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View Full Version : Leave the Sox alone now???


Jurr
12-17-2004, 10:08 PM
Okay, so we've seen KW use restraint (either forced or not), and didn't overspend for a number 3 starter. Good deal. It would've been very nice to see Clement in our pinstripes, but it's not to be.
Sooooo....what do we do now? How about nothing.
Let's see what the stew tastes like before trying to add, add, add.

What did we do this offseason so far?????

1.)Well, we made the bullpen VERY solid. We've got balance, power, and adequate depth in the pen to be competitive in late innings or to hold leads. Good job, Kenny.
2.)We added some speed at the cost of some slugging with the addition of Podsednik, and we also added a strong replacement for Magglio with Jermaine Dye.

Okay, you say, now what?

Do we go and add more talent for the sake of adding it, or do we go into spring training and start the season with the talent we've got?
This is a very good question.

Pros to staying put:
It would be nice to see the team go from here and begin the season for a couple of reasons. We seem to have a good rotation with Garcia, Buehrle, Contreras, Garland, and Grilli. Grilli isn't the perfect 5 guy, but he did win us some ball games last year, and could do better in his second season in the bigs. We can't predict how good he's going to be with the experience he got last year, just the same as we can't predict that Matt Clement will go through 2005 healthy and in control of his breaking stuff. Every single player has question marks. Every single team has question marks. It's just the business. Now, is it better to let some of our question marks grow into solid players? If we had done something to that extent in previous years, we wouldn't have seen the growth of Rowand, the emergence of Loaiza, or numerous other situations like that. But, it may be better to go ahead and spend on some guy that we HAVE seen do big things before. That seems to make a lot of fans feel better.

You can't have an All Star at every position. Last year, the Sox had a ton of question marks going into the season (Schoeneweis was the 4th starter, for God's sake!!!), yet we were competitive until injuries took their toll. Now, if we stay put and see what this new roster can do, we will have money to burn at the deadline (along with trades) to really bolster this unit to make a push. If we have a bad start and aren't in contention at the break, then the Sox just weren't a good team. The signing of one pitcher like Clement doesn't make the difference in 15 games in a half season. So, if the Sox suck, they suck...if they're competitive, then we add a pitcher at the deadline. That's one scenario.

Cons (why we need MORE!!!!):
There's the other line of thought that we need to add and make a paper champion. This would mean bringing in a possible catcher (AJP), a second baseman (Cairo?), and a fifth starter (God knows). Yes, we know the guys we have currently at these spots aren't proven, and getting any of these players gives us someone that has proven themselves over the course of numerous years. That always makes us feel better because we assume they'll do it again.


Maybe the Sox make another move or so...maybe they won't. Maybe it isn't the best thing in the world to add for the sake of adding. Maybe we should watch the kids play. I'm not sure exactly how I feel on this, but I am beginning to think more and more that this team is NOT YET a World Series contender, and they need to have a young team grow together, generate excitement, and make a surprise run at the playoffs. Then, we may see some payroll increases and things of that nature to make this team great.

Most people believe that a player is only as good as what he's done so far in his career. Even the "experts" are guilty of it. Morons like those guys pick the same teams every year in every sport to repeat as champs, disregarding the potential in the players of other teams. Nobody would've thought New England was going to be a Super Bowl team last year, because they were too busy saying the Bucs were going to be champs. That's what happened the year before, so it made sense to pick 'em again. This is an example of the notion that given time, a team can come out of nowhere and believe in what it's doing, all the way to the point that it becomes a contender. Is it a coincidence that the 2000 Sox players all had career years? No..the reason is that they all believed they could win and elevated their games. Who knows??? Willie Harris, Juan Uribe, Ben Davis, and Jason Grilli could all be solid players next year. I'm not smart enough to know, and neither is anyone else. It would be something to see for a little while, at least.

batmanZoSo
12-17-2004, 10:11 PM
Okay, so we've seen KW use restraint (either forced or not), and didn't overspend for a number 3 starter. Good deal. It would've been very nice to see Clement in our pinstripes, but it's not to be.
Sooooo....what do we do now? How about nothing.
Let's see what the stew tastes like before trying to add, add, add.

What did we do this offseason so far?????

1.)Well, we made the bullpen VERY solid. We've got balance, power, and adequate depth in the pen to be competitive in late innings or to hold leads. Good job, Kenny.
2.)We added some speed at the cost of some slugging with the addition of Podsednik, and we also added a strong replacement for Magglio with Jermaine Dye.

Okay, you say, now what?

Do we go and add more talent for the sake of adding it, or do we go into spring training and start the season with the talent we've got?
This is a very good question.

Pros to staying put:
It would be nice to see the team go from here and begin the season for a couple of reasons. We seem to have a good rotation with Garcia, Buehrle, Contreras, Garland, and Grilli. Grilli isn't the perfect 5 guy, but he did win us some ball games last year, and could do better in his second season in the bigs. We can't predict how good he's going to be with the experience he got last year, just the same as we can't predict that Matt Clement will go through 2005 healthy and in control of his breaking stuff. Every single player has question marks. Every single team has question marks. It's just the business. Now, is it better to let some of our question marks grow into solid players? If we had done something to that extent in previous years, we wouldn't have seen the growth of Rowand, the emergence of Loaiza, or numerous other situations like that. But, it may be better to go ahead and spend on some guy that we HAVE seen do big things before. That seems to make a lot of fans feel better.

You can't have an All Star at every position. Last year, the Sox had a ton of question marks going into the season (Schoeneweis was the 4th starter, for God's sake!!!), yet we were competitive until injuries took their toll. Now, if we stay put and see what this new roster can do, we will have money to burn at the deadline (along with trades) to really bolster this unit to make a push. If we have a bad start and aren't in contention at the break, then the Sox just weren't a good team. The signing of one pitcher like Clement doesn't make the difference in 15 games in a half season. So, if the Sox suck, they suck...if they're competitive, then we add a pitcher at the deadline. That's one scenario.

Cons (why we need MORE!!!!):
There's the other line of thought that we need to add and make a paper champion. This would mean bringing in a possible catcher (AJP), a second baseman (Cairo?), and a fifth starter (God knows). Yes, we know these guys aren't proven, and getting any of these players gives us someone that has proven themselves over the course of numerous years. That always makes us feel better because we assume they'll do it again.


Maybe the Sox make another move or so...maybe they won't. Maybe it isn't the best thing in the world to add for the sake of adding. Maybe we should watch the kids play. I'm not sure exactly how I feel on this, but I am beginning to think more and more that this team is NOT YET a World Series contender, and they need to have a young team grow together, generate excitement, and make a surprise run at the playoffs. Then, we may see some payroll increases and things of that nature to make this team great.

Most people believe that a player is only as good as what he's done so far in his career. Even the "experts" are guilty of it. Morons like those guys pick the same teams every year in every sport to repeat as champs, disregarding the potential in the players of other teams. Nobody would've thought New England was going to be a Super Bowl team last year, because they were too busy saying the Bucs were going to be champs. That's what happened the year before, so it made sense to pick 'em again. This is an example of the notion that given time, a team can come out of nowhere and believe in what it's doing, all the way to the point that it becomes a contender. Is it a coincidence that the 2000 Sox players all had career years? No..the reason is that they all believed they could win and elevated their games. Who knows??? Willie Harris, Juan Uribe, Ben Davis, and Jason Grilli could all be solid players next year. I'm not smart enough to know, and neither is anyone else. It would be something to see for a little while, at least.
My head hurts. I don't feel like the Dead Sea scrolls tonight. Off to bed.

MRKARNO
12-17-2004, 10:13 PM
I dont see how not spending the money and only being able to spend it by giving up talent via a trade in the middle of the season is a good scenario

Jjav829
12-17-2004, 10:18 PM
The NFL analogy doesn't really work. The NFL is filled with parity so that nearly every team has a chance to contend at some level. Teams rise and fall each year.

To answer your original question, No. This team cannot be left alone. The biggest weakness of this team last year was pitching. That hasn't been addressed yet. I'll use an NFL analogy that works a little better here. The White Sox going into next season with Jason Grilli/Scott Schoeneweis as the #5 starter would be like the Bears going into next season with Jonathan Quinn as the back-up QB. It would be an awful decision. The lack of 5 quality MLB starting pitchers has been the biggest reason why the Sox have lost the past few years. To not address that wouldn't just be foolish, it would be a downright failure. For that matter, this team doesn't need a "#5 starter" type. We need a #3 starter. Garland can be a fine #5 and Contreras is a decent gamble as a #4. This team needs an upper-echelon pitcher. Kenny Williams job isn't done yet. He started off the off-season nicely, but if this is all he does, he failed.

Dick Allen
12-17-2004, 10:31 PM
Yeah, I'll leave the Sox alone now. I won't even show up at the ballpark. How's that for leaving them alone?

OurBitchinMinny
12-17-2004, 10:36 PM
If they stay pat, it means that the trade with milwaukee was just to fill JRs pockets with some of his money back. Because to even argue that we got fair value is ludicrous. They have to sign another pitcher or get a ML second baseman. And even then this team is still filled with question marks. There is no reason they should not be able to compete with the other teams in the division, but Im not gonna put my life savings on them to get the division. A few of the biggest question marks if they stay pat?


#1. Will JR allow KW to go out and add salary during the year if they do nothing till ST

#2. Can willie harris put it together?

#3. Was rowand a one year wonder?

#4. Is shingo going to work as closer? I know he was good and a nice surprise last year, but as the season got later, he started to get hit harder. His ERA rose, still a very good ERA, but until august it was unbelievable. Dont forget the more japanese pitchers are seen, the harder they get hit typically

#5 Will Garland finally break out? Crede? We've been waiting for years and they are running out of time?

#6. Can they stay healthy. Dye and Thomas are fragile.

#7 Catcher? Burke surprised and davis has talent, but is either an everyday catcher


There are a ton more questions obviously. Lets hope they arent quite done and then we will see what happens I guess

Brian26
12-17-2004, 10:44 PM
My head hurts. I don't feel like the Dead Sea scrolls tonight. Off to bed.
Thanks for letting us know you don't like to read. :D:

cbrownson13
12-17-2004, 10:46 PM
I agree that KW needs to do more. Yeah, we won some games with a suspect pitching staff in the first part of last year, but we had Frank, Maggs, and Carlos in the lineup too. This lineup can't overcome a suspect rotation. Whether it is signing another bat or another pitcher, something needs to be done.

I could possibly live with Shoenwise/Grilli in the 5 spot if we signed a decent bat like Polanco, Delgado (too much money), Beltran, Drew. Does anyone think that possibly David Delluci or Burnitz (not for the money he's asking for though) would be good fill-ins for Frank while he is out?

In the perfect world I'd love to have Odalis Perez and Placido Polanco on the roster for 2005, but that probably won't happen. I'd like to actually run away with this division this year. If we stand put, we probably have a good shot to contend. If we add a player or two we are in the drivers seat to win this division.

OurBitchinMinny
12-18-2004, 01:33 AM
Everett will be fine, better than burnitz or delluci.

Lip Man 1
12-18-2004, 11:47 AM
Compared to last season the addition of Hermansen, Dye and Posednik is a virtual weekend in Vegas.

However the Sox also lost a lot of players as well and still have major questions about the 5th starter, second base and catcher as well as Frank Thomas' health.

There is a lot more work to do if they want to improve on 83 wins. The question is are they content with 83 wins again.

Lip

munchman33
12-18-2004, 11:57 AM
It's obvious that the team feels it will win with pitching, speed, and defense. So, in that sense, 2nd base and catcher are not huge problems, as they're more than adequately filled. Willie is about as fast as it gets, and he's got a great glove. And our catching tandem is, at worst, decent defensively.

But if they want this plan to work, they can't afford to half-ass it. Signing or trading for another starter (without losing one) is paramount. If you're gonna trade Jon, make sure you get a starter back and enough money to sign another starter. If we go into next season without a fifth starter, this year more than any other, there is little hope for a division championship.