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View Full Version : Tim Hudson traded to Braves!


Jabroni
12-16-2004, 04:16 PM
"Braves get Hudson from A's
Trade Thomas, Meyer, Cruz for right-hander"
http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/news/mlb_news.jsp?ymd=20041216&content_id=923342&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp
Schuerholz completed a second deal Thursday afternoon that brings the right-handed Hudson to the Braves in exchange for outfielder Charles Thomas, southpaw Dan Meyer and right-hander Juan Cruz.

soltrain21
12-16-2004, 04:18 PM
I know Juan Cruz was in the deal..but he is the only name I know.

Tekijawa
12-16-2004, 04:20 PM
Nice Coup for the Bravos... Wonder what the deal was?

Win1ForMe
12-16-2004, 04:21 PM
Braves also send Charles Thomas and another prospect. Good trade for the Braves. I have to wonder why we couldn't possibly beat that offer?

Only thing I heard was that Beane wasn't interested in sending Hudson to another AL contender... Not sure how much stock I put into that.

Tekijawa
12-16-2004, 04:22 PM
Braves also send Charles Thomas and another prospect. Good trade for the Braves. I have to wonder why we couldn't possibly beat that offer?

Only thing I heard was that Beane wasn't interested in sending Hudson to another AL contender... Not sure how much stock I put into that.
Now we send Konerko and Garland for Jones and Hudson right?

soltrain21
12-16-2004, 04:25 PM
Beane could of got so much more.


But then again, he can do no wrong.

jabrch
12-16-2004, 04:27 PM
Charles Thomas, Dan Meyer and Juan Cruz

I find it hard to imagine KW couldn't top that package.

MRKARNO
12-16-2004, 04:28 PM
I think the A's could have gotten bigger names, but I think the players they got will be Billy Beane-type finds. The two pitchers both have high K/9 rates, the prospect might be a pretty good one and Charles Thomas has been pretty good at getting on base. He traded for 3 Billy Beane players. The interesting thing is that this was a trade between two GMs that are both known for getting the best of their deals more often than not. It'll be interesting to see who got the best of this one. I dont think Billy Beane did as badly as many here have said considering that he was looking to dump salary. Maybe now he can extend Mulder.

Flight #24
12-16-2004, 04:29 PM
Beane could of got so much more.


But then again, he can do no wrong.
Does that indicate something about what you can get in return for guys making reasonable $$$???

I like Juan Cruz, but Charles Thomas & Dan Meyer are nice but not that exciting.

Jabroni
12-16-2004, 04:29 PM
We better sign Clement or Perez now. :angry:

GAsoxfan
12-16-2004, 04:37 PM
Thomas did a nice job for the Braves in LF last year. There was talk down here about making Cruz the closer if Smoltz became a starter before the Braves traded for Kolb. I'm not familiar with Meyer, but the Braves seem to have an endless supply of good, young pitchers, so I'm guessing he's a quality prospect.

At first glance, I think Atlanta got the better end of the deal, but the A's didn't get swindled by any means, especially considering their salary constraints.

Mohoney
12-16-2004, 04:47 PM
Charles Thomas, Dan Meyer and Juan Cruz

I find it hard to imagine KW couldn't top that package.
So do I. Charles Thomas is already showing promise, and Juan Cruz is a guy that's definitely worth a gamble.

This is one of those trades that might help both ends, and both teams are really gambling here.

After losing Wright and Ortiz, Atlanta needed to do something. They stepped up to the plate and got Tim Hudson. The gamble here is that Charles Thomas might become a star, and Hudson might not sign an extension.

Oakland got a nice return for a guy that's in a walk year. Oakland's big gamble here is on Joe Blanton being ready for the majors. Having traded away both Redman and Hudson, Oakland needs Blanton to have a good season if they're going to win the AL West.

FightingBillini
12-16-2004, 04:47 PM
Look on the bright side. Now we know we will have a chance to sign Hudson in the offseason. There is no way Atlanta resigns him.

MRKARNO
12-16-2004, 04:50 PM
Look on the bright side. Now we know we will have a chance to sign Hudson in the offseason. There is no way Atlanta resigns him.
1. There is a way that Atlanta resigns him

2. If he's on the market, we dont have a prayer of signing him unless we draw 3 million next year.

mdep524
12-16-2004, 04:54 PM
At first glance, I think Atlanta got the better end of the deal, but the A's didn't get swindled by any means, especially considering their salary constraints.
But they could have done much better, especially considering the number of teams that were bidding for Hudson. If KW was pursuing this, which he most certainly should have been, and was beaten by that Atlanta package, I have to ask why??

jabrch
12-16-2004, 04:54 PM
What's Oakland's rotation now?

Mulder
Zito
Harden
Blanton
Cruz

Color me unimpressed.

Thomas is at best a 4th OF, right? (Kotsay, Swisher, Byrnes)

I'm confused.

Jabroni
12-16-2004, 04:57 PM
What's Oakland's rotation now?

Mulder
Zito
Harden
Blanton
Cruz

Color me unimpressed.

Thomas is at best a 4th OF, right? (Kotsay, Swisher, Byrnes)

I'm confused.Yep, this is great news. Maybe the Sox will start beating the A's in Oakland from now on.

Mohoney
12-16-2004, 04:57 PM
The interesting thing is that this was a trade between two GMs that are both known for getting the best of their deals more often than not. It'll be interesting to see who got the best of this one.
Most certainly. This is the kind of trade that can make-or-break a HOF GM's career.

Schuerholtz and Beane are both, in my opinion, guys that will merit HOF consideration. If this trade goes down as being one-sided (Hudson leaves the Braves after one season and Charles Thomas catapults into stardom; the Braves lock Hudson up long-term and he becomes the next Maddux/Glavine and Thomas and Cruz never break out), then it can leave an indellible mark on the GM that got the better side of this deal.

bobj4400
12-16-2004, 04:59 PM
Most certainly. This is the kind of trade that can make-or-break a HOF GM's career.

Schuerholtz and Beane are both, in my opinion, guys that will merit HOF consideration.
I think the last 15 years have made Schuerholtz a no-brainer for the HOF. This trade will not effect him either way...

Mohoney
12-16-2004, 05:05 PM
I think the last 15 years have made Schuerholtz a no-brainer for the HOF. This trade will not effect him either way...
You would think that, but tell that to Tommy John.

The 5th winningest lefty in baseball history can't get votes.

I think a great deal of voters will look at the fact that he only won 1 World Series and hold that against him, and it's a shame.

GAsoxfan
12-16-2004, 05:26 PM
But they could have done much better, especially considering the number of teams that were bidding for Hudson. If KW was pursuing this, which he most certainly should have been, and was beaten by that Atlanta package, I have to ask why??
But could they have done as well w/o taking back more salary? That was a big part of the equation.

Hudson + Mazzone = Cy Young Award for Hudson.

Also, someone said earlier they don't think the Braves will lock him up, I disagree. The Braves have always been built around pitching (except for 03), and they just got one of the best pitchers in the game, who also happens to be young. They wouldn't give up those players for a one year rental. I believe JS will do everything in his power to re-sign Hudson. The only way Hudson hits the open market is if he doesn't want to stay in Atlanta.

Jabroni
12-16-2004, 05:30 PM
The only way Hudson hits the open market is if he doesn't want to stay in Atlanta.This is why I don't think KW went after Hudson. KW probably didn't think he could re-sign him.

Jjav829
12-16-2004, 05:34 PM
This is why I don't think KW went after Hudson. KW probably didn't think he could re-sign him.
You cursed us with your damn sig! :tongue:

We coulda had Hudson if it wasn't for Jabroni.

Seriously though, I thought Hudson would fetch more than THAT.

All praise Billy Beane :worship: <----teal

Jabroni
12-16-2004, 05:38 PM
You cursed us with your damn sig! :tongue:

We coulda had Hudson if it wasn't for Jabroni.

Seriously though, I thought Hudson would fetch more than THAT.

All praise Billy Beane :worship: <----tealHehe. Oh well.

I can imagine Hudson getting as much money as Pedro Martinez after this season if that makes you feel any better.

California Sox
12-16-2004, 06:08 PM
I read today that Boston was offering Hanley Ramirez for Hudson! Beane really didn't want to see him in the AL, I guess. I've always like Juan "Cy" Cruz and maybe he'll blossom. Charles Thomas does not impress me in the least. Drew Meyer is a decent prospect but overall I think the A's could have done much, much, much better. How do you do this deal without Marcus Giles? Oh well, Atlanta is set again. Smoltz, Hudson, and Hampton will be a decent rotation, and while they've lost a lot of offense, I wouldn't be surprised if Marte comes up and makes an impact by midseason.

MRKARNO
12-16-2004, 06:23 PM
I read today that Boston was offering Hanley Ramirez for Hudson!
The A's had no need for him as they already have Bobby Crosby at Shortstop for the foreseeable future.

California Sox
12-16-2004, 07:00 PM
The A's had no need for him as they already have Bobby Crosby at Shortstop for the foreseeable future.
But Hanley Ramirez might be better than Keith Ginter at 2b.

I do believe I underestimated Dan Meyer, however. :redface:

He looks like a polished college lefty with a lot of upside. Now I'm beginning to understand what BB is up to. I expect Meyer to be their fourth starter with Blanton and Cruz battling for number 5. The loser of that battle heads to the pen to be a power set up guy. This could work out for the A's. Still not a huge Charles Thomas fan, though.

Lip Man 1
12-16-2004, 07:09 PM
And everyone wonders why and how the Braves keep getting to the playoffs. Spending money AND brains are tough to beat.

John Schuerholtz is one of the few 'creative' G.M. who can spin straw into gold.

Amazing...a 20 game winner for three basically minor leaguers.

Lip

Jabroni
12-16-2004, 07:10 PM
And everyone wonders why and how the Braves keep getting to the playoffs. Spending money AND brains are tough to beat.

John Schuerholtz is one of the few 'creative' G.M. who can spin straw into gold.

Amazing...a 20 game winner for three basically minor leaguers.

LipAgreed. The Braves ripped the A's off. Hudson is also from Georgia and that may help the Braves re-sign him.

maurice
12-16-2004, 07:11 PM
Proving once again that the A's are cheap, timid, and stupid. :cool:

SouthSide_HitMen
12-16-2004, 11:46 PM
Beane could of got so much more.


But then again, he can do no wrong.
I guess Kenny Williams didn't want Hudson, since he offered even less.

SouthSide_HitMen
12-16-2004, 11:49 PM
1. There is a way that Atlanta resigns him

2. If he's on the market, we dont have a prayer of signing him unless we draw 3 million next year.
Why, Kenny Williams offered Colon $36 mil / 3 years, will he top that?

Jabroni
12-16-2004, 11:50 PM
Why, Kenny Williams offered Colon $36 mil / 3 years, will he top that?Yes, I think so. I think he will get a Pedro Martinez-type deal next year ($14 million a year).

SouthSide_HitMen
12-16-2004, 11:57 PM
Agreed. The Braves ripped the A's off. Hudson is also from Georgia and that may help the Braves re-sign him.
Beane can only afford 2 of the big 3. Hudson said he was going after the season. I really like Cruz and Thomas is supposed to be a good player.

Funny if Kenny Williams makes the same type of trade, say like dumping Lee for Alex Sanchez deluxe FOKW claim this was a great move.

SouthSide_HitMen
12-16-2004, 11:59 PM
Yes, I think so. I think he will get a Pedro Martinez-type deal next year ($14 million a year).
You are probably right as only Konerko comes off the books (if not resigned) next year. Thomas, Contreras and Buehrle are off the books in 2006.

FarWestChicago
12-17-2004, 12:03 AM
Beane can only afford 2 of the big 3. Hudson said he was going after the season. I really like Cruz and Thomas is supposed to be a good player.What a shock. A FOBB praising Hudson for Crap as a great trade. http://www.flyingsock.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/eek.gif

:fobbgod:

My disciples are VERY consistent in their worship!

:KW

Damn, if I traded Garland, much less Hudson, for Crap those FOBB's would be all over my ass!

Jabroni
12-17-2004, 12:04 AM
Beane can only afford 2 of the big 3. Hudson said he was going after the season. I really like Cruz and Thomas is supposed to be a good player.

Funny if Kenny Williams makes the same type of trade, say like dumping Lee for Alex Sanchez deluxe FOKW claim this was a great move.Juan Cruz had a good season because of the Braves pitching coach, Leo Mazzone. We shall see what kind of success he has with the A's. I predict he reverts back to his Cubs' numbers. And Charles Thomas? He may never be better than a fourth outfielder. The prospect is supposed to be pretty good though. But Hudson can have a Cy year for the Braves with Mazzone as his pitching coach.

By the way, if we sign a starting pitcher the trade was a great move....

Podsednik, Vizcaino, PTBNL, and a starting pitcher > Carlos Lee

I don't think you can argue against that.

SouthSide_HitMen
12-17-2004, 12:13 AM
What a shock. A FOBB praising Hudson for Crap as a great trade. http://www.flyingsock.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/eek.gif


Saying Beane is better than Williams is not the same as Beane can do no wrong. I'd take Cruz and Thomas over Podsednik and Vizcaino.

Beane has the advantage of having pitchers who can fill in for traded players (Joe Blanton). Williams, of course just fills in holes and creates new ones.

When the White Sox win over 90 games (or at least 87) under Kenny Williams then we can discuss something. I'd trade Williams for Beane, but then again I'd trade Williams for Stone - Steve or Sharon.

soltrain21
12-17-2004, 12:16 AM
I'd take Cruz and Thomas over Podsednik and Vizcaino.



You make it sound like we traded the EXACT same player.

Jabroni
12-17-2004, 12:18 AM
Saying Beane is better than Williams is not the same as Beane can do no wrong. I'd take Cruz and Thomas over Podsednik and Vizcaino.

Beane has the advantage of having pitchers who can fill in for traded players (Joe Blanton). Williams, of course just fills in holes and creates new ones.

When the White Sox win over 90 games (or at least 87) under Kenny Williams then we can discuss something. I'd trade Williams for Beane, but then again I'd trade Williams for Stone - Steve or Sharon.
[/color]You would rather have Cruz and Thomas over Podsednik and Vizcaino? :?: Geez, I'm glad you're not in KW's shoes because we still wouldn't have a leadoff hitter who can steal bases. :rolleyes: By the way, Tim Hudson's trade value is WAY HIGHER than Carlos Lee's if you didn't know that already.

So winning 90 games is the mark of being a good GM? I guess if your team wins only 86 games you deserve to be fired. :rolleyes:

FarWestChicago
12-17-2004, 12:18 AM
Saying Beane is better than Williams is not the same as Beane can do no wrong.Yet that's what you FOBB's always claim. One thing I like about the honest A's fans around here, rather than the crossdressers on this board, is they don't worship Beane.

:fobbgod:

I hate locals!! How dare they treat me like a human being?!?

SouthSide_HitMen
12-17-2004, 12:25 AM
You make it sound like we traded the EXACT same player.
Both were / are very good players - You'd want Lee if you needed a power / good batting average hitter and Hudson if you wanted a starter.

Salary wise, it costs more to get a pitcher since there are less quantity of good ones.

Statistically, Lee had 8.4 Win Shares in 2004, Hudson 6.1. Part of this was due to the several starts Hudson missed.

Believe me, I am happy he is off the A's as this may help the Sox win a game or two more (a couple of less starts against Hudson who has owned us). And if by the grace of God we make the playoffs, I rather face Joe Blanton than Tim Hudson.

Both trades (Lee & Hudson) were made based on financial decisions. Both GMs tried to get as much as they could for their high priced stars. If the Sox get a starter as well as the good reliever (I'm not sold on Podsednik as a starter - he is better than Timo but that isn't saying much) than the trade will be worth it. If the cash stays in JRs pocket, than it blows.

FarWestChicago
12-17-2004, 12:28 AM
Both trades (Lee & Hudson) were made based on financial decisions. Both GMs tried to get as much as they could for their high priced stars. If the Sox get a starter as well as the good reliever (I'm not sold on Podsednik as a starter - he is better than Timo but that isn't saying much) than the trade will be worth it. If the cash stays in JRs pocket, than it blows.That's logical. But the fact is Beane has no out. He got burned because he wanted Hudson out of the AL. It cut down on his options. He "almost" admitted it on the radio here tonight. It was a nice dance he did. http://www.flyingsock.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

SouthSide_HitMen
12-17-2004, 12:28 AM
Yet that's what you FOBB's always claim. One thing I like about the honest A's fans around here, rather than the crossdressers on this board, is they don't worship Beane.

:fobbgod:

I hate locals!! How dare they treat me like a human being?!?
I guess I am just jealous that the A's win 90 - 100 games year in and year out in a tougher division with the same payroll while the Sox tread water a few games over .500 year in and year out and cannot even beat a team slated for contraction. What could the difference be? Oakland ownership is as cheap as ours. I guess that just leaves stupid.

Jabroni
12-17-2004, 12:28 AM
Both were / are very good players - You'd want Lee if you needed a power / good batting average hitter and Hudson if you wanted a starter.

Salary wise, it costs more to get a pitcher since there are less quantity of good ones.

Statistically, Lee had 8.4 Win Shares in 2004, Hudson 6.1. Part of this was due to the several starts Hudson missed.

Believe me, I am happy he is off the A's as this may help the Sox win a game or two more (a couple of less starts against Hudson who has owned us). And if by the grace of God we make the playoffs, I rather face Joe Blanton than Tim Hudson.

Both trades (Lee & Hudson) were made based on financial decisions. Both GMs tried to get as much as they could for their high priced stars. If the Sox get a starter as well as the good reliever (I'm not sold on Podsednik as a starter - he is better than Timo but that isn't saying much) than the trade will be worth it. If the cash stays in JRs pocket, than it blows.I can't believe you are trying to argue that Carlos Lee has equal trade value as Tim Hudson. :tongue: An ace pitcher is worth way more than a power-hitting LF'er dude. Power-hitting outfielders are a dime-a-dozen; ace pitchers are worth their weight in gold.

soltrain21
12-17-2004, 12:29 AM
If the cash stays in JRs pocket, than it blows.


I agree with that to the extreme. As excited as I am about watching Pods on the basepaths, this deal won't be in our favour until we use that extra money.

Lee put together a great year, but I don't think Lee is comparable to Hudson in terms of the position they play and where they rank in said position. Hudson is flat out unreal most of the time.

FarWestChicago
12-17-2004, 12:30 AM
I guess I am just jealous that the A's win 90 - 100 games year in and year out in a tougher division with the same payroll while the Sox tread water a few games over .500 year in and year out and cannot even beat a team slated for contraction. What could the difference be? Oakland ownership is as cheap as ours. I guess that just leaves stupid.You're just pissed because your A's hat doesn't look as nice as a Sox hat. http://www.flyingsock.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Jabroni
12-17-2004, 12:34 AM
I guess I am just jealous that the A's win 90 - 100 games year in and year out in a tougher division with the same payroll while the Sox tread water a few games over .500 year in and year out and cannot even beat a team slated for contraction. What could the difference be? Oakland ownership is as cheap as ours. I guess that just leaves stupid.His teams still don't win in the post-season.

SouthSide_HitMen
12-17-2004, 12:39 AM
You're just pissed because your A's hat doesn't look as nice as a Sox hat. http://www.flyingsock.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/biggrin.gif
I'm not the Sox fan sitting in Silicon Valley - I think you may be receive some razzing for some of the foolish things OUR favorite team has done over the years. (most of which are JR's fault)

I thought Beane did a good job before moneyball came out, but then again I know enough about baseball to have known about Beane before the hype.

And to that other post regarding Hudson > Lee - I stated that Salary wise (and therefore trade wise) Hudson was more valuable than Lee. If we were in a sandlot, I'd pick Hudson over Lee (unless I already had a few good starters and not many hitters). My point was that Lee did have a better year than Hudson last year.

Hudson, if healthy, should pitch great in Atlanta. He has the best pitching coach period, is in the NL, has a good defense (Andrew Jones in CF - though Chipper is moving back to LF - though that improves 3B - Marte) and should have a great contract lined up for 2006 and beyond.

I think Lee will also have a great year in Milwaukee. It is a shame we couldn't keep him and get a starter.

Jabroni
12-17-2004, 12:43 AM
And to that other post regarding Hudson > Lee - I stated that Salary wise (and therefore trade wise) Hudson was more valuable than Lee. If we were in a sandlot, I'd pick Hudson over Lee (unless I already had a few good starters and not many hitters). My point was that Lee did have a better year than Hudson last year.If a player's value was only based on his previous season's performance, Kris Benson wouldn't have gotten a 3-year, $22.5 million contract.

SouthSide_HitMen
12-17-2004, 12:45 AM
His teams still don't win in the post-season.
You can't win them if you don't earn a birth. I've liked the A's (and Royals) from the AL West days. If the Sox couldn't win the division, I hoped one of the other two would win the World Series against the evil Yankees / other Eastern teams and I almost always root for the American League vs. the National League (except when the Yankees, Red Sox are in or any team that knocked out the Cubs are still in). I like underdogs - I guess that is why the Sox will always be my favorite baseball team. The A's are similar in many ways.

SouthSide_HitMen
12-17-2004, 12:45 AM
If a player's value was only based on his previous season's performance, Kris Benson wouldn't have gotten a 3-year, $22.5 million contract.
He wouldn't have gotten Anna Benson either. :D:

JRIG
12-17-2004, 05:56 AM
This seems about an even deal, considering the A's probably couldn't sign Hudson anyway.
People are underestimating Meyer IMO. He's an outstanding pitching prospect.

Hey, Hudson is better right now than any player in this trade. It's a good pick up by the Braves. But I don't think Beane got raped by any means. I thik this is better than the Dodgers deal that was floated last week.

Blanton and Harden and Zito and Mulder is still very formidable. I would imagine Duchscherer (spelling is way off) would be the #5, and if anyone struggles, Meyer should be ready to go too.

FarWestChicago
12-17-2004, 09:17 AM
I'm not the Sox fan sitting in Silicon Valley - I think you may be receive some razzing for some of the foolish things OUR favorite team has done over the years. (most of which are JR's fault)Oh, I'll make sure I move back to Chicago to impress you. http://www.flyingsock.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

No, I don't receive any razzing from A's fans about what our team does. The A's fan who works for me is a horrible trash talker, but he directs most of his very bad trash talking at the Giant's fans. http://www.flyingsock.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Jabroni
12-17-2004, 09:21 AM
Braves | Hudson Overwhelmed By Trade - from www.KFFL.com
Fri, 17 Dec 2004 02:23:32 -0800

The San Francisco Chronicle's Susan Slusser reports new Atlanta Braves SP Tim Hudson was overcome with emotion at being dealt away from the Oakland Athletics. "This sucks,'' Hudson said. "It just sucks. Obviously, the worst part is not being with those guys anymore. Right now, I'm sort of overwhelmed. I don't know what to think, I'm just trying to get my bearings.'':whiner: