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WhiteSoxFan84
12-25-2004, 02:59 AM
I found this at BostonDirtDogs.com earlier this week. It's fairly old news but I don't think I saw anyone make mention of the White Sox making an offer to Japanese second basemen (I've also read he's a shortstop) Tadahito Iguchi.

A BDD source says that Japanese news reports indicate that Richard Moss, agent for Tadahito Iguchi (http://www.japanesebaseball.com/players/player.jsp?PlayerID=970), said he is confident that the former Fukuoka Daiei Hawks speedy second baseman will end up signing with the Red Sox. So far Iguchi has received an offer from the Chicago White Sox for two years at $4M but Moss has dismissed that offer, referencing Kaz Matsui’s three year, $20.1M deal with the Mets. Iguchi is quoted as saying "I don't expect to know where I will be when (Randy) Johnson doesn't know. I hope to know by the time (spring training) camp starts." Yankees manager Joe Torre was asked about Iguchi as a back up to Tony Womack and said "I don't know about him."
I'll settle for Alex Cora. Joey needs to recruit his little brother.

jordan23ventura
12-25-2004, 03:18 AM
I found this at BostonDirtDogs.com earlier this week. It's fairly old news but I don't think I saw anyone make mention of the White Sox making an offer to Japanese second basemen (I've also read he's a shortstop) Tadahito Iguchi.


I'll settle for Alex Cora. Joey needs to recruit his little brother.
He's looking at the Met's contract to Kaz? Jeez.

The Mets should just die. They give out bad contracts left and right, yet never seem to learn from their mistakes. In the process of screwing themselves, they (like DC this year) ruin things for other teams by driving up prices for good players through spending lots of money on average or below average players.

If there were one franchise that I could toss into the fiery baseball furnace, it would without a doubt be them.

dpbyron
12-26-2004, 06:09 PM
Linky (http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=news&cat=6&id=323127)

Corlose 15
12-26-2004, 06:14 PM
Who is Tadahito Iguchi?

soltrain21
12-26-2004, 06:15 PM
Is he that third baseman?

Yuck...

lths06
12-26-2004, 06:16 PM
Is he that third baseman?

Yuck...
Well, he ISN'T Crede...

Corlose 15
12-26-2004, 06:17 PM
I thought the 3B was Nakamura. I could be wrong though.

Jabroni
12-26-2004, 06:18 PM
I thought the 3B was Nakamura. I could be wrong though.He's the 3B that wants to come to the MLB. Iguchi plays 2B and SS.

Tadahito Iguchi's stats:
http://www.japanesebaseball.com/players/player.jsp?PlayerID=970

By the way, it's my 1000th post! :supernana:

soltrain21
12-26-2004, 06:19 PM
I just looked up his name on google and it says he is a 2b.


Where is this guy coming from?





edit - Good average with good speed, but it looks like he strikes out a lot.

jabrch
12-26-2004, 06:19 PM
Japanese 2B for Fukuoka. 30 years old...here's his stats.

http://www.japanesebaseball.com/players/player.jsp?PlayerID=970

Has had two very good years in a row in Japan in 2003/2004.

I saw him play when I was out there last year. He might be good enough to play in the MLB. If the price was right, I'd take a shot at him as a UI. He could platoon with Willie at 2B, so Harris doesn't have to face lefties.

Jabroni
12-26-2004, 06:20 PM
Japanese 2B for Fukuoka. 30 years old...here's his stats.

http://www.japanesebaseball.com/players/player.jsp?PlayerID=970

Has had two very good years in a row in Japan in 2003/2004.

I saw him play when I was out there last year. He might be good enough to play in the MLB. If the price was right, I'd take a shot at him as a UI. He could platoon with Willie at 2B, so Harris doesn't have to face lefties.Beat ya to it! :wink:

Wow, this guy can hit. He has homerun power, can get on base, steal bases, and he plays the positions we need -- 2B and SS. He's like Kaz Matsui but GOOD! :wink:

Brian26
12-26-2004, 06:32 PM
By the way, it's my 1000th post! :supernana:
Ugh.

Jabroni
12-26-2004, 06:33 PM
Ugh.LOL! :)

DrCrawdad
12-26-2004, 06:34 PM
I'm all for signing good Japanese players. I was excited about the possibilities when the Sox signed Shingo, and I that turned out to be a good signing by the Sox. If this guy is good, bring him in.

Jabroni
12-26-2004, 06:35 PM
Tadahito Iguchi
http://okamooo.fc2web.com/hadahitoiguchi.jpg

soltrain21
12-26-2004, 06:38 PM
I would like to think we could have a leg up for him since we have Shingo, but it looks like the Red Sox and Yankees are both offering him contracts.


Dah! They don't need him...I hate both of those teams.

Jabroni
12-26-2004, 06:42 PM
I would like to think we could have a leg up for him since we have Shingo, but it looks like the Red Sox and Yankees are both offering him contracts.


Dah! They don't need him...I hate both of those teams.The Yankees and Red Sox want him so badly because New York caught a stud with Hideki Matsui.

Brian26
12-26-2004, 06:46 PM
Tadahito Iguchi
http://okamooo.fc2web.com/hadahitoiguchi.jpg
Wow. I've never seen a Japanese baseball card before. That's very cool.

DiGiSyKo
12-26-2004, 06:53 PM
From BostonDirtDogs.com... "So far Iguchi has received an offer from the Chicago White Sox for two years at $4M but Moss has dismissed that offer, referencing Kaz Matsui’s three year, $20.1M deal with the Mets."

Jabroni
12-26-2004, 06:57 PM
Maybe Boston doesn't want Iguchi afterall...

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2004/12/23/miller_next_to_pitch_in/
During scouting meetings last week in San Diego, the Sox also worked out Japanese shortstop Tadahito Iguchi -- who is a free agent eligible to sign with a major league club -- their interest predicated on whether he could also play second base. But the Sox, who on Monday traded outfielder Dave Roberts to the Padres for infielder Ramon Vazquez and righthanded-hitting outfielder Jay Payton, plan to pass on Iguchi, according to industry sources familiar with his talks with the team. As it stands, Vazquez and third baseman Kevin Youkilis, who has been told to work out at first base as well, will come into camp as the team's primary infield reserves.

Jabroni
12-26-2004, 06:59 PM
From BostonDirtDogs.com... "So far Iguchi has received an offer from the Chicago White Sox for two years at $4M but Moss has dismissed that offer, referencing Kaz Matsui’s three year, $20.1M deal with the Mets."Here's the link...

http://bostondirtdogs.boston.com/Headline_Archives/2004/12/roberts_to_san.html
Second Chance for Iguchi?

A BDD source says that Japanese news reports indicate that Richard Moss, agent for Tadahito Iguchi, said he is confident that the former Fukuoka Daiei Hawks speedy second baseman will end up signing with the Red Sox. So far Iguchi has received an offer from the Chicago White Sox for two years at $4M but Moss has dismissed that offer, referencing Kaz Matsui’s three year, $20.1M deal with the Mets. Iguchi is quoted as saying "I don't expect to know where I will be when (Randy) Johnson doesn't know. I hope to know by the time (spring training) camp starts." Yankees manager Joe Torre was asked about Iguchi as a back up to Tony Womack and said "I don't know about him."

Jabroni
12-26-2004, 07:03 PM
Why would any team risk so much $ on an unproven forein player??? How much did Matsui get?Kaz Matsui got $20.1 million for 3 years from the Mets. And why, you ask? Because of his brother, Hideki Matsui.

I think Iguchi's agent must be blowing smoke to jack up Iguchi's price like Borass. If he doesn't realize Hideki Matsui is the real reason that Kaz Matsui got all that money, he must be drunk. :gulp: The Mets tried to top the Yankees by signing the other Matsui brother and it obviously didn't work.

soltrain21
12-26-2004, 07:08 PM
So our offer was just thrown out the window?

Doh

Jabroni
12-26-2004, 07:12 PM
I would love to have this guy. He seems like the A-Rod of Japan. He can hit for power, steal bases, and play SS. He would definately strengthen the bottom of our lineup in a platoon with Willie at 2B. Also, he could be buddies with Shingo. :tongue:

Wow, he's a little chubby dude...

176 cm, 84 kg = 5'8", 185 pounds, right?

SoxFan76
12-26-2004, 07:19 PM
Ugh.
My thoughts exactly. Jabroni, go take a walk, read a book, SOMETHING!!! You spend entirely too much time posting.

Jabroni
12-26-2004, 07:21 PM
My thoughts exactly. Jabroni, go take a walk, read a book, SOMETHING!!! You spend entirely too much time posting.How bout you worry about yourself? You can put me on your ignore list if you don't want to read my posts, ya know. I won't mind at all...

WhiteSoxAaron
12-26-2004, 07:24 PM
think we'll get him?

Jabroni
12-26-2004, 07:24 PM
think we'll get him?Not if he wants a 3-year deal for $20 million like Kaz Matsui.

SoxFan76
12-26-2004, 07:25 PM
How bout you worry about yourself? You can put me on your ignore list if you don't want to read my posts, ya know. I won't mind at all...
Sense of humor my man. Get one.

Jabroni
12-26-2004, 07:26 PM
Sense of humor my man. Get one.I have a sense of humor but your last post had none. Sorry dude...

WhiteSoxAaron
12-26-2004, 07:26 PM
i doubt he'll get the contract

WhiteSoxAaron
12-26-2004, 07:27 PM
i agree w/ jabroni that was lame worry about ur self dued

johnny_mostil
12-26-2004, 07:40 PM
Beat ya to it! :wink:

Wow, this guy can hit. He has homerun power, can get on base, steal bases, and he plays the positions we need -- 2B and SS. He's like Kaz Matsui but GOOD! :wink:
Whoa. First, take a :gulp: and relax.

I don't have any idea what level Japanese major league baseball is. But did you notice his walk rate bounces all over the place?

That said, he looks like he's not all that different than Kaz. I'm all for it; watch them do something screwy like they did with Shingo -- 2 years, $2.5M this year, $4.5M option next year...

He makes zero sense for the Red Sox at this point, with them having acquired Ramon Vazquez. He makes a lot more sense for the Yankees, but you'd figure if they were in the market, they would have just bought themselves somebody already...

Jabroni
12-26-2004, 07:44 PM
Whoa. First, take a :gulp: and relax.

I don't have any idea what level Japanese major league baseball is. But did you notice his walk rate bounces all over the place?

That said, he looks like he's not all that different than Kaz. I'm all for it; watch them do something screwy like they did with Shingo -- 2 years, $2.5M this year, $4.5M option next year...

He makes zero sense for the Red Sox at this point, with them having acquired Ramon Vazquez. He makes a lot more sense for the Yankees, but you'd figure if they were in the market, they would have just bought themselves somebody already...Yeah, he seems alot like Kaz Matsui. The problem with the Mets is that they insist on playing Kaz at SS. He would be better at 2B.

jabrch
12-26-2004, 07:48 PM
Beat ya to it! :wink:

Wow, this guy can hit. He has homerun power, can get on base, steal bases, and he plays the positions we need -- 2B and SS. He's like Kaz Matsui but GOOD! :wink:

He's not nearly the defensive player nor as fast as Kaz Matsui. He might fit in perfectly for us, and having Shingo here might help get him. But I wouldn't expect any more out of him than the Mets got from Matsui.

DickAllen72
12-26-2004, 08:07 PM
Iguchi plays 2B and SS.

Tadahito Iguchi's stats:
http://www.japanesebaseball.com/players/player.jsp?PlayerID=970



Now that Eckstein is off the market and Polanco seems out of the question, I'd love for the Sox to pick Iguchi up.

After watching Ichiro and Shingo play, and seeing Matsui going face first into the stands against us last year, I kind of like the way these Japanese players play. Maybe if we can sign Tadahito along with already having Shingo, we'll have an "in" and a leg up over our competition with future Japanese stars who want to come over.

Chisox003
12-26-2004, 08:13 PM
I really don't know what I think of this....On one hand, I say sure sign him because he looks like a good player, and we need another middle infielder BADLY...Plus, with Shingo and this guy, the fan base grows that much more with japanese fans....
On the other hand, I think it would be a risky move, especially if we have to contend and out bid the RedSox/Yankees (which is impossible anyway)....Hes only had 2 good years, and its not like hes young, hes 30 years old....I wouldnt mind the signing, but I wouldnt love it either........

dugwood31
12-26-2004, 08:21 PM
Maybe this is one of those times when there's no way for us fans to know what to think. He hit well over .300 the last few years, and stole lots of bases. It's so hard to compare...I must say I like having a veteran over Willie next year, even though long term I think Willie has a chance to be a good player.

EvilJester99
12-26-2004, 08:28 PM
Reinsdorf wants to meet Iguchi:
http://www.japanball.com/news.phtml?id=2878

Jabroni
12-26-2004, 08:33 PM
Reinsdorf wants to meet Iguchi:
http://www.japanball.com/news.phtml?id=2878OH NOOO!!! This is not good...


:reinsy
"So Iguchi, how's league minimum sound?"

http://www.joc.or.jp/past_games/atlanta/athlete/baseball/images/iguchi-t.jpg
"Sayonara!"

DickAllen72
12-26-2004, 08:37 PM
Reinsdorf wants to meet Iguchi:
http://www.japanball.com/news.phtml?id=2878

In the article you linked it mentions that he switched to 2B from SS a few years ago after shoulder surgery. I wonder if he can still play some SS (in a back-up role) or if his throwing arm is shot and he is limited to only playing 2B.

Jabroni
12-26-2004, 08:40 PM
In the article you linked it mentions that he switched to 2B from SS a few years ago after shoulder surgery. I wonder if he can still play some SS (in a back-up role) or if his throwing arm is shot and he is limited to only playing 2B.A former shortstop, Iguchi switched to second base after undergoing shoulder surgery in 2000.His arm is probably a bit weaker now and he is better suited for the shorter throw from 2B to 1B instead of SS to 1B. It must have healed though because his hitting actually got better in 2003 and 2004.

humansushi
12-26-2004, 08:45 PM
Just to clear this up, Kaz and Hideki Matsui are not brothers. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other. Here in Japan, Hideki Matsui played for the Giants ( Japan's Yankees) as a power hitter. Kaz was always known best for his Outstanding play at Shortstop. Problem for him may be the adjustment to natural grass, as Japan's infields are Art. turf or dirt. he hit for average as well, just had an off year or trouble adjusting in my opinion. Adjusting the Infield play is much different compared to the outfield.

Kaz Matsui got $20.1 million for 3 years from the Mets. And why, you ask? Because of his brother, Hideki Matsui.

I think Iguchi's agent must be blowing smoke to jack up Iguchi's price like Borass. If he doesn't realize Hideki Matsui is the real reason that Kaz Matsui got all that money, he must be drunk. :gulp: The Mets tried to top the Yankees by signing the other Matsui brother and it obviously didn't work.

johnny_mostil
12-26-2004, 08:46 PM
In the article you linked it mentions that he switched to 2B from SS a few years ago after shoulder surgery. I wonder if he can still play some SS (in a back-up role) or if his throwing arm is shot and he is limited to only playing 2B.
Isn't most Japanese ball played on turf? You can't play SS on turf without a cannon...

Jabroni
12-26-2004, 08:50 PM
Isn't most Japanese ball played on turf? You can't play SS on turf without a cannon...http://www.japanball.com/news.phtml?id=2878A former shortstop, Iguchi switched to second base after undergoing shoulder surgery in 2000.He was good at SS before his injury. He moved to 2B and was pretty much a gold glover there.

http://www.japanesebaseball.com/players/player.jsp?PlayerID=970

Fielding - Shortstop
1997 - 3 errors
1998 - 10 errors
1999 - 15 errors
2000 - 8 errors

Fielding - Second baseman
2001 - 5 errors
2002 - 6 errors
2003 - 10 errors

soltrain21
12-26-2004, 08:57 PM
http://www.japanball.com/news.phtml?id=2878He was good at SS before his injury. He moved to 2B and was pretty much a gold glover there.

I am glad you have followed his career throughout the ages, Jabroni.

Jabroni
12-26-2004, 08:58 PM
I am glad you have followed his career throughout the ages, Jabroni.I'm judging his defense based on his fielding percentage at SS and 2B. Don't be such a wise-ass. :wink:

santo=dorf
12-26-2004, 09:00 PM
I don't know. Last year he made 240,000,000. :o:
:reinsy
"I don't care what the currency is that is still too much for my ball club."

Jabroni
12-26-2004, 09:04 PM
I don't know. Last year he made 240,000,000. :o:
:reinsy
"I don't care what the currency is that is still too much for my ball club."http://www.japanesebaseball.com/players/player.jsp?PlayerID=970
* 2004: 24000-man
* [1-man = 10,000.]24,000 X 10,000 = 240,000,000

The Universal Currency Converter ®
http://www.xe.com/ucc/

240,000,000 Japanese Yen = $2,313,681.00 U.S. Dollars

So if Iguchi made $2,313,681 last year and JR is offering 2-years, $4 million, Uncle Jerry is already low-balling him right off the bat. :tongue:

Shingotime!!
12-26-2004, 09:06 PM
more like 2,313,873.88

Jabroni
12-26-2004, 09:11 PM
:?: more like 2,313,873.88The conversion is constantly changing, apparently.

Iguchi seems like he would make a great #2 hitter if he can make the switch from Japanese ball to the MLB.

WhiteSoxAaron
12-26-2004, 09:20 PM
any news on signing himyet
anyone think we will get him but dont get ur hopes up

Whitesox029
12-26-2004, 09:24 PM
Ugh. What's the matter? Don't like the dancing Banana?

WhiteSoxAaron
12-26-2004, 09:32 PM
well i hope the sox offer him a 2 year 6 million dollar deal or somewhere around there every artical i read on him we are the front runners.

Whitesox029
12-26-2004, 09:35 PM
Isn't most Japanese ball played on turf? You can't play SS on turf without a cannon... I would think it would be the opposite wouldn't it? You wouldn't get to as many balls, but you'd have more time to throw the ones hit right at you because they move faster.

Jabroni
12-26-2004, 09:35 PM
well i hope the sox offer him a 2 year 6 million dollar deal or somewhere around there every artical i read on him we are the front runners.JR seems to want a very low-risk, high-reward type deal. He also wants to attract the Japanese fans, similar to what Seattle has done. Maybe a 2-year, $6 million deal would get it done but who knows if JR would go that high?

:reinsy
"Come on Jabroni, you already know the answer to that!"

Jabroni
12-26-2004, 09:36 PM
I would think it would be the opposite wouldn't it? You wouldn't get to as many balls, but you'd have more time to throw the ones hit right at you because they move faster.Balls bounce through the infield alot faster on turf. Plus, players can run alot faster to 1B on turf than on grass.

soltrain21
12-26-2004, 09:37 PM
I think JR is smart enough to realize that an extra million dollars a year isn't too much for the attention we could get by having both Shingo and this guy.


If he isn't smart enough, how did he get this far in the first place?

WhiteSoxAaron
12-26-2004, 09:37 PM
u think we will get him jabroni

Jabroni
12-26-2004, 09:41 PM
u think we will get him jabroniMaybe, if his agent stops acting like Scott Borass. This Iguchi guy looks like he has alot more upside offensively than Alex Cora. The best 2B available is probably Placido Polanco but we would have to trade for him and he will make around $5 million in 2005. Iguchi looks like a good option -- a righty-hitting, good fielding 2nd baseman that can platoon with Willie and face lefty pitchers while Willie faces righties.

Whitesox029
12-26-2004, 09:50 PM
Balls bounce through the infield alot faster on turf. Plus, players can run alot faster to 1B on turf than on grass. Yeah the fact that the ball goes faster would mean you have more time to throw, which means you wouldn't have to throw as hard. As far as the runners, I would think the effect wouldn't be as great for them because a groundball has forward spin, but I'm no physics professor.
The whole thing's a non issue IMO because he could play 2B. Uribe is perfectly capable at SS.

WhiteSoxAaron
12-26-2004, 10:01 PM
well i hope they sign him that will top the tank for the team and we will have a great run at the WS.

humansushi
12-26-2004, 10:46 PM
Yeah the fact that the ball goes faster would mean you have more time to throw, which means you wouldn't have to throw as hard. As far as the runners, I would think the effect wouldn't be as great for them because a groundball has forward spin, but I'm no physics professor.
The whole thing's a non issue IMO because he could play 2B. Uribe is perfectly capable at SS.
This is not correct. playing on turf, you tend to play farther back because the balls are hit faster. Which means you need a strong arm to make the throw to first. Balls also tend to bouce alot higher when drove into the ground, giving the runner a head start before the throw can be made. But overall, without all the bs. The ball plays faster.

Jabroni
12-26-2004, 10:49 PM
This is not correct. playing on turf, you tend to play farther back because the balls are hit faster. Which means you need a strong arm to make the throw to first. Balls also tend to bouce alot higher when drove into the ground, giving the runner a head start before the throw can be made. But overall, without all the bs. The ball plays faster.His defense at 2B would most likely improve in the MLB, don't you think?

Here's a site devoted to Iguchi but it's in Japanese...

http://www.tadahito-iguchi.com/

humansushi
12-26-2004, 10:55 PM
[QUOTE=Jabroni]His defense at 2B would most likely improve in the MLB, don't you think?

You would think, but Kaz Matsui didn't fair all that well to the change. So could be anyones guess. With enough reps I'm sure any professional will eventually settle in, so I'm not really worried about his Defense, I don't see it taking a hit.

I really hope we get him as he's a local favorite of many here in Japan and a real class act, unlike Nakamura.

Jabroni
12-26-2004, 10:58 PM
[QUOTE=Jabroni]His defense at 2B would most likely improve in the MLB, don't you think?

You would think, but Kaz Matsui didn't fair all that well to the change. So could be anyones guess. With enough reps I'm sure any professional will eventually settle in, so I'm not really worried about his Defense, I don't see it taking a hit.

I really hope we get him as he's a local favorite of many here in Japan and a real class act, unlike Nakamura.Is Nakamura an egomaniac? I heard that he wants alot of money to play for an MLB team.

humansushi
12-26-2004, 11:01 PM
Is Nakamura an egomaniac? I heard that he wants alot of money to play for an MLB team.
He's a real turn-off listening to during interviews, imagine a Japanese Barry Bonds, but without the numbers!

Jabroni
12-26-2004, 11:05 PM
He's a real turn-off listening to during interviews, imagine a Japanese Barry Bonds, but without the numbers!So what's Iguchi like?

humansushi
12-26-2004, 11:13 PM
So what's Iguchi like?He's the guy you see walking around town talking to the fans and just being human. My wife and I used to live in Fukuoka ( now fairly close ) and she says she seen him talking with fans at a couple different restaurants. I've actually made her a Sox fan, and took her folks to a game back in '03 against Minnesota ( we won). Trying to build up the Sox fan base over here!!! lol

Jabroni
12-26-2004, 11:18 PM
He's the guy you see walking around town talking to the fans and just being human. My wife and I used to live in Fukuoka ( now fairly close ) and she says she seen him talking with fans at a couple different restaurants. I've actually made her a Sox fan, and took her folks to a game back in '03 against Minnesota ( we won). Trying to build up the Sox fan base over here!!! lolI wonder if he knows Shingo or has ever faced him in a game. Maybe that could help the Sox sign him. A guy that he could relate to and speak Japanese with. :wink:

mdep524
12-26-2004, 11:23 PM
Now that Eckstein is off the market and Polanco seems out of the question, I'd love for the Sox to pick Iguchi up.
I don't see why Polanco would reasonably be out of the question. The Phils don't want him, and the Sox have enough money, considering the El Duque signing was far less expensive than the Matt Clement signing would have been.

If KW is agressive, he could easily be in on Polanco.

Jabroni
12-26-2004, 11:26 PM
I don't see why Polanco would reasonably be out of the question. The Phils don't want him, and the Sox have enough money, considering the El Duque signing was far less expensive than the Matt Clement signing would have been.

If KW is agressive, he could easily be in on Polanco.It is less likely that we will land Polanco through a trade instead of simply signing Iguchi. We would probably have to give up prospect(s) for Polanco AND have to pay his 2005 salary that will be around $5 million or more. Iguchi would be a cheaper option and we wouldn't have to give any players up for him. I would definately take Polanco but I just don't see it happening.

mdep524
12-26-2004, 11:32 PM
It is less likely that we will land Polanco through a trade instead of simply signing Iguchi. We would probably have to give up prospect(s) for Polanco AND have to pay his 2005 salary that will be around $5 million or more. Iguchi would be a cheaper option and we wouldn't have to give any players up for him. I would definately take Polanco but I just don't see it happening.
Has anyone heard what Polanco's 2005 salary will be, exactly? He accepted the Phillies' arbitration offer, so the amount should be set.

Jabroni
12-26-2004, 11:38 PM
Has anyone heard what Polanco's 2005 salary will be, exactly? He accepted the Phillies' arbitration offer, so the amount should be set.Polanco's 2005 salary will be decided through the arbitration process...

http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/phi/news/phi_news.jsp?ymd=20041220&content_id=924340&vkey=news_phi&fext=.jsp
Polanco earned $3.95 million last season, and could win as much as $5 million through arbitration. If the sides don't work out an agreement, a hearing would take place in February. The Phillies can still trade Polanco, though a free agent who accepts salary arbitration can't be dealt before June 15 without the player's written consent.
http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/phi/news/phi_news.jsp?ymd=20041221&content_id=924735&vkey=news_phi&fext=.jsp
So what happens now with Placido Polanco? Is it worth it to spend $5 million on a utility player?
-- Evelyn R., Lancaster, Pa.


The Phillies offered Polanco -- a Type-A free agent -- arbitration to protect a first-round draft pick, expecting that he'd land a multiyear deal from another team. Whether that scared away teams or not, Polanco took the financial windfall of a one-year deal. While the Phillies weren't expecting him to accept, they acknowledge that he does make them a better team. They also say his potential salary wasn't factored into the original budget (think Kevin Millwood last year) -- so it's not as if they could have spent that money elsewhere.

Polanco will serve as a super utility guy, backing up at third, second and short. There's a possibility of him getting traded, but the Phils need his written consent to deal him before June 15. In the long run, Polanco may hurt his value heading into 2006, as he'll be entering the free agent market after a year in which he played less, and didn't hit a career-high 17 home runs.

OEO Magglio
12-27-2004, 12:39 AM
Maybe, if his agent stops acting like Scott Borass. This Iguchi guy looks like he has alot more upside offensively than Alex Cora. The best 2B available is probably Placido Polanco but we would have to trade for him and he will make around $5 million in 2005. Iguchi looks like a good option -- a righty-hitting, good fielding 2nd baseman that can platoon with Willie and face lefty pitchers while Willie faces righties.
If he's brought in for that kind of money he's definitely going to be the starter to atleast start the year. He seems like a high obp guy so he should be a perfect fit in the 2 slot, start him there and then if he fails you can platoon him with willie. By the way I think he'd be a fantastic signing, good speed, high obp, seems like a good guy to have right behind Scotty P.

Jabroni
12-27-2004, 12:42 AM
If he's brought in for that kind of money he's definitely going to be the starter to atleast start the year. He seems like a high obp guy so he should be a perfect fit in the 2 slot, start him there and then if he fails you can platoon him with willie. By the way I think he'd be a fantastic signing, good speed, high obp, seems like a good guy to have right behind Scotty P.Agreed. If we sign Iguchi, they could start out platooning him with Willie -- Iguchi versus lefties and Willie versus righties. If Iguchi puts up crazy numbers, let him start full-time and see if he can become the next Matsui.

jabrch
12-27-2004, 12:44 AM
If he's brought in for that kind of money he's definitely going to be the starter to atleast start the year. He seems like a high obp guy so he should be a perfect fit in the 2 slot, start him there and then if he fails you can platoon him with willie. By the way I think he'd be a fantastic signing, good speed, high obp, seems like a good guy to have right behind Scotty P.


5mm...that's a lot of $ for Polanco. You think we'd bite? In addition to having to give up a prospect or two? Doesn't look like a Sox type of signing to me.

WhiteSoxFan84
12-27-2004, 12:48 AM
I didn't read all the posts, so someone may have said this already, I apologize if that's the case.

If not, here's a link to my post regarding Tadahito; http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=43323

What Tadahito's agent, Richard Moss, did, was make the Sox 2 years, $4 million offer look like a joke. Unless they made him another offer, don't look for Tadahito to join us anytime soon. Moss wants a 3 year deal worth around $20 million.

Unless this guy has Ichiro-like potential, I'd rather have Alex Cora for $1 mill per.

Jabroni
12-27-2004, 01:10 AM
Unless this guy has Ichiro-like potential, I'd rather have Alex Cora for $1 mill per.Why do you think Alex Cora will only get $1 million per year? Cora made $1,300,000 last season and it was one of the best seasons of his career. I think he will get at least $2 million. Afterall, he's a lefty bat, he's a great defensive 2nd baseman, and he can play a little shortstop. The Cardinals still need a 2nd baseman since they lost Womack to the Yankees so I could see them wanting him.

MisterB
12-27-2004, 02:10 AM
I would love to have this guy. He seems like the A-Rod of Japan. He can hit for power, steal bases, and play SS. He would definately strengthen the bottom of our lineup in a platoon with Willie at 2B. Also, he could be buddies with Shingo. :tongue:

Wow, he's a little chubby dude...

176 cm, 84 kg = 5'8", 185 pounds, right?
Please be wary of Japanese League HR totals. Their park dimensions are, on average, smaller than ML parks and the pitching is borderline ML quality. For instance, Hideki Mastui was a 40-HR hitter in Japan, he hit 31 last season; Ichiro was a high-teens to 20's HR hitter, and he's averaged about 9 a year over here (granted he plays half his games in Safeco, but still).

Jabroni
12-27-2004, 02:13 AM
Please be wary of Japanese League HR totals. Their park dimensions are, on average, smaller than ML parks and the pitching is borderline ML quality. For instance, Hideki Mastui was a 40-HR hitter in Japan, he hit 31 last season; Ichiro was a high-teens to 20's HR hitter, and he's averaged about 9 a year over here (granted he plays half his games in Safeco, but still).Yes, I realize this.

34 Inch Stick
12-27-2004, 09:44 AM
One factor that I think the Sox need to take into account is being a player in emerging baseball talent markets. The Dodgers did this in Mexico and the Caribbean 25 years ago and it still fuels their team to this day. It would be nice it Japanese players thought of the White Sox as the team they would most like to join in the majors.

johnny_mostil
12-27-2004, 09:46 AM
I would think it would be the opposite wouldn't it? You wouldn't get to as many balls, but you'd have more time to throw the ones hit right at you because they move faster.
No. An infielder on artificial turf almost always plays deeper to cut off more balls because they have to. The baserunners are faster (better traction) -- the whole game is faster.

WhiteSoxFan84
12-27-2004, 01:50 PM
Why do you think Alex Cora will only get $1 million per year? Cora made $1,300,000 last season and it was one of the best seasons of his career. I think he will get at least $2 million. Afterall, he's a lefty bat, he's a great defensive 2nd baseman, and he can play a little shortstop. The Cardinals still need a 2nd baseman since they lost Womack to the Yankees so I could see them wanting him.
I stand corrected, I'd rather have Cora for $2 million per rather than Tadahito for $6 or $7 mill per, UNLESS Tadahito has Ichiro-like potential in the MLB.

Jabroni
12-27-2004, 01:53 PM
I stand corrected, I'd rather have Cora for $2 million per rather than Tadahito for $6 or $7 mill per, UNLESS Tadahito has Ichiro-like potential in the MLB.The White Sox only offered Iguchi a 2-year, $4 million contract.

JKryl
12-27-2004, 02:06 PM
He's the 3B that wants to come to the MLB. Iguchi plays 2B and SS.

Tadahito Iguchi's stats:
http://www.japanesebaseball.com/players/player.jsp?PlayerID=970

By the way, it's my 1000th post! :supernana:
Good link, but I was wondering if anyone has tried to translate BA's in the Japanese league to our Major League? Since more and more players are making a move to the states, it may answer a lot of questions.

Congrats on the 1,000th post. How long did it take?

kittle42
12-27-2004, 02:20 PM
Congrats on the 1,000th post. How long did it take?
5, 6 days.

Jabroni
12-27-2004, 02:26 PM
5, 6 days.One month.

pudge
12-27-2004, 02:34 PM
One month.
I've been here four years and have only 1200 posts. But since this is the holiday season, I'll resist saying what I really want to say, I'm sure others will say it for me.

lths06
12-27-2004, 02:36 PM
I've been here four years and have only 1200 posts. But since this is the holiday season, I'll resist saying what I really want to say, I'm sure others will say it for me.
I think we'll have our first WSI Pope in a few months:rolleyes:

Jabroni
12-27-2004, 02:39 PM
I've been here four years and have only 1200 posts. But since this is the holiday season, I'll resist saying what I really want to say, I'm sure others will say it for me.Not that I really care about your opinion anyways but I am currently working on various IT certifications (CompTIA, etc.). I study and take tests in a computer lab all day. I already have an IS degree so these certifications come second nature to me. Hence, why I'm posting so much here at WSI. :tongue:

Tekijawa
12-27-2004, 02:41 PM
I've been here four years and have only 1200 posts. But since this is the holiday season, I'll resist saying what I really want to say, I'm sure others will say it for me.
Jabroni... The Tomato award incarnate!

Tekijawa
12-27-2004, 02:42 PM
I already have an IS degree so these certifications come second nature to me. Hence, why I'm posting so much here at WSI. :tongue:
"That depends on what the definition of IS, is."

Jabroni
12-27-2004, 02:45 PM
"That depends on what the definition of IS, is."(Computer) Information Systems. :wink:

WhiteSoxFan84
12-27-2004, 02:58 PM
The White Sox only offered Iguchi a 2-year, $4 million contract.
I know, but his agent wants somewhere in the neighborhood of $5-$7 mill per.

Jabroni
12-27-2004, 03:07 PM
I know, but his agent wants somewhere in the neighborhood of $5-$7 mill per.No. Iguchi's agent, Moss, referenced the Kaz Matsui deal of 3 years, $20.5 million dollars. He never said that is what he is expecting to get for Iguchi. Kaz Matsui had much better career numbers in Japan than Iguchi...

http://www.japanesebaseball.com/players/player.jsp?PlayerID=18

Moss is trying to pull a Borass and up the price of Iguchi to ridiculous numbers. I doubt it works though.

34 Inch Stick
12-27-2004, 05:06 PM
Proven second basemen who will start full time are earning about 2.5-3 million. There have been several signings which fully define the market. This Sox offer is overly generous and I am sure the agent is aware of that. I imagine he will try to find another team until mid January but eventually sign with the Sox.

OzzieBall2004
12-27-2004, 09:15 PM
Regardless of what happens with this guy, and even though that offer is low, I like the fact that we're gonna spend more money apparently. You can get a pretty quality 2nd baseman for 2-3 million dollars and I hope we find one, be it this guy or someone else.

Jabroni
12-27-2004, 09:37 PM
Regardless of what happens with this guy, and even though that offer is low, I like the fact that we're gonna spend more money apparently. You can get a pretty quality 2nd baseman for 2-3 million dollars and I hope we find one, be it this guy or someone else.Agreed. We will be able to get a quality guy for $2 - $3 million...

Available 2nd Basemen: (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/features/freeagents?type=avail&positionId=4)
Roberto Alomar (Just say NO Kenny!)
Miguel Cairo
Alex Cora
Mark Grudzielanek
Tadahito Iguchi
Placido Polanco (would have to be acquired via trade; will make around $5 million in 2005)

DickAllen72
12-27-2004, 09:56 PM
Agreed. We will be able to get a quality guy for $2 - $3 million...

Available 2nd Basemen: (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/features/freeagents?type=avail&positionId=4)
Roberto Alomar (Just say NO Kenny!)
Miguel Cairo
Alex Cora
Mark Grudzielanek
Tadahito Iguchi
Placido Polanco (would have to be acquired via trade; will make around $5 million in 2005)

Cora would not be an improvement over Harris and nepotism would rear it's ugly head causing dissension on the team. Plus, if we're supposed to be going after speed, why would we want to add a slow utility infielder?

Grudzielanek is also too slow and has no range at 2B. He'd be OK if all we needed was a bat, but that's not what we need.

Cairo would be a good option. Being a RH bat, he could platoon with Willie at 2B. He can also play a little SS, and has decent speed and base running ability, making him a good fit for a utility infielder.

Polanco would be great hitting in the #2 slot and starting at 2B or 3B. But it would depend on whom we would have to trade for him. His salary also might be an issue given JR's budget restraints.

I'd love to roll the dice on Iguchi. From his SB totals he appears to have speed, is supposedly a good fielder and appears to have some pop in his bat. Plus we don't have to give up any talent in return for him. I hope KW can sign him for around $3million per year for two years and see what he can do.

EvilJester99
12-27-2004, 10:06 PM
Now this is on the official Sox page as well... so maybe there is something really coming of this... let's hope!!

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cws/news/cws_news.jsp?ymd=20041227&content_id=926210&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp

Jabroni
12-27-2004, 10:10 PM
http://rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.asp?leaguenum=&sport=MLB&id=6798
Latest News Dec. 27, 2004 - 9:18 pm et

Japanese second baseman Tadahito Iguchi said he has received offers from several major league teams, including the White Sox.
"I hear there have been several offers. The owner of the White Sox said he wants to meet with me," Iguchi said. If signed by the White Sox, Iguchi likely would replace Willie Harris at second base.
Source: The Japan Times (http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getsp.pl5?sb20041228a3.htm)

"White Sox keen on Iguchi"
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getsp.pl5?sb20041228a3.htm

EvilJester99
12-27-2004, 10:12 PM
Plus in the article it says KW is looking at a small handful of people... I assume it may be Cora and Iguchi....and that would make a pretty damn good offseason in my book....

OEO Magglio
12-27-2004, 10:14 PM
Now this is on the official Sox page as well... so maybe there is something really coming of this... let's hope!!

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cws/news/cws_news.jsp?ymd=20041227&content_id=926210&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp
It would be nice but they also ran a story about Nakamura a month or so back on whitesox.com. I'd like to think that something may happen quick with this but I bet you it drags out for a while.

EvilJester99
12-27-2004, 10:20 PM
The thing I like about a move like this is it gives the Sox some recognition in Japan and other places. Shingo has been saying good things about the White Sox organization and he is highly respected in Japan. Maybe Shingo can draw some more interest from the players in Japan to look at the Sox more seriously. Plus not to mention the following the Sox could gain from this as well could be huge. IMO

Jabroni
12-27-2004, 10:24 PM
The thing I like about a move like this is it gives the Sox some recognition in Japan and other places. Shingo has been saying good things about the White Sox organization and he is highly respected in Japan. Maybe Shingo can draw some more interest from the players in Japan to look at the Sox more seriously. Plus not to mention the following the Sox could gain from this as well could be huge. IMOI think you're reading Uncle Jerry's mind right there. Look at what Ichiro has done for Seattle and the popularity of Shingo already. There is a big market for good Japanese ball players. It's almost like a cult following.

EvilJester99
12-27-2004, 10:26 PM
Also another thought is that the Sox could almost use the Japan teams as some what of a minor league system... kind of like teams use Pittsburg and Milwaukee not too long ago... :D:

Jabroni
12-27-2004, 10:29 PM
Also another thought is that the Sox could almost use the Japan teams as some what of a minor league system... kind of like teams use Pittsburg and Milwaukee not too long ago... :D:Yep, cuz lord knows we need some help in the prospect area.

WhiteSoxAaron
12-27-2004, 10:55 PM
any more news on wheather we will sign him?
boston is almost ruled out because of a trade and yankees have wilson and womack i think that we are the ones.....

WhiteSoxAaron
12-27-2004, 11:02 PM
mets are the ones who screwed up everything signin benson to that big of a contract hes a 4th or 5th starter and odalis perez wants a simular contract. wow!!!

Jabroni
12-27-2004, 11:40 PM
any more news on wheather we will sign him?
boston is almost ruled out because of a trade and yankees have wilson and womack i think that we are the ones.....Enrique Wilson is a free agent so the Yankees could want Iguchi as a backup 2nd baseman. But they have Andy Phillips, a good 2B prospect. Boston is not interested anymore after they traded for infielder Ramon Vazquez. Iguchi would probably get the most playing time with the White Sox so maybe that will sway his decision.

jordan23ventura
12-28-2004, 01:12 AM
I think you're reading Uncle Jerry's mind right there. Look at what Ichiro has done for Seattle and the popularity of Shingo already. There is a big market for good Japanese ball players. It's almost like a cult following.
I was going to post something along those same lines.

It would do the Sox well, IMO, to bring in another guy from Japan. Besides the obvious recognition of the Sox in Japan and the fact that the fans already love Shingo, I think it would do wonders for the Sox reputation in the US.

Typically, you only see the big-spending teams (Yanks, Mets, Seattle) go out and take a chance on the Cuban defectors or the Japanese players. To add the Sox to that list shows that they are looking for the best players period, without considering the boundaries.

Just for the above reasons, I'd love to see the Sox sign this guy. Don't insult him with 2 years/$4 mil (remember Guzman got $16mil/4 years). Offer somehing along the lines of 2 years $3.5 - $4.5 per + incentives (AS Game, X-amount at bats, etc.) to earn up to an additional $2mil per year, then add something like a club option for a third year at $6.5mil with a $500K buyout. At worst, if he performs under expectations he still doesn't have a contract that's so horrendous it's untradeable. At best, you get a very good player who is very marketable.

CWSGuy406
12-28-2004, 01:38 AM
I'm judging his defense based on his fielding percentage at SS and 2B. Don't be such a wise-ass. :wink:
Mercy -- judging a fielder based on fielding percentage alone. Where's the "shakes head in dismay" smiley when you need it...

CWSGuy406
12-28-2004, 01:49 AM
Cora would not be an improvement over Harris and nepotism would rear it's ugly head causing dissension on the team. Plus, if we're supposed to be going after speed, why would we want to add a slow utility infielder?

Grudzielanek is also too slow and has no range at 2B. He'd be OK if all we needed was a bat, but that's not what we need.

Cairo would be a good option. Being a RH bat, he could platoon with Willie at 2B. He can also play a little SS, and has decent speed and base running ability, making him a good fit for a utility infielder.

Polanco would be great hitting in the #2 slot and starting at 2B or 3B. But it would depend on whom we would have to trade for him. His salary also might be an issue given JR's budget restraints.

I'd love to roll the dice on Iguchi. From his SB totals he appears to have speed, is supposedly a good fielder and appears to have some pop in his bat. Plus we don't have to give up any talent in return for him. I hope KW can sign him for around $3million per year for two years and see what he can do.
I agree 100% with your sentiments, Allen.

Cairo would be an awesome platoon with Harris -- that tandem would hit right around .300 with a .380 OBP, right around there.

Polanco would be good too. The Phills are in a crappy position, though. I mean, the world knows they really can't do anything with Polanco, they have that kid (name not coming to mind) coming up who's gonna be at second, so they can't have his five million dollars sitting on the bench. Would a deal like Adkins/Munoz + Lower level prospect do it? Give them some bullpen help, we take on all the salary, but only for one year at five million.

I'm down with Iguchi, if he came cheaply. While his OBP fluctuated throughout his career, I think he'd be a nice pickup.

Jabroni
12-28-2004, 01:50 AM
Mercy -- judging a fielder based on fielding percentage alone. Where's the "shakes head in dismay" smiley when you need it...There are other stats (put outs, assists, errors, double plays) to judge him by but seeing him play would be the best option. Obviously, we can't do that. Besides, I already read an article that said he was a great defensive SS but after his shoulder surgery he was moved to 2B.

FarWestChicago
12-28-2004, 02:06 AM
Mercy -- judging a fielder based on fielding percentage alone. Where's the "shakes head in dismay" smiley when you need it...:buddylee

Have I ever told you about my fielding percentage record?

hose
12-28-2004, 06:09 AM
Looks like George Ofman reads WSI.

The Score is reporting the Sox offer to Iguchi this morning......

SSN721
12-28-2004, 08:28 AM
I certainly hope that this pans out, I had wanted Polanco, but judging by what we would have to pay him on top of whatever we would need to give up in a trade it just doesnt seem worth it. If we can get this guy for 3-4 per it would not be too bad.

DrCrawdad
12-28-2004, 09:20 AM
Looks like George Ofman reads WSI.

The Score is reporting the Sox offer to Iguchi this morning......

No doubt George got his info on the offer from WSI.

Jabroni
12-28-2004, 09:58 AM
No doubt George got his info on the offer from WSI.LOL, I believe it. :wink:

fquaye149
12-28-2004, 10:03 AM
No. Iguchi's agent, Moss, referenced the Kaz Matsui deal of 3 years, $20.5 million dollars. He never said that is what he is expecting to get for Iguchi. Kaz Matsui had much better career numbers in Japan than Iguchi...

http://www.japanesebaseball.com/players/player.jsp?PlayerID=18

Moss is trying to pull a Borass and up the price of Iguchi to ridiculous numbers. I doubt it works though.
just another example of JR not opening up his wallet. why won't we just pay him the 3 years 20.5 million???

CHEAP

Jabroni
12-28-2004, 10:06 AM
just another example of JR not opening up his wallet. why won't we just pay him the 3 years 20.5 million???

CHEAP
Is that Lip with a new user name? :wink:

Hangar18
12-28-2004, 10:10 AM
I'm all for signing good Japanese players. I was excited about the possibilities when the Sox signed Shingo, and I that turned out to be a good signing by the Sox. If this guy is good, bring him in.
Im excited if the SOX can sign this guy .......
something to get SOX FANS Smiling again ...........:smile:

T-Bag
12-28-2004, 10:16 AM
OK what is this? Disclaimer I aint too smart.



http://www.sportplanet.com/sbb/elitebaseball/reports/p2244.html

kittle42
12-28-2004, 10:21 AM
Im excited if the SOX can sign this guy .......
something to get SOX FANS Smiling again ...........:smile:
C'mon Henry...:(:

Jabroni
12-28-2004, 11:02 AM
OK what is this? Disclaimer I aint too smart.



http://www.sportplanet.com/sbb/elitebaseball/reports/p2244.htmlThat's just some Fantasy Baseball video game. Iguchi was never on the Pittsburgh Pirates and he's actually only 30 years old.

EvilJester99
12-28-2004, 11:08 AM
Looks like someone was trying to have a little fun with the ol' crystal ball eh? Or is that the crystal bong??:smile:

WhiteSoxAaron
12-28-2004, 01:38 PM
well i think we will get him i thinkour best chance would be a 4year 16 million dollar contract for him or a 2 year 8 million dolllar contract.

jabrch
12-28-2004, 02:16 PM
well i think we will get him i thinkour best chance would be a 4year 16 million dollar contract for him or a 2 year 8 million dolllar contract.
I wouldn't give him 4mm. You can have Mark Grudzelanek for 2mm. Why pay more for a guy who is much more a question mark?

WhiteSoxAaron
12-28-2004, 03:09 PM
well this guys is a better player and can play 2nd and ss

kittle42
12-28-2004, 03:22 PM
well this guys is a better player and can play 2nd and ss
Why that's a broad, sweeping generalization.

chaz171
12-28-2004, 03:40 PM
Well, As much as I am still steamed about the Lee deal, I think an addition up the middle would be necessary Catcher and middle infield.......

jabrch
12-28-2004, 04:05 PM
well this guys is a better player and can play 2nd and ss
No - he can't play SS. That's why they moved him to 2B 2 years ago. And as far as being a better player, I'm assuming that means you have seen him play, and are capable of judging based on that how he'd play against MLB pitching? Cuz its not uncommon for Japanese players to struggle in the bigs. I saw him play 3 times. I don't see anything that convinces me that he is conclusively better than Grudzelanek who has averaged .310/.355/.425 the past 2 seasons.

WhiteSoxAaron
12-28-2004, 09:19 PM
well its looks almost like we might not get him the red sox might but they are pretty much set right? i hope we do becasue that would help us even more

WhiteSoxAaron
12-28-2004, 09:48 PM
im thinkin the only reason we wouldn't sign him would be money

WhiteSoxAaron
12-28-2004, 09:55 PM
cmon people post so we can talk Please

Jabroni
12-28-2004, 10:31 PM
White Sox | Interested in Japanese Star Iguchi? - from www.KFFL.com (http://www.kffl.com/)
Tue, 28 Dec 2004 19:34:45 -0800

Scott Merkin, of Whitesox.MLB.com, reports the Chicago White Sox are one of several major league teams interested in 30-year-old Japanese IF Tadahito Iguchi. The team reportedly offered him $4 million for two years, but he is apparently looking for a deal similar to the three-year, $20.1 million contract SS Kazuo Matsui previously received from the New York Mets. White Sox general manager Ken Williams had no comment on the team's interest in Iguchi.I hope Iguchi isn't serious about expecting a 3-year, $20 million contract. He definately won't be getting it from JR. :tongue:

BridgePortNative
12-28-2004, 11:40 PM
I read about him and I want him, he can hit 25 homers 100 rbi's and has won the Stolen bases title one year. :cool:

WhiteSoxAaron
12-28-2004, 11:53 PM
me too im like addicted to this guy we need him and he needs us just not for that money:tongue:

WhiteSoxAaron
12-28-2004, 11:56 PM
maybe we will sign him for a late christmas present.

BridgePortNative
12-29-2004, 12:09 AM
[QUOTE=Jabroni]His defense at 2B would most likely improve in the MLB, don't you think?

You would think, but Kaz Matsui didn't fair all that well to the change. So could be anyones guess. With enough reps I'm sure any professional will eventually settle in, so I'm not really worried about his Defense, I don't see it taking a hit.

I really hope we get him as he's a local favorite of many here in Japan and a real class act, unlike Nakamura.WOW! Sox Fans in Japan!:tongue:

Baby Fisk
12-29-2004, 08:55 AM
He's looking at the Met's contract to Kaz? Jeez.

The Mets should just die. They give out bad contracts left and right, yet never seem to learn from their mistakes. In the process of screwing themselves, they (like DC this year) ruin things for other teams by driving up prices for good players through spending lots of money on average or below average players.

If there were one franchise that I could toss into the fiery baseball furnace, it would without a doubt be them.The Mets have the worst owners in baseball. There may be cheap and stupid in this world, but would you rather have downright incompetence?

Hangar18
12-29-2004, 10:05 AM
The Mets have the worst owners in baseball. There may be cheap and stupid in this world, but would you rather have downright incompetence?
The NY Mets are downright the dumbest and worst franchise out there, followed closely by the Pirates. From their ill-advised uniform change (Ugliest Uniform in Baseball. black blue and orange? give me a break) to their signing Anyone and Everyone, to bad trades ........this franchise screams Second Rate. The White Sox are Cheap & Stupid ....... but the Mets are just plain STUPID.

FightingBillini
12-29-2004, 11:34 AM
The NY Mets are downright the dumbest and worst franchise out there, followed closely by the Pirates. From their ill-advised uniform change (Ugliest Uniform in Baseball. black blue and orange? give me a break) to their signing Anyone and Everyone, to bad trades ........this franchise screams Second Rate. The White Sox are Cheap & Stupid ....... but the Mets are just plain STUPID.
Yeah, the Mets routinely set the bar for incompetance. Why in the world would they trade away Scott Kazmir for Victor Zambrano? The Benson trade is also insanely illogical and idiotic. They werent even in the playoff race. They just up and traded good prospects for the overrated Benson. That is the reason Benson got such a ridiculous contract from NY. He had them by the balls. They were made to look like complete fools trading great prospects for Benson when they arent even in the race. If they didnt resign him they would have been a laughing stock. Benson knew this, which is why he got probably $3mil a year more than he is worth.

MRKARNO
12-29-2004, 12:03 PM
The NY Mets are downright the dumbest and worst franchise out there, followed closely by the Pirates. From their ill-advised uniform change (Ugliest Uniform in Baseball. black blue and orange? give me a break) to their signing Anyone and Everyone, to bad trades ........this franchise screams Second Rate. The White Sox are Cheap & Stupid ....... but the Mets are just plain STUPID.
If the Sox are stupid then the Mets are mentally retarded (IQ of 30)

WhiteSoxAaron
12-29-2004, 02:24 PM
well i think that we are the front runner and we will get.

kittle42
12-29-2004, 02:28 PM
well i think that we are the front runner and we will get.
Yes, we certainly will get.

soxfan26
12-29-2004, 02:30 PM
well i think that we are the front runner and we will get.
Don't we always get?

WhiteSoxAaron
12-29-2004, 03:09 PM
well i think we get him

kittle42
12-29-2004, 03:35 PM
well i think we get him
I'd definitely be willing to take that bet. I'll give you 50 to 1...no, 100 to 1 odds!

MeanFish
12-29-2004, 04:25 PM
well i think that we are the front runner and we will get. He really missed a couple ellipses. It was SUPPOSED to read: "well I think that we are the front runner and we will get outbid by the Mariners or something because they love japan league players due to being owned by a japanese company."

34 Inch Stick
12-29-2004, 04:31 PM
I'd definitely be willing to take that bet. I'll give you 50 to 1...no, 100 to 1 odds!
Nice! Put me down for $10 of that action.

eshunn2001
12-29-2004, 05:11 PM
The Mets have the worst owners in baseball. There may be cheap and stupid in this world, but would you rather have downright incompetence?
They are awful. But could you imagine being a brewer fan? They actually drew more fans than us, and thier payroll is 27 million dollars. Now that is cheap

MRKARNO
12-29-2004, 05:56 PM
They are awful. But could you imagine being a brewer fan? They actually drew more fans than us, and thier payroll is 27 million dollars. Now that is cheap
The only reason they outdrew us was 10 home dates with the Cubs in which they averaged 42,176.

fquaye149
12-29-2004, 06:21 PM
The only reason they outdrew us was 10 home dates with the Cubs in which they averaged 42,176.
we played the yankees and the red sox at the cell.

And last I checked, the people still count no matter who they came to see.

MRKARNO
12-29-2004, 06:41 PM
we played the yankees and the red sox at the cell.

And last I checked, the people still count no matter who they came to see.
Except that when those teams come to town, a higher amount of White Sox fans go to those games. WHen the Cubs go to Milwaukee, it's more an issue of the cubs fans travelling to Milwaukee. It's not just that a good team is in like it is for the Red Sox and Yankees at the cell. Have you ever watched one of those games? There are louder cheers for the Cubs than for the Brewers.

mikef1331
12-31-2004, 07:05 AM
No new info here, but I found this in the AJ Pierzynski article on the Sox website:
The signing of Orlando Hernandez last week left the White Sox with a couple of million dollars to work with in this offseason. The team also is interested in adding a middle infielder, with an offer to Japanese All-Star second baseman Tadahito Iguchi on the table at two years, $4 million.

Link:Sox.com Article (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cws/news/cws_news.jsp?ymd=20041230&content_id=926404&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp)

dickallen15
12-31-2004, 07:26 AM
No new info here, but I found this in the AJ Pierzynski article on the Sox website:


Link:Sox.com Article (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cws/news/cws_news.jsp?ymd=20041230&content_id=926404&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp)

They should have more than a couple million to work with. Williams said before the Sox had enough left over to pick up a middle infielder which you have to figure is $2 million. They non tendered Schoenweiss which is another $2 million. Hernandez gets $3.5 million this season, and they saved at least $6 million on the Lee deal. So figure Williams figured Schoenweiss as the 5th starter, he's replaced by Hernandez who costs $1.5 million more. It leaves $6.5 million to play with.

Rocklive99
12-31-2004, 06:57 PM
- It's believed the White Sox are only offering Japanese second baseman Tadahito Iguchi $2 million per season.
Iguchi isn't going to get the Kaz Matsui money he was hoping for, but he's worthy of a better deal than Orlando Hernandez received from the White Sox. If no team steps up with a more signficant proposal, Iguchi likely will return to Japan. Dec. 31 - 1:35 pm et
Source: Chicago Tribune (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-041230sox,1,4247471.story?coll=cs-home-headlines)

johnny_mostil
12-31-2004, 07:09 PM
They should have more than a couple million to work with. Williams said before the Sox had enough left over to pick up a middle infielder which you have to figure is $2 million. They non tendered Schoenweiss which is another $2 million. Hernandez gets $3.5 million this season, and they saved at least $6 million on the Lee deal. So figure Williams figured Schoenweiss as the 5th starter, he's replaced by Hernandez who costs $1.5 million more. It leaves $6.5 million to play with.
Agree, and we're speculating about what they have to work with anyway. There's the XM money, and the Washington money that's coming in soon, and if the Yankees keep doing their drunken sailor impersonation, a little bit more in the luxury tax area...

Iguchi is a huge risk. The problem, of course, is he made the equivalent of a couple million bucks a year in Japan. Why should he take a pay cut to live in a foreign country with a bunch of crazy gaijin? On the other hand, why should Williams pay more for Iguchi than for Alex Cora, who has less risk, less reward, and who at least is a legitimate utility infielder?

mdep524
12-31-2004, 07:18 PM
Agree, and we're speculating about what they have to work with anyway. There's the XM money, and the Washington money that's coming in soon, and if the Yankees keep doing their drunken sailor impersonation, a little bit more in the luxury tax area...

Iguchi is a huge risk. The problem, of course, is he made the equivalent of a couple million bucks a year in Japan. Why should he take a pay cut to live in a foreign country with a bunch of crazy gaijin? On the other hand, why should Williams pay more for Iguchi than for Alex Cora, who has less risk, less reward, and who at least is a legitimate utility infielder?
None of us really know anything about this Iguchi character. We can pretend we do, but I know at least I have never head of the guy before last week, and I've never seen him play. But I will say this- if the Sox are sold on the guy and are willing to give him the starting 2B job, then pay him the damn money!

If he's your guy, then get him. Don't let a couple million dollars stop you from getting a starting 2B and solid number 2 hitter. If he's not the starter-caliber guy, then move on. But if his numbers are representative, and the Sox scouts were impressed, make the guy a very good offer and get him in here.

konerko1413
01-02-2005, 09:36 PM
does anyone actually think the sox will get iguchi? they offered him a 2 year 4 million $ deal and his agent turned it down sayin he wants a kaz matsui type, 3 year 21 million $ deal. the sox wouldnt put up that much for a frontline starter, what makes everyone think they would do it for a second basemen when they can get alomar back or cora for much less, st louis denied offering a deal to alomar which means they might be lookin at iguchi and they have the money to get him over the sox
anyone think theres a legitamte way of getting iguchi without bumping up the payroll?

JKryl
01-02-2005, 11:24 PM
does anyone actually think the sox will get iguchi? they offered him a 2 year 4 million $ deal and his agent turned it down sayin he wants a kaz matsui type, 3 year 21 million $ deal. the sox wouldnt put up that much for a frontline starter, what makes everyone think they would do it for a second basemen when they can get alomar back or cora for much less, st louis denied offering a deal to alomar which means they might be lookin at iguchi and they have the money to get him over the sox
anyone think theres a legitamte way of getting iguchi without bumping up the payroll?
I'd still like to see a stat listing how the Japanese batting averages translate to players once they join the Majors. Also, Iguchi's agent can "demand" wants, but when no one else offers, maybe they'll suddenly see the advantages of working in Chicago.


:bundy White Sox baseball, every day an adventure!

JKryl
01-02-2005, 11:35 PM
maybe we will sign him for a late christmas present.
The Sox always like to announce a new player just prior to Soxfest. Maybe...


:bundy White Sox baseball, every day an adventure!

JKryl
01-02-2005, 11:38 PM
-
Of course the Cubune would down play the acquisition. What do you expect? They're starting to run scared! :bandance:

:bundy White Sox baseball, every day an adventure!

hold2dibber
01-03-2005, 01:29 PM
Also, Iguchi's agent can "demand" wants, but when no one else offers, maybe they'll suddenly see the advantages of working in Chicago.
Of, more likely, they'll see the advantages of simply returning to Japan.

Over By There
01-04-2005, 04:24 PM
One month.
Let's go to the numbers:

Look at "This Month" stats. (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/nm_stats.php?do=topposters)

OEO Magglio
01-05-2005, 06:09 AM
http://newyorkpost.com/sports/yankees/37824.htm

Here's the little blurb from the article:
Second baseman Tadahito Iguchi, whom the Yankees had some interest in signing, is close to reaching an agreement with the White Sox.

I'm hoping this is true but I'm trying not to get my hopes up yet.

OEO Magglio
01-05-2005, 06:10 AM
Mods, when I was typing I must have missed the H in his name, I'd appreciate if you guys could fix the title. :smile:

doublem23
01-05-2005, 06:17 AM
If KW can reel in Iguchi and Pierzynski, I'd say this was the most successful off-season since 1999-2000.

OEO Magglio
01-05-2005, 06:20 AM
If KW can reel in Iguchi and Pierzynski, I'd say this was the most successful off-season since 1999-2000.
Thanks for fixing the title. I still hope we land aj but even if this Iguchi thing is true then this has been a great offseason, I assume Iguchi would bat 2nd and we'd be able to move aaron down in the order and probably bat 3rd until Frank comes back. I'd be real excited about this signing but like I said I'm trying not to get my hopes up, though I'm doing just that.

JUribe1989
01-05-2005, 06:54 AM
:bandance: 20-20 Second Basemen:bandance:

Soxzilla
01-05-2005, 07:26 AM
NO WILLIE HARRIS!

HomeFish
01-05-2005, 08:15 AM
I find this highly dubious, given what we've heard about the lowball Sox offer.

munchman33
01-05-2005, 08:31 AM
I find this highly dubious, given what we've heard about the lowball Sox offer.
Its not lowballing when no one else is offering money either. It's called the players true market value, regardless of what his agent says he's worth.

DaveIsHere
01-05-2005, 08:35 AM
I find this highly dubious, given what we've heard about the lowball Sox offer.Incentices Homefish Incentices, oh and deferred money as well.

:KW:
"OK Iguchi, we will give you $2Mil a year, but you can get as much as $14 mil a year by hitting over .400, more than 72 HR's and at least 250RBI's, oh and an on base percentage around .890 with less than 5k's this year, I think these goals are realistic"

munchman33
01-05-2005, 08:36 AM
:bandance: 20-20 Second Basemen:bandance:
That would be awesome.

BeerHandle
01-05-2005, 08:46 AM
If KW can reel in Iguchi and Pierzynski, I'd say this was the most successful off-season since 1999-2000.
I concur!

EvilJester99
01-05-2005, 08:48 AM
I wouldn't put a whole lot into this yet...its only the NY Post and they are as bad as the Enquirer when it comes to stories. I sure as hell hope its true but I am not getting my hopes up until I hear or see its officially done....

ARoman27
01-05-2005, 09:23 AM
The NY Post hasn't met a rumor they didn't like.

I think Iguchi would be an upgrade at 2B, but we still don't solve the back-up IF position. I think it might be wiser for KW to put the additional salary towards AJ Pierzynski and Miguel Cairo. This way we upgrade the C position greatly plus get a backup 2B who can spell Willie Harris against lefties, plus play SS and 3B. Heck Cairo has even played 1B in his career.

infohawk
01-05-2005, 09:29 AM
I find this highly dubious, given what we've heard about the lowball Sox offer.
Well, that offer may have been an initial proposal. The Sox may have increased their offer since then.

Tekijawa
01-05-2005, 09:38 AM
Well, that offer may have been an initial proposal. The Sox may have increased their offer since then.
You mean like they did with Buehrle? I'm pretty sure he ended up making less than their initial offer.

1917
01-05-2005, 09:57 AM
We can't afford both of them....

Flight #24
01-05-2005, 10:03 AM
You mean like they did with Buehrle? I'm pretty sure he ended up making less than their initial offer.
IIRC, Buehrle wanted a ton of money, so Sox renewed him. He then had a mediocre year, so when negotiations restarted, he ended up making less than their initial offer. His risk, his loss.

Or were the Sox supposed to up their initial offer after him having a subpar (for him) season?:?:

Knucksie
01-05-2005, 10:05 AM
I wouldn't put a whole lot into this yet...its only the NY Post and they are as bad as the Enquirer when it comes to stories. I sure as hell hope its true but I am not getting my hopes up until I hear or see its officially done....
I too like the idea, but I'm not going to get my hopes up until we get some kind of reading on the guy in spring training.

Tekijawa
01-05-2005, 10:07 AM
IIRC, Buehrle wanted a ton of money, so Sox renewed him. He then had a mediocre year, so when negotiations restarted, he ended up making less than their initial offer. His risk, his loss.

Or were the Sox supposed to up their initial offer after him having a subpar (for him) season?:?:
My example was given as an arguement against the belief that initial offers always have to go up... Maybe the Sox realized that they were the only ones bidding and they said well you didn't like the first offer here's a second and if you don't like this one you're really not going to like the one that we'll have for you after Friday... in order to speed up the process a little...

Knucksie
01-05-2005, 10:09 AM
The NY Post hasn't met a rumor they didn't like.

I think Iguchi would be an upgrade at 2B, but we still don't solve the back-up IF position. I think it might be wiser for KW to put the additional salary towards AJ Pierzynski and Miguel Cairo. This way we upgrade the C position greatly plus get a backup 2B who can spell Willie Harris against lefties, plus play SS and 3B. Heck Cairo has even played 1B in his career.
If they sign Iguchi, I think you will hear spring training quotes about how comfortable they are with Gload being able to play 1st, Valdez to fill in at SS and that they are pleasantly surprised at Burke's ability to fill in at 3rd on occassion. Don't forget they will also tell you that Uribe can move over to 3rd to give Crede a break too.

Not saying I believe all of that...

Flight #24
01-05-2005, 10:13 AM
My example was given as an arguement against the belief that initial offers always have to go up... Maybe the Sox realized that they were the only ones bidding and they said well you didn't like the first offer here's a second and if you don't like this one you're really not going to like the one that we'll have for you after Friday... in order to speed up the process a little...
Theoretically that can happen, but it would be hard to do that in a short negotiation like this one. Buehrle's was over a year or more, during which time his performance became a factor. Assuming no additional info came out on Iguchi, I don't know that it would happen here.

It could, but IMO extremely unlikely.

Tekijawa
01-05-2005, 10:15 AM
If they sign Iguchi, I think you will hear spring training quotes about how comfortable they are with Gload being able to play 1st, Valdez to fill in at SS and that they are pleasantly surprised at Burke's ability to fill in at 3rd on occassion. Don't forget they will also tell you that Uribe can move over to 3rd to give Crede a break too.

Not saying I believe all of that...I'd feel comfortable with that... If Crede needed a break at 3rd they could move Uribe there and have Valdez or more likely Harris play SS, Harris as a Back up at 2nd is a lot better than him starting and to have a catcher that doesn't bat .270 would put us on par with all but about 4 teams in that area... if they can get Iguchi then we'll be pretty solid, I can settle for a team with 1 hole compaired to a team with about 6 holes last year, 7 if you count borchard in right.

I'm not worried about the way the team looks right now, the addition of Iguchi would make me feel a lot more comfortable. This team will either be a really good team or a really bad team, every day I wake up I lean closer and closer to believing that this will be a really good team.

RichFitztightly
01-05-2005, 10:16 AM
My example was given as an arguement against the belief that initial offers always have to go up... Maybe the Sox realized that they were the only ones bidding and they said well you didn't like the first offer here's a second and if you don't like this one you're really not going to like the one that we'll have for you after Friday... in order to speed up the process a little...
I thought the Burly-mon issue was the Sox wanted to sign him to an extension and the first year they were going to give him was really low and Mark wanted more. So the Sox said, "Screw it, we have an option for you, so we're going sign you for even less than we offered you." Therefore, he played one season at a lower amount than he was originally offered, something like $375,000 as compared to $475,000 the Sox offered originally. Eventually he signed an extension during that season, but still played at the original price.

At least that was my understanding of the situation. It's been awile so I hope I'm still accurate.

infohawk
01-05-2005, 10:17 AM
My example was given as an arguement against the belief that initial offers always have to go up... Maybe the Sox realized that they were the only ones bidding and they said well you didn't like the first offer here's a second and if you don't like this one you're really not going to like the one that we'll have for you after Friday... in order to speed up the process a little...They may not have increased their offer by much. I don't think that the Sox are necessarily competing against other teams for his services. I read somewhere that if he didn't receive an offer he liked, he may just stay in Japan. The issue may become how badly he wants to play in the United States.

kittle42
01-05-2005, 10:24 AM
Yay! Another all-day endless speculation thread!

DrCrawdad
01-05-2005, 10:25 AM
If you're Wee Willie Harris how do you feel about your prospect of being the regular 2nd baseman for the Sox when they've traded for Alomar two years in a row and now reports that they tried for Todd Walker, Eckstein and Iguchi?

DaveIsHere
01-05-2005, 10:27 AM
If you're Wee Willie Harris how do you feel about your prospect of being the regular 2nd baseman for the Sox when they've traded for Alomar two years in a row and now reports that they tried for Todd Walker, Eckstein and Iguchi?
Well if a deal doesnt go down, maybe it will light a fire under his rear.

Jjav829
01-05-2005, 10:31 AM
If you're Wee Willie Harris how do you feel about your prospect of being the regular 2nd baseman for the Sox when they've traded for Alomar two years in a row and now reports that they tried for Todd Walker, Eckstein and Iguchi?
I'd be happy they believe if me enough to actually consider me a viable option, even if they are looking at alternatives. I'd hope they don't get anyone else and then I'd work my ass off to prove I should be the everyday second baseman.

I know what you are saying, that they constantly keep looking at other players for the position, but still, they have kept him on the roster so it's not like there isn't some belief there that Willie can be an everyday player. Now if we sign "Iggy" (you can thank me and credit me for that nickname later :D: ), then I think Willie will find himself on another teams roster next year.

Knucksie
01-05-2005, 10:36 AM
I'd feel comfortable with that... If Crede needed a break at 3rd they could move Uribe there and have Valdez or more likely Harris play SS,
I don't think there's any part of a SOX equation that has Harris in the mix to play SS, even just to fill in for a game.

BigEdWalsh
01-05-2005, 10:36 AM
If you're Wee Willie Harris how do you feel about your prospect of being the regular 2nd baseman for the Sox when they've traded for Alomar two years in a row and now reports that they tried for Todd Walker, Eckstein and Iguchi?
:dunno: Well, for one, I might think I had better hone up my bunting skills.

Knucksie
01-05-2005, 10:38 AM
If you're Wee Willie Harris how do you feel about your prospect of being the regular 2nd baseman for the Sox when they've traded for Alomar two years in a row and now reports that they tried for Todd Walker, Eckstein and Iguchi?
If Willie has the mentality to be a quality everyday player, he shouldn't mind some competition. He should have some confidence in his ability.

EvilJester99
01-05-2005, 10:51 AM
The Snore is now quoting the report....<Shrugs>

Palehose13
01-05-2005, 10:54 AM
If you're Wee Willie Harris how do you feel about your prospect of being the regular 2nd baseman for the Sox when they've traded for Alomar two years in a row and now reports that they tried for Todd Walker, Eckstein and Iguchi?
Probably the same way Aaron Rowand felt every year except this year.

mdep524
01-05-2005, 10:57 AM
If you're Wee Willie Harris how do you feel about your prospect of being the regular 2nd baseman for the Sox when they've traded for Alomar two years in a row and now reports that they tried for Todd Walker, Eckstein and Iguchi?
I couldn't care less what Wee Willie feels about the move. The Sox' obligation is to put the best possible team on the field, not worry about everybody's feelings. Upgrading Willie's position would significantly improve the team.

If the Sox can come away with both Pierzynski and Iguchi, and they do have the money to sign both, the offseason will be a huge success.

ARoman27
01-05-2005, 11:49 AM
Iguchi definitely wants to play major league baseball. The 2 previous off-seasons he requested to be "posted" by the Hawks, and the Hawks GM decided not to grant Iguchi's wish.

Iguchi already worked out for clubs in early December. The Red Sox were one of the teams looking at him, then they turned around and made a trade with San Diego to pick up Ramon Vazquez. I don't know what that says about Iguchi's skills, but he just turned 30 and has had shoulder problems - one that made him have surgery, miss a season and switch positions from SS to 2B.

As for my original assessment that a better option would be to go with AJ Pierzynski and Miguel Cairo, I believe it still holds up. The only rumor we have right now is that KW offered a 2-year/$4m to Iguchi, while Iguchi is looking for Kaz Matsui numbers (3-years/$20.1M). That is a huge gap and one that KW is most likely not going to try and minimize. It will basically come down to Iguchi's willingness to play in the majors (which seems high).

If the Sox do sign Iguchi then we still have a hole for a backup 3B. Burke would be the only option that we would have. If Pierzynski is signed as well (doubt it) then I don't see how the Sox would be carrying 3 catchers, unless they cut Davis even though we just signed him to $1M. I also don't see anyway that Wilson Valdez makes the 25-man roster. We already will have Perez, Harris, Gload, and Burke/Davis. The fifth bench spot could go to Valdez, but once Frank Thomas is back and healthy then you'll see either Everett or Dye taking up that 5th spot. Does this mean that Alex Escobar is bound for Charlotte?

DrCrawdad
01-05-2005, 12:01 PM
I couldn't care less what Wee Willie feels about the move. The Sox' obligation is to put the best possible team on the field, not worry about everybody's feelings. Upgrading Willie's position would significantly improve the team.

If the Sox can come away with both Pierzynski and Iguchi, and they do have the money to sign both, the offseason will be a huge success.

I don't care if Willie's feelings are hurt. And I agree that the Sox need to put the best team on the field.

What I was trying to say is that if the Sox starting 2nd baseman is Willie Harris, then whatever KW says we know by their attempted moves that they don't have confidence in Willie as a regular player. If they did have confidence in Willie, then they wouldn't be seeking to replace him at every turn over the last 3 yrs.

Willie has to be looking at this and thinking the same thing, that the Sox don't believe in him. If that motivates Willie, then fine.

If Willie is the starting 2nd baseman, then I don't want to hear about how they have confidence in Willie or that they know he'll get the job done. If Willie is the starter, don't blow smoke up my (butt).

Hangar18
01-05-2005, 12:10 PM
The Sox' obligation is to put the best possible team on the field, not worry about everybody's feelings.


:reinsy
" CORRECTION ! My Obligation is to put the Cheapest
Possible Team on the Field, not to worry about SOX Fan Feelings.
I'll DOWNGRADE (Gordon/MJackson, Durham/Harris, Foulke/Koch, Ventura/Snopek, Magglio/Dye, Caballo/Posednik)
at a position if it means less money out of my pocket! "

ARoman27
01-05-2005, 12:17 PM
:reinsy
" CORRECTION ! My Obligation is to put the Cheapest
Possible Team on the Field, not to worry about SOX Fan Feelings.
I'll DOWNGRADE (Gordon/MJackson, Durham/Harris, Foulke/Koch, Ventura/Snopek, Magglio/Dye, Caballo/Posednik)
at a position if it means less money out of my pocket! "
I don't see how we downgraded with the Carlos Lee trade. If Iguchi and Pierzynski are signed then the Carlos Lee traded would of brought us:

Podsednik (a much needed leadoff presence with speed)
Vizcaino (a hard-throwing bullpen presence)
Iguchi (a 2B that can hit near .300 with great OBP capabilities and power)
Pierzynski (a legitimate MLB catcher who can hit .300 with a high OBP)
PTBNL

3 of those players we got directly for Carlos Lee the other 2 we're able to pursue because we got rid of Carlos Lee's higher contract. The Carlos Lee trade was a great move by Kenny Williams this off-season.

1917
01-05-2005, 12:19 PM
I don't see how we downgraded with the Carlos Lee trade. If Iguchi and Pierzynski are signed then the Carlos Lee traded would of brought us:

Podsednik (a much needed leadoff presence with speed)
Vizcaino (a hard-throwing bullpen presence)
Iguchi (a 2B that can hit near .300 with great OBP capabilities and power)
Pierzynski (a legitimate MLB catcher who can hit .300 with a high OBP)
PTBNL

3 of those players we got directly for Carlos Lee the other 2 we're able to pursue because we got rid of Carlos Lee's higher contract. The Carlos Lee trade was a great move by Kenny Williams this off-season.
IF we can get them both and that a BIG IF! But God that would be great! :bandance:

JUribe1989
01-05-2005, 12:21 PM
The Snore is now quoting the report....<Shrugs>
What exactly did they say?

ARoman27
01-05-2005, 12:21 PM
IF we can get them both and that a BIG IF! But God that would be great! :bandance:
I agree with you, but don't you think it's still a successful move by KW if we only sign Iguchi? Or if Iguchi isn't signed but we get Pierzynski and Cairo?

mdep524
01-05-2005, 12:21 PM
I don't see how we downgraded with the Carlos Lee trade. If Iguchi and Pierzynski are signed then the Carlos Lee traded would of brought us:

Podsednik (a much needed leadoff presence with speed)
Vizcaino (a hard-throwing bullpen presence)
Iguchi (a 2B that can hit near .300 with great OBP capabilities and power)
Pierzynski (a legitimate MLB catcher who can hit .300 with a high OBP)
PTBNL

3 of those players we got directly for Carlos Lee the other 2 we're able to pursue because we got rid of Carlos Lee's higher contract. The Carlos Lee trade was a great move by Kenny Williams this off-season.
Not that I am a big fan of the Lee trade, but you forgot to mention Orlando Hernandez, who was signed using the "savings" from dumping CLee.

ARoman27
01-05-2005, 12:23 PM
I didn't mention El Duque because you have to figure that some of the signings and increase in salaries are absorbed with the loss of Ordonez's contract, as well as with Jose Valentin off the payroll.

FightingBillini
01-05-2005, 12:23 PM
:reinsy
" CORRECTION ! My Obligation is to put the Cheapest
Possible Team on the Field, not to worry about SOX Fan Feelings.
I'll DOWNGRADE (Gordon/MJackson, Durham/Harris, Foulke/Koch, Ventura/Snopek, Magglio/Dye, Caballo/Posednik)
at a position if it means less money out of my pocket! "
You cant make the arguement about Dye and Podsednik because they actually spent the money this year (well, most of it) that they saved from not keeping Lee and Maggs. Most importantly, I would much rather have Podsednik, Vizcaino, El Duque, and whatever catcher and or second baseman we sign than Carlos Lee.

In fact, I will garauntee that Dye will have a better year than Maggs. Higher average, more homers, better defense, and more games played. As for Podsednik, I think he will have a great year, but he doesn't need to outperform Lee in order for this trade to be a good one. They got a very good righty reliever, and used the money they got to sign a legitimate pitcher. They also are attempting to sign Iguchi and Queerzinski. Hangar, I will be the guy on your right carrying a torch and a mase when we form the lynch mob and decent on Uncle Jerry's mansion, but I can say the Lee trade was not about cheapness. It was a good move. Not everything Reinsdorf does is stupid, just most of it.:redneck

Mickster
01-05-2005, 12:23 PM
I don't see how we downgraded with the Carlos Lee trade. If Iguchi and Pierzynski are signed then the Carlos Lee traded would of brought us:

Podsednik (a much needed leadoff presence with speed)
Vizcaino (a hard-throwing bullpen presence)
Iguchi (a 2B that can hit near .300 with great OBP capabilities and power)
Pierzynski (a legitimate MLB catcher who can hit .300 with a high OBP)
PTBNL
Forgot El Duque.... :tongue:

mdep524
01-05-2005, 12:24 PM
I agree with you, but don't you think it's still a successful move by KW if we only sign Iguchi? Or if Iguchi isn't signed but we get Pierzynski and Cairo?
Gotta get BOTH Iguchi and Pierzynski. It's well within our budget, and both would immediately become starters on this team. It would turn two weakness positions into potential strengths, and make the offseason a successful one.

EvilJester99
01-05-2005, 12:24 PM
What exactly did they say?

The Snore is just reporting According to the NY Post the Sox are close to Signing Tadahito Iguchi....so they are just quoting the report and not really adding anything to it...take it for what its worth though.

Mickster
01-05-2005, 12:25 PM
I didn't mention El Duque because you have to figure that some of the signings and increase in salaries are absorbed with the loss of Ordonez's contract, as well as with Jose Valentin off the payroll.
The $$ from Maggs went to Freddy, Jose Contreras and raises to a couple of players. Valentin's $$ went to Uribe, among others.

mdep524
01-05-2005, 12:28 PM
I didn't mention El Duque because you have to figure that some of the signings and increase in salaries are absorbed with the loss of Ordonez's contract, as well as with Jose Valentin off the payroll.
Good point, but at the time of the Lee trade the Sox, by their own admission, were pretty much maxed out salary wise. So without a trade any El Duque/Matt Clement, etc.- type signing would not have happened. Thus, using your (good) logic, I would say Hernandez would count under the Lee trade, but a lesser move, like Iguchi, would not.

ARoman27
01-05-2005, 12:29 PM
Gotta get BOTH Iguchi and Pierzynski. It's well within our budget, and both would immediately become starters on this team. It would turn two weakness positions into potential strengths, and make the offseason a successful one.
I think it would be HUGE to get both Iguchi and Pierzynski, but the reality of it is out of the White Sox control. If Iguchi is dead-set on making Kaz Matsui money then I see no way the Sox are going to sign him. Do you see the Sox signing a un-proven MLB player to a 3-year/$21M deal? I certainly don't. I think it has the potential to be a very exciting signing, but I have to admit that I have some reservations on Iguchi's ability to make the transition to MLB.

Signing Pierzynksi and Cairo is well within our budget and Cairo can platoon with Harris at 2B, plus add relief at SS and 3B. It makes perfect sense. Well, too much sense so it obviously is not going to happen.

1917
01-05-2005, 12:31 PM
I agree with you, but don't you think it's still a successful move by KW if we only sign Iguchi? Or if Iguchi isn't signed but we get Pierzynski and Cairo?
Yeah it would be successful I guess, I just wish knew more about him...I drafted Kaz Matsui for my fantasy team last year based on his hype and I dropped him in June!

mdep524
01-05-2005, 12:35 PM
I think it would be HUGE to get both Iguchi and Pierzynski, but the reality of it is out of the White Sox control. If Iguchi is dead-set on making Kaz Matsui money then I see no way the Sox are going to sign him. Do you see the Sox signing a un-proven MLB player to a 3-year/$21M deal? I certainly don't. I think it has the potential to be a very exciting signing, but I have to admit that I have some reservations on Iguchi's ability to make the transition to MLB.

Signing Pierzynksi and Cairo is well within our budget and Cairo can platoon with Harris at 2B, plus add relief at SS and 3B. It makes perfect sense. Well, too much sense so it obviously is not going to happen.
There's absolutely no possible way Iguchi will be making $7 million next year. If he's "dead set" on Kaz Matsui money, then he's "dead set" on not playing baseball next year. He's going to be paid what the market says, and $7mil/year ain't happening. If he isn't satisfied with the offers out there he can always go back to Japan, true. But it seems like he wants to play in the US, and the Sox are a perfect situation for him (starting job, big market, Japanese player on the team). I'll agree that Cairo would make a good fallback option, though likely in a lesser role with the team.

ARoman27
01-05-2005, 12:39 PM
Yeah it would be successful I guess, I just wish knew more about him...I drafted Kaz Matsui for my fantasy team last year based on his hype and I dropped him in June!
Exactly! We have to be suspect of Iguchi's ability to play in the major leagues. Matsui is a perfect example of a player not being able to make the transition. Iguchi has played mainly on artificial turf in Japan (much like Matsui) so we can assume that he might have some fielding issues when he gets to the major's (much like Matsui). Also, Iguchi has only had 2 good seasons in his career - fortunately they happen to be the last 2 years. He has averaged 25 homers per season over the last 4 years and his home park is considered a pitcher friendly park, so that is good.

The Japanese league is a far inferior league talent-wise. For instance Iguchi hit .333 with 24 HRs and 89 RBIs last season. Benny Agabyani hit .300 with 35 HRs and 100 RBIs in the same division.

EvilJester99
01-05-2005, 12:44 PM
Now the Score is adding that the Sox have confirmed they are still talking to Iguchi's agent and Aj's agent as well...I guess we will see if anything comes of it. Stay tuned. :D:

nodiggity59
01-05-2005, 12:48 PM
Can anyone find Hideki Matsui's and Ichiro's numbers in Japan? I have a feeling a guy's success over here may be based on more than numbers because, statistically, there's only so good you can be. Ichiro, for instance, probably didn't hit .450 in Japan, but he can still hit .370-.380 here. If Iguchi is a real toolsy athletic guy, his numbers might not dip too much.

duke of dorwood
01-05-2005, 12:48 PM
Also, Iguchi has only had 2 good seasons in his career - fortunately they happen to be the last 2 years. He has averaged 25 homers per season over the last 4 years and his home park is considered a pitcher friendly park, so that is good.


Harris has had NO good seasons

Ol' No. 2
01-05-2005, 12:49 PM
If the Sox sign Iguchi, who's the utility man? Not Harris. The utility IF has to be able to play SS and 3B, too. If they use Valdez or someone else as the utility IF, then there's no roster room for Harris.

12 pitchers
2 catcher
1 DH
6 IF
4 OF

Unless they carry only 11 pitchers.

Randar68
01-05-2005, 12:56 PM
If the Sox sign Iguchi, who's the utility man? Not Harris. The utility IF has to be able to play SS and 3B, too. If they use Valdez or someone else as the utility IF, then there's no roster room for Harris.

12 pitchers
2 catcher
1 DH
6 IF
4 OF

Unless they carry only 11 pitchers.
With that starting rotation, why carry 12? Carry 11 pitchers to start the season if the currently projected rotation is set and healthy...

Randar68
01-05-2005, 12:58 PM
Can anyone find Hideki Matsui's and Ichiro's numbers in Japan? I have a feeling a guy's success over here may be based on more than numbers because, statistically, there's only so good you can be. Ichiro, for instance, probably didn't hit .450 in Japan, but he can still hit .370-.380 here. If Iguchi is a real toolsy athletic guy, his numbers might not dip too much.The pitchers int he states generally throw quite a bit harder IIRC. The best thing about Iguchi is he has a pretty good eye, which is precisely what we need at the #2 spot... He strikes out a bit much for my tastes that high in the order, but who knows? Will he really be an upgrade over Willie?

http://www.japanesebaseball.com/players/player.jsp?PlayerID=970

FightingBillini
01-05-2005, 12:59 PM
If the Sox sign Iguchi, who's the utility man? Not Harris. The utility IF has to be able to play SS and 3B, too. If they use Valdez or someone else as the utility IF, then there's no roster room for Harris.

12 pitchers
2 catcher
1 DH
6 IF
4 OF

Unless they carry only 11 pitchers.
I dont think there is any reason we will need 12 pitchers this year. What we really need is to do is trade Timo for Chone Figgins.
This is actually the first time I thought about this. Our lineup is pretty congested. Oh well, Im not the GM:gulp:

Brian26
01-05-2005, 01:01 PM
If the Sox sign Iguchi, who's the utility man? Not Harris. The utility IF has to be able to play SS and 3B, too. If they use Valdez or someone else as the utility IF, then there's no roster room for Harris.

12 pitchers
2 catcher
1 DH
6 IF
4 OF

Unless they carry only 11 pitchers.
And some people want to carry 3 catchers if we get AJ. Should be interesting.

EvilJester99
01-05-2005, 01:05 PM
Well the Sox could always use Kelly Dransfeldt<SP?>:rolleyes:

calderon
01-05-2005, 01:13 PM
some believe that Burke is capable of a backup role at third,first, and the outfield.


And some people want to carry 3 catchers if we get AJ. Should be interesting.

ARoman27
01-05-2005, 01:13 PM
Ichiro and Hideki Matsui last 3 seasons in Japan before making the transition, and first 3 seasons in the states:

Ichiro
1998 .358avg/.414obp/.518slg (13HR)
1999 .343avg/.412obp/.572slg (21HR)
2000 .387avg/.460obp/.539slg (12HR)

2001 .350avg/.384obp/.457slg (8HR)
2002 .321avg/.390obp/.425slg (8HR)
2003 .312avg/.352obp/.436slg (13HR)

Hideki Matsui
2000 .316avg/.443obp/.654slg (42HR)
2001 .333avg/.466obp/.617slg (36HR)
2002 .334avg/.458obp/.692slg (50HR)

2003 .287avg/.356obp/.435slg (16HR)
2004 .298avg/.390obp/.522slg (31HR)

I think it's obvious that Ichiro is definitely an exception, but as you can see a guy like Ichiro who is more of a singles hitter can flourish more in the major's, where as Hideki definitely saw a drop in production. Evidently, with the exception of Ichiro, it takes about a year of growing pains before a Japanese player can become productive.

konerko1413
01-05-2005, 01:30 PM
Evidently, with the exception of Ichiro, it takes about a year of growing pains before a Japanese player can become productive.
then we can expect alot from shingo this year

last year: 6-4 / 19 saves / 2.31 era

Chrisaway
01-05-2005, 01:35 PM
Wow if they get both AJ and Iguchi KW will have turned a mediocre 3rd place team into a contender:smile: . But I have to say this off season has been one helluva roller coaster ride. I wont believe anything until it happens.

konerko1413
01-05-2005, 01:37 PM
i would love to have iguchi but i believe he made a statement saying he was very sure hed be signing with the red sox, they dont have a 2nd basemen now and have the money to over bid the sox, i hope we get him though

ARoman27
01-05-2005, 01:39 PM
i would love to have iguchi but i believe he made a statement saying he was very sure hed be signing with the red sox, they dont have a 2nd basemen now and have the money to over bid the sox, i hope this is true though, that we will get him
Red Sox traded Dave Roberts to San Diego for Ramon Vazquez. They also made that transaction after watching Iguchi workout in Southern California at the beginning of December

Ol' No. 2
01-05-2005, 02:13 PM
With that starting rotation, why carry 12? Carry 11 pitchers to start the season if the currently projected rotation is set and healthy...Most teams carry 12 pitchers at least for the first month or two since starters generally don't go that deep yet, especially when the weather is still cool. Hernandez averages only about 6 IP/GS. If your bullpen is putting in 2-3 IP every day, then if a starter gets whacked early you start to wear the BP thin. Not that you can't start the season with 11, just that most teams err on the side of having too many pitchers rather than too few.

pythons007
01-05-2005, 02:24 PM
Who has heard of anything further about signing a 2B? We definately need one, because Harris sucks. He can't hit for s*** and isn't worth keeping in the field.

ARoman27
01-05-2005, 02:27 PM
Most teams carry 12 pitchers at least for the first month or two since starters generally don't go that deep yet, especially when the weather is still cool. Hernandez averages only about 6 IP/GS. If your bullpen is putting in 2-3 IP every day, then if a starter gets whacked early you start to wear the BP thin. Not that you can't start the season with 11, just that most teams err on the side of having too many pitchers rather than too few.
Actually "most" teams do not start the season with 12 pitchers. The majority of teams set the roster with 11 pitchers, as is the norm. 12 pitcher staff is normally done when a team is out of options on a pitcher and doesn't want to risk losing that pitcher through waivers. Otherwise they will move pitchers up and down from AAA to the big's.

What a major league team really doesn't want to do is have an arm in the bullpen that goes unused. Especially at the beginning of the season when it is very important for these pitchers to be seeing regular action.

Ol' No. 2
01-05-2005, 03:01 PM
Actually "most" teams do not start the season with 12 pitchers. The majority of teams set the roster with 11 pitchers, as is the norm. 12 pitcher staff is normally done when a team is out of options on a pitcher and doesn't want to risk losing that pitcher through waivers. Otherwise they will move pitchers up and down from AAA to the big's.

What a major league team really doesn't want to do is have an arm in the bullpen that goes unused. Especially at the beginning of the season when it is very important for these pitchers to be seeing regular action.I'm not sure where I can find opening day rosters to check the facts, but the Sox have opened with 12 pitchers for the past several years, and it seems to me that, at least lately, most other teams have done so, too.

WhiteSoxNation
01-05-2005, 03:06 PM
If KW can reel in Iguchi and Pierzynski, I'd say this was the most successful off-season since 1999-2000.
OMG that would be sweet...

ARoman27
01-05-2005, 03:13 PM
I'm not sure where I can find opening day rosters to check the facts, but the Sox have opened with 12 pitchers for the past several years, and it seems to me that, at least lately, most other teams have done so, too.
Of course the Sox have been opening the last few years with 12 man staffs, but we also didn't carry qualified 4th and 5th starters. Although I also recall that the decision wasn't made until the last possible day each season because they couldn't decide on 12 pitchers or 3 catchers.

I will state now that 12 pitchers will not be on the 25-man roster on Opening Day.

Ol' No. 2
01-05-2005, 03:21 PM
I will state now that 12 pitchers will not be on the 25-man roster on Opening Day.If they sign Iguchi or Pierzynski, it's almost guaranteed, since they will need another utility IF and they will keep Harris on the roster. But if they don't sign Iguchi or Pierzynski, who would be the 25th man if they start with 11 pitchers?

11 pitchers
4 OF (Dye, Rowand, Pods, Perez)
6 IF (PK, Gload, Harris, Uribe, Crede, Valdez/other)
1 DH (Everett)
2 C (Burke, Davis)

That's 24. I think in this case they'd more likely start with 12 pitchers.

A. Cavatica
01-05-2005, 03:24 PM
Hankins is another option for a third catcher/3B/utility role (competing with Burke)...

ARoman27
01-05-2005, 03:28 PM
KW is not done re-tooling this team yet. If Iguchi isn't signed, or Pierzynski then we will definitely see one more signing out of KW. I would expect it to be a backup IF of some sort (Cairo or Cora).

I also wouldn't rule out one minor trade to be made. Especially if another FA is signed because room will have to be made on the 40-man roster. I see Jon Adkins as the odd-man out in the bullpen because I think Ozzie likes the luxury of Cotts as another LHP out of the bullpen. What is Adkins situation? How many options does he have left? That could play a factor.

What it comes down to is Iguchi or Pierzynski are going to be signed. Either both of them or one of them. If so, we'll have to open up 2 roster spots on the 40-man. Who become the odd men out?

konerko1413
01-05-2005, 03:30 PM
KW is not done re-tooling this team yet. If Iguchi isn't signed, or Pierzynski then we will definitely see one more signing out of KW. I would expect it to be a backup IF of some sort (Cairo or Cora).

I also wouldn't rule out one minor trade to be made. Especially if another FA is signed because room will have to be made on the 40-man roster. I see Jon Adkins as the odd-man out in the bullpen because I think Ozzie likes the luxury of Cotts as another LHP out of the bullpen. What is Adkins situation? How many options does he have left? That could play a factor.

What it comes down to is Iguchi or Pierzynski are going to be signed. Either both of them or one of them. If so, we'll have to open up 2 roster spots on the 40-man. Who become the odd men out?
i dont think ciaro would sign for a back up role, i think the reason he didnt resign with the yankees is cuz he thaught it would be a back up role

1917
01-05-2005, 03:30 PM
KW is not done re-tooling this team yet. If Iguchi isn't signed, or Pierzynski then we will definitely see one more signing out of KW. I would expect it to be a backup IF of some sort (Cairo or Cora).

I also wouldn't rule out one minor trade to be made. Especially if another FA is signed because room will have to be made on the 40-man roster. I see Jon Adkins as the odd-man out in the bullpen because I think Ozzie likes the luxury of Cotts as another LHP out of the bullpen. What is Adkins situation? How many options does he have left? That could play a factor.

What it comes down to is Iguchi or Pierzynski are going to be signed. Either both of them or one of them. If so, we'll have to open up 2 roster spots on the 40-man. Who become the odd men out?
A.J. has been dragging his ass on this for week...if the offer was what he wanted he would have been signed already.

ARoman27
01-05-2005, 03:32 PM
A.J. has been dragging his ass on this for week...if the offer was what he wanted he would have been signed already.
Take it for what it's worth but a friend of mine in the Bay Area told me he heard John Miller on the radio today saying that the Sox were the favorites to land AJP

ARoman27
01-05-2005, 03:33 PM
i dont think ciaro would sign for a back up role, i think the reason he didnt resign with the yankees is cuz he thaught it would be a back up role
Don't be surprised if Cairo is re-signed by the Yankees after all is said and done.

konerko1413
01-05-2005, 03:34 PM
Don't be surprised if Cairo is re-signed by the Yankees after all is said and done.
yeah, if the cards end up with alomar, i dont think ciaro can get a starting job much elsewhere

Ol' No. 2
01-05-2005, 03:37 PM
KW is not done re-tooling this team yet. If Iguchi isn't signed, or Pierzynski then we will definitely see one more signing out of KW. I would expect it to be a backup IF of some sort (Cairo or Cora).

I also wouldn't rule out one minor trade to be made. Especially if another FA is signed because room will have to be made on the 40-man roster. I see Jon Adkins as the odd-man out in the bullpen because I think Ozzie likes the luxury of Cotts as another LHP out of the bullpen. What is Adkins situation? How many options does he have left? That could play a factor.

What it comes down to is Iguchi or Pierzynski are going to be signed. Either both of them or one of them. If so, we'll have to open up 2 roster spots on the 40-man. Who become the odd men out?If he signs Cairo/Cora, I think he'd take Valdez' spot in my roster, so that's still 24. I'm also assuming if they sign AJ, they'd demote/trade Burke or Davis. Burke's lousy at 3B, and IMO, they won't keep him just for that. So we're still at 24. The 25th man is usually decided in spring training, and you never know what will happen then. Escobar, if healthy, could fight his way onto the roster.