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ARoman27
01-05-2005, 04:46 PM
If he signs Cairo/Cora, I think he'd take Valdez' spot in my roster, so that's still 24. I'm also assuming if they sign AJ, they'd demote/trade Burke or Davis. Burke's lousy at 3B, and IMO, they won't keep him just for that. So we're still at 24. The 25th man is usually decided in spring training, and you never know what will happen then. Escobar, if healthy, could fight his way onto the roster.
If Pierzynski can get signed then you would have a very interesting battle for the back-up catcher role. The Sox just gave Davis $1M so I don't see them releasing him, but that would give us 2 left-handed hitting catchers. It would be a nice luxury to have a right-handed hitting catcher too. At 33 Burke can't be expected to produce too much beyond what he has, which isn't enough at-bats in the major's to warrant a track record. The Sox could end up keeping Burke on the big-league roster because he does have enough versatility to play another position (even if he's not a gold-glove 3B). We also could see Valdez kept to back-up middle infield, depending on what happens with the Iguchi signing.

Escobar would be hard-pressed to make the squad (IMO). We have multiple OFers in Rowand, Podsednik, Gload, Dye, Everett and Perez.

JUribe1989
01-05-2005, 04:49 PM
Escobar would be hard-pressed to make the squad (IMO). We have multiple OFers in Rowand, Podsednik, Gload, Dye, Everett and Perez.
Gload isn't an outfielder, or at least he shouldn't be. He's a great first basemen but every time he was in the outfield he was awful.

Ol' No. 2
01-05-2005, 04:56 PM
If Pierzynski can get signed then you would have a very interesting battle for the back-up catcher role. The Sox just gave Davis $1M so I don't see them releasing him, but that would give us 2 left-handed hitting catchers. It would be a nice luxury to have a right-handed hitting catcher too. At 33 Burke can't be expected to produce too much beyond what he has, which isn't enough at-bats in the major's to warrant a track record. The Sox could end up keeping Burke on the big-league roster because he does have enough versatility to play another position (even if he's not a gold-glove 3B). We also could see Valdez kept to back-up middle infield, depending on what happens with the Iguchi signing.

Escobar would be hard-pressed to make the squad (IMO). We have multiple OFers in Rowand, Podsednik, Gload, Dye, Everett and Perez.While it's possible the Sox will start 2005 with 3 catchers, I doubt it. It's one thing to carry 3 catchers when one of them is Sandy Alomar, but there just won't be enough work for 3 healthy catchers. If they sign AJ, I'd expect either Burke or Davis to be demoted or traded. Davis is a switch hitter (he sucks from both sides of the plate), so that could be a consideration. I don't know if either has any options left. More likely they'll trade the one they can get the most for.

And if Escobar finally performs up to his projections, they'll have to put him on the roster. How likely that is....

ARoman27
01-05-2005, 05:10 PM
Escobar starts performing like he is suppose to and I see Timo going bye-bye. But I think any show of success by Escobar will come after Thomas is already back. At that point in time you have Carl Everett splitting time with Jermaine Dye in RF and sitting on the bench.

bafiarocks03
01-05-2005, 06:00 PM
No!!! Cuz then Willie won't be the starting 2nd baseman! no! we have willie, we dont' need another 2nd baseman!

sullythered
01-05-2005, 06:03 PM
No!!! Cuz then Willie won't be the starting 2nd baseman! no! we have willie, we dont' need another 2nd baseman!


shouldn't that be in teal?

DiGiSyKo
01-05-2005, 06:07 PM
No!!! Cuz then Willie won't be the starting 2nd baseman! no! we have willie, we dont' need another 2nd baseman!wow... :rolling:

SoxxoS
01-05-2005, 06:38 PM
You would think Willie Harris was Ryne Sandburg by some replies in this thread.

doublem23
01-05-2005, 06:43 PM
You would think Willie Harris was Ryne Sandburg by some replies in this thread.
Only Ryne Sandberg?

konerko1413
01-05-2005, 06:49 PM
You would think Willie Harris was Ryne Sandburg by some replies in this thread.
i dont know if anyone thinks he is ryan sandberg (yet, hopefully) but he has proven himself defensivly and has shown spurts of hitting ability, everyone who has seen him should know he has the speed to steal 40+ bases

if he gains the confidence to start running and some sign of consistencey at the plate, he would be a more than qualified 2nd basemen (a big if)

konerko1413
01-05-2005, 07:08 PM
has anyone actually seen iguchi play or is everyone going by stats and reports?

he sounds like a bret boone with speed

Jjav829
01-05-2005, 07:19 PM
has anyone actually seen iguchi play or is everyone going by stats and reports?

he sounds like a bret boone with speed
Hopefully sans the steroids and annoying bat flip...

jabrch
01-05-2005, 07:21 PM
I saw him play 2 years ago when I spent a few weeks in Japan. He's not on roids, so the comparison to Boone isn't valid. :cool: He reminded me a lot of a much younger Roberto Alomar - capable of .300/20/20 fairly consistently. Add in the Japanese tendency to not strike out a ton, and to play fundamental D. I can't say how he'd adjust to MLB pitching, but he seems to have a decent game.

JUribe1989
01-05-2005, 07:21 PM
Boone is such an ass, I hate the way he flips his bat every time he homers. Other home run hitters don't do that. He's just a mini Sammy.

The_Cheesiest_Idiot
01-05-2005, 07:29 PM
i'm sorry but too many have bought into the white sox hype of willie harris. he's not that good. it's one thing to have the speed to steal 40 bases. it's another to ACTUALLY do it.

bafiarocks03
01-05-2005, 08:19 PM
shouldn't that be in teal?

no it definetly shouldn't!

NonetheLoaiza
01-05-2005, 08:25 PM
Well, we'll see what happens in a couple days hopefully. I for one, hope we get Iguchi. The worst that happens is it lights a fire under Willie to start performing.

zach074
01-05-2005, 08:57 PM
has anyone actually seen iguchi play or is everyone going by stats and reports?

he sounds like a bret boone with speed
Bret Boone with speed dosent sound to bad to me Shingo will have someone to talk to if we sign him too.

beckett21
01-05-2005, 08:57 PM
has anyone actually seen iguchi play or is everyone going by stats and reports?

he sounds like a bret boone with speed
I have seen Willie Harris play, and that has made me a great fan of Iguchi already. :cool:

:)

SpartanSoxFan
01-05-2005, 10:39 PM
Anyone have this guy's stats by chance? :?:

SleepySox
01-05-2005, 10:58 PM
I think I just heard on Fox News at 9 that the Sox are gonna sign him. I don't know since it was on in the background and I asked my brother. He said they did. If true, let me be the first to say that I'm quite excited.

WhiteSoxNation
01-05-2005, 11:03 PM
ur u messin w/ us? If not this is HUGE!

SleepySox
01-05-2005, 11:06 PM
ur u messin w/ us? If not this is HUGE!
If not, I apologize. He's 15, and he better not have just said it to spite me. I vaguely heard it and he confirmed....

WhiteSoxNation
01-05-2005, 11:11 PM
If not, I apologize. He's 15, and he better not have just said it to spite me. I vaguely heard it and he confirmed....
what did YOU here?

konerko1413
01-05-2005, 11:13 PM
ive check alot of sites and i havnt seen anything official about it, i hope its true but if they did i would think there would be something out there, im still lookin but havnt found anything, ill start a thread if i do see anything

SleepySox
01-05-2005, 11:13 PM
It was on Fox 32/12 news at 9 here in Chicago...

I vaguely heard it...Japanese 2nd baseman close to signing with Sox...

Also check this out, at the bottom:

http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/37824.htm

konerko1413
01-05-2005, 11:16 PM
I havnt seen anything about the sox officially signing Iguchi, i did see for the first time that the red sox have stated they will not try to get iguchi, but this could be to try and go under the radar, everything else i have seen so far is old news,

whenever anyone sees something new please post on this thread

beckett21
01-05-2005, 11:25 PM
Here's a link from that bastion of journalistic integrity, the New York Post.

From today's online edition:

http://newyorkpost.com/sports/yankees/37824.htm

Second baseman Tadahito Iguchi, whom the Yankees had some interest in signing, is close to reaching an agreement with the White Sox. That's all they have. FWIW.

EDIT: Same link posted in another thread already.

Whitesox029
01-05-2005, 11:42 PM
Here's a link from that bastion of journalistic integrity, the New York Post.

From today's online edition:

http://newyorkpost.com/sports/yankees/37824.htm

That's all they have. FWIW.

EDIT: Same link posted in another thread already. actually I think it's in two other threads already

beckett21
01-05-2005, 11:47 PM
actually I think it's in two other threads already
Yeah I'm usually pretty quick with these things. :tongue:

ChiWhiteSox1337
01-05-2005, 11:50 PM
I just wish someone else would report that the sox are close to signing Iguchi. I find it fishy that the NY Post has had it up all day yet guys such as Bruce Levine hasn't mentioned anything yet. I hope the Post isn't just rehashing what we've known for weeks already. :(:

JUribe1989
01-05-2005, 11:55 PM
I havnt seen anything about the sox officially signing Iguchi, i did see for the first time that the red sox have stated they will not try to get iguchi, but this could be to try and go under the radar, everything else i have seen so far is old news,

whenever anyone sees something new please post on this thread
Where did you see the Red Sox thing?

konerko1413
01-06-2005, 12:05 AM
Where did you see the Red Sox thing?it was on boston.com, go to sports, then baseball, then redsox, then the buzz, a section on iguchi is right under johnson, beltran, and milton

i couldnt send the site but heres what the part on iguchi says:

Last updated: 12/23
Sox plan to pass on Iguchi
http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/File-Based_Image_Resource/dingbat_pushpin_icon2.gif Discuss the buzz on Iguchi (http://boards.boston.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?webtag=bc-redsox&nav=messages&tid=1068&tsn=1)
During scouting meetings last week in San Diego, the Sox worked out Japanese shortstop Tadahito Iguchi -- who is a free agent eligible to sign with a major league club -- their interest predicated on whether he could also play second base. But the Sox, who on Monday traded outfielder Dave Roberts to the Padres for infielder Ramon Vazquez and righthanded-hitting outfielder Jay Payton, plan to pass on Iguchi, according to industry sources familiar with his talks with the team.

DickAllen72
01-06-2005, 12:11 AM
During scouting meetings last week in San Diego, the Sox worked out Japanese shortstop Tadahito Iguchi -- who is a free agent eligible to sign with a major league club -- their interest predicated on whether he could also play second base.

Sounds bass ackwards to me. :?:

konerko1413
01-06-2005, 12:14 AM
Sounds bass ackwards to me. :?:
sry i dont know what u ment by that
thats what i saw, i was looking further down in article

mdep524
01-06-2005, 12:41 AM
I just wish someone else would report that the sox are close to signing Iguchi. I find it fishy that the NY Post has had it up all day yet guys such as Bruce Levine hasn't mentioned anything yet. I hope the Post isn't just rehashing what we've known for weeks already. :(:
I agree, it is dubious that local media has no coverage of this story. Part of it might be that it just hasn't happened. But another part of it could be the Trib, Sun Times, etc. just don't care enough about the Sox to give them speculation coverage (but are willing to talk at length about non-fact-based rumors about Beltran and Magglio to the Cubs). If it were the Cubs that had interest in Pierzynski and Iguchi, I'd wager we'd see significantly more daily coverage and updates.

StockdaleForVeep
01-06-2005, 01:12 AM
I found this at BostonDirtDogs.com earlier this week. It's fairly old news but I don't think I saw anyone make mention of the White Sox making an offer to Japanese second basemen (I've also read he's a shortstop) Tadahito Iguchi.


I'll settle for Alex Cora. Joey needs to recruit his little brother.


http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Newsweek/Photos/Web_Exclusives/040119_040126/040123_SundanceNapoleon_wide.hmedium.jpg
"Yeeeessss"

slavko
01-06-2005, 01:43 AM
Willie is not Sandberg. Willie (as said earlier) is getting the same treatment Rowand did before they were forced to play him. Many posters here prefer anybody else's bozos to our own bozos. Give Willie a shred of the same chance everyone is willing to give Joe Crede. Let him play and sink or swim. I've seen enough of him to think he deserves the chance.

Mohoney
01-06-2005, 02:15 AM
Give Willie a shred of the same chance everyone is willing to give Joe Crede.
Couldn't agree more. That's why I want a guy that can play both 2B and SS. If Willie shows more than Crede, then maybe Crede should be the one playing twice a week with Uribe manning 3B.

NOBODY'S defense can justify Crede's horrible offense. His AVG under .240 and his OBP under .300 simply needs to be either improved upon or purged from our lineup and replaced by somebody else.

batmanZoSo
01-06-2005, 02:19 AM
Anyone have this guy's stats by chance? :?:
I became interested myself and found them pretty easily, here. (http://www.japanesebaseball.com/players/player.jsp?PlayerID=970)

Batted .333 and .340 the last two years. 44 and 18 steals also. No power whatsoever, but he must be pretty fast at least. .438 and .394 on-base the last two years. It really looks like he came into his own lately. I think this would be a great move.

TaylorStSox
01-06-2005, 03:37 AM
I'm one of the few that still like Harris. He has the potential to hit in the high .200's. He seems to see the ball well (his swing may look overmatched against hard throwers but he sees the ball into the glove well) and takes walks. He can lay down a bunt. He has good range at 2nd with an adequate arm to turn the double play. If he ever finds confidence, he can steal a ton of bases.

IMO, we have the luxury to see Harris play everyday. Our pitching staff is set for a couple years. We have somewhat of an offensive core locked for a couple years (I don't see Thomas leaving. Plus, I believe PK will be extended.) This gives us the oppurtunity to see how this core works before we make a strong push in '06. I, for one, am being patient.

EvilJester99
01-06-2005, 08:11 AM
This doesn't sound promising...from JapanBall.com

TOKYO, Jan. 6 (19:04) Kyodo
*
Japanese infielder Tadahito Iguchi, who has drawn interest from
several major league clubs, and the Chicago White Sox have hit a snag
in their negotiations, sources close to him said Thursday.
Both sides have failed to narrow the differences over financial
terms after the White Sox offered a two-year, $4 million (about 420
million yen) deal and demanded an early response.
A person familiar with the talks indicated that Iguchi's side
hopes for a deal that at least matches his contract with the Daiei
Hawks carrying an annual salary of 240 million yen for 2004.
''The White Sox say they can't wait any more but we can't give
them an answer for the offer that we've got,'' he said.
The White Sox are reportedly one of five major league clubs
interested in acquiring the services of Iguchi, including the New
York Yankees and Boston Red Sox.
In his eight-year career with the Hawks, Iguchi, known for his
clutch hitting, hit .271 with 149 homers, 507 RBIs and 159 stolen
bases in 894 games. He won the Pacific League stolen base title in
2001 and 2003 and is also a four-time All-Star.
He made himself available for talks with major league teams
after Daiei accepted his request for unconditional release. *

samram
01-06-2005, 08:25 AM
This doesn't sound promising...from JapanBall.com

TOKYO, Jan. 6 (19:04) Kyodo
*
Japanese infielder Tadahito Iguchi, who has drawn interest from
several major league clubs, and the Chicago White Sox have hit a snag
in their negotiations, sources close to him said Thursday.
Both sides have failed to narrow the differences over financial
terms after the White Sox offered a two-year, $4 million (about 420
million yen) deal and demanded an early response.
A person familiar with the talks indicated that Iguchi's side
hopes for a deal that at least matches his contract with the Daiei
Hawks carrying an annual salary of 240 million yen for 2004.
''The White Sox say they can't wait any more but we can't give
them an answer for the offer that we've got,'' he said.
*
Well, they could say "no." That would be easy enough, but maybe the Sox are his first choice, I don't know. Also, assuming even payouts over the two years, there's about a 30 million yen difference, or about $285,000, annually. If the Sox were thinking he were the last piece, I think they could move to cover that ground a little bit, but maybe there are other moves they are contemplating.

johnny_mostil
01-06-2005, 08:26 AM
Couldn't agree more. That's why I want a guy that can play both 2B and SS. If Willie shows more than Crede, then maybe Crede should be the one playing twice a week with Uribe manning 3B.

NOBODY'S defense can justify Crede's horrible offense. His AVG under .240 and his OBP under .300 simply needs to be either improved upon or purged from our lineup and replaced by somebody else.
Uribe doesn't hit well enough to play third regularly, so it's not a solution. A good offensive shortstop is usually a terrible offensive third baseman because there are ten times as many guys who can handle third base. Why play your best defensive player at third base? It's a waste of talent. And Uribe being the best defensive player on the Sox is not a comment on the White Sox, it's a comment on Uribe. He was considered one of the top defensive SSs in the NL two years ago.

Crede keeps getting a chance because he showed signs that he could really hit in the minor leagues, much more than Willie. My own opinion is that Crede was left in the minors for two extra years because Kenny Williams is too worried about "rushing" players due to his own experience. Kenny just had to experiment with Royce Clayton and, as a result, Crede picked up some bad habits -- like trying to yank low forkballs -- because he figured he had to light up the scoreboard to get the heck out of the Deep South. The White Sox brass weren't impressed then by even modestly elevated walk totals, they were impressed by ding-dong-your-momma bleacher-clearing bombs. Two years in AAA when the White Sox had nobody good playing third while Crede stewed had to have affected his approach. I think you give him one more half-season to get straightened out. He might hit .280 with some power. By then, who knows, maybe Josh Fields has mastered hitting with wood? He sure looked like he was adjusting fast last year.

34 Inch Stick
01-06-2005, 09:46 AM
Well, they could say "no." That would be easy enough, but maybe the Sox are his first choice, I don't know. Also, assuming even payouts over the two years, there's about a 30 million yen difference, or about $285,000, annually. If the Sox were thinking he were the last piece, I think they could move to cover that ground a little bit, but maybe there are other moves they are contemplating.
I was just working the numbers as well. $285,000 does not sound like an insurmountable obstacle. On the other hand it is close to 15% on a 2 million contract. At this point I think it is just KW not wanting to negotiate against himself. It does not seem like any other team is offering him money and he has already cut ties with the Japanese league. Since KW has at least one other second baseman who he could probably get for less than the 2 million, I think he will hold the line here. Iguichi will then sign by January 21.

ARoman27
01-06-2005, 10:35 AM
I saw him play 2 years ago when I spent a few weeks in Japan. He's not on roids, so the comparison to Boone isn't valid. :cool: He reminded me a lot of a much younger Roberto Alomar - capable of .300/20/20 fairly consistently. Add in the Japanese tendency to not strike out a ton, and to play fundamental D. I can't say how he'd adjust to MLB pitching, but he seems to have a decent game.
I don't know if we could compare Iguchi to a "much younger Roberto Alomar"? First off Iguchi is 30 years old, second of all I believe he's only won one Gold Glove Award in Japan. Iguchi would most likely encounter a difficult transition to major league baseball, much like Kaz Matsui experienced in New York last year because Iguchi has predominantly played on artificial turf. There's a common perception that Japanese players are slap hitters, single hitters of the Ichiro mold, where as Iguchi developed into more of a power hitter over the last couple of years in turn sacrificing strikeout totals. I think he has neared a 100 strikeouts a year.

SoxxoS
01-06-2005, 10:39 AM
At this point I think it is just KW not wanting to negotiate against himself
:KW
"I'll play hardball if you want, Kenny."

:KW
"OK. 14 million over two years, plus all you can eat Benihana for Iguchi."

:KW
"Done.

:KW
"Sucker."

IlliniSox
01-06-2005, 10:39 AM
Not sure if this belongs in the monster Iguchi threat, but I found this on Yahoo-Asia:

Thursday January 6, 6:08 PM
Baseball: Iguchi, White Sox wide apart in talks

(Kyodo) _ Japanese infielder Tadahito Iguchi, who has drawn interest from several major league clubs, and the Chicago White Sox have hit a snag in their negotiations, sources close to him said Thursday.

Both sides have failed to narrow the differences over financial terms after the White Sox offered a two-year, $4 million (about 420 million yen) deal and demanded an early response.

A person familiar with the talks indicated that Iguchi's side hopes for a deal that at least matches his contract with the Daiei Hawks carrying an annual salary of 240 million yen for 2004.

"The White Sox say they can't wait any more but we can't give them an answer for the offer that we've got," he said.

The White Sox are reportedly one of five major league clubs interested in acquiring the services of Iguchi, including the New York Yankees and Boston Red Sox.

In his eight-year career with the Hawks, Iguchi, known for his clutch hitting, hit .271 with 149 homers, 507 RBIs and 159 stolen bases in 894 games. He won the Pacific League stolen base title in 2001 and 2003 and is also a four-time All-Star. He made himself available for talks with major league teams after Daiei accepted his request for unconditional release.

Flight #24
01-06-2005, 10:48 AM
Not sure if this belongs in the monster Iguchi threat, but I found this on Yahoo-Asia:

Thursday January 6, 6:08 PM
Baseball: Iguchi, White Sox wide apart in talks

(Kyodo) _ Japanese infielder Tadahito Iguchi, who has drawn interest from several major league clubs, and the Chicago White Sox have hit a snag in their negotiations, sources close to him said Thursday.

Both sides have failed to narrow the differences over financial terms after the White Sox offered a two-year, $4 million (about 420 million yen) deal and demanded an early response.

A person familiar with the talks indicated that Iguchi's side hopes for a deal that at least matches his contract with the Daiei Hawks carrying an annual salary of 240 million yen for 2004.

"The White Sox say they can't wait any more but we can't give them an answer for the offer that we've got," he said.

The White Sox are reportedly one of five major league clubs interested in acquiring the services of Iguchi, including the New York Yankees and Boston Red Sox.

In his eight-year career with the Hawks, Iguchi, known for his clutch hitting, hit .271 with 149 homers, 507 RBIs and 159 stolen bases in 894 games. He won the Pacific League stolen base title in 2001 and 2003 and is also a four-time All-Star. He made himself available for talks with major league teams after Daiei accepted his request for unconditional release.
If true, using the implied exchange rate from the article, the additional 60mil yen = about $500k, or $250k/yr.

I certainly hope that that's not the sticking point, unless they really think they need that $$$ to get AJP and have him rated as a higher need. The article seems to have some notes that are older (i.e. aren't BoSox out of the bidding after their Vazquez deal?). I'd like to think that if he wants to play in MLB and the Sox want him - they'd find a way to bridge a gap of $250k/yr.

HomeFish
01-06-2005, 10:52 AM
Yep, his Japanese salary comes out to 2.284 million, so its about 250k a year that he wants.

Incredible that it's a sticking point.

IlliniSox
01-06-2005, 10:53 AM
If true, using the implied exchange rate from the article, the additional 60mil yen = about $500k, or $250k/yr.My thoughts exactly, I'll volunteer to pay the quarter extra a beer to pick up the difference.

ARoman27
01-06-2005, 10:54 AM
If the math was done, doesn't the current White Sox roster (as it stands today) reach about $65M in payroll. If Reinsdorf was serious about stretching the payroll to $72M then I would think we have $7M to play with and signing Iguchi to a 2-year/$5M and AJ to either a 1-year/$3M or a 3-year/$10-$12M. This would seem to get it done, plus satisfy Iguchi's need to make more money this year.

samram
01-06-2005, 10:55 AM
Yep, his Japanese salary comes out to 2.284 million, so its about 250k a year that he wants.

Incredible that it's a sticking point.
Yeah, but as has been discussed in the other Iguchi thread, if no one else is bidding, why increase the offer?

Flight #24
01-06-2005, 10:56 AM
If the math was done, doesn't the current White Sox roster (as it stands today) reach about $65M in payroll. If Reinsdorf was serious about stretching the payroll to $72M then I would think we have $7M to play with and signing Iguchi to a 2-year/$5M and AJ to either a 1-year/$3M or a 3-year/$10-$12M. This would seem to get it done, plus satisfy Iguchi's need to make more money this year.Weren't they at 70, then saved 6mil in the Lee-Pods trade, then added 4.5 via El Duque? That would put the total at 68.5 and lend some credence to their attempts to sign Iguchi for 2mil & AJP for 3mil and a total payroll of 73mil.

Edit: On a side note - Maybe one of the mods can merge the Iguchi threads?

OG4LIFE
01-06-2005, 10:57 AM
i hate so sound negative, but if this is true, does it really suprise anyone that we're too cheap/poor to pay what it takes to get a deal done?

OG4LIFE
01-06-2005, 11:02 AM
Yeah, but as has been discussed in the other Iguchi thread, if no one else is bidding, why increase the offer?
JR would love you. The reason is, we may be the only bidders today (and by all reports, we're not), and, like with any business, if you want to get and keep quality employees, you generally pay a little more. otherwise you end up with a willie harris- someone who is only good at their job part time (against righties).

humansushi
01-06-2005, 11:05 AM
My thoughts exactly, I'll volunteer to pay the quarter extra a beer to pick up the difference.
Bite your tongue!!!:smile:

samram
01-06-2005, 11:06 AM
JR would love you. The reason is, we may be the only bidders today (and by all reports, we're not), and, like with any business, if you want to get and keep quality employees, you generally pay a little more. otherwise you end up with a willie harris- someone who is only good at their job part time (against righties).
Well, you changed the whole scenario. If there are other bidders and the team wants him, then they should increase their offer.

voodoochile
01-06-2005, 11:06 AM
JR would love you. The reason is, we may be the only bidders today (and by all reports, we're not), and, like with any business, if you want to get and keep quality employees, you generally pay a little more. otherwise you end up with a willie harris- someone who is only good at their job part time (against righties).
The Sox may be the only MLB team bidding, but according to that article his current team in Japan is paying him $250K/year more than that. Why would he leave his home, his culture and his friends/family for less money?

Appreciation is spelled M-O-N-E-Y (as is respect...)

Flight #24
01-06-2005, 11:10 AM
The Sox may be the only MLB team bidding, but according to that article his current team in Japan is paying him $250K/year more than that. Why would he leave his home, his culture and his friends/family for less money?

Appreciation is spelled M-O-N-E-Y (as is respect...)
Make that WAS paying him, if I read the article correctly, he's already been granted his unconditional release. So he's an FA without a job right now. I guess the real question he's got to ask himself is what he could get for a team now if he returned to Japan?

Rocky Soprano
01-06-2005, 11:11 AM
Appreciation is spelled M-O-N-E-Y (as is respect...)
:maggs

"Exactly!"

samram
01-06-2005, 11:13 AM
Make that WAS paying him, if I read the article correctly, he's already been granted his unconditional release. So he's an FA without a job right now. I guess the real question he's got to ask himself is what he could get for a team now if he returned to Japan?
That's correct. He was released from his contract. http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getsp.pl5?sb20041104a2.htm

voodoochile
01-06-2005, 11:15 AM
That's correct. He was released from his contract. http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getsp.pl5?sb20041104a2.htm
whoops... more coffee for voodoo...:D:

Still, you have to wonder about the mindset of a team that will lowball a guy by this much money. If I am Iguchi, I would feel put off.

Sox offer a contract for less money than he was making to make a huge change in his life and then tell him to hurry up and sign it.

How would anyone feel under those circumstances? Would you feel appreciated? Would you feel wanted? Or, would you feel taken advantage of?:?:

jabrch
01-06-2005, 11:16 AM
My thoughts exactly, I'll volunteer to pay the quarter extra a beer to pick up the difference.
:reinsy
"Your wish is granted...$6.75 for a beer! That doesn't mean I'm signing anyone, but you will now pay an extra quarter per beer."

voodoochile
01-06-2005, 11:19 AM
:reinsy
"Your wish is granted...$6.75 for a beer! That doesn't mean I'm signing anyone, but you will now pay an extra quarter per beer."
It's like some bad twilight zone episode where I get granted the right to be imortal - living life inside a cage buried inside an unknown cave with no light or fresh air...

Flight #24
01-06-2005, 11:20 AM
whoops... more coffee for voodoo...:D:

Still, you have to wonder about the mindset of a team that will lowball a guy by this much money. If I am Iguchi, I would feel put off.

Sox offer a contract for less money than he was making to make a huge change in his life and then tell him to hurry up and sign it.

How would anyone feel under those circumstances? Would you feel appreciated? Would you feel wanted? Or, would you feel taken advantage of?:?:
What we dont' know is whether they really think that he's a 1-1.5mil/yr player and are already factoring that type of bump in to make a change. The fact that his japanese team was fairly open to releasing him makes me wonder if they thought 2.25mil was what he was worth. Lots of guys end up taking paycuts when their contracts are up.

But if they really want him, I'd say just shell out the .5mil/2yrs. I'd like to think that it would help improve their japanese popularity and have some attendance/revenue impact

voodoochile
01-06-2005, 11:23 AM
What we dont' know is whether they really think that he's a 1-1.5mil/yr player and are already factoring that type of bump in to make a change. The fact that his japanese team was fairly open to releasing him makes me wonder if they thought 2.25mil was what he was worth. Lots of guys end up taking paycuts when their contracts are up.

But if they really want him, I'd say just shell out the .5mil/2yrs. I'd like to think that it would help improve their japanese popularity and have some attendance/revenue impact
An excellent point. PR/Marketing needs to be considered. Will Iguchi cause the Sox to sell more merchandise in Japan? Will he lead to more Japanese Americans coming to Soxpark? Will more Japanese tourists come to Soxpark?

Chicago is an International city or destination. The Sox need to market to those clientele when possibile

southsideirish71
01-06-2005, 11:27 AM
Lots of guys end up taking paycuts when their contracts are up.

Yeah but lots of people also aren't asked to take paycuts and move halfway around the world into a country that doesnt speak your language. If you have a chance to take a paycut and stay home or take a paycut and move to a new country unless you are for adventure and travel you stay home.

anewman35
01-06-2005, 11:30 AM
Yeah but lots of people also aren't asked to take paycuts and move halfway around the world into a country that doesnt speak your language. If you have a chance to take a paycut and stay home or take a paycut and move to a new country unless you are for adventure and travel you stay home.
Nobody forced him to try to sign in MLB. He must want to do it, and if he does, I don't see why money would be such a hufe issue.

Flight #24
01-06-2005, 11:31 AM
Yeah but lots of people also aren't asked to take paycuts and move halfway around the world into a country that doesnt speak your language. If you have a chance to take a paycut and stay home or take a paycut and move to a new country unless you are for adventure and travel you stay home.
The missing piece of the equation is what he'd make in Japan. I have no idea, maybe it's 1.5mil and the Sox are offering 2. Maybe it's 2.25mil. I'd only guess that since his team released him he wouldn't make MORE than 2.25mil.

And the primary reason for moving isn't adventure, it's proving yourself at the highest level of your sport, as well as giving yourself the opportunity to make more $$$ down the line. If he comes here and posts OBPs anywhere close to the .400 level he's been around the past 2 years (IIRC, that's what I saw in the other thread), he'll make alot more than 2mil when his contract's up.

samram
01-06-2005, 11:33 AM
whoops... more coffee for voodoo...:D:

Still, you have to wonder about the mindset of a team that will lowball a guy by this much money. If I am Iguchi, I would feel put off.

Sox offer a contract for less money than he was making to make a huge change in his life and then tell him to hurry up and sign it.

How would anyone feel under those circumstances? Would you feel appreciated? Would you feel wanted? Or, would you feel taken advantage of?:?:
Well, the problem is he decided he wanted to play in the States, and he apparently overestimated his value. If I were him, I would be questioning my advisors and agent. I don't think the Sox lured him out of his contract with promises of more and then lowballed him. If that were the case, then I would feel taken advantage of. However, if I were JR, and I thought the guy could help the team, I would be willing to bridge a gap of that size to have a happy employee.

kittle42
01-06-2005, 11:38 AM
Nobody forced him to try to sign in MLB. He must want to do it, and if he does, I don't see why money would be such a hufe issue.
C'mon. Money is a huge issue with anything.

Jjav829
01-06-2005, 11:41 AM
Make that WAS paying him, if I read the article correctly, he's already been granted his unconditional release. So he's an FA without a job right now. I guess the real question he's got to ask himself is what he could get for a team now if he returned to Japan?Tony freaking Batista got $15 million (that's not a typo, $15 million) over 2 years from Iguchi's former team. I'm sure Iguchi could probably make at least what the Sox are offering him now and in the comfort of his native country. Unless the guy desperately wants to come to the U.S., and there have been no reports to confirm that, the Sox are going to have to up their offer. It's a shame to think we might lose out on this guy because of 250K. The PR hit the Sox would take from missing out on him makes it worth dishing out the extra quarter million.

voodoochile
01-06-2005, 11:44 AM
Well, the problem is he decided he wanted to play in the States, and he apparently overestimated his value. If I were him, I would be questioning my advisors and agent. I don't think the Sox lured him out of his contract with promises of more and then lowballed him. If that were the case, then I would feel taken advantage of. However, if I were JR, and I thought the guy could help the team, I would be willing to bridge a gap of that size to have a happy employee.
Sorry, if I was confusing...

I don't think the Sox lured him out under false pretenses. I do think that was his decision, but now with so much on the line, the Sox are arguing over a seemingly small amount of money (in pro sports terms) and telling him to hurry up and take the money.

When someone is giving you the bumrush and you aren't happy with the offer, it makes you hesitate and evaluate their motives.

anewman35
01-06-2005, 11:48 AM
C'mon. Money is a huge issue with anything.
Maybe, maybe not (and for the record, I think we should give him his money, but that's besides the point). Isn't it possible that some star in Japan could decide to take less money to come to the US, just because they want to see how they compete? I don't have numbers in front of me, but isn't that exactly what many Japanese MLB players have done?

samram
01-06-2005, 11:49 AM
Sorry, if I was confusing...

I don't think the Sox lured him out under false pretenses. I do think that was his decision, but now with so much on the line, the Sox are arguing over a seemingly small amount of money (in pro sports terms) and telling him to hurry up and take the money.

When someone is giving you the bumrush and you aren't happy with the offer, it makes you hesitate and evaluate their motives.
Yeah, I can see what you're saying, and that's why I said if I were JR, I would try to bridge the gap. I was looking at the situation from a strictly negotiational point of view, which we all know is the lens through which JR view this.

voodoochile
01-06-2005, 11:53 AM
Maybe, maybe not (and for the record, I think we should give him his money, but that's besides the point). Isn't it possible that some star in Japan could decide to take less money to come to the US, just because they want to see how they compete? I don't have numbers in front of me, but isn't that exactly what many Japanese MLB players have done?
Sure... it's possible...

I guess I don't see the point here. It's always possible and that still might be the case here even if the Sox up their offer, but obviously for Iguchi, that moment isn't here yet. He may get there eventually, but by then the Sox may no longer have the offer on the table or someone else may have offered more.

Mohoney
01-06-2005, 11:58 AM
Yep, his Japanese salary comes out to 2.284 million, so its about 250k a year that he wants.

Incredible that it's a sticking point.
How much would this break down to for each investor? Less than $10,000 each?

ARoman27
01-06-2005, 12:01 PM
Iguchi finally got his release from the Hawks after the '04 season. He had also asked for his release from the Hawks after both the '02 and '03 seasons and the Hawks GM didn't grant him his wish.

When the Mets went after Kaz Matsui last year Iguchi was hoping to be on the market as well.

Iguchi is going to play in the major's next year, it's just a matter of with what team.

A. Cavatica
01-06-2005, 12:03 PM
Sure... it's possible...

I guess I don't see the point here. It's always possible and that still might be the case here even if the Sox up their offer, but obviously for Iguchi, that moment isn't here yet. He may get there eventually, but by then the Sox may no longer have the offer on the table or someone else may have offered more.
People just want to bitch about the Sox being cheap, which is sometimes justified, but certainly not while a negotiation is still in progress.

anewman35
01-06-2005, 12:07 PM
People just want to bitch about the Sox being cheap, which is sometimes justified, but certainly not while a negotiation is still in progress.
The Sox should ALWAYS give everybody exactly what they ask for, otherwise they are being cheap. In fact, they should give even more than the person asked for, just so everybody can see how generous they are.

chaz171
01-06-2005, 12:15 PM
The Sox have been awfully quiet in the last week....The moves they made for pitching and defense will go for naught if they don't shore up the 2 biggest up the middle holes in this roster. It seems like chump change in today's economy to pony up for AJ and Iguchi

samram
01-06-2005, 12:19 PM
The Sox should ALWAYS give everybody exactly what they ask for, otherwise they are being cheap. In fact, they should give even more than the person asked for, just so everybody can see how generous they are.
And pay the entire contract value up front, none of this "year-by-year" stuff.

Mohoney
01-06-2005, 12:27 PM
Uribe doesn't hit well enough to play third regularly, so it's not a solution.
Well, apparently Crede doesn't, either. I'm talking about Uribe for this season, and signing a stopgap next offseason to play for a few years until Fields is ready.

If Crede sucks again, and we continue to run him out there all season without even giving a thought to replacing him, odds are that we won't win this division.

If you're using this as a rebuilding season, then by all means play Crede. However, if you're serious about contending, you don't play a guy every day if he's batting .239 with a .299 OBP.

Don't get me wrong, I hope the guy rebounds and has a solid season. I hope Willie has a solid season. I'm just saying that there needs to be a contingency plan in case these guys aren't producing, and it needs to be finalized before the season starts. If we don't sign a Taguchi or Cora, and have to trade for one later, we'll be paying for it with talent in addition to money.

voodoochile
01-06-2005, 12:28 PM
People just want to bitch about the Sox being cheap, which is sometimes justified, but certainly not while a negotiation is still in progress.
Tell it to the people who reported the story, not the people who are reacting to it.

duke of dorwood
01-06-2005, 12:37 PM
My thoughts exactly, I'll volunteer to pay the quarter extra a beer to pick up the difference.
Why-they got plenty of $ --They'd rather create bad will with him and any other player from there that may be of help later.

Can ANYONE be bigger jags than this organization?

soxtalker
01-06-2005, 12:39 PM
The Sox have been awfully quiet in the last week....The moves they made for pitching and defense will go for naught if they don't shore up the 2 biggest up the middle holes in this roster. It seems like chump change in today's economy to pony up for AJ and Iguchi KW is almost always quiet. Every so often there is an exception, but his general rule is to "fly under the radar". While I'd like to know what is going on, I can't see how the media can help the situation from the Sox perspective. So, the report from the Japanese media is interesting, but I'm not sure how useful the information is in gaging what our chances of signing him are.

jabrch
01-06-2005, 12:45 PM
Tell it to the people who reported the story, not the people who are reacting to it.
I gotta wonder if there is more to the story than we are hearing.

I'm not going to throw myself off a bridge over Iguchi either way - get him or not.

FireReinsdorf
01-06-2005, 12:51 PM
This could all be fixed by a stronger dollar.

I wonder which team Greenspan roots for?

pudge
01-06-2005, 01:24 PM
I wonder if anyone is considering the bonus of the Sox becoming a popular team within Japan. With two Japanese players filling MAJOR roles on our team, I'd think that might help sell some Sox hats and increase the team's overall fan base. Cripes, give him the extra $250,000.

batmanZoSo
01-06-2005, 01:40 PM
Tony freaking Batista got $15 million (that's not a typo, $15 million) over 2 years from Iguchi's former team. I'm sure Iguchi could probably make at least what the Sox are offering him now and in the comfort of his native country. Unless the guy desperately wants to come to the U.S., and there have been no reports to confirm that, the Sox are going to have to up their offer. It's a shame to think we might lose out on this guy because of 250K. The PR hit the Sox would take from missing out on him makes it worth dishing out the extra quarter million.
:reinsy
Yeah, but I can't see the forest for the trees. Or something.

duke of dorwood
01-06-2005, 01:51 PM
:reinsy

250,000.00 ?

And how do I tell one of my kids they dont get a new Mercedes this year?

WhiteSoxFan84
01-06-2005, 01:53 PM
A person familiar with the talks indicated that Iguchi's side hopes for a deal that at least matches his contract with the Daiei Hawks carrying an annual salary of 240 million yen for 2004.
Are you kidding me? They didn't even match his Japanese contract? WoW, White Sox Baseball; Hitting New Lows Every Offseason.

That's like the Miami Dolphins going to LSU and offering Nick Saban a 5 year, $5,000,000 ($1 mill per) contract while he's making $2.5 mill per at LSU.

What a joke.

WhiteSoxFan84
01-06-2005, 01:54 PM
:reinsy

250,000.00 ?

And how do I tell one of my kids they dont get a new Mercedes this year?In Spanish. Hopefully they don't understand.

maurice
01-06-2005, 01:58 PM
Crede
AAA - .292 / .353 / .511 / 2
AA - .286 / .356 / .439 / 5
A - .295 / .358 / .450 / 12

Harris
AAA - .304 / .374 / .450 / 41
AA - .305 / .364 / .423 / 54
A - .271 / .366 / .391 / 55

34 Inch Stick
01-06-2005, 02:05 PM
I think everyone is looking at this the wrong way. The Sox ARE the highest bidder. Iguichi has made it clear that he is willing to go to the person offering the most money. It is also pretty clear that the Sox are the most likely option, as his agent continues to speak with the Sox even though he does not like the number.

He has stated a clear intention to play in the US, so I don't think the Japanese option is available to him either (for ego sake and because the teams may be angry with him).

Furthermore, it is in the range of acceptable offers for veteran second basemen with MLB experience. How many 2B have we seen sign this year for between 2-3 million. We are talking about productive every day players.

Finally the Sox have the Cora option at a lower price if they lose Iguichi. They have no reason to jump at a player.

As of today the Sox are really the only game in town. Why in the world would they move from their position. The Sox upping the offer would be analagous to what the Rangers did when bidding for ARod.

I am confident KW will get his man. It may take a little while until Iguichi realizes this is a fair offer but eventually he will.

WhiteSoxFan84
01-06-2005, 02:12 PM
I think everyone is looking at this the wrong way. The Sox ARE the highest bidder. Iguichi has made it clear that he is willing to go to the person offering the most money. It is also pretty clear that the Sox are the most likely option, as his agent continues to speak with the Sox even though he does not like the number.

He has stated a clear intention to play in the US, so I don't think the Japanese option is available to him either (for ego sake and because the teams may be angry with him).

Furthermore, it is in the range of acceptable offers for veteran second basemen with MLB experience. How many 2B have we seen sign this year for between 2-3 million. We are talking about productive every day players.

Finally the Sox have the Cora option at a lower price if they lose Iguichi. They have no reason to jump at a player.

As of today the Sox are really the only game in town. Why in the world would they move from their position. The Sox upping the offer would be analagous to what the Rangers did when bidding for ARod.

I am confident KW will get his man. It may take a little while until Iguichi realizes this is a fair offer but eventually he will.
I understand what you're saying and agree with most of it. Why would you want to bid against yourself?

BUT, why risk the chance of a team coming in "under the radar", and giving him exactly what he wants. Also, if KW and the Sox mean what they say (about getting a deal done before the end of this week), why don't they give him the extra $250,000 and get another hole filled.

Look at Matt Mantei and the Cubs. He CALLS the Cubs, tells them he wants to pitch for them for the minimum ($312,000), Jim Hendry tells him they'll think about it and out of nowhere the Red Sox come in and sign him.

I really don't know much about this guy, but he's probably worth a little more than Tony Womack (making $2 mill per).

Joel Perez
01-06-2005, 02:16 PM
In Spanish. Hopefully they don't understand.En espanol:

Cabritos, usted no está consiguiendo ese Mercedes nuevo que le prometí porque necesitamos agregar $250K más a mi nómina de pago.

anewman35
01-06-2005, 02:25 PM
Are you kidding me? They didn't even match his Japanese contract? WoW, White Sox Baseball; Hitting New Lows Every Offseason.

That's like the Miami Dolphins going to LSU and offering Nick Saban a 5 year, $5,000,000 ($1 mill per) contract while he's making $2.5 mill per at LSU.

What a joke.
The thing you're not realizing is, not everything is about money for all people. Sometimes, people just want to try something else. To use a football example, a few years ago, when Steve Spurrier left Florida for the Redskins, he certianly didn't do it for the money. I don't know what the money was, but I'm sure he could have made all the money he wanted at some college or another. But he wanted to try the NFL, so he did. Or another example - let's say the Yankees had this really great triple A manager they paid $5 million a year, because they're the Yankees and they can. A major league team offers the guy $1 million a year. Now, I'm not saying everybody would take that, but I'm sure a lot of people would.

The White Sox made an offer. Nobody is making him take anything. If he doesn't like it, and the Sox won't go higher, and nobody else will go higher, either, he's free to sit at home and make no money at all.

anewman35
01-06-2005, 02:26 PM
Look at Matt Mantei and the Cubs. He CALLS the Cubs, tells them he wants to pitch for them for the minimum ($312,000), Jim Hendry tells him they'll think about it and out of nowhere the Red Sox come in and sign him.
If he said that to the Cubs, but then went and signed with the Red Sox anyway before knowing what the Cubs were going to do, I guess he didn't really want the Cubs that badly, eh?

WhiteSoxFan84
01-06-2005, 02:47 PM
If he said that to the Cubs, but then went and signed with the Red Sox anyway before knowing what the Cubs were going to do, I guess he didn't really want the Cubs that badly, eh?
Here's an example;

You call a girl and ask her out for dinner. She says she'll call you back with an answer soon. It's been 3 hours and she hasn't called back. Another girl calls you and wants to go out to dinner, would you tell her, "I'm waiting for another girl to return my call, sorry", or would you take the 2nd girl's offer? If you would wait for the first girl, you're a tool.

WhiteSoxFan84
01-06-2005, 02:48 PM
The thing you're not realizing is, not everything is about money for all people. Sometimes, people just want to try something else. To use a football example, a few years ago, when Steve Spurrier left Florida for the Redskins, he certianly didn't do it for the money. I don't know what the money was, but I'm sure he could have made all the money he wanted at some college or another. But he wanted to try the NFL, so he did. Or another example - let's say the Yankees had this really great triple A manager they paid $5 million a year, because they're the Yankees and they can. A major league team offers the guy $1 million a year. Now, I'm not saying everybody would take that, but I'm sure a lot of people would.

The White Sox made an offer. Nobody is making him take anything. If he doesn't like it, and the Sox won't go higher, and nobody else will go higher, either, he's free to sit at home and make no money at all.
Wasn't Spurrier making like $3 mill per w/ the Skins? I do agree with you that sometimes people do things just because it's their passion and not because it pays the best. But if Iguchi's passion is to play in the MLB, why is $250,000 the holding point? Maybe to some, or to most, money is close to everything.

A. Cavatica
01-06-2005, 02:52 PM
Crede
AAA - .292 / .353 / .511 / 2
AA - .286 / .356 / .439 / 5
A - .295 / .358 / .450 / 12

Harris
AAA - .304 / .374 / .450 / 41
AA - .305 / .364 / .423 / 54
A - .271 / .366 / .391 / 55
Crede's shown some slugging potential but hasn't come close to a .350 OBP in the majors. He doesn't make enough contact and he doesn't leg out any hits. His walk rate should improve with experience, though.

If Harris could hit .271/.366/.391 with no stolen bases I'd be satisfied. But his slugging percentage last year was inexcusable.

Frater Perdurabo
01-06-2005, 02:59 PM
You call a girl and ask her out for dinner. She says she'll call you back with an answer soon. It's been 3 hours and she hasn't called back. Another girl calls you and wants to go out to dinner, would you tell her, "I'm waiting for another girl to return my call, sorry", or would you take the 2nd girl's offer? If you would wait for the first girl, you're a tool.

Depends on if the second girl was attractive or ugly, or how many beers one had had.

:redneck :gulp:

As for me, I wouldn't be in that predicament since I'm married. :redface:

DaveIsHere
01-06-2005, 03:18 PM
Depends on if the second girl was attractive or ugly, or how many beers one had had.

:redneck :gulp:

As for me, I wouldn't be in that predicament since I'm married. :redface:
Read my sig:D:

fquaye149
01-06-2005, 03:30 PM
:maggs

"Exactly!"

*****

RichFitztightly
01-06-2005, 03:33 PM
As of today the Sox are really the only game in town. Why in the world would they move from their position. The Sox upping the offer would be analagous to what the Rangers did when bidding for ARod.

I am confident KW will get his man. It may take a little while until Iguichi realizes this is a fair offer but eventually he will.
I think this situation is more in line with what the Cubs did for Maddux last year. If I recall right, they were the only one's to offer him anything, yet they still upped their offer slightly, and gave him an option 3rd year based on hitting a certain number of innings.

I remember thinking it was stupid of the Cubs to up their offer with nobody else bidding against them, but it still was a nice gesture and I'm sure it's more motivating for Maddux. Nobody else was outraged over the situation, so I guess it's really no big deal.

1917
01-06-2005, 03:35 PM
I think this situation is more in line with what the Cubs did for Maddux last year. If I recall right, they were the only one's to offer him anything, yet they still upped their offer slightly, and gave him an option 3rd year based on hitting a certain number of innings.

I remember thinking it was stupid of the Cubs to up their offer with nobody else bidding against them, but it still was a nice gesture and I'm sure it's more motivating for Maddux. Nobody else was outraged over the situation, so I guess it's really no big deal.
I think the Dodgers and the Giants wanted him...I know he rejected an offer from the Giants...He is a Boras client after all, he was looking for 3 years 30 mil...the Cubs gave him 3 year 21

IlliniSox
01-06-2005, 03:37 PM
Hey, I heard that there were discussions about Iguchi on MVP and the Score today-any new news?

anewman35
01-06-2005, 03:44 PM
Here's an example;

You call a girl and ask her out for dinner. She says she'll call you back with an answer soon. It's been 3 hours and she hasn't called back. Another girl calls you and wants to go out to dinner, would you tell her, "I'm waiting for another girl to return my call, sorry", or would you take the 2nd girl's offer? If you would wait for the first girl, you're a tool.
The situtation is different. With the girl, you're not sure you are going to get a girl, and there's a time limit of just a few hours. With this, it's pretty much assured that SOMEBODY would sign him, and there were months and months to go. He couldn't wait a little longer for the Cubs to make an offer?

anewman35
01-06-2005, 03:48 PM
Wasn't Spurrier making like $3 mill per w/ the Skins?
Yeah, I'm sure he was making a bunch of money, but I'm sure some college (be it Florida, or Notre Dame, or somebody) would have matched it, had he chosen to go that route.

ARoman27
01-06-2005, 03:52 PM
Everyone keeps talking like there isn't another team out there speaking with Iguchi's agent. That might be the case but KW certainly doesn't know that because teams can't speak to each other about FA's because it violates the Collective Bargaining Agreement. This is how Boras is able to get teams to bid against themselves for a player (A-Rod being the most notable).

The fact is the White Sox can never be entirely sure that he won't go to another team, but like one poster pointed out we have back up options in a Miguel Cairo or Alex Cora. Not to mention that we could get a serviceable back-up and allow Harris the opportunity to prove himself.

The biggest thing about Iguchi is that he can be an impact player for the Sox instead of a player who "won't hurt the team".

voodoochile
01-06-2005, 03:54 PM
The situtation is different. With the girl, you're not sure you are going to get a girl, and there's a time limit of just a few hours. With this, it's pretty much assured that SOMEBODY would sign him, and there were months and months to go. He couldn't wait a little longer for the Cubs to make an offer?
Okay, so you've been seeing a girl casually for a while and you say to her on January 6th, "Hey how about we do something special for Valentine's Day." She's not really into V-day and says so, but tells you she'll let you know soon. A few weeks go by and another girl that you like asks you what you are doing on V-day. Now do you wait for the first one to say Yes, or go with the second one?

There, time line issue solved...:tongue:

Flight #24
01-06-2005, 04:22 PM
FWIW - ESPN1000 just reported that Bruce Levine says the Sox have offered 2yrs-$4mil but Iguchi's agent wants another mil.

StillMissOzzie
01-06-2005, 04:42 PM
What Iguchi and his agent aren't readily acknowledging is that once he's a member of the MLBPA and part of the system, he'll be in line for some BIG raises down the road, IF he performs. Hell, even players that LOSE their arbitration get raises of 100%-300%. However, they want what's "theirs" now AND in the future.

This guy may have been tearin' 'em up in Japan, but that is not MLB. Seems to me a lot more former MLB players go to Japan to end their career than we have players imported from Japan to play MLB.

SMO
:gulp:

Jerome
01-06-2005, 04:46 PM
$250000?!?!??!?!?!

And we're giving AJ a 2.5 Million dollar deal?!?!?!

I think we need help at 2B more than catcher, as bad as catcher is.

DickAllen72
01-06-2005, 05:08 PM
sry i dont know what u ment by that
thats what i saw, i was looking further down in article

Iguchi's been playing second base for the past couple of years, since he had surgery on his shoulder. The big question has been if he can he still play shortstop with that arm since the surgery.

The article seems to have it backwards--it says the Red Sox were interested in shortstop Iguchi, but it was predicated on whether or not he could also play second base.

Iguana775
01-06-2005, 05:10 PM
maybe KW will get this done now that AJ is signed and he can concentrate 100% on negotiations with him.

CWSGuy406
01-06-2005, 05:26 PM
I don't see why many of you are freaking out...

I mean, come on. It's negotiations. Someone in this thread called this organization a 'big jag', or something along those lines.

Should the Sox, give whatever the player is asking for whatever they want? That's dumb.

Case in point with Pierzynski. He made 3.5 million this year, and was looking for close to 3 million this year. If Kenny believes he can get him for less, than why not try it? Turns out we get him for what, two-and-a-quarter million, right around there?

This is negotations. Personally, I don't feel like giving this guy a ton of money, considering he's only had two good seasons over in Japan.

Then again (and I know it'll sound like I'm contradicting myself), I think it would be worth it to give him the quarter-million, just because of the impact it will have with PR, and it will make us look very, very appealing for the second prize coming out of Japan (the 24 year old kid who throws that gyro-ball). If it's true, too, that the changing of his stance helped him take more walks/go the other way, resulting in a higher AVG/HRs/OBP, then I definitely think the 250K is worth it.

DaveIsHere
01-06-2005, 05:29 PM
Remember KDub said he wanted his team completed by the end of the week, maybe we will have AJ and Iguchi, that would be sweet

CWSGuy406
01-06-2005, 05:31 PM
Are you kidding me? They didn't even match his Japanese contract? WoW, White Sox Baseball; Hitting New Lows Every Offseason.

That's like the Miami Dolphins going to LSU and offering Nick Saban a 5 year, $5,000,000 ($1 mill per) contract while he's making $2.5 mill per at LSU.

What a joke.
Yep. Hitting new lows, like adding AJ Pierzynski, Luis Vizcaino, Scott Podsednik, Jermaine Dye, Dustin Hermanson, Orlando Hernandez, and possibly more.

Complain some more, how about it?

HomeFish
01-06-2005, 05:38 PM
and it will make us look very, very appealing for the second prize coming out of Japan (the 24 year old kid who throws that gyro-ball).

I like the sound of that, but I can't say that I know what you're talking about. Do elaborate.

chisox77
01-06-2005, 06:30 PM
White Sox could end up getting this guy. It's been a solid offseason. I have some faith in KW - with limited resources he manages to pull of some spalshy trades and decent signings. Let's just wait and see on this one.

twsoxfan5
01-06-2005, 07:30 PM
I feel like this is the best offseason the Sox have had in a long while. I love all of the things that have happened. Even though I hated to hear that Lee was getting traded I have been very pleased with how he used that money.
I love the addition of AJ and I dont think we should rush into offering Iguchi too much money. He is not really worth what he wants and KW does have other options.If you look at the improvement in our pitchers alone from last year I think this team looks pretty damn good.
2004 starting rotation: 2005 starting rotation:

Mark Buerhle Mark Burhle
Esteban Loiza Freddy Garcia
John Garland Jose Contraras
Scott Schoenweiss Orlando Hernandez
Numerous Losers John Garland

The fact that John Garland has moved fifth in our rotation should show everyone how far this rotation has come since last year. I think that Garland is a great 5 starter.

chisoxmike
01-06-2005, 07:38 PM
I just heard this at Sports Nite on Comcast Sports net that he is signed but Iguchi's agent wants another million to his contract. It was reported by Bruce Levine to Comcast Sports Net.

munchman33
01-06-2005, 07:39 PM
I just heard this at Sports Nite on Comcast Sports net that he is signed but Iguchi's agent wants another million to his contract. It was reported by Bruce Levine to Comcast Sports Net.
LOL you misheard.

They said we offered a contract, and his agent wants a million more. Not that he signed.

DonkeyKongerko
01-06-2005, 07:40 PM
Jeez and I got all worked up there for a second.

chisoxmike
01-06-2005, 07:41 PM
LOL you misheard.

They said we offered a contract, and his agent wants a million more. Not that he signed.
Oops, sorry guys. So how long till this goes to the roadhouse?

A. Cavatica
01-06-2005, 07:42 PM
If you look at the improvement in our pitchers alone from last year I think this team looks pretty damn good.
2004 starting rotation: 2005 starting rotation:

Mark Buerhle Mark Burhle
Esteban Loiza Freddy Garcia
John Garland Jose Contraras
Scott Schoenweiss Orlando Hernandez
Numerous Losers John Garland
We're definitely ahead of last winter, when KW just decided to leave the #4 and #5 spots unfilled, but don't forget that Loaiza was coming off a season where he won 21 games and should've won the Cy Young award. On paper that looked better than Freddy Garcia looks now. Buehrle and Garland are the same pitchers they were a year ago. Hernandez (age) and Contreras (head) are question marks but that beats Schoenweis (talent) and Wright (head).

lths06
01-06-2005, 07:42 PM
Now we have signed AJ, what is the payroll so far?

voodoochile
01-06-2005, 07:45 PM
Oops, sorry guys. So how long till this goes to the roadhouse?
No roadhouse for you, we merely merge it into this other thread about Iguchi...

Just for the record, once the contract is already signed, it would be MUCH too late to ask for another million...:D:

I imagine the response would be something along the lines of...

:reinsy
"Your WHAT hurts? (bursts into laughter)"

:KW
"Good one, JR! (laughs along too, checking occasionally to see that JR is still laughing)"

:hawk
"That's my line, but you can use it big guy...(starts fakely laughing)"

WhiteSoxNation
01-06-2005, 08:18 PM
Now that we have A.J. outta the way, when will know we have signed Iguchi? is there a deadline? Who are we in competiton with? How much can we spend on him?:dunno:

DaveIsHere
01-06-2005, 08:23 PM
KDub said that he would have his team set by the end of this week

FedEx227
01-06-2005, 08:25 PM
Yeah, hard to believe it will go beyond this week, probably Friday it'll be sewed up.

OEO Magglio
01-06-2005, 08:40 PM
Now that we have A.J. outta the way, when will know we have signed Iguchi? is there a deadline? Who are we in competiton with? How much can we spend on him?:dunno:
Iguchi will sign with the Sox or stay in Japan.

chisox77
01-06-2005, 08:44 PM
White Sox Record with me in attendance: 51-47

Streak: 1 win

Sign Iguchi and help that winning record get some needed separation

Hangar18
01-06-2005, 09:13 PM
He's the guy you see walking around town talking to the fans and just being human. My wife and I used to live in Fukuoka ( now fairly close ) and she says she seen him talking with fans at a couple different restaurants. I've actually made her a Sox fan, and took her folks to a game back in '03 against Minnesota ( we won). Trying to build up the Sox fan base over here!!! lol
Thanks for the Info Humansushi, and a Hearty Pat on the Back and Round
of Drinks for your Efforts to spread the White Sox Language in Japan.
Id love to shake your hand. I hope the SOX see the PR Coup they could
land if they can sign this guy. Sushi, are you Japanese? I met a couple
of huge Shingo fans from Japan and they taught me some cheers for Shingo.

chisox77
01-06-2005, 09:18 PM
With Takatsu and Iguchi on the Sox Roster, there could be a sushi night at The Cell - another bigtime PR opportunity.

White Sox Baseball - Your Gateway To The Rising Sun!

SOXSINCE'70
01-06-2005, 09:20 PM
By the way, it's my 1000th post! :supernana:

MAZELTOV AND CONGRATS!!:D: :D: :D:

Hangar18
01-06-2005, 09:21 PM
With Takatsu and Iguchi on the Sox Roster, there could be a sushi night at The Cell - another bigtime PR opportunity.

White Sox Baseball - Your Gateway To The Rising Sun!
Im getting Excited at the Idea of Iguchi playing 2B for us. That makes
Willie Harris that much more Valuable and Dangerous (dangerous in a good way) to us Off the Bench, which is Where Ive always said he was good at/on.
If we get Iguchi, I will Learn Japanese. Mark it down Fellas

A.T. Money
01-06-2005, 09:28 PM
With Takatsu and Iguchi on the Sox Roster, there could be a sushi night at The Cell - another bigtime PR opportunity.

White Sox Baseball - Your Gateway To The Rising Sun!
Sushi rules. I'll be there for that night. Sashimi (sp?) is good too, let's not forget that.

Nick@Nite
01-06-2005, 09:33 PM
If we get Iguchi, I will Learn Japanese. Mark it down FellasIf you do, as a suggestion, you ought to start by learning the beginning lyrics to Mr. Roboto by Styx. :D:

Hangar18
01-06-2005, 09:46 PM
If you do, as a suggestion, you ought to start by learning the beginning lyrics to Mr. Roboto by Styx. :D:
"Secret Secret, Ive got a Secret!" I dont care what anyone says,
Dennis DeYoung IS Styx ....... and is STILL a life-long Sox fan

humansushi
01-06-2005, 10:14 PM
Thanks for the Info Humansushi, and a Hearty Pat on the Back and Round
of Drinks for your Efforts to spread the White Sox Language in Japan.
Id love to shake your hand. I hope the SOX see the PR Coup they could
land if they can sign this guy. Sushi, are you Japanese? I met a couple
of huge Shingo fans from Japan and they taught me some cheers for Shingo.
No, I'm American...wife is Japanese.
Japanese usually tend to have favorite players, regardless of teams, and follow them religiously. If the Sox could pick-up a big name position player, it would go a long long way in putting the White Sox name in Japanese homes. I already have seen many more Sox hats & jackets since the signing of Shingo, but Iguchi would bring it to a whole other level.

The Giants are the Yankees of Japan, where H. Matsui played, so it's no surprise it's always the Yankees on tv here, along with the late game Seattle. I have Satellite tv with the MLB package and they played ALOT more Sox games last year, I would say 3X as much as the previous year. When fans here say they can't stand the Yomiuri Giants, I try to explain that the yankees are the Giants of the MLB and I understand, this is where I try to swing their favortism towards the White Sox. Iguchi's signing would be huge here in the cause.:D:

DickAllen72
01-06-2005, 10:25 PM
No, I'm American...wife is Japanese.
I already have seen many more Sox hats & jackets since the signing of Shingo, but Iguchi would bring it to a whole other level. .............................................

Iguchi's signing would be huge here in the cause.:D:

Do you think Iguchi can still play some SS, or is his arm too weak after the surgery? If he can fill in at SS as well as play 2B, I hope we give him the extra $600,000 ASAP! If not, maybe Cairo would be a better and much cheaper option.

Thanks for your opinion.

Hangar18
01-06-2005, 10:34 PM
No, I'm American...wife is Japanese.
Japanese usually tend to have favorite players, regardless of teams, and follow them religiously. If the Sox could pick-up a big name position player, it would go a long long way in putting the White Sox name in Japanese homes. I already have seen many more Sox hats & jackets since the signing of Shingo, but Iguchi would bring it to a whole other level.

The Giants are the Yankees of Japan, where H. Matsui played, so it's no surprise it's always the Yankees on tv here, along with the late game Seattle. I have Satellite tv with the MLB package and they played ALOT more Sox games last year, I would say 3X as much as the previous year. When fans here say they can't stand the Yomiuri Giants, I try to explain that the yankees are the Giants of the MLB and I understand, this is where I try to swing their favortism towards the White Sox. Iguchi's signing would be huge here in the cause.:D:
Calling Brooks Boyer......Calling Uncle Jerry ..... Are You Guys Listening?

humansushi
01-06-2005, 10:37 PM
Do you think Iguchi can still play some SS, or is his arm too weak after the surgery? If he can fill in at SS as well as play 2B, I hope we give him the extra $600,000 ASAP! If not, maybe Cairo would be a better and much cheaper option.

Thanks for your opinion.
I'm sure he could. He played at SS his whole career, at 2B the last couple of years. I wouldn't be worried about him playing some time at SS at all, but would keep him at 2B for the majority of his playing time.

konerko1413
01-06-2005, 10:39 PM
I'm sure he could. He played at SS his whole career, at 2B the last couple of years. I wouldn't be worried about him playing some time at SS at all, but would keep him at 2B for the majority of his playing time.
the reason he switched to 2nd was cuz he had an arm injury, i dont know how much it effected his arm, if hes up the middle i dont suppose too much cuz hes still got be able to turn two quickly

doctor30th
01-07-2005, 12:41 AM
From an article on Chicago sports posted tonight


Williams also said chances of signing Japan League second baseman Tadahito Iguchi, considered an impact-type player, are slim. The sides are far apart on money for a three-year deal.

"With our [signing of Pierzynski], unless the other side gets very creative on the structure of the contract, there would be a very remote possibility you'll see (Iguchi) in a White Sox uniform," Williams said. Either this is not good news or williams is flying under the radar to sign him on the opening night of Soxfest.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-050106sox,1,4509617.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

ChiWhiteSox1337
01-07-2005, 12:43 AM
From an article on Chicago sports posted tonight


Either this is not good news or williams is flying under the radar to sign him on the opening night of Soxfest.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-050106sox,1,4509617.story?coll=cs-home-headlinesThat quote is like a dagger to the heart! I hope KW is only talking to make it more of a surprise.

doctor30th
01-07-2005, 12:49 AM
I'm getting the feeling that iguchi is looking for more than just $600,000 more than what the white sox offered. I'm getting the feeling that he's probably looking for a 3 year 12 million deal.

jabrch
01-07-2005, 01:04 AM
:tomatoaward :tomatoaward
:tomatoaward :tomatoaward

gf2020
01-07-2005, 01:11 AM
It's painfully obvious that this guy is expecting Kaz Matsui money and we all know how that worked out. I'd rather have a known quantity like Alex Cora.

Mark Grudzielanek only got 1 mil from the Cardinals. I can't see Cora getting more than 2 million at this point. He's pretty good defensively and more compotent offensively than Harris.

Plus, it would save money for July when it comes time to fill that last hole on our way to a championship. (note the lack of teal non-believers)

WhiteSoxFan84
01-07-2005, 01:18 AM
Kenny Williams has been quoted as saying that the White Sox and Japanese product Tadahito Iguchi are NOT close to a contract. He did however confirm that they offered him a 2 year, $4 million contract which is still on the table. He did not make mention of the teams willingness to increase their offer.

Some information was used from The Score (HAHA, don't you guys love this professional format? Now someone will follow this thread up with; GENE HONDA, DO YOU LIKE HIM, OR NOT? or DETRIOT TIGERS, WILL THEY BE BETTER OR WORSE NEXT YEAR?)

danimal81
01-07-2005, 02:24 AM
Kenny Williams has been quoted as saying that the White Sox and Japanese product Tadahito Iguchi are NOT close to a contract. He did however confirm that they offered him a 2 year, $4 million contract which is still on the table. He did not make mention of the teams willingness to increase their offer.

Some information was used from The Score (HAHA, don't you guys love this professional format? Now someone will follow this thread up with; GENE HONDA, DO YOU LIKE HIM, OR NOT? or DETRIOT TIGERS, WILL THEY BE BETTER OR WORSE NEXT YEAR?)That can't be true, my cousin's friend's brother said KW was eating noodles with him on the near west side yesterday and he saw them shake hands and KW said, "welcome aboard shing--I mean tadahito".:tongue:

WhiteSoxFan84
01-07-2005, 02:25 AM
That can't be true, my cousin's friend's brother said KW was eating noodles with on the near west side yesterday and he saw them shake hands and KW said, "welcome aboard shing--I mean tadahito".:tongue:
lol, what's funny is I joked around like that and said that Iguchi would sign this week and AJ next week. If Iguchi signs next week, I'll be laughing my ass off.

Whitesoxtom
01-07-2005, 07:18 AM
I really hope we don't lose this guy over 350K.

MeanFish
01-07-2005, 07:36 AM
Kenny Williams has been quoted as saying that the White Sox and Japanese product Tadahito Iguchi are NOT close to a contract. He did however confirm that they offered him a 2 year, $4 million contract which is still on the table. He did not make mention of the teams willingness to increase their offer.

Some information was used from The Score (HAHA, don't you guys love this professional format? Now someone will follow this thread up with; GENE HONDA, DO YOU LIKE HIM, OR NOT? or DETRIOT TIGERS, WILL THEY BE BETTER OR WORSE NEXT YEAR?)
Why would a general manager, in the midst of contract negotiations, make mention of their willingness to increase their offer? That would be silly.

samram
01-07-2005, 08:21 AM
Why would a general manager, in the midst of contract negotiations, make mention of their willingness to increase their offer? That would be silly.
No, tipping your hand in negotiations is a great move because the other side will feel obligated to do the same, and that makes everyone happy.

Maximo
01-07-2005, 11:25 AM
I really hope we don't lose this guy over 350K.
Depending on who you listen to, that appears to be the difference in the two sides. I can't fathom that 350K is keeping this from being a done deal.

17,500 fans at 20 bucks apiece is 350K.

IlliniSox
01-07-2005, 11:30 AM
Depending on who you listen to, that appears to be the difference in the two sides. I can't fathom that 350K is keeping this from being a done deal.

17,500 fans at 20 bucks apiece is 350K.I'm sure the Japanese baseball fanbase in the Midwest that would take an extra trip the the Cell is at least 17,500

I'll seriously be sick if we're this close to an impact player. This is sooooo Sox.

mdep524
01-07-2005, 11:31 AM
From today's Cubune (and mentioned in another Iguchi thread here):Williams also said chances of signing Japan League second baseman Tadahito Iguchi, considered an impact-type player, are slim. The sides are far apart on money for a three-year deal.

"With our [signing of Pierzynski], unless the other side gets very creative on the structure of the contract, there would be a very remote possibility you'll see (Iguchi) in a White Sox uniform," Williams said. I'm sorry, but this is bogus. KW, I am pretty pleased with the team you've assembled so far this offseason, but the 2.25 mil to Pierzynski in no way prevents you from giving an extra million to Iguchi to be your starting 2B and number 2 hitter. Don't cheap out on us now- Get it done!

LVSoxFan
01-07-2005, 11:37 AM
I'm all for signing this dude. Thoughts?

My reasoning is this: I like the idea of Willie Harris having to fight his way into a starting 2nd base job, something he sure didn't do last season.

Having another 2B IMO is win/win.

fledgedrallycap
01-07-2005, 11:44 AM
Kenny says a lot of things to throw off the scent of media hounds... I wouldn't take his comments to heart quite yet. If the Suntimes is right and they're only a few hundred thousand dollars apart, the deal will get done.

CHISOXFAN13
01-07-2005, 12:07 PM
According to Bruce Levine, Iguchi wants three years, 15 million. Looks like those initial reports of it being so close were false.

SSN721
01-07-2005, 12:17 PM
According to Bruce Levine, Iguchi wants three years, 15 million. Looks like those initial reports of it being so close were false.
Heard that report too, I will take BLs opinion over any internet report or anything in the Cubune. If this is what is going on I certainly understand the hesitation on Kennys part. I think he is too much of a risk to give that much money to him. Levine says he might end up going back to Japan. He also said if they can bothe get to around 3 mil it might be a deal. Hope they can get this done.

JoseCanseco6969
01-07-2005, 12:22 PM
According to Bruce Levine, Iguchi wants three years, 15 million. Looks like those initial reports of it being so close were false.
If that's true, thanks but no thanks Iguchi. 5 mil a year for 3 years for a player with no MLB exp is crazy!

Max Power
01-07-2005, 12:23 PM
Kenny says a lot of things to throw off the scent of media hounds... I wouldn't take his comments to heart quite yet. If the Suntimes is right and they're only a few hundred thousand dollars apart, the deal will get done.
KW's comments actually made me more optimistic that the Sox will sign him. I figured KW was just screwing with the media. Then when he announces the signing at SoxFest people will be even more surprised.

DaveIsHere
01-07-2005, 12:26 PM
KDUB is flying under the radar and throwing down some falase info for people to chase, he will get it done.........................or not


I bet we either sign him or we dont:D:

SoxxoS
01-07-2005, 12:28 PM
KW said A.J wasn't "a good fit" about 3 weeks ago...who knows what goes through this guys head at any time...

Flight #24
01-07-2005, 12:31 PM
KW said A.J wasn't "a good fit" about 3 weeks ago...who knows what goes through this guys head at any time...In this case, it's pretty easy

December
"I'm not 100% sold. The guy says he'll turn it around, & truth be told we could use the attitude and his bat."

January
"What? For $2.25mil? Hell - if it doesn't work out I'll just cut his ass! That doesn't even really qualify as a risk!"

AZChiSoxFan
01-07-2005, 01:02 PM
Can someone just check with ChiSoxTony to see if this deal is really going to happen? Hey, for all we know, a contract may have already been submitted to the players union for approval.

hold2dibber
01-07-2005, 01:19 PM
From today's Cubune (and mentioned in another Iguchi thread here):I'm sorry, but this is bogus. KW, I am pretty pleased with the team you've assembled so far this offseason, but the 2.25 mil to Pierzynski in no way prevents you from giving an extra million to Iguchi to be your starting 2B and number 2 hitter. Don't cheap out on us now- Get it done!
Reinsdorft sets the budget, not Williams. Also keep in mind that without having seen the guy play, it's a bit nuts for any of us to say KW should go out and spend X numbers of dollars for him. And what if signing him prevents a mid-year trade that adds salary? I'm not certain they wouldn't be better off signing Cairo to a $1 million/year deal and letting him platoon with Harris, then saving the money for another bullpen arm or for a mid-season trade.

mdep524
01-07-2005, 02:06 PM
Reinsdorft sets the budget, not Williams. Also keep in mind that without having seen the guy play, it's a bit nuts for any of us to say KW should go out and spend X numbers of dollars for him. And what if signing him prevents a mid-year trade that adds salary? I'm not certain they wouldn't be better off signing Cairo to a $1 million/year deal and letting him platoon with Harris, then saving the money for another bullpen arm or for a mid-season trade.
In light of the recent Levine info stating Iguchi is looking for 3 yrs/15 mil, you are right. That commitment is too big to make to the guy. Hopefully KW can negotiate him down a bit. As far as the budget, I think there is an extra million between the couch cushions- the Sox are not over budget as of yet.

WhiteSoxAaron
01-07-2005, 02:56 PM
i think its crap that they made this up I was all happy and now we say we won't get him. we are cheap and his agent is an idiot! I am very happy with the signin of pierzynski, though.

CHISOXFAN13
01-07-2005, 03:01 PM
i think its crap that they made this up I was all happy and now we say we won't get him. we are cheap and his agent is an idiot! I am very happy with the signin of pierzynski, though.

His agent is an idiot for asking for too much money, but we are too cheap for not signing him.

Which one is it?

:dtroll:

Chek2002
01-07-2005, 03:10 PM
[/QUOTE] His agent is an idiot for asking for too much money, but we are too cheap for not signing him.

Which one is it?[/QUOTE]
Both are cheap. The Sox could really use Iguchi, he would be a nice upgrade over Harris.

konerko1413
01-07-2005, 06:32 PM
found this online:





While the White Sox gained a much-needed starting catcher Thursday by signing A.J. Pierzynski, it looks as if they're going lose out in a bid to sign Japanese second baseman Tadahito Iguchi.

"There isn't anything close on that front,'' said Sox general manager Kenny Williams. "Yes, we have had an interest. But I think it's remote with (the Pierzynski) move, unless we and the other side get really creative on the structure of the contract.''

delben91
01-07-2005, 06:33 PM
Just as an FYI, it's generally much preferred to just post a link to the story, and not the whole story.

I believe it has to do with copyright infringement or some such thing, but one of the mods can clarify for me.
Not trying to bust your bubble here, just spreading the word.

konerko1413
01-07-2005, 06:38 PM
Just as an FYI, it's generally much preferred to just post a link to the story, and not the whole story.

I believe it has to do with copyright infringement or some such thing, but one of the mods can clarify for me.
Not trying to bust your bubble here, just spreading the word.
i tried to but i couldnt get it to work, if someone tells me how i would always rather just add the link

NSSoxFan2
01-07-2005, 06:38 PM
I'm not terribly mad that this move won't go through. I don't think KW should give Iguchi more money than he deserves. Although, I'm not a fan of Willie at ALL, if we don't sign Cora, then I'm fine with Willie.

Erik The Red
01-07-2005, 06:40 PM
According to a report in the Japan Today newspaper, the White Sox offered the 30-year-old Iguchi a two-year, $4 million contract. But Richard Moss, Iguchi's agent, apparently is looking for a deal similar to the three-year, $20.1 million contract shortstop Kaz Matsui signed with the New York Mets last year. Well, that's perfectly reasonable, since Kaz has earned every penny of that salary and more.

Unregistered
01-07-2005, 06:46 PM
Quote:
According to a report in the Japan Today newspaper, the White Sox offered the 30-year-old Iguchi a two-year, $4 million contract. But Richard Moss, Iguchi's agent, apparently is looking for a deal similar to the three-year, $20.1 million contract shortstop Kaz Matsui signed with the New York Mets last year.


Well, that's perfectly reasonable, since Kaz has earned every penny of that salary and more.
The grand irony is Kaz Matsui and his overpriced contract is probably one of the main reasons no one wants to give an unproven Iguchi that much money.

Lip Man 1
01-07-2005, 09:02 PM
Flight:

I received an e-mail from a friend of mine in the Chicago media about the A.J. signing. This is just his opinion but I thought I'd pass it along.

He thinks it's possible that Kenny was told to sign A.J. by Reinsdorf. He speculates that Hawk had something to do with it. Both Hawk and A.J. live in Orlando and apparently are good friends. He speculates that after Williams said he wasn't interested that Hawk went to Uncle Jerry and convinced him that Williams was wrong about this. If true, he then goes on to say Williams is probably stewing over this.

Lip

Palehose13
01-07-2005, 09:04 PM
Flight:

I received an e-mail from a friend of mine in the Chicago media about the A.J. signing. This is just his opinion but I thought I'd pass it along.

He thinks it's possible that Kenny was told to sign A.J. by Reinsdorf. He speculates that Hawk had something to do with it. Both Hawk and A.J. live in Orlando and apparently are good friends. He speculates that after Williams said he wasn't interested that Hawk went to Uncle Jerry and convinced him that Williams was wrong about this. If true, he then goes on to say Williams is probably stewing over this.

Lip
Wow. That's quite the conspiracy theory.

Nick@Nite
01-07-2005, 09:21 PM
Flight:

I received an e-mail from a friend of mine in the Chicago media about the A.J. signing. This is just his opinion but I thought I'd pass it along.

He thinks it's possible that Kenny was told to sign A.J. by Reinsdorf. He speculates that Hawk had something to do with it. Both Hawk and A.J. live in Orlando and apparently are good friends. He speculates that after Williams said he wasn't interested that Hawk went to Uncle Jerry and convinced him that Williams was wrong about this. If true, he then goes on to say Williams is probably stewing over this.

LipIf true, then wow. If true, then Hawk is a scheming, conniving backstabber. Oh well. It's only speculation.

batmanZoSo
01-07-2005, 09:55 PM
Kenny says a lot of things to throw off the scent of media hounds... I wouldn't take his comments to heart quite yet. If the Suntimes is right and they're only a few hundred thousand dollars apart, the deal will get done.
I like that thinking and I agree. Plus, that's what I hope is the case all around. A few hundred thousand really is nothing in baseball. That should never be a roadblock in a deal getting done.

batmanZoSo
01-07-2005, 09:58 PM
If true, then wow. If true, then Hawk is a scheming, conniving backstabber. Oh well. It's only speculation.
If true, then Hawk ought to do this more often. Is he friends with Hank Blalock??:cool:

Nick@Nite
01-07-2005, 10:02 PM
If true, then Hawk ought to do this more often. Is he friends with Hank Blalock??:cool:
That would be nice... we can dream, can't we? :D:

johnny_mostil
01-07-2005, 10:07 PM
Flight:

I received an e-mail from a friend of mine in the Chicago media about the A.J. signing. This is just his opinion but I thought I'd pass it along.

He thinks it's possible that Kenny was told to sign A.J. by Reinsdorf. He speculates that Hawk had something to do with it. Both Hawk and A.J. live in Orlando and apparently are good friends. He speculates that after Williams said he wasn't interested that Hawk went to Uncle Jerry and convinced him that Williams was wrong about this. If true, he then goes on to say Williams is probably stewing over this.

Lip
Or, maybe, just maybe, Williams' comments about AJ earlier were just his cute little way of flying under the radar?

Let's assume, though, that it's true. We can then assume that Uncle Jerry told Williams to expand his budget by $2.5M. :cool:

Nick@Nite
01-07-2005, 10:13 PM
If true, then Hawk ought to do this more often. Is he friends with Hank Blalock??:cool:If true, I hope Hawk doesn't suddenly have a senior-moment, and tells JR to tell KW, to get Mookie by mistake.:)

batmanZoSo
01-07-2005, 10:50 PM
If true, I hope Hawk doesn't suddenly have a senior-moment, and tells JR to tell KW, to get Mookie by mistake.:)
Ha!

:reinsy
Hawker, listen one, Mookie Blaylock is retired, and two, when he did play he played basketball.

:hawk
(sounding defeated) Mercy.

Brian26
01-07-2005, 11:24 PM
Flight:

I received an e-mail from a friend of mine in the Chicago media about the A.J. signing. This is just his opinion but I thought I'd pass it along.

He thinks it's possible that Kenny was told to sign A.J. by Reinsdorf. He speculates that Hawk had something to do with it. Both Hawk and A.J. live in Orlando and apparently are good friends. He speculates that after Williams said he wasn't interested that Hawk went to Uncle Jerry and convinced him that Williams was wrong about this. If true, he then goes on to say Williams is probably stewing over this.

Lip
Hawk was interviewed on the Score last Saturday and told the host that his daughter went to high school with AJ in Florida, and Hawk actually had lunch with AJ two weeks ago. My only point here is that Hawk's affiliation with AJ hasn't been a secret.

JUribe1989
01-07-2005, 11:45 PM
Kaz Matsui and Kris Benson, two Mets, have really hurt the market with their deals. Benson is a sub-par pitcher who was overpaid completely in New York. And so called phenom Kaz Matsui had an average year in 2004 and was an awful fielder. Matsui and Benson combined for over 11 million dollars alone last year in their deals. They were both overpaid and now other players think they can get more if players like that can. I believe that is what Iguchi's agent is doing also. I think one of the sides will cave in however and we will get Iguchi.

gosox3072
01-08-2005, 09:20 AM
Kaz Matsui and Kris Benson, two Mets, have really hurt the market with their deals. Benson is a sub-par pitcher who was overpaid completely in New York. And so called phenom Kaz Matsui had an average year in 2004 and was an awful fielder. Matsui and Benson combined for over 11 million dollars alone last year in their deals. They were both overpaid and now other players think they can get more if players like that can. I believe that is what Iguchi's agent is doing also. I think one of the sides will cave in however and we will get Iguchi.
In other words Iguchi's agent is trying to be Scott Boras?

gosox41
01-08-2005, 09:30 AM
Flight:

I received an e-mail from a friend of mine in the Chicago media about the A.J. signing. This is just his opinion but I thought I'd pass it along.

He thinks it's possible that Kenny was told to sign A.J. by Reinsdorf. He speculates that Hawk had something to do with it. Both Hawk and A.J. live in Orlando and apparently are good friends. He speculates that after Williams said he wasn't interested that Hawk went to Uncle Jerry and convinced him that Williams was wrong about this. If true, he then goes on to say Williams is probably stewing over this.

Lip

I speculate that this is a lot of rumor and conspiracy.


Bob

gosox41
01-08-2005, 09:32 AM
Let's assume, though, that it's true. We can then assume that Uncle Jerry told Williams to expand his budget by $2.5M. :cool:

JR's too cheap for that.


Bob

Maximo
01-08-2005, 09:44 AM
Flight:

I received an e-mail from a friend of mine in the Chicago media about the A.J. signing. This is just his opinion but I thought I'd pass it along.

He thinks it's possible that Kenny was told to sign A.J. by Reinsdorf. He speculates that Hawk had something to do with it. Both Hawk and A.J. live in Orlando and apparently are good friends. He speculates that after Williams said he wasn't interested that Hawk went to Uncle Jerry and convinced him that Williams was wrong about this. If true, he then goes on to say Williams is probably stewing over this.

Lip
If true....then make Hawk the GM.

Oh,wait a minute......they did that once already.

Never mind.

Reinsdorf's infatuation with Harrelson never ceases to amaze me.

Still, I like the signing.

34 Inch Stick
01-08-2005, 11:38 AM
I saw in the Sun Times today that the Sox and Iguchi are farther apart than $285K a year. According to Kenny Iguichi's agent is still pushing for the Matsui money.

Doesn't Iguichi's agent feel a little foolish insisting that his client is worth 7 mill when the highest offer is only 2 mil and that offerer refuses to budge from that position.

Grudzielanik signs for 1 mil, Walker signs for 2.5 mil, Womack signs for about the same, Eckstein gets cut and then signs for under 3, yet a 30 year old minor leaguer (japanese league) is suddenly worth 7.

Fredsox
01-08-2005, 12:13 PM
I saw in the Sun Times today that the Sox and Iguchi are farther apart than $285K a year. According to Kenny Iguichi's agent is still pushing for the Matsui money.

Doesn't Iguichi's agent feel a little foolish insisting that his client is worth 7 mill when the highest offer is only 2 mil and that offerer refuses to budge from that position.

Grudzielanik signs for 1 mil, Walker signs for 2.5 mil, Womack signs for about the same, Eckstein gets cut and then signs for under 3, yet a 30 year old minor leaguer (japanese league) is suddenly worth 7.
Yeah, I can't believe that KW would hold the line on $285k per year if he thought this was the last piece to the puzzle. This agent needs to do a better job of setting expectations with his client. The Sox offer is market-level, and I'm sure there's some room for a reasonable counter-offer.

Mingo
01-08-2005, 12:42 PM
I'm new to the board - and know less about the White Sox (though I've been a life long fan from afar) and baseball than most who post here, but in terms of negotiations - I think KW suspects Iguchi's agent is trying to drive the market for his client based solely on by KW's interest. Not being sucked into that is the best negotiating stance at this point. I don't think it is the money so much as it is the process that bothers KW.

Ol' No. 2
01-08-2005, 02:45 PM
I'm new to the board - and know less about the White Sox (though I've been a life long fan from afar) and baseball than most who post here, but in terms of negotiations - I think KW suspects Iguchi's agent is trying to drive the market for his client based solely on by KW's interest. Not being sucked into that is the best negotiating stance at this point. I don't think it is the money so much as it is the process that bothers KW.You mean getting Kenny to bid against himself? Geez, this guy really DOES want to be Scott Boras.

samram
01-08-2005, 02:48 PM
You mean getting Kenny to bid against himself? Geez, this guy really DOES want to be Scott Boras.
Apparently. The reports people have posted here have him seeking a 3-yr, $20M deal like Matsui's, which no team has come close to approaching- it's like Boras and his 10-yr, $200M theory for Beltran.

santo=dorf
01-08-2005, 02:57 PM
Flight:

I received an e-mail from a friend of mine in the Chicago media about the A.J. signing. This is just his opinion but I thought I'd pass it along.

He thinks it's possible that Kenny was told to sign A.J. by Reinsdorf. He speculates that Hawk had something to do with it. Both Hawk and A.J. live in Orlando and apparently are good friends. He speculates that after Williams said he wasn't interested that Hawk went to Uncle Jerry and convinced him that Williams was wrong about this. If true, he then goes on to say Williams is probably stewing over this.

Lip
:reinsy
"AJ will also be one of my bodyguards at Soxfest. I'd like to see one of you Sox fans try to do a 'Hunter-Burke" with AJ standing in front of me!"

Lip, I think I head it on ESPN radio here in Chicago that Dustin Hermanson recommended AJ to KW.

johnny_mostil
01-08-2005, 04:19 PM
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getsp.pl5?sb20050107j1.htm

"Both sides have failed to narrow the differences over financial terms after the White Sox offered a two-year, $4 million (about 420 million yen) deal and demanded an early response.

A person familiar with the talks indicated that Iguchi's side hopes for a deal that at least matches his contract with the Daiei Hawks carrying an annual salary of 240 million yen for 2004."
So, he wants another 400K.

FightingBillini
01-09-2005, 02:24 AM
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getsp.pl5?sb20050107j1.htm


"Both sides have failed to narrow the differences over financial terms after the White Sox offered a two-year, $4 million (about 420 million yen) deal and demanded an early response.


A person familiar with the talks indicated that Iguchi's side hopes for a deal that at least matches his contract with the Daiei Hawks carrying an annual salary of 240 million yen for 2004."

So, he wants another 400K. I can't believe that the Sox are going to possibly let their choice at 2B slip away because of $400,000. That is less than Reinsdorf paid for the gold toilet on his 4th yacht. I agreed with the way the Sox handled the AJ signing; I don't think they disrespected him with their offer. However, if the Sox WANT Iguchi, and he says he want to come here, get him here. He dropped his salary demands, but he wants very much to make at least what he did in his home country. You don't offer a player less money to move his wife and children to a foreign land. If this report is true, the Sox offer is disrespectful. Give the man his damn $400k. If nothing else, give him monster incentives that could increase his contract to like $6 or 7mil. As Lip has said before, JR doesn't mind one bit paying for production he receives. He will gladly pay out incentives if it means Iguchi bats .310 with 25HR and 80 RBI.

jabrch
01-09-2005, 02:31 AM
I'm still not convinced that Iguchi is necesarily any better than Harris. Willie's numbers were improved last year. Iguchi would have to get used to coming over here and playing in a totally different game. Look at Kaz Matsui last year - he was much better in Japan than Iguchi was, and last year Kaz put up .272/.331/.396. For about 1/3 of what Iguchi wants to make, we already have Harris.

I'm just not sure that Iguchi is the player that some are hoping he is. I think the Sox offer of 2mm sounds more than fair to me. If he doesn't want to take it, I'm really fine with Willie out there.

StillMissOzzie
01-09-2005, 02:33 AM
I'm new to the board - and know less about the White Sox (though I've been a life long fan from afar) and baseball than most who post here, but in terms of negotiations - I think KW suspects Iguchi's agent is trying to drive the market for his client based solely on by KW's interest. Not being sucked into that is the best negotiating stance at this point. I don't think it is the money so much as it is the process that bothers KW.
Welcome to WSI, Mingo, and you may be right. An earlier article on ESPN.com claimed interest from 4-5 teams (info provided by the agent, I believe), most notably the high-spending Yankees & Red Sox. Either there is NO interest from anyone else, or their interest level (read: $$$) was in the same ballpark as KW's. Either way, their negotiating strength is lacking, it's more a matter if they really want to play MLB or stay in Japan at this point.

SMO
:gulp:

jabrch
01-09-2005, 02:54 AM
Welcome to WSI, Mingo, and you may be right. An earlier article on ESPN.com claimed interest from 4-5 teams (info provided by the agent, I believe), most notably the high-spending Yankees & Red Sox. Either there is NO interest from anyone else, or their interest level (read: $$$) was in the same ballpark as KW's. Either way, their negotiating strength is lacking, it's more a matter if they really want to play MLB or stay in Japan at this point.

SMO
:gulp:

Another thing to keep in mind is that Iguchi probably doesn't want to come here without a starting job. Neither the Yanks (Womack) or the Red Sox (Bellhorn) really have openings at 2B.

It's nice that Mr. Iguchi eaned 240mm yen in Japan this year. Maybe his market in the USA is more like the 1mm$ that Mark Grudzalanek got, and KW doesn't want to overpay more than he already is? Who knows?

samram
01-09-2005, 09:43 AM
I can't believe that the Sox are going to possibly let their choice at 2B slip away because of $400,000. That is less than Reinsdorf paid for the gold toilet on his 4th yacht. I agreed with the way the Sox handled the AJ signing; I don't think they disrespected him with their offer. However, if the Sox WANT Iguchi, and he says he want to come here, get him here. He dropped his salary demands, but he wants very much to make at least what he did in his home country. You don't offer a player less money to move his wife and children to a foreign land. If this report is true, the Sox offer is disrespectful. Give the man his damn $400k. If nothing else, give him monster incentives that could increase his contract to like $6 or 7mil. As Lip has said before, JR doesn't mind one bit paying for production he receives. He will gladly pay out incentives if it means Iguchi bats .310 with 25HR and 80 RBI.
So the concept of signing players at market value, one floated about on these boards repeatedly by those who believe JR is too stingy in the free agent market, suddenly doesn't apply? Iguchi decided to terminate his contract with Dalei- he wasn't forced by anyone on the Sox or any other MLB team. Now he's finding out he overestimated his value.

As I posted earlier, if I was JR, and I thought Iguchi could add something to the team, I would find a way to close a gap this small. However, let's not pretend that the laws of supply and demand cease to exist because the guy has decided to move his family overseas.

gosox41
01-09-2005, 09:53 AM
I'm still not convinced that Iguchi is necesarily any better than Harris. Willie's numbers were improved last year. Iguchi would have to get used to coming over here and playing in a totally different game. Look at Kaz Matsui last year - he was much better in Japan than Iguchi was, and last year Kaz put up .272/.331/.396. For about 1/3 of what Iguchi wants to make, we already have Harris.

I'm just not sure that Iguchi is the player that some are hoping he is. I think the Sox offer of 2mm sounds more than fair to me. If he doesn't want to take it, I'm really fine with Willie out there.
Also, couldn't Iguchi make some extra money thrpough endorsements. One would think in the right situation in Chicago that both Shingo an Tiguchi would be marketable as long as they have friendly personalities.


Bob

surfdudes
01-09-2005, 11:53 AM
I'm still not convinced that Iguchi is necesarily any better than Harris. Willie's numbers were improved last year. Iguchi would have to get used to coming over here and playing in a totally different game. Look at Kaz Matsui last year - he was much better in Japan than Iguchi was, and last year Kaz put up .272/.331/.396. For about 1/3 of what Iguchi wants to make, we already have Harris.

I'm just not sure that Iguchi is the player that some are hoping he is. I think the Sox offer of 2mm sounds more than fair to me. If he doesn't want to take it, I'm really fine with Willie out there.
Exactly, although with Borchard probably not cutting it this ST, we have room for another 2B/SS platoon guy like Iguchi or Cora that will give Ozzie a little more flexibility and with Dye/Pods/Rowand/Timo/Everett and the gang of bullpen guys we have it might be wise to fill that spot. Who's Crede's backup anyway?

OEO Magglio
01-09-2005, 12:08 PM
Exactly, although with Borchard probably not cutting it this ST, we have room for another 2B/SS platoon guy like Iguchi or Cora that will give Ozzie a little more flexibility and with Dye/Pods/Rowand/Timo/Everett and the gang of bullpen guys we have it might be wise to fill that spot. Who's Crede's backup anyway?
Uribe. Maybe Burke if he comes back.

Flight #24
01-09-2005, 12:10 PM
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getsp.pl5?sb20050107j1.htm


"Both sides have failed to narrow the differences over financial terms after the White Sox offered a two-year, $4 million (about 420 million yen) deal and demanded an early response.


A person familiar with the talks indicated that Iguchi's side hopes for a deal that at least matches his contract with the Daiei Hawks carrying an annual salary of 240 million yen for 2004."

So, he wants another 400K.I'm sorry, but in a credibility race between Bruce Levine and the Japan Times, BL wins for me. He specifically debunked this report.

Flight #24
01-09-2005, 12:12 PM
Flight:

I received an e-mail from a friend of mine in the Chicago media about the A.J. signing. This is just his opinion but I thought I'd pass it along.

He thinks it's possible that Kenny was told to sign A.J. by Reinsdorf. He speculates that Hawk had something to do with it. Both Hawk and A.J. live in Orlando and apparently are good friends. He speculates that after Williams said he wasn't interested that Hawk went to Uncle Jerry and convinced him that Williams was wrong about this. If true, he then goes on to say Williams is probably stewing over this.

Lip
Seems like pretty wild speculation to me. Especially since IMO JR's shown in the past that he's not exactly a micro-manager of his GMs. He does get involved on the negotiations for big contracts (like most owners), but I find it hard to believe that he's going to overrule KW on something like signing AJP.

The low $$ = low risk theory combined with a motivated AJ seems a lot more plausible to me.

konerko1413
01-09-2005, 01:08 PM
Seems like pretty wild speculation to me. Especially since IMO JR's shown in the past that he's not exactly a micro-manager of his GMs. He does get involved on the negotiations for big contracts (like most owners), but I find it hard to believe that he's going to overrule KW on something like signing AJP.

The low $$ = low risk theory combined with a motivated AJ seems a lot more plausible to me.

the following day in the newspaper it was revealed that KW had a meeting with dustin hermansan and he told KW what to expect with AJ, he said that the badmouthing of AJ was only the opinion for 1 or 2 players and that he, and most of the other players, enjoyed having AJ on the team and in the clubhouse

Whitesox029
01-09-2005, 07:44 PM
C'mon guys only 311 posts to break the record!

bhayes520
01-09-2005, 07:55 PM
we can do it....it is within the reasonable distance, i think someone just needs to bring up a very controversial issue that will get many people upset, or ask for a prediction from everybody, then we will surely get it.....ummm..................... lets say, hypothetically, that if the sox had him, how much would his salary be, and what would be his stats for this year (i.e. BA, HR, RBI, SB, F%, etc...)

FightingBillini
01-09-2005, 08:08 PM
we can do it....it is within the reasonable distance, i think someone just needs to bring up a very controversial issue that will get many people upset, or ask for a prediction from everybody, then we will surely get it.....ummm..................... lets say, hypothetically, that if the sox had him, how much would his salary be, and what would be his stats for this year (i.e. BA, HR, RBI, SB, F%, etc...)
:?:

SleepySox
01-09-2005, 09:41 PM
I caught the tail end of an ESPN bottom line thread about a player going back to his Japanese team. Was it this guy?

buehrle4cy05
01-09-2005, 09:42 PM
Tony Batista left the MLB to go back to Japan...

SleepySox
01-09-2005, 09:43 PM
Tony Batista left the MLB to go back to Japan...
Oh, ok.

Mingo
01-09-2005, 10:18 PM
Welcome to WSI, Mingo, and you may be right. An earlier article on ESPN.com claimed interest from 4-5 teams (info provided by the agent, I believe), most notably the high-spending Yankees & Red Sox. Either there is NO interest from anyone else, or their interest level (read: $$$) was in the same ballpark as KW's. Either way, their negotiating strength is lacking, it's more a matter if they really want to play MLB or stay in Japan at this point.

SMO
:gulp:
Thanks for the welcome SMO.

tadscout
01-10-2005, 02:55 PM
Any more news on the Iguchi front?

AZChiSoxFan
01-10-2005, 03:55 PM
Any more news on the Iguchi front?I'm sure that ChiSoxTony knows, if we could just get him to tell us.

BeerHandle
01-10-2005, 04:17 PM
I'm sure that ChiSoxTony knows, if we could just get him to tell us.
It is going to come down to him accepting our offer or another team makes a serious offer, which would make Kenny up the ante.

It was quiet over the weekend.

na_na_na_na
01-10-2005, 06:27 PM
I'm thinking this will be our big sox fest announcement this year. Or KW will make a trade for both alomars.

Ol' No. 2
01-10-2005, 06:29 PM
I'm thinking this will be our big sox fest announcement this year. Or KW will make a trade for both alomars.Aiiiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeeeeee! My eyes!!!!!!!!

FightingBillini
01-10-2005, 06:37 PM
Or KW will make a trade for both alomars.
:o: :o: :o: :o: :o:

Im assuming you dont know that TEAL is for sarcasm and DEEP PINK is for wishful thinking.

chaz171
01-10-2005, 07:00 PM
I am hoping that we can get any proven commodity at 2nd base.....

hey less than 300 to go>>>>>

na_na_na_na
01-11-2005, 10:16 AM
:o: :o: :o: :o: :o:

Im assuming you dont know that TEAL is for sarcasm and DEEP PINK is for wishful thinking.
Was supposed to look like this:

I'm thinking this will be our big sox fest announcement this year.(meaning Iguchi) Or KW will make a trade for both alomars.

chisox77
01-11-2005, 04:58 PM
So, is the 2005 White Sox lineup set for spring training? It may be safe to figure that Iguchi will not be signed, though there is always a chance for something to happen. Either way, its been a killer offseason for the Sox.

SleepySox
01-11-2005, 05:26 PM
It'll feel a bit incomplete for me if we don't sign him. Whether it's him or Cora, I think we should sign someone as Willie-insurance. If we don't, then I hope I'm wrong and everything works out...

johnny_mostil
01-11-2005, 06:24 PM
So, is the 2005 White Sox lineup set for spring training? It may be safe to figure that Iguchi will not be signed, though there is always a chance for something to happen. Either way, its been a killer offseason for the Sox.
A lot of people would disagree with you, but they tend to be people who think that loading up on players who are coming off uncharacteristically good seasons is somehow a good thing. KW bought a few players "low" and sold off one player, Lee, "high".

I think fans in Detroit and Cleveland are in for some rude shocks.

chisox77
01-11-2005, 07:30 PM
That's the same logic I'm using. The White Sox looked "good" on paper since 2001, and averaged about 83-84 wins a season. KW tried his best to build around a core of sluggers who were also base-cloggers, and for the most part, spotty defensive players (except for Magglio, who is a solid outfielder).

I have no problem with the revamped Sox - it was needed because the previous formula did not work, and perhaps the 2000 season allowed us to overate that talent base to begin with.

AZChiSoxFan
01-13-2005, 03:19 PM
I'm thinking this will be our big sox fest announcement this year. Or KW will make a trade for both alomars.:tealpolice:

soltrain21
01-13-2005, 04:21 PM
:tealpolice:

He should get off on a warning, the first part was wishful thinking. However, if the second part was also wishful thinking...then off with his head!

dirtydowndevil
01-13-2005, 08:52 PM
Being that Boston has signed E.Renteria and R.Vazquez. Does this still make us to top bidders on Iguchi.

tadscout
01-13-2005, 11:36 PM
A caller asked about Iguchi. Levine says that there is some bad info about the Sox negotiations with him. He says that the Sox have offered a 2-year deal worth $4-5 million. Iguchi wanted 3 years and around $20 million. Levine says they have since backed down on the $20 million, but that the Sox and Iguchi are still working on a 3rd year. He speculates that the Sox could announce the signing tomorrow, simply because Kenny likes to do things around Soxfest.That would be sweet!:bandance:

BeerHandle
01-14-2005, 09:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jjav829
A caller asked about Iguchi. Levine says that there is some bad info about the Sox negotiations with him. He says that the Sox have offered a 2-year deal worth $4-5 million. Iguchi wanted 3 years and around $20 million. Levine says they have since backed down on the $20 million, but that the Sox and Iguchi are still working on a 3rd year. He speculates that the Sox could announce the signing tomorrow, simply because Kenny likes to do things around Soxfest.
That would be sweet!:bandance:Was that on the Hot Stove Report last night? If so, I missed that part. If we are able to sign Iguchi, I would say that we would be the favorites in the Division. It will be interesting to see how Iguchi plays in the MLB. If he is 2/3 of Ichiro we would have found another good player.

THE KEY TO THE YEAR: Sox play as a team!

jabrch
01-14-2005, 09:25 AM
I am hoping that we can get any proven commodity at 2nd base.....

Just a question...how is Iguchi any more proven than Willie Harris? Harris had a .340 obp in the major leagues last year. How many ABs has Iguchi had in MLB? None - lots of good Japanese players have struggled here - so its not out of the question.

I'd be all for signing him - don't get me wrong. I'm just not 100% sure this is a lock of an upgrade. Now 2 years, 4mm (even adding a 3rd year at the same sort of money) seems like fairly low risk also - so I like the move, but I'm just not at the point where either I think this is a lock to make us better, or where failure to make it happen would be a terrible disaster.

I could live with giving Willie a shot given the look of the rest of this roster.

Ol' No. 2
01-14-2005, 09:50 AM
Just a question...how is Iguchi any more proven than Willie Harris? Harris had a .340 obp in the major leagues last year. How many ABs has Iguchi had in MLB? None - lots of good Japanese players have struggled here - so its not out of the question.

I'd be all for signing him - don't get me wrong. I'm just not 100% sure this is a lock of an upgrade. Now 2 years, 4mm (even adding a 3rd year at the same sort of money) seems like fairly low risk also - so I like the move, but I'm just not at the point where either I think this is a lock to make us better, or where failure to make it happen would be a terrible disaster.

I could live with giving Willie a shot given the look of the rest of this roster.The Sox have Crede-Uribe-Harris in the IF. I think these guys are going to be fine, but realistically, I have to say there are varying sizes of question marks on all three. So the chances of at least one of the three not coming through becomes not insignificant. They need a reasonable Plan B, and Iguchi fills the bill if he can be had at a reasonable price. This assumes he can play SS, which I have to assume Kenny believes he can. This move would have a big upside and very little downside.

jabrch
01-14-2005, 09:55 AM
If he played SS poorly enough after his injury that he had to be moved to 2B in Japan, why do you think he can do it at the bigs?

They say he doesn't have a SS arm anymore.

Ol' No. 2
01-14-2005, 10:01 AM
If he played SS poorly enough after his injury that he had to be moved to 2B in Japan, why do you think he can do it at the bigs?

They say he doesn't have a SS arm anymore.He might not be able to do it every day, but he might be able to do it once in a while to spell Uribe. Otherwise they would need to carry another IF. It's tough to fit 7 IF into a 25 man roster (assuming they don't punt Harris, which I don't believe they will).

mdep524
01-14-2005, 10:57 AM
He might not be able to do it every day, but he might be able to do it once in a while to spell Uribe. Otherwise they would need to carry another IF. It's tough to fit 7 IF into a 25 man roster (assuming they don't punt Harris, which I don't believe they will).
Solution: Cut/trade/demote Willie Harris and Wilso Valdez; sign Iguchi and Barry Larkin. Then you starting infield is Crede/Uribe/Iguchi/Konerko, and you have capable back ups at every position: 3B-Uribe, SS-Larkin, 2B-Larkin, 1B-Gload.

34 Inch Stick
01-14-2005, 12:51 PM
Bruce Levine mentioned the Sox may announce an Iguichi signing this weekend. Poster who showed up to buy tickets today said that Brooks Boyer said the Sox may announce an Iguichi signing this weekend. All it would take is a Hawk statement regarding the issue for me to say this is a done deal.

I think I said it about 5 pages ago. It took a little time for him to realize he was not getting Matsui money. As the market for second baseman dried up and made it obvious that his was a good offer he signed the contract. I predicted the middle of January. Further, take the Colts and the points.

santo=dorf
01-14-2005, 01:49 PM
Last night Bruce Levine said that the earlier reports of the Sox being only $600,000 apart from Iguchi were untrue (Hey! It was Ofman reporting it :rolleyes: ) and that if Kenny wants him on the team, he'll probably have him signed this weekend, but he's not reporting a done deal.

JUribe1989
01-14-2005, 02:00 PM
Last night Bruce Levine said that the earlier reports of the Sox being only $600,000 apart from Iguchi were untrue (Hey! It was Ofman reporting it :rolleyes: ) and that if Kenny wants him on the team, he'll probably have him signed this weekend, but he's not reporting a done deal.
Another Japanese Player as our Soxfest surprise? It was Shingo last year. That would be great :)

lths06
01-14-2005, 02:05 PM
Another Japanese Player as our Soxfest surprise? It was Shingo last year. That would be great :)
Would that make us the team with the most Jap. players?

lths06
01-14-2005, 02:06 PM
:tomatoaward (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=5#):tomatoaward (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=5#)
:tomatoaward (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=5#):tomatoaward (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=5#):tomatoaward (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=5#)

He better sign for all of these!!!:smile: