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View Full Version : El Duque penciled in at No. 3 by Sox...


Jabroni
12-27-2004, 01:14 AM
This may be old news but I didn't see the link/quote anywhere...

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-041222soxhernandez,1,7634759.story?coll=cs-whitesox-headlines
Williams penciled Hernandez into the third spot in the Sox rotation—behind Freddy Garcia and Mark Buehrle and in front of fellow Cuban expatriate Jose Contreras and Jon Garland.

Having Hernandez that high in the rotation would mean he projects to get more than 30 starts, something he has done just once, in 1999. He hasn't made more than 22 starts in a season since making 29 in 2000.If Hernandez can handle the workload in the middle of the rotation, the Sox can take pressure off Contreras and Garland, who have failed to live up to expectations but still eat up innings.

Which could be vital lower in the rotation, with Hernandez averaging a little more than six innings per start in his career.2005 White Sox rotation:

1.) Mark Buehrle
2.) Freddy Garcia
3.) Orlando "El Duque" Hernandez
4.) Jose Contreras
5.) Jon Garland

Nard
12-27-2004, 01:16 AM
Good. I don't know about putting him ahead of Contreras, but as long as this means Garland is the #5 and the #5 only, KW could make El Duque the ace for all I care.

jabrch
12-27-2004, 01:45 AM
Does it really matter who is in what spot? It's not like the #1 always faces #1s...

HomeFish
12-27-2004, 01:48 AM
Well, we'll have a good rotation for the first half before we lose el duque to injury.

Jabroni
12-27-2004, 01:49 AM
Does it really matter who is in what spot? It's not like the #1 always faces #1s...Yes, because whomever is penciled in as the #5 will pitch the least amount of innings. The #5 spot is often skipped with off-days.

Jabroni
12-27-2004, 01:50 AM
Well, we'll have a good rotation for the first half before we lose el duque to injury.http://img142.exs.cx/img142/536/pessimism0vp.jpg

JRIG
12-27-2004, 06:14 AM
Yes, because whomever is penciled in as the #5 will pitch the least amount of innings. The #5 spot is often skipped with off-days.
The "#5 spot" will simply go to whomever is the least effective. You can bet if Hernandez gives up 20 runs in his first 3 starts, suddenly he'll be the "#5 starter" and will find himself skipped in the rotation.

jortafan
12-27-2004, 08:17 AM
I'm actually a fan of "El Duque," and am glad our team has acquired him. But it is ridiculous to think of him as being more than the number 5 starter in the rotation. Putting him in a role where his start can be skipped periodically is exactly how he gets stretched out into pitching a full season (it's not like he's really 35, regardless of what he tells Major League Baseball). But if he pitches to his peak ability, we will get to see some really incredible stuff this coming season.

34 Inch Stick
12-27-2004, 10:55 AM
The number of starts is not as important as the number of innings/pitches thrown. Ozzie must strictly limit the guy to 6 innings and under 100 pitches, no matter the circumstances. He must realize that he has a better bullpen this year and it should be used liberally.

By the way, the Sox need Garland to be #4 and I think he will come out of Spring Training with that spot.

Brian26
12-27-2004, 11:07 AM
By the way, the Sox need Garland to be #4 and I think he will come out of Spring Training with that spot.
Yeah, we may all be surprised, happily, if Garland can step up this year and be a #4 or even a #3. Personally, I'd like to see this rotation:

1- Buehrle
2- Garcia
3- Contreras
4- Garland
5- El Duque

You have to admit, that looks solid.

PaleHoseGeorge
12-27-2004, 11:10 AM
.....

By the way, the Sox need Garland to be #4 and I think he will come out of Spring Training with that spot.
If the Sox have post-season aspirations, Garland needs to be at least the fourth-best pitcher, maybe even the third-best. Fortunately we've learned not to rely on that rockhead because no amount of talent can make up for the complete waste of space between his ears.

I say hit that rockhead right across the skull with a giant sledgehammer. Something like this next March...

:ozzie
"We've got a great set of pitchers in our everyday rotation, so I don't see any need to use Jon beyond the #5 spot. He'll stay there until further notice."

rockhead ------> :jon

And if rockhead has any cute comments to make after Ozzie demotes him, Ozzie can say something cute right back. Something like...

:ozzie
"That's just the way I manage."

:cool:

CecilCooper
12-27-2004, 11:10 AM
I'm worried about Duque breaking down if he pitches too much in the early going. I think #5 is the best conservative strategy.

But then, I guess you don't pay $4mil for a #5 starter (unless you're the yankees) and KW says (FWIW) that Duque took the "best physical he's ever seen." Whatever that means. (I wonder, what did David Wells and Todd Ritchie's physicals look like?)

johnny_mostil
12-27-2004, 11:26 AM
If the Sox have post-season aspirations, Garland needs to be at least the fourth-best pitcher, maybe even the third-best. Fortunately we've learned not to rely on that rockhead because no amount of talent can make up for the complete waste of space between his ears.

C'mon, folks. Garland doesn't have overpowering stuff in reality, but he manages to post a league-average ERA and gets the team to the 7th 90% of the time. He is never going to be Jim Palmer, he doesn't get the Ks. Stop expecting him to be what he's not.

dcb33
12-27-2004, 12:49 PM
I'm worried about Duque breaking down if he pitches too much in the early going. I think #5 is the best conservative strategy.

But then, I guess you don't pay $4mil for a #5 starter (unless you're the yankees) and KW says (FWIW) that Duque took the "best physical he's ever seen." Whatever that means. (I wonder, what did David Wells and Todd Ritchie's physicals look like?)I would have to agree. The Sox only have 3 days off in April and 2 in May this year, but they are spaced to where the 5th starter would only start 7 times and the 1-4 guys start 12 times for those two months, assuming 4 days rest per starter. Give El Duque the rest early on and save him for the end.
It doesn't make any sense to make a pitcher who's health is an issue your 3rd starter when we know that our other 4 guys are healthy enough to last the entire season.
Our rotation will probably change before Opening Day anyway.

PaleHoseGeorge
12-27-2004, 01:08 PM
C'mon, folks. Garland doesn't have overpowering stuff in reality, but he manages to post a league-average ERA and gets the team to the 7th 90% of the time. He is never going to be Jim Palmer, he doesn't get the Ks. Stop expecting him to be what he's not.
I expect absolutely nothing from rockhead. I'll be pleasantly surprised by whatever he delivers, April-September.

Meanwhile we've got 3 full months to start busting up the granite between his ears. It cost us absolutely nothing to do so.
:cool:

It's starts by making it clear to rockhead he is the biggest A-1 piece of **** in the rotation, and repeatedly telling him how he ought to be grateful he isn't in the bullpen. Between now and April it costs us nothing to make him feel like he is one mistake from pitching mop-up duty. Let Jon prove to us we're wrong-- He's never proven anything in his entire career!

Garland has the talent but not the brains to pitch effectively. Time to get working on his rockhead.

Where's my sledgehammer?
:cool:

rockhead -------> :jon

Mohoney
12-27-2004, 05:26 PM
If the Sox have post-season aspirations, Garland needs to be at least the fourth-best pitcher, maybe even the third-best. Fortunately we've learned not to rely on that rockhead because no amount of talent can make up for the complete waste of space between his ears.

I say hit that rockhead right across the skull with a giant sledgehammer. Something like this next March...

:ozzie
"We've got a great set of pitchers in our everyday rotation, so I don't see any need to use Jon beyond the #5 spot. He'll stay there until further notice."

rockhead ------> :jon

And if rockhead has any cute comments to make after Ozzie demotes him, Ozzie can say something cute right back. Something like...

:ozzie
"That's just the way I manage."

:cool:
This is EXACTLY the reason why I want this guy traded.

If a Garland, Crede, and prospects package can get me a starter that, at the very least, doesn't berate the fanbase and point fingers at the defense after serving up 3 gopher balls to washed-up Bobby Higginson, then pull the trigger and quit praying that this lunkhead gives you greatness.

If nothing else, it's time to take our chances on a new lunkhead.

santo=dorf
12-27-2004, 05:27 PM
Well, we'll have a good rotation for the first half before we lose el duque to injury.
Please go back to being a Cubs fan.

:chickenlittle

NSSoxFan2
12-27-2004, 05:48 PM
I'm not really into the "spots" in a rotation. I believe that the season dictates who becomes your #3,4, or 5. With the Sox it is safe to assume that MB and Freddy are one and two.

batmanZoSo
12-27-2004, 05:55 PM
Does it really matter who is in what spot? It's not like the #1 always faces #1s...
It doesn't matter. It's really just respect if anything. If it's clear cut, like Buehrle and Garcia, of course they're 1 and 2, and which is the ace should be based on setting up the most diverse order. You try to go righty-lefty-righty or hard stuff-junk-hard stuff.

Jabroni
12-27-2004, 06:06 PM
It doesn't matter. It's really just respect if anything. If it's clear cut, like Buehrle and Garcia, of course they're 1 and 2, and which is the ace should be based on setting up the most diverse order. You try to go righty-lefty-righty or hard stuff-junk-hard stuff.Yep. This 1 - 4 would make the most sense then...

1.) Buehrle - lefty
2.) Garcia - righty
3.) El Duque - good junk
4.) Contreras - nasty stuff
5.) Garland - good junk but no head :tongue:

PaleHoseGeorge
12-27-2004, 06:20 PM
5.) Garland - good junk but no head :tongue:
:jon
"Hey now! That's just the way I pitch!"

Jabroni
12-27-2004, 06:26 PM
http://www.level-6.com/images/bar-graf/tinkle.gif:jon "Hey now! That's just the way I pitch!"

chaz171
12-28-2004, 03:42 PM
4A pitcher?


:jon


10 cent head?

:jon

Nuke?

:jon


I think Ozzie knows that Jon is best Suited for the 5th starter spot. I think what will improve this team this season is if they realize he is best suited as a 5th starter...on another team......

MHOUSE
12-28-2004, 04:35 PM
If Garland pitches over 200 innings, keeps a better than league average ERA, and wins more than he loses then he's a pretty good 4th starter IMO. I know he could be this and could be that, but if he only wants to be decent and can take being treated as a decent pitcher and not "Jim Palmer" then let it go.