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Jjav829
12-17-2004, 04:43 PM
1-year, $1 million per The Score. Not a bad move. He's a decent bench player. Plus this means that "TimoPerez" guy will be back in the chat next year. :smile:

NonetheLoaiza
12-17-2004, 04:44 PM
He came up with some clutch hits for us last year and is an excellant 4th outfielder option off the bench. Good move by the Sox to resign him.

Jabroni
12-17-2004, 04:48 PM
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-041217sox,1,5427124.story?coll=cs-whitesox-headlines
The White Sox made three more roster moves Friday, signing Timo Perez, claiming right-hander Bobby Jenks off waivers from Anaheim and designating righty Eduardo Villacis for assignment.

Perez signed a 1-year deal for $1 million to avoid arbitration. The outfielder hit .246 last season.Later Borch!

:LTP
"Oh crap..."

TimoPerez
12-17-2004, 04:51 PM
1-year, $1 million per The Score. Not a bad move. He's a decent bench player. Plus this means that "TimoPerez" guy will be back in the chat next year. :smile::D:

It said on RotoWorld that they were trying to re-sign him and Rowand to multi-year deals. Oh well. No big deal. Timo is awesome. Any chance he starts next year, or at least platoons?(My personal pipe dream.) And yes, I will be back in chat next year!

MRKARNO
12-17-2004, 04:52 PM
He is an ideal bench outfielder, but will probably be the fifth outfielder behind Dye, Everett, Rowand and Podsednik. There is no room on the 25 man roster for Joe Borchard under almost any circumstances.

TimoPerez
12-17-2004, 04:53 PM
He is an ideal bench outfielder, but will probably be the fifth outfielder behind Dye, Everett, Rowand and Podsednik. There is no room on the 25 man roster for Joe Borchard under almost any circumstances.
Damn. I forgot about Dye when I made that last post. I want Timo to start.:(:

Brian26
12-17-2004, 04:54 PM
I heard Hawk was at the contract signing.

:hawk

"Come On, Timo. Come On, Timo. Come On, Timo. Come ON, TIMO! ...
Come ON, TIMO!!!!!"

:hawk

"YES!"

:DJ

"Dork."

Mohoney
12-17-2004, 04:57 PM
:D:

It said on RotoWorld that they were trying to re-sign him and Rowand to multi-year deals. Oh well. No big deal. Timo is awesome. Any chance he starts next year, or at least platoons?(My personal pipe dream.) And yes, I will be back in chat next year!
I'm glad that they locked Timo up. I really wanted him back.

Remember when he mocked Sosa at the Sunday Sox/Cubs game at US Cellular?

Remember when his antics on 1st base forced "Cy" Zambrano to serve up a homer to JOE CREDE?

Those 2 things alone merit a million bucks.

TimoPerez
12-17-2004, 04:58 PM
I'm glad that they locked Timo up. I really wanted him back.

Remember when he mocked Sosa at the Sunday Sox/Cubs game at US Cellular?

Remember when his antics on 1st base forced "Cy" Zambrano to serve up a homer to JOE CREDE?

Those 2 things alone merit a million bucks.
Good times. He has had some great moments in his career.

MRKARNO
12-17-2004, 04:59 PM
"C'MON TIMO!"

Jabroni
12-17-2004, 04:59 PM
Looks like neither Joe Borchard or Alex Escobar will make the opening day roster. Our 5 outfielders will be:

Dye
Everett
Perez
Podsednik
Rowand

Mohoney
12-17-2004, 05:00 PM
There is no room on the 25 man roster for Joe Borchard under almost any circumstances.
Anoither year in Charlotte for LTP, unless his Spring Training is ungodly.

Personally, I hope that he busts out and hits 40+ homers for the Knights.

MRKARNO
12-17-2004, 05:01 PM
Looks like neither Joe Borchard or Alex Escobar will make the opening day roster.
For the better. Either one of them would be below replacment level. The upgrade from Borchard to Dye/Everett is going to be about as big or bigger than the difference between Jon Garland and Javier Vazquez

wilburaga
12-17-2004, 05:02 PM
He is an ideal bench outfielder, but will probably be the fifth outfielder behind Dye, Everett, Rowand and Podsednik. There is no room on the 25 man roster for Joe Borchard under almost any circumstances.Isn't Borchard out of options anyway? That's what confused me about Kenny's recent 'more seasoning' remark about him. Seems to me we'd have to expose him to waivers to send him down. (Not that there's anything wrong with that.)

I'm afraid I have only two words for Joe - HUT HUT!


W

Dadawg_77
12-17-2004, 05:03 PM
1-year, $1 million per The Score. Not a bad move. He's a decent bench player. Plus this means that "TimoPerez" guy will be back in the chat next year. :smile:
A million dollars is way overpaying him. A minor league free agent could easily replace his production. I would never call resigning a 269/306/384 guy a good deal. How he got almost 300 at bats last year is beyond belief, but I guess HR hitters like Lee caused more of our problems then guys like Perez getting 300 at bats.

MUsoxfan
12-17-2004, 05:03 PM
I personally wouldn't have minded to see Timo start everyday in RF.....I don't disagree with the Dye signing, but now I feel we have a really deep outfield especially with the Borchard experiment seemingly officially over.

NonetheLoaiza
12-17-2004, 05:04 PM
I heard Hawk was at the contract signing.

:hawk

"Come On, Timo. Come On, Timo. Come On, Timo. Come ON, TIMO! ...
Come ON, TIMO!!!!!"

:hawk

"YES!"

:DJ

"Dork."
:rolling:...very nice

Dadawg_77
12-17-2004, 05:07 PM
What makes this worse is White Sox offer to Clement is million a year less then the Red Sox offer. Instead of giving million bucks to below replacement level player, the Sox could have bump up their offer to Clement to match Boston's offer, and make it much more likely he would sign here.

fquaye149
12-17-2004, 05:10 PM
What makes this worse is White Sox offer to Clement is million a year less then the Red Sox offer.
and you know this how?

MUsoxfan
12-17-2004, 05:11 PM
What makes this worse is White Sox offer to Clement is million a year less then the Red Sox offer. Instead of giving million bucks to below replacement level player, the Sox could have bump up their offer to Clement to match Boston's offer, and make it much more likely he would sign here.
I really don't think that million is that big of a deal. If it came down to only a million dollars being the breaking point of a deal for a big time SP, I think that even Uncle Jerry could scrape up a million dollars

santo=dorf
12-17-2004, 05:11 PM
What makes this worse is White Sox offer to Clement is million a year less then the Red Sox offer. Instead of giving million bucks to below replacement level player, the Sox could have bump up their offer to Clement to match Boston's offer, and make it much more likely he would sign here.So Clement would sign with Sox over the defending World Champs because he'll get $333,333 more per year on top of his $8 million salary?

Yeah ok. :rolleyes:

Dadawg_77
12-17-2004, 05:11 PM
and you know this how?
That is what the Tribune is reporting today.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-0412170171dec17,1,3120113.story?coll=chi-sportsnew-hed

fquaye149
12-17-2004, 05:11 PM
That is what the Tribune is reporting today.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-0412170171dec17,1,3120113.story?coll=chi-sportsnew-hed
you must have missed the reports that the sox had upped their contract offer to an unspecified amount.


see the clement thread

Jabroni
12-17-2004, 05:13 PM
That is what the Tribune is reporting today.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-0412170171dec17,1,3120113.story?coll=chi-sportsnew-hed
That article was posted on the Tribune's website late last night. Today, ESPN 1000 reported that the White Sox have upped their offer to Clement.

santo=dorf
12-17-2004, 05:14 PM
That is what the Tribune is reporting today.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-0412170171dec17,1,3120113.story?coll=chi-sportsnew-hed
And where in that article does it say that Clement will be unable to sign with the White Sox because they have committed $1 million to Timo Perez? :rolleyes:

MeanFish
12-17-2004, 05:14 PM
you must have missed the reports that the sox had upped their contract offer to an unspecified amount.


see the clement thread Did they say which Sox?

Edit - So as to not hijack the thread entirely...

WE LOVE YOU TIMO!!!!

I was at the game when he hit that bases clearing...single on an error by Vlad. That game was awesome. The guy next to me was all like "HEY TI-MO!!! TI-MO PEREZ!!!" and Timo looked at him like "omg what's your problem" because the guy kept screaming it over and over....it was pretty funny.

Jabroni
12-17-2004, 05:15 PM
Did they say which Sox?Today, ESPN 1000 said that the White Sox have upped their offer to Matt Clement.

MUsoxfan
12-17-2004, 05:15 PM
Did they say which Sox?
On this board "the Sox" generally means the only Sox we really care about

Dadawg_77
12-17-2004, 05:16 PM
you must have missed the reports that the sox had upped their contract offer to an unspecified amount.


see the clement thread
Good, but still doesn't change the fact the Sox could have spent a million dollar a more productive way then on Perez. If Kenny has hard or soft money constraints as he says, he needs to use his money to the fullest extent possible. Below replacement level players should make the minimal if they are on your team. And one has to question whether or not you should have replacement level players who is approaching 30 and has no upside on your team.

MeanFish
12-17-2004, 05:17 PM
On this board "the Sox" generally means the only Sox we really care about
That's true, but sometimes things get lost in translation, esp. if ESPN is involved.

Mohoney
12-17-2004, 05:21 PM
I was at the game when he hit that bases clearing...single on an error by Vlad.
Best Dollar Dog Thursday EVER! That was definitely one of the top 5 highlights of the season, without a doubt.

Dadawg_77
12-17-2004, 05:23 PM
And where in that article does it say that Clement will be unable to sign with the White Sox because they have committed $1 million to Timo Perez? :rolleyes:
It doesn't. But every penny spent somewhere cost you the ability is spend it somewhere else, Opportunity Cost. This factor is especially important for those operating under tight budgets.

For example the Sox are in contension come July and would benefit from making a trade wit JR is willing to bump up pay roll 3 million. The player Kenny really wants would add 4 million to the Sox payroll, so the trade never happens since JR won't bridge that gap. Now if the Sox hadn't given Timo a million bucks, JR would have bridged that smaller gap and Sox get the player Kenny really wanted. This concept happens every day out there in the world, mistakes of the past prevent good deals of the present from happening.

TimoPerez
12-17-2004, 05:24 PM
Timo looked at him like "omg what's your problem"
Is that a, "That is funny. I like you," look, or a, "Why are you doing these things," semi-annoyed look?:tongue:

DaleJRFan
12-17-2004, 05:25 PM
Good, but still doesn't change the fact the Sox could have spent a million dollar a more productive way then on Perez. If Kenny has hard or soft money constraints as he says, he needs to use his money to the fullest extent possible. Below replacement level players should make the minimal if they are on your team. And one has to question whether or not you should have replacement level players who is approaching 30 and has no upside on your team.
I can't understand how signing Timo Perez for 1 million dollars for one season is a bad thing. Good defender, decent speed, clutch hitter, great for pitch hitting, and annoys the hell out of Carlos Zambrano when he gets on base. Timo rocks. I'm glad we signed him...

Drop it.

TimoPerez
12-17-2004, 05:26 PM
Best Dollar Dog Thursday EVER! That was definitely one of the top 5 highlights of the season, without a doubt.
I was very happy that that game was on ESPN. I have to get something so I can watch Timo and the Sox everyday here in New York.

T-T-T Timo and The Sox:redface:

MeanFish
12-17-2004, 05:26 PM
Is that a, "That is funny. I like you," look, or a, "Why are you doing these things," semi-annoyed look?:tongue:
It was kind of an "omg, this guy is crazy drunk, I'll smile and try not to bust up laughing too hard" look

Jabroni
12-17-2004, 05:26 PM
It doesn't. But every penny spent somewhere cost you the ability is spend it somewhere else, Opportunity Cost. This factor is especially important for those operating under tight budgets.

For example the Sox are in contension come July and would benefit from making a trade wit JR is willing to bump up pay roll 3 million. The player Kenny really wants would add 4 million to the Sox payroll, so the trade never happens since JR won't bridge that gap. Now if the Sox hadn't given Timo a million bucks, JR would have bridged that smaller gap and Sox get the player Kenny really wanted. This concept happens every day out there in the world, mistakes of the past prevent good deals of the present from happening.Since when is $1 million dollars for a good backup outfielder WAY TOO MUCH MONEY? Dude, you need to get a new hobby. :rolleyes:

You do know that Timo made $850,000 last season with us right? Wow, a whole $150,000 raise! :rolleyes:

Ol' No. 2
12-17-2004, 05:26 PM
It doesn't. But every penny spent somewhere cost you the ability is spend it somewhere else, Opportunity Cost. This factor is especially important for those operating under tight budgets.

For example the Sox are in contension come July and would benefit from making a trade wit JR is willing to bump up pay roll 3 million. The player Kenny really wants would add 4 million to the Sox payroll, so the trade never happens since JR won't bridge that gap. Now if the Sox hadn't given Timo a million bucks, JR would have bridged that smaller gap and Sox get the player Kenny really wanted. This concept happens every day out there in the world, mistakes of the past prevent good deals of the present from happening.You're assuming that the 1 million difference would be a deal breaker. Not likely, IMO.

DaleJRFan
12-17-2004, 05:27 PM
It doesn't. But every penny spent somewhere cost you the ability is spend it somewhere else, Opportunity Cost. This factor is especially important for those operating under tight budgets.

For example the Sox are in contension come July and would benefit from making a trade wit JR is willing to bump up pay roll 3 million. The player Kenny really wants would add 4 million to the Sox payroll, so the trade never happens since JR won't bridge that gap. Now if the Sox hadn't given Timo a million bucks, JR would have bridged that smaller gap and Sox get the player Kenny really wanted. This concept happens every day out there in the world, mistakes of the past prevent good deals of the present from happening.
I am fairly certain that the Sox GM has played these scenarios out inside of his head while reasoning with the possiblities for signings and trades. If KW thought for a second that he would not be able to sign Matt Clement because he had signed Timo Perez, he would have waited until after Clement was signed, Sox or not, to make a decision on Perez. If KW could potentially lose out on Clement over 1 million dollars, why would he sign Timo during the bid war?

Common sense tells me KW knows what he is doing.

Dadawg_77
12-17-2004, 05:30 PM
I can't understand how signing Timo Perez for 1 million dollars for one season is a bad thing. Good defender, decent speed, clutch hitter, great for pitch hitting, and annoys the hell out of Carlos Zambrano when he gets on base. Timo rocks. I'm glad we signed him...

Drop it.
Because Timo sucks as a major league baseball player and is over paid if you give him anything more then major league minimum 300K.

Jabroni
12-17-2004, 05:31 PM
Because Timo sucks as a major league baseball player and is over paid if you give him anything more then major league minimum 300K.Actually, he doesn't suck. He is a good fielder with a good arm. He just needs to be used only against right-handed pitching.

Ol' No. 2
12-17-2004, 05:31 PM
Because Timo sucks as a major league baseball player and is over paid if you give him anything more then major league minimum 300K....he said, vehemently, as if it were fact and not opinion.

Mohoney
12-17-2004, 05:39 PM
...he said, vehemently, as if it were fact and not opinion.
Exactly. I think that a 4th or 5th OF that performs well in the clutch is an asset, not a liability.

Jon Garland is a liability. Jon Adkins is a liability. Timo Perez is NOT a liability.

Ol' No. 2
12-17-2004, 05:40 PM
Exactly. I think that a 4th or 5th OF that performs well in the clutch is an asset, not a liability.

Jon Garland is a liability. Jon Adkins is a liability. Timo Perez is NOT a liability.Are you talking about the Jon Garland who's better than about half the major league starting pitchers? He's a liability?

GAsoxfan
12-17-2004, 05:42 PM
I think the Timo siging was a good move for the Sox. Teams need veteran guys who can come off the bench and get the job done. Last year Timo hit .397 with RISP!

If you want to talk about wasting money, the Braves are spending $12 million to buy a digital screen that would be the biggest in professional sports. Nevermind they don't have a RF or LF. Fans down here are pretty upset about it. The Braves said they're doing it to enhance the "experience", but I think a lot more fans would rather hav JD Drew and the old screen (which is in perfectly fine shape) than some scrub and the biggest screen in sports.

Dadawg_77
12-17-2004, 05:42 PM
...he said, vehemently, as if it were fact and not opinion.
His stat line isn't opinion, it is fact. I don't care how good a defender you are, if you can't out produce that stat line, you shouldn't be on a team.

Eric Young signed with SD for million dollars for one year. .288/.377/.381 a much better deal then Perez.

Ol' No. 2
12-17-2004, 05:45 PM
His stat line isn't opinion, it is fact. I don't care how good a defender you are, if you can't out produce that stat line, you shouldn't be on a team.

Eric Young signed with SD for million dollars for one year. .288/.377/.381 a much better deal then Perez.Does that stat line include things like baserunning ability, hitting behind the runner, clutch hitting, bunting ability, defense or clubhouse chemistry? Or do those things not matter?

Jabroni
12-17-2004, 05:51 PM
Does that stat line include things like baserunning ability, hitting behind the runner, clutch hitting, bunting ability, defense or clubhouse chemistry? Or do those things not matter?Timo's .397 AVG and .419 OBP with runners in scoring position must not matter either!

The fact is that Timo is a great lefty clutch bat and defensive replacement off the bench. What more would you want from a fourth outfielder? Timo efinately deserves $1 million.

Win1ForMe
12-17-2004, 05:51 PM
Good, but still doesn't change the fact the Sox could have spent a million dollar a more productive way then on Perez. If Kenny has hard or soft money constraints as he says, he needs to use his money to the fullest extent possible. Below replacement level players should make the minimal if they are on your team. And one has to question whether or not you should have replacement level players who is approaching 30 and has no upside on your team.Games are not played on paper. Timo had as many big hits last year as anyone in a Sox uniform. It's a good signing because he's a great bench player.

Mohoney
12-17-2004, 06:01 PM
Are you talking about the Jon Garland who's better than about half the major league starting pitchers? He's a liability?
He is when he's counted on to be a #3.

We tried to run Jon Garland out there as a #3 before. It didn't work.

Every time we have relied on Garland to have a "breakout" season, we have finished in 2nd place. The trend is going on 3 years now.

Personally, I've had enough of these 6 inning, 4 earned run outings. I want somebody that offers the possibility of something more.

I wholeheartedly believe that the phrase "Jon Garland, World Series Winner" will never be uttered in my lifetime. I would make any trade involving Garland just for the sake of getting him out of this organization's mindset.

maurice
12-17-2004, 06:11 PM
ESPN had a link that said "White Sox, Perez agree to terms." I was happy for three seconds, until I found out it was Timo and not Odalis. :angry:

$1 mil for a backup OF? BFD. Once Frank's healthy, we'll be paying four times that for a backup OF. :o:

Jurr
12-17-2004, 06:12 PM
Personally, I've had enough of these 6 inning, 4 earned run outings. I want somebody that offers the possibility of something more.

Hell, I'd take that out of my 4th or 5th starter's slot any day. Garland's gotta get his mental makeup down a little better, and he's going to be a solid #2 guy, and with his stuff, he could be an ace. No joke. That's all up to him and his mentality. The Sox have the luxury of letting Jon stay around to get his act together and still give us some W's out of a lower spot in the rotation. He may turn into one of the more consistent guys in our rotation this year. You just never know. We've seen him on this roster for a long time, and he goes from shutting down the Red Sox to getting shelled by the Tigers. I've never seen a kid who's more susceptible to the little mental things than Garland, but if he gets that together, he's going to be special.

Thank God we've got a GM who actually recognizes that, but also puts him in a positon (lower in the rotation) where he can blossom under a little less stress.

Jurr
12-17-2004, 06:16 PM
ESPN had a link that said "White Sox, Perez agree to terms." I was happy for three seconds, until I found out it was Timo and not Odalis. :angry:

$1 mil for a backup OF? BFD. Once Frank's healthy, we'll be paying four times that for a backup OF. :o:
You have WAY too much confidence that Frank's just going to bounce right back from that injury. This is a very critical time for the Big Hurt. The type of chronic injury he has and the dependence he has on that foot really put an enormous question mark on his return and future productivity upon that return. Carl Everett is a very good pickup, and so is Timo. He can get a bunt down (Minnesota game's a good example), he can get a clutch hit (one example is the game tying homer in Florida), and he's not a defensive liability. I love Timo Perez, and he's great for the clubhouse. What more could you ask for???????

Mohoney
12-17-2004, 06:21 PM
I've never seen a kid who's more susceptible to the little mental things than Garland
This is my point. It's not his stuff that makes me angry. It's his attitude.

Instead of blaming himself for serving up a 3 run homer to BOBBY FRICKIN' HIGGINSON, he's going to blame Paul Konerko for only getting one out out of a ground ball instead of two.

Rule #1, YOU CAN NEVER ASSUME A DOUBLE PLAY!

This turd doesn't strike anybody out, serves up 30+ homers, wins a MAX of 12 games, loses in double digits, and has the nerve to blame his defense for ANYTHING?

Excuse me while I puke.

WSox8404
12-17-2004, 06:23 PM
Hey does someone wanna go vote on our poll of who is to blame for Mags leaving? We are on vote number 666, and since we are trying to improve our team we should maybe try to get it off that number.

maurice
12-17-2004, 06:24 PM
$1 mil for a backup OF? BFD. Once Frank's healthy, we'll be paying four times that for a backup OF. :o:
You have WAY too much confidence that Frank's just going to bounce right back from that injury.
I do? I'm pretty sure my post simply assumes that Frank will be in the Sox lineup at some point in 2005, converting Everett into an extremely expensive bench player. I think that's a pretty safe bet.

I love Timo Perez, and he's great for the clubhouse. What more could you ask for???????
An OBP over .285 and a SLG higher than .338 would be nice. :cool:

The bottom line is, Timo is a good situational hitter but a crappy everyday player. That's fine for a 4th OF in the AL, and the contract is not that much money in 2005 MLB terms. Like I said, BFD.

JB98
12-17-2004, 06:29 PM
He is when he's counted on to be a #3.

We tried to run Jon Garland out there as a #3 before. It didn't work.

Every time we have relied on Garland to have a "breakout" season, we have finished in 2nd place. The trend is going on 3 years now.

Personally, I've had enough of these 6 inning, 4 earned run outings. I want somebody that offers the possibility of something more.

I wholeheartedly believe that the phrase "Jon Garland, World Series Winner" will never be uttered in my lifetime. I would make any trade involving Garland just for the sake of getting him out of this organization's mindset.

If our biggest liability was a pitcher that throws 200 innings every year, we'd be in pretty good shape. The problem is Garland is nothing more than a back-of-the-rotation starter, and the Sox keep asking him to be a front-line starter. That, he is not. There's nothing wrong with Garland being on this team, as long as he's the fourth or fifth starter. If you look around the league, I think you'll find that six innings, four runs is pretty standard fare for a lot of back-of-the-rotation starters.

Jurr
12-17-2004, 06:41 PM
I do? I'm pretty sure my post simply assumes that Frank will be in the Sox lineup at some point in 2005, converting Everett into an extremely expensive bench player. I think that's a pretty safe bet.
But, when Frank DOES return, is he going to be able to plant and drive through the strike zone on that foot like he has his whole career? We don't know that. We don't know how much range of motion he's going to have in that ankle joint.
Carl's not going to be riding the pine this year much at all, regardless. He'll be the man at DH during the first 3-4 months of the season, then IF IF IF Frank comes back, he may not be able to produce consistently until August due to the time away. So, I think paying 4 M a year for a guy that you are absolutely going to be depending on for the bulk of a year (and probably the whole year) is a very good expenditure.

You're failing to get the notion that Carl is NOT going to be sitting on the bench for any extended period of time, if at all this season. The only scenario that would put him there would be a great one, but somewhat unlikely, and that would be Frank coming back in June, perfectly healthy and on fire with our outfielders staying healthy and putting up good numbers.

TimoPerez
12-17-2004, 06:47 PM
It was kind of an "omg, this guy is crazy drunk, I'll smile and try not to bust up laughing too hard" look
:) Timo is the man.

To everyone who doubts this move, the more at-bats Timo gets, the better he will perform. You definitely want to have him when your centerfielder is nicknamed "Crash," and your rightfielder spent almost the entire season on the DL two years ago. Timo plays great defense, gets extremely clutch hits, and has one of the best arms in the Major Leagues(Yes. In the Major Leagues). Paying $1 million for a guy who can do these things is great, especially since he may have to play everyday if your centerfielder and rightfielder(or even DH, if Everett gets hurt at the beginning of the season), who have been injured for long amounts of time before, are out again. And even if he doesn't play full time, he is a great pinch hitter, with the amazing ability to put the ball in play. He thrives in any position he is put in.

maurice
12-17-2004, 06:50 PM
You're presenting sheer speculation as fact, Jurr. Neither you, nor I, nor anybody else on this site knows when Frank will return or how he will perform. Everybody in the Sox organization not named Guillen has said that he'll be ready for Spring Training. IIRC, even Guillen speculated that he'd be in the lineup on a regular basis by June . . . at which point Everett becomes a highly paid bench player, barring another injury or trade. At best, Everett is an insurance policy who is not guaranteed to produce. It is at least arguable that the premium on such an insurance policy should be less than $4 million.

maurice
12-17-2004, 06:55 PM
the more at-bats Timo gets, the better he will perform.
:?:

He had 293 ABs in 2004.

Jurr
12-17-2004, 06:55 PM
:) Timo is the man.

To everyone who doubts this move, the more at-bats Timo gets, the better he will perform. You definitely want to have him when your centerfielder is nicknamed "Crash," and your rightfielder spent almost the entire season on the DL two years ago. Timo plays great defense, gets extremely clutch hits, and has one of the best arms in the Major Leagues(Yes. In the Major Leagues). Paying $1 million for a guy who can do these things is great, especially since he may have to play everyday if your centerfielder and rightfielder(or even DH, if Everett gets hurt at the beginning of the season), who have been injured for long amounts of time before, are out again. And even if he doesn't play full time, he is a great pinch hitter, with the amazing ability to put the ball in play. He thrives in any position he is put in.Beautifully put. His day-to-day numbers aren't impressive, but as Hawk puts it, "Don't tell me what you hit, but when you hit it."
If the Sox have runners on first and second with no outs, down 1 run in the bottom of 9, he'd be the first person I'd look at to get the job done. Great signing.

Jabroni
12-17-2004, 06:59 PM
Beautifully put. His day-to-day numbers aren't impressive, but as Hawk puts it, "Don't tell me what you hit, but when you hit it."
If the Sox have runners on first and second with no outs, down 1 run in the bottom of 9, he'd be the first person I'd look at to get the job done. Great signing.Timo is worth $1 million for this reason alone.

Lip Man 1
12-17-2004, 07:06 PM
He's a good bench player to have as long as you don't try to play him to much on a regular basis.

Lip

SoxFan76
12-17-2004, 07:07 PM
Wow, since when does BA, OBP, and SLG completely say what a player is worth? ESPECIALLY a bench player. Timo is the most clutch player the Sox have. He isn't exactly a liability out there in the outfield (Gload), and he isn't exactly the slowest man (Konerko). So...what are we arguing about again? :rolleyes:

There is nothing wrong with this signing.

Jurr
12-17-2004, 07:09 PM
Oh, and Maurice, as far as Frank's injury goes, ask Beckett about that injury and what it could possibly do to him. We still haven't heard if he had an ankle fusion operation or not, but that was the word. It may not occur to coaches, GM's, and the like exactly what a player's dealing with. In the experience I had as an AT in undergrad, I found that most coaches and admin. people will ask and ask until you give them something that they can get some hope over.

Now, I haven't ever done a procedure on a foot or an ankle, and it is far from my expertise as far as the human body goes, but we did learn extensively on lower limb anatomy and some of the surgical procedures. Ankle fusion would totally limit his movement in that joint complex. That would cripple his ability to really rotate around that joint. Tell me that wouldn't be a problem.

The thing about it all is that we don't know how Frank is going to respond when he comes back. God bless him, and I hope he comes back fine. But, you, I, or the Sox management can't be hoping that Frank's going to come back and light the world on fire like he always has. He has SO much dependence on his foot to fulcrum his swing. Just watch a video of him.
So, to end this little debate on the sense that putting 4 M on Carl Everett makes, just remember that he has, as recently as 2002, been an All-Star player, and could be a HUGE steal for us at that contract.

Jabroni
12-17-2004, 07:12 PM
Wow, since when does BA, OBP, and SLG completely say what a player is worth? ESPECIALLY a bench player. Timo is the most clutch player the Sox have. He isn't exactly a liability out there in the outfield (Gload), and he isn't exactly the slowest man (Konerko). So...what are we arguing about again? :rolleyes:

There is nothing wrong with this signing.Here's when...

Timo Perez (in 2004 with runners in scoring position) (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?statsId=6568&type=batting&year=2004)
68 At Bats
.397 AVG
.419 OBP
.500 SLG
.919 OPS
34 RBI

Can you say, "clutch"?

Dadawg_77
12-17-2004, 07:14 PM
Here's when...

Timo Perez (in 2004 with runners in scoring position) (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?statsId=6568&type=batting&year=2004)
.397 AVG
.419 OBP
.500 SLG
.919 OPS
2003 Numbers RISP

.273/.301/.351/.652 (OPS) 77abs He had 68 in 2004.

There are clutch hits but not clutch hitters as what a hitter did in the year doesn't show what he will do in the following year in clutch situations. So saying a signing is good because a player is clutch hitter is faulty logic at best.

FarWestChicago
12-17-2004, 07:15 PM
2003 Numbers

Category G AB R H DO TR HR RBI BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG TB SF SH HBP IBB GDP LATE INNING PRESS475041320043901.296.300.2601510002 LIP-RUNNERS ON27204620040401.286.400.300810002 WITH NO OUTS861315377021361110.307.382.2825037001 WITH ONE OUT8510716338021961013.339.439.3084760204 WITH TWO OUTS791081123600106833.254.269.2132900010 LEADING OFF628922230224800.280.348.2473100000 FIRST INNING655582030294501.387.527.3642932000 Category G AB R H DO TR HR RBI BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG TB SF SH HBP IBB GDP >= 7TH INNING1041161122500881401.246.233.1902713112Now that's what I call driving a point home, Dawg! http://www.flyingsock.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/redneck.gif

Jurr
12-17-2004, 07:15 PM
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!! I'm getting absolute overload from that last post! What the hell does any of that mean??????????

Jurr
12-17-2004, 07:16 PM
2003 Numbers

Category G AB R H DO TR HR RBI BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG TB SF SH HBP IBB GDP LATE INNING PRESS475041320043901.296.300.2601510002 LIP-RUNNERS ON27204620040401.286.400.300810002 WITH NO OUTS861315377021361110.307.382.2825037001 WITH ONE OUT8510716338021961013.339.439.3084760204 WITH TWO OUTS791081123600106833.254.269.2132900010 LEADING OFF628922230224800.280.348.2473100000 FIRST INNING655582030294501.387.527.3642932000 Category G AB R H DO TR HR RBI BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG TB SF SH HBP IBB GDP >= 7TH INNING1041161122500881401.246.233.1902713112
I swear to God, I thought I was looking at the Matrix or something!

Jabroni
12-17-2004, 07:16 PM
2003 Numbers

Category G AB R H DO TR HR RBI BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG TB SF SH HBP IBB GDP LATE INNING PRESS475041320043901.296.300.2601510002 LIP-RUNNERS ON27204620040401.286.400.300810002 WITH NO OUTS861315377021361110.307.382.2825037001 WITH ONE OUT8510716338021961013.339.439.3084760204 WITH TWO OUTS791081123600106833.254.269.2132900010 LEADING OFF628922230224800.280.348.2473100000 FIRST INNING655582030294501.387.527.3642932000 Category G AB R H DO TR HR RBI BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG TB SF SH HBP IBB GDP >= 7TH INNING1041161122500881401.246.233.1902713112Don't you think what Timo did last season when he was actually with the White Sox matters more than what he did with the Mets in 2003? :rolleyes:

Dadawg_77
12-17-2004, 07:18 PM
Now that's what I call driving a point home, Dawg! http://www.flyingsock.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/redneck.gif
yeah I forgot you can't past stat tables in here.

TimoPerez
12-17-2004, 07:18 PM
:?:

He had 293 ABs in 2004.
Correct me if I am wrong because this is off the top of my head, but in 2003 he hit .269 in 346 at-bats, and in 2002 he hit .295 in 444 at-bats. Plus, this offseason he will get a chance to rest his injured leg, and should only come back stronger. He is hitting .300 with a .364 OBP in Winter Ball now if anyone is interested.

Give Timo 400+ at-bats against righties and he will go .300/.340/.430. He has also said that he thinks he can steal more than 25 bases in a season. He definitely has the speed to do it.

Dadawg_77
12-17-2004, 07:18 PM
Don't you think what Timo did last season when he was actually with the White Sox matters more than what he did with the Mets in 2003? :rolleyes:
No, see my edit above.

TimoPerez
12-17-2004, 07:20 PM
Don't you think what Timo did last season when he was actually with the White Sox matters more than what he did with the Mets in 2003? :rolleyes:
It is important to look at what happened last year, but by no means can you count the rest of it out.

Jabroni
12-17-2004, 07:20 PM
Give Timo 400+ at-bats against righties and he will go .300/.340/.430. He has also said that he thinks he can steal more than 25 bases in a season. He definitely has the speed to do it.I thought Timo was slow even though he's a small dude? :?:

TimoPerez
12-17-2004, 07:20 PM
Beautifully put. His day-to-day numbers aren't impressive, but as Hawk puts it, "Don't tell me what you hit, but when you hit it."
If the Sox have runners on first and second with no outs, down 1 run in the bottom of 9, he'd be the first person I'd look at to get the job done. Great signing.
Thank you. Timo is my main hobby.:cool:

FarWestChicago
12-17-2004, 07:21 PM
There are clutch hits but not clutch hitters as what a hitter did in the year doesn't show what he will do in the following year in clutch situations. So saying a signing is good because a player is clutch hitter is faulty logic at best.If you assume all people respond the same to pressure. Now, you want to talk faulty logic. http://www.flyingsock.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Jabroni
12-17-2004, 07:22 PM
2003 Numbers RISP

.273/.301/.351/.652 (OPS) 77abs He had 68 in 2004.

There are clutch hits but not clutch hitters as what a hitter did in the year doesn't show what he will do in the following year in clutch situations. So saying a signing is good because a player is clutch hitter is faulty logic at best.Would you rather have Alex Escobar coming off the bench in key situations? He would be cheaper than Timo. :rolleyes:

Hey, how about Borchard instead? :gulp:

:chunks

TimoPerez
12-17-2004, 07:25 PM
I thought Timo was slow even though he's a small dude? :?:
Timo is definitely not slow. Last year he had an injured right quadriceps all season. With this injury, he still got from contact to first on his drag bunt against the Twins in 3.6 seconds.

Dadawg_77
12-17-2004, 07:27 PM
If you assume all people respond the same to pressure. Now, you want to talk faulty logic. http://www.flyingsock.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif
See I am not about to make character judgments of how much pressure a person can handle by an activity that if you fail 6 out ten times, you are pretty good at. We see a dramatic improvement in his production with RISP last year and we see this improvement no where else. Did Timo under the great tutelage of Ozzie learn how to deal with pressure better then he did with Howe? Or is it the ball just fell Timo's way in 2004 and one can not count on the ball falling the same way in 2005 and beyond.?

santo=dorf
12-17-2004, 07:28 PM
Timo is definitely not slow. Last year he had an injured right quadriceps all season. With this injury, he still got from contact to first on his drag bunt against the Twins in 3.6 seconds.
So now you watch Sox games with a stopwatch?

Don't forget about Timo's throw in that game against Seattle to end the game. :gulp:

Dadawg_77
12-17-2004, 07:28 PM
Would you rather have Alex Escobar coming off the bench in key situations? He would be cheaper than Timo. :rolleyes:

Hey, how about Borchard instead? :gulp:

:chunks
You would get the same production from all three overall. What happens with RISP I won't speculate, because there is too much randomness involved to say anything.

TimoPerez
12-17-2004, 07:31 PM
2003 Numbers RISP

.273/.301/.351/.652 (OPS) 77abs He had 68 in 2004.

There are clutch hits but not clutch hitters as what a hitter did in the year doesn't show what he will do in the following year in clutch situations. So saying a signing is good because a player is clutch hitter is faulty logic at best.
Career Numbers with Runners in Scoring Position

.318/.350/.436/.786 in 289 at-bats. Not too shabby

Jabroni
12-17-2004, 07:34 PM
You would get the same production from all three overall. What happens with RISP I won't speculate, because there is too much randomness involved to say anything.Ummm... WRONG!!!


Career AVG & OBP:

Timo Perez (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/stats/mlb_individual_stats_player.jsp?playerID=340392&statType=1)
.269 AVG
.306 OBP

Joe Borchard (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/stats/mlb_individual_stats_player.jsp?playerID=400021&statType=1)
.182 AVG
.248 OBP

Alex Escobar (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/stats/mlb_individual_stats_player.jsp?playerID=276510&statType=1)
.229 AVG
.309 OBP


Come on Dadawg, you're a stat-head aren't you? You should know these things already. :rolleyes:

TimoPerez
12-17-2004, 07:37 PM
So now you watch Sox games with a stopwatch?

Don't forget about Timo's throw in that game against Seattle to end the game. :gulp:
I timed it to see how fast he is.:redface:

I would never forget that throw. There were a couple with the Mets that I won't forget either. There was a runner on second one time wih him playing leftfield. He caught the flyball against the wall, where he was obviously moving backwards. He caught it, and through a bullet to third with his weight going backward to hold the runner. Another one was when he was playing rightfield, he caught a deep flyball right next to th line in fair territory with a runner on second. He threw another bullet to third base, which reached on the fly, a foot or two above the ground. It was caught right where you would want it for the tag to be made. Had the runner been tagging up on either occasion, even if his name was Ichiro, he had no chance to make it to third.

Jurr
12-17-2004, 07:38 PM
To further illustrate the point on Timo:

Who the hell does the photoshop for ESPN????? This is HORRIBLE!!

http://espn.go.com/media/mlb/2004/1217/photo/n_hudson_m.jpg

Jeez!

Mohoney
12-17-2004, 08:16 PM
Give Timo 400+ at-bats against righties and he will go .300/.340/.430.
That's a very gutsy prediction. I can't agree with you here.

Win1ForMe
12-17-2004, 08:21 PM
To further illustrate the point on Timo:

Who the hell does the photoshop for ESPN????? This is HORRIBLE!!

http://espn.go.com/media/mlb/2004/1217/photo/n_hudson_m.jpg

Jeez!
Haha. That looks terrible. Santo destroys that guy.

santo=dorf
12-17-2004, 08:38 PM
Haha. That looks terrible. Santo destroys that guy.
Thanks! :gulp:

HomeFish
12-17-2004, 08:47 PM
Anyone who says Timo is not worth it, I say this: watch the 2004 game that Felix Diaz started vs CHC.

Uribe's Weed
12-17-2004, 08:50 PM
I never thought I would see a thread with 90+ replies in it be about a Timo Perez signing! :D:

TimoPerez
12-17-2004, 09:33 PM
That's a very gutsy prediction. I can't agree with you here.
May I ask why? In his career, while healthy, he has always hit .300 against righties. Last season was his worst in the Majors, and look how many people were pleased with his play. Granted, some weren't, but he is a great player. When healthy, and even with some monir injuries that he is able to play through, he is an asset to any team.

TimoPerez
12-17-2004, 09:34 PM
I never thought I would see a thread with 90+ replies in it be about a Timo Perez signing! :D:
I'm hoping to get this thread a tomato.:smile:

soltrain21
12-17-2004, 09:38 PM
I love watching Timo play.


Hey Timo, how come you don't do that running slap hit anymore? I only see it a few times last year.



We did establish you were THEE Timo Perez in the chat room last year, right?

balboner
12-17-2004, 09:48 PM
Anyone who says Timo is not worth it, I say this: watch the 2004 game that Felix Diaz started vs CHC.
Anyone who thinks Timo is worth it should look at his stats between July and August in which his OPS was around .500. He was one of the 5 worst outfielders in the American League last year who got at least 200 at bats. Of course, Borchard was worse.

TimoPerez
12-17-2004, 09:53 PM
I love watching Timo play.


Hey Timo, how come you don't do that running slap hit anymore? I only see it a few times last year.



We did establish you were THEE Timo Perez in the chat room last year, right?
:) Not quite THE Timo Perez. Or even A Timo Perez for that matter. I am a very big Met fan who adopted the Sox as his second favorite team when Timo was traded. Timo is obviously my favorite player.

About tha slap hit. Timo never did that all of the time. The most he did it was a few times a year. He really pissed off Clemens in the 2000 World Series doing it. I really like the approach and would like to see it a little more. I remember reading an article from October of 2000 that mentioned how amazing it was that he was able to hit a ball while running to first already. He was one of, if not the first person to do that in America.

TimoPerez
12-17-2004, 09:54 PM
Anyone who thinks Timo is worth it should look at his stats between July and August in which his OPS was around .500. He was one of the 5 worst outfielders in the American League last year who got at least 200 at bats. Of course, Borchard was worse.
He had a leg injury that affected his hitting. It will be rested up this offseason, and next year you will hopefully see the real Timo.

TheBull19
12-18-2004, 04:26 AM
...he said, vehemently, as if it were fact and not opinion.
If you don't feel strongly enough about your opinions to express them vehemently, they are hardly worth expressing at all.

Bisco Stu
12-18-2004, 04:51 AM
Great news, along with the Uribe signing. Continuity is key.

Dadawg_77
12-18-2004, 10:26 AM
Ummm... WRONG!!!


Career AVG & OBP:

Timo Perez (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/stats/mlb_individual_stats_player.jsp?playerID=340392&statType=1)
.269 AVG
.306 OBP

Joe Borchard (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/stats/mlb_individual_stats_player.jsp?playerID=400021&statType=1)
.182 AVG
.248 OBP

Alex Escobar (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/stats/mlb_individual_stats_player.jsp?playerID=276510&statType=1)
.229 AVG
.309 OBP


Come on Dadawg, you're a stat-head aren't you? You should know these things already. :rolleyes:

I guess there is a difference between really bad and just bad. I was just saying you get bad production from all three.

Ol' No. 2
12-18-2004, 01:02 PM
If you don't feel strongly enough about your opinions to express them vehemently, they are hardly worth expressing at all.Stating them vehemently doesn't make them into facts. Some people have a hard time recognizing the difference.

JRIG
12-18-2004, 02:26 PM
I'm not sure which is more mystifying:

KW deciding Dustin Hermanson deserves a huge raise after his year last season, or KW deciding Timo Perez deserves a $150,000 raise after his horrid year in 2004.

Jabroni
12-18-2004, 02:41 PM
I'm not sure which is more mystifying:

KW deciding Dustin Hermanson deserves a huge raise after his year last season, or KW deciding Timo Perez deserves a $150,000 raise after his horrid year in 2004.Horrid year? Timo was clutch with runners in scoring position...

Timo Perez (in 2004 with runners in scoring position) (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?statsId=6568&type=batting&year=2004)
68 At Bats
.397 AVG
.419 OBP
.500 SLG
.919 OPS
34 RBI

That's not worth a $150,000 raise? Did you even watch any games last season? :?:

JRIG
12-18-2004, 02:48 PM
Horrid year? Timo was clutch with runners in scoring position. Did you even watch any games last season? :?:
Ummm, yes. Apparently more than you if I saw enough to see that around the few big hits Perez had, he managed to put together a pretty horrible .246/.285/.338 season. Maybe if he hit better with the bases empty (.205/.253/.281), he wouldn't have had to come up with the "clutch" hits he did. Hitting well in those scenarios is not a bankable repeatable skill anyway.

MeanFish
12-18-2004, 02:50 PM
If you had watched the games, you wouldn't need to regurgitate stats.

Jabroni
12-18-2004, 02:52 PM
Ummm, yes. Apparently more than you if I saw enough to see that around the few big hits Perez had, he managed to put together a pretty horrible .246/.285/.338 season. Maybe if he hit better with the bases empty (.205/.253/.281), he wouldn't have had to come up with the "clutch" hits he did. Hitting well in those scenarios is not a bankable repeatable skill anyway.Haha, so it's a bad thing that he came up with the clutch hits that he did? :rolleyes:

JRIG
12-18-2004, 02:56 PM
If you had watched the games, you wouldn't need to regurgitate stats.
If you looked at the stats as well as watched the games, you wouldn't need to rely on anecdotal evidence of remembering Perez coming up a some big hits while forgetting the dozens and dozens of times he made out early in the games.

TheBull19
12-18-2004, 02:57 PM
Stating them vehemently doesn't make them into facts. Some people have a hard time recognizing the difference.
I'd think anyone with the intelligence of a 3rd grader would be able to recognize that when someone states that something sucks they are stating an opinion.

JRIG
12-18-2004, 02:57 PM
Haha, so it's a bad thing that he came up with the clutch hits that he did? :rolleyes:
It's not a bad thing, but it's not something you can rely on him doing again. So rewarding him for what he did with RISP last year is not a smart move.

Jabroni
12-18-2004, 02:59 PM
It's not a bad thing, but it's not something you can rely on him doing again. So rewarding him for what he did with RISP last year is not a smart move.How about the fact that he can actually bunt and is a good fielder with a strong arm?

JRIG
12-18-2004, 03:10 PM
How about the fact that he can actually bunt and is a good fielder with a strong arm?
Since this is not the dead ball era anymore, the ability to bunt and a quarter will buy you a phone call.

And he's an average outfielder. No better or worse than Calos Lee.

He not the worst playerr in the majors, just a very replaceable one. To give him $1 million is irresponsible.

soltrain21
12-18-2004, 03:12 PM
Since this is not the dead ball era anymore, the ability to bunt and a quarter will buy you a phone call.



You just lost your argument right there.

Jabroni
12-18-2004, 03:16 PM
Since this is not the dead ball era anymore, the ability to bunt and a quarter will buy you a phone call.I guess bunting is a worthless part of Ichiro's game, right? Juan Pierre? Yeah bunting doesn't greatly improve his game at all. :rolleyes:
And he's an average outfielder. No better or worse than Calos Lee.

He not the worst playerr in the majors, just a very replaceable one. To give him $1 million is irresponsible.Okay, now I don't even think I can read your posts anymore. Did you just say that Timo is not any better than Carlos Lee at fielding? You do know that Timo has played some CF in his career, right? Timo can play every outfield position while Carlos Lee can only play LF, yet they are about equal defensively? :rolleyes:

JRIG
12-18-2004, 03:26 PM
I guess bunting is a worthless part of Ichiro's game, right? :rolleyes:
Okay, now I don't even think I can read your posts anymore. Did you just say that Timo is not any better than Carlos Lee at fielding? You do know that Timo has played some CF in his career, right? Timo can play every outfield position while Carlos Lee can only play LF, yet they are about equal defensively? :rolleyes:
The ability to play multiple positions does not make one a great defensive player. Josh Paul played some left field. as well as 3rd base and catcher. Does that mean he's a great defensive player?

Maybe you didn't watch enough games last year, but Carlos Lee has turned himself into an average at worst left fielder. No errors last year and he took much better breaks on fly balls too.

Jabroni
12-18-2004, 03:29 PM
The ability to play multiple positions does not make one a great defensive player. Josh Paul played some left field. as well as 3rd base and catcher. Does that mean he's a great defensive player?

Maybe you didn't watch enough games last year, but Carlos Lee has turned himself into an average at worst left fielder. No errors last year and he took much better breaks on fly balls too.So Timo isn't any better than an "average at worst left fielder" like Carlos Lee?

I'm guessing you've realized how idiotic it was to say that bunting isn't important in modern baseball.

JRIG
12-18-2004, 03:33 PM
So Timo isn't any better than an "average at worst left fielder" like Carlos Lee?

I'm guessing you've realized how idiotic it was to say that bunting isn't important in modern baseball.
Let's call a truce, shall we? I don't want to hijack this thread any more than it already is.

No, I still believe bunting isn't very important. Yes, I think Tino Perez and Carlos Lee are about equal defensively.

But at this point in the argument, neither you nor I will be able to convince the other he's wrong.

Jabroni
12-18-2004, 03:37 PM
Let's call a truce, shall we? I don't want to hijack this thread any more than it already is.

No, I still believe bunting isn't very important. Yes, I think Tino Perez and Carlos Lee are about equal defensively.

But at this point in the argument, neither you nor I will be able to convince the other he's wrong.I think an overwhelming majority of posters here would agree with me that Timo Perez is a better defensive outfielder than Carlos Lee. In fact, I am going to start a poll on it...

"Better Defensive Outfielder -- Carlos Lee or Timo Perez?"
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=43050

DaleJRFan
12-18-2004, 04:21 PM
Horrid year? Timo was clutch with runners in scoring position...

Timo Perez (in 2004 with runners in scoring position) (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?statsId=6568&type=batting&year=2004)
68 At Bats
.397 AVG
.419 OBP
.500 SLG
.919 OPS
34 RBI

That's not worth a $150,000 raise? Did you even watch any games last season? :?:
This is pretty hard to argue with, even from a pessimist's perspective.

Ol' No. 2
12-18-2004, 04:39 PM
I'd think anyone with the intelligence of a 3rd grader would be able to recognize that when someone states that something sucks they are stating an opinion.What part of this is hard to understand?
...he said, vehemently, as if it were fact and not opinion.

tstrike2000
12-19-2004, 01:22 AM
Like a lot of people have said....wrong Perez.

BridgePortNative
12-19-2004, 09:50 PM
I heard Hawk was at the contract signing.

:hawk

"Come On, Timo. Come On, Timo. Come On, Timo. Come ON, TIMO! ...
Come ON, TIMO!!!!!"

:hawk

"YES!"

:DJ


"Dork."




:rolling: :threadrules: