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View Full Version : Comparisons in Vickery's column


mjharrison72
12-20-2004, 02:21 PM
I just got finished reading the new column, and I have to say I agree with a lot of points, especially that we have a glaring fifth-starter hole. However, what I get tired of seeing is comparisons between players' best seasons and worst seasons. Let me explain: Hal refers to Jermaine Dye as "fragile" and says he won't be able to replace Maggs in the OF. I know Maggs had a great career witht eh Sox and his bat will clearly be missed next year, unless we had signed Beltran or a similarly high-priced FA. But the fact of the matter is, Maggs hit 9 HR last year and drove in 37 in 52 games. Dye hit 23 HR and drove in 80. Hal is comparing Maggs at the top of his game, during the 2002 and 2003 seasons, with Dye's performance in injury-riddled seasons the past few years.
Nobody is really claiming Dye is going to replace Maggs, offensively or defensively. But for the money, when the alternatives are making a risky and expensive FA signing or starting a platoon of Everett, Perez and Borchard in the OF, I think the Dye signing makes sense. What is puzzling, however, is that Hal doesn't point out Dye's lack of speed or poor OBP the last few seasons.
As far as Podsednik goes, he's a clear defensive improvement over Lee, which Hal also fails to acknowledge, though he does point out Pods has been inconsistent in his ability to reach base in his first two seasons. I think Pods will work out well for the Sox, and I think it's far too early to cry foul on these trades, save for one glaring fact: the Sox still have no fifth starter.
Anyway, interesting views, I just think the team that signs Maggs is going to be taking a huge risk, and I had to say something about the comparison between the injury-riddled Dye and a totally healthy Maggs.

Hangar18
12-20-2004, 03:30 PM
[QUOTE=mjharrison72] But the fact of the matter is, Maggs hit 9 HR last year and drove in 37 in 52 games.

QUOTE]

Not to get off subject here, but does anyone else here see the Irony
in all of this? Uncle Jerry needs a new Lexus, and Ray Durhams pending
FreeAgency status is clearly in the way, so we pick up a much much Cheaper
Willie Harris, who really isnt a starting 2b, and its Willie who misjudges a
fly to right, causing him to Collide with Magglio and ............well,
lets just say the Baseball Gods can be swift when serving Justice to Uncle Jerry.

voodoochile
12-20-2004, 03:33 PM
Not to get off subject here, but does anyone else here see the Irony in all of this? Uncle Jerry needs a new Lexus, and Ray Durhams pending FreeAgency status is clearly in the way, so we pick up a much much Cheaper Willie Harris, who really isnt a starting 2b, and its Willie who misjudges a fly to right, causing him to Collide with Magglio and ............well,
lets just say the Baseball Gods can be swift when serving Justice to Uncle Jerry.
You had me... then you lost me...

That one was extreme even for you Henry...:rolleyes:

Mickster
12-20-2004, 03:33 PM
[QUOTE=mjharrison72] But the fact of the matter is, Maggs hit 9 HR last year and drove in 37 in 52 games.

QUOTE]

Not to get off subject here, but does anyone else here see the Irony
in all of this? Uncle Jerry needs a new Lexus, and Ray Durhams pending
FreeAgency status is clearly in the way, so we pick up a much much Cheaper
Willie Harris, who really isnt a starting 2b, and its Willie who misjudges a
fly to right, causing him to Collide with Magglio and ............well,
lets just say the Baseball Gods can be swift when serving Justice to Uncle Jerry.
:?: What????

Ol' No. 2
12-20-2004, 03:36 PM
Not to get off subject here, but does anyone else here see the Irony
in all of this? Uncle Jerry needs a new Lexus, and Ray Durhams pending
FreeAgency status is clearly in the way, so we pick up a much much Cheaper
Willie Harris, who really isnt a starting 2b, and its Willie who misjudges a
fly to right, causing him to Collide with Magglio and ............well,
lets just say the Baseball Gods can be swift when serving Justice to Uncle Jerry.I must really need a vacation. I actually followed this.

FarWestChicago
12-20-2004, 04:32 PM
Not to get off subject here, but does anyone else here see the Irony
in all of this? Uncle Jerry needs a new Lexus, and Ray Durhams pending
FreeAgency status is clearly in the way, so we pick up a much much Cheaper
Willie Harris, who really isnt a starting 2b, and its Willie who misjudges a
fly to right, causing him to Collide with Magglio and ............well,
lets just say the Baseball Gods can be swift when serving Justice to Uncle Jerry.One word: thorazine

benjamin
12-20-2004, 06:21 PM
[QUOTE=mjharrison72] But the fact of the matter is, Maggs hit 9 HR last year and drove in 37 in 52 games.

QUOTE]

Not to get off subject here, but does anyone else here see the Irony
in all of this? Uncle Jerry needs a new Lexus, and Ray Durhams pending
FreeAgency status is clearly in the way, so we pick up a much much Cheaper
Willie Harris, who really isnt a starting 2b, and its Willie who misjudges a
fly to right, causing him to Collide with Magglio and ............well,
lets just say the Baseball Gods can be swift when serving Justice to Uncle Jerry.Sure.

Except of course that Durham has lived on the Disabled List himself since he left the south side and, even had we kept Durham, the trade for Willie probably would have still happened and Willie would have still been out there at 2B because Durham would have been on the DL already.

TommyJohn
12-20-2004, 06:51 PM
[QUOTE=mjharrison72] But the fact of the matter is, Maggs hit 9 HR last year and drove in 37 in 52 games.

QUOTE]

Not to get off subject here, but does anyone else here see the Irony
in all of this? Uncle Jerry needs a new Lexus, and Ray Durhams pending
FreeAgency status is clearly in the way, so we pick up a much much Cheaper
Willie Harris, who really isnt a starting 2b, and its Willie who misjudges a
fly to right, causing him to Collide with Magglio and ............well,
lets just say the Baseball Gods can be swift when serving Justice to Uncle Jerry.
It's over. Hangar has officially lost it. This one ranks right up there with the
time Rick Telander whined that Babe Ruth catching Leo Durocher stealing cost the Cubs the 1969 pennant. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

munchman33
12-20-2004, 06:55 PM
[QUOTE=mjharrison72] But the fact of the matter is, Maggs hit 9 HR last year and drove in 37 in 52 games.

QUOTE]

Not to get off subject here, but does anyone else here see the Irony
in all of this? Uncle Jerry needs a new Lexus, and Ray Durhams pending
FreeAgency status is clearly in the way, so we pick up a much much Cheaper
Willie Harris, who really isnt a starting 2b, and its Willie who misjudges a
fly to right, causing him to Collide with Magglio and ............well,
lets just say the Baseball Gods can be swift when serving Justice to Uncle Jerry.
That would have made more sense if we'd have resigned Gagglio.

TornLabrum
12-20-2004, 07:21 PM
I just got finished reading the new column, and I have to say I agree with a lot of points, especially that we have a glaring fifth-starter hole. However, what I get tired of seeing is comparisons between players' best seasons and worst seasons. Let me explain: Hal refers to Jermaine Dye as "fragile" and says he won't be able to replace Maggs in the OF. I know Maggs had a great career witht eh Sox and his bat will clearly be missed next year, unless we had signed Beltran or a similarly high-priced FA. But the fact of the matter is, Maggs hit 9 HR last year and drove in 37 in 52 games. Dye hit 23 HR and drove in 80. Hal is comparing Maggs at the top of his game, during the 2002 and 2003 seasons, with Dye's performance in injury-riddled seasons the past few years.
Nobody is really claiming Dye is going to replace Maggs, offensively or defensively. But for the money, when the alternatives are making a risky and expensive FA signing or starting a platoon of Everett, Perez and Borchard in the OF, I think the Dye signing makes sense. What is puzzling, however, is that Hal doesn't point out Dye's lack of speed or poor OBP the last few seasons.
As far as Podsednik goes, he's a clear defensive improvement over Lee, which Hal also fails to acknowledge, though he does point out Pods has been inconsistent in his ability to reach base in his first two seasons. I think Pods will work out well for the Sox, and I think it's far too early to cry foul on these trades, save for one glaring fact: the Sox still have no fifth starter.
Anyway, interesting views, I just think the team that signs Maggs is going to be taking a huge risk, and I had to say something about the comparison between the injury-riddled Dye and a totally healthy Maggs.
A few points:

1) I discussed the potential home runs that Ordonez, Lee, and Valentin might hit that the Sox gave up. This assumes that that Magglio is able to regain his former abilities in 2005. I also pointed out the number of home runs that Dye and Podsednik have the potential of hitting. This assumes that Dye doesn't go on the DL for an extended time again this year. You have to compare the players as they might be in a full season since injuries can't be predicted. You can't compare players in seasons where they spent unequal periods on the DL.

2) Maggs was a lousy baserunner. This counteracts Dye's lack of speed and OBP to some extent. Put him in the middle of the lineup with Everett or Frank and Pauly and you still have three guys clogging the basepaths.

3) You're wrong. I just reread the article again, and I did mention that Podsednik is a better fielder than Lee. Unfortunately you lose all that offensive production in trading a high OBP + SLG guy for a low one.