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SteveSax'sSocks
12-27-2004, 04:20 PM
I am a very pessimistic White Sox fan, like many others and I am very worried about this season. I was first in line to want to overhaul this Bash Bros. team, but I expected more in return. Podsednik was a nice signing, but can he get on base? This whole season could blow up very quickly.

I think the pitching staff is good enough to keep the team in games, but the hitting is a problem.

1. Podsednik
2. Rowand
3. Thomas
4. Konerko
5. Dye
6. Uribe
7. Crede
8. Harris
9. Davis

LOOK AT THE BOTTOM OF THE ORDER! There are certainly a lot of strikeouts and rally killers to be found in this line-up.

Rocky Soprano
12-27-2004, 04:38 PM
You make some good points, and heck you have all reason to be worried but:

last year's lineup, and the year before, and the year before that, etc.

Did exactly how much good?

I for one, like the moves, it was time for a change. If Crede gets his head out of his butt, then our lineup is actually NOT that bad.

By the way, WELCOME!

SteveSax'sSocks
12-27-2004, 04:46 PM
It was time for change. I guess time will tell. The biggest problem I have when talking about this team is IF's.

if Podsednik hits like he did 2 years ago
if Dye stays healthy
if El Duque doesn't have an AARP card
if Crede can live up to his hype
if Harris can learn to steal
if Rowand can repeat
if Thomas can come back to full strength
if Uribe can get back to early season form
if the league hasn't figured out Takatsu

...you get my point.

Thanks for the Welcome. WSI makes work a hell of a lot more interesting!

SteveSax'sSocks
12-27-2004, 04:54 PM
It was time for change. I guess time will tell how they do. The biggest problem I have when talking about this team is IF's.

if Podsednik hits like he did 2 years ago
if Dye stays healthy
if El Duque doesn't have an AARP card
if Crede can live up to his hype
if Harris can learn to steal
if Rowand can repeat
if Thomas can come back to full strength
if Uribe can get back to early season form
if the league hasn't figured out Takatsu

...you get my point.

johnny_mostil
12-27-2004, 04:59 PM
It was time for change. I guess time will tell how they do. The biggest problem I have when talking about this team is IF's.

if Podsednik hits like he did 2 years ago
if Dye stays healthy
if El Duque doesn't have an AARP card
if Crede can live up to his hype
if Harris can learn to steal
if Rowand can repeat
if Thomas can come back to full strength
if Uribe can get back to early season form
if the league hasn't figured out Takatsu

...you get my point.
All those IFs don't add up to a division winner, they add up to a runaway domination of the whole league. "IF" all those things happen they win 110 games, rampaging through the league like Godzilla on PCP. IF 1/3 of those things are true it's probably enough.

danimal81
12-27-2004, 05:00 PM
It was time for change. I guess time will tell how they do. The biggest problem I have when talking about this team is IF's.

if Podsednik hits like he did 2 years ago
if Dye stays healthy
if El Duque doesn't have an AARP card
if Crede can live up to his hype
if Harris can learn to steal
if Rowand can repeat
if Thomas can come back to full strength
if Uribe can get back to early season form
if the league hasn't figured out Takatsu

...you get my point.Isn't it pointless to think about this stuff???
Injuries happen every year and to different players (usually); the team had a whole bunch of q's last year and the year before...
I am happy to say (for better or worse) this is one of the more balanced teams taking the field in my lifetime...

SteveSax'sSocks
12-27-2004, 05:04 PM
All those IFs don't add up to a division winner, they add up to a runaway domination of the whole league. "IF" all those things happen they win 110 games, rampaging through the league like Godzilla on PCP. IF 1/3 of those things are true it's probably enough.
I don't agree. These are the things that need to improve for this team to be successful. It's the White Sox...let's not talk about League Domination. 1/3 is not enough.

Rocky Soprano
12-27-2004, 05:07 PM
Life and Sports are full of IF's.

If they werent then it wouldnt be fun or interesting. :D:

SteveSax'sSocks
12-27-2004, 05:10 PM
I suppose, but why does it seem like the White Sox have more IFs than any other team?

I guess that's just because I am a Sox fan.

(Although, I think nationally they are viewed as having a ton of question marks)

Tekijawa
12-27-2004, 05:13 PM
So would you have rather stayed with what we had and hoped to win

if Carlos hit like he did last year
if Grili can more than quadruple his win total
if Crede can live up to his hype
if Harris can learn to steal
if Rowand can repeat
if Thomas can come back to full strength
if Uribe can get back to early season form
if the league hasn't figured out Takatsu
if Borchard can replace a guy like Magglio
if Konerko can repeat last year
if Cotts, Adkins, and the yet to be named other replacements can hold the game for Shingo
if we can eliminate the double play ball
if gload is not a flash in the pan
if Everett is healthy
if the Alomars have anything left in them.....


The Sox are a better TEAM than they were a month ago...

SteveSax'sSocks
12-27-2004, 05:18 PM
I did want change. I just don't think Kenny made all the moves necessary to win the division. With Minnesota doing their thing, Cleveland getting much better, and Detroit hanging around, it doesn't look good.

I am not going to get swept up in optimism like many others. Change for the sake of change can be disasterous.

You cannot say that this is a better team. WE WILL SEE. It is one thing to trade power for speed and defense, but now where will the power come from. Crede? Dye? what a joke.

ode to veeck
12-27-2004, 05:29 PM
Shouldn't this be in the Clubhouse!?

HomeFish
12-27-2004, 05:30 PM
last year's lineup, and the year before, and the year before that, etc.

Did exactly how much good?


We took last year's lineup and made it worse. It mighta done badly before, but boy is it going to stink now.

Rocky Soprano
12-27-2004, 05:32 PM
We took last year's lineup and made it worse. It mighta done badly before, but boy is it going to stink now.
By adding players that can actually leadoff, bunt, and steal?

Tekijawa
12-27-2004, 05:33 PM
You cannot say that this is a better team. WE WILL SEE. It is one thing to trade power for speed and defense, but now where will the power come from. Crede? Dye? what a joke.Last I checked Konerko was still on the team... Frank will be back eventually...

I'm not say that this will be the year, but this team is a better rounded team than we've had in a while... It will be nice not to sit through three batters swinging for the fences with the bases loaded every time, it will be nice to see a bunt every once in awhile to keep the other team on their toes in the infield, it will be nice to watch every fifth game this year and have a better chance that My TV will have survived the first inning and a third, it will be nice to have a bull pen that I feel great about and don't have to wait for Koch, Jackson, or some guy that only has AAA stats come in to face Manny Ramirez, it will be nice to have a guy like Posednik get on base ahead of Konerko and not have it be an automatic double play and maybe by stealing second that Grounder to the SS is moves a man to third instead?!?!?! If you honestly think that we are worse off now and are worried just because "our power numbers will be down" then you're missing the beauty of baseball... We've proven that record breaking team HR's mean absolutely nothing....
Did the rest of the teams in the Central get better, maybe, but from an eternal pessimist, this is actually the first time since the mid-90's that I feel that the holes we have can be over come!

Rocky Soprano
12-27-2004, 05:33 PM
I did want change. I just don't think Kenny made all the moves necessary to win the division. With Minnesota doing their thing, Cleveland getting much better, and Detroit hanging around, it doesn't look good.

I am not going to get swept up in optimism like many others. Change for the sake of change can be disasterous.

You cannot say that this is a better team. WE WILL SEE. It is one thing to trade power for speed and defense, but now where will the power come from. Crede? Dye? what a joke.
I guess Konerko and Thomas dont count.

Heck even Rowand showed some decent power last year.

maurice
12-27-2004, 05:37 PM
now where will the power come from. Crede? Dye?
Player - 2004 HR Total
Konerko - 41
Rowand - 24
Uribe - 23
Dye - 23
Crede - 21

In addition, the combination of Thomas and Everett could easily post 30+ HR. That's plenty of power if the pitching staff holds up. The perennial question is whether more than half the lineup will get on base at an above-average rate.

SteveSax'sSocks
12-27-2004, 05:49 PM
[QUOTE=Tekijawa]Last I checked Konerko was still on the team... Frank will be back eventually...

I'm not say that this will be the year, but this team is a better rounded team than we've had in a while... If you honestly think that we are worse off now and are worried just because "our power numbers will be down" then you're missing the beauty of baseball... We've proven that record breaking team HR's mean absolutely nothing....
QUOTE]

If they are so well rounded...where's the batting average?

Dye .265
Harris .262
Crede.239
Davis .231
Podsednik .244

You need guys to get on base to knock them around!

fquaye149
12-27-2004, 06:04 PM
[QUOTE=Tekijawa]Last I checked Konerko was still on the team... Frank will be back eventually...

I'm not say that this will be the year, but this team is a better rounded team than we've had in a while...If you honestly think that we are worse off now and are worried just because "our power numbers will be down" then you're missing the beauty of baseball... We've proven that record breaking team HR's mean absolutely nothing....
QUOTE]

If they are so well rounded...where's the batting average?

Dye .265
Harris .262
Crede.239
Davis .231
Podsednik .244

You need guys to get on base to knock them around!
all right. you're right. we're going to suck next year. isn't this fun?

johnny_mostil
12-27-2004, 06:06 PM
I don't agree. These are the things that need to improve for this team to be successful. It's the White Sox...let's not talk about League Domination. 1/3 is not enough.
You listed a whole slew of things that, if they all happen, would give the White Sox a 250 run margin on the season. That would be domination. No team has everything going at once, look at the Red Sox last season with a starting pitcher with a 5.5 ERA. Winning the division simply doesn't depend on "everything going right", it depends on more going right than wrong.

johnny_mostil
12-27-2004, 06:07 PM
all right. you're right. we're going to suck next year. isn't this fun?
Post the batting averages in 2004 and you'll see you don't actually need nine guys hitting .300 to score 865 runs.

SteveSax'sSocks
12-27-2004, 06:08 PM
You listed a whole slew of things that, if they all happen, would give the White Sox a 250 run margin on the season. That would be domination. No team has everything going at once, look at the Red Sox last season with a starting pitcher with a 5.5 ERA. Winning the division simply doesn't depend on "everything going right", it depends on more going right than wrong.
I understand that...but I have trouble seeing it happening. Sorry, years of losing paints a shadow of doubt.

I wish I could be happier with the team.

johnny_mostil
12-27-2004, 06:15 PM
I understand that...but I have trouble seeing it happening. Sorry, years of losing paints a shadow of doubt.

I wish I could be happier with the team.
So, you don't trust Kenny Williams, do you? His Jedi mind tricks don't work on you, either?

I review the roster over and over and I remember the old saw about blind squirrels. The team's not perfect, but consider that the Sox not long ago locked up Freddy Garcia for about what the Reds are paying Eric Milton... the Yankees are paying Carl Pavano huge money for not outpitching our much-maligned Jon Garland over the last three years... some idiot in DC is paying Cristian Guzman huge money to stink up the nation's capital and paying Vinny Castilla as well... Jacque Jones is getting five million bucks... and the D-Backs are spending money they do not have, after burning through a mountain of borrowed cash, and very well may default on their Glaus and Ortiz contracts at some point... and consider the possibility that Kenny is the only sane man left in MLB.

SteveSax'sSocks
12-27-2004, 06:29 PM
So, you don't trust Kenny Williams, do you? His Jedi mind tricks don't work on you, either?

I review the roster over and over and I remember the old saw about blind squirrels. The team's not perfect, but consider that the Sox not long ago locked up Freddy Garcia for about what the Reds are paying Eric Milton... the Yankees are paying Carl Pavano huge money for not outpitching our much-maligned Jon Garland over the last three years... some idiot in DC is paying Cristian Guzman huge money to stink up the nation's capital and paying Vinny Castilla as well... Jacque Jones is getting five million bucks... and the D-Backs are spending money they do not have, after burning through a mountain of borrowed cash, and very well may default on their Glaus and Ortiz contracts at some point... and consider the possibility that Kenny is the only sane man left in MLB.
I hope so. I really have been behind Kenny for many of his moves. I guess I just hoped for more this offseason- not wasting money as you suggest, but smart spending. Maybe he did.

I can't wait for April!

broker3d
12-27-2004, 07:19 PM
If's? You could point to every team and find a million ifs. This is ridiculous.

DrCrawdad
12-27-2004, 07:36 PM
It was time for change. I guess time will tell how they do. The biggest problem I have when talking about this team is IF's.

if Podsednik hits like he did 2 years ago
if Dye stays healthy
if El Duque doesn't have an AARP card
if Crede can live up to his hype
if Harris can learn to steal
if Rowand can repeat
if Thomas can come back to full strength
if Uribe can get back to early season form
if the league hasn't figured out Takatsu

...you get my point.

Are you a White Sox fan? Cubbie fan?

:dtroll:

FarWestChicago
12-27-2004, 09:45 PM
Shouldn't this be in the Clubhouse!?You're right. This is great FOLIP fodder. http://www.flyingsock.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

johnny_mostil
12-27-2004, 10:05 PM
I suppose, but why does it seem like the White Sox have more IFs than any other team?

I guess that's just because I am a Sox fan.

(Although, I think nationally they are viewed as having a ton of question marks)
I don't know why it seems this way, because it's not true. The Yankees have signed Pavano, Jaret Wright, and Tony Womack this offseason. If the Sox had signed these three the sportswriters and analysts would have roasted Kenny. Absolutely roasted. The Yankees have treated Javier Vazquez like swayback livestock, but the White Sox take it in the caboose from Magglio Ordonez for not offering arbitration without seeing his records.

I should point out that I have seen Yankee fans blasting Cashman for letting El Duque get away because he was "their only consistent starter".

batmanZoSo
12-27-2004, 10:16 PM
I am a very pessimistic White Sox fan, like many others and I am very worried about this season. I was first in line to want to overhaul this Bash Bros. team, but I expected more in return. Podsednik was a nice signing, but can he get on base? This whole season could blow up very quickly.

I think the pitching staff is good enough to keep the team in games, but the hitting is a problem.

1. Podsednik
2. Rowand
3. Thomas
4. Konerko
5. Dye
6. Uribe
7. Crede
8. Harris
9. Davis

LOOK AT THE BOTTOM OF THE ORDER! There are certainly a lot of strikeouts and rally killers to be found in this line-up.
Don't forget you can take Thomas out of there until further notice.

But we might see that having 5 starters was what we needed all along.

PicktoCLick72
12-28-2004, 03:22 AM
Originally Posted by SteveSax'sSocks
I did want change. I just don't think Kenny made all the moves necessary to win the division. With Minnesota doing their thing, Cleveland getting much better, and Detroit hanging around, it doesn't look good If you are saying the moves we made are not going to be enough how is cleveland getting so much better by sgnin who maybe kevin millwood. THe twins are the only team we have to compete with as the tribe are just a poor man's version of the team we had the past couple years. THey have an above average offense, no 5th starter and a lack of a bullpen. As we have seen with the sox the past couple years that combination brings you one place...home during october.

gosox41
12-28-2004, 09:23 AM
It was time for change. I guess time will tell how they do. The biggest problem I have when talking about this team is IF's.

if Podsednik hits like he did 2 years ago
if Dye stays healthy
if El Duque doesn't have an AARP card
if Crede can live up to his hype
if Harris can learn to steal
if Rowand can repeat
if Thomas can come back to full strength
if Uribe can get back to early season form
if the league hasn't figured out Takatsu

...you get my point.
Doesn't every team have 'if's'?

Name one and I'll go through the list


Bob

anewman35
12-28-2004, 09:25 AM
Doesn't every team have 'if's'?


Not the Twins and Indians and Tigers and Royals! There's no way we're not going to finish last!

SteveSax'sSocks
12-28-2004, 11:28 AM
I guess I have been defeated.

The "ifs" just seem magnified because I want this team to win so much.

I guess I need to just "Sit back and Strap it down" and wait to see what unfolds in 2005.

P.S. I know all teams have "ifs", but I was hoping to start some interesting discussions about the White Sox "ifs"....oh well.

cornball
12-28-2004, 11:42 AM
I guess I have been defeated.

The "ifs" just seem magnified because I want this team to win so much.

I guess I need to just "Sit back and Strap it down" and wait to see what unfolds in 2005.

P.S. I know all teams have "ifs", but I was hoping to start some interesting discussions about the White Sox "ifs"....oh well.
I agree with you Sax, while I am happy with some of the moves, the team is missing something. I commend KW for doing a great job for the budget he has been handed, but a big name is needed.

While many of the moves may have improved the team is it enough to even win the central. Without beating a dead horse, the management needs to reach down deep and go for it one time. None of the moves made will get the majority of fans to believe (at this point), so it will be another year of waiting until the trading deadline to make moves if we are competitive.

DrCrawdad
12-28-2004, 11:51 AM
I guess I have been defeated.

The "ifs" just seem magnified because I want this team to win so much.

I guess I need to just "Sit back and Strap it down" and wait to see what unfolds in 2005.

P.S. I know all teams have "ifs", but I was hoping to start some interesting discussions about the White Sox "ifs"....oh well.

In my experience many Sox fans are skeptical, and that's fine. Many on this board are skeptical and cynical, and that's fine too. But don't be suprised when people, like me, respond harshly to you when in your first posts on this board you post negative "ifs" and then when you make silly remarks about The Cells neighborhood while at the same time bragging about Wrigleyville.

No one says you need to have rose colored glasses, as most Cubbie fans wear, but when you rip the Sox and the Sox community don't be shocked if you get ripped in return. When you're here for a bit and people get to know you then they'll take those remarks in stride.

SteveSax'sSocks
12-28-2004, 11:59 AM
In my experience many Sox fans are skeptical, and that's fine. Many on this board are skeptical and cynical, and that's fine too. But don't be suprised when people, like me, respond harshly to you when in your first posts on this board you post negative "ifs" and then when you make silly remarks about The Cells neighborhood while at the same time bragging about Wrigleyville.

No one says you need to have rose colored glasses, as most Cubbie fans wear, but when you rip the Sox and the Sox community don't be shocked if you get ripped in return. When you're here for a bit and people get to know you then they'll take those remarks in stride.
I understand, but it is reality. I am not bragging about Wrigleyville, I actually hate the place. Unfortunately, thousands of others disagree.

and...you have to be skeptical to be a Sox fan...it's in the handbook.