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View Full Version : What about starting Hermanson - and...


jabrch
12-14-2004, 12:16 AM
using the money that we have available to try to get Adrian Beltre? Or what about using it to get Renteria?

santo=dorf
12-14-2004, 12:20 AM
Seattle, Detroit, Boston, and and St. Louis are all offering big bucks for Renteria. Boras wants to get Beltre a 7/90 deal (:o: :angry: ) and he's a one year wonder.

Please sign Odalis.

:reinsy
"Sorry. I'm sleeping on top of the pile of cash we saved tonight."

OEO Magglio
12-14-2004, 12:21 AM
using the money that we have available to try to get Adrian Beltre? Or what about using it to get Renteria?
NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Get Clement and keep hermy and vizcaino in the pen. Jab, think how good our pitching staff becomes if we can add Clement or Odalis, including the bullpen that staff is one of the best in the majors. Contrary to popular belief the offense as it's currently set isn't that bad and if the sox have a pitching staff like that, it could be a special season.

Jjav829
12-14-2004, 12:21 AM
Nah, get a starting pitcher. That money isn't enough to get us Beltre, and Renteria will be overpayed. We need another pitcher badly.

soltrain21
12-14-2004, 12:26 AM
Sign us a starter and either Larkin or Cairo.

CHIsoxNation
12-14-2004, 12:56 AM
I agree, our bullpen is probably considered right now one of the best in the league and the acquisitions made helped it out a lot. But like Kenny said at the end of the season, starting pitching is the #1 priority and I totally agree. Adding someone with Clemente's talent would not only make us probably the best team (on paper) in the Central but probably one of the better all around teams in the AL. (hmmmm...hopefully I'm not getting too ahead of myself)

OurBitchinMinny
12-14-2004, 01:20 AM
I agree, our bullpen is probably considered right now one of the best in the league and the acquisitions made helped it out a lot. But like Kenny said at the end of the season, starting pitching is the #1 priority and I totally agree. Adding someone with Clemente's talent would not only make us probably the best team (on paper) in the Central but probably one of the better all around teams in the AL. (hmmmm...hopefully I'm not getting too ahead of myself)
We've been the best team on paper in the AL central for the last 5 years and have one it once. But there is no reason if clement or perez is signed that they cant win it. They should. As much as I miss lee, it will be an ok trade if they sign one of those two guys. I hate that they had to trade lee because he will become an all star, but Ill reserve judgement. On paper this is just a sickening trade

MUsoxfan
12-14-2004, 01:22 AM
The idea of using Hermanson as an SP is laughable. He's very capable of doing the task he's been used to....setup

OurBitchinMinny
12-14-2004, 01:33 AM
using the money that we have available to try to get Adrian Beltre? Or what about using it to get Renteria?
If that were to happen, id look to grilli or schoenweis before hermanson as a starter. Hermanson hasnt started in a while, and who knows, maybe schoenweis' collapse was due to an injury and not just his suckiness. He was their best pitcher the first two months, dont forget that

Navaro's Talent
12-14-2004, 01:33 AM
The Sox' bullpen is about as stellar as any one's for next season. With Marte, Takatsu, Vizcaino, Hermanson and a more mature Cotts in the pen, this team doesn't have to much to worry about in this area. The Sox need to focus on the starting rotation. I want either Clement or Milton, but I'll settle for Perez. Adding one of those guys makes this pitching staff pretty scary, in my honest opinion. This is something that the Sox haven't been able to say in a long time.

Granted, the lineup has been hurt because of the revamping of the pitching staff, but I think it's worth it because the Sox play at The Cell. Hitters don't necessarily have to be the most powerful to hit homeruns there. Even with a deflated offense, the team should be able to hit a lot of homeruns. Just look at what the team did last year with Frank and Magglio hurt. They broke the team home run record. So even with Magglio gone, the team has proven that they can still hit homeruns anyway. That's what makes acquiring good pitching so necessary. Guys like Rowand and Crede can hold their own when it comes to homeruns, but you have to remember that visiting teams are just as good at hitting homeruns at The Cell. If the Sox can get one more good starter, the team may be able to drastically drop the number of homeruns given up at The Launching Pad.

cbrownson13
12-14-2004, 01:37 AM
I'd really like if we were able to sign a pitcher and get Placido Polanco to fill in at second.

Navaro's Talent
12-14-2004, 01:37 AM
If that were to happen, id look to grilli or schoenweis before hermanson as a starter. Hermanson hasnt started in a while, and who knows, maybe schoenweis' collapse was due to an injury and not just his suckiness. He was their best pitcher the first two months, dont forget that
I certainly haven't forgotten. Schoenweis was stellar before his arm went out on him. If he can have a strong, consistent year as the number five starter, I wouldn't mind having him. It would certainly be cheap. The only major concerns are: Can he put together a strong, consistent year and will his arm stay strong throughout the season?

Rocklive99
12-14-2004, 01:38 AM
The Beltre type deals are the ones that get GMs fired

Jjav829
12-14-2004, 01:58 AM
I'd really like if we were able to sign a pitcher and get Placido Polanco to fill in at second.I'd like that too. Slot him 2nd in the order, drop Rowand to 6th and Uribe to 7th and this lineup looks much better. I think we need a new 2nd baseman. Ideally, Willie learns some stuff from Raines and Podsednik, becomes a good base stealer, and the Podsednik/Harris combo gives us a Pierre/Castillo like effect. But I would like to see a new 2nd baseman. Polanco may get too pricey. Cairo might be worth a shot if he's cheap enough. I really wish we could have received Ginter in the deal as well. He'd make for nice competition for Willie at 2nd, and give us a good utility infielder. As of right now, we don't really have a backup for Crede at 3rd. I suppose Valdez is a favorite to land that utility spot right now, and Uribe could shift to 3rd when needed. But Ginter would have been nice.

ilsox7
12-14-2004, 02:04 AM
I'd like that too. Slot him 2nd in the order, drop Rowand to 6th and Uribe to 7th and this lineup looks much better. I think we need a new 2nd baseman. Ideally, Willie learns some stuff from Raines and Podsednik, becomes a good base stealer, and the Podsednik/Harris combo gives us a Pierre/Castillo like effect. But I would like to see a new 2nd baseman. Polanco may get too pricey. Cairo might be worth a shot if he's cheap enough. I really wish we could have received Ginter in the deal as well. He'd make for nice competition for Willie at 2nd, and give us a good utility infielder. As of right now, we don't really have a backup for Crede at 3rd. I suppose Valdez is a favorite to land that utility spot right now, and Uribe could shift to 3rd when needed. But Ginter would have been nice.
I think for now our best hope is that we bat Willie 9th and hope that Scott P. is solid. This will allow Willie to see more fastballs and would provde the "lead off hitter at the top and bottom of the line-up" affect. If they actually work out, could you imagine the havoc Willie and Scott P. would have on an opposing pitcher?

OurBitchinMinny
12-14-2004, 02:24 AM
I think for now our best hope is that we bat Willie 9th and hope that Scott P. is solid. This will allow Willie to see more fastballs and would provde the "lead off hitter at the top and bottom of the line-up" affect. If they actually work out, could you imagine the havoc Willie and Scott P. would have on an opposing pitcher?
willie has to get on base first, something he had a great deal of trouble with last year

MUsoxfan
12-14-2004, 04:30 AM
willie has to get on base first, something he had a great deal of trouble with last year

I'm truly hoping Willie can use his speed as a threat. Lately, he's been no better than Frank....a base to base runner

Mohoney
12-14-2004, 04:35 AM
If Odalis Perez and a journeyman type like Aaron Sele can both be signed within the framework of the money saved in the trade, I say we sign them and try to trade Garland to the Orioles for Brian Roberts.

Think about the potential of Podsednik at the top and Roberts batting 2nd.

Think of Jon Garland being gone.

OEO Magglio
12-14-2004, 07:32 AM
The Sox' bullpen is about as stellar as any one's for next season. With Marte, Takatsu, Vizcaino, Hermanson and a more mature Cotts in the pen, this team doesn't have to much to worry about in this area. The Sox need to focus on the starting rotation. I want either Clement or Milton, but I'll settle for Perez. Adding one of those guys makes this pitching staff pretty scary, in my honest opinion. This is something that the Sox haven't been able to say in a long time.

Granted, the lineup has been hurt because of the revamping of the pitching staff, but I think it's worth it because the Sox play at The Cell. Hitters don't necessarily have to be the most powerful to hit homeruns there. Even with a deflated offense, the team should be able to hit a lot of homeruns. Just look at what the team did last year with Frank and Magglio hurt. They broke the team home run record. So even with Magglio gone, the team has proven that they can still hit homeruns anyway. That's what makes acquiring good pitching so necessary. Guys like Rowand and Crede can hold their own when it comes to homeruns, but you have to remember that visiting teams are just as good at hitting homeruns at The Cell. If the Sox can get one more good starter, the team may be able to drastically drop the number of homeruns given up at The Launching Pad.

Milton blows his era would be near 6 here.

OEO Magglio
12-14-2004, 07:36 AM
willie has to get on base first, something he had a great deal of trouble with last year
Not true. Willie had a .343 on base percentage last year, while not great I wouldn't say he had trouble getting on base. Now because we got our leadoff hitter I would love to let Willie play 2b and bat 9th, mostly because of his defensive abilities and the fact that him and Juan would be maybe the best double play combo in baseball. However if the sox could get Polanco they have to do it, we'd be able to slide him in right into the 2 hole behind spod. I think a more likely scenario is to find a platoon partner like Miguel Cairo for Willie.

Tragg
12-14-2004, 07:45 AM
willie has to get on base first, something he had a great deal of trouble with last yearNot nearly as much trouble as our brand-spanking new lead-off hitter did last year.

jabrch
12-14-2004, 08:18 AM
The idea of using Hermanson as an SP is laughable. He's very capable of doing the task he's been used to....setup


Used to because what? He was a starter most of last year, and a closer for the final 1/3 of the season. Of his 7 full seasons, he started 6 of them and was only a setup guy in about 1 of them. So why is he used to being a setup guy and not a starter?

gosox41
12-14-2004, 08:25 AM
Used to because what? He was a starter most of last year, and a closer for the final 1/3 of the season. Of his 7 full seasons, he started 6 of them and was only a setup guy in about 1 of them. So why is he used to being a setup guy and not a starter?

I don't know what he's used to, but last season he had much more success as a reliever then a starter.



Bob

MRKARNO
12-14-2004, 09:15 AM
I would much rather see the money go to Clement/Perez than Polanco. Harris's OBP last year was within a few points of Placido's. Obviously Polanco had more power, but Willie might be able to get up to about 5-10 home runs and I think he can post an OBP up around .360, which would put him in the upper tier of 2nd basemen. Only five fulltime second basemen have OBPs of higher than .360. Willie has been getting better at drawing walks and I think his average might go up a bit as well. I dont think having Harris at second will be as bad as many here say. There simply arent a lot of good offensive second basemen.

Let's use the money for Clement/Odalis.

Wealz
12-14-2004, 09:19 AM
Nah, get a starting pitcher. That money isn't enough to get us Beltre, and Renteria will be overpayed. We need another pitcher badly.
How much more of the team's resources are going to be put to the starting rotation?

If Williams believes in Contreras he doesn't need to go out and get another starter. If he doesn't believe in him why is he paying him $12M?

MushMouth
12-14-2004, 09:22 AM
Sign us a starter and either Larkin or Cairo.


If we can get a starter FIRST, Larkin would be a quality guy to have. Still a great fielder, proven vet with a ring and still puts up decent offensive numbers.

Jjav829
12-14-2004, 09:23 AM
How much more of the team's resources are going to be put to the starting rotation?

If Williams believes in Contreras he doesn't need to go out and get another starter. If he doesn't believe in him why is he paying him $12M?
Do you feel confident in this rotation as it stands right now?

Wealz
12-14-2004, 09:34 AM
Do you feel confident in this rotation as it stands right now?
Williams believes Contreras will be a top-of-this-rotation starter. There is no point to waste resources on a 5th starter when one can be found internally.

mjharrison72
12-14-2004, 09:36 AM
Sign us a starter and either Larkin or Cairo.Or Placido Polanco... where did all the speculation about him go? he can play 2B OR 3B!

kittle42
12-14-2004, 09:44 AM
Apparently, I am the only one who thinks the team we have right now is the one we're getting in April.

Jjav829
12-14-2004, 09:45 AM
Williams believes Contreras will be a top-of-this-rotation starter. There is no point to waste resources on a 5th starter when one can be found internally.
What's wrong with having 5 guaranteed good starters? I'd rather have 5 solid starters than go with some crappy pitcher and justify starting him by saying he's our #5.

nasox
12-14-2004, 09:47 AM
Apparently, I am the only one who thinks the team we have right now is the one we're getting in April.

We have a long way to go to pick up players and make deals. Almost 5 months. That's a long time. Plus, we have until July 31 to finalize the team. You gotta remember that a team is never set until the deadline.

Wealz
12-14-2004, 09:55 AM
What's wrong with having 5 guaranteed good starters? I'd rather have 5 solid starters than go with some crappy pitcher and justify starting him by saying he's our #5.
What about the crappy catcher, second baseman, third baseman, and left fielder that will be playing every day, not just once every five days?

Jjav829
12-14-2004, 10:04 AM
What about the crappy catcher, second baseman, third baseman, and left fielder that will be playing every day, not just once every five days?
Fair point, though I think the crappy left fielder and crappy third baseman will have better seasons. I would still prefer to have 5 established starters.

Wealz
12-14-2004, 10:18 AM
Fair point, though I think the crappy left fielder and crappy third baseman will have better seasons. I would still prefer to have 5 established starters.
Are you counting Contreras? :smile:

voodoochile
12-14-2004, 10:25 AM
Williams believes Contreras will be a top-of-this-rotation starter. There is no point to waste resources on a 5th starter when one can be found internally.
One can?

Like last year?

Like the year before that?

Oh no... I was mistaken, it was the year before that they had one...

um... no... wait a minute... it will come to me...:rolleyes:

Get another starting pitcher. I don't care if it is some 38 YO guy who signs an incentive laden 2 year deal so long as they are experienced and can be counted on to hold their ERA under 5.0 and hopefully closer to 4.5.

That of course would be the minimum. Preferably the team will sign a genuine #3 or higher pitcher, but that looks less and less likely.

Wealz
12-14-2004, 10:29 AM
One can?

Like last year?

Like the year before that?

Oh no... I was mistaken, it was the year before that they had one...

um... no... wait a minute... it will come to me...:rolleyes:

Get another starting pitcher. I don't care if it is some 38 YO guy who signs an incentive laden 2 year deal so long as they are experienced and can be counted on to hold their ERA under 5.0 and hopefully closer to 4.5.

That of course would be the minimum. Preferably the team will sign a genuine #3 or higher pitcher, but that looks less and less likely.
Dustin Hermanson fits your 5th starter definition.

voodoochile
12-14-2004, 10:29 AM
Fair point, though I think the crappy left fielder and crappy third baseman will have better seasons. I would still prefer to have 5 established starters.
Agreed and there is WAY more depth at the OF position currently than there is at SP.

Like it or not, they aren't going to dump Crede this season. He's the one the team will count on.

Catcher could use some work, but who's out there in the Sox price range who could seriously make an impact there?

2B is the only position I expect they might make a move on and I doubt it. I think KW likes Harris and an argument CAN be made that he deserves a shot. Of course I would prefer they had a backup plan in case Willie doesn't step up, but I'd still prefer another starter first.

voodoochile
12-14-2004, 10:32 AM
Dustin Hermanson fits your 5th starter definition.
All the more reason to go get someone better. Then the Sox have 6 potential starters and no matter what should be covered. The 6th guy can work out of the pen - like Hermanson.

Wealz
12-14-2004, 10:36 AM
All the more reason to go get someone better. Then the Sox have 6 potential starters and no matter what should be covered. The 6th guy can work out of the pen - like Hermanson.
At what expense, having 4 automatic outs in the lineup? No thanks.