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View Full Version : Key is Vizcaino?


Palehose13
12-14-2004, 12:32 PM
Just heard an interview on B&B with a Milwaukee JS reporter. He felt that the key to the trade may be Vizcaino, who was set to be the Brewers closer after Kolb was dealt. He seemed to be more upset about losing Vizcaino than Podsednik.

It seems that some are stuck on Podsednik for Lee that they are forgetting that Vizcaino was also acquired in this deal. IMO, him and the acquisition of Hermanson gives the Sox a good looking bullpen.

The vibe I got from the interview was that the Brewers got a much needed power hitter, but now have created 2 more holes to fill (CF and closer). Sound familiar?

voodoochile
12-14-2004, 12:35 PM
It does free up the Sox to use Hermanson as a SP instead of a reliever - so they will have acquired their 5th starter for very little money.

Will it work? WHo knows? I still hope they get that other starter and leave Heramanson in what is now a very deep pen.

Palehose13
12-14-2004, 12:38 PM
It does free up the Sox to use Hermanson as a SP instead of a reliever - so they will have acquired their 5th starter for very little money.

Will it work? WHo knows? I still hope they get that other starter and leave Heramanson in what is now a very deep pen.
Me too, VC, me too.

The fact that KW has been talking to Clement's agent is a good sign. The fact that KW went to find JR before making this trade leads me to believe that he does plan on acquiring a FA pitcher. I don't believe that he ha to go to JR to make this trade...clearing salary. Hopefully, he asked for a couple mil to add after clearing the 5 or 6 by trading Lee.

DaveIsHere
12-14-2004, 12:41 PM
I hope we sign a SP, a deep pen will help you go a long way and it is actually a luxury

Rocky Soprano
12-14-2004, 12:43 PM
The more I think about it, the more I am liking this trade if we do end up with a Clement on our team.

We have become a faster team, a little bit better in defense, our bullpen is A LOT deeper, and our starting staff is now a whole lot better.

:bandance:

Palehose13
12-14-2004, 12:48 PM
The more I think about it, the more I am liking this trade if we do end up with a Clement on our team.

We have become a faster team, a little bit better in defense, our bullpen is A LOT deeper, and our starting staff is now a whole lot better.

:bandance:
If we sign another SP. I like the trade, but the acquistion of another SP is very important. But yeah, I like it. :smile:

Jurr
12-14-2004, 12:55 PM
EXACTLY. You now have a team that could conceivably grind out a 4-2 lead in a game or score however many they need within reason, and then have a good feeling about that game being over or close to it by the 7th. I remember when the Yankees used to be dominant, they didn't have a whole crew of mashers. They had Bernie Williams, Brosius, O'Neill, and Tino. They'd get that lead late and then send it over to the bullpen to close it out. Now, you're seeing Politte, Hermanson, and Vizcaino with that upper 90's stuff, then you throw in Marte with that crazy sweeping motion, and then in the ninth, after dealing with the power stuff, you've gotta slow that bat down 10-20 mph to hit Shingo. Tough!!

Baseball is not about having the best arms available, per se. You need to have enough quality arms with variety to confuse a hitter during the game. How hard is it to adjust to a reliever who throws 95mph sliders (like Marte and Vizcaino) after you've been chasing Contreras' forkball all night? That's a tough in-game adjustment for anybody. Then, you get ramped up to hit those guys and all of a sudden Shingo's throwing frisbees at the plate. Those kinds of changes to the hitter are what make a bullpen or rotation complete.

That's what has made Oakland so good. They throw Zito out there with a crazy Uncle Chuck, then they put in an Arthur Rhodes type later, only to be followed with a Chad Bradford who's scraping the mound with his knuckles.
Oh, and then the next day, you're seeing Rich Harden or Hudson's heat, which just makes your bat totally confused.

Why haven't the Cubs' pitchers been as successful as they could be? Let's see.....you have power with Prior, more power with Wood and Zambrano, then you have more power with Farnsworth and Hawkins! That's not too terrible an adjustment to make. Then Clement comes in with that crazy breaking stuff, and he looks pretty good because he changes things up a little. But, for the most part, when you play the Cubs, you know you're getting a lot of power stuff. With the talent in that rotation, they shouldn't ever be beat. But, because they have no flexibility, they lose.

The Sox, by adding Vizcaino and Hermanson, have gone a long way to give us one of the more solid bullpens around. Period. That is never to be understated when it comes to W's and L's.

Flight #24
12-14-2004, 01:05 PM
Me too, VC, me too.

The fact that KW has been talking to Clement's agent is a good sign. The fact that KW went to find JR before making this trade leads me to believe that he does plan on acquiring a FA pitcher. I don't believe that he ha to go to JR to make this trade...clearing salary. Hopefully, he asked for a couple mil to add after clearing the 5 or 6 by trading Lee.
1 - Budget was supposedly around 72mil (Foltman's #, supported by the pre-trade # of 69-70mil and KW's comments that they could only add a bench player)

2 - KW said that he's confident that JR would bump it a big higher if an opportunity presented itself to acquire an impact guy

3 - We now have $6mil (trade savings) + $2mil (budget room) + $2-3mil (JR bump) = $9-10mil available for 2005

4 - Matt Clement's rumored to be looking for a 3-yr / 9-10mil deal. Odalis Perez is rumored to be looking for a 3-yr / 7-8mil deal

1 + 2 + 3 + 4 = Sox made this move to target acquiring a solid SP. That, our now solid bullpen, and a more balanced lineup that still can hit 200HRs makes this team MUCH better.

Frater Perdurabo
12-14-2004, 01:07 PM
EXACTLY. You now have a team that could conceivably grind out a 4-2 lead in a game or score however many they need within reason, and then have a good feeling about that game being over or close to it by the 7th. I remember when the Yankees used to be dominant, they didn't have a whole crew of mashers. They had Bernie Williams, Brosius, O'Neill, and Tino. They'd get that lead late and then send it over to the bullpen to close it out. Now, you're seeing Politte, Hermanson, and Vizcaino with that upper 90's stuff, then you throw in Marte with that crazy sweeping motion, and then in the ninth, after dealing with the power stuff, you've gotta slow that bat down 10-20 mph to hit Shingo. Tough!!

Baseball is not about having the best arms available, per se. You need to have enough quality arms with variety to confuse a hitter during the game. How hard is it to adjust to a reliever who throws 95mph sliders (like Marte and Vizcaino) after you've been chasing Contreras' forkball all night? That's a tough in-game adjustment for anybody. Then, you get ramped up to hit those guys and all of a sudden Shingo's throwing frisbees at the plate. Those kinds of changes to the hitter are what make a bullpen or rotation complete.

The Sox, by adding Vizcaino and Hermanson, have gone a long way to give us one of the more solid bullpens around. Period. That is never to be understated when it comes to W's and L's.

Excellent post. If the Sox sign Clement or Perez, they will have a dominant pitching staff. Also, even if their offense is less than what they want, if they are within striking distance of division lead in July they can trade for a bat. Sluggers routinely are available at the trade dealine. It's much harder to find a good pitcher than a slugger mid-season. Besides, I have a hunch that Crazy Carl will produce well in his contract year and that Crede will perform surprisingly well.

Tragg
12-14-2004, 01:17 PM
4 - Matt Clement's rumored to be looking for a 3-yr / 9-10mil deal. Odalis Perez is rumored to be looking for a 3-yr / 7-8mil deal

Those numbers are absolutely incredible for that level of pitcher.

I hope we have the $13 mill per when MB's time comes

And Freddy;s probably saying "what the hell have I done signing so early"

Rocky Soprano
12-14-2004, 01:19 PM
Jurr,

Just had to say that I love your sig. I have tons of respect for KW! He doesnt sit on his hands, he does the best with what he has. :gulp:

tanko
12-14-2004, 01:27 PM
From a Milwaukee standpoint they should have signed J.D.Drew and kept Pods and Viz.

MRKARNO
12-14-2004, 01:53 PM
If we sign Clement or Perez, then the net effect of this trade is definitely positive. If we don't, it's negative. Our pen is now the best it's been since 2000 and I'm convinced that will help us a lot in the long run. The best teams all have good bullpens and pens seperate the contenders from the pretenders. The Rangers got to where they were last year solely because of their bullpen in my opinion. A bullpen that you can trust will get 12 outs with a 2-3 run lead is a very important thing and we have that now. In addition, Podsednik, if he reverts to posting a .370 OBP, which is more likely than most here thing IMO because of how well he hit on the road with Milwaukee and Vizcaino is the pitcher that everyone says he is and we sign Clement and Perez, we'll be far ahead in this deal. Who is to say that Lee is necessarily going to keep it up in Miller Park in a much worse lineup? I'm not sure that he will, though it's very likely.

NonetheLoaiza
12-14-2004, 02:37 PM
Jurr, I couldnt agree more with your sig.

Flight #24
12-14-2004, 02:40 PM
Those numbers are absolutely incredible for that level of pitcher.

I hope we have the $13 mill per when MB's time comes

And Freddy;s probably saying "what the hell have I done signing so early"
I agree, but that's where the market's at - thanks significantly to the Mets.

MB's an FA after 2006, right? By then hopefully the payroll is significantly higher than it is today based on the team getting a solid #3 SP and being more consistent and contending/making the playoffs.

ChiSoxRowand
12-14-2004, 04:44 PM
I was suprised Milwaukee traded Vizcaino after trading Kolb.

Banix12
12-14-2004, 11:23 PM
I was kinda surprised Vizcaino was in the deal on both sides. Brewers needed him as a closer and the Sox didn't exactly have a bad need for a reliever. Though I admit I am happy about the depth. I've just been thinking, if the sox do sign a FA pitcher, that's 12 pitchers including 5 righties in the pen. I can't think the sox would go into the season carrying 12 pitchers, so something's gotta give. Aquiring Vizcaino kind of makes Politte's job as the pen's hard throwing right hander a bit redundant, and they still have Adkins around who showed some pop on the fastball last year. I gotta think another trade is coming. If not, Hermanson to the rotation would probably be KW's backup plan if nothing comes to fruition.

SouthSide_HitMen
12-14-2004, 11:29 PM
Just heard an interview on B&B with a Milwaukee JS reporter. He felt that the key to the trade may be Vizcaino, who was set to be the Brewers closer after Kolb was dealt. He seemed to be more upset about losing Vizcaino than Podsednik.

It seems that some are stuck on Podsednik for Lee that they are forgetting that Vizcaino was also acquired in this deal. IMO, him and the acquisition of Hermanson gives the Sox a good looking bullpen.

The vibe I got from the interview was that the Brewers got a much needed power hitter, but now have created 2 more holes to fill (CF and closer). Sound familiar?
That is because Podsednik is the Deluxe version of the equally worthless Alex Sanchez. This was nothing but a salary dump pure and simple. Too bad it wasn't for one of the unproductive salaries acquired by Kenny Williams in 2004 for 2005 and beyond (Everett, Contreras).

I'll buy four season tickets for needy children for the hometown of any ballclub who takes Everett, Contreras and Kenny Williams for a bobble head doll of their choice.

MeanFish
12-14-2004, 11:48 PM
Alex Sanchez hit .322 last year...

MRKARNO
12-14-2004, 11:49 PM
Alex Sanchez hit .322 last year...
But he had 7 walks and 14 XBHs.....

AMestan
12-15-2004, 12:08 AM
Just heard an interview on B&B with a Milwaukee JS reporter. He felt that the key to the trade may be Vizcaino, who was set to be the Brewers closer after Kolb was dealt. He seemed to be more upset about losing Vizcaino than Podsednik.

It seems that some are stuck on Podsednik for Lee that they are forgetting that Vizcaino was also acquired in this deal. IMO, him and the acquisition of Hermanson gives the Sox a good looking bullpen.

The vibe I got from the interview was that the Brewers got a much needed power hitter, but now have created 2 more holes to fill (CF and closer). Sound familiar?
Palehose---

Had a good time at SJC.. Don't really miss Renesselaer... I haven't seen that emblem in a long time. Good post.

santo=dorf
12-15-2004, 12:10 AM
But he had 7 walks and 14 XBHs.....
and he may get non-tendered. He had a ridiculous number of infield singles before he got hurt. I'd take him over Timo.

illinibk
12-15-2004, 12:20 AM
But he had 7 walks and 14 XBHs.....
not to mention he was a cancer when he was with milwaukee