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Wealz
12-14-2004, 12:29 PM
Why doesn't Williams trade Contreras? Then they might have enough money for Perez, Polanco, and Pierzynski.

FightingBillini
12-14-2004, 12:33 PM
Good idea, then we can trade Neil Cotts for Randy Johnson, put him in a time warp so he becomes 30 years old again, and then sign him to a 10 year contract for the league minimum.

Baby Fisk
12-14-2004, 12:35 PM
Why doesn't Williams trade Contreras? Then they might have enough money for Perez, Polanco, and Pierzynski.Whaaaaaaaaa? :?:

BRDSR
12-14-2004, 12:36 PM
Why doesn't Williams trade Contreras? Then they might have enough money for Perez, Polanco, and Pierzynski.
What would trading Contreras accomplish? Even if we signed Perez, we'd still be one starting pitcher short of 5. I would much rather go into the season with zero question marks in the starting rotation(we haven't done that in recent memory) and question marks at 2b and catcher. Those positions are MUCH MUCH MUCH(and by this I mean infinitely) easier to fill in June/July than looking around for a starting pitcher. Hold on to Contreras. He may give you a .500, 4.5 ERA year, but thats at least consistency and thats what we need in the starting rotation.

NardiWasHere
12-14-2004, 12:40 PM
If we even find someone who would want Contreras and offer a fair deal, we would still have a hole in our rotation.... i know he's older and a headcase, but i think if he could ever get it straight, we would be in good shape...

p.s. If Aj Pierzynski signed with the Sox, I would never stop throwing up in my mouth... I hate that guy...

p.s.s How much will Placido end up signing for? With the moeny saved in the Carlos deal, is it out of the question we sign Clement or Perez and Polanco?

Wealz
12-14-2004, 12:40 PM
What would trading Contreras accomplish? Even if we signed Perez, we'd still be one starting pitcher short of 5. I would much rather go into the season with zero question marks in the starting rotation(we haven't done that in recent memory) and question marks at 2b and catcher. Those positions are MUCH MUCH MUCH(and by this I mean infinitely) easier to fill in June/July than looking around for a starting pitcher. Hold on to Contreras. He may give you a .500, 4.5 ERA year, but thats at least consistency and thats what we need in the starting rotation.
Hermanson would be the 5th starter. It's kind of sad that Williams traded for Contreras with a price tag of $12M when his track record as a starter is as bad as it is.

eshunn2001
12-14-2004, 12:41 PM
Why doesn't Williams trade Contreras? Then they might have enough money for Perez, Polanco, and Pierzynski.
Then we still have no 5th starter. Polonco is nice, And F*** Pierzynski. But I see what you are saying.

MRKARNO
12-14-2004, 12:45 PM
Hermanson would be the 5th starter. It's kind of sad that Williams traded for Contreras with a price tag of $12M when his track record as a starter is as bad as it is.

What track record? The fact is Contreras still really is an unknown commodity. Look at his 2003 stats, they were pretty damn good. There is really no telling how he will perform next year.

Wealz
12-14-2004, 12:50 PM
What track record? The fact is Contreras still really is an unknown commodity. Look at his 2003 stats, they were pretty damn good. There is really no telling how he will perform next year.
What were his starts like in '03, and if there's no telling how he'll perform, why committ $12M to him?

Kogs35
12-14-2004, 12:54 PM
contreras has a no-trade clause. so no he wont be traded

Baby Fisk
12-14-2004, 12:54 PM
Hermanson would be the 5th starter. It's kind of sad that Williams traded for Contreras with a price tag of $12M when his track record as a starter is as bad as it is.Hermanson as 5th starter is unacceptable.

DaveIsHere
12-14-2004, 12:54 PM
we got money in the deal, we areNOT going to traade him only to still have a big hole. Sign Clement and we are set

MRKARNO
12-14-2004, 12:58 PM
What were his starts like in '03, and if there's no telling how he'll perform, why committ $12M to him?

The one month he was a full-time starter was September in 2003 and he pitched 35.2 innings that month (he had one non-start appearances) and carried a 1.51 ERA with 35 K's and a .95 WHIP and .173 BAA.

Why commit 12 mil to him? Well sometimes in order to get talent, you have to pay for it. Why is Jared Weaver asking for 10 million? Why could Mark Prior ask for 10 million? Because of potential and talent, that's why.

DaleJRFan
12-14-2004, 12:58 PM
If we even find someone who would want Contreras and offer a fair deal, we would still have a hole in our rotation.... i know he's older and a headcase, but i think if he could ever get it straight, we would be in good shape...

p.s. If Aj Pierzynski signed with the Sox, I would never stop throwing up in my mouth... I hate that guy...

p.s.s How much will Placido end up signing for? With the moeny saved in the Carlos deal, is it out of the question we sign Clement or Perez and Polanco?
Polanco made 4mil last year, and he is coming off of two back-to-back excellent years, so I wouldn't be surprised if his price stays in that ballpack. 4mil is A LOT for a second baseman, even with Polonco's #s. I'd rather See KW go back to Milwaukee and pick up Keith Ginter (wishful thinking)... But I do love the concept of Polanco/Uribe middle infield. Solid D, good speed...

I have heard nothing about Polanco FA signing rumors... .yet I have not checked the Phillies site... Any one fill us in here???

Wealz
12-14-2004, 01:00 PM
Hermanson as 5th starter is unacceptable.
Contreras slated as the #2 starter in this rotation (based on salary) is a way bigger problem than Hermanson would be as the #5.

MRKARNO
12-14-2004, 01:02 PM
Then they might have enough money for Perez, Polanco, and Pierzynski.

Pierzynski is overrated. He does not know how to draw a walk and he sucks at throwing guys out. He had a grand total of 19 walks last year. His percentage of throwing guys out was something like 17%.

Polanco is not that much better than Harris. He has far less speed than Harris and his OBP is identical. The only difference is the power stroke, which still means only 15 homers. Harris is younger and has a higher ceiling and not that much lower of a floor because of his ability to draw a walk.

They already have enough money for Perez.

Baby Fisk
12-14-2004, 01:04 PM
Contreras slated as the #2 starter in this rotation (based on salary) is a way bigger problem than Hermanson would be as the #5.Contreras is not our #2, problem solved. :smile:

Hermanson is for the bullpen. I refuse to acquiesce to the notion that Hermanson as #5 will suffice. The CLee-Podsednik-Vizcaino deal must be followed up with a SP acquisition or it is a failure.

MRKARNO
12-14-2004, 01:08 PM
Contreras slated as the #2 starter in this rotation (based on salary) is a way bigger problem than Hermanson would be as the #5.

Your logic is awful. There's no way that you can possibly argue that Buehrle and Garcia arent the one and the two on this team right now without sounding like an idiot. Tell the Rockies that Denny Neagle is their no. 1 because of what they're paying him or the Twins that Radke is better than Santana because he's making more.

Wealz
12-14-2004, 01:09 PM
The one month he was a full-time starter was September in 2003 and he pitched 35.2 innings that month (he had one non-start appearances) and carried a 1.51 ERA with 35 K's and a .95 WHIP and .173 BAA.

Why commit 12 mil to him? Well sometimes in order to get talent, you have to pay for it. Why is Jared Weaver asking for 10 million? Why could Mark Prior ask for 10 million? Because of potential and talent, that's why.
If Contreras is going to be that good, or anywhere close to that good, there's no need to acquire another starter.

Wealz
12-14-2004, 01:16 PM
Your logic is awful. There's no way that you can possibly argue that Buehrle and Garcia arent the one and the two on this team right now without sounding like an idiot. Tell the Rockies that Denny Neagle is their no. 1 because of what they're paying him or the Twins that Radke is better than Santana because he's making more.
If I'm paying my worst starter the 2nd biggest salary it's either I'm a really good GM because I've developed a couple of very good young pitchers, or I'm a bad judge of talent.

Dolanski
12-14-2004, 01:16 PM
Contreras, in the opinion of many, has some of the best stuff in the majors. His problems stem from lack of faith in his stuff. he gets too depended on this pitch or that and gets rocked. In any case, he has legit A-1 stuff, but he isn't always with it mentally.

The reason he was worth it was we dumped a fading Loiza for someone with nasty stuff. It was also rumored that the pressure of NY got to him, so pitching in a less stressful environment might be beneficial.

The other reason people are all about him besides his stuff was his performance during the 2003 stretch. His Sept line that year:
35.2 IN, 3W, 1.51 ERA, 35 SO, 7R, .173 BAA

No, he did not do that with us last sept, but it at least shows that he is capable of some nasty pitching when it counts. Imagine having pitching like that come this Sept assuming we still have a shot at the playoffs.

WhiteSoxFan84
12-14-2004, 01:19 PM
Here's an idea that everyone is overlooking;

Before you trade Jose Contreras, work out deals with Matt Clement and Odalis Perez. Give Clement $8 mill per for 2 or 3 years. Give Perez $6 mill per for 3 years.

Now, turn around and trade Jose Contreras to someone who desperately needs a pitcher (possibly Anaheim, Toronto, Los Angeles, St. Louis, Houston, etc.) and deal him for a solid catcher or a player that can fill any hole we have.

Remember that the Yankees gave us cash to cover some of Contreras' contract. However, Contreras still is owed $8 mill per, so we'd save $8 mill AND keep the cash the Yankees gave us last year (which was probably enough to cover his remaining salary last year).

After the Carlos Lee trade and this Contreras deal, we have freed up $13.5 mill (probably less with the guy we pick up for Contreras). Clement's $8 mill per + Perez's $6 mill per = $14 mill per. JR would be asked to dish out an extra $1-$2 mill. I doubt he would say no if he knew it would lead to the following rotation;

1) Buehrle
2) Garcia
3) Perez
4) Clement
5) Garland

Affordable, dependable, and quite possibly the best rotation in the AL?

Wealz
12-14-2004, 01:24 PM
Pierzynski is overrated. He does not know how to draw a walk and he sucks at throwing guys out. He had a grand total of 19 walks last year. His percentage of throwing guys out was something like 17%.

Polanco is not that much better than Harris. He has far less speed than Harris and his OBP is identical. The only difference is the power stroke, which still means only 15 homers. Harris is younger and has a higher ceiling and not that much lower of a floor because of his ability to draw a walk.

They already have enough money for Perez.
Polanco could play 2nd, 3rd, or in an emergency even SS. If Crede's still terible put Harris at 2nd and Polanco at 3rd. As far as Pierzynski goes ... Ben Davis is the starting catcher right now.

Tragg
12-14-2004, 01:31 PM
Polanco could play 2nd, 3rd, or in an emergency even SS. If Crede's still terible put Harris at 2nd and Polanco at 3rd. As far as Pierzynski goes ... Ben Davis is the starting catcher right now.
I hear where you're coming from, but throwing our money at 2 more pretty so-so players isn't the ticket.

It's too bad Williams couldn't have pulled Ginter into this deal - we could use another "versatile" infielder - certainly more than an "organizational minor leaguer".

SABRSox
12-14-2004, 01:37 PM
I have heard nothing about Polanco FA signing rumors... .yet I have not checked the Phillies site... Any one fill us in here???

The last rumor I heard was that the Cardinals would re-acquire Polanco if Renteria does not re-sign with them. I believe I saw that on ESPN, but I don't recall.

GM's generally don't dish out big bucks to 2B, unless you're Jeff Kent, but Polanco will probably get $5-6mil per for 3-4 years. That price is a little steep, but he would be an excellent fit for the White Sox. I just don't think Kenny is very high on him.

Lip Man 1
12-14-2004, 04:59 PM
Wealz says: "If Contreras is going to be that good, or anywhere close to that good, there's no need to acquire another starter."

Sure Jason Grilli, Arnie Munoz or any of a half dozen other stiffs can fill that #5 slot.


Hell if I were the Sox I'd get 2 more serviceable starters. Whoever isn't one of the big 5 goes into long relief and you have some insurance in case of injury, slumps, bad weather forcing double headers or a pitcher simply having a bad year.

Lip

SouthSide_HitMen
12-14-2004, 05:07 PM
Hermanson would be the 5th starter. It's kind of sad that Williams traded for Contreras with a price tag of $12M when his track record as a starter is as bad as it is.
At least with Loaiza we were off the hook after 2004. Even the Yankees look to dump salary. And when they do, they are happy to know there is someone in the league which makes up for the lack of money with an abundant lack of intelligence.

:KW

eshunn2001
12-14-2004, 05:58 PM
Are you guys kidding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Contreras is going to win 17-20 games next year. If not I will get his picture tatooed on my rear end.

oldcomiskey
12-14-2004, 06:27 PM
Hermanson as 5th starter is unacceptable.
as opposed to who? all the stiffs they been running out there for 2 years?