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View Full Version : A.J. Pierzynski a free agent, future with ChiSox?


WhiteSoxFan84
12-15-2004, 12:52 AM
According to ESPN.com, the San Francisco Giants have waived catcher A.J. Pierzynski. He will be a non-tendered free agent after December 20th. The White Sox and Kenny Williams should be in hot pursuit of this guy. He's a dick and a jerk in the clubhouse, but I think him and Paul Konerko would get along great and PK would set him straight. We need this guy.

KW made it clear on the MJH show on ESPN1000 that if they can't land the starting pitcher they want with the money they saved in the Carlos Lee trade that the Sox would use that money to fill another hole they have. Catcher is an obvious hole.

Now I ask you, would you want A.J. and why or why not?

hosieryofthegods
12-15-2004, 12:59 AM
I think the guy is a jerk, but with that said, I think a .275 avg and 88 rbi's is pretty good. We need a bit more from our infield. Besides who's to say he won't be like that kid you hated in your neighborhood, until you hung out? He played hard for the twins.

WhiteSoxFan84
12-15-2004, 01:05 AM
It should also be noted that AJ caught for Johan Santana, Brad Radke, Joe "Cy" Mays, Carlos Silva, and J.C. Romero, he would have a great scouting report on all of them to help the rest of the Sox hitters. If Sox can land him, Twins will really be upset.

OurBitchinMinny
12-15-2004, 01:58 AM
He didnt catch silva. AJ was not all that well-liked on the giants and after he left the twins it turned out he wasnt that well-liked by them either. I cant see him joining the sox

WhiteSoxFan84
12-15-2004, 02:09 AM
He didnt catch silva. AJ was not all that well-liked on the giants and after he left the twins it turned out he wasnt that well-liked by them either. I cant see him joining the sox

I can...

Albert Belle, Wil Cordero, Jose Canseco, Carl Everett, A.J. Pierzynski?

4 years, $16 mill, watch.

fquaye149
12-15-2004, 07:52 AM
It should also be noted that AJ caught for Johan Santana, Brad Radke, Joe "Cy" Mays, Carlos Silva, and J.C. Romero, he would have a great scouting report on all of them to help the rest of the Sox hitters. If Sox can land him, Twins will really be upset.
i read an article about him being a jerk with the giants and they said he woudln't watch gametape - the only tape he watched was of the twins...

it sounds like he's pretty loyal to his old teammates...it's like the mighty ducks and adam banks when they played the hawks - "don't forget what team you're on"

don't think i want him...though his offensive numbers are pretty decent - much better than what we can expect from burke/davis

duke of dorwood
12-15-2004, 08:13 AM
He's A grinder

Frater Perdurabo
12-15-2004, 08:54 AM
Looking at his stats on ESPN.com, I think he would be a fantastic addition:

Here are his 2002-04 splits at the Cell:
.328 AVG, .375 OBP, .483 SLG and .858 OPS!!!

at the Metrodome: .301, .338, .440, .778

at Comerica: .300, .352, .460, .812
vs. Detroit overall: .361, .405, .528, .933

at Kauffman: .344, .375, .475, .850
vs. KC overall: .311, .336, .420, .756

at Jacobs: .271, .343, .407, .750
vs. Cleveland overall: .290, .358, .430, .788

Other than Cleveland (against whom he's honestly not bad at all), he feasts on the AL Central. The Sox need to take care of business against the Central; it's been their Achilles the last few years. Furthermore, any information he could provide on Twins pitchers would be priceless.

Not a ton of home run power, but plenty of hits and doubles (averaging over 30 doubles per year since 2001). Besides, the Sox still will not lack for home run power. Also, he only struck out 27 times last season.

As a left-handed hitter for average, A.J. could be exactly what the Sox need to balance the lineup (lefty-righty) toward the bottom of the order and turn catcher from a weakness into a position of strength on the Sox. He's almost an A.L. version of Jason Kendall who hits more doubles but doesn't have the bloated contract. He could collect RBIs by the bunches with this lineup:

Podsednik - L - CF
Rowand - R - LF
Frank/Carl - R/L - DH
Paulie - R - 1B
Dye - R - RF
A.J. - L - C (Splits at # 6 hitter: .315, .363, .481, .844)
Crede - R - 3B
Uribe - R - SS
Harris - L - 2B

:bandance: :supernana: :bandance:

Whitesoxtom
12-15-2004, 08:55 AM
I think WIlliams is pretty set on the Davis/Burke combo. AJ would be a nice addition though. It would definetly be an upgrade.

I thought I read Williams was going to save the money until midseason if he could not find the right starter to add. I may have read that wrong though.

WhiteSoxFan84
12-15-2004, 08:58 AM
I'll gurantee you guys one thing. If Tori Hunter TRIED to run A.J. over, and I put tried in caps because A.J. wouldn't let it happen, like he ran Jamie Burke over, A.J. would not only tag him out, he'd get up and give Tori a mouthful. A grinder and a true, blue Chicago attitude.

Am I the only one that wants this guy? Wow, I know just by looking at the poll that I'm the only one that wants him and thinks Hermanson will be a solid # 5. Of course I'd prefer a # 3 guy to be signed like Matt Clement, Odalis Perez, etc. But if the only SPs we have a chance at are Andy Ashby or someone like him, I'd rather pick up A.J. and settle for Hermanson as our # 5. If not, make a deal early in the season for another starter. I saw it somewhere else when we first acquired Hermanson, for all we know, Hermanson may pitch like Esteban Loaiza did in 2003. Speaking of which, where is he...

WhiteSoxFan84
12-15-2004, 09:02 AM
I thought I read Williams was going to save the money until midseason if he could not find the right starter to add. I may have read that wrong though.
He actually said on ESPN1000 yesterday that if they don't find the starting pitcher they want, they will use the money they have from the Carlos Lee trade elsewhere. They already had extra dought before the C-Lee trade that they intended to save up for mid-season pick ups.

Frater Perdurabo
12-15-2004, 09:05 AM
Seems to me that if he was such a clubhouse cancer, Twins pitchers would not have had much success and the Twins would not have won divison titles while he was their starting catcher. :rolleyes:

Flight #24
12-15-2004, 09:05 AM
He actually said on ESPN1000 yesterday that if they don't find the starting pitcher they want, they will use the money they have from the Carlos Lee trade elsewhere. They already had extra dought before the C-Lee trade that they intended to save up for mid-season pick ups.
Assume they have 2-3mil left in the budget, and 6mil from the trade. If KW goes out and gets Odalis Perez for 7-8mil, then hits up JR for an extra couple to give AJ 3-4mil, I'd be extremely happy. At that point, your "weak spots" are Crede & Harris. I have that in quotes because when arguably your worst hitter can still pop for 25HR, that's not bad.

Frater Perdurabo
12-15-2004, 09:08 AM
Also seems to me that he's the type of guy you hate to play but love to have on your side, kind of like Dennis Rodman or the aforementioned Bill Laimbeer.

Frater Perdurabo
12-15-2004, 09:10 AM
Assume they have 2-3mil left in the budget, and 6mil from the trade. If KW goes out and gets Odalis Perez for 7-8mil, then hits up JR for an extra couple to give AJ 3-4mil, I'd be extremely happy. At that point, your "weak spots" are Crede & Harris. I have that in quotes because when arguably your worst hitter can still pop for 25HR, that's not bad.

Also, I have a hunch that this will be a breakout year for Crede: .270-ish average with around 30 homers and 85+ RBI. Then Harris is the #9 hitter and a pretty good one at that. He and Podsednik could create havoc on the basepaths together and rattle pitchers who would then throw "mistake" fastballs to Rowand, Frank and Konerko. :bandance:

Frater Perdurabo
12-15-2004, 09:11 AM
I still think it's more important to sign another starter, but I think if they are sufficiently creative they can get both a starter like Clement or Perez AND Pierzynski.

fquaye149
12-15-2004, 09:47 AM
I'll gurantee you guys one thing. If Tori Hunter TRIED to run A.J. over, and I put tried in caps because A.J. wouldn't let it happen, like he ran Jamie Burke over, A.J. would not only tag him out, he'd get up and give Tori a mouthful. A grinder and a true, blue Chicago attitude.

Am I the only one that wants this guy? Wow, I know just by looking at the poll that I'm the only one that wants him and thinks Hermanson will be a solid # 5. Of course I'd prefer a # 3 guy to be signed like Matt Clement, Odalis Perez, etc. But if the only SPs we have a chance at are Andy Ashby or someone like him, I'd rather pick up A.J. and settle for Hermanson as our # 5. If not, make a deal early in the season for another starter. I saw it somewhere else when we first acquired Hermanson, for all we know, Hermanson may pitch like Esteban Loaiza did in 2003. Speaking of which, where is he...
um can we not blame burke for getting blindsided and coldcocked?

Mickster
12-15-2004, 09:54 AM
Then Harris is the #9 hitter and a pretty good one at that. He and Podsednik could create havoc on the basepaths together and rattle pitchers who would then throw "mistake" fastballs to Rowand, Frank and Konerko. :bandance:
Sor some reason, I can see Willie getting on base on the #9 hole and "clogging-up" the basepaths for Podsednik, preventing him from stealing bases.....:cool:

Frater Perdurabo
12-15-2004, 10:04 AM
Sor some reason, I can see Willie getting on base on the #9 hole and "clogging-up" the basepaths for Podsednik, preventing him from stealing bases.....:cool:

I think Ozzie and KW are on the same page about changing the kind of team they have. If Willie won't run, Ozzie will sit him at the end of the bench and replace him with someone who will.

mjharrison72
12-15-2004, 10:12 AM
I'll gurantee you guys one thing. If Tori Hunter TRIED to run A.J. over, and I put tried in caps because A.J. wouldn't let it happen, like he ran Jamie Burke over, A.J. would not only tag him out, he'd get up and give Tori a mouthful. A grinder and a true, blue Chicago attitude.

Am I the only one that wants this guy? Wow, I know just by looking at the poll that I'm the only one that wants him and thinks Hermanson will be a solid # 5. Of course I'd prefer a # 3 guy to be signed like Matt Clement, Odalis Perez, etc. But if the only SPs we have a chance at are Andy Ashby or someone like him, I'd rather pick up A.J. and settle for Hermanson as our # 5. If not, make a deal early in the season for another starter. I saw it somewhere else when we first acquired Hermanson, for all we know, Hermanson may pitch like Esteban Loaiza did in 2003. Speaking of which, where is he...You convinced me... how do I change my vote? I still think we need pitching first, but I think AJ wouldn't be the worst thing for the Sox.

Jjav829
12-15-2004, 10:13 AM
I'll gurantee you guys one thing. If Tori Hunter TRIED to run A.J. over, and I put tried in caps because A.J. wouldn't let it happen, like he ran Jamie Burke over, A.J. would not only tag him out, he'd get up and give Tori a mouthful. A grinder and a true, blue Chicago attitude.
Actually, he'd probably drop the ball or get out of the way of the plate just so his buddy Torii didn't get hurt trying to score.

I don't want him. Last thing we need is a guy sitting in the Sox clubhouse watching the Twins games and rooting for his buddies. That would kill any sort of team chemistry this team has.

WhiteSoxFan84
12-15-2004, 10:14 AM
um can we not blame burke for getting blindsided and coldcocked?
First of all, he should have been nowhere near the plate if the ball wasn't going to get there on time. Second, how bad is his pherial (I butched sp I know) vision that he didn't see a well built black man running towards him? Third, it's his fault for not getting up and getting in Hunter's face (ala Jason Varitek/Alex Rodriguez). That may have lit a fire under the rest of the team's asses and White Sox rally to win the division and win the World Series!

That's what seperates the men from the boys. Tek wouldn't have let ANY Yankee get away with that and A.J. wouldn't have either.

But it's all good, we're a bunch of 2nd place bitches anyway. God I hate that attitude.

Dolanski
12-15-2004, 10:17 AM
One, they are set on the Davis/Burke combo. Davis is one of those guys that KW has "had his eye on for awhile." He is this year's White Sox find (past ones include PK, Juan Uribe, Esteban Loiza, etc). Whether or not he pans out, we'll see.

Two, AJ was waived by the Giants. He wasn't exactly missed in Minn. Why would we want someone like that? You can make all the pipe dream suggestions that he will love it here, PK will turn him around, his offense will speak for itself, whatever. He's a known malcontent and why add a potential headache for alot of money?

Three, the Sox are building a defensive team. AJ can certainly hit, but his defense is questionable.

I would rank getting AJ up there with getting Derek Lowe. Just another way to ensure this season gets pissed down the drain.

Palehose13
12-15-2004, 10:19 AM
Actually, he'd probably drop the ball or get out of the way of the plate just so his buddy Torii didn't get hurt trying to score.

I don't want him. Last thing we need is a guy sitting in the Sox clubhouse watching the Twins games and rooting for his buddies. That would kill any sort of team chemistry this team has.BINGO!

Bobby Thigpen
12-15-2004, 10:28 AM
I don't want him under any circumstances, but I don't think it matters what I or we want. I don't think he would even consider coming here. Wasn't he one of the main people mouthing off to the Sox a couple of years ago as they collapsed?

Dolanski
12-15-2004, 10:28 AM
First of all, he should have been nowhere near the plate if the ball wasn't going to get there on time. Second, how bad is his pherial (I butched sp I know) vision that he didn't see a well built black man running towards him? Third, it's his fault for not getting up and getting in Hunter's face (ala Jason Varitek/Alex Rodriguez). That may have lit a fire under the rest of the team's asses and White Sox rally to win the division and win the World Series!

That's what seperates the men from the boys. Tek wouldn't have let ANY Yankee get away with that and A.J. wouldn't have either.

But it's all good, we're a bunch of 2nd place bitches anyway. God I hate that attitude.

Your comparison of Tek and Burke doesn't hold any water.

Tek is an allstar. Burke is a journeyman.
Tek is the BoSox capt and team leader. Burke was barely hanging onto the roster.
Tek calling out ARod was Alex being a whiner complaining about someone throwing at his head. Burke and Hunter was a play during a game. Hunter took him out, but it wasn't cheap. Unnecessary maybe, but not cheap. Burke was in the baseline. Also, when have you ever seen a plate collision end with someone getting in someone else's face? That doesn't happen. That's not the way the game is played.

And to assume AJ would do this or that, c'mon, pure speculation. Have you so deluded yourself into thinking that he is the answer for the Sox that you are making up a persona already for him? Stick to what you know...

The one thing I do agree with is that Burke getting run over was one of the watershed moments of the season that had them rolling over and dying the rest of the way. But putting the blame on Burke? If he a team leader like PK, then yes, you can throw him under the bus. But I can't blame a guy who played hard (he had to to keep his job) and fought for his playing time.

Besides, the season was lost long before that when we lost Maggs and Frank.

WhiteSoxFan84
12-15-2004, 10:34 AM
One, they are set on the Davis/Burke combo. Davis is one of those guys that KW has "had his eye on for awhile." He is this year's White Sox find (past ones include PK, Juan Uribe, Esteban Loiza, etc). Whether or not he pans out, we'll see.

Two, AJ was waived by the Giants. He wasn't exactly missed in Minn. Why would we want someone like that? You can make all the pipe dream suggestions that he will love it here, PK will turn him around, his offense will speak for itself, whatever. He's a known malcontent and why add a potential headache for alot of money?

Three, the Sox are building a defensive team. AJ can certainly hit, but his defense is questionable.

I would rank getting AJ up there with getting Derek Lowe. Just another way to ensure this season gets pissed down the drain. Well Dolanski, from the sound of things, I doubt a World Series and 10 Prozacs would cherry you up.

Allow me to show you Exhibit A; Carl Everett. He was a wreck in a Houston, a complete clubhouse mess. He goes to Boston, spits on an umpire, labeled a nut. He goes to Texas, things quiet down, still a lot of unrest over his clubhouse behavior. He comes to the Sox, he's all smiles and we haven't seen or heard anything bad about his clubhouse behavior have we?

Assumption often leads to misunderstanding. We've done it before (Belle, Dennis Rodman, Everett), we've not only been proven wrong once the players have came here, we've also noticed how successful we can be with them. Don't get me wrong, A.J. doesn't gurantee us a ring, but he improves the team nonetheless. I though that's what we're for, improving the team?

As far as him watching Twin games on TV rather than doing what he's supposed to. First of all, let's think logically here, IF this ever happened, it probably was a one time thing maybe for an inning or two. Second of all, you mean to tell me other players don't watch their old teams or any baseball on TV? Third, look at who his manager was in Frisco, Felipe "Sleepy" Alou, Jerry Manuel x 10.

Palehose13
12-15-2004, 10:34 AM
First of all, he should have been nowhere near the plate if the ball wasn't going to get there on time. Second, how bad is his pherial (I butched sp I know) vision that he didn't see a well built black man running towards him?
Ummmmmm...IIRC, wasn't Burke like 2-3 feet in front of the plate and Tori Spelling, I mean Hunter go out of his way to hit Burke?

WhiteSoxFan84
12-15-2004, 10:37 AM
Ummmmmm...IIRC, wasn't Burke like 2-3 feet in front of the plate and Tori Spelling, I mean Hunter go out of his way to hit Burke?
I despised Hunter for doing what he did. I was completely upset. I remember cheering when some fans behind home plate got at him to the point where he started mouthing back. But, if Konerko ran Mauer or Blanco over last year, I would have been cheering loud as HELL (as long as Mauer or Blanco didn't get injured). Double standards baby.

Palehose13
12-15-2004, 10:42 AM
I despised Hunter for doing what he did. I was completely upset. I remember cheering when some fans behind home plate got at him to the point where he started mouthing back. But, if Konerko ran Mauer or Blanco over last year, I would have been cheering loud as HELL (as long as Mauer or Blanco didn't get injured). Double standards baby.
Double standard? I didn't voice any sort of opinion there, I was just questioning some of your points in a previous post...like Burke being nowhere near the plate. I haven't watched a lot of baseball in my lifetime, but usually when a catcher doesn't have a play at the plate he stands a few feet in front of it (like I recall Burke doing on that play).

Oh...and don't call me baby.

Flight #24
12-15-2004, 10:45 AM
Well Dolanski, from the sound of things, I doubt a World Series and 10 Prozacs would cherry you up.

Allow me to show you Exhibit A; Carl Everett. He was a wreck in a Houston, a complete clubhouse mess. He goes to Boston, spits on an umpire, labeled a nut. He goes to Texas, things quiet down, still a lot of unrest over his clubhouse behavior. He comes to the Sox, he's all smiles and we haven't seen or heard anything bad about his clubhouse behavior have we?


Really? I never heard anything but good things from Showalter about Carl in the clubhouse. in fact, IIRC there are some quotes from Buck about how he asked Carl to mentor some of their younger players because of how he went about his business and played the game. The "bad apple" rep he's got stems primarily from his time in beantown (and with Jimy Williams).

WhiteSoxFan84
12-15-2004, 10:48 AM
Really? I never heard anything but good things from Showalter about Carl in the clubhouse. in fact, IIRC there are some quotes from Buck about how he asked Carl to mentor some of their younger players because of how he went about his business and played the game. The "bad apple" rep he's got stems primarily from his time in beantown (and with Jimy Williams).
I think there was. Maybe not A LOT, but enough to raise concern when the Sox acquired him the first time. I think somebody from the Dallas Morning Star was on some radio show telling the Sox how bad of a clubhouse figure Everett was. I love the guy. I doubt he's that good anymore, but the lone memory I have of him is 2 years ago when the Sox played the A's at home, I was at the game. Another classic Mark Mulder/Mark Buehrle game, sox won 3-2. Everett made a great play in center banging into the wall and I believe saving a home run.

Man I miss the ballpark already.

Dolanski
12-15-2004, 10:48 AM
Well Dolanski, from the sound of things, I doubt a World Series and 10 Prozacs would cherry you up.

Allow me to show you Exhibit A; Carl Everett. He was a wreck in a Houston, a complete clubhouse mess. He goes to Boston, spits on an umpire, labeled a nut. He goes to Texas, things quiet down, still a lot of unrest over his clubhouse behavior. He comes to the Sox, he's all smiles and we haven't seen or heard anything bad about his clubhouse behavior have we?

Assumption often leads to misunderstanding. We've done it before (Belle, Dennis Rodman, Everett), we've not only been proven wrong once the players have came here, we've also noticed how successful we can be with them. Don't get me wrong, A.J. doesn't gurantee us a ring, but he improves the team nonetheless. I though that's what we're for, improving the team?

As far as him watching Twin games on TV rather than doing what he's supposed to. First of all, let's think logically here, IF this ever happened, it probably was a one time thing maybe for an inning or two. Second of all, you mean to tell me other players don't watch their old teams or any baseball on TV? Third, look at who his manager was in Frisco, Felipe "Sleepy" Alou, Jerry Manuel x 10.
AJ is not the answer for this team. They don't necessarily need a new catcher. They need a new pitcher before they get a catcher. For that matter, he isn't going to be cheap. Would you rather they spend the money they saved in the Lee trade on him or starting pitching? Pitching of course.

As for his rep, fine, perhaps it is overstated or misunderstood. Why does Chicago have to be home to all the nutbags? Why spend a ton of money on a potential problem? Albert Belle didn't exactly leave a great legacy here. So what, you want the Bears to go grab Lawrence Phillips now? The Giants traded for AJ. They gave up a closer for AJ. And after one year, they are saying he isn't worth it? That doesn't exactly speak highly of him or leave a warm and fuzzy feeling in my stomach. I say let him be someone else's psychiatrist bill. Also, for the money he is going to demand, again, not going to happen. And I for one, am happy to not see him on the Southside.

Palehose13
12-15-2004, 10:50 AM
Numero uno, don't get to happy babe, that baby comment was directed towards you. :?:

Moving on, as I recall it, maybe your memory is better than mine, but didn't Burke have his left foot ON homeplate? Or at least he had it positioned near home plate so he can lean back on it and tag Hunter? I'm pretty sure we can both agree on that being true.
Last but not least, this is all that matters;

A.J. > Burke & Davis Combined.
Sorry, but I don't agree. Old age may be clouding my memory, but I don't think he was in a tagging position.

I don't care if A.J is better than Burke and Davis. He is an ass and I don't see him being a good clubhouse guy...especially with the White Sox. Hell, I would think the only way he would come here is to sabotage the team.

p.s. I'm gonna get kittle42 on you here, but know when to use "too" instread of "to".

D. TODD
12-15-2004, 10:56 AM
FT. Worth paper has reported Sox intrest in swinging a trade for Soriano. Also, SI.com has reported that the PTBNL if a high A ball pitcher, I beleive his name was Streeter or Stecker. Under the truth & rumor section of their hot stove report.

Frater Perdurabo
12-15-2004, 11:02 AM
FT. Worth paper has reported Sox intrest in swinging a trade for Soriano. Also, SI.com has reported that the PTBNL if a high A ball pitcher, I beleive his name was Streeter or Stecker. Under the truth & rumor section of their hot stove report.

Ugh. No thanks on Soriano. Right handed hitter, strikes out a lot, would preclude the Sox from getting a pitcher. Besides, who do the Sox have that the Rangers would want?

Bobby Thigpen
12-15-2004, 11:07 AM
Besides, who do the Sox have that the Rangers would want?
Jon Garland.

Frater Perdurabo
12-15-2004, 11:09 AM
Check out Soriano's 3-year splits at the Cell: .229 AVG, .270 OBP, .400 SLG, .670 OPS. No thanks.

D. TODD
12-15-2004, 11:10 AM
Very breif mention of the sox showing intrest in Soriano, it did not go into details about who was offered. They did pursue Del Gado though, but could not meet the asking price., so Konerko being in the mix is my guess.

Frater Perdurabo
12-15-2004, 11:10 AM
Jon Garland.

I found the article. It said they like Podsednik and were interested in Lee.

Hart said the Rangers never had serious trade discussions involving Alfonso Soriano. However, a trade Monday in which the Milwaukee Brewers sent outfielder Scott Podsednik and reliever Luis Vizcaino to the Chicago White Sox for outfielder Carlos Lee might create some intrigue.

A major league official said the Rangers had some interest in Podsednik and also discussed a Soriano-Lee deal with the White Sox before the winter meetings.

The White Sox have lost two power hitters this winter in Lee and Magglio Ordonez, leading to speculation they might still be interested in Soriano.

"We've had little conversation at all with the go-go White Sox," Hart said. "Whether that changes in the coming days remains to be seen.

"We're not pursuing anything with Sori, and we haven't had any real overtures. There's always tire-kicking on any player, but I wouldn't describe it as serious."

Frater Perdurabo
12-15-2004, 11:13 AM
Not to be a thread hijack, but if we're talking about Soriano and potential deals between the Sox and Rangers, or former Sox players, it's also interesting to note that Valenstache may soon be signed by the Rangers as a DH/utility IF. I always thought Jose could hit 40 HR if he played 81 games in Arlington. The short RF fence is perfect for him.

Baby Fisk
12-15-2004, 11:15 AM
Seriously tho, who are the people voting that Hermanson will be fine as our #5 starter? I'm eager to learn the reasoning behind such unacceptable defeatism. Hermanson is for the bullpen. CLee-Podsednik-Vizcaino was the first part of a two-part move that MUST result in the Sox getting a SP. If Kenny doesn't get us another starter, he's screwed up for the last time and must go! :angry:

D. TODD
12-15-2004, 11:16 AM
I only saw the mention of the article on a hot stove update, thanks for the details. The update also mentioned slight possabilty of intrest in Jerod Washburn who is now being shopped byAnaheim.

MeanFish
12-15-2004, 11:20 AM
Has KW *ever* said that Hermanson would be our #5 if we don't sign anyone? He seems pretty adamant about using Grilli or Scho to start the season if we don't sign a competent middle-of-the-rotation pitcher. Hermanson is strictly an insurance policy in the event of injury, afaik.

Baby Fisk
12-15-2004, 11:22 AM
Has KW *ever* said that Hermanson would be our #5 if we don't sign anyone? He seems pretty adamant about using Grilli or Scho to start the season if we don't sign a competent middle-of-the-rotation pitcher. Hermanson is strictly an insurance policy in the event of injury, afaik.
There's a thread somewhere that quotes a Kenny radio interview where he suggests that Hermanson might come into the #5 spot during the season.

D. TODD
12-15-2004, 11:26 AM
Does anyone have any knowledge about the potential of the A ball pitcher the Brewers are giving. Again the name escapes me at the moment, but I belive it was Streeter.

FarmerAndy
12-15-2004, 11:35 AM
Jamie Burk

6 Games in 2003 - .375 Avg .375 Slg .375 OBP

57 Games in 2004 - .333 Avg .408 Slg .375 OBP

72 Career Games - .331 avg .398 Slg .379 OBP


Now, I know that Burke isn't all that young, and he is a journeyman. I also know that these numbers are from a very small sample, only 72 career games.

BUT, the guy has obviously made the most of the 72 Major League games he has under his belt. If we need offense, don't you think these numbers at least warrant giving him a chance????

Randar68
12-15-2004, 11:37 AM
BUT, the guy has obviously made the most of the 72 Major League games he has under his belt. If we need offense, don't you think these numbers at least warrant giving him a chance????
And he's no better than a .250 in AAA. I wonder where his numbers will settle when the scouting report on him get's around? He's a great guy and teammate, but be realistic.

Dadawg_77
12-15-2004, 11:54 AM
Jamie Burk

6 Games in 2003 - .375 Avg .375 Slg .375 OBP

57 Games in 2004 - .333 Avg .408 Slg .375 OBP

72 Career Games - .331 avg .398 Slg .379 OBP


Now, I know that Burke isn't all that young, and he is a journeyman. I also know that these numbers are from a very small sample, only 72 career games.

BUT, the guy has obviously made the most of the 72 Major League games he has under his belt. If we need offense, don't you think these numbers at least warrant giving him a chance????
A .375 avg and .375 obp over very small sample isn't a good thing. Burke isn't good enough to be a major league regular and that would get exposed the more he plays. He can be effective in smal spurts against favorable pitching match ups.

mdep524
12-15-2004, 12:08 PM
I only saw the mention of the article on a hot stove update, thanks for the details. The update also mentioned slight possabilty of intrest in Jerod Washburn who is now being shopped byAnaheim.Hmmm, Jarrod Washburn is intriguing. He hasn't been great since that dominating 2002 season, but he could be a good number 4 or 5 if Garland gets traded. I think he's a flyball pitcher though.

BTW, don't let kittle42 read your post, he'll have a heart attack. :redneck

DaleJRFan
12-15-2004, 12:29 PM
Kinda funny that the guy who caught Neil Cotts in college at ISU was a "Pierzynski" Ed Pierzynski to be exact... who is now a Sox Academy pitching coach.

Sign him, we need all the Pierzynskis we can get!

DaleJRFan
12-15-2004, 12:33 PM
Kinda funny that the guy who caught Neil Cotts in college at ISU was a "Pierzynski" Ed Pierzynski to be exact... who is now a Sox Academy pitching coach.

Sign him, we need all the Pierzynskis we can get!Scratch that... Ed's name is spelled differently. "Pieczynski"

http://www.bullssoxacademy.com/baseball/instructors.htm#pieczynski

Ol' No. 2
12-15-2004, 12:34 PM
Jamie Burk

6 Games in 2003 - .375 Avg .375 Slg .375 OBP

57 Games in 2004 - .333 Avg .408 Slg .375 OBP

72 Career Games - .331 avg .398 Slg .379 OBP


Now, I know that Burke isn't all that young, and he is a journeyman. I also know that these numbers are from a very small sample, only 72 career games.

BUT, the guy has obviously made the most of the 72 Major League games he has under his belt. If we need offense, don't you think these numbers at least warrant giving him a chance????No. He can't possibly be any good. He'll never amount to anything more than a AAAA player. Neither will Aaron Rowand.

Randar68
12-15-2004, 12:36 PM
No. He can't possibly be any good. He'll never amount to anything more than a AAAA player. Neither will Aaron Rowand.Good LORD! He's 33 Years old. *****.

http://www.sports-wired.com/profiles/BU/tbc4182.asp

:smokin:

DaleJRFan
12-15-2004, 12:37 PM
Jamie Burk

6 Games in 2003 - .375 Avg .375 Slg .375 OBP

57 Games in 2004 - .333 Avg .408 Slg .375 OBP

72 Career Games - .331 avg .398 Slg .379 OBP


Now, I know that Burke isn't all that young, and he is a journeyman. I also know that these numbers are from a very small sample, only 72 career games.

BUT, the guy has obviously made the most of the 72 Major League games he has under his belt. If we need offense, don't you think these numbers at least warrant giving him a chance????
I have to agree with this. If it is an offensive catcher they seek, why not give Burke a fair shake and let him play everyday and see what happens.... But, can we afford to "See what happens" with any of our players?

He is a good hitter, and you never hear him being talked about during gamecasts, which is good... if they don't mention the catcher's Defense, then he's not making mistakes.

Ol' No. 2
12-15-2004, 12:38 PM
Good LORD! He's 33 Years old. *****.So is Magglio. The point is???

Randar68
12-15-2004, 12:40 PM
So is Magglio. The point is???You can't be serious.

Edit: Reply removed. Above argument too stupid and ridiculous to merit any type of response.

Ol' No. 2
12-15-2004, 12:47 PM
You can't be serious.

Edit: Reply removed. Above argument too stupid and ridiculous to merit any type of response.Let's hope you are as right about Burke as you were about Rowand a few years ago.

Look, I am tired of arguing this point. Rowand sucks. On top of that, every time one of our OF'ers struggles in the least, there are Chicken Little's everywhere calling for trades just to get Rowand PT. The fact that his abilities are unknown to MOST is the reason...

However, he does not have Major League abilities. He may be a starting OF'er on a Tampa or Colorado, but never on a contender. If I am wrong, I'll eat my shorts.

By no means is Aaron Rowand a better player than any of our current starters in the OF. The fact that he hasn't had much PT does not equate to "better find out". I remember all the people calling for Jeff Abbott for cryin' out loud!

One of the things I always thought of White Sox fans are they are one of the more informed and level-headed groups of fans. Lately around here, the FOC and FOB have made this place look like the Cubs board. I don't always look forward to coming here because the intelligence factor has been steadily dwindling over the past 3 months.

Yes, we disagree, but I've seriously had it with armchair managers and GM's around here thinking that an unproven or one-dimensional player is the next All-Star. Wake up folks. Augie Ojeda fans turn north.

DaleJRFan
12-15-2004, 12:59 PM
Let's hope you are as right about Burke as you were about Rowand a few years ago.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Randar68
12-15-2004, 01:00 PM
Let's hope you are as right about Burke as you were about Rowand a few years ago.I've been wrong before, it goes with the territory and am not afraid to admit it. But the least you can do is make a half-ass intelligent argument toward the point of a 33 year old minor league journeyman suddenly becoming a serviceable major leaguer as opposed to a 23 year-old at the time "figuring it out", meanwhile comparing a multiple All-Star at 30 years of age who has been in the league for 6 years to that same minor league journeyman...

If the crux of your argument was that I didn't believe in Aaron Rowand, you're building a strawman. Too absurd to comprehend.

Dolanski
12-15-2004, 01:06 PM
If I am wrong, I'll eat my shorts.

So, how did they taste?

D. TODD
12-15-2004, 01:08 PM
The Giants cut him loose even though he had adequate offensive numbers. These offensive skills must have been so heavily outweighrd by his terrible attitude, plus his far below avarage throwing arm that they couldn't wait to get him out of their clubhouse. We do not need to pay part of our 6 to 8 million left on this malcontent! :angry:

mcfish
12-15-2004, 01:10 PM
I think Ozzie and KW are on the same page about changing the kind of team they have. If Willie won't run, Ozzie will sit him at the end of the bench and replace him with someone who will.From what I recall about the end of last season, it's not that Willie won't run, it's that he can't run. He just didn't have a feel for how/when to do it. Hopefully he'll get better in the offseason or get help from Rock and/or Podsednik.

SoxxoS
12-15-2004, 01:12 PM
This rumor would have a lot more weight to it if he was from Venezuela.

Flight #24
12-15-2004, 01:15 PM
This rumor would have a lot more weight to it if he was from Venezuela.
Doesn't AJ stand for Alfonso Juan?

SoxxoS
12-15-2004, 01:18 PM
Doesn't AJ stand for Alfonso Juan?
ZING!!!!!!:cool:

Randar68
12-15-2004, 01:20 PM
From what I recall about the end of last season, it's not that Willie won't run, it's that he can't run. He just didn't have a feel for how/when to do it. Hopefully he'll get better in the offseason or get help from Rock and/or Podsednik.
Instinct are very hard to teach or learn. Confidence may be a part of it, but Willie just doesn't seem to be able to read the picher very well and time his jumps effectively. Many players with average speed can be good base-stealers, and many fast runners can be poor ones. Willie's faster than Beltran, but look at what he did last year on the basepaths...

SoxxoS
12-15-2004, 01:22 PM
Instinct are very hard to teach or learn. Confidence may be a part of it, but Willie just doesn't seem to be able to read the picher very well and time his jumps effectively. Many players with average speed can be good base-stealers, and many fast runners can be poor ones. Willie's faster than Beltran, but look at what he did last year on the basepaths... Where were you when I needed backup about a month ago saying you can't teach instincts...I was getting pounded by about 10 posters. I am going to find that thread...

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=41856&highlight=harris

mcfish
12-15-2004, 01:33 PM
Instinct are very hard to teach or learn. Confidence may be a part of it, but Willie just doesn't seem to be able to read the picher very well and time his jumps effectively. Many players with average speed can be good base-stealers, and many fast runners can be poor ones. Willie's faster than Beltran, but look at what he did last year on the basepaths...I see your point, but in that case, is there really a reason to have Willie on the team at all? He's good defensively, but not overwhelmingly so, he has very little power, and he can't do anything on the basepaths. He was hurt I think for some of the season (especially his awful June-July), so I can imagine that his batting numbers aren't completely indicitive of what he can do, but is there really a need for him?

Randar68
12-15-2004, 01:36 PM
I see your point, but in that case, is there really a reason to have Willie on the team at all? He's good defensively, but not overwhelmingly so, he has very little power, and he can't do anything on the basepaths. He was hurt I think for some of the season (especially his awful June-July), so I can imagine that his batting numbers aren't completely indicitive of what he can do, but is there really a need for him?
He's a better hitter than the numbers have shown this far and can play 2B and CF. Not a bad utility guy or pinch-runner or pinch hitter, but I am not convinced he's a good everyday player. JMO< he looked like one when he hit .400+ in AAA a couple years ago, but I need to see more hard contact and fewer weak ground-outs. He hit the ball with more authority in the minors than this, he just seems to be playing too defensive at the plate...

Randar68
12-15-2004, 01:37 PM
Where were you when I needed backup about a month ago saying you can't teach instincts...I was getting pounded by about 10 posters. I am going to find that thread...

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=41856&highlight=harris
I barely come onto the main page anymore, man. Too much fodder to sift through.

California Sox
12-15-2004, 01:47 PM
I barely come onto the main page anymore, man. Too much fodder to sift through.
Good to see you on the main page, Randar. Couple of questions: Do you think Podsednik profiles to be a decent player? I suspect he may be the second coming of John Cangelosi, i.e a helluva fourth outfielder. (one above average tool, speed.) Also, there's no way KW would seriously consider trading Sweeney in a package for RJ as they're discussing in another thread, would he? I mean, the strength of our system is outfielders but Reed's gone, Borchard's a bust, Lee and Ordonez are gone... It doesn't make any sense. Thanks.

Ol' No. 2
12-15-2004, 01:48 PM
I've been wrong before, it goes with the territory and am not afraid to admit it. But the least you can do is make a half-ass intelligent argument toward the point of a 33 year old minor league journeyman suddenly becoming a serviceable major leaguer as opposed to a 23 year-old at the time "figuring it out", meanwhile comparing a multiple All-Star at 30 years of age who has been in the league for 6 years to that same minor league journeyman...

If the crux of your argument was that I didn't believe in Aaron Rowand, you're building a strawman. Too absurd to comprehend.No, the crux of the argument is that the HOF has a number of "late bloomers", so why can't Burke be one? I'm not suggesting a HOF career, or even that he will be a career .333 hitter. But if he's decent defensively and hits .280+ he'll be better than half the catchers in MLB. I don't understand how you can just dismiss him as if it wasn't possble.

Ol' No. 2
12-15-2004, 01:53 PM
Instinct are very hard to teach or learn. Confidence may be a part of it, but Willie just doesn't seem to be able to read the picher very well and time his jumps effectively. Many players with average speed can be good base-stealers, and many fast runners can be poor ones. Willie's faster than Beltran, but look at what he did last year on the basepaths...There's more than instinct and speed. There's also skill, and that is definately possible to teach. Let's see what he can do under Raines' tutelage.

MisterB
12-15-2004, 02:15 PM
Instinct are very hard to teach or learn. Confidence may be a part of it, but Willie just doesn't seem to be able to read the picher very well and time his jumps effectively. Many players with average speed can be good base-stealers, and many fast runners can be poor ones. Willie's faster than Beltran, but look at what he did last year on the basepaths...
Interesting. If you can't teach instincts and you can't teach speed, how does anyone become a better basestealer? Or can't you? Has no player ever improved his SB abillity over his career? Is there little or no skill involved at all?

MisterB
12-15-2004, 02:29 PM
No, the crux of the argument is that the HOF has a number of "late bloomers", so why can't Burke be one? I'm not suggesting a HOF career, or even that he will be a career .333 hitter. But if he's decent defensively and hits .280+ he'll be better than half the catchers in MLB. I don't understand how you can just dismiss him as if it wasn't possble.Take a look at some HOF'ers. A 'late bloomer' usually means starting to be productive at age 25 or 26 instead of 22 or 23. The chances of a career minor leaguer improving to MLB-caliber past the age of 30 are almost nonexistant. He's done a good job as a 2nd/3rd string catcher, and expecting more from him at this point in his career is just foolish.

34 Inch Stick
12-15-2004, 02:33 PM
By definition an instinct cannot be taught or learned (you are so learned Pappa Homer! That's right Pepsi. It's Pepe.)

DaleJRFan
12-15-2004, 02:36 PM
Interesting. If you can't teach instincts and you can't teach speed, how does anyone become a better basestealer? Or can't you? Has no player ever improved his SB abillity over his career? Is there little or no skill involved at all?
He needs to learn when to take the extra step away from the bag, how to deke the pitcher... (as Timo did to Carlos Z this year), to to read the pitchers, what pitches to run on, how to scout the pitchers as to who has what moves, learn the signs and indications of the pitchers' moves... where in their motion do they move to the plate versus first, what counts to run on, and most importantly, the confidence to be an aggressive baserunner, and ultimately, a prolific base-stealer. He has the raw, god-given ability, he just needs to convert that to practical skill, which requires confidence, coaching, and, unfortunately, time.

I like a lot about Willie Harris' game, but he has been a big letdown thus far. The Sox let D'Angelo Jiminez go to make room for Willie. D'Angelo has proven to be a solid MLB secondbaseman... its time for Willie to shine.