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View Full Version : Are the Sox really still acting like small market team?


Banix12
12-15-2004, 08:37 PM
I know certainly they tend to act like a small market team like an Oakland, not willing to overpay for players and going mostly with young talent, but after hearing this offseason that they are going to be paying something around the $70 million dollar mark on payroll this year, I was thinking "Small Market teams, even those perceived to be small market like the sox have been don't spend $70 million on payroll."

Then I checked. At $65 million dollars last year the White Sox had the 5th Highest Payroll in the American league with only the Mariners, Angels, Red Sox and Yankees spending more. Of course that's still only good for 15th in the majors, but we're still spent more than half the league and we are increasing that total this year.

I know we're in Chicago and that it is not a small market but factoring in the poor marketing of the Sox, a stadium considered by outsiders to be lousy, that 800-pound gorilla of a marketing machine on the Northside, and a history of lousy attendance. $70 million on a white sox payroll is pretty sweet so everybody should just quit complaining about how the Sox don't spend enough. We spend more than every team in our division, it's our results that stink.

ondafarm
12-15-2004, 08:39 PM
Checked where? Didn't the Texas Strangers spend more than the Sox? And what about the Orioles? Both teams had a few fairly large contracts to shell out for.

ukigdog
12-15-2004, 08:39 PM
Contrary to your beleif, next season Detroit will have a higher payroll than the White sox or so that is what experts say. Also, i agree though that we are not spending like a small market team. Small market is the twins, brewers, royals, etc,etc... that spend 50 million or less. We definitley arent in that category.

I also agree that its our results that are pitiful to this point. this is why i commend the trade that KW did because we needed to break up our power bopping philosophy and try something new, something that seems to work with the likes of marlins, twins, etc.

ondafarm
12-15-2004, 08:40 PM
Not to mention the Tigers. I don't think IRod came cheap.

munchman33
12-15-2004, 08:41 PM
Its easy to explain.

The Sox spend like a mid-market team.

The team draws like a small market team.

The fans expect them to spend like a big market team, and suggest they're spending like a small market team when they don't.

ukigdog
12-15-2004, 08:43 PM
I actually just did a project on this in a statistics class. The white sox are about middle of pack. in the 2005 season the teams that will have a higher payroll than the white sox are:

Seattle, St. Louis, San Francisco, Atlanta, Los Angeles, Cubs, Phillies, Mets, Yankees, Red Sox, Angels, and Houston if they sign Beltran.

misty60481
12-15-2004, 08:50 PM
We seem to spend in the mid-market for players and go cheap on scouting, even KW was probably the least expensive GM, and Ozzie surely doesnt make anything like we would have had to pay for a big name manager--like buying a new Cadilac without a radio or AC----

duke of dorwood
12-15-2004, 09:16 PM
Just look at the roster.

Answer please.

voodoochile
12-15-2004, 09:36 PM
Its easy to explain.

The Sox spend like a mid-market team.

The team draws like a small market team.

The fans expect them to spend like a big market team, and suggest they're spending like a small market team when they don't.
Yeah, but we want them to spend like a big market team which they don't but they are...

What? :rolleyes:

SouthSide_HitMen
12-15-2004, 09:43 PM
Its easy to explain.

The Sox spend like a mid-market team.

The team draws like a small market team.

The fans expect them to spend like a big market team, and suggest they're spending like a small market team when they don't.
http://www.ballparksofbaseball.com/2000-03attendance.htm

The White Sox (in the bottom 1/3) have outdrawn these eight teams this decade:

Detroit by 17,000 total
Kansas City
Minnesota
Toronto
Tampa Bay

Montreal
Pittsburgh
Florida

We have been outdrawn by pathetic Milwaukee, Cincinnati and hapless Colorado.

However, that is not the whole picture as broadcast revenue, concessions, etc. need to be factored and this is where the Sox are in the upper half of the league due to 7 million potential customers within range.

http://www.roadsidephotos.com/baseball/MLBRevProf.xls

The Sox in 2003 (2004 Forbes figures will be out next spring) earned $124 million in gross revenues placing them tied for 16th with the Rockies. For the record, they took in $7 million more than Detroit, $25 million more than Minnesota, $26 million more than Kansas City and $3 million LESS than Cleveland.

Eight teams in baseball took in more than $7 million in revenue above and beyond the White Sox (Yankees $238, Boston $190, Seattle $169, Mets $158, Braves & Cubs $156, Dodgers $154 & Giants $153).

Only Seattle ($17 million) earned more NET PROFIT than Chicago's $12.8 million.

Part of the reason for the team not being able to draw fans have been the 20 years of the Wirtz (as in Bill Wirtz) PR disasters, from the threat to move to cancelling 1994 to the White Flag trade and on and on. I think the team needs to elect a new managing partner just to remove all the badwill JR generates among a solid core of White Sox supporters.

munchman33
12-15-2004, 09:44 PM
Yeah, but we want them to spend like a big market team which they don't but they are...

What? :rolleyes:

No, No, turn the back side front-wise...

munchman33
12-15-2004, 09:45 PM
I think the team needs to elect a new managing partner just to remove all the badwill JR generates among a solid core of White Sox supporters.Keep on dreamin'

Your statement should really be in deep pink.

SouthSide_HitMen
12-15-2004, 09:49 PM
Keep on dreamin'

Your statement should really be in deep pink.I really don't think Jerry will outlast the decade managing the White Sox. It is not like the Wirtz family were generation after generation are groomed to run the Hawks and the liquor / real estate empire in a manner which would make old Mr. Potter nod his head in disgust.

Whether the new managing partner will be any better is another question (meet the new boss, same as the old boss?).

c4birdiemaker
12-15-2004, 09:49 PM
I know certainly they tend to act like a small market team like an Oakland, not willing to overpay for players and going mostly with young talent, but after hearing this offseason that they are going to be paying something around the $70 million dollar mark on payroll this year, I was thinking "Small Market teams, even those perceived to be small market like the sox have been don't spend $70 million on payroll."

Then I checked. At $65 million dollars last year the White Sox had the 5th Highest Payroll in the American league with only the Mariners, Angels, Red Sox and Yankees spending more. Of course that's still only good for 15th in the majors, but we're still spent more than half the league and we are increasing that total this year.

I know we're in Chicago and that it is not a small market but factoring in the poor marketing of the Sox, a stadium considered by outsiders to be lousy, that 800-pound gorilla of a marketing machine on the Northside, and a history of lousy attendance. $70 million on a white sox payroll is pretty sweet so everybody should just quit complaining about how the Sox don't spend enough. We spend more than every team in our division, it's our results that stink.good research pards....imagine what we could get done @80mil. pokey,clement,posada.now u got my attention:) :sopranos

munchman33
12-15-2004, 09:51 PM
I really don't think Jerry will outlast the decade managing the White Sox.
Do you know how long people have been saying this?

SouthSide_HitMen
12-15-2004, 09:54 PM
Do you know how long people have been saying this?
Tis the season - where hope abounds and Christmas cheer is in the air.

Santa will answer White Sox fan letters one of these years :smile: .

FedEx227
12-15-2004, 10:27 PM
Yeah we are mid-market, just because of that other thing over on the North-Side. Its a shame...

but I mean its pretty pathetic to look at the teams we out-drew, other than about 75% of them being in the Central, they are all teams in danger of moving or have already moved :(

the reason the Sox don't seem like a major-market team is because they aren't really in the middle of free-agent signings, most of our big contracts and high-payroll come from players already here that we signed on for longer, or trades made...

but yeah, like I said in a post we are the Biggest Small Market Team...so Mid-Market works for me :bandance: