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Troupis
12-17-2004, 11:32 PM
From:

LAST YEAR OFFSEASON:

Rowand
Valentin
Ordonez
Thomas
Konerko
CLee
Uribe
Crede
Alomar/Olivo

TO:

THIS YEAR AS OF NOW:

Pods
Rowand
Thomas
Konerko
Dye
Uribe
Crede
Burke/Davis
Harris

Big Bats: Only 2 (Thomas & Konerko)
Mediocre Hitters: 3 (Rowand?, Dye and maybe Pods)
Almost AAA: 2 (Uribe, Crede)
AAA: 2 (Burke, Harris)
Pitcher/AA: 1 (Davis)

No pitcher will have any trouble pitching around this lineup.

Jabroni
12-17-2004, 11:36 PM
Big Bats: Only 2 (Thomas & Konerko)
Mediocre Hitters: 3 (Rowand?, Dye and maybe Pods)
Almost AAA: 2 (Uribe, Crede)
AAA: 2 (Burke, Harris)
Pitcher/AA: 1 (Davis)

No pitcher will have any trouble pitching around this lineup.Whaaa? Uribe hit as well as Edgar Renteria last season and Rowand tore it up as well...

Juan Uribe (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=346874)
.283 AVG
.327 OBP
23 HR
74 RBI

Aaron Rowand (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=400023)
.310 AVG
.361 OBP
24 HR
69 RBI

Also, Jermaine Dye had a decent year considering he was playing with a broken thumb for much of the second half of the season...

Jermaine Dye (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=113679)
.265 AVG
.329 OBP
23 HR
80 RBI

Whatchoo talkin' bout, Willis??? :?:

fquaye149
12-17-2004, 11:36 PM
:dtroll:

or genius?

you decide.

ondafarm
12-17-2004, 11:40 PM
Big Bats: Only 2 (Thomas & Konerko)
Mediocre Hitters: 3 (Rowand?, Dye and maybe Pods)
Almost AAA: 2 (Uribe, Crede)
AAA: 2 (Burke, Harris)
Pitcher/AA: 1 (Davis)

I disagree with several of these assessments. Also, pitchers do not hit in AA ball.

Troupis
12-17-2004, 11:48 PM
Everyone always goes back and forth on the potential/ability of: Crede, Uribe, Harris, Rowand, Davis & Burke in these forums. But, my main point is that last year our lineup was feared and this year if a pitcher gets past Konerko our lineup is not of everyday major-league caliber.

I assume the AA/pitcher thing was taken as a simple joke on his usual hitting reputation. I was in no way asserting that he hit like a pitcher at AA; although that would have been funnier.

ondafarm
12-18-2004, 12:08 AM
I assume the AA/pitcher thing was taken as a simple joke on his usual hitting reputation. I was in no way asserting that he hit like a pitcher at AA; although that would have been funnier.
My mistake.

OG4LIFE
12-18-2004, 12:15 AM
OOPS!

lets just completely forget about what our rotation looked like last year, and what it looks like now:

last year:
burls
loiaza
garland
shoney
<insert #5 here>

this year
garcia
burls
garland
contreras
<FA signing soon to come>

relax with your trollish nonsense.

SEALgep
12-18-2004, 12:39 AM
Everyone always goes back and forth on the potential/ability of: Crede, Uribe, Harris, Rowand, Davis & Burke in these forums. But, my main point is that last year our lineup was feared and this year if a pitcher gets past Konerko our lineup is not of everyday major-league caliber.

I assume the AA/pitcher thing was taken as a simple joke on his usual hitting reputation. I was in no way asserting that he hit like a pitcher at AA; although that would have been funnier.Feared? While some days we could put the fear into any pitcher in the league with those mashers, other days we made guys who were making their debut look like the next coming. I prefer the shake up to get some consistency and speed to manufacture some runs. Fear is overrated, I'm looking for efficientcy.

Nellie_Fox
12-18-2004, 12:44 AM
But, my main point is that last year our lineup was feared and this year if a pitcher gets past Konerko our lineup is not of everyday major-league caliber.And where has that fearsome lineup gotten us? Time to try another approach. What we have had was a station-to-station team waiting for the three-run homer. Poor baserunning, mediocre defense.

I know that it's sacrilege to say so, but there is more to baseball than homeruns.

OEO Magglio
12-18-2004, 12:50 AM
Feared? While some days we could put the fear into any pitcher in the league with those mashers, other days we made guys who were making their debut look like the next coming. I prefer the shake up to get some consistency and speed to manufacture some runs. Fear is overrated, I'm looking for efficientcy.
Great post Seal, I completely agree.

dcb33
12-18-2004, 12:53 AM
OOPS!

lets just completely forget about what our rotation looked like last year, and what it looks like now:

last year:
burls
loiaza
garland
shoney
<insert #5 here>

this year
garcia
burls
garland
contreras
<FA signing soon to come>

relax with your trollish nonsense.
Whatever happened to Dan Wright? God he was awful...

Jabroni
12-18-2004, 01:01 AM
Whatever happened to Dan Wright? God he was awful...We just released him. :wink:

Jerome
12-18-2004, 02:07 AM
And where has that fearsome lineup gotten us? Time to try another approach. What we have had was a station-to-station team waiting for the three-run homer. Poor baserunning, mediocre defense.

I know that it's sacrilege to say so, but there is more to baseball than homeruns.


Poor baserunning and defense weren't the main reason for our troubles last year. What we needed was a capable high-OBP leadoff man who would make all those solo shots more meaningful. (Remember how unstoppable this team was in June 04 when both Harris AND Uribe were at the top getting on base a ton?


And I don't recall our defense losing more than a few games for us last year. (Gload against the Cubs is all that I can remember.) I agree with you labeling the D as mediocore, but don't think that mediocore defense is the reason the twins beat us by ten or whatever games last year. It's not like in football or Basketball; Defense in baseball isn't the most important thing to winnin a championship.


A high OBP leadoff man would cure a lot of this team's offensive ills.
And now we have one.

Pea-Pod
12-18-2004, 02:56 AM
Poor baserunning and defense weren't the main reason for our troubles last year. What we needed was a capable high-OBP leadoff man who would make all those solo shots more meaningful. (Remember how unstoppable this team was in June 04 when both Harris AND Uribe were at the top getting on base a ton?


And I don't recall our defense losing more than a few games for us last year. (Gload against the Cubs is all that I can remember.) I agree with you labeling the D as mediocore, but don't think that mediocore defense is the reason the twins beat us by ten or whatever games last year. It's not like in football or Basketball; Defense in baseball isn't the most important thing to winnin a championship.


A high OBP leadoff man would cure a lot of this team's offensive ills.
And now we have one.


Yea I agree that our defense was not the issue. I mean, our pitchers gave up the second most homeruns in baseball, 224. only 127 of which were at home, so its not just our ballpark. And last I checked its kinda hard to defend against the homerun. Our pitchers gave up an OPS that was 3rd to last in the league. So below average pitching + and incosistent offense = a team that hovers around .500.

Nellie_Fox
12-18-2004, 03:05 AM
It's really hard to tell when bad defense costs you. You can't just look at the inning in which it happens; the extra pitches that the pitcher has to throw to get out of the inning can cost you later in the game, get you deeper into the bullpen, can cost you the next day.

Jerome
12-18-2004, 11:42 AM
It's really hard to tell when bad defense costs you. You can't just look at the inning in which it happens; the extra pitches that the pitcher has to throw to get out of the inning can cost you later in the game, get you deeper into the bullpen, can cost you the next day.


I think you are right, but there is absolutely no way to measure this. That's why it's foolish to make defense your number one priority in an offseason, as we have done thus far.

OUR DEFENSE WASN'T THE MAIN PROBLEM LAST YEAR KW!

OG4LIFE
12-18-2004, 11:45 AM
Poor baserunning and defense weren't the main reason for our troubles last year. What we needed was a capable high-OBP leadoff man who would make all those solo shots more meaningful. (Remember how unstoppable this team was in June 04 when both Harris AND Uribe were at the top getting on base a ton?


And I don't recall our defense losing more than a few games for us last year. (Gload against the Cubs is all that I can remember.) I agree with you labeling the D as mediocore, but don't think that mediocore defense is the reason the twins beat us by ten or whatever games last year. It's not like in football or Basketball; Defense in baseball isn't the most important thing to winnin a championship.


A high OBP leadoff man would cure a lot of this team's offensive ills.
And now we have one.
valentin dropping that foul ball, against the A's i believe....

Fredsox
12-18-2004, 11:52 AM
And where has that fearsome lineup gotten us? Time to try another approach. What we have had was a station-to-station team waiting for the three-run homer. Poor baserunning, mediocre defense.

I know that it's sacrilege to say so, but there is more to baseball than homeruns.
Word up.

Dadawg_77
12-18-2004, 12:19 PM
Poor baserunning and defense weren't the main reason for our troubles last year. What we needed was a capable high-OBP leadoff man who would make all those solo shots more meaningful. (Remember how unstoppable this team was in June 04 when both Harris AND Uribe were at the top getting on base a ton?


And I don't recall our defense losing more than a few games for us last year. (Gload against the Cubs is all that I can remember.) I agree with you labeling the D as mediocore, but don't think that mediocore defense is the reason the twins beat us by ten or whatever games last year. It's not like in football or Basketball; Defense in baseball isn't the most important thing to winnin a championship.


A high OBP leadoff man would cure a lot of this team's offensive ills.
And now we have one.

According to the numbers the White Sox D was better then average, http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=3610. Converting 0.292% of balls into play into out than your average team. This ranks as 13th in MLB. In the overall pitcher out of the 8 teams who made the playoffs 3 were in the top 5, Cards, Dodgers and Red Sox. While the other five finished below average.

Jerome
12-18-2004, 05:26 PM
According to the numbers the White Sox D was better then average, http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=3610. Converting 0.292% of balls into play into out than your average team. This ranks as 13th in MLB. In the overall pitcher out of the 8 teams who made the playoffs 3 were in the top 5, Cards, Dodgers and Red Sox. While the other five finished below average.



THANK YOU!

See what I mean? It is foolish for us to make defense our number one priority in this offseason!

If we were the best defensive team in baseball last year, would we have made the playoffs? That is what you have to ask yourself. I believe the answer is probably not.

JoseCanseco6969
12-18-2004, 10:13 PM
valentin dropping that foul ball, against the A's i believe....
I recall a game that i thought was against the twins when he dropped one...but i bet there was one against the a's too since it sure as hell wasnt a one time thing

I just cant understand how LA thinks he can play third, let alone SS??
I also cant understand how manos can still get 3.5 million dollars to have a sub 220 average?
Guaranteed there is no 30 HR year for him

with that said, go uribe!

ondafarm
12-18-2004, 11:25 PM
According to the numbers the White Sox D was better then average, http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=3610. Converting 0.292% of balls into play into out than your average team. This ranks as 13th in MLB. In the overall pitcher out of the 8 teams who made the playoffs 3 were in the top 5, Cards, Dodgers and Red Sox. While the other five finished below average.
Comparing teams which bat the pitcher and those that do not makes these rankings highly subjective. Also parks that have the reputation of being easy to hit homeruns in tend to affect the number of balls that are relatively easy fielding plays.

Rocklive99
12-18-2004, 11:49 PM
OOPS!

lets just completely forget about what our rotation looked like last year, and what it looks like now:

last year:
burls
loiaza
garland
shoney
<insert #5 here>

this year
garcia
burls
garland
contreras
<FA signing soon to come>

relax with your trollish nonsense.
The bullpen has me excited, it takes a lot of pressure off of our starters too