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View Full Version : Who Has the best 1-2-3 Pitching Staff?


SoxFan48
12-23-2004, 10:12 AM
Inteesting article by Rob Neyer on ESPN.com:

http://proxy.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?id=1951124

Guess what? It's the Twins.

HomeFish
12-23-2004, 10:19 AM
If we restrict ourselves to just the AL, then I agree, it is the Twins.

Frater Perdurabo
12-23-2004, 10:20 AM
The use of SQRT, or "square root," is completely meaningless in the game of baseball. Square roots are mathematical concepts. It's just another way to manipulate numbers to make any argument work.

Only three numbers really matter. First, score more runs in a game than your opponent. Second, win the most games in your division. Third, win 11 games in the post-season.

:bandance:

PaleHoseGeorge
12-23-2004, 10:27 AM
Haven't we all long ago established that Rob Neyer is the biggest know-nothing in all of sports journalism?
:?:

kittle42
12-23-2004, 10:30 AM
Prior, Zambrano, and Wood though it pains me to say it.

SoxFan48
12-23-2004, 10:34 AM
Yes, but what is the best way to score more runs, to win more games than your division rivals and to win 11 games in the playoffs? That is what statisical analysis is bringing to baseball and if you do not believe me witness the success of the Oakland A's on a budget smaller than the White Sox and the World Series victory of the Red Sox. Bill Beane and Theo Epstein do know how to calculate a square root and more importantly what it means.

Jjav829
12-23-2004, 10:43 AM
Yes, but what is the best way to score more runs, to win more games than your division rivals and to win 11 games in the playoffs? That is what statisical analysis is bringing to baseball and if you do not believe me witness the success of the Oakland A's on a budget smaller than the White Sox and the World Series victory of the Red Sox. Bill Beane and Theo Epstein do know how to calculate a square root and more importantly what it means.
And how exactly did the ability to calculate square roots tell Theo Epstein that trading for Curt Schilling and signing Keith Foulke would tremendously increase your chances of winning the World Series? You wanna give Epstein credit for something, credit him for convincing Schilling to accept a trade to Boston or for getting the Foulke signing done. Otherwise, I did about as much to help the Red Sox win the World Series as Theo did.

TommyJohn
12-23-2004, 10:45 AM
Haven't we all long ago established that Rob Neyer is the biggest no-nothing in all of sports journalism?
:?::moron :clueless :boston :ass


Did we???

SoxFan48
12-23-2004, 10:55 AM
I will tell you exactly how Theo Epstein helped Boston win the World Series. He picked up discards such as David Ortiz, Kevin Milnar and Mark Bellhorn (all of whom had deficiencies) and turned their high OBP and SLG averages into real weapons in the BoSox offense. Yes, my friend, Theo did make a difference.

Jabroni
12-23-2004, 10:57 AM
If we restrict ourselves to just the AL, then I agree, it is the Twins.What #3 pitcher do the Twins have that's any good? :dunno:

PaleHoseGeorge
12-23-2004, 11:04 AM
What #3 pitcher do the Twins have that's any good? :dunno:
Carlos Silva posted a 4.21 ERA while winning 14 games, and he was only third-best on his own staff.

The more you look at what KW and Ozzie ran out to the mound in 2004, the more you understand why that team struggled to stay above .500.

My God... Jason Grilli got EIGHT starts with a 7.40 ERA... and that's better than Wright, Munoz, and Stewart who collectively got 8 starts, too.

Brutal... positively brutal...

Jjav829
12-23-2004, 03:44 PM
I will tell you exactly how Theo Epstein helped Boston win the World Series. He picked up discards such as David Ortiz, Kevin Milnar and Mark Bellhorn (all of whom had deficiencies) and turned their high OBP and SLG averages into real weapons in the BoSox offense. Yes, my friend, Theo did make a difference.Ok, you're right on that. I had my timeline messed up as to when Epstein took office. Nonetheless, Millar was pretty highly thought of among many baseball people, as was Ortiz. It's not like these two guys were absolute nobodies who Theo gave a chance because he saw something in them that no one else saw. When the Twins cut Ortiz plenty of people were surprised and thought very highly of him. The Red Sox just happened to win the battle for him. Millar's case was similar, though to a bit lesser extent.

SoxFan48
12-23-2004, 05:03 PM
At the time Millar signed with the Red Sox, he had already waived out of the majors and has signed in Japan. Remember the controversy over getting out of the Japan deal?

David Ortiz signed a one year deal for $550,000. Both were Millar and Ortiz were there for the taking for a good GM.

Here is a trade. Kenny Williams for Theo Epstein straight up. How many would make the trade?

whitesoxwilkes
12-23-2004, 05:08 PM
Prior, Zambrano, and Wood though it pains me to say it.
I hate to say it too, but I'd put them at the top, and then the now dissolved triumvirate of Zito/Mulder/Hudson just behind them.

Hopefully I have to eat my words by about June of 2005.:bandance:

NSSoxFan2
12-23-2004, 05:09 PM
Haven't we all long ago established that Rob Neyer is the biggest know-nothing in all of sports journalism?
:?:
I know I have, I guess some other posters here on WSI just haven't yet. I've been reading his articles for years and nothing that he writes has ever made much sense to me.

OurBitchinMinny
12-23-2004, 05:09 PM
Haven't we all long ago established that Rob Neyer is the biggest know-nothing in all of sports journalism?
:?:
Hes bad, but Id have to put gammons and vitale ahead of him in ineptitude

Rocklive99
12-23-2004, 05:54 PM
I couldn't read it, insider only :(

Fire Kenny
12-23-2004, 06:18 PM
Haven't we all long ago established that Rob Neyer is the biggest know-nothing in all of sports journalism?
:?:
Know nothing? He's up there with Bill James and Voros McCrackin when it comes to knowing baseball.

Foulke You
12-23-2004, 06:19 PM
I hate to say it too, but I'd put them at the top, and then the now dissolved triumvirate of Zito/Mulder/Hudson just behind them.

Hopefully I have to eat my words by about June of 2005.:bandance:
Yes, soon they will be talking about Garcia, Buehrle, and El Duque as "The New Big 3" in the AL.:gulp:

ilsox7
12-23-2004, 06:46 PM
Y'know, stats have some place in baseball. But when I see this: SQRT((3*(S1WS*S2WS*S3WS))/(S1WS+S2WS+S2WS)) it makes me puke.

Whatever that is is the sign of someone who sucked during Little League and needed some way to be involved in baseball. It's just gotten to the point where it's beyond ridiculous. Can stats measure Schilling pitching thru an injured ankle? How many "win shares" was that one worth. Or what about Dave Roberts' stolen base in Game 4? Was that worth a pennant and a Series to statheads out there?

See, some things simply cannot be measured.

Then of course, as ANY good statistician can tell you, any set of data can be manipulated to tell any story you'd like.