4, he had an ERA of 3.08 after pitching 3.2 IP of scoreless baseball. His ERA didn't go past 4 until he got tattooed by the Twins on 9-16-04.
:rolleyes:

CWSGuy406
12-30-2004, 02:06 PM
I'd feel a lot better about the staff if they weren't considering Cotts and Adkins again for middle relief. That area needs to be upgraded before in my opinion, they have a 'complete' staff.

LipCotts, when Mike Jackson wasn't pitching behind him, really wasn't that bad. As for Adkins, he'll be fighting to make the team, depending on whether the Sox keep 11 or 12 pitchers.*

*Assuming the staff is Buehrle, Garcia, Hernandez, Contreras, Garland, Takatsu, Hermanson, Vizcaino, Marte, Politte, Cotts, Diaz/Adkins/Grilli/Walker/Munoz/Baj/NR invitee.

EDIT: Lip -- find me a team that has as deep a bullpen as the Sox in all of baseball. We don't have one star reliever (outside of Marte), but we have a lot of solid arms in that bullpen. If Cotts is the worst pitcher on our staff, then we're in good shape...

Foulke29
12-30-2004, 02:12 PM
Belive it or not,it took 6 years for Sandy Koufax to
become a dominant pitcher.Garland is in year #6.
You're right;It is "put up or shut up" time for Jon Garland.
Yeah, but Koufax had the stuff for those six years. He had a fastball that was in the high 90s but his control was suspect.

Garland, on the other hand, has the one big inning problem. He gets himself in trouble and has trouble getting out of it. Sure! Sometimes he's lucky and gets that sinker to GIDP, but he's not been nearly as successfull at doing that as he did in 2003.

Comparing Koufax to Garland is like comparing Bochard to McGwire - both are just Sox hype.

Don't get me wrong - for a number 5 starter, I'll love having Garland on the Sox, but don't believe the potential front of the rotation hype just yet.

Foulke29
12-30-2004, 02:14 PM
On August 4, he had an ERA of 3.08 after pitching 3.2 IP of scoreless baseball. His ERA didn't go past 4 until he got tattooed by the Twins on 9-16-04.
:rolleyes:
But what was his WHIP - the true measure of a good pitcher!

Mohoney
12-30-2004, 02:16 PM
As for Adkins, he'll be fighting to make the team, depending on whether the Sox keep 11 or 12 pitchers.
Exactly. Adkins might not even make the team, and if he does, he definitely will be relegated to mop-up duty.

I really like our bullpen additions. I really like the El Duque signing. These moves show that we are recognizing that pitching was our real problem last season, and I think we will definitely finish higher than 13th in AL ERA.

CWSGuy406
12-30-2004, 02:22 PM
But what was his WHIP - the true measure of a good pitcher!
For a reliever, I personally like looking at Opponent OPS/AVG, WHIP, Allowed Inherited Runners to Score, then ERA. Also, if the guy is a specialist, looking at their splits vs. lefties and righties is a good thing, too.

Lip Man 1
12-30-2004, 06:41 PM
Adkins gave up 13 home runs in either 50 or 60 innings of work (sorry I don't remember the exact number of innings...) That's incredible.

Cotts walked a lot of guys.

Neither is desirable in pitchers trying to keep you ahead or in games, in the middle innings.

CWS guy: Try the Yankees. They don't have any 'can't miss kids' in their mix in the pen.

Lip

FedEx227
12-30-2004, 08:56 PM
Adkins picked it up towards the end of the year, I remember him having a string of 10-15 good relief apperances.

santo=dorf
12-30-2004, 09:03 PM
Adkins gave up 13 home runs in either 50 or 60 innings of work (sorry I don't remember the exact number of innings...) That's incredible.

Cotts walked a lot of guys.

Neither is desirable in pitchers trying to keep you ahead or in games, in the middle innings.

CWS guy: Try the Yankees. They don't have any 'can't miss kids' in their mix in the pen.

Lipand two of them were menaingless solo shots in the bottom of the ninth during a blow-out victory against the Rangers at their bandbox home stadium.

Lip, last year's Yankee bullpen had Brad Halsey (being traded,) Bret Prinz, Alex Graman, Sam Marsonek, Scott Proctor, Jorge De Paula, Juan Padilla, and Tanyon Sturtze (a former "can't-miss kid.")

To think the only other team in the MLB that has a better bullpen than us is the Yankees! We're doomed!!!:rolleyes:

Shingotime!!
12-30-2004, 09:41 PM
I remember Adkins striking out Manny in 3 pitches, and Manny knew it. To bad when the bosox came to the cell Adkins allowed solos shots to Manny and Ortiz after C. Lee got the lead back for us.

gosox41
12-31-2004, 07:36 AM
Lip, last year's Yankee bullpen had Brad Halsey (being traded,) Bret Prinz, Alex Graman, Sam Marsonek, Scott Proctor, Jorge De Paula, Juan Padilla, and Tanyon Sturtze (a former "can't-miss kid.")

To think the only other team in the MLB that has a better bullpen than us is the Yankees! We're doomed!!!:rolleyes:

Funny.:supernana:

Win1ForMe
12-31-2004, 12:10 PM
CWS guy: Try the Yankees. They don't have any 'can't miss kids' in their mix in the pen.I would like your posts a lot more if you at least knew what you were talking about. The Yankees had Tanyon Sturtze as their middle-reliever last year. That's in addition to using "can't miss kids" like Scott Proctor, Brett Prinz, and Brad Halsey.

I see you're grasping at straws these days... maybe you're worried of becoming outdated?

johnny_mostil
12-31-2004, 12:29 PM
Belive it or not,it took 6 years for Sandy Koufax to
become a dominant pitcher.Garland is in year #6.
You're right;It is "put up or shut up" time for Jon Garland.
Yeah, well, part of that with Koufax was moving from bandbox ballparks to a magnificent Friend of the Pitcher, wasn't it? Giving up 332 foot homers is hard on your confidence.

johnny_mostil
12-31-2004, 12:30 PM
CWS guy: Try the Yankees. They don't have any 'can't miss kids' in their mix in the pen.

Lip, if Jon Adkins got the same cheap strike calls Mariano routinely gets, he'd be an unhittable closer too.

champagne030
12-31-2004, 04:38 PM
Lip, if Jon Adkins got the same cheap strike calls Mariano routinely gets, he'd be an unhittable closer too.:tealpolice:

johnny_mostil
12-31-2004, 07:19 PM
:tealpolice:
Now it's my turn. I'm not being sarcastic at all. I would love to see the QuesTec report when Rivera pitches because I've seen K-Zone tell us that he normally gets called strikes on pitches two ball diameters out of the zone. I could pitch in the majors (almost) if they gave me strikes on pitches at the ankles and 8 inches outside.