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View Full Version : Your biggest White Sox concern going into 2005


WhiteSoxFan84
12-25-2004, 03:07 AM
I know that the offseason is not over yet, but I think it's safe to say that the White Sox won't be making anymore drastic changes. Frankly, I'm happy with almost the whole team except for 2B, 3B, and C.

That being said, I ask you to tell me; What is your biggest White Sox concern going into 2005?

1) Bench
2) Closer
3) 2B
4) SS
5) 3B
6) C
7) Overall team health
8) Overall team hitting
9) On-field management
10) Other

Please feel free to respond with your choice and why you made that pick.

jordan23ventura
12-25-2004, 03:20 AM
I know that the offseason is not over yet, but I think it's safe to say that the White Sox won't be making anymore drastic changes. Frankly, I'm happy with almost the whole team except for 2B, 3B, and C.

That being said, I ask you to tell me; What is your biggest White Sox concern going into 2005?

1) Bench
2) Closer
3) 2B
4) SS
5) 3B
6) C
7) Overall team health
8) Overall team hitting
9) On-field management
10) Other

Please feel free to respond with your choice and why you made that pick.
My biggest concern is losing a weak division - again. Usually, that is the result of the combined 'efforts' of all involved.

FightingBillini
12-25-2004, 03:53 AM
Obviously C is a big concern. We will most likely get no offense out of that position. However, catcher is a defensive position, and I don't mind that black hole offensively (and i don't think Davis/Burke will be that bad) because the pitching staff seems to like them, and neither one if a defensive liability. I may be horribly wrong and naive, but I still believe that Ben Davis will be a star in the future for us. He will never be a phenom like Ivan Rodriquez or an offensive juggernaut like Piazza circa 1998, but I feel he can be a Varitek type player. It was clear watching the games last year that Davis quickly became the heart of the team. Clearly Davis is nowhere near Varitek's level now, but there is something about him that gives me the feeling he is a special player. Call me a fool, but I have that hunch. Either way, we will be getting the solid defense and game-calling out of the C position, so i could put up with a .240 BA out of our catchers this year. I wouldn't like it, but I could put up with it.

My biggest concern right now is Harris at 2B. He had one great month, one very good month, one half-way respectable month, and three horrible months. He can't hit lefties, and is wasting his amazing speed by stealing very few bases. If Harris bats the same as in 04, the Sox could be in trouble. This concerns me so much because there are still some alternatives out there. KW needs to make every possible effort to get Polanco in a trade from the Phillies. If not him, then Cairo would be a good option. Worst case scenario, Willie would get to "mature" against righties with Cairo hitting lefties. 2B concerns me because there are very good options to fill the holes.

3B is different. There is not really that much talent available now at that position. We are pretty much stuck with Crede unless we can sign another middle infielder and move Uribe to third. We'd better hope that Crede improves. I think he will improve substantially this year, probably raising his average to the high .260s. All that work fixing his swing will work out great for us.

Fredsox
12-25-2004, 06:28 AM
It's flat-out the offense. I think we're comfortable with the pitching, and that is will inherently improve the defense to above-average. The total unknown factor is the offense. We're starting the seasone with a major force (Thomas) on the DL, unknown commodities in Dye and Pod-whateverhisnameis, and wondering if Aaron Rowand has finally learned how to hit consistently.

If these guys perform as hoped the pitching can carry us into the playoffs. They don't have to be great, just good. If they're not we're probably staring at 3rd place behind the Indians and the Twinkies.

SOXSINCE'70
12-25-2004, 09:06 AM
Where's The Offense??!??

SoxFan48
12-25-2004, 09:26 AM
Is he a good game manager? Does he really believe that pitching and defense by itself wins ball games? Did he believe his own quote that his kind of player is more valuable to a team than a Cal Ripkin kind of player? And do we need an experienced bench coach to lay out all the options to the manager?

johnny_mostil
12-25-2004, 09:55 AM
Where's The Offense??!??
Meet the new offense, it's almost the same as the old 2004 offense. Lee for Podsednik plus Dye for (The Tag Team of Incompetence) isn't a wash, but it isn't all that terrible.

First, you have to park adjust Pod's numbers. Miller is not near the hitters' park USCF is. It only helps a little, but it helps:

Park Adj. AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SB-CS AVG OBP SLG
Pod/USCF 649 89 165 25 6 15 41 55 70-13 .254/.319/.381
Lee/USCF 591 103 180 37 0 31 99 54 11- 5 .305/.370/.525

Consider also that Podsednik's home numbers were gosh-awful last year. Podsenik figures to out-hit 2004 or he'll lose his job because the White Sox, unlike the Brewers in '04, have alternatives. Lee won't come close to 2004 or the projection (below) because it's quite a bit out of whack with his career and he's old enough to be expected to drop. You can't just compare OPS, either, because Pod's SB totals are unusual enough to be worth 10 points of OPS at least.

Second, you have to park adjust Dye's numbers vs the TTI:

Park Adj. AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SB-CS AVG OBP SLG
Dye/USCF 537 88 146 28 4 24 81 47 4- 2 .273/.335/.476
TTI/USCF 631 81 159 24 3 22 95 48 3- 3 .252/.314/.404

(TTI is Ordonez+Timo+Ross+Carl+Joe while playing RF).

The total difference is about 40 offensive runs even if Podsednik hits like he did last year. I would think the total runs saved by the outfield defense will go up by at least 10 runs with Lee gone.

Now, the pitching difference between El Duque and the 9.08 ERA posted by the fifth starters last season gets made up, more than likely, if El Duque gets to just 100 innings.

[Sauce for the gander:

Park Adj. AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SB-CS AVG OBP SLG
Lee/MIL 585 99 171 40 0 26 95 57 11- 5 .292/.362/.492]

johnny_mostil
12-25-2004, 10:02 AM
Is he a good game manager? Does he really believe that pitching and defense by itself wins ball games?
No, he doesn't. But many White Sox fans do. It's called P.R.

They will still score 5 runs a game. A lot of the offense's perceived thunder is a park effect, and the park is still there. Even Podsednik will hit 20 homers without trying. Besides, if the offense is stalling at all and it starts costing the team games, they will adjust. Don't kid yourself that Ozzie will lose 4-2 every night and stick to some run-and-gun philosophy if it isn't working.

On the other hand, the Fifth Starter Hole cost the Sox seven to ten games a year in the standings. This will be the first spring training in over a decade with five solid starting pitchers pencilled in. That is reason for optimism. That and the fact that 3/4 of the Twins infield is Cuddyer/Bartlett/Rivas, Santana and Radke will make enough to force them to economize elsewhere, and Mauer can't really catch all year...

(Merry Christmas)

misty60481
12-25-2004, 10:06 AM
I agree about the offense--we are really heading into 05 with one proven hitter__Big Frank-- and a bunch of question marks.. I think Rowand is here to stay and agree with #3 that Davis is going to be a good catcher, the rest I only hope Crede can live up to his potental and stay there--the rest Pods ?? Uribe should be a star but he needs to be more consistant..I am in nowhere land on Dye he seems like the type that could break out and be a big name but just cant quite make it,,as far as Harris goes---get Polenco (sp ) or anybody he is useless..our pitching seems set so our concern is Ozzie--I would like to see JR patch up his feelings with Fisk and make him bench coach--we need somebody as hardnosed about winning as him. Ozzie is to much mouth and no action as with thew Torii Hunter incident I think Ozzie lost a lot of respect because of that--especially when it happened...

munchman33
12-25-2004, 10:50 AM
My biggest concern is that come the end of the season, all of the complainers/KW haters/pessimists will be boasting that they were there all along when we win the division.

lths06
12-25-2004, 10:55 AM
My biggest concern is that we actually play "Ozzie Ball". If you remember last year, in the beginning we did the small things that helped us win. Later in the season, however, we stopped doing those small things and relyed on power. We all know how well that worked out for us. This time we don't have really any power to fall back to. If we actually play Ozzie Ball, I think we will do well. Our pitching staff will keep it close, so our batters gotta get 'her done!

markopat
12-25-2004, 11:02 AM
I am still concerned about our starting rotation...We need one more stud! It's all about the pitching.

veeter
12-25-2004, 11:11 AM
My biggest concern are the Twins. Can we get over the mental edge they usually have on us? Ozzie needs to make up for his embarrasing stance on the Hunter/ Burke collision. That was the turning point in 2004 in my opinion. (not downplaying losing Frank/ Maggs). This division is always there for the taking. The Twins seem to have the confidence to take it; this the Sox must change. The new personnel, I think, will change that because they are fresh to the Twins/ Sox rivalry.

soxtalker
12-25-2004, 11:21 AM
I voted "other". This will be a strange answer. When I started thinking about the question, I realized -- a bit of a surprise to myself -- that pitching and starting pitching, in particular, is my biggest concern. It isn't that I'm terribly unhappy with the acquisitions that KW has made in this area. The problem that I'm looking at is what happens when something goes wrong. Those starters look good on paper, but what happens if a couple get injured or have major problems due to other reasons? What are our back-up strategies?

On the field, I'm not as concerned. Perhaps it is because we are not expecting as much from many of these players, and KW appears to be assembling alternatives. The rumored attempts to acquire a couple of FA SS's were disappointing because we lost out to other teams. However, they indicate that KW is actively pursuing alternatives here. Perhaps the same is true for pitching, though I get the impression that the competition is much more intense and cost higher.

Dan H
12-25-2004, 11:46 AM
My biggest concern is that the Sox are taking chances like they do every year in the sense that they are hoping that certain players will return to past forms. El Duque and Dye are coming off years where injuries are like a hanging cloud. If they are healthy and come through, the outlook improves greatly. If they don't, other weaknesses will be exposed. Is the team taking chances on these guys because it truly believes they can contribute in a big way? Or are they just cheaper?

Also just how injured is Frank Thomas? And how can he contribute when he returns? And now that the team has gotten more pitching and speed, is it enough pitching and speed? Or are we looking at a time that will now have problems both offensively and defenisvely?

duke of dorwood
12-25-2004, 11:54 AM
My biggest concern is that the Sox are taking chances like they do every year in the sense that they are hoping that certain players will return to past forms. El Duque and Dye are coming off years where injuries are like a hanging cloud. If they are healthy and come through, the outlook improves greatly. If they don't, other weaknesses will be exposed. Is the team taking chances on these guys because it truly believes they can contribute in a big way? Or are they just cheaper?

Also just how injured is Frank Thomas? And how can he contribute when he returns? And now that the team has gotten more pitching and speed, is it enough pitching and speed? Or are we looking at a time that will now have problems both offensively and defenisvely?
Cheaper is ALWAYS the word

And we have a still inexperienced manager, Chemistry issues, and ZERO depth.

THere are numerous concerns-if you care about winning

Whitesox029
12-25-2004, 10:25 PM
Where's The Offense??!??I think it's natural for us all to be worried about the offense. We've been one of the best offensive teams in the league since 2000, and it makes us feel vulnerable to have lost so much power. The fact is that it never worked for us. However, our pitching staff is hugely improved, and our lineup will be leaner and faster. It will take some time for us as fans to get comfortable with it, but I think we'll grow to like it when we run away with the Central.

Whitesox029
12-25-2004, 10:26 PM
...literally.

soxnut
12-25-2004, 10:37 PM
I think it's natural for us all to be worried about the offense. We've been one of the best offensive teams in the league since 2000, and it makes us feel vulnerable to have lost so much power. The fact is that it never worked for us. However, our pitching staff is hugely improved, and our lineup will be leaner and faster. It will take some time for us as fans to get comfortable with it, but I think we'll grow to like it when we run away with the Central.
I completely agree with you. I couldn't have said it better myself.:smile:

eastchicagosoxfan
12-26-2004, 01:07 PM
I think the Sox must remain healthy. I realize there are question mark a-plenty out there, but if everyone is healthy, the pitching can carry the division. Hurt must be healthy at the start of the season and stay that way. He doesn't play well hurt, heck, he doesn't play hurt. When he's hurt, he sulks, and it rubs off on everyone. Last year, without Big Hurt and Maggs, the Sox competed for the division. If the best 8, and the staff remain healthy, the Sox will play more than 162.

johnny_mostil
12-26-2004, 01:35 PM
I think the Sox must remain healthy. I realize there are question mark a-plenty out there, but if everyone is healthy, the pitching can carry the division. Hurt must be healthy at the start of the season and stay that way. He doesn't play well hurt, heck, he doesn't play hurt. When he's hurt, he sulks, and it rubs off on everyone. Last year, without Big Hurt and Maggs, the Sox competed for the division. If the best 8, and the staff remain healthy, the Sox will play more than 162.
With Herm Schneider around they have a better chance than most.

Jabroni
12-26-2004, 02:10 PM
I am concerned mostly about Crede and Willie, more so about Joe. I like Willie as our #9 hitter but Crede needs to have a decent season.

mdep524
12-26-2004, 02:28 PM
Even Podsednik will hit 20 homers without trying.
Actually, I hope Pods doesn't get homer happy because he is moving to the Cell. He should only be concentrating on GETTING ON BASE- I would be happy if he hit 5 HRs all of next year, just get that OBP up!

Jabroni
12-26-2004, 02:32 PM
Actually, I hope Pods doesn't get homer happy because he is moving to the Cell. He should only be concentrating on GETTING ON BASE- I would be happy if he hit 5 HRs all of next year, just get that OBP up!In a radio interview, Podsednik said that he was trying to compensate for the lack of any power hitters on the Brewers last season. He said he is just going to try to get on base for us.

By the way, nice sig mdep524! :wink:

Whitesox029
12-26-2004, 03:22 PM
I completely agree with you. I couldn't have said it better myself.:smile: Thanks. I haven't been complimented on one of my posts in a long time.
:bandance:

kojak
12-27-2004, 02:11 AM
Well, the results seem to indicate that most folks feel we are an infielder short, and I agree. Harris needs pink-slipped; I don't even like him off the bench.

With very little left to choose from on the open market, I would like to see the Sox sign Rich Aurillia to play 2B and move Uribe to short. Aurillia seems to produce well when batting up in the order and if we can have him batting in front of Big Frank, perhaps he will get enough fastballs to return to his hitting form of 2-3 years ago.

The downside is that he is not a very swift baserunner, though he doesn't get stupid on the basepaths either. I think it would be a low-cost risk worth taking...

Jabroni
12-27-2004, 02:17 AM
Well, the results seem to indicate that most folks feel we are an infielder short, and I agree. Harris needs pink-slipped; I don't even like him off the bench.

With very little left to choose from on the open market, I would like to see the Sox sign Rich Aurillia to play 2B and move Uribe to short. Aurillia seems to produce well when batting up in the order and if we can have him batting in front of Big Frank, perhaps he will get enough fastballs to return to his hitting form of 2-3 years ago.

The downside is that he is not a very swift baserunner, though he doesn't get stupid on the basepaths either. I think it would be a low-cost risk worth taking...No thanks on Aurilia. He hit 37 homers in 2001 with the Giants and has done nothing since. I think he was roiding up right alongside Bonds. He reeks of a guy that juiced up, had a big season, and got off the juice when the MLB started steroid testing.

Rocklive99
12-27-2004, 02:32 AM
1. Tie between Infield Defense and Overall Offense
2. Closer

kojak
12-27-2004, 02:34 AM
No thanks on Aurilia. He hit 37 homers in 2001 with the Giants and has done nothing since. I think he was roiding up right alongside Bonds. He reeks of a guy that juiced up, had a big season, and got off the juice when the MLB started steroid testing.

Whatrya, goofy? :tongue:

There is absolutely no evidence of Aurillia juicing. He is physically the same as he has ever been. Although he certainly benefitted from batting in front of Bonds the year he hit 37 dingers. I don't think he will ever hit 37 again, but in a full season at The Cell he could easily hit 20 and knock in 65+ runs.

It is a no-brainer (and cheap) upgrade over Willie Harris.

OEO Magglio
12-27-2004, 03:13 AM
1. Tie between Infield Defense and Overall Offense
2. Closer
:?: Infield defense?? This is easily one of the better defensive infields in baseball.

maurice
12-27-2004, 01:02 PM
El Duque and Dye are coming off years where injuries are like a hanging cloud. If they are healthy and come through, the outlook improves greatly. If they don't, other weaknesses will be exposed. . . . Also just how injured is Frank Thomas? And how can he contribute when he returns?Agreed, which is why I voted "health." A Sox team with a healthy El Duque and Big Hurt is much, MUCH better than the alternative.

I'd also like a C and another IF who can play 2B and 3B. The guys we have at those positions are adequate defensively . . . but if (for example) Crede continues to fail, they can't afford to run him out there 150+ times because they have no adequate backup.

How strange that 3B has one of the lowest vote totals. :?:

Jabroni
12-27-2004, 01:10 PM
1. Tie between Infield Defense and Overall Offense
2. CloserInfield Defense? :?:

Crede, Uribe, Willie is the best infield defense we've had in a long time. Their offense is what you should worry about.

NonetheLoaiza
12-27-2004, 01:12 PM
I am going to hae to say overall team health because there are obviously concerns when it comes to El Duque, Carl Everett, Frank, etc. I think the key, as is a key with many teams is avoiding injury. If we stay healthy, I think we can definitely compete for the Central with the Twins and Indians.

chaz171
12-28-2004, 04:21 PM
My Biggest concern is that the season starts and we find out how bad this team really is.......

cubhater
12-28-2004, 10:27 PM
I am concerned mostly about Crede and Willie, more so about Joe. I like Willie as our #9 hitter but Crede needs to have a decent season.
I'm probably in the minority, but I think Crede will improve on last season. I'm hoping it was a sophmore jinx. He's got the glove.

I'd put Harris on a short leash. He's gotta be more patient, take more pitches, and learn how to use his speed. Here's :gulp: that Raines shows him how to steal bases!

MRKARNO
12-28-2004, 10:35 PM
1. The health of Frank Thomas. If he's healthy the whole year and playing like it, the White Sox will win a crapload of games this year.

2. Offense at catching position. I like Jamie Burke but I dont think he'll be given enough of a chance to prove himself and even if he does, he'll probably fail. Davis will be bad.

3. Jose Contreras's attitude against tough lineups. He always seems to lose against the better teams because he just starts walking far too many and he uses the splitter to set up more splitters instead of working off his fastball, like he should be doing.

4. The health of El Duque. If he's healthy like he says he is and he actually plays the whole year, we'll be in business. If not, we'll be in major trouble with the fifth starter craziness.

uribeisgod5
12-28-2004, 11:25 PM
Why doesnt KW give up on this guy already, i know crede is one of the best fielding 3rd basemen in the leauge, but i can hit better than him, my grandmother can hit better than him, and my 1year old sister can hit better than him. KW find a third baseman, PLEASE

Whitesox029
12-28-2004, 11:36 PM
Why doesnt KW give up on this guy already, i know crede is one of the best fielding 3rd basemen in the leauge, but i can hit better than him, my grandmother can hit better than him, and my 1year old sister can hit better than him. KW find a third baseman, PLEASE AMEN!...wait....last time I checked you don't have a 1 year old sister.....

bhayes520
01-11-2005, 04:02 PM
Why doesnt KW give up on this guy already, i know crede is one of the best fielding 3rd basemen in the leauge, but i can hit better than him, my grandmother can hit better than him, and my 1year old sister can hit better than him. KW find a third baseman, PLEASE
ya dude, for those of us who know you, that just killed your post, but im sure if you did have a 1 year old sister, she could hit better than mr. suckface, (his new name until he has a BA above .250)

chisox77
01-11-2005, 04:09 PM
There are times when Crede looks like he already struck out, before stepping into the batter's box.

PaulDrake
01-11-2005, 04:20 PM
My biggest concern is that come the end of the season, all of the complainers/KW haters/pessimists will be boasting that they were there all along when we win the division. I will be happy as a kid on Christmas Day if they win the division. I don't think this team is capable of doing much more than that, but if they do of course I'll celebrate. 48 years and counting makes it OK by me. I hope that's OK with you but if not....

Nick@Nite
01-11-2005, 04:23 PM
... 2B/SS is the one area where there's zero flexibility.

We have plenty of OF's. We have 2 quality catchers (sort of [Ben Davis]). There's good back up at both 3B & 1B (Gload). Our BP is solid and can help out if the starting rotation needs help (Hermanson). Hell, even the bench is OK. But if Willie and Uribe go down or tank, there's no real flexibility or back-up. Valdez isn't ready, and the lack of depth at those two positions could hurt the Sox big time.

Hangar18
01-11-2005, 04:41 PM
My biggest concern is that the Sox are taking chances like they do every year in the sense that they are hoping that certain players will return to past forms
My sentiments exactly. its ok to go into a season with a Question mark or 2.
But the SOX are hoping Jermaine Dye hits, Hoping Podsednik Hits. Those
are huge question marks right there. Also hoping all the Yankee rejects
all Rebound and have great years ......

konerko1413
01-11-2005, 05:13 PM
its gotta be overall team health, we have had a team the last three years that should not only takin 1st but sholda gone through to atleast the 2nd round of the playoffs, but injuries have always prevented us

CWSGuy406
01-11-2005, 05:18 PM
I voted other.

My biggest concern is actually our LF'er and leadoff hitter, Scott Podsednik. He's only had one good year, and he was always an average minor leaguer. Sure, the steals are nice, but the steals won't mean a darn thing unless he's on base at a .340 clip -- at the very least.

Our offense has shown one thing over the past couple years -- when the leadoff man is on base, our offense runs well. If Podsednik fails, we could be in for another long season...

bhayes520
01-11-2005, 05:20 PM
my biggest concern is seeing ross gload step into the outfield agian. i love the guy, but when maggs went down and they occasionaly sent him out there, i almost threw up. i am happy with him at first, and maybe at third, but NEVER in the outfield.

anyone know why former sox pitchers are suddenly a hot commodity (add schoney and baldwin to the growing list)

Daver
01-11-2005, 05:40 PM
Team defense.

The line-up as it sits now is not going to be the South Side Lumber Co. it has been in the past, and if anything, Kenny has made this team worse defensively. The Sox can no longer go into games hoping to score double digit runs for a victory, they are going to have to win by pitching and fielding better than the other team, on paper, this pitching staff is supposed to be good, but three of the five starters are question marks, and two of them have already shown a tendency to bow under pressure.

As far as the defense goes, infield defense is a concern, having downgraded at two positions, a pitching staff that has a hard time holding runners on first has been complemented by a catcher that throws no one out at second, and the outfield has a left fielder playing center, a rightfielder with a history of injury problems, and a left fielder that offers marginal defensive skill, and backs it up with little to no ability as a power hitter to make up for it.

Kenny did improve the bullpen, but that means little when you have a manager that does not use his pen well, or to his advantage, much like the way he uses his bench, you can have all the talent in the world, if you don't use it well you still end up an also ran.

Ol' No. 2
01-11-2005, 05:54 PM
Team defense.

The line-up as it sits now is not going to be the South Side Lumber Co. it has been in the past, and if anything, Kenny has made this team worse defensively. The Sox can no longer go into games hoping to score double digit runs for a victory, they are going to have to win by pitching and fielding better than the other team, on paper, this pitching staff is supposed to be good, but three of the five starters are question marks, and two of them have already shown a tendency to bow under pressure.

As far as the defense goes, infield defense is a concern, having downgraded at two positions, a pitching staff that has a hard time holding runners on first has been complemented by a catcher that throws no one out at second, and the outfield has a left fielder playing center, a rightfielder with a history of injury problems, and a left fielder that offers marginal defensive skill, and backs it up with little to no ability as a power hitter to make up for it.

Kenny did improve the bullpen, but that means little when you have a manager that does not use his pen well, or to his advantage, much like the way he uses his bench, you can have all the talent in the world, if you don't use it well you still end up an also ran.Daver, I just have to disagree. If anything, the team defense, IMO, is improved overall.

In the IF, only two positions have changed. I know you disagree, but I can't see how Uribe is not an upgrade over Valentin. Harris is prone to the occasional brain cramp, but I expect that to improve, and it's more than offset by a greater range compared with Uribe. I call it an improvement at both positions.

In the OF, we already HAD a LF with marginal defensive skills. Podsednik will at least have better range. And Dye is better defensively than Ordonez. So the OF is improved, too.

The only place where they've downgraded is catcher, which admittedly is an important position, but doesn't outweigh the improvements in the other positions.

Daver
01-11-2005, 06:17 PM
Daver, I just have to disagree. If anything, the team defense, IMO, is improved overall.

In the IF, only two positions have changed. I know you disagree, but I can't see how Uribe is not an upgrade over Valentin. Harris is prone to the occasional brain cramp, but I expect that to improve, and it's more than offset by a greater range compared with Uribe. I call it an improvement at both positions.

In the OF, we already HAD a LF with marginal defensive skills. Podsednik will at least have better range. And Dye is better defensively than Ordonez. So the OF is improved, too.

The only place where they've downgraded is catcher, which admittedly is an important position, but doesn't outweigh the improvements in the other positions.
SS is where you need a player with great range, not second. Uribe does not have the range Valentin did, he was better suited as a second baseman. Compound that with the fact that Willie is not going to be in position for a double play because he is trying to make a play on the ball,no matter where it is hit.

Dye has a better arm than Ordonez, but not much else, and if history is an example, you'll see Carl Everett out there for a chunk of the season while Dye is nursing owies. Carlos was a hack, but he at least grasped that fact and played every hitter at the warning track, nothing was ever hit over his head unless it was gone, Scott does not share that philosophy, and trust me, speed does not equate to range.

On top of all of that you have no field general, no one is out there to make a call based on the hitter, a role Valentin and Sandy Alomar shared in season's past, do you really think Joe Crede is ready to take that role, because no one else in the infield is capable of it.

Suffice it to say we will agree to disagree.

Ol' No. 2
01-12-2005, 12:55 PM
SS is where you need a player with great range, not second. Uribe does not have the range Valentin did, he was better suited as a second baseman. Compound that with the fact that Willie is not going to be in position for a double play because he is trying to make a play on the ball,no matter where it is hit.

Dye has a better arm than Ordonez, but not much else, and if history is an example, you'll see Carl Everett out there for a chunk of the season while Dye is nursing owies. Carlos was a hack, but he at least grasped that fact and played every hitter at the warning track, nothing was ever hit over his head unless it was gone, Scott does not share that philosophy, and trust me, speed does not equate to range.

On top of all of that you have no field general, no one is out there to make a call based on the hitter, a role Valentin and Sandy Alomar shared in season's past, do you really think Joe Crede is ready to take that role, because no one else in the infield is capable of it.

Suffice it to say we will agree to disagree.I don't see the range in Jose Valentin. He was particularly weak on anything to his right, which was exposed most brutally when they had Perry playing 3B. Once Crede took over at 3B he cut off a lot of balls Valentin would have botched. Also, Valentin's footwork was abysmal, which lead to a lot of his throwing errors. I like Uribe a lot better.

As for Dye, most of his injuries were of a freakish nature and not chronic-type injuries. I don't think getting his leg broken by a shinburger is necessarily likely to happen again. At least I hope not. The prospect of having Carlasauras playing RF doesn't make me warm all over.

I take your point about having a field general. The most likely prospect to fill that role is Pierzynski. I guess we'll see.

Flight #24
01-12-2005, 01:18 PM
I don't see the range in Jose Valentin. He was particularly weak on anything to his right, which was exposed most brutally when they had Perry playing 3B. Once Crede took over at 3B he cut off a lot of balls Valentin would have botched. Also, Valentin's footwork was abysmal, which lead to a lot of his throwing errors. I like Uribe a lot better.

As for Dye, most of his injuries were of a freakish nature and not chronic-type injuries. I don't think getting his leg broken by a shinburger is necessarily likely to happen again. At least I hope not. The prospect of having Carlasauras playing RF doesn't make me warm all over.

I take your point about having a field general. The most likely prospect to fill that role is Pierzynski. I guess we'll see.
FWIW from ESPN on 2004 stats:

Jose Valentin: RF-4.91 / ZR-.878 / FPct-.965
Juan Uribe(SS): RF-5.29 / ZR-.881 / FPct-.983

Also, career stats:
Maggs: RF - 2.2-2.3 / ZR-.870-.910
Dye: RF - Was in the 2.5+range, but last 3 years in the 1.75 range
ZR - .890-.910

Obviously these don't tell the whole tale.

Ol' No. 2
01-12-2005, 02:09 PM
FWIW from ESPN on 2004 stats:

Jose Valentin: RF-4.91 / ZR-.878 / FPct-.965
Juan Uribe(SS): RF-5.29 / ZR-.881 / FPct-.983

Also, career stats:
Maggs: RF - 2.2-2.3 / ZR-.870-.910
Dye: RF - Was in the 2.5+range, but last 3 years in the 1.75 range
ZR - .890-.910

Obviously these don't tell the whole tale.I'm not a big believer in range factors. In general, fielding stats are among the most useless, IMO. Carlos Lee had a 1.000 FPCT, but that doesn't make him a good fielder.

But if I watch a player enough, I can see he has difficulty with certain types of plays. Valentin is poor on anything to his right, where he tends to try to backhand rather than getting in front of the ball. And having played IF, I know the importance of good footwork, and he doesn't have it, which is why he sometimes has a hard time finding the handle on balls and why so many of his throws go wild. Maggs was weak going back to the wall, where he frequently found himself turned around the wrong way. Lee played everything so conservatively so as to not make an error that he allowed a lot of extra bases that a better fielder would not.

I obviously have not seen nearly as much of Dye and almost nothing of Podsednik, but from what I've seen of Dye he's a better fielder than Maggs. And Podsednik pretty much HAS to be better than Lee.

There aren't any Gold Glovers on this team, but I think they're at least average overall, and maybe a bit better than average.