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lowesox
12-24-2004, 10:16 AM
I hope the sox make a play for Cairo. Cora would be ok too, but a second choice for me. I actually think Kenny has done a really nice job this offseason (for the most part) and I'd hate to see us screw it up by not making acquiring the last piece. Harris and URibe up the middle with no viable alternative is way too risky.

34 Inch Stick
12-24-2004, 10:33 AM
I have a dilemma in my thinking. I would like to give Willie a serious look, but a the same time I think it would be foolish to not have a legitimate second baseman ready to go. I like the options that have been thrown around here. However, I think at this point we should go into a minor hibernation and then maybe we can do some bottom feeding in mid January. It seems like the supply of second basemen on the market exceeds the demand and we will get a very reasonable deal the later we wait. I would take the same approach to pitching. That RJ to the Yankees deal was too close for everyone to just walk away. If we take a hard line approach, maybe we can get Vazquez for only Garland, which would be fantastic.

johnny_mostil
12-24-2004, 10:45 AM
I hope the sox make a play for Cairo. Cora would be ok too, but a second choice for me.
Cairo is a second baseman only. Cora can play shortstop or second. That would seem to be a big advantage...

NowBatting19
12-24-2004, 10:54 AM
I agree, I want to see Willie get the starting job, but if we don't bring in some challenging player, it would be a mistake. I don't really want to see Cora, pardon my bias for Harris, but if Cora came in, I would assume that there would be "politics" going on with his brother there and ultimately Willie would take a back seat. I know a lot of you like Cora, as I do realize the "goods" he brings to the table, but I'm in Willie's corner for this one. None the less, Willie does need some one to challenge him, and I don't know what role the team sees Valdez playing. I would like to see him on the team this year, but how does he fit into the equation if another viable player is brought in. I still think somethings going to give.

PaleHoseGeorge
12-24-2004, 10:54 AM
Cairo is a second baseman only. Cora can play shortstop or second. That would seem to be a big advantage...
Is there anybody* out there that wouldn't be worthy of at least trying at second base over Willie Harris? The guy bats ninth, can't get on base, and can't steal a base even when he reaches base safely.

I'm serious. We've already slotted Gload/Burke and Crede at the bottom of our order. Can any option be worse than adding Willie Harris to the everyday line up's bottom-3 abyss?
:?:

* I'm speaking specifically of ballplayers with MLB experience only, not minor league prospects.

34rancher
12-24-2004, 10:56 AM
I say suit up Ozzie and Joey up the middle. They can't be that bad. :D:

mdep524
12-24-2004, 10:59 AM
If the Sox trade for Placido Polanco from the Phils, we'd turn 2B from a weakness into a strength by adding one of the best defensive 2Bs in the league and a perfect number two hitter in the line up. Since El Duque came much cheaper than Matt Clement, the Sox have the money to pay Polanco's ~$4 mil salary.

Get on the phone, KW!

Troupis
12-24-2004, 11:09 AM
Is there anybody* out there that wouldn't be worthy of at least trying at second base over Willie Harris? The guy bats ninth, can't get on base, and can't steal a base even when he reaches base safely. Thank you! You can't have someone as an everyday player who can not get extra base hits, let alone onto first.

Some Stats On Willie From Last Year To Back Me Up:
Extra Base Hits: 19
This works out to 4.02% of plate appearances he got an extra base hit.
AB/HR : 204.5

Lifetime OBP .305 - not his average - his OBP


HOWEVER - neither Cairo nor Cora are much more impressive though. We need to look elsewhere - or give Willie some of that clear cream stuff.

johnny_mostil
12-24-2004, 11:19 AM
Is there anybody* out there that wouldn't be worthy of at least trying at second base over Willie Harris? The guy bats ninth, can't get on base, and can't steal a base even when he reaches base safely.

Willie's OBP last season was .343, which isn't great but it doesn't exactly Hoover either. I'm not an officer in the Willie Harris fan club either. So far today I've seen the following players (OBP last year/lifetime in parentheses) proposed to replace Willie:

Placido (.345/.339) Polanco
Alex (.364/.314) Cora
Miguel (.346/.322) Cairo
Where's the improvement again? Here are the regular second sackers last season with OBPs at least 10 points higher than Willie:

Mark Bellhorn (.373)
Mark Loretta (.389)
Ray Durham (.362)
Jose Vidro (.364)
Marcus Giles (.376)
D'Angelo Jimenez (.362)
Luis Castillo (.370)
Alex Cora (.364)
Perhaps expecting to find a 2B with a repeatably high OBP just sitting around looking for a job is the problem?

PaleHoseGeorge
12-24-2004, 11:24 AM
...So far today I've seen the following players (OBP last year/lifetime in parentheses) proposed to replace Willie:


Placido (.345/.339) Polanco
Alex (.364/.314) Cora
Miguel (.346/.322) Cairo
Where's the improvement again? Here are the regular second sackers last season with OBPs at least 10 points higher than Willie:

Mark Bellhorn (.373)
Mark Loretta (.389)
Ray Durham (.362)
Jose Vidro (.364)
Marcus Giles (.376)
D'Angelo Jimenez (.362)
Luis Castillo (.370)
Alex Cora (.364)
Perhaps expecting to find a 2B with a repeatably high OBP just sitting around looking for a job is the problem?

Okay, so it's agreed. Alex Cora it is!
:wink:

jabrch
12-24-2004, 11:35 AM
If it were to be Harris' job, and he were to improve just slightly (lets say 10 pts in avg and 15 in obp?) would he then be worth keeping?

.272/.358 wouldn't be terrible, would it? I'm just not sure any of the available option have much likelihood of being better. Cora, for example, has 7 seasons in MLB, but only 2 where he hit over .250. His career obp is only .314. I'd think there is reason to believe (maybe naively) that Willie can at least replicate the numbers that Cora can produce.

SouthSideHitman
12-24-2004, 11:58 AM
I would take the same approach to pitching. That RJ to the Yankees deal was too close for everyone to just walk away. If we take a hard line approach, maybe we can get Vazquez for only Garland, which would be fantastic.
Maybe if Kenny gives Cashman a few :gulp: before negotiations. Vasquez isn't gonna happen without a big bat and Garland, bottom line.

As for Willie, I guess he's just about average for second basemen out there, given no Eckstein (who I liked for "intangibles", you might say), it probably doesn't make sense to get a new starting second basemen just for the sake of doing it. I guess I would say that if there's no one out there that strikes our fancy (maybe that Japanese 3B?), we should just hold on to the money so we can seriously reload in midseason next year when our needs are more apparent.

Troupis
12-24-2004, 12:06 PM
are there any shortstops?

Uribe can play 2nd.

johnny_mostil
12-24-2004, 12:17 PM
are there any shortstops?

Uribe can play 2nd.
None you want at this point. FA middle infielders left:

[Roberto Alomar]
Rich Aurelia
Miguel Cairo
Alex Cora
Mark Grudzielanek
Ricky Gutierrez
Barry Larkin
Ramon Martinez
Cody Ransom
Pokey Reese
Rey Sanchez
Luis Ugueto
Enrique Wilson
Yum, yum, other than the guys we're already talking about banquet of banality with a splash of vintage Old Overthehill '89.

johnny_mostil
12-24-2004, 12:21 PM
If it were to be Harris' job, and he were to improve just slightly (lets say 10 pts in avg and 15 in obp?) would he then be worth keeping?

"If wishes were horses... "

What if he declines just slightly, to say .335 obp .250 bavg? The Sox need an option, preferably one who plays both 2B and SS so they don't have to carry the replacement-level Wilson Valdez as their only utility man.

DickAllen72
12-24-2004, 12:23 PM
I don't really want to see Cora, pardon my bias for Harris, but if Cora came in, I would assume that there would be "politics" going on with his brother there and ultimately Willie would take a back seat.

Bingo!!!

Plus, Cora is slow and Willie's probably a better player anyway. If we do get anybody, it should be a trade for Polanco, but that would probably spell the end for Willie, because Polanco would statrt and the sox would need a utility infielder that could also play SS (Valdez). Unless maybe we can trade Crede for Polanco and Cash?

johnny_mostil
12-24-2004, 12:24 PM
Maybe if Kenny gives Cashman a few :gulp: before negotiations. Vasquez isn't gonna happen without a big bat and Garland, bottom line.

Vazquez isn't going anywhere without a $20,000,000 check stapled to his derriere. The problem with Javier isn't his performance, it's that The Boss gave him a contract that requires he pitch like Curt Schilling.

duke of dorwood
12-24-2004, 12:35 PM
I hope the sox make a play for Cairo. Cora would be ok too, but a second choice for me. I actually think Kenny has done a really nice job this offseason (for the most part) and I'd hate to see us screw it up by not making acquiring the last piece. Harris and URibe up the middle with no viable alternative is way too risky.
A real nice job of giving away major league talent
signing a Uribe for the $ that should have gone to Visquel.
No major league catcher
AND WILLIE HARRIS

OEO Magglio
12-24-2004, 12:44 PM
If it were to be Harris' job, and he were to improve just slightly (lets say 10 pts in avg and 15 in obp?) would he then be worth keeping?

.272/.358 wouldn't be terrible, would it? I'm just not sure any of the available option have much likelihood of being better. Cora, for example, has 7 seasons in MLB, but only 2 where he hit over .250. His career obp is only .314. I'd think there is reason to believe (maybe naively) that Willie can at least replicate the numbers that Cora can produce.
Willie had a .343 obp last year, believe it or not that isn't that bad. Willie isn't as bad a hitter as some make him out to be. Willie's a keeper if he learns to steal and bunt, imo. Willie is one of the best defensive 2nd baseman in the league and you'd think he'd still improve a bit at the plate, even if he doesn't, he's not that bad of a hitter. The things that are keeping him from being at the top of the order are his stealing and bunting ability. If he can improve on those things, don't be surprised at all to see him bat 2nd at some point this year, assuming we don't get another 2 bagger.

socko82
12-24-2004, 12:47 PM
What about this?


Yankees get: Randy Johnson

Sox get: Javier Vazquez
Julio Lugo

Tampa gets: Dioner Navarro
Eric Duncan
Shea Hillenbrand
Willie Harris
Joe Borchard

Arizona gets: Aubrey Huff
Jon Garland
Damaso Marte

DaleJRFan
12-24-2004, 12:58 PM
What about this?


Yankees get: Randy Johnson

Sox get: Javier Vazquez
Julio Lugo

Tampa gets: Dioner Navarro
Eric Duncan
Shea Hillenbrand
Willie Harris
Joe Borchard

Arizona gets: Aubrey Huff
Jon Garland
Damaso Marte
Any time anyone mentions Joe Borchard in a trade scenario, it should be in teal. And we shouldn't trade Marte.

FightingBillini
12-24-2004, 01:01 PM
I posted this in another thread, and I will post it again here. This is the scouting report on Cairo from ESPN.com:

SCOUTING REPORT FROM STATS INC.Miguel Cairo: Hitting, Baserunning & Defense
Cairo is a good fastball hitter who usually is aggressive early in counts, especially when serving as a pinch-hitter. Cairo's power is negligible. He has decent speed and good instincts on the bases. His best position is second, where he has good range and turns the double play well. However, Cairo can adequately play both short and third, and also has the ability to play left field without hurting his club. More... (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/scouting?statsId=5586)

GAMES BY POSITION | COMPLETE FIELDING (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/fielding?statsId=5586)1B: 1, 2B: 113, 3B: 8, SS: 3, PH: 2 QUICK SPLITS | COMPLETE SPLITS (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?statsId=5586)VS. LEFT: .336 / .822 VS. RIGHT: .267 / .730 HOME: .319 / .836 AWAY: .262 / .682
(Stats listed are batting average and OPS)
It says that he is a second baseman, but he can play all other positions in the infiled. He is very good defensively, and can turn the double play. The most important stat I see is the batting average against lefties - .336. If we get him and he doesn't play well, we could still have him play against lefties with Willie playing the other games. He would be a great pick up. Of course, the best possible solution is to trade for Polanco:


SCOUTING REPORT FROM STATS INC.Placido Polanco: Hitting
Polanco is a classic No. 2 hitter, but he was willing to lead off or bat further down in the order when asked. He not only has the ability to bunt or advance a runner by hitting to the right side, but he also can turn on a pitch. Best of all, he is intelligent enough to know which approach best suits the circumstances. He has become a more patient hitter, walking 42 times-also a career best. There simply aren't many holes in his swing, as evidenced by the fact that he struck out just once every 13 at-bats. More... (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/scouting?statsId=6049)

GAMES BY POSITION | COMPLETE FIELDING (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/fielding?statsId=6049)2B: 109, 3B: 13, PH: 8 QUICK SPLITS | COMPLETE SPLITS (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?statsId=6049)VS. LEFT: .327 / .858 VS. RIGHT: .287 / .757 HOME: .317 / .836 AWAY: .277 / .732
(Stats listed are batting average and OPS)

Polanco still kills lefties, but he hits a very respectable .287 against righties. He takes a good amount of walks, and never strikes out. He would hands down be the best 2B the Sox have had since Nellie Fox (and no, I'm not saying he is close to being as good as Nellie).

Kenny Williams... it's Christmas. Please find it in your heart to give to the needy fans of Chicago. Make this move. Acquire Polanco, a major league level second baseman. It would make your job a whole lot easier, and the team would win. Do it. NOW!

fquaye149
12-24-2004, 01:02 PM
A real nice job of giving away major league talent
signing a Uribe for the $ that should have gone to Visquel.
No major league catcher
AND WILLIE HARRIS
uribe was signed AFTER vizquel. The sticking point in the Vizquel deal was the extra year...

And I guarantee if Kenny had signed him for that extra year we would have heard the whining we have just heard in the el duque threads...

and ss WASN'T EVEN AS BIG A NEED as pitcher.

I can't believe you're going to go to the wall over vizquel.

fquaye149
12-24-2004, 01:05 PM
I posted this in another thread, and I will post it again here. This is the scouting report on Cairo from ESPN.com:


It says that he is a second baseman, but he can play all other positions in the infiled. He is very good defensively, and can turn the double play. The most important stat I see is the batting average against lefties - .336. If we get him and he doesn't play well, we could still have him play against lefties with Willie playing the other games. He would be a great pick up. Of course, the best possible solution is to trade for Polanco:


Polanco still kills lefties, but he hits a very respectable .287 against righties. He takes a good amount of walks, and never strikes out. He would hands down be the best 2B the Sox have had since Nellie Fox (and no, I'm not saying he is close to being as good as Nellie).

Kenny Williams... it's Christmas. Please find it in your heart to give to the needy fans of Chicago. Make this move. Acquire Polanco, a major league level second baseman. It would make your job a whole lot easier, and the team would win. Do it. NOW!
polanco's obp isn't that much an improvement over willie's last year...though i like the power numbers...

Really, I think he's a slight improvement...so if the price is right

but here's the real problem with polanco if you're into that type of thing - it's dadawg's stance - he hits high .200's,yes, but he takes about half as many walks as willie, except in 2003 when he had a decent amount. That makes his OBP of .343 more susceptible to fluctuation than Willie's...that is, if he's slumping he won't be getting on base.

FightingBillini
12-24-2004, 01:15 PM
What about this?


Yankees get: Randy Johnson

Sox get: Javier Vazquez
Julio Lugo

Tampa gets: Dioner Navarro
Eric Duncan
Shea Hillenbrand
Willie Harris
Joe Borchard

Arizona gets: Aubrey Huff
Jon Garland
Damaso Marte
How do I say this? :welcome: , but Im glad that you arent the GM. Lugo is an improvment over Willie Harris, but not enough of one to make that trade. This trade is comically bad. Marte's name should not be thrown around like this in trade rumors. Everyone needs to realize how good of a player he actually is. He had a bad year last year, and he was still among the best lefty relievers in baseball. Some of us have a tendency to fall into ESPN's trap, "since they dont mention Marte every second, he isnt that good". Like I have said before, Marte is great, and if he played on the Yankees everyone would talk about him like he was the next Mariano Rivera. We couldn't trade Marte unless we got enough money to not only find another good if not great lefty for the pen (good luck), but also got back enough money to get other players. It would only make sense to do this trade if the Yankees picked up $20mil, so we would be paying Vazquez each of the next 3 years what we pay Garland this year.

WhiteSoxAaron
12-24-2004, 01:20 PM
i think the trade would be a great trade we could use kelly wunsch in marte's pace yankees said they would take some of vazquez's contract.

WhiteSoxAaron
12-24-2004, 01:22 PM
is this trade a possibility i think it should be

Nick@Nite
12-24-2004, 01:31 PM
[Roberto Alomar]
Don't we have a moratorium for mentioning Robbie's name ever again? :D:

OEO Magglio
12-24-2004, 01:32 PM
i think the trade would be a great trade we could use kelly wunsch in marte's pace yankees said they would take some of vazquez's contract.
Kelly's in L.A.

FightingBillini
12-24-2004, 01:39 PM
polanco's obp isn't that much an improvement over willie's last year...though i like the power numbers...

Really, I think he's a slight improvement...so if the price is right

but here's the real problem with polanco if you're into that type of thing - it's dadawg's stance - he hits high .200's,yes, but he takes about half as many walks as willie, except in 2003 when he had a decent amount. That makes his OBP of .343 more susceptible to fluctuation than Willie's...that is, if he's slumping he won't be getting on base.Here is the biggest flaw in your assesment - Polanco is and everyday player. He kills lefties and hit righties very good. At this point in his career, Willie can't hit left handed pitching AT ALL. Willie's numbers this year came mostly against righties. If he becomes and everyday player, his numbers would be "droppin' like its hot".
Willie vs. lefties: 72 AB .181 AVG .224 OBP
Polanco vs. lefties: 147 AB .327 AVG .354 OBP
Willie only had 72 AB against lefties. Polanco had 147. That is more than double. If Willie would have had double the ABs against lefties, and the same against righties, his over all numbers would be:
.249 AVG .302 OBP. Would you like to have that in your lineup? I didn't think so.

Also, most hitters improve substantially going from the NL to AL. I believe that Polanco would not only raise his average, but take more walks.

kittle545feet
12-24-2004, 01:45 PM
I have a dilemma in my thinking. I would like to give Willie a serious look, but a the same time I think it would be foolish to not have a legitimate second baseman ready to go. I like the options that have been thrown around here. However, I think at this point we should go into a minor hibernation and then maybe we can do some bottom feeding in mid January. It seems like the supply of second basemen on the market exceeds the demand and we will get a very reasonable deal the later we wait. I would take the same approach to pitching. That RJ to the Yankees deal was too close for everyone to just walk away. If we take a hard line approach, maybe we can get Vazquez for only Garland, which would be fantastic. I am still surprised there are some who still think Willie deserves another look. We took a serious look at this bum last year and he showed he can't do anything. He brings nothing to the table. In fact, I would rather have the Sox call up a second baseman. They could not be any worse than the stain known as Willie Harris.:(:

jabrch
12-24-2004, 03:29 PM
Willie had a .343 obp last year, believe it or not that isn't that bad. Willie isn't as bad a hitter as some make him out to be. Willie's a keeper if he learns to steal and bunt, imo. Willie is one of the best defensive 2nd baseman in the league and you'd think he'd still improve a bit at the plate, even if he doesn't, he's not that bad of a hitter. The things that are keeping him from being at the top of the order are his stealing and bunting ability. If he can improve on those things, don't be surprised at all to see him bat 2nd at some point this year, assuming we don't get another 2 bagger.


I agree with you. He's not great - nobody is saying he is. But look at the options out there. If he shows modest improvement over last year (10 -15 pts) we'd be thrilled. I just remember last year at this time many people saying the same things about Rowand that they are now saying about Harris. He had a sub .300 obp in 2002. He had shown NO power. He was terrible in CF. He couldn't hit righties at all.... And look what happened to him?

I just don't know why it is so ridiculous to think that Willie Harris can play 2B for this team, or why it is such a sure thing that any of the available options would be any better.

The only one I like is Polanco, and he is liable to get a big chunk of change in his arbitration case with Philly. I'm not sure I'd want to pay 4mm+ for Polanco instead of something closer to 500,000 for Harris.

jabrch
12-24-2004, 03:31 PM
We took a serious look at this bum last year and he showed he can't do anything.

.262/.343 in 400 ABs? Come on Kittle - some objectivity here please. He can't do ANYTHING? There are a lot worse options than that - right?

lowesox
12-24-2004, 03:35 PM
I think the people defending Willie Harris are making some great points. And I, for one, would like to keep him around as part of this team. But what I'm afraid of is that we'll get cheap and decide to go with Harris and Uribe without a proven alternative. The thing with Harris is, that he's very inconsistent. Which, I think, is why everybody is surprsied at how high his numbers came out. He's red-hot one month and ice-cold the next. And given the NL-style this team is becoming, that's something we can't have.

I don't care if it's Polanco, Cairo or Cora - let's get one proven guy and address the rest of our needs at the All-star break.

jabrch
12-24-2004, 03:40 PM
I think the people defending Willie Harris are making some great points. And I, for one, would like to keep him around as part of this team. But what I'm afraid of is that we'll get cheap and decide to go with Harris and Uribe without a proven alternative. The thing with Harris is, that he's very inconsistent. Which, I think, is why everybody is surprsied at how high his numbers came out. He's red-hot one month and ice-cold the next. And given the NL-style this team is becoming, that's something we can't have.

I don't care if it's Polanco, Cairo or Cora - let's get one proven guy and address the rest of our needs at the All-star break.

serious question lowe...how proven are Cora and Cairo? I mean - both of their career numbers are notably worse than Harris'. I guess I see what you mean about wanting options, on the big league club, in case (and there is a realistic possibility that) Harris fails. I just don't know that any of those guys is any better than Harris.

Cairo doesn't hit righties. Harris can't hit lefties. Maybe that is the solution - a Cairo/Harris platoon?

FightingBillini
12-24-2004, 04:18 PM
serious question lowe...how proven are Cora and Cairo? I mean - both of their career numbers are notably worse than Harris'. I guess I see what you mean about wanting options, on the big league club, in case (and there is a realistic possibility that) Harris fails. I just don't know that any of those guys is any better than Harris.

Cairo doesn't hit righties. Harris can't hit lefties. Maybe that is the solution - a Cairo/Harris platoon?
Actually, their career numbers are better than Harris' in both cases. I want Polanco, but Cairo is the next best option. If it comes to platooning, I think it would still be worth it to sign Cairo. He hit .267 against righties. that is only 14 points lower than Willie did. He crushed lefties, however. He is a much better player than Harris. If you want to argue that last year was a fluke, thats one thing, but dont argue that Harris was somehow a better player than him last year.

jabrch
12-24-2004, 04:28 PM
Actually, their career numbers are better than Harris' in both cases. I want Polanco, but Cairo is the next best option. If it comes to platooning, I think it would still be worth it to sign Cairo. He hit .267 against righties. that is only 14 points lower than Willie did. He crushed lefties, however. He is a much better player than Harris. If you want to argue that last year was a fluke, thats one thing, but dont argue that Harris was somehow a better player than him last year.

I don't think I was arguing that Harris was a better player. I will say that hitting 9th in the Yankee order, and having his numbers so skewed in favor of hitting lefties over righties would make them a good platoon.

I don't know who is a better player - between Harris and Cairo. I don't think there is significant evidence either way. Certainly not if you look at their "body of work". I think they'd make a fine platoon. But you prove that Cairo is better than Harris anymore than I'd try and tell you that Harris is better than Cairo. Both are flawed players - and should probably be platooning.


*I guess you could argue tat Cairo is 31 while Harris is 27 - and Harris has more potential upside - but that's a weakass arguement at best.

maurice
12-27-2004, 01:41 PM
IIRC, Lugo was cut by the Astros for being a total head case. He's definitely got talent, though.

Jabroni
12-27-2004, 01:48 PM
IIRC, Lugo was cut by the Astros for being a total head case. He's definitely got talent, though.Lugo was waived after beating his wife...

"Astros' Lugo arrested, charged with assaulting wife"
http://cgi2.sportsline.com/mlb/story/6346939
HOUSTON -- Houston Astros shortstop Julio Lugo was demoted Thursday, hours after he was arrested and charged with hitting his wife in the face and slamming her head on a car hood.

Lugo was arrested after Wednesday night's game at Minute Maid Park. Lugo was freed on $50,000 bond Thursday after spending the night in jail. Lugo's wife, Mabel, was treated for minor injuries at a hospital and released.

She said she was attacked by her husband Wednesday afternoon before Houston's 11-1 loss to the Atlanta Braves, Houston police spokeswoman Silvia Trevino said Thursday.

The Astros designated Lugo for assignment Thursday, meaning they have 10 days to release, trade or send him to the minors.

"It's a difficult issue for the player to try to work through as well as the organization and the pressure and tremendous scrutiny," general manager Gerry Hunsicker said.

"We felt it was in Julio's best interest and in the best interest of the organization to put this situation behind us as quickly as possible and let Julio get on with his career elsewhere."

Slow Mike
12-27-2004, 10:56 PM
From what I remember, Harris' stats were significantly better when he hit in the 9 spot. Anyone have the splits for those?

Foulke29
12-28-2004, 10:06 AM
Marcus Giles (.376)

D'Angelo Jimenez (.362)

Why in the world did we just dump Jimenez - I'm serious. Why?

gosox41
12-28-2004, 11:35 AM
Why in the world did we just dump Jimenez - I'm serious. Why?
IMHO, that guy was one of the dumbest players I've seen.



Bob

mdep524
12-28-2004, 11:37 AM
IMHO, that guy was one of the dumbest players I've seen.

And his defense was God awful. He had literally the worst range of ANY infielder I've ever seen play with my own eyes. Very frustrating.

OEO Magglio
12-28-2004, 11:39 AM
Why in the world did we just dump Jimenez - I'm serious. Why?
Cause he sucks. He's the dummest player I've ever seen in my life and I'd take willie harris over him any day of the week. D'angelo hurts your team more then he helps.

socko82
12-28-2004, 06:18 PM
Lugo was waived after beating his wife...

"Astros' Lugo arrested, charged with assaulting wife"
http://cgi2.sportsline.com/mlb/story/6346939

I believe all charges were eventually dropped and his wife admitted she made up the charges.