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akingamongstmen
12-15-2004, 12:25 AM
If we sign a QUALITY starting pitcher, then what? Will everybody here be satisfied? I've been hearing a lot of posters say that if we land another starter, then they'll "be happy." Somehow, I doubt that's true.

pearso66
12-15-2004, 12:28 AM
I'm happy right now, but would be even more happy if we got a starter. Does that answer your question? Although I was ha ppy before Lee was traded, and am about the same, maybe happier since we now have the revenue to get another pitcher. Granted if we could have swung Lee to Oakland for Hudson that would have been best case scenario, but I didn't think that was realistic before this trade anyway

Foulke You
12-15-2004, 12:29 AM
If we sign a QUALITY starting pitcher, then what? Will everybody here be satisfied? I've been hearing a lot of posters say that if we land another starter, then they'll "be happy." Somehow, I doubt that's true.
The answer for me is yes, I would definitely be satisfied. The Carlos Lee deal would essentially fill 3 holes for the price of one player and Kenny Williams will have done his job as GM. If he does nothing more, and hangs on to the Carlos Lee savings and doesn't solve the rotation hole, then I can't help but wonder if he is simply doing the bidding of his boss by getting rid of pricey players.

soltrain21
12-15-2004, 12:31 AM
Odalis Perez and Cairo would make me extremely happy. Clement and Palanco are too "radar" for us, and I don't feel the Sox need a bidding war.


Sign Perez and Cairo and lets head into spring training!

hosieryofthegods
12-15-2004, 01:20 AM
Odalis Perez and Cairo would make me extremely happy. Clement and Palanco are too "radar" for us, and I don't feel the Sox need a bidding war.


Sign Perez and Cairo and lets head into spring training!
"Boston" is saying that tha sawks and the angels are both looking at Perez. So there's your bidding war. Both have hugemongous payrolls.

As for me, no I won't be happy. Just because we get what we're supposed to have, I don't feel we should be. The Sox should have 5 quality starters and a decent bullpen with a closer. They should have 8 competent position players, and for good measure 5 on the bench.

I shouldn't feel that I'm privileged to have a team that is destined for anything but first. Especially in this "small" market of Chicago.

Banix12
12-15-2004, 02:14 AM
I don't think it's going to satisfy anyone, because while we wait for games to be played there are just too many questions about what team is going to show up. Just about everybody on the team has potential to have a bad year as much as they have to have a great year.

We are counting on so many players this year to rebound from sub-par seasons (Thomas, Everett, Davis, Podsednik).

So many to repeat career years (Konerko, Rowand, Takatsu, Uribe, to a lesser extent Gload).

Still waiting for a few to still deliver on great potential (Crede, Harris, Contreras, Garland, Cotts).

We have so few players who we actually trust to perform. I think that's why the Lee trade hurt so much. Even though he can be streaky he was one of the few players on the team you felt you can trust to have a pretty good year even if he struggled a bit.

I think we're gonna have to wait for the season to get going and go well before most of us get happy. That said. I'm pretty optimistic. I've grown tired of the kind of ball the sox have been playing and since it hasn't been working it was time to change. Isn't the definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over again even though you keep getting the same result?

I don't know what kind of starter we can get for the money we have and I figure with 7 relievers on the roster we might be looking at a trade instead of a signing. Say maybe Vizcaino, Garland and a minor leaguer for some top of the line starter somewhere. Cairo would be a nice pickup too. He defends well and he still has some good speed.

munchman33
12-15-2004, 06:30 AM
If we sign Matt Clement, I'll go into next year feeling fairly confident we'll win the division, with a chance our pitching will advance us far into the playoffs.

If we go into the season without signing a fifth starter, we're doomed.

Flight #24
12-15-2004, 07:22 AM
We are counting on so many players this year to rebound from sub-par seasons (Thomas, Everett, Davis, Podsednik).

So many to repeat career years (Konerko, Rowand, Takatsu, Uribe, to a lesser extent Gload).

Still waiting for a few to still deliver on great potential (Crede, Harris, Contreras, Garland, Cotts).


A "glass half full" version of that would rephrase to say:

- We have a number of proven guys who had down years that they can realistically be expected to improve upon: Thomas, Everett, Dye

- We have a number of guys who are either still improving or just hitting their prime and can be expected to be as good or better: Konerko, Rowand, Uribe

- We have a few who have been decent, and are much more likely to improve than regress: Crede, Harris, Contreras, Garland, Cotts

Then add in that we have significantly better offensive balance, a vastly improved bullpen, and (hopefully) a vastly improved starting rotation.

Frater Perdurabo
12-15-2004, 08:09 AM
I won't be "happy" or "satisfied" until the Chicago White Sox win a World Series. I don't see how any true Sox fan could answer otherwise.

JRIG
12-15-2004, 08:14 AM
I won't be "happy" or "satisfied" until the Chicago White Sox win a World Series. I don't see how any true Sox fan could answer otherwise.
What do you mean? The White Sox have been "trying" to win since the 1920s. If that's good enough to keep KW supporters happy, despite the results, it's good enough for the organization.

siugrad25
12-15-2004, 08:27 AM
Not to sound greedy, but the Sox are still full of holes. Like I've mentioned in previous posts, they are still three moves from me being 'satisfied'. IMO in addition to the SP hole that they need to address, the Sox also need a middle infielder and catcher. Now what scares me is whether they have enough pop in their lineup, but I'll have no other choice to trust that KW and Guillen know what they're doing. My question is how they will stretch $6 million into the $13 million ($8 SP, $2 C, $3 IF) they might need (if not more) to fill those spots. Let's hope that Clement turns into reality soon b/c I'm not in love with this trade unless another couple players come aboard.

Frater Perdurabo
12-15-2004, 09:03 AM
I won't be "happy" or "satisfied" until the Chicago White Sox win a World Series. I don't see how any true Sox fan could answer otherwise.

Furthermore, I don't care how they do it. Slugging, pitching, small ball, spit balls, whatever. I don't care if they are a team full of nice-guy "gamers," money-grubbing malcontents or dope fiends. I don't care if Uncle Jerry or Mark Cuban is the owner. I don't care if Ozzie Guillen or Ron Santo or Joe Torre or Wally Backman is the manager. I just want to see the Sox win it all. I would trade the Bears' Super Bowl victory, the six Bulls titles and the Dallas Stars Stanley Cup for one White Sox World Series championship. I won't be happy or satisfied until that's accomplished. Staunch. :cool:

MRKARNO
12-15-2004, 09:07 AM
Signing Odalis or Clement would make the net effect of the trade a positive one for the team, so yes it'd make me happy.

GoSox2K3
12-15-2004, 10:53 PM
If we sign a QUALITY starting pitcher, then what? Will everybody here be satisfied? I've been hearing a lot of posters say that if we land another starter, then they'll "be happy." Somehow, I doubt that's true.
:threadsucks

Satisfied about what? This team hasn't won a pennant in 45 years and hasn't won a World Series in almost 90 years. I won't be satisfied until we erase this shameful streak. Seems like too many Reinsdorf apologists on this site are happy with the perpetual 80 win seasons the Sox are giving us.

SouthSideHitman
12-15-2004, 11:52 PM
More satisfied than before at least. In fact, I'll say mollfied. I hate to see the Sox acting like anything but a major market team and only plugging holes every December, without giving up anything, however living in reality as I do, I like the new approach. The rotation with another major starter would be very good and depending on how Garland and/or Contreras do, it could be incredible. The bullpen looks to be very solid, with a pleasing amount of depth at not too much cost. The offense still has two guys who can mash, with some youngsters who showed us a lot last year and some other cheaper replacement-level players with good to moderate upside. And the offense will be forced to play baseball in a way that doesn't live and die with the big innning. Is what I just described at wet-dream scenario for a Soxaphile? No. However it is a lot better and a lot different from what I've seen these last four second-place seasons? Yes. And at this point that's no too bad.

Chrisaway
12-16-2004, 01:24 AM
I'll be happy when the baseball season starts again. Aside from watching the Bears rip out my heart this winter, I have nothing to watch (I miss hockey). Anything the Sox do to improve their team meanwhile, will make me that much happier.

Baines2Raines
12-16-2004, 01:43 AM
If we sign Matt Clement, I'll go into next year feeling fairly confident we'll win the division, with a chance our pitching will advance us far into the playoffs.

If we go into the season without signing a fifth starter, we're doomed.
So if the White Sox go into the season without finding a fifth starter, forget about the season? Don't even bother?

With all the off days the first month of the season, there isn't really a need for a fifth starter until May or June. During that time anything can happen. A surprise (Grilli) A young pitcher developing. (Take your pick) Or a low budget team already out of the race and wanting to dump salary, they trade one of their starters. (Royals, DRays, Reds etc)

I don't see a need to panic in Dec/Jan if the White Sox don't go into the season without a fifth starter.

hosieryofthegods
12-16-2004, 03:23 AM
So if the White Sox go into the season without finding a fifth starter, forget about the season? Don't even bother?

With all the off days the first month of the season, there isn't really a need for a fifth starter until May or June. During that time anything can happen. A surprise (Grilli) A young pitcher developing. (Take your pick) Or a low budget team already out of the race and wanting to dump salary, they trade one of their starters. (Royals, DRays, Reds etc)

I don't see a need to panic in Dec/Jan if the White Sox don't go into the season without a fifth starter.
While every other team has the same basic schedule and is using their pitchers and bullpen less? Good plan. That will help when everybodies arm is ready to fall off in October. I'll take my chances with 5 starters thanks. Most teams don't get a pitcher in June or July unless they need to upgrade, not because they don't have a 5th. Also most successful teams don't hope for a rookie to develop when thrown into the fire.

MUsoxfan
12-16-2004, 03:26 AM
I'm fairly satisfied right now w/o a 5th starter. I'd like a 5th starter to solidify things, but I'm LOVING Scotty Po and Vizcaino on the south side. I LOVE IT

gosox41
12-16-2004, 08:49 AM
If we sign a QUALITY starting pitcher, then what? Will everybody here be satisfied? I've been hearing a lot of posters say that if we land another starter, then they'll "be happy." Somehow, I doubt that's true.
I'd be happier, but would be thrilled if the team can get a 2B/SS and move Uribe to the other position.


Bob

akingamongstmen
12-16-2004, 09:15 AM
:threadsucks

Satisfied about what? This team hasn't won a pennant in 45 years and hasn't won a World Series in almost 90 years. I won't be satisfied until we erase this shameful streak. Seems like too many Reinsdorf apologists on this site are happy with the perpetual 80 win seasons the Sox are giving us.Of course I know that the Sox haven't won anything in a long time. I was merely pointing to the fact that many posters like to say things like "if we could just sign Player A...." Then, they turn around after the signing to begin either complaining that the Sox overpaid, or that it wasn't enough. I guess there are different breeds of Sox fans. I tend to be more optimistic than most in that I believe that the organization actually wants to win. Obviously, I must be a Reinsdorf apologist because I don't think that he is operating a vast conspiracy to make White Sox fans miserable.

Lip Man 1
12-16-2004, 12:20 PM
Even the God awful New York Mets have five decent starters. Why can't the Sox?

Oh silly me...I forgot that costs money.

Lip

Mickster
12-16-2004, 12:23 PM
Even the God awful New York Mets have five decent starters. Why can't the Sox?

Oh silly me...I forgot that costs money.

Lip
:whiner: :whiner: :whiner:

fuzzy_patters
12-16-2004, 01:58 PM
Of course I know that the Sox haven't won anything in a long time. I was merely pointing to the fact that many posters like to say things like "if we could just sign Player A...." Then, they turn around after the signing to begin either complaining that the Sox overpaid, or that it wasn't enough. I guess there are different breeds of Sox fans. I tend to be more optimistic than most in that I believe that the organization actually wants to win. Obviously, I must be a Reinsdorf apologist because I don't think that he is operating a vast conspiracy to make White Sox fans miserable.
You must be young. I am only 26, and I felt the same way that you do a couple of years ago. However, over time the Sox have a way of killing your youthful enthusiasm. Don't worry. You'll be a an old pessimist like the rest of us someday.

Ol' No. 2
12-16-2004, 02:00 PM
Even the God awful New York Mets have five decent starters. Why can't the Sox?

Oh silly me...I forgot that costs money.

LipAre you including Matt Ginter?:cool:

Realist
12-16-2004, 02:28 PM
Furthermore, I don't care how they do it. Slugging, pitching, small ball, spit balls, whatever. I don't care if they are a team full of nice-guy "gamers," money-grubbing malcontents or dope fiends. I don't care if Uncle Jerry or Mark Cuban is the owner. I don't care if Ozzie Guillen or Ron Santo or Joe Torre or Wally Backman is the manager. I just want to see the Sox win it all. I would trade the Bears' Super Bowl victory, the six Bulls titles and the Dallas Stars Stanley Cup for one White Sox World Series championship. I won't be happy or satisfied until that's accomplished. Staunch. :cool:
POTW (in my book) :wink:

tstrike2000
12-16-2004, 02:34 PM
No one really knows what KW will do. I'll be happy if we win the division.

Baines2Raines
12-16-2004, 03:00 PM
While every other team has the same basic schedule and is using their pitchers and bullpen less? Good plan. That will help when everybodies arm is ready to fall off in October. I'll take my chances with 5 starters thanks. Most teams don't get a pitcher in June or July unless they need to upgrade, not because they don't have a 5th. Also most successful teams don't hope for a rookie to develop when thrown into the fire.
Maybe I should make it more clear. It's Dec 16th right now. About 40 day from spring training. If one of the White Sox young pitchers or Grilli or whoever is with the organization right now, has a good spring and earns the 5th spot is that a problem?

I'm just wondering why panic right NOW? We got a whole spring training to go through. I'm not saying the White Sox shouldn't go after any pitcher or make trades. But I would much rather wait and see what happens in spring than make a knee jerk reaction right now.

Ol' No. 2
12-16-2004, 03:06 PM
Maybe I should make it more clear. It's Dec 16th right now. About 40 day from spring training. If one of the White Sox young pitchers or Grilli or whoever is with the organization right now, has a good spring and earns the 5th spot is that a problem?

I'm just wondering why panic right NOW? We got a whole spring training to go through. I'm not saying the White Sox shouldn't go after any pitcher or make trades. But I would much rather wait and see what happens in spring than make a knee jerk reaction right now.How many trades for pitchers have you seen in April and May? It almost never happens. Teams don't trade good pitchers until they know they're out of it. So if your rotation sucks on April 1, it's not going to get better before mid-June, at the earliest. That's a lot of games to flush down the crapper.

longshot7
12-16-2004, 03:12 PM
What do you mean? The White Sox have been "trying" to win since the 1920s. If that's good enough to keep KW supporters happy, despite the results, it's good enough for the organization.
There is no try. Do or do not.

That said, I'd be happy if they got Lee back, or if this past week turned out to be a bad dream.

Baines2Raines
12-16-2004, 03:12 PM
How many trades for pitchers have you seen in April and May? It almost never happens. Teams don't trade good pitchers until they know they're out of it. So if your rotation sucks on April 1, it's not going to get better before mid-June, at the earliest. That's a lot of games to flush down the crapper.
Umm how many trades do you see the last week of spring training? A lot.

And nobody in this division is going to run away with it. The Twins aren't going to start the season 30-6 or something like that.

So what you're all saying is that if the White Sox sign Clement or O Perez that the rotation will be set right? MB, Garcia, Conty, Garland, and Clement/O Perez/whoever they sign. Give me a break.