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pudge
12-17-2004, 01:43 AM
This is gonna get interesting...

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-041216sox,1,5164979.story?coll=cs-whitesox-headlines

Jabroni
12-17-2004, 01:50 AM
Here's a few excerpts...
One of those offers is believed to be a three-year deal from the Sox for roughly $21 million. Axelrod confirmed the Sox have made an offer and termed it "competitive."

"Anyone on the list is still in it," Axelrod said.While the White Sox have not offered the most money, they do have a couple of advantages. One is Clement's familiarity with and fondness for the city.

"He loves Chicago," Axelrod said. "He would have preferred to stay with the Cubs."

Signing with the White Sox could be the next best thing, reducing transition concerns for Clement and his family.Axelrod said lifestyle factors would play as big a role in which team Clement chooses as the amount of money offered.

"He may end up going to the biggest bidder," Axelrod said. "But it won't be because they are the biggest bidder."I guess we'll find out tomorrow.

SouthSide_HitMen
12-17-2004, 01:59 AM
Thanks for the update Jabroni - Will not sign up / log in to the Tribune. Hope Clement lands here. As long as we keep Garland, we should have a very good staff heading into 2005 facing a lighter workload as the bullpen has also improved over last year (you just knew that the pitchers were tired and Ozzie would try to get a few more outs out of the tired starters to no avail).

Man Soo Lee
12-17-2004, 07:21 AM
Does it concern anyone that Clement had a 5.09 ERA after the All-Star break last year? Or that he was pulled from the rotation in September with shoulder "tightness"?

Whitesoxtom
12-17-2004, 08:52 AM
Does it concern anyone that Clement had a 5.09 ERA after the All-Star break last year? Or that he was pulled from the rotation in September with shoulder "tightness"?I am actually more concerned we have not had a decent #5 starter in at least two years.

bigredrudy
12-17-2004, 09:05 AM
With the Yankees acquisition of Randy Johnson the Red Sox Nation is demanding that the Red Sox sign Clement. I think the Red Sox will pay whatever it takes. If the White Sox offer Scott Schoneweiss a contract then you know their pursuit of a pitcher is probably over.

ChiSoxTony
12-17-2004, 09:31 AM
I just had recent discussions with my source at the players union, and again he confirmed that a contract between the WS and Clement has been submitted for approval. I will keep u advised of any further developments.

wdelaney72
12-17-2004, 09:31 AM
I really hope Kenny tries to be a little more competitive. I wouldn't put much stock in the "home town discount" concept. If Boston jumps in and aggressively goes after him, we could be in trouble. I agree with most people that the market has dictated overpaying for SP, but we CANNOT go into next season AGAIN with a questionable 5th starter. Signing Clement makes our rotation amongst the best in MLB.

Hangar18
12-17-2004, 09:32 AM
I just had recent discussions with my source at the players union, and again he confirmed that a contract between the WS and Clement has been submitted for approval. I will keep u advised of any further developments.
I hope this goes thru .......

DaveIsHere
12-17-2004, 09:38 AM
Damn it Tony, here we go again. I say if you are wrong that you buy us all some beers so we can sulk over not signing Clement after you get our hopes up.


Oh yeah, do you have a timeline.

ChiSoxTony
12-17-2004, 09:40 AM
If im wrong I will apologize to u all, and of course buy a round, but i wont be wrong. What do I get if Im right?

ChiSoxTony
12-17-2004, 09:41 AM
Im hearing today.

wdelaney72
12-17-2004, 09:41 AM
This suspense is killing me. While I think the RJ to New York deal is NOT going to happen, I'm really afraid Boston or one of these other teams is going to step up and guarantee Clement a 4th season, giving him an offer too good to pass up.

Please let this deal get done ASAP.

DaveIsHere
12-17-2004, 09:41 AM
Well if you are ever in the South Suburbs I will treat you to some Buffalo Wild Wings, there is one right by my house.

ja1022
12-17-2004, 09:46 AM
Sure ChiSox, sure. I'll bet it's pure speculation on your part. But I like your odds on this one. If/when he signs, you come off as.......credible. But I still think you don't know dick on this one.

Rocky Soprano
12-17-2004, 09:49 AM
Well if you are ever in the South Suburbs I will treat you to some Buffalo Wild Wings, there is one right by my house.
MMMMM, Buffalo Wild. I love that place.

Which one do you go to?

1917
12-17-2004, 09:50 AM
I give this about a 20% chance of happening. The artical made mention that he would have no pressure with the Sox...in Boston he will take the heat....

Clement's beard
12-17-2004, 09:59 AM
I am going to peddle his chin hair at the cell should he sign here.

DaveIsHere
12-17-2004, 10:00 AM
MMMMM, Buffalo Wild. I love that place.

Which one do you go to?
They just opened one in Romeoville, Weber and Taylor, I can walk there in 3 minutes from my house, gotta love that........close enough to crawl home if needed:D:

MarkyBear
12-17-2004, 10:57 AM
This suspense is killing me. While I think the RJ to New York deal is NOT going to happen, I'm really afraid Boston or one of these other teams is going to step up and guarantee Clement a 4th season, giving him an offer too good to pass up.

Please let this deal get done ASAP.


Yeah how about it!?! Man I actually had a dream about all this last night, that's bad, get it done guys!!!
:?:

Mickster
12-17-2004, 10:58 AM
If im wrong I will apologize to u all, and of course buy a round, but i wont be wrong. What do I get if Im right?
I'll buy you some beers at Soxfest.... :gulp:

voodoochile
12-17-2004, 11:01 AM
If im wrong I will apologize to u all, and of course buy a round, but i wont be wrong. What do I get if Im right?
You don't get banned...:?:

SoxFan78
12-17-2004, 11:04 AM
You don't get banned...:?:
I like that rule, maybe that should be one of the rules on this board. If you post rumors that end up becoming wrong, you get banned for a certain amount of time.

Either that or be forced to watch a Bulls game.

Rocky Soprano
12-17-2004, 11:15 AM
They just opened one in Romeoville, Weber and Taylor, I can walk there in 3 minutes from my house, gotta love that........close enough to crawl home if needed:D:
Lucky Man! I go to the one in Schererville, IN. Its about a 5 minute drive.

Gotta love their HOT wings and Buffalo Chips with cheese, and a few cold ones to wash them down. :cool:

kittle42
12-17-2004, 11:16 AM
I like that rule, maybe that should be one of the rules on this board. If you post rumors that end up becoming wrong, you get banned for a certain amount of time.

Either that or be forced to watch a Bulls game.
Hey, the Bulls are entertaining!

Flight #24
12-17-2004, 11:20 AM
FWIW - Levine reported on ESPN what the Sox are still in the hunt and that they'd be a good fit with him and his attitude. he specifically mentioned that Coop & Clement would be a good matchup based on their personalities, plus Matt's very comfortable here.

He also said that he expected Clement to get in the 8-9 range/yr, but said nothing about what the Sox have offered.

He also was much less concerned about a potential power shortage on O. The way USCF plays, he thinks we'll see enough HRs out guys like Crede. he even said Podsednik could hit 17 (although I'd rather he hit less but get that OBP up).

Flight #24
12-17-2004, 11:25 AM
By the way - Levine talked about the Sox interest in AJ Krzykewski. What was intersting was no mention of a potential Clement signing impacting the ability to sign AJ.

MRKARNO
12-17-2004, 11:25 AM
I like that rule, maybe that should be one of the rules on this board. If you post rumors that end up becoming wrong, you get banned for a certain amount of time.

Either that or be forced to watch a Bulls game.

It's one thing to post a rumor with a source like Rosenthal, Gammons, etc, but to say "your friend told you so-and-so and you should believe it because I said so" is less reliable. Otis is the only one that we'll trust around here because his rumors turned out to have a grain of truth to them. ChiSoxTony will be given the same opportunity, but if he's wrong, he gets the boot. That makes sense.

BTW dont diss the Bulls, 6-6 over their last 12.

MRKARNO
12-17-2004, 11:27 AM
By the way - Levine talked about the Sox interest in AJ Krzykewski. What was intersting was no mention of a potential Clement signing impacting the ability to sign AJ.

I hope we sign Clement and it prevents us from signing Pierzynski. I do NOT want to see him on the White Sox. Jamie Burke is a better option.

Flight #24
12-17-2004, 11:29 AM
I hope we sign Clement and it prevents us from signing Pierzynski. I do NOT want to see him on the White Sox. Jamie Burke is a better option.
The AJ signing might not be great, but the interesting point IMO is that there's apparently enough salary for them to make a play for both. I'd rather they put the AJ money into making sure they get a pitcher, and it's quite possible that Levine just hasn't asked or doesn't know whether AJ is a backup move in the event they can't get an SP, but it's interesting since the Sox budget is usually the first and foremost topic.

Clement's beard
12-17-2004, 11:33 AM
9 million a year for Clement? That is a stiff price to pay for a guy with a below .500 record for his career. Wicked stuff, bad beard and a bad back. Buyer beware.

Ol' No. 2
12-17-2004, 11:33 AM
It's one thing to post a rumor with a source like Rosenthal, Gammons, etc, but to say "your friend told you so-and-so and you should believe it because I said so" is less reliable. Otis is the only one that we'll trust around here because his rumors turned out to have a grain of truth to them. ChiSoxTony will be given the same opportunity, but if he's wrong, he gets the boot. That makes sense.

BTW dont diss the Bulls, 6-6 over their last 12.I think I'd trust Kruzer's cousin over Peter Gammons.

Jjav829
12-17-2004, 11:35 AM
I think I'd trust Kruzer's cousin over Peter Gammons.
What if kruzer's cousin is Peter Gammons? :o:

Anyone else nervously awaiting the breaking news of where Clement chooses to sign? I know I am. I hope he doesn't drag this out into tomorrow.

nodiggity59
12-17-2004, 11:37 AM
It would be so great if we didn't pay more than $8mil.

Kogs35
12-17-2004, 11:40 AM
9 million a year for Clement? That is a stiff price to pay for a guy with a below .500 record for his career. Wicked stuff, bad beard and a bad back. Buyer beware.
he shaved

Palehose13
12-17-2004, 11:41 AM
What if kruzer's cousin is Peter Gammons? :o:

Anyone else nervously awaiting the breaking news of where Clement chooses to sign? I know I am. I hope he doesn't drag this out into tomorrow.
Yes. I just started Winter Break today and I have soo much that I want to do, but I'm kinda hanging around, refreshing, looking for some word....

DaveIsHere
12-17-2004, 11:45 AM
Yes. I just started Winter Break today and I have soo much that I want to do, but I'm kinda hanging around, refreshing, looking for some word....

You and my wife start break today, damn I still have to get up everyday:(:

You good teachers deserve it though, I could never do that job, you must be blessed

MRKARNO
12-17-2004, 11:47 AM
The AJ signing might not be great, but the interesting point IMO is that there's apparently enough salary for them to make a play for both. I'd rather they put the AJ money into making sure they get a pitcher, and it's quite possible that Levine just hasn't asked or doesn't know whether AJ is a backup move in the event they can't get an SP, but it's interesting since the Sox budget is usually the first and foremost topic.

I really think AJ would be a bad pickup any way you look at it. His defense and game calling are far worse than those of Davis and Burke. It's more important to have a catcher who is good defensively. Besides, I think AJ's offense is overrated. He had no power and cannot draw a walk.

ja1022
12-17-2004, 11:51 AM
I think I'd trust Kruzer's cousin over Peter Gammons.
What about ChiSoxTony's airport buddy or player's union insider??

Palehose13
12-17-2004, 11:56 AM
What about ChiSoxTony's airport buddy or player's union insider??
They're MY guys!

Thanks for the kind words Dave. Of course, the school board is like the white sox...my "vacation" is unpaid. :o:

Soxzilla
12-17-2004, 11:58 AM
If KW signs Clement ... this will be the best off-season I can remember.

So what will all the haters say if we sign Matt?

"KW overpayed":rolleyes:

Flight #24
12-17-2004, 11:59 AM
If KW signs Clement ... this will be the best off-season I can remember.

So what will all the haters say if we sign Matt?

"KW overpayed":rolleyes:
More like "We should have Carlos AND Clement.....AND Beltran - damn cheap bastages!"

DaveIsHere
12-17-2004, 12:00 PM
They're MY guys!

Thanks for the kind words Dave. Of course, the school board is like the white sox...my "vacation" is unpaid. :o:
Not to HiJack this thread, but you do not get your pay spread out over the year?? is that not an option? I know the distric my wife works at gives you a couple options, and got two check this period, one covering the next too weeks, maybe you should consider a move...JK

JoseCanseco6969
12-17-2004, 12:02 PM
he shaved
he usually grows it back for the season
but if we signed him, wouldnt it be hilarious when the sox fans would show up to the games with the fake goatees to piss off the cubs fans? I know id be a hipocrite if i wore one, but i think id do it anyway...especially if he pitches good

munchman33
12-17-2004, 12:03 PM
Bruce Levine, according to the ESPN updates, say Clement's down to four teams: White Sox, Indians, Boston, and Angels.

SoxFan78
12-17-2004, 12:03 PM
If KW signs Clement ... this will be the best off-season I can remember.

So what will all the haters say if we sign Matt?

"KW overpayed":rolleyes:
The sox should of gotten RJ, Clemens, Pedro, Benson and Pavano! Clement is a bust! DIE KW!

JoseCanseco6969
12-17-2004, 12:05 PM
Bruce Levine, according to the ESPN updates, say Clement's down to four teams: White Sox, Indians, Boston, and Angels.
I sure hope this gets done before i have to work...it seems we make every deal while im working and I dont even have a set schedule!

Clement's beard
12-17-2004, 12:06 PM
If Clement signs here, how do you stack the rotation? Is he 3rd or 4th?

DaveIsHere
12-17-2004, 12:06 PM
Well...if he is down to for teams, that is a lie as we all know ChiSoxTony said that we have him pending approval of the contract:D:

DaveIsHere
12-17-2004, 12:07 PM
If Clement signs here, how do you stack the rotation? Is he 3rd or 4th?
I would do Buerhle, Garcia, Clement, Contreras, Garland

munchman33
12-17-2004, 12:08 PM
I would do Buerhle, Garcia, Clement, Contreras, GarlandI'm salavating.

Get it done Kenny!!!

Incidently, this is the best morning to catch ESPN radio. Moronatti's got the day off.

DaveIsHere
12-17-2004, 12:10 PM
I'm salavating.

Get it done Kenny!!!
Tell me about it, if we got him, this would be the first time in a long time that we had a really kick ass rotation.................pitching and defense wins, my peeps........pitching and defense

kittle42
12-17-2004, 12:12 PM
I really hope this doesn't come down to the Sox offering, say, 7 mil and another team offering 8.

7 to 9, I can see - 7 to 8...ugh.

Palehose13
12-17-2004, 12:15 PM
I really hope this doesn't come down to the Sox offering, say, 7 mil and another team offering 8.

7 to 9, I can see - 7 to 8...ugh.
Seriously! When you're talking that much money....what's another million?!?!?!

voodoochile
12-17-2004, 12:16 PM
Seriously! When you're talking that much money....what's another million?!?!?!\

:reinsy
":o:"

anewman35
12-17-2004, 12:17 PM
I really hope this doesn't come down to the Sox offering, say, 7 mil and another team offering 8.

7 to 9, I can see - 7 to 8...ugh.
His agent CLAIMS that money won't be the issue. Who knows if that's true.

Flight #24
12-17-2004, 12:19 PM
His agent CLAIMS that money won't be the issue. Who knows if that's true.
Not uprooting your family and newborn to move across the country, being in a relatively lower pressure situation, & with a pitching coach who Levine says is a good fit personality-wise (I'm assuming that Clement's met Coop).....hopefully that would outweigh an extra .5-1mil.

PorkChopExpress
12-17-2004, 12:21 PM
His agent CLAIMS that money won't be the issue. Who knows if that's true.
That'll only be true if two offers are close. If Boston offers 10-11 million per year because they are desperate to sign a pitcher, which is not unbelievable, then a 7-8 million per year might not cut it despite the quality of life that comes with it.

Bobby Thigpen
12-17-2004, 12:21 PM
I'd go Buehrle, Garcia, Clement, Garland, Contreras. At least until Contreras can show everyone some level of consistency. He looks wonderful one start, and then sucks the next one. I was at the KC game in KC that was his first with the Sox and he was dominating, but he is very inconsistent.


I think getting Clement allows the Sox to take a so so year from at least a couple of their starters and still win the division.

Soxzilla
12-17-2004, 12:22 PM
I would do Buerhle, Garcia, Clement, Contreras, GarlandCouldn't agree more. I'd put Clement ahead of Contreras because as repeated ad nausem, Clement will give us a better chance to win EVERY day. I think going into the all star break, Clement never gave up more than 4 runs, and never exited before the sixth. Whereas, while Contreras can dominate (especially the AL Central, he owns those tigers!), he can also suck it up hard (AL West???). So this would be the best move.

I seriously don't think we will have one starter under 10 wins and over a 4.7 ERA.

Someone quote me on that and put it into the vault.:D:

EDIT - Bobby, the only way I'd put Garland in front of Contreras is if there is a concern the mental midget would flip out being considered the 5th starter on this rotation ... which wouldn't really suprise me. Then again, it could also reveal to him that right now it's put up or shut up ... if he doesn't perform to standards now, he might be on some other teams AAA system. With Parque.

voodoochile
12-17-2004, 12:22 PM
Not uprooting your family and newborn to move across the country, being in a relatively lower pressure situation, & with a pitching coach who Levine says is a good fit personality-wise (I'm assuming that Clement's met Coop).....hopefully that would outweigh an extra .5-1mil.
Hope you are right, but if the Sox are at $7M and some team across country is at $9M, it will have an impact on his decision. That's a per year figure and an extra $6M over the next 3 years will go a LONG way toward fixing "quality of life issues".

MushMouth
12-17-2004, 12:23 PM
Not uprooting your family and newborn to move across the country, being in a relatively lower pressure situation, & with a pitching coach who Levine says is a good fit personality-wise (I'm assuming that Clement's met Coop).....hopefully that would outweigh an extra .5-1mil.

I hope you're right! Even my Cub friends have essentially said that Clement's upside is outstanding, sickest slider in the bigs possibly and is a #1 starter on most staffs.

Ol' No. 2
12-17-2004, 12:24 PM
Couldn't agree more. I'd put Clement ahead of Contreras because as repeated ad nausem, Clement will give us a better chance to win EVERY day. I think going into the all star break, Clement never gave up more than 4 runs, and never exited before the sixth. Whereas, while Contreras can dominate (especially the AL Central, he owns those tigers!), he can also suck it up hard (AL West???). So this would be the best move.

I seriously don't think we will have one starter under 10 wins and over a 4.7 ERA.

Someone quote me on that and put it into the vault.:D:I'd probably be tempted to put Buehrle between Garcia and Clement, since both are hard throwing SO kind of guys. Putting Buehrle in between keeps the opposition off-balance a little more.

MushMouth
12-17-2004, 12:24 PM
Hope you are right, but if the Sox are at $7M and some team across country is at $9M, it will have an impact on his decision. That's a per year figure and an extra $6M over the next 3 years will go a LONG way toward fixing "quality of life issues".


Hopefully his wife is pro-Chicago, that would make a big difference.

MeanFish
12-17-2004, 12:25 PM
I hate to say it, but they ARE Cub fans...they think *every* pitcher that plays for them is a #1 on most staffs.

Clement's beard
12-17-2004, 12:25 PM
Here is something that no one has touched on. If Clement is so good, why did the cubs basically let him walk? He seems to be getting plenty of interest from many teams for a guy who was just thrown away by the cubs.

DaveIsHere
12-17-2004, 12:26 PM
I'd probably be tempted to put Buehrle between Garcia and Clement, since both are hard throwing SO kind of guys. Putting Buehrle in between keeps the opposition off-balance a little more.
Yeah Garcia at the top spot isn't a bad isea either............boy I hope we have to make difficult decision like this, it would be very very nice trying to figure out who is going to be the #1 starter:D:

Jjav829
12-17-2004, 12:28 PM
I hope you're right! Even my Cub friends have essentially said that Clement's upside is outstanding, sickest slider in the bigs possibly and is a #1 starter on most staffs.
I think Francisco Rodriguez would like to have a word with your Cubs fan friends.

Clement isn't a #1 except on crappy staffs like the Devil Rays, but he's certainly an upper rotation starter.

*attempts to lower hopes in case Sox don't land Clement*

Flight #24
12-17-2004, 12:30 PM
Here is something that no one has touched on. If Clement is so good, why did the cubs basically let him walk? He seems to be getting plenty of interest from many teams for a guy who was just thrown away by the cubs.
Easy - they're at $95mil now with holes remaining. Had they resigned Matt to even a "cheap" $7mil/yr, they're over $100 & still need some help in the bullpen and LF. They also have (had?) hopes of making a run at Beltran or maybe Drew.

Basically them letting Clement go for nothing to free up payroll for other positions is not that far off from the Sox trading Lee for some good players, but opbviously less total talent in order to free up $$$ to use for a guy like Clement.

Mickster
12-17-2004, 12:30 PM
Here is something that no one has touched on. If Clement is so good, why did the cubs basically let him walk? He seems to be getting plenty of interest from many teams for a guy who was just thrown away by the cubs.
Few things.

1. Clement is due a big raise in pay.
2. They have to clear some salary to pay for their outfield wishlist. (Beltran, Maggs?, JD Drew)
3. They have a lot of players that will be due raises (Ramirez, Patterson, Maddux, bullpen, etc.)
4. They feel that they have a strong enough staff and minor league system to be able to absorb the loss of a SP as opposed to a position player to achieve #2 above.

WSox8404
12-17-2004, 12:32 PM
You know what gets me? Its the fact that if we lose out on Clement, this loss could have been avoided by throwing in 1 more million per year. We have been trying to get a decent fifth starter for how long now. If we had a fifth starter the last three years we probably would have won the division. So what the hell.....give him 1 more million. Its not going to break the bank. Why is a 71 million dollar payroll so much worse than a 70 million dollar one? This is what drives me nuts. This timid cheap BS.

Wealz
12-17-2004, 12:33 PM
I would do Buerhle, Garcia, Clement, Contreras, Garland
I think Clement would be the #1 of the staff if he signs.

voodoochile
12-17-2004, 12:34 PM
I think Clement would be the #1 of the staff if he signs.
Based on what? Price?

Mickster
12-17-2004, 12:34 PM
I think Clement would be the #1 of the staff if he signs.
Agreed. He could easily be a #1 thru #3.

Over By There
12-17-2004, 12:34 PM
You know what gets me? Its the fact that if we lose out on Clement, this loss could have been avoided by throwing in 1 more million per year. We have been trying to get a decent fifth starter for how long now. If we had a fifth starter the last three years we probably would have won the division. So what the hell.....give him 1 more million. Its not going to break the bank. Why is a 71 million dollar payroll so much worse than a 70 million dollar one? This is what drives me nuts. This timid cheap BS.
Can we at least wait to hear what happens before people start complaining. Jeez. :rolleyes:

Soxzilla
12-17-2004, 12:36 PM
Agreed. He could easily be a #1 thru #3.
He's a good pitcher ... but c'mon, that would be like putting him above Wood or Prior.

Wealz
12-17-2004, 12:36 PM
Based on what? Price?
Yes.

anewman35
12-17-2004, 12:37 PM
You know what gets me? Its the fact that if we lose out on Clement, this loss could have been avoided by throwing in 1 more million per year. We have been trying to get a decent fifth starter for how long now. If we had a fifth starter the last three years we probably would have won the division. So what the hell.....give him 1 more million. Its not going to break the bank. Why is a 71 million dollar payroll so much worse than a 70 million dollar one? This is what drives me nuts. This timid cheap BS.
See, this is the kind of BS that drives me crazy. You have NO IDEA if this is true. One, he hasn't even went anywhere else yet. Two, you have no idea what teams are actually offering. Three, you have no idea what other factors he's taking into account, and if the White Sox could do anything about those factors. And yet you decide the White Sox are timid and cheap. The White Sox are not always the bad guys, you know.

voodoochile
12-17-2004, 12:37 PM
Yes.
That's a ridiculous reason to put someone at the top of your rotation. Still, won't Garcia make more than him either way?

Flight #24
12-17-2004, 12:37 PM
I think Clement would be the #1 of the staff if he signs.
Until it actually happens, then all of a sudden he'll be "at best a #3 on any good team, but the idiot Sox padi him like a #1"

MushMouth
12-17-2004, 12:38 PM
Here is something that no one has touched on. If Clement is so good, why did the cubs basically let him walk? He seems to be getting plenty of interest from many teams for a guy who was just thrown away by the cubs.


Again, from discussions with cub fans, they essentially said they have so much pitching (and lets be honest, they do: Zambrano, Prior, Maddux, Wood and a good minor league pitching system - and yes I realize Wood is overrated) they needed the cash to replace Sosa and Alou in the outfield.

Palehose13
12-17-2004, 12:38 PM
I think Clement would be the #1 of the staff if he signs.
:smokin:

voodoochile
12-17-2004, 12:38 PM
See, this is the kind of BS that drives me crazy. You have NO IDEA if this is true. One, he hasn't even went anywhere else yet. Two, you have no idea what teams are actually offering. Three, you have no idea what other factors he's taking into account, and if the White Sox could do anything about those factors. And yet you decide the White Sox are timid and cheap. The White Sox are not always the bad guys, you know.
He did say "if". :?:

MushMouth
12-17-2004, 12:38 PM
He's a good pitcher ... but c'mon, that would be like putting him above Wood or Prior.

Without a doubt, he's #3 on our staff, I don't think that's a question.

santo=dorf
12-17-2004, 12:39 PM
Based on what? Price?
Of course, that's all Wealz cares about when it comes to pitching staffs. See his trade "Contreras" thread.

WSox8404
12-17-2004, 12:40 PM
He did say "if". :?:Thats what I was thinking. IF this happens and we lose him, it might have been avoided if we would have given him 1 more mil. Thats all. IF.

eshunn2001
12-17-2004, 12:43 PM
I think Clement would be the #1 of the staff if he signs.Great, so the Cubs 4th starter is good enough to be our #1. That is comforting. No, he would not be our #1 he would be #3. I will take him though. The less I have to see Munoz/Diaz the better.

Over By There
12-17-2004, 12:43 PM
Thats what I was thinking. IF this happens and we lose him, it might have been avoided if we would have given him 1 more mil. Thats all. IF.
And if my aunt had you-know-whats, she'd be my uncle. :rolleyes:

kitekrazy
12-17-2004, 12:43 PM
I don't think the Sox should offer him more. Look at his career record and this guy is not worth 8-9 M. (69-75 with a 4.34 ERA) But since they threw 3M a year at Juan Uribe-why not?

anewman35
12-17-2004, 12:43 PM
He did say "if". :?:
He said "Its the fact that if we lose out on Clement, this loss could have been avoided by throwing in 1 more million per year." That statement implies that if we lose out on Clement, it was because of money. His agent made a statement that directly contradicts that line of thinking, and yet that is ignored and it's only because the White Sox are cheap and timid?

bestkosher
12-17-2004, 12:43 PM
relocation costs, Lets say the Bo sox sign clement, how much will it cost for him to relocate, I am guessing about 500K or more depending on on it he wants a mansion or just something nice, now if he stays in chicago relcoation cost zero, which could make up the difference between one offer and another

rdivaldi
12-17-2004, 12:44 PM
Again, from discussions with cub fans, they essentially said they have so much pitching (and lets be honest, they do: Zambrano, Prior, Maddux, Wood and a good minor league pitching system - and yes I realize Wood is overrated) they needed the cash to replace Sosa and Alou in the outfield.
Actually Flubbie fans are going to be in for a shock when they find out how massively overrated the pitching in their farm system is. It happens all the time with scouts and sites like BA. As soon as an organization has some success the "experts" immediately run to scrutinize every other prospect in their system. Thus, guys like Prior and Zambrano have caused every other prospect in their system to become overrated.

Book it...

Wealz
12-17-2004, 12:44 PM
Until it actually happens, then all of a sudden he'll be "at best a #3 on any good team, but the idiot Sox padi him like a #1"
Well, he'd be a #2 on a very good staff.

SpringfldFan
12-17-2004, 12:46 PM
See, this is the kind of BS that drives me crazy. You have NO IDEA if this is true. One, he hasn't even went anywhere else yet. Two, you have no idea what teams are actually offering. Three, you have no idea what other factors he's taking into account, and if the White Sox could do anything about those factors. And yet you decide the White Sox are timid and cheap. The White Sox are not always the bad guys, you know.Agreed. Also, what if the Sox the Sox up their offer to match Boston's, only to have Boston up their offer another million? In fact, say bidding goes on until Boston has offered 12 to the Sox' 11 million? The Sox would still lose out by a million, but what right would we have to complain?

-SfF

santo=dorf
12-17-2004, 12:49 PM
Well, he'd be a #2 on a very good staff.
So what does that say about our rotation if he's a #3? :cool:

Wealz
12-17-2004, 12:49 PM
That's a ridiculous reason to put someone at the top of your rotation. Still, won't Garcia make more than him either way?
It's more ridiculous to be paying your 4th best starter $6M and your 3rd best $3.4M.

anewman35
12-17-2004, 12:50 PM
It's more ridiculous to be paying your 4th best starter $6M and your 3rd best $3.4M.
Money shouldn't come into that equation. Talent should.

Wealz
12-17-2004, 12:51 PM
So what does that say about our rotation if he's a #3? :cool:
He wouldn't be.

Flight #24
12-17-2004, 12:53 PM
It's more ridiculous to be paying your 4th best starter $6M and your 3rd best $3.4M.
Not in the era of free agency. If you have a good young pitcher, they'll generally be paid less than anyone who signed an FA contract. You can't just rank guys by salary and say "overpaid" because someone's cheaper. It's all about who else you could have gotten in FA for that money.

Wealz
12-17-2004, 12:53 PM
Money shouldn't come into that equation. Talent should.
I think it shows that the front office screwed up royally when evaluating Contreras.

Wealz
12-17-2004, 12:54 PM
Not in the era of free agency. If you have a good young pitcher, they'll generally be paid less than anyone who signed an FA contract. You can't just rank guys by salary and say "overpaid" because someone's cheaper. It's all about who else you could have gotten in FA for that money.
In free agency, fine. None of the Sox starters were acquired that way though.

santo=dorf
12-17-2004, 12:54 PM
He wouldn't be.
*****.

Clement over either Buehrle or Garcia?

:bong:

Jurr
12-17-2004, 12:56 PM
I don't think the Sox should offer him more. Look at his career record and this guy is not worth 8-9 M. (69-75 with a 4.34 ERA) But since they threw 3M a year at Juan Uribe-why not?3 M a year at Juan is going to end up being an absolute STEAL. We've got the kid locked up hard core now, and he's got gold glove skills, a streaky but explosive bat (more experience will mean more consistency), and he could easily become a Tejada if he keeps working hard.

I agree that Clement is worth no more than 7.5 a year. Period. I'd rather take my chances with Grilli in the fifth spot and spend that extra cash on a catcher like Pierzynski and a utility guy like Cairo before I'd drop that whole wad on Clement. He's a breaking ball guy, and he tends to get into situations where he's not getting the bite on his stuff, which causes long evenings at the park. He is definitely an upgrade for our staff, but not at the kind of $$ that Radke is getting. Radke went for 9 M and so did Garcia. Radke is one of the most solid #2 pitchers in the league, and he'd be the absolute best 3 guy on any rotation in the league. Radke is MILES ahead of Clement, and if they're getting paid the same, that shows how warped the pay scale is right now.

If Clement uses his head, stays in Chicago, and takes a 7 M per contract, he's going to be on a solid rotation without the stresses of having to be one of the top dogs. He doesn't have the stuff to be one of the top dogs in the league, and that kind of stress would be his unmaking. We shouldn't get into a bidding war for a pitcher of his caliber.

HebrewHammer
12-17-2004, 12:58 PM
So has there been ANY movement at all? Any mention on 1000 or The Score? The waiting game sucks, let's play Hungry, Hungry Hippos.

santo=dorf
12-17-2004, 12:59 PM
So has there been ANY movement at all? Any mention on 1000 or The Score? The waiting game sucks, let's play Hungry, Hungry Hippos.
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

I'm sure there is a site that will let us play online.

rdivaldi
12-17-2004, 01:00 PM
The waiting game sucks, let's play Hungry, Hungry Hippos.
:rolling:

Best Simpsons episode EVER....

Lip Man 1
12-17-2004, 01:04 PM
Anewman:

For one of the rare times I agree with your comments.

The 'hungry,hungry hippos Simpson story by the way was called 'Mr. Plow.' (Gues voice: Linda Ronstadt)

Lip

HebrewHammer
12-17-2004, 01:05 PM
:rolling:

Best Simpsons episode EVER....It's up there, definitely up there. I'd have to go with the one where Homer, Mr. Burns and Smithers escape from the IRS to Cuba, or the Run, Lola Run episode, you can't go wrong with any of those, much like a rotation of Garcia, Clement and Buerhle!

Jurr
12-17-2004, 01:07 PM
This whole Clement thing is a microcosm of some of the short-sightedness of a few fans around here. Some people think that we should spend 9 million a year on Clement. He had a pretty high ERA in the NL!!!! When he wasn't locating his stuff certain days, he always could get out of it by K'ing that pitcher. What happens in the AL? Remember the Sox and the beating they put on him?

Clement is a good pitcher, don't get me wrong. However, anything over 7 to 7.5 is overpaying. The Dodgers, Mets, and Yankees do this overpaying crap all of the time, and end up having to take a chunk of the salary on just to trade these guys away when they realize they screwed up. Contreras, Brown, Benson, Mo Vaughn, Dreifort,.......it goes on and on. That is not the type of efficiency we can afford to live with. We don't have 250 M to spend like the Yanks, so we've gotta be smart. We may have some holes. Grilli may be our 5 guy. However, I would much rather have him at the 5 and take my chances (while having the money to get some more bats), than strap myself financially with this 9 million dollar per year contract to Clement.

I know you've gotta take risks, but come on. In this new day and age (now that 'roids are fading out), the good hitter is going to be at more of a premium than a good pitcher. People have been paying crazy money for pitchers because they needed a guy that could stand up to these 'roid pumped mashers day in and day out. Now that the bat speeds will drop a little, the more average pitchers will have a little more success. You need to be adding bats right now instead of dumping all the resources on a pitcher..especially a guy that would be no more than a 3.

Mickster
12-17-2004, 01:09 PM
He's a good pitcher ... but c'mon, that would be like putting him above Wood or Prior.
Tell me again what Woods or Prior did last year? Come to think of it, what has Woods done the last few years??

santo=dorf
12-17-2004, 01:13 PM
Tell me again what Woods or Prior did last year? Come to think of it, what has Woods done the last few years??
He struck out 20 guys in a game when he was rookie of the year, therefore he is the most dominating right hander in the game. Just ask any scrubs fan. :rolleyes:

Flight #24
12-17-2004, 01:16 PM
It's up there, definitely up there. I'd have to go with the one where Homer, Mr. Burns and Smithers escape from the IRS to Cuba, or the Run, Lola Run episode, you can't go wrong with any of those, much like a rotation of Garcia, Clement and Buerhle!
Hands down - Homer jumps the Springfield Gorge. I could watch that scene a million times and still literally fall out of my chair laughing.

Mickster
12-17-2004, 01:16 PM
He struck out 20 guys in a game when he was rookie of the year, therefore he is the most dominating right hander in the game. Just ask and scrubs fan. :rolleyes:
Yep. And since then? Garland has even won more games in a season than Kerry.

Mickster
12-17-2004, 01:17 PM
Hands down - Homer jumps the Springfield Gorge. I could watch that scene a million times and still literally fall out of my chair laughing.Nope. Gay steel mill! BEST. EPISODE. EVER. :D:

Oops. :offtopic:

Jabroni
12-17-2004, 01:23 PM
Bruce Levine on ESPN 1000 said that the White Sox have increased their offer and talking seriously with Clement.

HebrewHammer
12-17-2004, 01:24 PM
Nope. Gay steel mill! BEST. EPISODE. EVER. :D:

Oops. :offtopic:You mean the Wrigleyville episode?:tongue:

MushMouth
12-17-2004, 01:24 PM
Hands down - Homer jumps the Springfield Gorge. I could watch that scene a million times and still literally fall out of my chair laughing.

Just to point out one of my favorite moments (not episodes) but Homer "living each day as if its' his last" by drinking beer and sobbing about how he's too young to die makes me laugh like a fool each time I see it.

Ol' No. 2
12-17-2004, 01:28 PM
That's a ridiculous reason to put someone at the top of your rotation. Still, won't Garcia make more than him either way?Do we count the money the Yanks are paying for Contreras? He could be the #1.:D:

Palehose13
12-17-2004, 01:33 PM
Bruce Levine on ESPN 1000 said that the White Sox have increased their offer and talking seriously with Clement.
http://www.seinfeld-fan.net/pictures/elaine/elaine_benes020.jpg

Get Out!

Jurr
12-17-2004, 01:34 PM
Great...we're going to pay 9 M for Clement and strap ourselves.

CHISOXFAN13
12-17-2004, 01:35 PM
Great...we're going to pay 9 M for Clement and strap ourselves.

Or we can set ourselves up with the best rotation and bullpen in the division and enjoy the ride to the playoffs without worrying about payroll for once.

Mickster
12-17-2004, 01:35 PM
Great...we're going to pay 9 M for Clement and strap ourselves.
Jurr, read your signature.

Jjav829
12-17-2004, 01:37 PM
Come on, Clement! You know you want to be here. Just accept the damn offer and let's schedule a press conference. :D:

He's probably out Christmas shopping with the wife while hundreds of Sox fans sit here eagerly awaiting his response.

santo=dorf
12-17-2004, 01:37 PM
Jurr, read your signature.
:rolling:

Took the words right out of my mouth.

MushMouth
12-17-2004, 01:38 PM
Great...we're going to pay 9 M for Clement and strap ourselves.


Strap ourselves how?

I'm never gonna complain about the White Sox spending money on quality players. The market determines value, not punditry or assumptions. If that's what it takes to get him, then I'm comfortable paying him. It's not like we're coming at him with an absurdly high contract - we're essentially paying what it takes to get him on the southside and not in Anaheim or Fenway.

BRDSR
12-17-2004, 01:46 PM
Agreed. He could easily be a #1 thru #3.
Only if he starts 90 games...I think Clement would be our #3 guy, and I do like the idea of putting Buerhle between Garcia and Clement. However, I also want to see Buerhle on April 4th. I think he deserves it.

Jurr
12-17-2004, 01:50 PM
Jurr, read your signature.Hey...I'm all about change. I would love the signing of Matt Clement. I don't know if I'd pay TOO much to get a guy. You've gotta see where I'm coming from. Do you think Clement is worth 9 M a year? I just don't want to see the Sox go crazy to get a guy, knowing that Jerry Reinsdorf wouldn't allow any more room to pick up a possible catcher or second baseman. Those spots are just as important (if not moreso) than a guy that helps you one day out of 5.

Don't get me wrong. Clement would be a great signing, as long as we don't get stupid and break the bank to get him. The Sox don't have the crazy funds to get Clement and also get help elsewhere. If we end up signing him, but we have to lose Paulie in a cost cutting move, then we messed up.

Palehose13
12-17-2004, 01:50 PM
Strap ourselves how?

VC...just to let you know I am really controlling myself now. :tongue:

What we need to do is get all our thoughts together at the same time hoping that Clement will pick the White Sox...that stuff works, right?

voodoochile
12-17-2004, 01:52 PM
Great...we're going to pay 9 M for Clement and strap ourselves.
Oh no the Sox will be strapped with 5 solid pitchers for the next 2-3 years. What will we do? WHAT WILL WE DO?!??!?

Jurr
12-17-2004, 01:53 PM
My sincerest hopes and wishes are that Clement signs with us for 7.5 per and gives us a little breathing room for something else if we need to.

Palehose13
12-17-2004, 01:55 PM
Oh no the Sox will be strapped with 5 solid pitchers for the next 2-3 years. What will we do? WHAT WILL WE DO?!??!?
Win? :?: :tongue:

Wealz
12-17-2004, 01:56 PM
Oh no the Sox will be strapped with 5 solid pitchers for the next 2-3 years. What will we do? WHAT WILL WE DO?!??!?
Contreras is not a solid pitcher.

Flight #24
12-17-2004, 01:57 PM
Win? :?: :tongue:
:o:


:wink:


:redneck


:gulp:


:supernana:

BRDSR
12-17-2004, 01:57 PM
Tell me again what Woods or Prior did last year? Come to think of it, what has Woods done the last few years??
Theres no S in Wood, but I agree with your sentiment. Wood is maybe a slightly better Garland with more injuries. If he hadn't struck out 20 Astros in a single afternoon half a decade ago he would never get the same hype (or money) that he currently enjoys.

santo=dorf
12-17-2004, 01:58 PM
Contreras is not a solid pitcher.Do you have a problem with him being at the bottom of the rotation? :?:
*prepares for salary argument*

Jurr
12-17-2004, 01:58 PM
The idea of having Clement, Buehrle, Garland, Contreras, and Garcia is mind boggling. Definitely.

I just want everyone to voice their opinion on this. If we do get Clement, are you comfortable with Davis and Burke at C, and Willie Harris at 2B?

A Clement signing will lock that roster in (most likely) unless we move another big salary like Paul Konerko.

This is actually a good topic for discussion. If we've got that rotation, is everyone happy with the overall makeup of the club?

voodoochile
12-17-2004, 01:59 PM
Contreras is not a solid pitcher.
Sez Wealz...

Well thanks for the insight.

So, let me get this straight. Contreras (who you hate and is already signed) sucks, so the Sox should do nothing to bump him down the rotation, but leave him in the 3-4 hole.

Does anyone else get this logic? :?:

voodoochile
12-17-2004, 02:00 PM
Win? :?: :tongue:
Now that would truly suck...:rolleyes:

Palehose13
12-17-2004, 02:02 PM
Now that would truly suck...:rolleyes:
Some people wouldn't know what to do!

and Jurr...yes, i would be comfortable with Harris at 2B and Burke/Davis at C. IMO it makes for a good defensive infield...AND if we are "in the race" come June/July KW may look to upgrade one of those positions at that time. as long as he isn't going to get Robbie Alomar for the third time...

Mickster
12-17-2004, 02:03 PM
Theres no S in Wood, but I agree with your sentiment.
Um...... Teal? :?:

Mickster
12-17-2004, 02:05 PM
Hey...I'm all about change. I would love the signing of Matt Clement. I don't know if I'd pay TOO much to get a guy. You've gotta see where I'm coming from. Do you think Clement is worth 9 M a year?
It doesn't matter what I think. It matters what the 29 other MLB teams (or the 4 other teams bidding on him) think he's worth. Nothing more. Nothing less.

BRDSR
12-17-2004, 02:08 PM
The idea of having Clement, Buehrle, Garland, Contreras, and Garcia is mind boggling. Definitely.

I just want everyone to voice their opinion on this. If we do get Clement, are you comfortable with Davis and Burke at C, and Willie Harris at 2B?

A Clement signing will lock that roster in (most likely) unless we move another big salary like Paul Konerko.

This is actually a good topic for discussion. If we've got that rotation, is everyone happy with the overall makeup of the club?
I am comfortable with Willie Harris at 2B for the same reason that I'm still comfortable with Crede at 3B. Not because I'm particularly impressed with what they've shown me but because I'm interested in the type of player either of them could become. With a little more discipline at the plate and a little more discipline on the basepaths, Willie Harris could have a .350 OBP and steal 40 bases. I'm not saying that he will, but I'm saying that he could, and I think that possibility is worth giving him a second year at 2B, especially because it means that we don't need to spend money. As far as Burke and Davis at catcher, I'm not particularly excited about that. I think Burke did a great job in his role before Olivo was traded, but when he became that platoon starter his production seemed to decline. I also don't see a lot of improvement from Davis, he seems to be at the point in his career where his numbers will pretty much freeze. All that said, a Clement signing would make me comfortable going into spring training. The idea of having a set bullpen and rotation on February 15th is absolutely mind boggling. I would rather take my chances at catcher and be solid in the rotation than anything.

soxfan43
12-17-2004, 02:08 PM
as much as we all want clement, hes not worth it at 8 mill+ a year. the sox would be better of getting a utility infielder for cheap and going after perez or waiting till spring training. clement is good, but hes not that good. but if he's gonna sign, it will be today since there is already a press conference at the cell for some softball league, so hey jerry can save some money by only having one press conference, every little bit counts with him.

kittle42
12-17-2004, 02:08 PM
Great...we're going to pay 9 M for Clement and strap ourselves.
The World Series is not decided on a BCS type system that quantifies something like "fiscal responsibility" in a multitude of factors.

Wins are all that matter.

Flight #24
12-17-2004, 02:08 PM
Some people wouldn't know what to do!

and Jurr...yes, i would be comfortable with Harris at 2B and Burke/Davis at C. IMO it makes for a good defensive infield...AND if we are "in the race" come June/July KW may look to upgrade one of those positions at that time. as long as he isn't going to get Robbie Alomar for the third time...
That's another thing about the reshaping of this team. The areas that we might need to shore up at midseason are on offense, an are that I think is a lot easier to fill than SP.

Plus, there's the whole nontender FA crew coming out next week. There are going to be some options there to be had relatively cheaply that can upgrade 2B/3B at a lower cost.

Soxzilla
12-17-2004, 02:09 PM
Theres no S in Wood, but I agree with your sentiment. Wood is maybe a slightly better Garland with more injuries. If he hadn't struck out 20 Astros in a single afternoon half a decade ago he would never get the same hype (or money) that he currently enjoys.
Well, he did pitch pretty good in the playoffs that one year (Despite getting knocked around in game 7). And he has only had one year with an ERA above 4.

But who's counting.

Of course I'd compare his playoff performance to that of a Sox pitcher ... but none of our current rotation have seen a playoff game in a WS uni.:rolleyes:

Get over yourself.

MRKARNO
12-17-2004, 02:09 PM
Bruce Levine on ESPN 1000 said that the White Sox have increased their offer and talking seriously with Clement.
:D::D::D:

If it takes 3 years 27 million to sign Clement, I'd do it so that we could have Buehrle, Garcia and Clement at the top of our rotation guarenteed if we want to until 2007. Clement's stats and career arent that unlike those of Jason Schmidt who managed to lower his walks in 2003 and had a lot of success. Clement's K/9 is about the same of Schmidt's. The move to the Cell shouldnt be as bad as some here have suggested because Wrigley is about as much of a Home Run park as the Cell (or at least it was last year) and Clement is a groundball pitcher. Clement has actually had more success at Wrigley than outside it. If it comes down to less than 5 million dollars of a difference, then I think we have to do it because I cant see many other good moves that the White Sox could make with the money differential.

Jjav829
12-17-2004, 02:09 PM
Some people wouldn't know what to do!

and Jurr...yes, i would be comfortable with Harris at 2B and Burke/Davis at C. IMO it makes for a good defensive infield...AND if we are "in the race" come June/July KW may look to upgrade one of those positions at that time. as long as he isn't going to get Robbie Alomar for the third time...:KW
"Shhh, you'll drive up his price!"

And I agree. I am happy with Harris at 2B and Burke/Davis catching if we get Clement. The upgrade from Clement over Grilli/Blowenweis is greater than the upgrade from Burke/Davis to Prickzynski. Besides, we might still be able to grab a 2B on the cheap. The 2B market could get flooded come Monday.

Ol' No. 2
12-17-2004, 02:09 PM
The idea of having Clement, Buehrle, Garland, Contreras, and Garcia is mind boggling. Definitely.

I just want everyone to voice their opinion on this. If we do get Clement, are you comfortable with Davis and Burke at C, and Willie Harris at 2B?

A Clement signing will lock that roster in (most likely) unless we move another big salary like Paul Konerko.

This is actually a good topic for discussion. If we've got that rotation, is everyone happy with the overall makeup of the club?I'm good to go with these guys. It's possible that at least one of them won't cut it, or perhaps someone else will falter. Or someone may get hurt. Problem is, there's no way of knowing which one NOW. All teams make mid-season adjustments to fill a hole.

How long until pitchers and catchers report? Let's light the fuse on this baby and see where it lands.

duke of dorwood
12-17-2004, 02:11 PM
Just sign him, like they should have signed Vizquel-you guys should talk like fans that want to win-and not worry about rich people spending money

Mickster
12-17-2004, 02:12 PM
as much as we all want clement, hes not worth it at 8 mill+ a year. the sox would be better of getting a utility infielder for cheap and going after perez or waiting till spring training. clement is good, but hes not that good. but if he's gonna sign, it will be today since there is already a press conference at the cell for some softball league, so hey jerry can save some money by only having one press conference, every little bit counts with him.
I don't agree with your logic at all. Assuming Clement signs with the Angels, for example, do you honestly think that the price of O. Perez will remain where it is right now? Boston will then make him their top priority and drive up his price, and so on, and so forth, until all of the decent FA SP are signed.

Wealz
12-17-2004, 02:12 PM
Sez Wealz...

Well thanks for the insight.

So, let me get this straight. Contreras (who you hate and is already signed) sucks, so the Sox should do nothing to bump him down the rotation, but leave him in the 3-4 hole.

Does anyone else get this logic? :?:
Wiliams is so quick to pat his scouts on the back that he should just sink or swim with the original assessment of Contreras at the time of the trade -- that he can be a top-of-the-rotation starter and use that money to fix the holes on offense.

If Clement signs he's the best pitcher on the team and that's a good thing, but this offense as currently constructed, is not very good.

MarkyBear
12-17-2004, 02:13 PM
Sez Wealz...

Well thanks for the insight.

So, let me get this straight. Contreras (who you hate and is already signed) sucks, so the Sox should do nothing to bump him down the rotation, but leave him in the 3-4 hole.

Does anyone else get this logic? :?:

IMO and I know this scenario would be more than highly unlikely...

I'd like to see the Sox get 2 solid pitchers, like the Clement type, 3 and 4's, then have Garland and Contreras battle it out for the 5th spot in spring training with the loser getting "demoted" to the pen or shipped off for upgrades/depth at key/weaker positions...

OG4LIFE
12-17-2004, 02:13 PM
Folks... i've been on the clement bandwagon since the lee trade. another SP is what makes or breaks that trade. But... there is so much about this that screams "TODD RITCHIE" to me...

lets face it, this guy is a number 3 starter, and he's probably going to get #1 SP money... his best career finish was 12-11 in 2002, there are question marks about his shoulder, and given that he's 30, in general most ballplayers don't improve too much past their 30th b-day (yes there are some exceptions, before someone jumps on my back, im talking about significant IMPROVEMENT)

i dunno... as his price tag rises, Odalis Perez keeps looking better and better:

he'll probably come cheaper
he's younger (not peaked yet)
he's LEFT HANDED
no health concerns...

voodoochile
12-17-2004, 02:15 PM
IMO and I know this scenario would be more than highly unlikely...

I'd like to see the Sox get 2 solid pitchers, like the Clement type, 3 and 4's, then have Garland and Contreras battle it out for the 5th spot in spring training with the loser getting "demoted" to the pen or shipped off for upgrades/depth at key/weaker positions...
Baby steps, MB... Baby Steps. Let the team get 5 solid starters before hoping for a 6th...

Besides, they still have Hermanson, Cotts, Grilli and everyone else at AAA and below to throw at that 5th slot too, though hopefully it doesn't come to that.

Ol' No. 2
12-17-2004, 02:17 PM
Folks... i've been on the clement bandwagon since the lee trade. another SP is what makes or breaks that trade. But... there is so much about this that screams "TODD RITCHIE" to me...

lets face it, this guy is a number 3 starter, and he's probably going to get #1 SP money... his best career finish was 12-11 in 2002, there are question marks about his shoulder, and given that he's 30, in general most ballplayers don't improve too much past their 30th b-day (yes there are some exceptions, before someone jumps on my back, im talking about significant IMPROVEMENT)

i dunno... as his price tag rises, Odalis Perez keeps looking better and better:

he'll probably come cheaper
he's younger (not peaked yet)
he's LEFT HANDED
no health concerns...If I had to choose, I'd choose Perez, too, mainly because I'm concerned about Clement's shoulder. But he's not going to come cheaper. After Clement signs, Perez' price will go up. It wouldn't surprise me if, when the smoke clears, he winds up getting MORE money than Clement.

wdelaney72
12-17-2004, 02:17 PM
It's not paying too much when the market is calling for Clement to get $9 million a year.

We have 2 options here. Get the best guy available and pay him his market value, or continue on like we've been doing with ?? in the rotation. Guess what, the latter hasn't worked for us. "Overpaying" for a good SP is a much better option than throwing Jason Grilli or Scott Schoenweis out there as the #5 starting pitcher and hoping to god that they can find some kind of magic.

Hey...I'm all about change. I would love the signing of Matt Clement. I don't know if I'd pay TOO much to get a guy. You've gotta see where I'm coming from. Do you think Clement is worth 9 M a year? I just don't want to see the Sox go crazy to get a guy, knowing that Jerry Reinsdorf wouldn't allow any more room to pick up a possible catcher or second baseman. Those spots are just as important (if not moreso) than a guy that helps you one day out of 5.

Don't get me wrong. Clement would be a great signing, as long as we don't get stupid and break the bank to get him. The Sox don't have the crazy funds to get Clement and also get help elsewhere. If we end up signing him, but we have to lose Paulie in a cost cutting move, then we messed up.

Flight #24
12-17-2004, 02:17 PM
Folks... i've been on the clement bandwagon since the lee trade. another SP is what makes or breaks that trade. But... there is so much about this that screams "TODD RITCHIE" to me...

lets face it, this guy is a number 3 starter, and he's probably going to get #1 SP money... his best career finish was 12-11 in 2002, there are question marks about his shoulder, and given that he's 30, in general most ballplayers don't improve too much past their 30th b-day (yes there are some exceptions, before someone jumps on my back, im talking about significant IMPROVEMENT)

i dunno... as his price tag rises, Odalis Perez keeps looking better and better:

he'll probably come cheaper
he's younger (not peaked yet)
he's LEFT HANDED
no health concerns...
We all need to come to the realization that "#2-3 SP money" is somewhere in the 7-10mil range. Kris Benson, Carl Pavano, Jaret Wright, Matt Clement - all will make in that range. Odalis perez is almost certainly going to come closer to 8-9mil than to 6mil.

I know that 1-2 years ago we'd have thought the "right" $$$ for these types would be 5-7mil, but that just doesn't seem to be the case, at elast not this offseason.

Matt Clement at 9mil is what the market will bear for a pitcher of his caliber. You simply cannot find someone in that general range for significantly less $$$. (And I don't consider Odalis Perez at $8mil that different than Clement @$9mil).

Palehose13
12-17-2004, 02:18 PM
Folks... i've been on the clement bandwagon since the lee trade. another SP is what makes or breaks that trade. But... there is so much about this that screams "TODD RITCHIE" to me...

lets face it, this guy is a number 3 starter, and he's probably going to get #1 SP money... his best career finish was 12-11 in 2002, there are question marks about his shoulder, and given that he's 30, in general most ballplayers don't improve too much past their 30th b-day (yes there are some exceptions, before someone jumps on my back, im talking about significant IMPROVEMENT)

i dunno... as his price tag rises, Odalis Perez keeps looking better and better:

he'll probably come cheaper
he's younger (not peaked yet)
he's LEFT HANDED
no health concerns...
I have no problem with Odalis Perez. I am on teh Clement/Perez bangwagon and would be happy with either guy.

voodoochile
12-17-2004, 02:20 PM
I have no problem with Odalis Perez. I am on teh Clement/Perez bangwagon and would be happy with either guy.
Take Clement today and don't worry about the rest.

The Sox not signing Clement is not a guarantee of signing Perez - in fact as has been pointed out, it drives up the price for Perez and thus makes it LESS likely the Sox will sign him.

Take the guaranteed starter now and run for Spring Training.

soltrain21
12-17-2004, 02:21 PM
Take the guaranteed starter now and run for Spring Training.


I still hope we sign a cheap SS/2B in case the going gets rough for Wee Willie.

Brian26
12-17-2004, 02:22 PM
Any news yet?

I was excited earlier when I heard a press conference was scheduled for US Cellular Field-

But then they said it was for Jenny Finch and the new Chicago Bandits women's professional softball team.

Not that Finch is bad, but can she be our 5th starter?

Palehose13
12-17-2004, 02:23 PM
Take Clement today and don't worry about the rest.

The Sox not signing Clement is not a guarantee of signing Perez - in fact as has been pointed out, it drives up the price for Perez and thus makes it LESS likely the Sox will sign him.

Take the guaranteed starter now and run for Spring Training.
I agree, 100%. However, if Kenny does his "X-Y" thing and announces the signing of Perez BEFORE Clement makes up his mind (thus being completely under the radar) I wouldn't be upset.

Ol' No. 2
12-17-2004, 02:23 PM
Any news yet?

I was excited earlier when I heard a press conference was scheduled for US Cellular Field-

But then they said it was for Jenny Finch and the new Chicago Bandits women's professional softball team.

Not that Finch is bad, but can she be our 5th starter?Could she be worse than what we've had for the last two years?

Palehose13
12-17-2004, 02:24 PM
Any news yet?

I was excited earlier when I heard a press conference was scheduled for US Cellular Field-

But then they said it was for Jenny Finch and the new Chicago Bandits women's professional softball team.

Not that Finch is bad, but can she be our 5th starter?
:?: PH13 needs to get in shape and tryout!

On second though....I'm probably too old. :whiner:

Flight #24
12-17-2004, 02:24 PM
Could she be worse than what we've had for the last two years?
Even if she gives up 11runs ala Arnie Munoz, I don't think anyone would say she was "cover your eyes" bad.....

Palehose13
12-17-2004, 02:26 PM
Ok, I can't stand this anymore. I have to go run errands and confirm that I have a dog sitter since I am coming to Chicago tomorrow.I look forward to reading the 12 new pages that will be here when I get back. :D:

DaveIsHere
12-17-2004, 02:34 PM
well doesnt look like I have missed anything, I think I have time to go put up my xmas lights that the wind ripped down this week:angry:

MarkyBear
12-17-2004, 02:34 PM
Baby steps, MB... Baby Steps. Let the team get 5 solid starters before hoping for a 6th...

Besides, they still have Hermanson, Cotts, Grilli and everyone else at AAA and below to throw at that 5th slot too, though hopefully it doesn't come to that.


Yeah, I suppose with the reality of things and sense of things, this would be the better way to go then just flat all out...

HebrewHammer
12-17-2004, 02:36 PM
Arnie"Right Where We Want 'em" Munoz, Jason Grilli, Felix Diaz, Jon Rauch, The Big Show, Josh Stewart, the list goes on, it's time to start demanding better, Matt Clement at any price is better than having chumps like these on the roster.

MRKARNO
12-17-2004, 02:38 PM
Folks... i've been on the clement bandwagon since the lee trade. another SP is what makes or breaks that trade. But... there is so much about this that screams "TODD RITCHIE" to me...

lets face it, this guy is a number 3 starter, and he's probably going to get #1 SP money... his best career finish was 12-11 in 2002, there are question marks about his shoulder, and given that he's 30, in general most ballplayers don't improve too much past their 30th b-day (yes there are some exceptions, before someone jumps on my back, im talking about significant IMPROVEMENT)

Clement is no Todd Ritchie. Trust me (and everyone else) on this one.
Ritchie wasnt the strikeout pitcher that Clement is (5.5 K/9 vs practically 9.5 K/9). Ritchies BAA was about .260 in the three years before coming to the Sox unlike CLement's BAA of close to .225. Ritchie's ERA was also a lot higher in a much worse ballpark.

Paulwny
12-17-2004, 02:45 PM
If I had to choose, I'd choose Perez, too, mainly because I'm concerned about Clement's shoulder. But he's not going to come cheaper. After Clement signs, Perez' price will go up. It wouldn't surprise me if, when the smoke clears, he winds up getting MORE money than Clement.
Perez's price may not increase. I just finished reading an article in the Boston Herald about Clement and all the offers. It ended by saying the Red Sox have LITTLE INTEREST in Perez because of " percieved character issues". No explanation was given on these issues. More teams may feel the same, anyone know of these "character issues" ?

Ol' No. 2
12-17-2004, 02:50 PM
Perez's price may not increase. I just finished reading an article in the Boston Herald about Clement and all the offers. It ended by saying the Red Sox have LITTLE INTEREST in Perez because of " percieved character issues". No explanation was given on these issues. More teams may feel the same, anyone know of these "character issues" ?Maybe my memory is playing tricks on me but wasn't there some clubhouse issues mentioned last year when Perez' name came up?

kittle42
12-17-2004, 02:51 PM
No Clement but the Sox did get a picther........Bobby Jenks off waivers from the Angels! Wow!

Soxzilla
12-17-2004, 02:52 PM
No Clement but the Sox did get a picther........Bobby Jenks off waivers from the Angels! Wow!
Under the Radar.:redface:

santo=dorf
12-17-2004, 02:54 PM
No Clement but the Sox did get a picther........Bobby Jenks off waivers from the Angels! Wow!
He can throw 100 MPH, but that's about it.

CHISOXFAN13
12-17-2004, 02:55 PM
He can throw 100 MPH, but that's about it.
And some serious arm issues, but we need bodies to fill out the 40-man so why not. Not like he's going to be up with the big club anyway.

Jabroni
12-17-2004, 02:59 PM
The latest ESPN 1000 Scoreboard Update said that Clement is looking for $8.5 million a year for 3 years. $25.5 million dollars.

santo=dorf
12-17-2004, 02:59 PM
White Sox designated RHP Eduardo Villacis for assignment.

This was the guy that the Royals called up last season, and he got lit up in his debut at Yankee Stadium.

chisox06
12-17-2004, 03:02 PM
Clement to Sox on the Hot List on ESPNews, tune in. Talkin about their offer I guess, and that Clement may be "switching teams but not cities"

soltrain21
12-17-2004, 03:06 PM
Clement to Sox on the Hot List on ESPNews, tune in. Talkin about their offer I guess, and that Clement may be "switching teams but not cities"

ESPN is talking about....US?!

santo=dorf
12-17-2004, 03:08 PM
ESPN is talking about....US?!It's ESPNEWS.

They are forced to report everything, plus not everyone receives ESPNEWS.

Jabroni
12-17-2004, 03:08 PM
Clement to Sox on the Hot List on ESPNews, tune in. Talkin about their offer I guess, and that Clement may be "switching teams but not cities"ESPN as in the cable channel? :o:

chisox06
12-17-2004, 03:11 PM
ESPN as in the cable channel? :o: Yes sir, havent seen the report yet. But the fact that their talking about the White Sox offer as their headline, I think thats a good sign.

Jabroni
12-17-2004, 03:11 PM
Yes sir, havent seen the report yet. But the fact that there talking about the White Sox offer as their headline, I think thats a good sign.As long as it's not Gammons talking about Clement to the White Sox cuz then it's not happening.

santo=dorf
12-17-2004, 03:13 PM
Yes sir, havent seen the report yet. But the fact that their talking about the White Sox offer as their headline, I think thats a good sign.
Well it doesn't llok like they will be talking baseball until :boston comes on to talk about the RJ trade. They are going to talk about college football next. :mad:

chisox06
12-17-2004, 03:14 PM
:boston I hate this man.

kittle42
12-17-2004, 03:16 PM
The latest ESPN 1000 Scoreboard Update said that Clement is looking for $8.5 million a year for 3 years. $25.5 million dollars.If that's the case, "we gone," most likely.

But wait! The signing was already submitted to the league office!

Jabroni
12-17-2004, 03:19 PM
If that's the case, "we gone," most likely.

But wait! The signing was already submitted to the league office!That guy should get banned for his predictions, errr... I mean "inside info". :tongue:

DaveIsHere
12-17-2004, 03:22 PM
damn what channel is ESPN news on Comcast??

Kogs35
12-17-2004, 03:22 PM
I hate this man.

http://re2.mm-b.yimg.com/image/760316277 (http://rds.yahoo.com/S=96062857/K=comic+book+guy/v=2/SID=e/l=II/R=5/SS=i/OID=409ee93f679087a0/SIG=1hgegns2t/*-http%3A//images.search.yahoo.com/search/images/view?back=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.search.yahoo.com%2Fsear ch%2Fimages%3Ffr%3Dslv1-fp%26p%3Dcomic%2Bbook%2Bguy&h=302&w=160&imgcurl=www.synergizedsolutions.com%2Fsimpsons%2Fp ictures%2Fothers%2Fcomicbookguy1.gif&imgurl=www.synergizedsolutions.com%2Fsimpsons%2Fpi ctures%2Fothers%2Fcomicbookguy1.gif&size=10.6kB&name=comicbookguy1.gif&rcurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.synergizedsolutions.com%2Fs impsons%2Fpictures2.shtml&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.synergizedsolutions.com%2Fsi mpsons%2Fpictures2.shtml&p=comic+book+guy&type=gif&no=5&tt=663)
"peter gammons WORST. INSIDER. EVER!"

MRKARNO
12-17-2004, 03:27 PM
damn what channel is ESPN news on Comcast??
402 in Chicago if you have Premium or whatever package it's on.

Jabroni
12-17-2004, 03:27 PM
damn what channel is ESPN news on Comcast??I think ESPN is channel 33 and ESPN2 is channel 34.

Flight #24
12-17-2004, 03:29 PM
I think ESPN is channel 33 and ESPN2 is channel 34.
Downtown it's 29 & 30. I'd assume that's consistent throughout the area, but I could be wrong.

DaveIsHere
12-17-2004, 03:29 PM
well I guess i will check back, I wish I had my wireless setup so I can keep an eye on this while doing some woodworking in the garage, hopefully something happens soon, oh and what happened to ChiSoxTony, he hasnt checked back


I know channels 33 & #4 for those too, but I thought there was a strictly ESPN NEWS channel

Jabroni
12-17-2004, 03:31 PM
well I guess i will check back, I wish I had my wireless setup so I can keep an eye on this while doing some woodworking in the garage, hopefully something happens soon, oh and what happened to ChiSoxTony, he hasnt checked back


I know channels 33 & #4 for those too, but I thought there was a strictly ESPN NEWS channelChiSoxTony should be banned if Clement doesn't sign with the White Sox. :)

MushMouth
12-17-2004, 03:32 PM
402 in Chicago if you have Premium or whatever package it's on.


yep, 402 for me.

santo=dorf
12-17-2004, 03:33 PM
Peter Gammons will be on ESPNEWS. He is going to talk about the RJ trade and then the topic of "White Sox make offer to Clement."

Right now they are talking to a guy from ESPN radio 710 in LA about the RJ trade.

Ol' No. 2
12-17-2004, 03:37 PM
Is Clement a Type A or Type B FA? I can't imagine him being in the top 30%.

1917
12-17-2004, 03:37 PM
ESPNnews is a big tease, they will show a segment coming up beofre the commerical and say "When we return" then they don't show it for 15 minutes

Jabroni
12-17-2004, 03:38 PM
As long as it's not Gammons talking about Clement to the White Sox cuz then it's not happening.Peter Gammons will be on ESPNEWS. He is going to talk about the RJ trade and then the topic of "White Sox make offer to Clement.":tongue:

Jabroni
12-17-2004, 03:38 PM
Is Clement a Type A or Type B FA? I can't imagine him being in the top 30%.Type B, I believe.

Jabroni
12-17-2004, 03:41 PM
:tomatoaward:tomatoaward

Damn, we've been getting alot of these lately.

santo=dorf
12-17-2004, 03:41 PM
Gammons won't be on until 3:10.

Kogs35
12-17-2004, 03:41 PM
the worst insider ever will be on at 3:10 on espnews

Jabroni
12-17-2004, 03:44 PM
the worst insider ever will be on at 3:10 on espnews:boston
"The White Sox have offered Matt Clement a contract..."

:boston
"BUT NO, MATT CLEMENT WILL SIGN WITH THE RED SOX INSTEAD!!! MWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!"

Jabroni
12-17-2004, 03:56 PM
Can someone who is going to watch ESPN at 3:10 give of a report of what Boston Gammons says about the White Sox and Clement?

Thanks!

lths06
12-17-2004, 03:56 PM
Can someone who is going to watch ESPN at 3:10 give of a report of what Boston Gammons says about the White Sox and Clement?

Thanks!
will do.

Jabroni
12-17-2004, 03:57 PM
will do.Sweet, thanks! :thumbsup:

lths06
12-17-2004, 03:59 PM
wait, espn or epsn news?

Thats 100:supernana:

Kogs35
12-17-2004, 03:59 PM
wait, espn or epsn news?

Thats 100:supernana:
espnews

Jabroni
12-17-2004, 03:59 PM
wait, espn or epsn news?

Thats 100:supernana:Someone said it was going to be on ESPNews.

Kogs35
12-17-2004, 04:00 PM
Someone said it was going to be on ESPNews.
its espnews

Gammons Peter
12-17-2004, 04:05 PM
I just had recent discussions with my source at the players union, and again he confirmed that a contract between the WS and Clement has been submitted for approval. I will keep u advised of any further developments.

So, how long does it take for approval....................

Jurr
12-17-2004, 04:06 PM
Yeah...they're holding it off as long as possible. They talk about Delgado, Beltran, the Dolphins, and no Sox yet.

Jurr
12-17-2004, 04:07 PM
And, apparently the Miami-OH going to Indiana and Bertuzzi's attack are more important.

Rocklive99
12-17-2004, 04:08 PM
I just got home from the gym, and one of the ESPNEWS Hotlist items was 'White Sox make offer to Clement' but Michael Kim didn't even mention it :(

MushMouth
12-17-2004, 04:11 PM
And, apparently the Miami-OH going to Indiana and Bertuzzi's attack are more important.

As an IU grad, I was extrodinarily happy to see Hoeppner moving to IU from MofOhio!

:cool:

Jurr
12-17-2004, 04:12 PM
Now we gotta listen to Steven A. Smith...bah..

Rocklive99
12-17-2004, 04:12 PM
gah!

santo=dorf
12-17-2004, 04:12 PM
I just got home from the gym, and one of the ESPNEWS Hotlist items was 'White Sox make offer to Clement' but Michael Kim didn't even mention it :(
Those are just the updates. They'll probably talk to the king of all bull****ters (Gammons) after the RJ trade.

Now they interrupt it to talk about the Vince Carter trade.

NOONE GIVES A **** ABOUT THE NBA OR THE RAPTORS!!! :angry:

longshot7
12-17-2004, 04:17 PM
NOONE GIVES A **** ABOUT THE NBA OR THE RAPTORS!!! :angry:
Says you.

And it's "No One" - not "Noone" They're two separate words.

Ol' No. 2
12-17-2004, 04:18 PM
Says you.

And it's "No One" - not "Noone" They're two separate words.Oh. I was wondering who this "Noone" guy was.:D:

ilsox7
12-17-2004, 04:18 PM
As an IU grad, I was extrodinarily happy to see Hoeppner moving to IU from MofOhio!

:cool:Wow, so we have an AD who hires a good coach and promises to lighten up the BBall schedule somewhat. Now can he keep the department from losing money?

I'll keep twiddling my thumbs waiting for Clement news somewhere.

kittle42
12-17-2004, 04:19 PM
Oh. I was wondering who this "Noone" guy was.:D:
Peter Noone of Herman's Hermits.

santo=dorf
12-17-2004, 04:21 PM
Says you.

And it's "No One" - not "Noone" They're two separate words.My last name is Noone. :?:

I want my Baseball! :boston is on right now.

kittle42
12-17-2004, 04:22 PM
Bah. I'm done with this. They're not even mentioning it on the sports update on ESPN 1000 and MJH aren't discussing it, either.

We have created news where there is little.

rdivaldi
12-17-2004, 04:25 PM
As an IU grad, I was extrodinarily happy to see Hoeppner moving to IU from MofOhio!

:cool:
I'm right there with you. Even though I love my Hoosiers, this is a step down for Hoeppner. Hopefully he'll find another Rothisberger and we'll win more than 5 freakin' games for once.

:hijacked:

soxfan43
12-17-2004, 04:26 PM
with all the trade talk going on I'm betting he takes the weekend to decide. Hopefully his wife has him by the balls and makes him stay in chicago.

MushMouth
12-17-2004, 04:28 PM
I'm right there with you. Even though I love my Hoosiers, this is a step down for Hoeppner. Hopefully he'll find another Rothisberger and we'll win more than 5 freakin' games for once.

:hijacked:


continuing the hijacking- you should read the press conference quotes. He's an Indiana guy and absolutely hit it out of the park. Of course, words mean nothing. Wins do...

we'll see.

Jurr
12-17-2004, 04:28 PM
Not a damn word was said.

lths06
12-17-2004, 04:28 PM
He said absolutley nothing about the sox or clement:angry:

southsideirish71
12-17-2004, 04:29 PM
He said absolutley nothing about the sox or clement:angry:
Thats because the whitesox are out of the running. They can make offers until they are blue in the face, unless its the highest on the charts it wont win.

The only sox that gammons talks about is the bosox.

Jjav829
12-17-2004, 04:29 PM
Not a damn word was said.Shocking! They always do that. It always happens like that. A story on the Sox is teased, and then they conveniently run out of time.

Jabroni
12-17-2004, 04:31 PM
He said absolutley nothing about the sox or clement:angry:So what the hell did Gammons even talk about??? :?:

MeanFish
12-17-2004, 04:32 PM
Thats because the whitesox are out of the running. They can make offers until they are blue in the face, unless its the highest on the charts it wont win.

The only sox that gammons talks about is the bosox.
Well on the bright side, he's not going to the bosox if that's the case...

It might just be too early to tell.

MRKARNO
12-17-2004, 04:33 PM
Thats because the whitesox are out of the running.
Who is your source on this one? Do you even have a source?

MRKARNO
12-17-2004, 04:34 PM
So what the hell did Gammons even talk about??? :?:
Randy Johnson deal and seemingly a lot about Seattle. Delgado too.

WhiteSoxAaron
12-17-2004, 04:34 PM
Hey does anyone think this move will hapen and hi everyone this is my first time:D:

DumpJerry
12-17-2004, 04:35 PM
:welcome:

MRKARNO
12-17-2004, 04:40 PM
Hey does anyone think this move will hapen and hi everyone this is my first time:D: A majority of us (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=42950) think he's coming here.

WhiteSoxAaron
12-17-2004, 04:41 PM
thanx jerry i hope the sox actually get a pitcher.:b&b

kittle42
12-17-2004, 04:41 PM
Who is your source on this one? Do you even have a source?
I thought it was pretty obvious that it was his opinion, not something he heard anywhere.

soxfan43
12-17-2004, 04:41 PM
A majority of us (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=42950) think he's coming here.
which means nothing, since nobody here has any idea what is going on despite what they may post.

WhiteSoxAaron
12-17-2004, 04:42 PM
we can hope I would like to see him here than fricken grilli

Ol' No. 2
12-17-2004, 04:43 PM
I thought it was pretty obvious that it was his opinion, not something he heard anywhere.Opinions are like....umm...noses. Everybody's got one.

WhiteSoxAaron
12-17-2004, 04:43 PM
we signed timo to a 1 year 1 million dollar deal

MeanFish
12-17-2004, 04:43 PM
Neat.

WhiteSoxAaron
12-17-2004, 04:44 PM
who else could the sox sign except clement or odalis perez.

Ol' No. 2
12-17-2004, 04:45 PM
we signed timo to a 1 year 1 million dollar dealKenny did it again. Wrong Perez.